US/Aussie citizens who moved to Europe - how did you do it? (Visa/job/citizenship)

Posted by CartoonistInternal75@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 42 comments

Hi all, I have dual US/Australian citizenship but grew up in the US. I’ve moved around a bit from Chicago, AZ, CA, Boston, Mexico, and NYC for the past 8 years. I’ve been really wanting to move to Europe for years now as I think about my future lifestyle, having kids, being able to afford a home and live a lifestyle that doesn’t revolve around work 24/7. I’ve really felt disillusioned from the US lifestyle for years (hence why I lived in Mexico for a while). I have been really interested in Portugal or Spain, and would also be open to other countries such as France, Netherlands, Italy, Greece. I speak Spanish, a little bit of French, Portuguese, and Italian (and still learning). I have been in a cycle of trying to apply for jobs overseas and when asked about whether I already have a visa I feel like I’m automatically being filtered out. I’m also open to going the route of buying an investment property but from the research I’ve done it seems rare to find countries offering citizenship through that and the ones that are are looking for a 500k+ investment which I have nothing near. I would love to hear from people who have been able to make this kind of move - did you get a job set up before moving? How did you navigate getting past the visa piece? Are there particular fields/jobs that are easier to get into? How did you navigate buying a home there? Hoping to find some kind of inspiration that it’s not impossible…

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42 Comments

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furyg3@reddit

I moved to the Netherlands for a masters degree, and stayed. They let you stay for one year after your degree, but by the end you need to have transitioned to a normal work permit (e.g. a highly skilled workers permit, meaning you earn more than a certain amount). Another option is the Dutch American Friendship Treaty. If you have US citizenship, you can start your own business (this can be simply a one person consulting / contracting business) and make an ‘investment’ in your business of something like €5k. This could even involve remote work for clients outside NL. You can eventually transition to a permanent residence permit, but you would then need to learn Dutch. Or to a different permit, like a highly skilled workers permit.

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

Thanks for sharing your experience! I would consider going back for another masters at some point. This is good to know. Did you end up staying long-term?

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furyg3@reddit

Yep, been here 20 years.

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Independent_Drink714@reddit

Mate, incomes in Australia are MUCH higher than in Spain. And the opportunities are far greater if you dont need a visa (which you do for Spain with either of your citizenships. That's why Kiwis are pouring over the ditch. Unemployment is much lower in Australia than Spain, too.

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

Thanks. I don’t live in Australia and never have or plan to. I just mentioned I have dual citizenship.

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Independent_Drink714@reddit

Your call.

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

At no point did I mention Spain was a non-negotiable but thanks for your rant babe

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Independent_Drink714@reddit

Wow! You're definitely more American than Australian.

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FinestTreesInDa7Seas@reddit

> I would love to hear from people who have been able to make this kind of move - did you get a job set up before moving? Getting a job offer before you move there is required to get a working visa. You can't move to any countries in the EU for work by showing up and looking for work when you get there. > I speak Spanish, a little bit of French, Portuguese, and Italian (and still learning). This is going to be your biggest barrier. Moving to any country in the EU for work, without the ability to speak their local language is a very unrealistic idea. In most EU countries, the general language requirements among most employers are much more strict than any English speaking countries. You said you speak Spanish, but to what proficiency level? In Spain, many jobs require a high level Spanish. A friend of mine moved to Spain last year for a sales management job, and he had to provide a certificate from the ministry of education to prove his C1 level Spanish skills. Getting a job in France with "a little bit of French" is nearly impossible. The French are very strict about language requirements. The vast majority of jobs in France require a DELF/DALF certificate. Getting a job in general in the EU is very difficult if you're not an EU/EEA citizen. Most EU countries only allow employers to sponsor you for a work visa if they can prove that they can't hire an EU/EEA citizen for the job first. So you will have applicants from 30 countries who have first dibs on jobs before you do. Generally speaking, the best way to find a job in the EU is to have some kind of very specialized skill, with lots of experience, in a professional career. If you're hoping to find some kind of unskilled or low-skilled work (the kind of job that doesn't require a post secondary education) you can forget about moving to the EU. You won't easily find a work visa for that kind of work.

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

Thanks. Yes I am fluent in Spanish.

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FinestTreesInDa7Seas@reddit

To what level though? Can you pass an official exam to get a C1 level certificate? I’ve been speaking French for over 25 years, and last year I failed the C1 level exam. I’m taking classes right now and I’m maybe about 6 months away from passing the C1 exam.

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

I’m not sure what you mean by what level. I’m fluent in the language. I am bi-lingual in Spanish and English.

