As long as they give it a decent transmission it could be a good alternative to BMW especially if they offer a manual.
I don't see it selling well unfortunately, but it is a good marketing strategy to get people into showroom floors
I think it would be a good alternative if you were kinda fine not paying attention to most details. The stick would be nice, but the overall problem they'll face is they're building these cars on platforms they developed in the early 2000s.
If BMW was still building the 3 series on the e46 platform then yeah, you'd see some interesting competition. But they've been updating and refining the 3 for 20 years now while Infiniti has just been changing the body panels, freshening up the interior, and slapping some turbos on the same VQ engine.
Driving dynamics, ride comfort, handling, NVH, poise, etc are all going to be vastly different between the two, without even diving in to all of the technology updates.
I'd love to see someone legitimately challenge BMW in this space, competition is good for everyone, but the last time that happened was the original G35. Infiniti would have to have transition similar to that G20 to G35 evolution if it wants to be competitive here again.
I used to think the same as you but the truth is... the VR30 and the VQ37 engines do not share the same block design. While they are both 60-degree V6 engines they belong to entirely different engine families with different architectures. What's ironic is, the VR38 (GTR engine) is actually closer, designwise, to a VQ37, than than the VR30.
[check this out](https://youtube.com/watch?v=o-lp8H7XnzM&si=_Wnbowyg1ZN8P9du)
>I'd love to see someone legitimately challenge BMW in this space, competition is good for everyone, but the last time that happened was the original G35.
The VR30 may be where it's at, but the Q50 could really use a better 4cyl. That 211hp MB M274 unit wasn't cutting it, even at its debut. Nissan's variable compression KR20 is having lots of issues, so it doesn't really seem like the play either.
They used to play around with smaller VQs, at 2.5L and even 2L. Not sure they'd want to do that with the VRs.
I just wish they'd kept the 2 series a proper 2 series, bloat happens but man the swift departure from the 2 keeping up old BMW light cars to basically a 4 series but smaller wheelbase is sad.
Being able to buy a brand new car on an early 2000’s platform is actually its greatest selling point to me, and why it’s at the top of my list for my next new car.
Yep thats very true, it would need to be a lot cheaper than the BMW M340i, and even then despite the Cadillac CT5 V6 being cheaper it still doesn't sell anywhere near as well as the BMWs.
The VR30 also doesn't have a good or unique exhaust note like the VQ which helped set it apart.
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Listen, I Love manual transmissions. I like to imagine I will own at least one vehicle with one for the rest of my life. But who would ever buy a huge 3 row suv with a manual? That’s absurd.
> But who would ever buy a huge 3 row suv with a manual? That’s absurd.
I would,
a decade from now when it's going for 12k, so that I can take all the doors off, install a winch, put on offroad rubber, and hoon it around the sticks like an absolute asshole.
*Maybe*. I won't be shocked at all if they chicken out on actually bringing the manual version to the States, even if they offer it in Japan. I would absolutely be one of the few dozen handfuls of potential buyers though.
I have literally never heard anyone say *why* the old chassis is bad, people only ever seem to complain that it's old.
Most journalistic reviews of the car are "It's fine until you get past 7/10" and or "Not quite as fast around a track as the competition" which like *who cares*. Most people are sticking to public roads anyways.
Shouldnt be too surprising I guess, it's low effort to regurgitate things on social media to feel like you're engaging. The current Z drives much better than the previous 370z. I wonder about all the people saying they'd buy a BRZ if it came with a turbo even if it cost $40k. Well the Z performance is right there brand new with discounts if they search hard enough. Apparently people still arent buying them.
>wonder about all the people saying they'd buy a BRZ if it came with a turbo even if it cost $40k.
You know the answer to that question. It's the same group that will buy a Miata if it *"grows in size and has a V6"...*
I've seen lots of discussion on this in this subreddit. Personally i like the new Z, but there is definitely some carryover from the old chassis. The chassis hard points have to be the exact same which limits engineers and designers in what they can do. From motortrend:
> "The roofline was identical, as was the shape of the doors and side windows. The double-bubble roof was similar and the cutlines separating it from other panels identical. Cutlines elsewhere on the car were likewise similar or the same, indicating the body pieces mounted up in exactly the same places."
A lot of the subjective reviews i've read and watched of it compared to the new supra paint it in a poor light. I often have seen criticism of the interior layout and its suspension. In terms of aftermarket it doesn't seem like it will be anywhere near as popular as the GR supra for hardcore track or time attack builds. The GR supra is monstrously fast when modified. At 64k Canadian to get an lsd it is still slower, heavier, less reliable, less modifiable, and less capable than the 66k Supra, oh, and it has a worse interior. AFAIK the Z is literally the least refined and slowest sports car in its price category, which afaik consists only of it, the Mustang, the Corvette, and the Supra.
