Let’s be honest here: this map is being used in a misleading way.
The blue zones shown are FIRs (Flight Information Regions). FIR responsibility is assigned by ICAO only for civil air traffic services, not sovereignty and not military control. A country managing a FIR does not gain ownership of that airspace.
In fact, half of the Aegean airspace is international airspace, meaning it belongs to no country.The Athens FIR was assigned in 1952 purely for civil aviation coordination, which is why Greece provides air traffic services there.But presenting it as if Greece somehow controls neighboring countries’ airspace is simply wrong. FIR ≠ sovereignty.There is also another paradox people conveniently ignore: Greece claims 10 nautical miles of national airspace while its territorial waters are only 6 nautical miles. According to international law, airspace should correspond to territorial waters.This extra 4-mile belt is one of the core disputes in the Aegean, and Turkey has rejected it for decades. So before presenting maps like this as if they show “Greek control of the region,” people should ask a basic question:Are we talking about air traffic administration, or sovereignty? Because those are two completely different things.
It's not just about missiles. Let's assume someone hijacks a civilian airplane above Albania and they are crashing it at Tirana. Greek planes will have to shoot it down.
Use your head man. Those passengers are already dead if the plane crashes. Why kill even more people by crashing it in a city?
Or why do you think fighter jets follow civilian airplanes that aren't responding?
Your brain has melted from watching too many American movies. Why would anyone hijack a plane? Even if they did, where in Albania could they crash it to cause more damage? Another question: why would hijackers kill themselves?
If they want to cause damage somewhere, they can silently go there and simply plant a bomb.
Your brain is very smooth isn't it? First of all, it doesn't have to be hijackers, as a plane could stop responding due to various situations, such as a loss of oxygen inside the cabin. This is exactly what happened in Helios Airway Flight 522 that crashed in Greece. Guess what, fighter jets were deployed to monitor it with permission to shoot it down if deemed necessary.
Secondly, just because something is unlikely to happen, doesn't mean countries to make contingencies for it. Maybe the fact that it doesn't happen is precisely because countries prepare for it.
Is there a second example besides 9/11? No. It's absurd because it's already been proven to be a fabrication. There have been [20 plane hijackings](https://www.hvtd.org/?p=451) in Türkiye history, and in all of them, the plane had to land somewhere, and the hijackers surrendered. Nobody wants to kill themselves, and even if they did, it's almost impossible to do it by plane. If you shoot down the plane, you lose all the passengers; if you wait, the plane will eventually have to land.
It's rare but countries still prepare for it like I said. There's even legislation for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_hijacking#Legislation_for_downing_hijacked_aircraft
I don't know what you're trying to argue. If your argument is that Greek patrolling of Albania's airspace is unnecessary, that's your opinion. But all countries prepare for such eventualities.
balkans would be the last place in the world iran would be interested in attacking can't say the same for israel since they seem to think everything was promised to em 2000 years ago
I am just confused... what iran even gains from striking turkey??
It's like they're running around like headless chickens or hazballah has some beef with the turks (last part is sarcasm)
America killed their supreme leader they are angry Iran was for a while effectively an head less state until his son who lost his daughter wife and obvi his dad in the same airstrike so they are bombing Amercan bases in turkeye and Arab states in retaliation
Cyprus was a Turkish island for like hundreds of years before we gave it to the British for their help against Russia. Just because someone lived there 2k years ago doesn't make it theirs.
Russia would definitely attack Bulgaria for regime change in 10 years. Balkans can easily switch sides and should stay under Nato command if we don't want another world war.
Lmao are you fucking serious? We literally had a fucking ghost (out of control) Tupolev Tu-141 reconnaissance drone from Ukraine crash in the middle of fucking Zagreb, just a hundred meters from a student dormitory in 2022.
It was literally a miracle among miracles that nobody was hurt or killed.
Yeah. Turkey is closer to Iran and they are doing most of interceptions (missiles and other threats). For some reason they have been colored white instead of grey like the rest of NATO countries. And people in this comments section are having some group psychosis pretending greece is doing some heavy lifting and ignoring the existence of Turkey alltogether. GG boiz, don't cry when all politicians are "the same", your brainless way of being is why problems never end.
Bulgarian here:
1. Thanks. It's nice to know there is a neighbor we can count on in need.
2. This is nonetheless embarrassing. We have no military left whatsoever. All of our skill-points are stuffed into the Gendarmerie and police, whose only job is to protect the politicians and the existing corrupt comprador system from the ordinary people. Our politicians are such sellout cucks, that they gifted all of our weapons to Ukraine, without telling anybody the truth and consulting us, they started buying expensive and retro US weaponry that is arguably event worse than the old Soviet one we gave to Ukraine. They drag us in every shit they can, every time our masters from Washington or Brussels whistle. Sometimes they don't even have to ask us anything, our compradors are in a doggy position with a bent back and lubed-up, without even being asked. None of them has a thought of concern for the well-being of the populace or the state. Their job is to steal, execute orders and then go to live with their money on an pacific island or in Western Europe. They are sacrificing the everyday people for their financial well-being and security. And this is discussing. We had no business helping the hunta in Kiev with the war, we had no business helping with the strikes against Iran. I do not care if Putin or Khamenei drink baby blood, that does not concern Bulgaria. However the fact that western politicians and billionaires do it, concerns us more.
It's so true, I am an expat in Bulgaria and I feel that the politicians are scamming Bulgarian people. They are working hard just to be backstabbed. You can see the corruption in every corner.
Well, you have a pair of good eyes on your head then. I am sorry for the current state of Bulgaria. I hope that you see our potential. Often expats in Bulgaria are more objective and optimistic about our country than we are. Where are you from btw?
I don‘t know what to do man. I‘m a Bulgarian who grew up in Germany, always having dreamt of returning to Bulgaria, my country, my people, no matter how poor or damaged. I fulfilled this dream about 4 years ago but damn what the actual hell did I move to. These people sell another organ of their government every year and call it progress. They love it when the ones that make Bulgaria weak, make them even weaker, and wave it in their face, and the Bulgarian applauds and jumps in joy. Makes me just want to return to Germany and forget my heritage.
Good. I appreciate out Southern neighbours. However, what did we pay 5 billion $ for. We already have 8 f-16b70 from the first deal and 8 on the way from the second one. One training exercise (when absolutely necessary) is not what my taxes should be paying for. Bulgaria already lost one pilot a few years back due to the extremely low training hours they get. We didn't spend all that money for museum pieces.
5 billion?? Somebody ripped you off. We paid $1.3 billion for 12 Rafales. Training, weapons and simulators included.
Slovakia paid $1.8 billion for 14 F-16s block 70/72 - same as yours.
It's 2.5 billion for 8 F-16 Block 70 with training and maintainance. The price is probably higher because: first time buyers and a lot of support infrastructure to be set up. The deal was repeated, hence 5 bln.
Knowing how the US turned out, I wish we had gone with the Grippen.