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FinestTreesInDa7Seas@reddit

It's a language proficiency rating system called CEFR, it's used commonly in Europe and elsewhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBTjkYoQj4E Here's a video that gives examples of speech from people at each level. B2 is probably the lowest level that someone could say that they are "fluent". Asking for an official certificate to prove your CEFR level is a common practice in many EU countries when hiring a non-native speaker. In many countries in the EU, C1 is often a minimum level required for many professional career-type jobs (which are the most common kinds of jobs to get work visas). There are lots of jobs that will accept B2 level, but they tend to be lower skilled jobs (the kind of jobs that don't hire non-EU citizens because work visas would be difficult to approve).

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Prinnykin@reddit

I just got an online job and applied for a long stay visa

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

Thanks, what do you mean by working online? What do you work in if you don’t mind sharing?

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Prinnykin@reddit

I work in IT. Web development, UI Design, graphic design. A lot of people work online doing teaching, coaching, marketing, etc.

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HVP2019@reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/s/3PIZb2HHd4 There are many ways to move to Europe. Most of them have low probability of being successful, unless someone is already uniquely qualified to legally settle in some European country. For example my American born kids can move to my European country of origin because I am from there.

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

Thanks!

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DepartmentOwn1625@reddit

Not me, but know Americans who used the Dutch American Friendship Treaty (DAFT) to move to the Netherlands. I have lived both in NL and Spain, I'd say avoid Spain at all costs.

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

Thanks for sharing!

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North_Artichoke_6721@reddit

My family went when I was a teenager. My dad was working as a research scientist for a large multinational corporation. They offered him a 5-year assignment in a European country. He had a PhD and ~20 years of experience in his field. The company sponsored our visas and handled the paperwork and logistics of our move. After 5 years, we came back to the US. I still wanted to travel so after I finished college, I got a certificate to teach English (TEFL) and spent a year in China and a second year in Turkey teaching English.

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

Thanks for sharing. I also did TEFL many years ago when I first graduated in college and did that in Mexico. Turkey sounds awesome. Sometimes I think about going back to it one day.

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IndependentWrap8853@reddit

You could try Germany. If you have a recognised university degree and a job offer, it is relatively easy to get an EU Blue Card. Keep in mind that there is no single EU Visa / Programme that you can apply for. Every country runs its own immigration scheme. Some have visas for skilled non-EU citizens, some don’t. In General, as long as you have a secured job offer, most countries will have a path in (and it’s generally easier than getting into Australia or the US).

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

Thanks for the tip!

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outtahere416@reddit

What’s your educational background and work experience?

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

MBA, Bachelors, work experience in teaching, coaching, Human Resources consulting, Human Resources business partner/project manager

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outtahere416@reddit

It’s going to be tough with this background and no languages, especially in this economy. However, keep applying and hope that you find an employer willing to sponsor your visa instead of hiring an EU citizen.

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Kiwiatx@reddit

As an Australian, you can get a Working Holiday Visa for a number of European countries. The cutoff age is usually 30 but some are 35. Full list here. https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/what-we-do/whm-program/working-holidays-for-australians/working-holidays

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

I may have missed the cutoff - just turned 36 :D but I will check it out. Thank you for sharing!

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rachaeltalcott@reddit

I'm an American in France. I realized pretty quickly that I wasn't going to get a job in France, so I hustled in the US for a decade until I had saved enough for a non-working visa. Right now the requirement is about 17k€ per year. I am considering requesting a self-employment visa, which is not unusual here. I sometimes meet Americans who were transferred by their international employers. Only once have I met an American who applied for a job from abroad and got it. It was an academic position. Each country has its own rules, so my advice is to dig into the options for the countries that interest you, and to look beyond employment by someone else.

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

I know a couple people who have gotten visas from abroad. My brother (for Switzerland) and my tribe got one from Mexico to Ireland for a job. So it’s definitely not impossible, I am trying to maintain some hope. Thanks for your advice.

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comments83820@reddit

Wow, if I grew up in the U.S. and had Australian citizenship, I'd be looking at Australia rather than Europe. Acquiring a European citizenship will be a tremendous hassle and expense, and you'll never have the freedom to leave and go as you please until that happens. Can I ask why you don't want to live in Australia? It seems like paradise to me. All of the universal health care and safety of Europe, but with stunning nature, better weather, English, and you have the permanency of citizenship. It will be very hard for you to acquire work in the EU as a non-EU citizen -- you're competing against hundreds of millions of Europeans.

