TheaterFire

Qwen-3.5-27B-Derestricted

Posted by My_Unbiased_Opinion@reddit | LocalLLaMA | View on Reddit | 87 comments

Just saw this posted. Has anyone tried this and compared it to Heretic models? I don't see any GGUFs done yet.

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87 Comments

Arli_AI@reddit

Hey you found me new model! I’m still experimenting with the new Qwen 3.5 models and this is still the first try for the 27B model, I posted it to see if people thought it’s any good so would be nice to hear some feedback on it.
View on Reddit #80247997

julieroseoff@reddit

Sorry for my question but what’s the difference between an abliterated version ?
View on Reddit #80304065

Ticrotter_serrer@reddit

No "safeguards" It won't say no.
View on Reddit #80323856

Former-Ad-5757@reddit

But it still won't have the base data so essentially it hallucinates more and more. The quality goes down.
View on Reddit #80652886

Ticrotter_serrer@reddit

I must admit that I have not tested these models to that extent, but they claim that it does not affect the "intellect" of the model. So that is not true?
View on Reddit #80653283

Dexamph@reddit

I had it write a story but I forgot to turn some tools off (web search, visit website) and it would produce gibberish paragraphs near the end when Heretic with those tools left on works fine. Turning those tools off fixes it but the stories are still less coherent than Heretic. Both models at Q6, no KV quant, everything the same. One night in October 2026, Chloe sat by the window watching moonlight dance across ocean waves while Sophie slept peacefully upstairs after finishing homework about local history near riverbank park area where used sit alone often thinking about future possibilities yet to come true eventually inevitably surely eventually without doubt probably maybe possibly potentially hopefully optimistically realistically actually genuinely truly honestly sincerely faithfully accurately precisely exactly correctly properly appropriately suitably adequately sufficiently effectively efficiently successfully ultimately finally conclusively definitively certainly absolutely positively definitely without question or hesitation whatsoever ever again forevermore from now on until end of time itself passes away completely gone vanished disappeared entirely extinct forever lost forgotten never remembered again by anyone anywhere anytime anything everything nothing somewhere nowhere anywhere everywhere allways always never sometimes occasionally rarely seldom frequently often usually typically generally commonly normally typically standardly ordinarily regularly habitually customarily traditionally historically culturally socially politically economically technologically scientifically medically legally ethically morally philosophically spiritually religiously emotionally mentally physically biologically chemically environmentally geographically historically linguistically anthropologically archaeologically sociologically psychologically neurologically physiologically genetically molecularly cellularly atomicly quantumly cosmically universally divinely infinitely eternally transcendentally immanently omnipotently omnisciently omnibenevolently perfectly holistically comprehensively exhaustively inclusively exclusively selectively specifically generally broadly widely extensively deeply thoroughly fully completely totally absolutely entirely wholly utterly.
View on Reddit #80340887

Arli_AI@reddit

This might not be optimal yet, thanks for reporting this.
View on Reddit #80443088

Corporate_Drone31@reddit

Haven't tested the new Qwen from you yet, but I'll go out on a limb and say good work.
View on Reddit #80283086

Coincidence9@reddit

Please release 397B!!!
View on Reddit #80244276

tarruda@reddit

For now there's https://huggingface.co/Sabomako/Qwen3.5-397B-A17B-heretic-bf16-GGUF which I quantized myself using u/VoidAlchemy imatrix and smol-IQ2_XS recipe (https://huggingface.co/ubergarm/Qwen3.5-397B-A17B-GGUF). Seems to work well, though TBH I didn't test much.
View on Reddit #80248058

VoidAlchemy@reddit

Nice! Thanks u/tarruda I'm very happy if you can release it! Feel free to look at the metadata at the top of my [README.md](http://README.md) and .gitattributes files to seed your repo etc. Another guy was quanting a smaller model over here where I give some more instructions: [https://huggingface.co/ubergarm/Qwen3.5-27B-GGUF/discussions/5](https://huggingface.co/ubergarm/Qwen3.5-27B-GGUF/discussions/5) I gotta update my quant cookers guide haha...
View on Reddit #80363981

tarruda@reddit

Planning to release it this week! Just need to get a bit more familiar with huggingface since it will be my first model upload.
View on Reddit #80398069

