I just went to Cadillac’s site and built a manual CT5V Blackwing with the $18K precision package which gives you the carbon brakes, and the $27K Deep Ocean Package which gives you all the interior and exterior carbon fiber goodies…total was $148K. Add another few grand for a few of the smaller options if you want.
I’m a Mustang fanboi, but holy fuck Ford, what is you doing bby? A C8 Z06 or fully loaded precision pack Blackwing are both such better deals and likely cheaper than that totally-not-a GT500.
> I’m a Mustang fanboi, but holy fuck Ford, what is you doing bby?
I guess because the Mustang has no competition from Dodge and Chevy anymore, they're testing the waters to see how far they can get away with pricing. But yeah, so many other good cars for the same money that get you more than a pony car.
I’m sure that plays a big role, but I think it’s just Ford getting greedy. They kept raising the price of the Broncos so much that they had to go and drop the BRaptor price back down.
Loaded CT5 Blackwings are a terrible deal. What you should mention is that a base Blackwing with upgraded seats only is all you need and is cheaper than this Mustang and you have a more unique vehicle with a supercharged V8 and a manual.
They don't build many of these Blackwings but you can still get allocations at the higher volume dealers over the next two months.
I believe they are dead in August as 2026 is the final model year so you have until May to get an order in at a high volume dealer and you should get one.
I mean I wouldn’t want that spec, that was just the easiest way to load the price up. Get one with just the carbon packs and price is similar. There are a few of them sitting on lots across the country.
C7 stingray over a base 5.0 is the easiest choice, if were starting to different variations of the same cars, a Z06 C7 is an easy choice over a Shelby or mach 1
The C7 sure, but I driven the C8 Stingray and it’s in no way a funner car to drive than an s550 imo. The C8 was one of the most numb sports car I’ve ever driven, has an extremely disappointing exhaust note stock, and lacked any sort of edge. It like driving in a video game.
Both have been compared head to head in reviews, and it comes down to what you prefer for fun factor. What I’m saying is that the answer isn’t always Corvette. Clearly there is a market for these high priced Mustangs.
The models I tested were the Mach-1 and Grand Sport. Grand Sport was faster and more agile. However, the Mach-1 was less numb and more eager to break the rear loose. It comes down to what you prefer.
The models I tested were the Mach-1 and Grand Sport. Grand Sport was faster and more agile. However, the Mach-1 was less numb and more tail happy. I enjoyed it more on public roads.
The Mach 1 was the best compromise. All the goodies from the GT350/500 but with the Coyote which is a tried and true platform. The GT350 does sound better but the reliability concerns are what kill me.
Mach 1s are so cool. I keep thinking about getting one, but it'd mean going from two fun slow cars to one very fast kinda expensive one. Not sure I want to lose the variety in my garage yet.
I had one, and it was underwhelming IMO.
The steering feel in both S650 and S550 are quite terrible. The highlight was the tremec and the V8. Otherwise, the build quality is meh, and it's quite boaty feeling for the class of cars it's in. Also, changing the oil on the Coyote was a PITA (who decided the oil filter should live behind the EPAS harness).
I also had an NC miata before moving onto the Mach 1. I don't think you are missing out. (If you want fast V8 american coupe, go to GM for their chassis dynamics)
Size and "nimbleness" is what's held me back from getting a car in that class. I'm not a fast enough driver to take advantage of the Mustang's performance over my NC's on track (because let's be real here, I can't extract every ounce of performance out of the NC), and on the street I generally prefer smaller/lighter cars.
Someone at my office has one and I envy him every time I hear it start up and rip out of the office I do feel a bit of envy haha
With the consideration of track (or even just a few HPDE a year), the miata/gr86 twin shines. Consumables are another level when every tire on the car is in the 300 size range, 10 qt of oil, and way more expensive brake pads.
If I have a 3-car garage, a V8 cruiser to go around town, and for me to row gear and hear the V8 would be great.
Coming from a Miata, anything short of a Lotus will feel "boaty". I think most people who take the Mustang over the Camaro do it because you can see out of the Mustang, and the Coyote engine has a character that the LS engines just don't have - they rev the fuck out. *Especially* the Voodoo.
Mustang is certainly a more usable car than the Camaro in many ways, and I do agree the high-revving Coyote/Voodoo is more exciting than the LTs. I have more bias for handling and chassis feel over drivetrain (I can't complain if I have either a Coyote or an LT.)