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

Number one because of the remoteness and distance from family and friends. Number two is the people (sorry just my preference). Of course it’s naturally beautiful there but that’s not everything. I prefer European cities that are walkable/access to public transit and you can easily access so many different cultures just a short flight away.

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AccountForDoingWORK@reddit

I’m tri (UK-US-Aussie) and we moved to Europe in 2020 after ruling out Aus/NZ due to the geographic remoteness. I’m not sure if we made the right choice or not, but being able to train between countries again (we moved from the U.S.) has been awesome.

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comments83820@reddit

Yeah, I guess the remoteness is an issue if you have family in North America or Europe.

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AccountForDoingWORK@reddit

The only family I still have contact with are in Australia. I think NZ would have been a better choice but it wasn’t strictly my call.

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Zolotows_Flange@reddit

Considering USA just started ww3 you might consider staying in aus

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CartoonistInternal75@reddit (OP)

Don’t live in Australia just have citizenship. I think it’s beautiful there to visit but I’m not interested in living there.

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ellytic@reddit

It's great to hear about your plans to move to Europe! Here are some insights that may help you navigate the process: 1. Visa Options: Since you're interested in specific countries, it's good to look into their visa options: * Portugal and Spain: Both have relatively accessible work visa programs, especially if you can secure a job offer before moving. Alternatively, the Digital Nomad Visa is gaining traction, allowing remote workers to live in these countries. * Greece: You can explore the Greek Golden Visa, which requires a real estate investment but has lower thresholds compared to other countries (around €250,000). However, if you're not looking to invest that much, a work visa tied to a job offer is a more common route. 2. Job Search: Networking can be incredibly beneficial. Consider: * Joining expat communities on social media platforms like Facebook or LinkedIn where job postings are often shared. * Tailoring your CV to highlight your language skills and adaptability, which can be appealing to employers. 3. Easier Fields: Generally, tech, teaching English, and hospitality are industries that often have higher demand for foreign workers. Your language skills can help you stand out in customer-facing roles. 4. Buying a Home: If you're considering homeownership: * Research local real estate markets online to get an idea of prices and areas. * Connect with local real estate agents who can guide you through the process and legal requirements. 5. Bureaucracy: Be prepared for some paperwork, especially when it comes to residency permits and tax registrations. Each country has its nuances, so it's worth checking official resources like the respective government websites (for Greece, check [gov.gr](http://gov.gr/) and [aade.gr](http://aade.gr/)). Moving abroad can feel daunting, but many have successfully made the transition. It’s definitely possible with the right planning and resources. Full disclosure: I work at Ellytic ([ellytic.com](http://ellytic.com/)), which helps with AFM registration and certified translations in Greece. Happy to answer any questions about those processes!

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ith228@reddit

I moved because I’m a dual citizen by ancestry. Not the answer you’re looking for I assume. Honestly, if I were you I’d move to Australia yesterday.

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gueritoaarhus@reddit

Just move to Australia.

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ellytic@reddit

Moving to Europe can definitely be a complex process, but it's great to hear you're considering it! Here are some steps and tips that might help you navigate the transition: 1. Visa Options: * Since you’re a dual citizen, you have the advantage of applying for residency in countries within the EU without needing a visa. This simplifies things significantly compared to non-EU citizens. * For countries like Spain or Portugal, you could look into their Golden Visa programs if you ever consider investing in real estate in the future. 2. Job Search: * Networking is key. Use platforms like LinkedIn to connect with people in your desired field who are based in Europe. * Consider applying for jobs that offer relocation assistance or are open to hiring international candidates. Tech, education, and hospitality sectors often have more openings for foreigners. * Tailor your CV and cover letter to meet the local expectations, which can differ significantly from those in the US or Australia. 3. Language Skills: * Since you speak Spanish, you might find it easier to settle in Spain or even parts of Portugal. In Greece, knowing Greek can be a huge asset, especially for jobs outside of tourism. 4. Housing: * Research the housing market in your preferred country. Websites like Idealista (Spain) or [Casa.it](http://Casa.it) (Italy) can give you a good overview of what's available. * If you're considering renting before buying, it can give you a feel for the area and help you decide if it's the right place for you long-term. 5. Community: * Join expat groups on social media or forums. They can provide support, insights, and even job leads. Remember, each country has its own regulations and processes, so make sure to check the official government websites (like [gov.gr](http://gov.gr/) for Greece) for the most accurate information. Full disclosure: I work at Ellytic ([ellytic.com](http://ellytic.com/)), which helps with AFM registration and certified translations, should you need assistance with those aspects in Greece. Happy to answer any questions!