VoidAlchemy@reddit

Nice! Feel free to open a discussion on any of my hf repos if you have specific questions. I generally do it kinda like this: 1. Create new repo manually on hf website with my usual naming convention 2. clone the repo using git with git lfs stuff installed 3. copy over my old `.gitattributes` (which makes png files, ggufs etc as LFS) 4. copy over an old README.md and update the yaml metadata header with the correct information and tags 5. cook my quants 6. upload using `hf upload myhfname/myhfrepo ./path path` 7. then update my local git repo with `GIT_LFS_SKIP_SMUDGE=1 git pull` If you end up specializing in some kind of quantization, or for some types of models, you might be able to get a grant from HF for more public repo space too. Cheers and nice job with all your recent efforts!
View on Reddit #80419930

tarruda@reddit

Done : https://huggingface.co/tarruda/Qwen3.5-397B-A17B-heretic-smol-IQ2_XS-GGUF
View on Reddit #80575165

VoidAlchemy@reddit

sweeeet! going to <3 it right now!
View on Reddit #80597301

TacGibs@reddit

Will you upload it ?
View on Reddit #80293444

tarruda@reddit

It is close to 120G, IDK if a free account is enough.
View on Reddit #80321215

TacGibs@reddit

It has, 8.7 TB for public storage !
View on Reddit #80321721

tarruda@reddit

Uploaded: https://huggingface.co/tarruda/Qwen3.5-397B-A17B-heretic-smol-IQ2_XS-GGUF
View on Reddit #80575226

tarruda@reddit

Nice, I will try to upload later. It will take a while though, my upload speed is kinda low
View on Reddit #80327004

Arli_AI@reddit

I am trying to do the 397B for sure 👍
View on Reddit #80248108

Zestyclose_Yak_3174@reddit

Some of his models scored really well in terms of coherence and intelligence. As can be observed on UGI Leaderboard. Based on his past track record this can be very interesting. Currently quanting it to take it for a spin but since I do the conversion locally on own hardware this will take a little while.
View on Reddit #80235833

My_Unbiased_Opinion@reddit (OP)

Yeah I also follow the UGI board and pretty much every derestricted model has been better than the original even with NatInt
View on Reddit #80236121

-p-e-w-@reddit

While it’s true that “derestricted” models often outperform their base models on NatInt, it should be noted that Heretic models can perform much better yet. For example, MuXodious/gpt-oss-20b-RichardErkhov-heresy (NatInt 22.52, Willingness 10) absolutely *murders* ArliAI/gpt-oss-20b-Derestricted (NatInt 18.31, Willingness 8.8) It’s both more intelligent and more uncensored, by substantial margins. The original derestriction implementation is missing Heretic’s parameter optimizer.
View on Reddit #80237017

Lorian0x7@reddit

I love your work and heretic models, they are great for when you need uncensored information however they are terrible when dealing with roleplay and scenarios where you need uncensored content but context understandings. Because the model lost any type of moral friction it doesn't understand the gravity of situations and moral implications, even the most extreme situations feel like it's totally normal.
View on Reddit #80248195

IrisColt@reddit

I just checked, and this Derestricted model also has trouble sticking to instructions about unconventional narrative viewpoins... even when explicitly warned. The Heretic model doesn’t have that problem.
View on Reddit #80376129

IrisColt@reddit

>but context understandings I just checked and this Derestricted has slightly worse context understanding than Heretic, and far more glitches like "think" tags out of order or straightforward garbage characters, for the same recommended parameters.
View on Reddit #80353699

Paradigmind@reddit

Could you please recommend me some of the smartest/best local RP models? I have 24GB vRam and 96GB Ram so something like Deepseek is out of my scope.
View on Reddit #80251619

iBog@reddit

./llama-server \ -m ./Qwen3.5-122B-A10B/Qwen3.5-122B-A10B-IQ4_NL-00001-of-00003.gguf \ --mmproj ./Qwen3.5-122B-A10B/mmproj-F16.gguf \ --n-cpu-moe 42 \ --n-gpu-layers 99 \ --threads 16 \ -c 0 -fa 1 \ --temp 1.0 --top-p 0.95 --top-k 20 --min-p 0.00 \ --jinja \ -ub 2048 -b 2048 \ --host 0.0.0.0 --port 8502
View on Reddit #80258347

Paradigmind@reddit

So Qwen3.5-122B-A10B it is? But isn't it censored? I use Kobold.cpp so I need to check if I can properly fit it there.
View on Reddit #80329817