Yeah, maybe it's about infrastructure, we already had long range American radars and stuff like that...but that's still a damn spicy price.
Gripens are cool and cheap but only if you were offered the Gripen E. We weren't. The Swedes showed up at our tender with the old Gripen C/D, which can't even be upgraded any longer, so they were immediately eliminated as an option.
Generals weren't really part of the decision making process. I guess the biggest corruption happened with the support factories that will produce parts and etc. Also, we kind of tried to pirate the tech, which ended up bricking one of the planes and it had to go back to the USA to get fixed. No wonder the Americans got big mad and closed Zamunda and Arena.
To clarify, this is an unconfirmed conspiracy theory. The official version is thag the plane displayed an error during the receiving technical inspection, which is why it was recalled for maintenance.
If i understand correctly...you just want to not include islands in the separation of exclusive zones because ...it suits you best to overlook hundreds of Islands?
What an attitude man.
I don’t care about agean islands but with just a little chunk of rock called Meis you guys want to claim all of our eastern Mediterranean maritime zone with Cyprus.
Its just bullshiting like your bullshiting with the casus belli etc
Kastelorizo has exclusive zone, not all that thing of course, but when you start saying stupid things like "half the Aegean is our and but we will let you have your enclosed islands there" what are our stupid people gonna say? Nothing?
When geography doesn't suit you....you just create some new rules man.
We have to be adults and solve our problems, from my point of view you think of yourself as an empire that other should fear. Thats not working kardas.
Take care!
You just make up things when you hear some ultranationalist people they don't represent nor my country nor my people .We don't have any issue with agean sea maritime boundaries there is only Kardak issue which is frozen for more then 20 years. We only have issue with eastern mediterranean don't expect us to accept the map above as We have one of the biggest shore in the mediterranean.
And there are islands facing these shores that you decided have less effect on maritime topics because...no reason, just what suits you.
Regarding Imia, congrats to your guys that managed to ridicule our then leaders by accepting the grey status quo. Lets swap positions for a moment, imagine Turkish politicians accepting grey zone on Imvros, i guess you would have hanged them. Our leadership was light-hearted, thank god they didn't lose Ithaca.
Anyway, take care mate.
Dude he's right. That's not how your airspace actually looks like. It's like this only from your country's PoV and I'm not even trying to joke or mock you guys. It literally is like that. No country recognizes this weird conical shape airspace for whatever reason your country claimed over islands. That's how you get these absurd 6272647392862 numbers of airspace violations per year and no one gives a shit.
The 10m airspace its not out of nowhere, it was declared on 30s, Turkey didn't object until 1974. The only reason you violate it, its because you try to bully Greece to not claim 12nm on water. See how easily its solved? If we have 12nm here, 6nm there, 3nm on our facing land (varying conditions depending on geography)etc, the airspace will follow, you just dont want a solution.
Turkey is a bad neighbour mate. Always trying to provoke. Thats not how so solve problems.
When I looked up the whole airspace violations back then, nowhere at all I have ever seen 6nm line violation being explicitly mentioned. Not even Greek air command issues such specific things. Also just because Greece considered XYZ and Turkey didn't say anything until 30 years later doesn't mean Greece is right lol. It's just for obvious political reasons Greece keeps calling out Turkey when literally every single goddamn air force will do the same violations just because only Greece claims such absurd airspace.
It's like, imagine your neighbor installed a random door in the middle of the sidewalk next to their house and claims the sidewalk is their property. Every single soul has to open the door and pass through but unfortunately your route home passes through that sidewalk and for whatever reason this neighbor only calls you out for "violating her property".
It's not wrong to call your own country's logical fallacies mate. It's not some sort of grave patriotic issue, it's just a matter of government perspective and it's obviously illogical.
You are a little bit uninformed and very oversimplifying.
Turkish fighters and drones fly even over greek land. They fly over Agathonisi, farmakonisi, Oinouses. Some years ago they even flew above Thrace.
You dont have a clue what you are talking about.
Funny timing, i just read Turkey complained 3 days ago to Iran for violation of its air space. So according to Turkey its bad when someone violates you, its ok if you do it to someone else. Noted.
Its not logical fallacies, its something solvable in 20' if adults enter the room. I told you before, somewhere would be 3nm, somewhere 6, 10, 12 etc. Turkey is blocking the solution by adding irrelevant matters to the discussion.
>Iran for violation
Iran launched a fucking Ballistic missile mate. I don't think two are even remotely the same lmao. What kind of hyperbole is that?
>Its not logical fallacies, its something solvable in 20' if adults enter the room.
We would've already colonized Mars and would've been halfway to the next solar system if this is how we ran the world. But alas reality is crap.
Oooh hyperbole...Say that to the victims of dogfights on both sides of Aegean.
Plus that most of the times the fighters have weapons on them, they don't fly for pleasure.
I'm sorry WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? Jesus Christ almighty give this man some sense because I sure can't.
What victims? Right because let's see sending a radar lock is equal to sending a ballistic missile which has a warhead and really is there to just explode on impact....right they are the same...riiiiiight.
only cause 🏝️ small [meis island](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kastellorizo,+Greece/) 🇹🇷 is "yours" ✍🏻 dont mean you own the whole sea 🐬 see mavi vatan, malakas
Mavi Vatan is officially over with Achilles Shield actively being built while we protect from Bulgaria to Cyprus and the Aegean has the most densely packed radar coverage in the world. Like we did with your deal with Libia, wiped our buttocks.
This has nothing to do with claiming airspace.
This is a map showing what areas the Greek force in cooperation to NATO and European allies is protecting
No, no. It has nothing to do with us wanting to give the entire Mediterranean to Greece and sever Türkiye's maritime ties, or with us wanting a more equitable sharing of the Aegean Sea between 90 million Turks and 10 million Greeks. The only reason we have a problem with that is because we are utterly shitty assholes.
thankfully international laws are biased myths that never gets enforced at all. UN will just send an email saying ''please stop'' to people actively comitting genocide for gold in Sudan. don't fool yourself by actually believing international law exists in real life, it's proven by countless incidents that it's just fiction on paper and countries only care about it when it favors their political goals.
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How do you manage to keep yourself this ignorant? Then be arrogant enough to lecture others?
Oh nvm, you are a fr\*nch. We have a saying, "being Fr\*nch to a situation." We use it when someone doesn't have a clue about the topic.
Why? don't they teach you your own history?
* French conquest of Algeria (1830–1902) – France invaded and colonized Algeria; scorched earth campaigns, mass killings, and forced displacement led to \~500,000 to over 1 million Algerian deaths.
* French conquest of Madagascar (1895–1905) – France invaded Madagascar, crushed resistance and used forced labor and reprisals that caused about 100,000 Malagasy deaths.
* Haitian Expedition (1802–1803) – Napoleon Bonaparte sent an army to reassert control over Haiti, carrying out mass executions and deportations that killed tens of thousands of Haitians.