With all that being said i absolutely love the new Z and i'm hoping for its success. I think the car looks awesome, I actually like the interior a lot personally, and i think the engine can be capable of monstrous power. I hope to see some sick time attack builds of it, but I'm thinking the chassis is going to hold it back.
> From motortrend:
I mean I get their point, carrying over limitations isn't ideal - but if said carryover isn't *that bad*, then it's really not a big deal if the designers are forced to make certain design decisions if you like the outcome. I think it's a pretty sharp lookin' car, particularly in Nismo form with that front end.
> I often have seen criticism of the interior layout and its suspension.
I'll definitely agree on interior criticisms, that dash cam is like the same one they've been throwing in their cars for a decade! Suspension you could go back and forth on; most of the reviews I've watched say the Z is the more comfy daily driver, but falls apart when pushed to the limits on the track.
> In terms of aftermarket it doesn't seem like it will be anywhere near as popular as the GR supra for hardcore track or time attack builds. The GR supra is monstrously fast when modified.
No doubt the B58 is tuning king, but like you said in your second to last paragraph this motor has been in the Q50/60 Red Sport for a while, it still has lots of support out there.
> Also, I think the argument is that is good if you don't go above 7/10 is silly for a sports car. It is a sports car, the whole point is to enjoy driving it and to do fun stuff in it.
You can absolutely have plenty of fun at 7/10. Save driving like an asshole [for the track](https://www.reddit.com/r/Miata/comments/1r51h1m/m2_thought_it_was_a_track_day/)
People are confusing chassis with platform.
Nissan only has one RWD car platform, the FM platform. This is the basis of all their RWS coupes (Z, Q, GT-R).
The chassis is what's on the platform. There has been a new chassis for each generation, it's just that the new generation is an update of the z34, so it's the RZ34.
Same thing as the new mustang (s550 vs s650).
This is because we've kind of reached the realistic limit of chassis technology, at least for mass produced mainstream manufacturers.
The current Z chassis is already extremely light for its size. Realistically there can't be any more weight reduction unless they shorten the wheelbase (which is already short) or start using exotic materials
> The current Z chassis is already extremely light for its size
Then why is the Supra so much lighter? Everyone acknowledges that the RZ34 is quite heavy compared to its competitors and that its performance is held back as a result.
The Supra is lighter, but only by about 100 pounds, so it's not a huge difference.
Outside of the Supra, which cars are lighter? The mustang GT is over 300 pounds heavier, and the Camaro is over 100 pounds heavier.
The BMW M2, which I think its closest non-supra competitor, is also 300 pounds heavier
Where are you getting your weights? I'm getting 3673 for the 2026 auto Nismo (https://www.caranddriver.com/nissan/z) vs 3347 for the auto GR Supra (https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/supra-2022), which is 326 pounds for top performance model vs top performance model. However, they list the 2023 non nismo automatic at 3592 pounds, which seems odd to me. Car and driver puts the manual Z at 3507 vs 3343 vs the GR supra.
> It's fine until you get past 7/10
7/10 won't cut it if they want reasonable sales figures. At that point, there would be no reason to not just get a BMW 3-series or Mercedes C-Class.
Almost no one goes past 7/10 on public roads. And of that low percentage, the vast majority of them do not have new 3-series or c-class money.
And statistically speak, no one takes any of these cars to the track.
Only design for 7/10ths on a pseudo luxury sedan is fine.
Thank fuck I'm not the only one thinking this.
Yes, it's from the early 00s (debuted in 2003 under the V35 G35), but how is that a problem? It's got double A-arm front suspension, multi-link rear, massive disc brakes at all 4 corners as an option, aluminum front and rear subframes (on the Z at least), and is technically mid-engine (the front crank pulley is inline with the front axles).
All that, and you end up with a 400hp rwd coupe that clocks in at around 3500lbs.
This, because people aren't really critically thinking for themselves so much as just parroting what they see others say until it just because widely accepted in communities like this.
Even with the new Nismo version of the Z, the reviews I've watched/read sound like it's actually been sharpened and refined into being a pretty credible sports car (an overpriced one I'd argue, but that's not relevant to the point). So if Nissan takes those kinds of decisions and applies them as makes sense to an entry premium sport sedan context, that should be a solid car if they have the kind of interior and technology to justify its price as a new car.