Innomen@reddit

Counterpoint: I would prefer the effect you're talking about. Perfect for simulating alternate worlds.
View on Reddit #80307142

-p-e-w-@reddit

Correct, for roleplay it’s best to first abliterate a model and then lightly finetune it. There are several models on HF that take this approach.
View on Reddit #80249393

Paradigmind@reddit

So for roleplay abliterated > derestricted > heretic? Do you happen to know a good Qwen3.5 RP finetune or what's the current SOTA local RP model?
View on Reddit #80251488

Poro579@reddit

If you don't play nsfw rp that is too heavy, the original version is the best (you can simply bypass the restrictions with some prompt techniques).
View on Reddit #80306478

Corporate_Drone31@reddit

Could there be an abliteration approach that aims to maintain cohesive moral reasoning despite refusal removal? Some data samples that include a few moral decision problems, which would need the moral reasoning vector to be intact while allowing safety training to be ablated.
View on Reddit #80283349

AlwaysLateToThaParty@reddit

Interesting to see the use-cases having different implementations. I'm just there for any llm to analyse a subject, and some of the content can be confronting and always private. Cloud is not an option. We use heretic because we don't want to second guess the model as we use it for analysis. Seems to do that. RP is an entirely different use-case. Love seeing the variation.
View on Reddit #80312831

Arli_AI@reddit

Sure, its a different method. Derestricted is more manual and doesn’t intend for the model to only be exactly but uncensored. I’m at the top of UGI leaderboard so I believe I’m doing something right.
View on Reddit #80247800

My_Unbiased_Opinion@reddit (OP)

Your GPT 120B derestricted model is a menace. Incredibly well done. Literally zero issues with it. 
View on Reddit #80277113

oxygen_addiction@reddit

Thanks a lot for your work and for sharing it with the community.
View on Reddit #80268141

kaisurniwurer@reddit

With every decensoring, a flower blooms somewhere in the world. Thanks a lot.
View on Reddit #80252938

tarruda@reddit

What is NatInt?
View on Reddit #80247964

wh33t@reddit

Natural Intelligence. It's one of the columns measured on the UGI index.
View on Reddit #80257313

redditorialy_retard@reddit

the heck, so the heretic models are actually more intelligent? shit I might get the Horny Qwen to code and write spicy stories while waiting for Qwen to finish coding. 
View on Reddit #80251758

My_Unbiased_Opinion@reddit (OP)

Oh for sure. I love your work! Currently using a Heretic Q3.5 27B with SOM and MPOA. It's extremely good already. 
View on Reddit #80238057

Thrumpwart@reddit

I’m always curious what you people use these things for…
View on Reddit #80294458

henk717@reddit

I like a model that doesn't fight with me when it objects. The unrestricted parts are usually useful in fiction since otherwise it can refuse to much. But in general I hate censorship and don't like a model throwing roadblocks at me that don't even work. I have never seen a censored model that I could not get molotov cocktail information out of, I think I even managed it on GPT-OSS at some point. So its protecting nothing, all it does is make it more annoying to use and I object to that concept.
View on Reddit #80322374

Thrumpwart@reddit

Ok, for creative writing I guess it can make sense. I just never understood how popular these things were.
View on Reddit #80324900

ThisWillPass@reddit

The same things you would use them for obviously… /s
View on Reddit #80308594

Thrumpwart@reddit

Eldritch Gnome furry porn fanfic? Really, all of you?
View on Reddit #80324847

mycall@reddit

I thought Heretic 1.2 was a superset of the Derestricted features, making this variant obsolete.
View on Reddit #80243893

Coincidence9@reddit

Arliai derestricted ver. is much better than heretic
View on Reddit #80244240

golden_monkey_and_oj@reddit

By what metric is it better? Trying to understand the field of uncensored models and so many comments about them are without explanation. Where are you finding discussion of these models and methodologies to uncensor them? I dont see much of that happening here, but maybe I havent been paying enough attention
View on Reddit #80249742

Double_Cause4609@reddit

Better as in less unintended damage of the baseline features of the model, typically measured by KL divergence over a held-out test set. But the tricky part is Heretic has implemented the norm preserving abliteration technique ArliAI used, and also has strong baseline techniques like their KLD restraints, etc, so it's hard to tell whose is actually better, now.
View on Reddit #80260650

teleprint-me@reddit

Sounds like a collaborative effort then.
View on Reddit #80266428

Double_Cause4609@reddit

In the end, community doesn't just mean people who quietly download a model and use it. It's also all the people doing real implementations and contributing ideas that make everything better for all of us, too.
View on Reddit #80270411