* Sétif and Guelma massacre (1945) – French military and settler militias violently suppressed Algerian independence protests in Algeria, killing roughly 6,000 to 45,000 Algerians.
* Madagascar uprising (1947–1948) – France crushed an independence revolt in Madagascar with executions, village burnings, and mass detention, causing around 30,000 to 90,000 deaths.
As I said, buddy, you are Fr\*nch. You know nothing but slogans. You get your knowledge from your social media feeds. Those numbers are made up by just people like you for the sake of propaganda. The author of the blue book, which is the source of many claims of Armenians, accepted that the intent of the book was war propaganda funded by the British, an imperialist country that wants to divide and conquer the Ottoman Empire.
Here you can check population: [https://psi424.cankaya.edu.tr/uploads/files/Shaw%2C%20Ott%20Census%20System%20and%20Pop%2C%201831-1914%20%281978%29.pdf](https://psi424.cankaya.edu.tr/uploads/files/Shaw%2C%20Ott%20Census%20System%20and%20Pop%2C%201831-1914%20%281978%29.pdf)
If you are smart, you can understand the equation below:
Get the population of Armenia today (\~3m) and the average birth rate of Armenia since 1915 (it's 3).
The starting population to achieve these numbers is 800,000. If you deduct that number from the total Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire in 1915, you can get the real casualty numbers: 1,200k - 800k = 400k casualties.
It's way lower than the numbers on the list. And this sad event was committed by a country that was fighting for its existence, unlike a greedy imperialist country like Fr\*nce.
Hahahah yes the media is totally lying. Fucking turks sound like holocaust deniers when you put them in front of their past it's hilarious. Keep coping buddy, you live on stolen Armenian and Greek land
"Oh no Turks fought back when we wanted to slaughter them"
Yes I guess it is not easy to fight against a proper army instead of killing children and civilians eh?
Is that what your islamist leader erdogan teaches you? Lol let me guess it was self defense against the armenians, assyrians and greeks too eh? You people are a copy of russians it's hilarious. Invade, colonize and genocide everyone but still somehow you're the victim. Yes poor turkey militarily occupying a sovereign country "you don't get it we HAVE to colonize this country and ethnically cleanse it, we're victims" lol
Turkey and greece already has an agreement though.
Also that particular international law doesnt apply to the countries that didnt sign it like United States or Turkey.
Very stupid argument you made there
Greece has made it clear, this is what we entitled by law if Turkey not agree lets go to ICJ and solve differences there which is according to customary law.
Turkey refused and threatens to declare war or uses military threat for other matters.
I do not understand your comment, this is like Trump or Putin talking. Countries go to ICJ and solve differences, Turkey is not in the right here, and having non signed UNCLOS does not justify their position.
I am not saying Turkey is in the right and honestly I'm glad that Greeks have the islands, because we probably would've fucked them up, but the 12nm thing is honestly insane for our situation and I think is in bad faith given that there are Greek islands that are as close as 2km to Turkey. Just because UNCLOS have declared it does not make it automatically the just and right solution for all parties involved here.
UNCLOS is not automatic Greece gets 100% what they want.
UNCLOS says in theory if no objections this is what a country is entitled, if differences then there is ICJ and 3rd party arbritation avenue.
This what the law says and what democratic countries do. If one side rejects going to ICJ or proposes package deals or uses military threats to get better deal is not according to law.
In early 2000's we were close to solution, but negotiations failed since Turkey wanted to put in ICJ case grey zones without clarifying which islands they mean.
exactly, you propose to go to ICJ and solve maritime and continental shelf differences.
What you do not do is actively threaten to go to war.
Not having signed UNCLOS does not mean Turkey can do anything it wants.
"Not having signed UNCLOS does not mean Turkey can do anything it wants."
Are you insane or what? We are doing absolutely nothing. You are the one making "new" claims on the current status quo. We also didn't make any claims on Cyprus, but the Greeks tried to annex Cyprus out of nowhere. Your nation is an aggressor.
Stop trying to change things to your advantage at others' disadvantage. We told you to let's settle things in a WIN-WIN scenario and make peace in the region. We don't like bullies.
Turkish libya memorandum? Open threats? Casus belli in constitution?
You dont even seem to know what happened in Cyprus.
It seems definition of international law, military agression, threats is backwards in Turkey?
So signing an illegal memorandum with Libya ignoring big chunk of crete's and other major greek island EEZ is defending yourself?
Trying to drill in the waters of cyprus and only stopping under threats of sanctions is defending yourself? Sending military ships when other country is dropping fiber calbe between island is defending yourself?Harrassing italian research ships is defending yourself? Erdogan making open threats is defending yourself?
Can go on, as i said you have definitions backwards over there.
Also i guess Greece is America now lmao.
I have been clear with examples,you provide no argument other than some convoluted and murky argumentation about protecting yourself drawing parallel to US and Iran. Your main argument was about your country not being an agressor a clear lie as provided examples and arguments about you making open threats. Your argument was about status quo yet its clear you are agressively trying to enforce your policy.
Out of arguments you make a vague statement without any substance. You are indeed a state that tries to avoid international law and uses military threats/bullying and agression.
I guess your example with US and Iran hits close to home for you, as you seem to think you can act like the US does.
"You seem to think you can act as the US does."
We didn't claim anything; we were just sitting there doing nothing,
Greece first started to claim Cyprus than Aegean than Eastern Mediterranean. Stop acting like Israel.
We are just saying: "Stop, get some help... Let's negotiate, what is wrong with you?"
Then we figured out you guys are just fanatics like all our neighbours, and we started threatening. If you don't want to be civil, we won't be civil either.
so no argument at all, just bank statements trying to justify agression and somehow that you are victims.
My criticism about you acting like US does now seems fair.
"So no argument at all."
You are the aggressor. We have nothing to explain about our behaviour.
Why are you trying to expand Greece towards Turkey?
My criticism about you acting like the US does now seems fair because you still didn't explain your expanding nature.
Answer this :
"Greece first started to claim Cyprus than Aegean than Eastern Mediterranean."
Wannabe Israel.
settlers and getting land using military force, that is you.
So any more arguments other than vague statements?
I have already answered clearly with examples, you have not.
Guess who thinks their country is a victim and everyone is out to get them that is why they use military to threaten neighbors?
Seems it hits close to home, when you look at the mirror you see Israel or US.
You are the US, not us; deal with it. You can't answer any of my questions.
You started the Cyprus war; we were just chilling. Don't cry when you lose.
Why do you have too many jets if you are not aggressive? We only have a bunch of f16's for a defensive war against possible enemies from the eastern flank, like Russia and Iran. But you have more jets than fucking Germany. Why does a small nation like Greece, which has like 10 million people, is over purchasing agressive weapons? Why don't you just buy defensive ones?
We are the victim, and you are the agressor like Israel. Now you are plotting with Israel against Turkey in Cyprus, too.