Cadillac and Alfa Romeo are also brands whose sedans have been noted in the last decade as being some of the best sport sedans, just let down by not being as nice inside, so BMW's platforms and chassis tuning don't appear to be some kind of unmatched magic no one can challenge.
If they change to a new platform it’ll drop out of first place for me on my list of cars I want as my next daily. The old chassis is the best part to me.
As long as the body panels, interior, lights, drivetrain are all updated who really cares that it's on an older designed chassis? I would be more worried about price than what chasis it is using. I am just happy that they are choosing bring it back at this point.
I doubt they will, Nissan/Infiniti is in a similar financial situation to Stellantis, they're skimping on R&D left and right to keep cashflows positive. There's a reason why the new Z was basically lipstick on the same Z chassis from 2003.
It might, I think Infiniti is just in a pretty bad spot from a brand image though. 20 years ago they were legit contenders, even when the Q50 first debuted they were still a solid option, today infiniti is largely seen as the car you get when you want "luxury" but can't afford it.
IDK, maybe they knock it out of the park, but IMO they need to knock it out of the park or you're gonna see these things basically selling for well appointed camry prices again.
The TLX leaving sucks, but I think it shines a light on the issue of market dynamics for these sports sedans - if you're not BMW/Mercedes then you're really fighting for the "consolation prize" marketshare. At least Lexus falls back on a brand with a great reputation, Infiniti squandered any goodwill the original G35 had created for them.
I feel like they were scared of cannibalizing their own GTR sales, when they should have been thinking about how selling 10 fewer GTRs to sell 10,000 sedans and cannibalize BMW sales is a massive win.
>they should have been thinking about how selling 10 fewer GTRs to sell 10,000 sedan
Think about those numbers for a sec. There were under 50,000 R35 GT-Rs produced. In 18yrs. With hand-built engines. The best they did for a short stretch was 1,000 GT-Rs monthly.
So how are they supposed to 'mobilize the troops' and crank out 10,000 GT-R powered Q50s? Even if they wanted to, this wasn't happening in the numerous they'd need to make it competitive with an M3. At the time(2014), it was closer to M5 power anyway, with 560hp, well over 100hp more than the M3 back then.
The Eau Rouge had the more expensive GT-R's hardware, like the hand-built VR38 engine. It was the only VR available.
Now there are cheaper options. If they used the mass-produced VR35 for an upgrade over the standard car, it could be doable.
I had a 2019 Q50 Red Sport. There wasn’t many options out there where you could get 400hp for a little bit over $60k. It wasn’t a perfect car and the interior was mediocre…but it was still a fun sleeper car to drive. Many people commended it just because they don’t see it often and I kept it pretty clean.
\> . That model will be followed by an even more powerful variant based on the QX80 Track Spec concept shown last year.
I had the track spec confused with the r-spec & was quite excited for a moment. I'm excited regardless
I love the idea of the Escalade V in character but it's obviously quite pricey, the Armada Nismo is fairly reasonable & reviewed quite well too. The pair are the best products Nissan/Infiniti have right now
A new Lightning successor would've been relatively easy to do as well.
Ford could take the upgraded chassis of the F150 Raptor...and just lower it a bit. Not dumping it, just better for the road, like a Range Rover Sport or Ford's own Explorer ST. This truck just needs to turn better, it's nowhere near as difficult as handling offroad driving and small jumps. Tune the Raptor's engine/transmission a little differently, maybe change the final drive, and a slightly lower front bumper for styling.
Ford wanted to push EVs though, and where's that Lightning now?? Sad.
i lowered my 2024 rcsb 3" front / 5" rear, put on 6 spoke wheels 20 in tires and lots of tread because Ford doesn't make a modern lightning, so I'm making one
I've been saving up for a blower and i'm on track to meet my goal this fall god willing and the build is complete, which I thought was the case until you put an idea in my head.
I wonder if I can swap a raptor rear suspension into my regular cab
I don't even have the money for a Raptor, but with 'foolaround money,' I'd definitely take one and try to make it into a new Lightning. Even a 1st gen with the V8. Having the big fenders would be neat, seeing how much tire you could fit in there.
No, it shouldn't have been. The SRT-10 and SVT Lightning, while cool as hell, were showroom pieces. They looked great on the floor but nobody bought them aside from the rush of pent up demand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_SVT_Cobra
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2nd-gen-ford-f150-svt-lightning-history
That seems extremely untrue, unless you're literally comparing two years of "Terminator Cobra" to the six years of SVT Lightning production, which, yeah, no shit. I'd be interested in what data you're looking at.