I was interested in the GT350 for a long time, especially mach 1 money is in the ballpark for a used one. If I weren't afraid of the Voodoo shaking itself apart, and had a chance to test drive one, I might have gone for it.
In terms of the next car from Miata, I actually think the MkV Supra is one of the best handling cars in that speed/price range. The turn-in is extremely sharp. I have yet to test drive a cayman but I am surprised by how the Supra feels. Steering isn't great, but miles ahead of the S550.
Yeah, you're an unusual case - most Mustang/Camaro buyers are not coming from Miatas and Caymans, they're coming from *older* Mustangs or "regular" cars or trucks. And to those people, the Mustang may as well be a damn Ferrari for how it handles, especially the last two gens.
When you buy a car based on how it makes you feel, the Mustang makes a lot of sense. Amazing V8, manual transmission, looks are iconic pony/muscle car, and people *like* it. Objectively the Camaro chassis is better in many ways, but on the street when you can't see out of the fucking car that stresses me out, and that makes it hard to actually enjoy driving the car, especially when I want to go fast. On track it matters less - there are no surprises, the corners are always in the same place, and people know how to drive and where to position themselves. On the street you need to be able to see!
Personally don’t have a problem with the steering. Always felt overblown. Just get bigger tires and stiffer suspension/sway bars than stock. Also makes it feel less boaty.
Moved from an ND to a Mach 1
I absolutely adored my ND but after our second kid my wife gave me endless shit about it (to the point it became a really sore subject) so I ended up trading the ND in for a new Mach
I still have the Mach (and the wife and kids). My buddy also has a ND and I drive his from time to time. Really different cars and different purposes/experiences. I tell people driving the Mach is like having a conversation- you listen to the engine and shift off that; it's very engaging. Only downside is it has so much power it's a short conversation. Handling is also superb but there's no hiding the extra 1.6k lbs. Steering on the ND is also more engaging. And of course there is the entire convertible thing.
Bummer about the Miata! You have a great garage now.
I came super close to buying an ND2 after my S2000 had a catastrophic engine failure a few years ago, but found a cheap NC2 with some great mods (roll bar and front/rear BBK) that I couldn't say no to.
And a clutch. The DSG can handle the extra power from a tune, but the OEM clutch on the manual starts slipping with most stage 1 tunes.
I’ll probably do a stage one tune anyways, once I’m done setting up the NC track car. The warranty on the GTI expired today so it’s ready to be messed with haha
I don't know how you meant "email" to be interpreted there, but I choose to believe you're emailing your car directly and saying "hello car yes please go faster"
I've been pondering getting an ND and replicating your garage, albeit one generation newer for both; space is the main issue right now (living in the city makes 2 cars hard). I'm jealous!
\*Post 2018. The GT350 and GT350R were both updated SIGNIFICANTLY for the 2019 and 2020 model years.
[https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/list-of-changes-to-the-2019-gt350.136944/](https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/list-of-changes-to-the-2019-gt350.136944/)
Most of the changes was to the manufacturing process to streamline production of the GT500s engine and make the Voodoo and Predator be the same block.
Also the changes do nothing to resolve the inherent problem which is the excessive NVH caused by multiple reasons
I'm sorry to hear your 2020 blew up as I love hearing my LR scream, but your claim is false, the changes to the Gen 2 Voodoo were much than just manufacturing streamlining... Here is an exhaustive list of the mechanical changes confirmed by Ford that were done to ***improve*** (not ***resolve,*** as this is impossible for all flat-plane crankshafts (see Ferrari)) vibration and oil-consumption issues found with the Gen 1 Voodoo:
* Additional cylinder bore material surrounding the water jackets
* Added cast in brace on intake side of cylinder bore
* "Bay to Bay" Breathing ports reorientated to better equalize block gasses and minimize windage
* Additional material around cylinder head water jackets for better sealing
* Stronger valve seat material to handle increased heat
* 4 Layer MLS head gasket
* GT350R Timing Chains
* GT350R Lash adjusters
* GT350R Cam covers
* GT350R VCT mechanisms
* Improved I-beam connecting rods
* Forged crank sprocket
* Copper-lead bearings
* Resized piston-cooling jets
* Improved oil pump with larger stronger gerotor gear
* Upgraded exhaust valve seals
* Higher exhaust valve spring rate
* Improved Oil Pan, Oil Pickup, and Windage tray
* Improved Plasma Transferred Wire Arc process for the cylinder walls
* Improved Positive Crankcase Ventilation system
Literally none of that reduces NVH on FPC a V8 or improves the reliability of it. The firing order is still out of wack, and it still has unequal exhuast headers.