You need to question what your government is telling you. Stop parroting them. They are fanatics. Warhawks and they have very dangerous ambitions for Greek people.
i answered all your questions with examples of Turkey's agressions and policy.
You have not managed to answer anything and instead make nonsensical arguments.
To be honest, I don't think this issue, like the Cyprus problem, will ever be resolved because it's used as election material by politicians on both sides.
Not really. International law is actually **much more nuanced** than that.
First, the **Athens FIR** was assigned by ICAO in 1952 purely for **civil aviation coordination**, not sovereignty. FIR responsibility does **not grant ownership or control of foreign airspace**. It only means providing air traffic services for civilian flights.
Second, Greece is the **only country in the world claiming 10 nautical miles of national airspace while maintaining 6 nautical miles of territorial waters**. Under the general principle of international law, national airspace corresponds to territorial waters. That extra **4-mile belt is precisely why the issue is disputed** and why Turkey has never recognized it.
Third, a large portion of the Aegean above the high seas is **international airspace**, meaning neither Greece nor Turkey has sovereignty there.
So saying “international law is on Greece’s side” oversimplifies a **long-standing legal dispute** that even NATO allies have never fully resolved. If the law were so clear-cut, this issue wouldn’t still be debated after 50+ years.
Greece owns several archipelagos. It’s not in itself an archipelago, but a peninsula. Indonesia is an island nation. Japan is an island nation. The Caribbean nations are island nations. 90% of the Greek population live on the mainland. Greece is not an island nation.
Doesn’t change anything. Even with your definition, each individual island or the mainland generates its own 12nm territorial sea separately, except in cases where the islands border Turkey. In that case, it’s the principle of équidistance which Greece always respected.
You can be as happy about it as you like. In the end, Turkey doesn't care anyway, they'll do their own thing there as they please, since they never signed the agreement.
That's what I've been saying for years. I hate the current Turkish government, but international law is simply extremely unfair in this case. However, Turkey never signed the UN Charter, which is why it doesn't abide by it. I think that's fair, too.
I know that this move’s main reason is Iran on paper, but everybody knows that the real target is Turkey. Iran is not a threat to Greece even a tiny bit. Greeks are too paranoid about Turkey and a possible Turkish invasion. We have much more serious threat called Israel, even their former prime minister explicitly threatened us. We don’t care about you malakas, we don’t have a problem with you unless you have a problem with us. The only thing Turkey doesn’t need right now is a new front on the Western part. But unfortunately I believe if a war emerges between Israel and Turkey, Greeks will also attack us from the west just like they tried 100 years ago, even if that won’t be the case, they’ll definitely allow Americans or other European troops to use their lands, airspace and maritime territory. I wish we could live peacefully just like we lived for more than 400 years ( nearly a 1000 if you also count the Greeks on Anatolia after the Seljuks arrived). The two nations have many similarities but still choose to avoid them with the help of external propagandas. Politicians of both countries also use the “enemy neighbour” idea as a way to herd the masses, just like in the Orwell’s 1984.
>I wish we could live peacefully just like we lived for more than 400 years ( nearly a 1000 if you also count the Greeks on Anatolia after the Seljuks arrived).
So looking back on the Ottomans being in charge of everyone? How about going back to the period of the 1930s? That's when all of the issues between the two sides were largely resolved. But no one wants to talk about that or look into the real reason why relations started to deteriorate in 1941.
Sure, I don’t have a problem with the situation in early years of our republic. I just gaved the Ottoman/Seljuk example as a deeper historical context, and what came to my mind first. I still wish the same thing, I hope we could live in peace.
Haven't commented in a while, but this just made my blood boil.
Greece is exerting her influence on neighbouring countries, and not really "protecting" them. My Bulgarian, Macedonian and Albanian friends, how are you just not seeing it?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all against regional cooperation, but it must be done on fair terms. Greece has never been fair to you, and neither is now. Besides, this is done under the NATO umbrella.
Greece also "asked" for NATO accession back in 1952, but a large percentage of us are not happy at all with that decision. I don't want NATO military presence in Greece, then why would I expect that an Albanian, Macedonian or Bulgarian (or of another nationality) would seek Greek military presence in his own country?
The government doesn't necessarily represent the people. Even if it seems to do so, the politicians are still very capable of passing unpopular legislation or convincing the people that something is beneficial or necessary, even though it really is not and instead is detrimental to themselves or the country in other ways.
Greece had a vote and the only political party that opposed the idea was the "ΕΔΑ" a left political party that was also representing the illegal communist of the time. So yeah the "large percentage" was so big that they stayed out of the parliament because of the lack of votes👌. Your narrative is from leftist sources and of course you dislike NATO and USA because you probably want a communist Greece.
The neighboring countries don't care for your ideas and they asked for help.
"The government doesn't necessarily represent the people" yes it does it's called democratic elections.
We like everything they do? Of course not!
I am guessing you would be ok with Russian bases here in Greece 😉
> So yeah the "large percentage" was so big that they stayed out of the parliament because of the lack of votes👌.
(According to a recent PEW survey, only 37% of Greeks view NATO favorably.)[https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/07/02/views-of-nato-july-24/]
> yes it does it's called democratic elections.
Now tell me how many refused or neglected to vote (because they don't care or, probably more often, they feel that no party represents them) and how much the system is skewed towards the first party.
> I am guessing you would be ok with Russian bases here in Greece 😉
Totally not. Russia isn't communist and, even if it was, it would still be imperialist.
Really hard point to get. What influences are you talking about, this is a normal alliance considering Iran is shooting everything that might be even remotely related to USA.
Don't even try, I am 100% sure that he belongs in a far left political party in Greece and sees imperialism everywhere 😂. He/she hates our government and can't even think straight.
> I am 100% sure that he belongs in a far left political party in Greece
I don't "belong" to any party, but I still have a clear preference for the KKE.
> He/she hates our government
Of course I do! Wasn't it obvious?
Primarily this is Greece showing these countries and their people who is the boss in the region and little more than that. Of course, the USA remain the real boss, but Greece likes tripping that we're a regional leader.
Besides, it's the USA together with Israel that caused all of this that Greece is supposedly protecting these countries from. And I say "supposedly", because Greece isn't much less vulnerable than Albania or Macedonia either way.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenic\_Air\_Force#Equipment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenic_Air_Force#Equipment) give it a read bro it's not that hard.
It’s definitely not the second largest air force in the EU. France is first, and countries like Germany, Italy and Spain all operate very large air forces as well.
These countries also literally produce some of the most advanced aircraft in Europe, like the Eurofighter Typhoon.
Greece has a strong air force for its size and a high number of fighters relative to its population, but claiming it’s the second largest in the EU simply isn’t accurate.
Greece only has more fighters than Germany in terms of raw numbers. Both Italy and Spain have more fighters than Greece. But numbers alone don’t determine the size or capability of an air force.