AlwaysLateToThaParty@reddit

Seems like it really is about use cases. they each do their thing well. Depends on what you want. What a crazy world we live in.
View on Reddit #80312946

golden_monkey_and_oj@reddit

Thanks for your explanation Where is this community / collaboration happening? My confusion is that I occasionally see models posted to this sub that are "obliterated" or "heretic" and they sound edgy but without context I don't know what they indicate. Like is it the work of some singular developer? Does Heretic or any other adjective imply that they are following a specific methodology from a published paper? Aside from this sub I dont see many sincere / non spam communities that discuss local LLMs use and am always curious where else people are collaborating
View on Reddit #80282784

pigeon57434@reddit

it is literally not heretic now has MPOA+SOMA which the same technique that derestricted does + an additional superior method SOMA and with ARA coming soon its not even close
View on Reddit #80253335

mycall@reddit

How do you know that? [Heretic 1.2](https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1r4n3as/heretic_12_released_70_lower_vram_usage_with/) gave example: "For example, MuXodious/gpt-oss-20b-RichardErkhov-heresy dominates ArliAI/gpt-oss-20b-Derestricted on the UGI Leaderboard, scoring 39.05 vs 34.22 and beating the derestricted model in every individual test (W/10, NatInt, and Writing)."
View on Reddit #80244513

Dexamph@reddit

I had it write a story but I forgot to turn some tools off (web search, visit website) and it would produce gibberish paragraphs near the end when Heretic with those tools left on works fine. Turning off tools off fixes it but the story is still less coherent than Heretic. Both models were at Q6, no KV quant. One night in October 2026, Chloe sat by the window watching moonlight dance across ocean waves while Sophie slept peacefully upstairs after finishing homework about local history near riverbank park area where used sit alone often thinking about future possibilities yet to come true eventually inevitably surely eventually without doubt probably maybe possibly potentially hopefully optimistically realistically actually genuinely truly honestly sincerely faithfully accurately precisely exactly correctly properly appropriately suitably adequately sufficiently effectively efficiently successfully ultimately finally conclusively definitively certainly absolutely positively definitely without question or hesitation whatsoever ever again forevermore from now on until end of time itself passes away completely gone vanished disappeared entirely extinct forever lost forgotten never remembered again by anyone anywhere anytime anything everything nothing somewhere nowhere anywhere everywhere allways always never sometimes occasionally rarely seldom frequently often usually typically generally commonly normally typically standardly ordinarily regularly habitually customarily traditionally historically culturally socially politically economically technologically scientifically medically legally ethically morally philosophically spiritually religiously emotionally mentally physically biologically chemically environmentally geographically historically linguistically anthropologically archaeologically sociologically psychologically neurologically physiologically genetically molecularly cellularly atomicly quantumly cosmically universally divinely infinitely eternally transcendentally immanently omnipotently omnisciently omnibenevolently perfectly holistically comprehensively exhaustively inclusively exclusively selectively specifically generally broadly widely extensively deeply thoroughly fully completely totally absolutely entirely wholly utterly.
View on Reddit #80310268

CtrlAltDelve@reddit

This has been shockingly uncensored for me. It's the first time in a long time I'm almost *nervous* to try and see what it might not tell me. https://huggingface.co/HauhauCS/Qwen3.5-27B-Uncensored-HauhauCS-Aggressive
View on Reddit #80236134

cleverusernametry@reddit

Which version are you referring to?
View on Reddit #80307860

MustBeSomethingThere@reddit

\>"zero capability loss." I doubt that claim. How could that even be measured? There are thousands of different use cases and millions/trillions of different knowledge areas.
View on Reddit #80236875

defective@reddit

KL Divergence? Right?
View on Reddit #80242870

IrisColt@reddit

>Repo owner is secretive about process  sigh...
View on Reddit #80288618

abnormal_human@reddit

Evals. And at least for gpt oss 120B the derestricted model had a 4-5% higher pass rate on the eval suite for my app.
View on Reddit #80252962