As mentioned before most of those changes were done mostly for the GT500, not exactly the GT350. They changed the piston rings to address the oil burning which helped but still burning a half quart within 1,000 miles or something like that was "within normal limits" per the owners manual. This discussion was had ad nasuem on Mustang 6 back in 2020 so I remember when all of this information was new and the consensus wasn't that the changes were significantly as people still had their engines blowing up.
So if you want to believe that they made it bulletproof fine. I made 4 friends from the forums when I got mine and all 4 of us had our engines go and had multiple issues. 3 of us tracked it and only 1 had it on street use. Its known know that engine design isn't great and a ticking timebomb especially with track use. So just enjoy while you can
Last year when the 5 year powertrain ran out I saw the writing on the wall.
I’m sorry you do not understand mechanical engineering or do not have the capability/time read and understand how the changes do in fact help with the flat-plane crank vibrations (& oil consumption issues). Your claim that improvements benefit both the Predator and Voodoo means nothing in your argument as the predator began it’s life as an evolution of the Gen 1 Voodoo…
I made it pretty clear that these changes did not resolve the issue, just improved it. Thanks for your hearsay though!
Yeah, the car with a starting MSRP before options of $330,000 can sorta almost hang within 1 second of the $175,000 MSRP ZR1. What a performance bargain!
Yes? I feel like you're arguing a point here, but we already agree. My original reply to this post states that the DHSC MSRP is within spitting distance of a ZR1, which is insanity. Much like the original comment says, you'd have to have a room temperature IQ to go with the Mustang here.
If you're really looking for a bargain, a savvy buyer could probably get a new 2025 Z06 for under $100k. Supply has caught up w demand, and these things are sitting on dealer lots.
There actually are some z06 l1Zs (both 2025 and 2026) listed on cars com for under $110k. The ones I saw listed closer to $100k we're doing Google link bait and switch, where is says z06 l1Z on Google, then you click it and it's actually an eray 1lz.
Yeah looks like it's possible to get a 1lz coupe around $108k now. That's a crazy deal, must be under invoice. Makes the mustang look like even worse value.
Honestly more important than the blind spot warning is the rear view mirror camera system.
The rear view mirror is genuinely useless as an actual mirror. Technically you can see a little postage stamp view through the engine bay using it as a mirror, but you can’t see anything but tall vehicles using it unless they’re only feet away from your bumper.
That said, the rear view camera display on the mirror is brilliant and actually leaves you with only small blind spots on each side.
Remember you can now get Z06s at a discount. A Z07 package Z06 is cheaper than a Dark Horse SC with track pack in the real world and the Z06 will probably lap faster and both are the same DCT inherently.
Eh, the driving experience isn't a spec sheet.
I'm sure there are muscle car buyers that would prefer a supercharged V8 over a higher revving NA V8, especially since the Predator is pretty bulletproof while the C8 Z06 has had some engine issues. They will probably release a manual version at some point to distinguish it further as well.
Don't get me wrong, it definitely seems that Ford is price gouging since they are the only game left in town after the Camaro died and Dodge botched the launch of the new Charger. The equivalent S550 models were noticeably less expensive, even when adjusted for inflation, but the joke is on them since the S650 has been a sales flop as a result. I'm curious to see how Ford will respond but I suspect they'll just keep the S650 limping along as their halo car while their trucks and SUVs make all the real money.
1000 hp track cars that 98% of normal people don’t have the first clue how to drive and can’t handle, built by two companies who can’t spell reliability vs a JDM legend that I can build to my standards, exactly how I want and that will turn heads everywhere because Mustangs and Corvettes are normal in the US but GTR’s are not. Yeah, I’ll stick with JDM thanks.
C8 isn't what I'd call beautiful although certain color and trim combos hit it just right.
The mustang though? Why is the GT still far and away the best looking s650. This DHSC is fugly. Looks like a bad custom job that couldn't figure out how to mount grille mesh to a knock off bumper cover.
My only issues with the C8 are the massive blind spots and the interior layout. Other than that, it is a freaking amazing car and I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I was looking for another midengine.
Huh? There were a grand total of two Transformers that turned into Corvettes in the movies. Meanwhile, Bumblebee got a brand new Camaro model every single movie. It was clear the Camaro got top billing over the Corvette.