Countries like France, Germany, Italy and Spain operate much larger overall fleets and, more importantly, they have their own aerospace industries. They literally produce aircraft like the Eurofighter Typhoon and other advanced systems. In a wartime scenario they could shift their economies toward military production and scale up aircraft manufacturing.
Greece, on the other hand, buys most of its fighters from those same countries (or from the US), so it’s a very different situation in terms of industrial and military capability.
Depends on how much the war lasts. The increased industrial capacity of said countries could up the numbers of fighters produced but it can't significantly reduce the time it takes to produce them.
If the threat is imminent, having the equipment at your disposal is more valuable. But damn we should have had our own industries, at least for the simpler stuff.
My point was more about long-term capacity. Countries like the aforementioned ones have large aerospace industries, supply chains and engineering bases. Over time that gives them the ability to scale production, maintain fleets and replace losses in a way countries without that industrial base simply can’t.
In a wartime scenario, if Greece were to lose a large portion of its air force in an initial strike, it would basically be game over without external support from allies like these countries and the US.
And yes, I agree with you on the last part. Having at least some domestic industry, even for simpler systems, maintenance, or parts, makes a big difference. But Greece, for various reasons, isn’t really capable of sustaining a large military-industrial base, especially compared to countries like Germany, Italy or Spain. After all, it’s a relatively small, mountainous country with a much smaller population and economy.
Greece has around 140 F16s , 24 rafales , around the same number of Mirage 2000-5s , around 20 F4s still in service though how many remain operational is a big question and has 20 F35s on order .
If you want to get Constantinople back your women must have more children instead of having pets in their 30s. When i was in Greece i saw so many women with pets who are divorced or never married. Turkey has 90 million people. You have 11 million. Half of them are elder people.
Are they not concerned such old planes would be easy picking for the enemy? I'm guessing the planes have been upgraded, but there's a limit to what upgrades can do.
https://preview.redd.it/dyoq4agi1nog1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cbccfbe0946a14e3f712b2c1e7ee92cf859ef40
They are also beautiful though a bit overrated. I hope they get the same treatment as the F5s and we see them placed around the country as monuments hopefully in good looking liveries
Good question
Well , France and USA and turkey have more but they also have multiple times our population. Wikipedia says 30 f16 c and 7 d, 18 raffale, 24 mirage
And ordered 40 f35
Actually decent, which makes it an unstoppable force when compared to other balkan air forces, just like their navy - only their army is arguably lacking. Greece has a really strong military for its size. They used to do everything they could to be able to match Turkey, but recently Turkey has just grown too powerful for Greece to keep doing that.
As a none Balkan I’m so happy to see this. I hope Europe keeps getting stronger and defending themselves since it’s clear the USA only see y’all as vassals at best
I hope everyone stays safe
Honey ask your generals, do you have any military personnel to attend to planes, ships etc, you don't even have supply and maintenance personnel, you outsource to other countries like France, USA, UK
Its quite tied to israel. Israel attempts to create an umbrella alliance around turkey and wants to make it isolated. They largely won azerbaijan with its support against armenia, influencing media to not defend armenia during the war. Israel wanted to significantly arm greece more to reduce turkeys role, they wanted to destabilize greek-turkish relations, to pop up cyprus topic after 50 years since the conflict, israel forces eu to absorb entirety of cyprus through special scholarships and visa opportunities. Also so many israelis were encouraged to move to cyprus and buy land there, to the extent that locals were quite surprised by the demographics change.
Do we need to explain ourselves to you? Who the fuck are you to question good relationships and well intents among the people?
Also, you're not an authority over others to dictate your narrative. People here share their views and opinions on matters.
Both nations have a historical dislike towards sneaks so be careful.
I think I didn’t express myself clearly. What I meant was for the relationship towards the government not the people. We do need good relationships between the people especially in today’s climate. I didn’t understand what you mean by sneaks?
Its complicated to be honest. But it is related with iran. North of iran is south azerbeijan. 30 million shia turks living there but they are committed to the state unlike kurds. Kurds are a delusional and always rebel. Israel helped AZ during AR conflict as much as we did. Meanwhile IS tries to create tension south of TR with kurds. (They are beğng manipulated as always) TR is sceptical with iran too, bad blood you may say. AZ will not say anything to jewish politics but in case of a war, I believe AZ will stand with TR.coz one nation with two states.
In the past IS and TR was in collaboration because their interests were mutual. Now IS gone full retard and TR was also abondoned its foreign policy (coz erdo thinks he is a sultan or smt) Soo its complicated.
The goverments do it not the people. I've been 3 times on turkey as a greek, and I was shown nothing but love there.
I despise the Turkish goverment and their imperial aspirations, as much as I despise our president for signing up treated with a death cult(zionists), although it makes sense if your neighbour has an active casus beli on you.
But it's not the Turkish people that want war with us, neither most Greeks want war with Turks. I guess in another universe there is no turkey, greece or the rest of the balcan countries, there is just one country that is called the balcan republic or something, where we are not under zionist occupation and control.
Yeah I meant to the governments not the people I didn’t express myself clearly. I know there are lots of greeks don’t like to be associated with israel especially after everything that happened in past years
Not just Macedonians, Bulgars and Serbians as well. A ton of them. The only war is a bankers war. We can all coexist and we always could, they only divide us when we start to unite for prosperity, that wont make them more rich so yeah, divide and conquer.
I don’t trust greeks since the day they openly supported Russia when turkey shot down a Russian jet. Okay, we hate each other but that was way too much. Can’t we just contain our shadow conflict to aegean sea?
They didn’t support Russia, Tsipras (then PM) accused Turkey of hypocrisy, noting that Turkish jets frequently violate Greek FIR and fly over Greek islands, yet Greece does not shoot them down. Which is a totally valid remark and we all stand by it, even though Tsipras wasn’t very successful in other topics.
Greece: Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias expressed solidarity with Russia in a phone conversation with his Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov.[citation needed] (With reference to Aegean Dispute)Greeks, also stated that Turkey violated Greek airspace almost daily.[138]
Iran: President Rouhani said the governments of Russia and Turkey should investigate the circumstances and avoid repetition.[citation needed] Mohammad Javad Zarif, Iranian Foreign Minister, said the recent escalation of tensions between the two nations over Turkey's downing of a Russian jet can be settled through mutual discretion and prudence.[citation needed] General Yahya Rahim Safavi, a revolutionary guards adviser to the Supreme Leader of Iran, said Turkey had committed a "tactical mistake".[citation needed]
Iraq: Vice President Nouri al-Maliki accused Turkey of hypocrisy, saying that "Turkey's planes violate Iraqi and Syrian airspace every day".[139]
Kazakhstan: Kazakhstan Foreign Ministry urged both countries to show restraint.[140] President Nazarbayev said that the plane was in a war against terrorists.[141]
Latvia: Minister of Defence Raimonds Bergmanis told LNT that NATO allies are united with Turkey, who had the right to protect its airspace. He added that there is much evidence regarding breaches of Turkish airspace carried out by Russian military aircraft.[142]
Lithuania: Foreign Minister Linas Linkevičius supported Turkey's right to defend itself.[143]
How did he ignore your comment? You said that Greece didn‘t support Russia, and he gave you a citation that the Greek foreign minister did indeed show solidarity with Russia.