Yeah I used the 03/04 as a low volume example of a car that was definitely not just a showroom piece.
00 Cobra R sure. You see Lightnings all over enthusiast circles being driven. There is nothing really too bespoke about them that people would want to preserve or would prevent them from being repaired from wear and tear.
They sold more Cobras in 2003 and 2004 and than Lightnings in 2003 and 2004.
I'm not sure what point you're making other than you desperately don't want to be wrong.
Because they sold 28,000 lightnings and you’re calling them showroom pieces lol when that’s just not true.
Or you have an odd definition of a showroom car. There’s less than 5,000 C6 ZR1s. Are those showroom cars?
> Because they sold 28,000 Gen 2 lightnings and you’re calling them showroom pieces lol when that’s just not true.
One of us is providing data to back up their assertions, the other is providing vibes. Literally every thesis you've presented I've come armed with data, and you keep saying "nah mate" without any kind of reasoning beyond something akin to "trust me bro."
None of your reasoning about scarcity addresses the core thing I said: people were not eager to buy them. It's an expensive ass truck that can't tow, can't haul, and can't go as fast as a similarly priced Mustang. I know they made 28k of them, and they struggled to sell every single one of them, just like Honda dealers couldn't wait until the S2000 CR was discontinued so they wouldn't have to bother selling them anymore.
You sound like a younger person who is only looking at this through the lens of what's available now and what the culture around them is like now, and not what it was like *then*, which is **the point we have been arguing that you have so blindly been ignoring.**
No you’re just using a weird term “showroom car”
You could say it wasn’t popular, sure.
But to insinuate they were some one-off bespoke run that only served to sit in some boomers garage is just wrong lol.
I can find you 5 of them for sale with over 80k miles just on my own Facebook marketplace radius.
You say I’m basing this off vibes, fine. But conversely you’re only basing it off sales volume. Should I list every trim level of every vehicle that sold less than 4K units per year and you’ll call them all showroom vehicles?
I am going to assume this has been a massive misunderstanding of the point that I have consistently been making and you aren't just ignoring everything I'm writing.
I think at this point we both understand each other, and there's nothing more to say, and I hope you have a wonderful day <3
People really forget Detroit tried to make this market, as there were some BOF road street sport trucks in 90’s to 00’s.
SSR, Typhoon, OG Lighting, and Ram SRT-10 were their masterpieces.
I rode on a pre-war racecar at laguna. It was basically a box on a basic frame. Very scary on camber, you sit super high because the wheels are super tall and skinny, so it feels like you're gonna flip over and die.
When were the first unibody race or track cars made?
I mean, they've taken it a step further by calling it "TRACK" spec, like ain't noone takin that land yacht on a racetrack. But of course the others are funny too, especially the X5M "Competition"
tbh the bmw m comp suvs are the one brand that can totally get away with this IMO purely bc they have for whatever reason made them uncompromising m cars
terribly harsh, quite stiff, I'd much rather have an m60i or whatever it is, but on a back road I think I'd absolutely enjoy one as much as I would an M8 or previous gen M3
What company, after going through the expense of making a low-demand, low margin dedicated sports coupe, would then go to the even lower margin of making it "entry level basic"?
Makes sense to me! If they bring in the track spec at or under 100k they will eat Escalade v for lunch. I know I would want one. Especially without gm 6.2 v8 trouble.
I get why these mega full size SUV exist, and I know there's buyers for them. I really just want to know why. Like what possesses people to want a 600+ hp SUV.
Is it purely just status? Dick measuring with the other kids parents at soccer practice?
Idk I guess it's just not for me, even as a parent
What possesses someone to buy a sports car?
If I was going to be stuck in an SUV, I would absolutely consider something like a GLE63 AMG. They sound really, really good. Beyond that, they would absolutely demolish my 86 in a straight line race (and, let’s be real, on most tracks that aren’t Tsukuba) and they’re like 10x more comfortable. Why not make the best of an SUV situation?
>I would absolutely consider something like a GLE63 AMG
>would absolutely demolish my 86 in a straight line race
Well I would hope so for $135k lol. A twin turbo 4L V8 with over 600 hp against a 228 hp 4 cylinder.
Yeah most luxury sports cars, sporty suv's/whatever you want to call them fall flat on their face in this regard. The GLE is a absolute snooze fest in that regard. I've driven a Urus before. One of the few that can take a turn decently but it still falls on its face when it comes to driver engagement. There's more to a car than it's power and how fast it can take a turn.