The wide body looks much better. A more complete design. Looks like that is how it was supposed to be and they worked backwards and chopped 4 inches off the widebody.
In general, it's interesting how much a wide body can change most cars.
The c8 looks way better, 911's look good, 240-260-280-300z's look amazing. I'm sure the list goes on
It has a touch of GTA-car syndrome, yes, but that doesn't make it bad-looking; just a bit generic. Which is not a problem exclusive to the Corvette in this world with McLaren's 72 nearly identical V8 supercars, the 2nd generation R8 that looks like someone took all the legally distinct details away from a first gen R8, the NSX that looks so much like a GTA car that I'm pretty sure its GTA version is just an NSX, and the four? new Ferraris that all have a square wedge front and a Hamburglar mask for some reason.
The problem with the Z06 (and ZR1) is how wide the rear end has to be to fit golf clubs. I know it has to be that wide so GM can actually sell vehicles, but it's still an ugly car at the rear.
The rear end looks very blocky on the Stingray due to that, but I feel like the Z06 widebody along with the center exhaust fixes that. I’m not going to call it a beautiful rear end, but I think it’s nice.
I tried to find Canadian pricing but couldnt. I imagine it will be in the 130k range to start up here which is nuts when a Caddy Sedan also with a supercharged V8 costs 118k to start with all the extra Caddy luxury features.
No chance, the Mustang looks great but it looks like a car (and not as good as the previous gen)
The Vette finally looks decently good, probably because proportions are better with mid-engine and also more curves, rather than triangles with the C7
My buddy wanted a GT500 but hated the markups. I assumed that since this is a no name but is basically the same as the outgoing GT500 that he could probably get it for whatever the last gen GT500 MSRP'd at after inflation because who wants to buy a car like this with no name recognition.
Ford said nope and now he isn't interested. Not unless they get large discounts but since they are following the GT500 allocation playbook, I doubt that will happen.
Good God there's a guy at my job site who has a tuned up Dark Horse with various Ford Performance stickers on it. He'll probably be first in line for this thing
They must have drunk the kool aid around the GTD and assumed because there were buyers for that, the darkhorse sc could move up in price. Its much less of a departure from the mustang than the GTD was. The track pack makes some really questionable choices price wise- CCB and CF wheel both are stupid expensive for what you get. These will probably go on heavy discount once the very few buyers get fleeced on ADM for the first few months.
When I was talking about how the Camaro being discontinued wasn’t a win for Mustang fans or for the Mustang brand, this is what I meant.
It’ll be underwhelming for the money until actual domestic competition that Mustang buyers will shop enters the market again.
At 176k you are at almost C8 ZR1 price category and we know even the Mustang GTD had no chance against it. I think Ford is insane pricing their cars this high with not enough performance to back it up. I will be most likely trading in my very low miles 2022 camaro 2ss 1le manual for the upcoming C8 Grandsport with 6.7lt ls6.
So $100K+ prediction is happening, 4400lbs (2 metric tons) also very likely, what would be a good third prediction hat trick? Maybe some kind of so-so handling trait.
Over $100k for a Mustang is wild. At that price you’re competing with cars like the **Chevrolet Corvette Z06**, which already offers insane performance. Hard to see this as the “affordable V8 performance” Mustang used to represent.
That's a retarded ask. I figured if a Dark Horse started at \~$60k, that this would be $75-85k, then maybe $100-110k for the track pack.
You can buy a LOT of performance for $108,000, both new and used. I don't know why you'd decide that this car is the one worthy of those bucks. And this coming from a guy who has owned one and always been warm towards the Mustang. Even then, I'd be putting a deposit down on a Z06.
I don't see this selling to anyone but the most die-hard of Mustang fan.
You can literally buy a GT with a $10.5k package of a factory installed whipple that doesn’t void warranty. Shit, put another 5k into a suspension and bigger and fatter tires. 99% of people buying these aren’t even tracking them. There you go, a 700-800hp mustang for literally half the price of these.
The top trim Mustangs (Cobra Jet 428, GT500, GT350, etc) were all sub $5k in 1969, which equates to roughly $44k today.
You can get a base Mustang GT for roughly that price, and it will do everything better than any of the 1969 mustangs. Faster, better handling, better traction management, modern comforts, safety, anti-corrosion, and emissions.