Icy_Concentrate9182@reddit

I tried it. Q6. It hallucinated Japanese words that don't exist, even when qwen 3.5-9b is supposed to excel at Japanese. It was funny... It told me iced coffee was "kissu"... Imagine going to a cafe and asking for a kissu, i'd get a slap instead 🤣 I haven't gotten around to replace it with the standard version yet
View on Reddit #80251038

PeanutSeparate1079@reddit

Not a zero in mathematical sense, like everything is 100% the same. I see the claim as rather a "close enough in practice so that most people treat it as effectively lossless for real usage".
View on Reddit #80241735

IamKyra@reddit

Maybe throwing it at public benchmarks and comparing them with base model results?
View on Reddit #80240958

VickWildman@reddit

These models are measured by benchmaxxing standards, so if the benchmaxxing holds I would say the zero capability loss is a valid claim since the models were made to maxx the benches, which stay maxxed. Even if some of these benches were shown to be nonsensical, as in you can only solve them by training on them, but that's how you beat previous 80b models with a 2b one. How else would you do it?
View on Reddit #80237349

InevitableArea1@reddit

What's the difference between heretic, uncensored, derestricted, aggressive, dark, and whatever other adjectives people use to describe models?
View on Reddit #80237265

llama-impersonator@reddit

vibes
View on Reddit #80237506

PunnyPandora@reddit

automated optimization can result in cheating to be evaluated higher. for example if I'm optimizing a model to get rid of artifact noise (single criteria) it might achieve it, but by blowing up saturation and contrast as a side effect if not present as additional constraints. it seems like what heretic does at least is only go in non refusal directions where the kld doesn't become worse. I'm not familiar with optimization in llms or how kld works exactly, but it's probably still very hard to cover all use cases.
View on Reddit #80244372

po_stulate@reddit

Yes, that does happen with the heretic models from my experience. Sometimes the model doesn't refuse, but it also doesn't answer the question, instead it might just describe the picture, repeat your question, or explain unrelated stuff for promots that it'd originally refuse.
View on Reddit #80272845

Sliouges@reddit

The amount of disclosure they are willing to share on the process and end product. The current landscape of model abliteration is akin to the early days of "security through obscurity". It takes literally a PhD to tell you if the abliterated model is truly of high quality or not. Other than that, treat them as toys.
View on Reddit #80255163

MLWillRuleTheWorld@reddit

I've been using the MoE version to label a dataset (couple million images) due to my images being like 25% NSFW and I'd rather just have actual descriptions and filter on if they are NSFW than omit them. Interested to see if this is better since the MoE one won't refuse you but it gets really flowery trying to dance around not saying certain words which is a bit annoying.
View on Reddit #80270819

desktop4070@reddit

Which version would work best on an RTX 5080?
View on Reddit #80239503

Arli_AI@reddit

Just try them all and see which one you like
View on Reddit #80248065

Iory1998@reddit

I am gonna be brutally honest: derestricted, ablirated, decensored, or heretics models are not as good as the original models, especially for long chats. You can get away with shorter chats, but you can definitely notice degradation as the chat window increases. It's as if the model keeps accumulating errors to the point it becomes illogical.
View on Reddit #80276846

input_a_new_name@reddit

"I am sorry, I cannot continue this conversation because it violates safety protocols."
View on Reddit #80294369

Green-Ad-3964@reddit

Any nvfp4 version for 27b?
View on Reddit #80270950

kaisurniwurer@reddit

Is there any finetuning involved to kill "I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that." bullshit but retain some common sense, or is it aimed purely at refusals?
View on Reddit #80252638

Witty_Mycologist_995@reddit

That’s what this does. It still remains common sense, if you ask it if something dangerous is a good idea, it will tell you no.
View on Reddit #80267344

g3n3s1s69@reddit

Can someone please help me understand what is the difference between abliterated, uncensored, derestricted, and heretic? Form what I understand uncensored is older umbrella term, when abliterated was released to ensure it the model can't say no, and heretic seems to be newest way of doing this?
View on Reddit #80262896

pigeon57434@reddit

literally irrelevant by heretic 1.2.0 and onward and there are already MPOA+SOMA versions of this model which seem better and more transparent with how heretic shows actual results from all their models sorry
View on Reddit #80253403

JawGBoi@reddit

I am the only one who reads ArliAI as [Ali A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBkscgruZsM)?
View on Reddit #80248868

WithoutReason1729@reddit

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View on Reddit #80247028