Did they directly fly over Greek islands or is it 6-12 mile maritime dispute stuff again? I really don’t have a clue about what kind of offence turks did, neither have an idea why NATO countries have separate military airspaces. (Military) Airspace has no resources or something meaningful, at least make it somewhat unified so that NATO would live a few years longer and look more promising.
Turkish jets fly over Greek islands almost every day since 1980s and later. This is a known fact. Yet, we don’t shoot you down like you did with Russian jets. Maybe Greece should follow your lead one day?
You forgot this
Cheers 👏
https://preview.redd.it/pb35cswpfrog1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a296714bb6c5d732de5e666994606b993270c26c
“Three weeks later (in the meantime, there had been a coup d'état attempt against him), Erdoğan announced in an interview that the two Turkish pilots who downed Russian aircraft were arrested on suspicion that they have links to the Gülen movement, and that a court should find out "the truth".\[125\] By doing so, Turkish government aimed to cast aspersions on the movement, a conspiracy theory implying that the organization was behind all the troubles Turkey was facing.\[126\]”
I mean it shouldnbe normal to fly over your islands as some of them 10km away from Turkey's mainland thanks to Italy and England back to 20th century. If you call that violation than you should check your coast guards harrasing Turkish civillian fishing boats I don't even now how many times.
Greeks custom can be boiled down to this, whatever turkey doing, do the opposite, if things go South, Cry a river, course they have alpha beta omega heritage...
Hellenic Forces trying to defend Nato countries from a Nato country by also being a Nato country (and in addition, current Turkish standing army without reserves constitutes 5% of entire Greece population) also we Turks visit Greek islands, drink ouzo with Greek friends and wonder why such news emerge from no where from time to time.
\> we Turks visit Greek islands, drink ouzo with Greek friends
Most Turks have overwhelmingly negative view of those people and brand them as traitors.
Eh they do. During times of natural disasters they help and provide a humanitarian hand. At the end of the day it’s like brothers, that have their own beef but when shit truly hits the fan they look out for one another.
I like it. And as a sign of my gratitude, I’ll spend a fee weeks this year on the Greece’s coastline (as I do every year) and spend my hard earned money in tavernas and shops.
It's usually spread in long weekends by 3-4 days. Apart from eating sea food and drinking ouzo, I mix my time with fishing, snorkeling and bike riding. Needless to say - I enjoy all of it.
Your sacrifice is noted. I, as a Frenchman, will do my duty to spend two weeks in Bulgaria this Summer. I went last Summer to Plovdiv, Mt Shipka, Veliko Tornovo and Varna, and will bathe in the Black Sea again as a show of solidarity.
And because it is a great place.
>I’ll spend a fee weeks this year on the Greece’s coastline (as I do every year) and spend my hard earned money in tavernas
This is literally what I live for and I'm not even ashamed to admit it lol
Anyone noticed how Ukrainian drones sink tankers with Russian oil off Crete? Unread about two recent incidents. So Greece ships LNG to Ukraine and Ukraine protects from Libya ?
Why does everyone understand what this means and I don't?
Protecting in what way? And from what? Doesn't Bulgaria and the rest countries have any airforce at all?
The map is somewhat misleading. Greece contributes to NATO air policing in the region, but it is not acting alone. For example, in Albania and Montenegro, Italy also participates and actually leads the mission. Greek participation in the air policing of these countries is auxiliary.
My point is simply that the map is misleading and oversimplified. It makes it look like Greece alone is responsible for policing most of the region’s airspace, which isn’t really how NATO air policing works. Yes, Greece participates, but other countries do as well.
For example, Albania and Montenegro shouldn’t be shown in the same colour as Greece, as Greece is not guarding there alone. The same is true about Bulgaria too.
Just cause it’s within the context of NATO doesn’t change the fact Greece is using its own resources ie money, time, personnel, equipment etc to do this I don’t see any other country doing something like this for us in the region either.
That’s not really accurate. Plenty of countries do exactly the same thing for others, that’s literally how NATO air policing works.
For example, the UK, Italy and France participate in guarding almost half of Europe’s airspace.
France has also recently discussed including several European countries, including Greece, under its nuclear umbrella.
So this kind of burden-sharing is normal within NATO.
>Greece recently declined to participate in guarding Estonia’s airspace, likely due to limited resources. Turkey participated instead.
Which means that Estonia now belongs to the glorious nation of Turkey rrraaaahhhh 🇹🇷🇹🇷
We all do. Albania does minesweeping in Latvia or Estonia, which is as dangerous. We also send patrol vessels in the Egeus to help with migrants. But, surely, Greece contributes more since it is richer.
It is good Greece is spending much on those war machines. And wonderful they are constantly flying over Macedonia, Bulgaria etc. They are the sole defenders of Europe's south-eastern borders. Greece should invest more in European and American jets, armaments and missiles.
When Turkey shoots down Russian jets because they violate our airspace, Turkey shares all the details and the jet's path etc.
I wonder why such stuff is never shared for so-called greek "airspace" violations.
Our guys flew 2 F16s to show that we have "capabilities" ourselves too :D
Thanks, fellas, we will protect the Ouzo in the summer by not letting it get warm.
Tbf our idea of protecting an airspace is to send a single F35 as if it can do anything on its own lmao so you're not too far off
The only 2 airspaces we actually properly protect are britains and irelands
This map is sh't. If Greece can declare the Turkish airspace as its own, then Turkiye can also declare the Greek territory as its own. Need to Wade up from the Hellenic Dream. If Greece is protecting the Balkans, Turkiye is protecting Europe.
We are looking after/feedjng enough migrants to easily fill 8 countries in Europe, and we are keeping Doors closed...
Much love to Greece and the balkans from America 🇺🇸
I am sorry this is the current state of the world and I wish for peace in the Middle East.
Stay safe yall
🇦🇱🇧🇬🇲🇪🇭🇷🇲🇰🇬🇷🇽🇰 🇷🇸 🇸🇮 🇧🇦🇹🇷
We can argue about borders, maritime, land, air, fucking radio station broadcasts, and I’m deeply sorry to anyone more deluded by their own peoples supremacy BUT:
in the face of a regional war, in the face of ANY Balkaner getting killed, I don’t give a fuck who owns what land, who started what, who’s right over this and that. The time is to shut the fuck up and stand together. Greece seem to be doing this and yes. I am jealous it wasn’t us that took the initiative, but guess what? I celebrate that someone DID. And what a proud neighbour I am today that our brothers in caciki and baklava have shielded our little mini continent, our other raki, borek and dolma siblings and cousins, so they may sleep safe because of the arms Greece extended to embrace and shield them with.