Maximizing modern engineering potential has its costs, and the GT500 would laugh in the face of any 1960s Mustang. Though admittedly this rings hollow when it’s just a copy paste of the S550 GT500. I am very curious to see (if it does return) how much a Hellcat Charger will cost.
Lmao I would hope a new car is better than something 50+ years old, that’s nothing to be proud of.
A 1969 Ferrari 365 GTC went for roughly $20,000, or $177,000 today. This is an insane price for a Mustang any way you spin it.
>Because saying the base car is 10k dollars more expensive than an inflation adjusted base GT500 doesn’t induce the same amount of rage.
2022 GT500 - MSRP $77,175 (*including* $2600 gas guzzler tax, excluding $1195 destination fee)
- True Base MSRP: $74,575
- Total Base Price w/ taxes and fees: $78,370
- Initial arrival ~Aug ‘22
- Base MSRP adj. for inflation: $81,898
- Total Base Price adj. for inf.: $86,460
- Source: can’t link due to Reddit automod, just google it)
2022 Dark Horse SC - MSRP $103,490 (*excluding* $3000 gas guzzler tax and $1995 destination fee)
- True Base MSRP: $103,490
- Total Base Price w/ taxes and fees: $108,485
True base MSRP delta: $28,915
- Total Base Price w/ fee delta: $30,115
So let’s talk about that little 10k difference you were mentioning
Your quoting C&D’s price which includes fees and excluding the fees on the Dark Horse SC because you don’t bother to read the article which states it clearly as day
You can find the 2022’s actual pricing with google but since you can’t bother to read the article to this actual post here’s [motor trend’s source backing up the $77k MSRP](https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang-shelby-gt500)
Or you could just reread my post and understand it’s a 30k gap
You’re always paying the gas guzzler tax and destination. A 2022 GT500 is about 93.5k in today’s money. Alright so add on the 3k gas guzzler tax and 2k destination to the cost of the Dark Horse SC, the difference is 15k and you’re claiming double that
The part where you subtract 86.5k (which I don’t agree with but whatever) from 108.5k and claim it’s 30k when that should be 22k.
Did you use ChatGPT to write this?
Lmao I subtracted the wrong number
It’s a $22k difference foot in mouth on my end
But that’s still an absurd price hike for a 4 year gap on a near copy paste
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>All that is before the $3,000 Gas Guzzler Tax, the $1,995 Destination & Delivery Charges, and the inevitable dealer markups, which could easily push a Dark Horse SC Track Pack Special Edition into the $200,000 range.
Lunacy.
There’s a reason BMW is 5th, and Ford is 11th. I’ve owned a ford, never again.
[Who Makes the Most Reliable New Cars?](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/)
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Coyote based v8s are the most reliable v8 produced right now and probably in the last two decades.
People are making 1000hp on unopened engines and 3500+hp on built engines.
I just want to know what the hell happened to this so called Legend engine everyone was talking about a year ago...
When I saw the SC announced, I went out and bought a GT500 about 4 weeks later. I was hoping it getting a bespoke engine at the very least but Ford couldn't even do that.
You could get a 1000+ hp hypercar that beats a McLaren Senna and other million $ exotics around a track and is still a great daily driver at the same time - or, for the SAME price you could get a Mustang that is NOT the GTD ... That's some Prelude level pricing...
A BMW M4 Comp AWD is $88k...
Whatever. I just hope someone who likes and affords it buys it, so Ford can keep justify doing balls to the wall stuff. This is some cool shit we've been seeing lately from a lot of brands and I'm definitely here for that
Does Ford believe that there are bunches and bunches of pony car fan boys and girls who will pay anything for a new hot Mustang? Or are they just unable to build cars at scale and at a reasonable cost like GM has done with the Corvette? I've never been a Mustang fan so this pricing seems monumentally dumb
Let’s see, would you rather have a C8 Z06 with a race engine inside of it, a 1,064 horsepower base spec ZR1, or a likely 4300 lbs Mustang with a blower?
Remember that dealership I think it was in North Carolina?
You could get a S550 Mustang GT (it was a base spec tho) with a supercharger for around $40k
What a time it was
I don't know why anyone would want this for that price. If you want a V8 track toy, get the C8 Z06. If you want to show off a little, get a 911 Carrera.
And god help them if the GR GT lands anywhere near that price range.
The whole point of previous Mustangs was that they were cheap enough to drive and drive hard. It was fun, affordable car and they've been engineered for that. The pricing just doesn't make sense for these anymore. Like the Charger, the core demographic has been abandoned.
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