The push to make everything "luxury" is what's making sports cars more and more numb. Electric power steering is easier to use but ends up being numb. Tons of sound insulation for a quiet ride makes you feel isolated to the road and adds a bunch fo weight. BMW manuals feel rubbery, vague and awful. Cars keep pushing power and then need a bunch of electronic interference just to keep them drivable. Brake by wire systems so you cant feel the grip and slip of the tires under heavy braking. How many times do you have to listen to people reviewing "sports cars" and their biggest compliment is "the car hides its weight well"?
Sports SUV's never really made sense to me. They end up being bad to mid sports cars and the things that make it "sporty" make it worse at SUV things. Its a vehicle type thats just compromised on all fronts
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Exactly. I mean, a super sedan or wagon can work for a family too, like an M5 or RS6. But for those who want an SUV, this fits the bill...just like the Escalade V or Range Rover SV.
It'll never live up to that name if they call it that, although it might prove lovable if you take it for what it is, not unlike an 1990s Impala "Super Sport" or a X7 "M"60i, etc. And given various BOF vehicles had decent performance versions (again, within the context of what it is) from the Marauder to the Escalade-V, I am interested in what they come up with.
My concern, as someone who won't be able to afford it anyway and therefore isn't a customer, is if people wanting a sporty yacht will accept a twin-turbo V-6 when compared to a V-8 like the aforementioned Cadillac or a Range Rover etc.
> It'll never live up to that name if they call it that, although it might prove lovable if you take it for what it is
Agreed, it's a hilarious name for what it actually is (just call it Sport Pack or something). Hence comparing it to an 8,000 ton ship.
> My concern, as someone who won't be able to afford it anyway and therefore isn't a customer, is if people wanting a sporty yacht will accept a twin-turbo V-6 when compared to a V-8 like the aforementioned Cadillac or a Range Rover etc.
The regular Patrol/Armada already has that issue doesn't it? And the NISMO Armada sells decently from what Americans tell me on here.
I think consumers of this large SUVs have generally embraced 6-cylinders reasonably well, seeing as how everyone other than General Motors has switched to one. But that's the mass market, whereas a "Track Spec" is more niche and focused on a more specific kind of customer. Not as dramatic as the backlash over the 4-cylinder C63 or such, but maybe I'm wrong. Nissan has no immediate V-8s they could drop in anyway. They'd have to bring back the VK *and* develop a forced inducted version to give it sufficient output, not something I envision them being able to afford given their precarious financial state.
The Armada (Patrol) sells well enough, but the Nismo variant is new to North Americans for 2026 so hard to say how well it's doing so far unless there's reporting I haven't seen. From what I've observed, the Escalade-V has done quite well although no one seems to be quantifying that. The Nismo seems really cool (I love the absurdity and prefer to avoid luxury branding on cars but that price with no ventilated front seats (or heated second row if I recall correctly) makes it an instant no for me.
The new QX80 is a beast. I would say imo its the best 7/8 passenger out there from the japanese brands.
Def. Felt the best when we test drove all the ones last year.
I like the Armada cause it's mostly the same but comes in a good bit cheaper.
Buddy got one after being disappointed with the LC250 and I was impressed, probably the best alternative to the GMT platform SUVs out there.
It's also just a way cooler name than Patrol or QX80
A car that size really fits with the idea of bringing an entire Armada with you on the road. That thing ain't patrolling shit without being spotted, it's the size of a barn.
Not crazy imo. Nissan/infiniti always had the least refined and most powerful engines compared to Honda/Toyota when you look back throughout the years.
The new Landcruiser is kinda dogwater for how much it is. It’s decently capable but the storage space is decreased due to the hybrid battery bump and all the mechanicals are cheaper and not as stout as previous generations. The gas tank is also really small.
Does it make sense? Not really, but I applaud Infiniti/Nissan for doing something Lexus isn’t. These QX80s will be interesting once depreciation has taken its toll in a couple years
I looked up ~2018ish Armadas/QX80s vs Land Cruisers/LXes and at one point, an average Nissan/Infiniti was worth around three times less than the cheapest Toyota/Lexus equivalent. $13k vs $40k.
Granted, the Nissans were always cheaper, but they really fumbled the bag with the Y62’s styling. The Y63 looks way better, hopefully this translates into more retained value.
It takes like a millisecond of thinking to know that the Armada and QX80, two full size body on frame SUVs, were never even offered with a CVT. Even at the peak of CVT usage Nissan always had several models that did not have it.
I don't blame anyone raised only on a diet of stale memes for thinking for a millisecond that Nissan product=CVT. But it takes only a few seconds of Googling to learn that they have plenty of non-CVT products.
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