We can go back to flinging shit at each other later, but if our governments won’t use this opportunity to bring us all together in defence, cooperation, understanding and compassion, I will take it on myself to be confrontationally, aggressively and forcefully loving toward you all. Don’t like it? Don’t give a fuck, I give our sister Greece a kiss on her cheek and our other Balkan family hugs of reassurance. Worst part is I’ve just been to the gym and not showered. Dont like it? Here’s a pat on the ass (men only) for encouragement and a kiss on your head for luck. You WILL smell this Anatolian musk and you WILL feel its love.
Stay safe all.
Greetings,
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Cheers.
Umm... They already "trained" on our territory and us (civilians) for 70 + days back in '99. As i was a part of this training exercise, i must say: "Thanks, but no".
That being said, if there is a war going on somewhere i believe we can be fairly creative in finding ways to join in somehow. It has been peaceful for far too long. We're not used to it being this boring around these parts.
It’s not protection when there’s no attacks lol. It’s essentially a faux map. Greece wouldn’t be able to secure the area in case of invasion. The invader would send low flying shahed equivalents in swarms. Hellenic forces can’t fight against those due to numbers alone.
In that case it is cuz Aegean islands have territorial waters, which overlap with airspace. This is true for all countries on this planet btw.
Continue crying me a river
The only reason is not 12 is because we don’t want to get dragged to a meaningless war with Turkey. It’s perfectly legal to extend it to 12, which most countries have done it. We’re doing both of us a favour. Thank us later
He's actually right, that map shows the FIR not our Airspace. Turkey for example has a military exercise east of Rhodes inside the Greek FIR because the airspace there despite being inside Greek FIR is international.
Not just Greece, Turkey is also protecting the same airspaces, since they are a NATO member. Greece and Turkey are allies as well, despite their small conflicts between them.
Fancy to see the word “cry” from a Greek fella. Rest of the continent however see Greeks cry about almost everything they troubled themselves, mostly about Turks btw.
Has anything changed in greek economy that nobody knows such that greek goverment in such a depth that grand grand sons that are unborn will be paying these depths and still spending money weapons to support claims which it can not possibly?
Greeks are too paranoid about Turkey and a possible Turkish invasion. We have much more serious threat called Israel, even their former prime minister explicitly threatened us. We don’t care about you malakas, we don’t have a problem with you unless you have a problem with us. The only thing Turkey doesn’t need right now is a new front on the Western part. But unfortunately I believe if a war emerges between Israel and Turkey, Greeks will also attack us from the west just like they tried 100 years ago, even if that won’t be the case, they’ll definitely allow Americans or other European troops to use their lands, airspace and maritime territory.
Uh, no. This is a flight information region map (FIR). It's got nothing to do with the UN or military airspace. An FIR does not grant sovereignty over an airspace.
Did UN protected your friends when you lost half of the Cyprus? Lol
Call them next time; maybe they will come up with a nice letter of condemnation hahahaha
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Pedophiles are using Bulgaria and Greece to attack Iran. I don't think Bulgaria is in danger because missiles have to go through Turkey, but Greece is indeed in danger.
*Friendly reminder*
*This is NOT what actual*
*Greek airspace looks like.*
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FIR does not equal airspace by the way. Greek Air Force doesn't have authority over a lot of these zones.
I would also like them to join the Baltic Air Patrol instead of rejecting it each year. Patrolling empty skies over Bulgaria is easy mode.
Why would you willingly post a map that breeds show much jealousy in a subreddit like this full of people that don't even understand what this is even about
Unfortunately this is a necessary measure because of Turkish irredentism. Millions of Turks unironically and in all seriousness believe that a good chunk of Greece and Bulgaria are stolen Turkish land.
Why does an american have a turkish flair?
If your nationality is american you shouldnt have a turkish flair.
This is also a useless measure either EU or US will do anything if "turkish irredentism" you are talking about happens or they will get steamrolled.
Because my lived experience as a Turk born and raised in Turkey is pertinent to the context of the sub.
One can be culturally or ethnically Turkish, while also being an American.
I don't think you are culturally Turkish either. You were bashing anything related with being Turkish. I remember you well from some months ago. You were trying to stir polemic in Turkish sub.
I was born and raised in Turkey and didn't leave Turkey until midway through high school on a student visa. I kept returning to Turkey every summer thereafter and my entire first degree family is still in Turkey. Does that fall short of being sufficiently culturally Turkish?
Turkey and the Turkish society have a lot of aspects I criticize. Lack of freedom of speech for starters. Does it take away from one's Turkishness if one critiques the Turkish cultural value system?
Nope, it wasn't freedom of speech or anything like that. It was purely polemical and in the end, you deleted all of your comments and left lol. I don't think you are a Turk at all.
I delete my comments frequently because I've had more than one stalker in the Turkish reddit space that threatened to find my parents via the panel and murder them.
Which is one of the more tragic things about the Turkish culture. The culture itself is intolerant of dissent. Erdoğan is just a symptom of this.
>Which is one of the more tragic things about the Turkish culture. The culture itself is intolerant of dissent. Erdoğan is just a symptom of this.
Here's another, you stir up the pot, then you equalize the stalkers as "Turkish culture". This exposes your racism against Turks. You aren't a Turkish at all.
Looking at comments, OP seems to be confused or misled.
This is a flight information region map (FIR). It's got nothing to do with the UN or military airspace.
An FIR does not grant sovereignty over an airspace.
Thank you Hellenic Air Force. I see that some space is unprotected near the Turkish mainland. Those maximalist Turks are creating problems again. They don't abide by international law. Those barbarians..
To avoid any confusion: as a NATO-member, Turkey is allied with all the highlighted countries. Kinda weird that it has a separate color on the map somehow.
bro forgot we are nato and second most powerful military power after USA.
yes, you are defending nato very well with the jets we helped USA to build. With the jets we paid for but weren't given to us.
congratulations, you are defending nato even from us by violating the treaty of Lausanne, arming the islands.
So you really think you have %100 of the sea and the air above it. Because you have some rocks in sea that no one wants? Wow. I thought that was anti Greek propaganda but you really believe that. In that case anyone who has that islands will have the whole sea. Every military power in the world would want your islands then. And we are the least of your concerns because we really don’t want your crappy islands even if you constantly provoke. We just want to live and die in peace. I highly recommend against warmongering and escalation. We continue to protect your mainland and your islands as your ally. You are lucky Iran, Iraq, Syria and Russia are not your neighbors because we literally protect you from them.
Except you are not an “island state” and Aegean has a specific regime. We will never ever give a piece of rock with 500 people our whole Mediterranean access. Get a grip. Megisti is just a joke to claim thousands of miles of EEZ. Are you naive enough to think that we will let it?
Islands generate the same maritime zones as mainland territory and you can cry me a river about it. The fact that you don’t agree with an international regulation doesn’t mean we just have to accept it. So, it’s you who needs to get a grip.
Also funny how Turkey is entitled to other people’s territories😂
Whatever is mine is mine, whatever is your is actually doubtful.
Let’s go by this logic, I don’t find it fair that Turkey has more territory than Greece. You guys get everything for yourselves. Give some territory to us. Why aren’t you good neighbours? 😂
If they force this map, there will be war in between tr and gr soon enough. Its sad but reality, people will have to make decision between not having war vs meeting in the middle..
So komşu, the crazy EEZ lines on this map have nothing to do with why you are doing this, right? You are here to only help us and no other ulterior motives I hope?
Thank you Greece. But then I also wonder where all the F16s went we paid 16 billions for few years ago. If they aren't delivered yet, why? If they are delivered but we cant use them properly, why?
I don't know the total amount as it was broken into multiple parts. It also icluded rebuilding the air force base where there will be stationed to be compliant with US standards. So, depending on how you count it, it may reach that number.
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Greetings,
Your post/comment was removed because it breaks Rule 6 of r/AskBalkans "No trolling or baiting".
Lighthearted questions and comments are allowed within reason*. Posts or comments that are more controversial and could be considered outright trolling (posting inflammatory and/or offensive content) or baiting (posting provocative messages aiming to elicit angry responses out of other users) will be removed, and repeat offenders banned.
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Greetings,
Your post/comment was removed because it breaks Rule 6 of r/AskBalkans "No trolling or baiting".
Lighthearted questions and comments are allowed within reason*. Posts or comments that are more controversial and could be considered outright trolling (posting inflammatory and/or offensive content) or baiting (posting provocative messages aiming to elicit angry responses out of other users) will be removed, and repeat offenders banned.
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Greetings,
Your post/comment was removed because it breaks Rule 6 of r/AskBalkans "No trolling or baiting".
Lighthearted questions and comments are allowed within reason*. Posts or comments that are more controversial and could be considered outright trolling (posting inflammatory and/or offensive content) or baiting (posting provocative messages aiming to elicit angry responses out of other users) will be removed, and repeat offenders banned.
*Mod discretion applies (check wiki page)
They cant protect Greenland even if they followed your example why are redditors so stupid?
Denmark cant protect Greenland against an american invasion even if they spent half their economy in military every year.
Greetings,
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Lighthearted questions and comments are allowed within reason*. Posts or comments that are more controversial and could be considered outright trolling (posting inflammatory and/or offensive content) or baiting (posting provocative messages aiming to elicit angry responses out of other users) will be removed, and repeat offenders banned.
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The difference is that Denmark is a very advanced and democratic country.
I really like and respect Denmark, which is why I think its really sad you and many other countries (including us in Czechia) didn’t upkeep our militaries responsibly.
The bar for Greece is much lower, yet its better in this regard.
Either you aren't Danish or somebody hurt you. Either way, your "opinion" is as worthless as a piece of toilet paper. The last thing Greece needs is to follow Danish advice on security matters.
“Protecting” is a strong word. What did any of y’all do to Iran? We let the US use our land to strike a third country and now they want to retaliate. I think “endanger” is more close to what we do.
"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts". This is a trick to fool you into allowing the Greeks taking over your airspace. You have been warned. 😉
Be careful, Greeks support is'rae'hell.. At least their politicians, but they are in cahoots with Briton emperials for centuries.. But their people mostly leftist right? Right?
As a Bulgarian this make me kind of sad. Military procurement is at a such low level and corruption is eating the funds for the much needed systems that are needed to protect our population. Some very serious things need to change from out side, this is not a game. We need to complete a full escadrille of F-16 fighters (30 at least), new radars, more nervy ships are dully needed, short and long range rocket systems and several Patriot or SAMP/T systems, as well as drones, a lot of drones. We shouldn't need an ally to protects us, we should be able to protect ourselves and be able to fight side by side with out allies if the time comes.
Except that, I see that the general Bulgarian population is grateful and are happy about this. There were worries because we hosted several US refuelling sky tankers and that might have made us a target. Overall that is good, we are grateful, not like the macedonians who didn't even say thank you when we gifted them military equipment..
Iran - Zionism war showed that new age air wars done with ballistic missiles instead of aircrafts.
So aircraft's are still important but not protecting the air.
haha bro forgot to paint the whole area blue. While you are painting the whole island sea blue, you should have include Turkey too. Even that map shows how the greek aggression over the island seas.
I think in case of a conflict with Turkey, Greece wants these countries involved and join an alliance againist Turkey. Bombing the greek bases in foreign lands is a different thing. People are more focused on iran right now. Its an excuse for the arms race. Greece has nothing to do with iran.
Its not a military maneuver but a diplomatic one. They sent 2 jets to bulgaria and claim to be shielding bulgaria?
Protecting half balkan states with a shield of what 10 fighter jets?
And if anyone thinks this maritime map is ''just and okay'' is crazy. We cant even go for a swim if we agree to this ludacris pain map.
Greece has more fighter jets than Germany and close to number with turkey.
Clearly you are biased + north macedonia and albania countries with no airforce wouldnt really much of an addition in a war with turkey.
Bottom line Greece is just not an asshole
Just seeing this map makes me pissed seeing how many Islands Greece owns just off the coast of Turkey. Anything south of Turkish Thrace should not be Greek. Just looks forced as hell.
You do realize all of these islands were predominantly Greek-inhabited even when controlled by Ottomans? Even the islands Turkey does control were almost entirely Greek until the mid-20th Century.
As an American, I must caution between true protection and exertion of geopolitical leverage. If this is the democratic consenting will of these states, then Hellenic Air Force is essentially the EU's southern shield, with Crete being a huge asset.
I love it! Apes strong together. There should be a common budget so the burden financially doesn’t go to one country only. This should be paneuropean theme, we’d save billions in sublimate purchases and we’d be far more efficient !
This is a minor development. When Greece and Turkey protect each other's airspace one day, then it'll be major development for us all. Cross your fingers.
I don’t want to undermine our Balkan camaraderie, but we can’t even protect court witnesses, lol. That’s just induced procedures while in NATO autopilot.
Great. Thank you 👍.
Correct me if I am wrong I think it's a NATO decision for air policing as our sky is unprotected due to the incapacity of the Bulgarian air forces and after decades of ruining them by corrupted Bulgarian politics. Before the Greek planes we had air policing by Spanish, Italian and Turkish jet fighters.
Thank you also for the protection ensured by the Patriot rocket systems.👍
That's rich coming from a country that pulls shit like this
https://en.minbarlibya.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Turkey%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98Blue-Homeland%E2%80%99-striking-a-balance-in-the-Eastern-Mediterranean.jpg
I don't necessarily mind it, but I want these countries to invest in their own air-force. Otherwise, this becomes freeloading where Greece has to invest lots of money in its military while others can spend money on education, health or whatever.
685 Comments
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