You can’t martyr the second leader the Islamic Republic of Iran has had in like 50 years of existence and then expect them to be willing to negotiate. Additionally the horrific destruction of the elementary school..
Furthermore, we started bombing them DURING NEGOTIATIONS, which further erodes their trust in any negotiations. And Israel would not be party to the negotiations, meaning a ceasefire may not apply to them.
Iran has the upper hand right now despite it having very little defense against US/Isr bombing and US/Isr air superiority, owing to the budding economic crisis as a result of the strait of Hormuz access denial and the attacks on gulf states oil and gas facilities
Just as a reminder, Iran-Iraq war dragged for almost a decade (which, as footnote, dragged for years because the US pumped Saddam with weapons) resulting in over 1 million Iranian deaths.
Nowadays there might be way many more Iranians against their government than in the 80s, but it makes hard to make a case for Iranian people to not defend their country when the countries that they have been claiming for almost 50 years that are out to invade and control and destroy for are, in fact, backstabbing them, controlling and destroying.
\> (which, as footnote, dragged for years because the US pumped Saddam with weapons)
I believe the real problem was not securing and/or destroying the depots because we went in with such a small force.
That's called thinly veiled threats, not negotiations lol. You know what using violence or the threat of violence to push for certain outcomes is called usually? Terrorism.
Not to mention how unreasonable this ask is. Like.. are you serious? Why should someone give up means to protect themselves from others who have renegged on deals before? What is to say they won't do that again against an adversary after they give up arms? Why should a nation give up arms to appease you in the first place, against the ones who bomb first AND mid negotiations?
so you are telling me a country can call for the destruction of other countries spend billions on proxies to attack said countries attack them itself and build an illegal nuke and the only acceptable course of action here is negotiations?
Few follow up questions to clarify:
So if a country signs a treaty, then does a thing that violates a treaty, another country can invade the other country and execute their leader? You used the word "allowed", and contrasted that with diplomacy, so I'm taking that to mean unilateral military action like what they are doing here, bombing, assassinations. If not, what specific actions are allowable?
Is it illegal because it is against international law, or because the treaty was ratified in domestic law, or both? Only certain types of treaties? From your perspective.
Did you look at what the US was actually "negotating" for?
I don't want to make any assumptions or misunderstand you here. My next response is going to be to point out how the US, does all these things to show the flaws in your justification, the one currently being used by the US as it unilaterally invades another country, while the CIA says there are no nukes, months after the white house said Iran would be unable to build nukes after US bombing. I just want to make sure I understand.
to your first question depends on the impotence of the treaty this one could be worth millions of lives or even a nuclear war.
idk if i am dumb or what but i don't see where i used the word allowed, but to answer your question in this case utterly destroy all nuclear infrastructure.
i mean they have a stock pile measured by IAEA of 440kg of 60% enriched so they are clearly able to get there.
Well the US is the only state to use nukes, and they have thousands of them, way more dangerous than anybody else. They have a long history of illegal invasions, both under international law and domestic law.
Is China entitled to assassinate US politicians and carpet bomb New York?
I worry about Iran too, but we can't resort to lawlessness like the US. US criminality for oil profit is why Iran is the way it is, when the US CIA overthrew the democratically elected leader to install a US-friendly dictator. Now that Israel/US have martyred Khameni, it looks impossible that this constant war approach will ever actually fix anything.
its different cause the US already has nukes you don't see anyone messing with north Korea.
i would ask you this if you were in the US situation what would you have done? has they clearly are not giving up on the nuclear plan.
What you are describing might makes right, a lawless world where the powerful exert their power unchecked. The US has nukes and gets to invade any country that doesn't. Do you think other countries get to unilaterally make and enforce laws in the US?
What would I do if I was the US? Stay in the JCPOA, it was a tremendous deal for the US. However, the US did not want diplomacy, they wanted war and violence, again, and again, and again...
This incentivizes people to make nukes, like North Korea, to avoid getting invaded by the US again. If someone bombed your kid's school and turned them into red mist, do you think you would want the security a nuke provides for your other kid? Of course you would.
Frankly, as long as the US has nukes is laughably hypocritical for it to condemn other countries for building then. If the US thinks nukes are bad, then it should push for reduction. It doesn't, it just wants to maintain nuclear hegemony. It's like Hitler complaining that the allies are making illegal tanks. Sorry Hitler, don't care what you think.
You stated that Iran is "clearly not giving up their nuclear plan". This is not true, and you don't seem to know the facts, or the history, Iran agreed to everything to avoid war. The axis of Epstein (Israel/US) was desperate for war. I going to copy paste a good comment that I read that can provide more information:
Much Pilot355
It's fucking insane how Iran already kowtower to US demands within the last decade. Just a cursory look at the timeline will drive you mad.
Obama signed the JCPOA and Iran kept its side of the commitment to a T. Relations were beginning to improve, then the fascist orange turd came and tore it up, applied maximum pressure by lobbying sanctions at them and Iran still kept to the deal unilaterally until Solemani was killed. A guy who they lured into a fake meeting then drone striked him like the pieces of shits that they are.
US lured them into fake negotiations last year despite making up its mind to attack Iran and destroy its nuclear sites. They partook in this sham negotiations, then launched a decapitating strike using their attack dog Israel as the spearhead to assassinate senior leaders, then dropped bunker busters on underground nuclear sites claiming to have ended the program (a total lie as we know). Then they lured them again into another BS negotiations while simultaneously having the biggest military buildup in the region since the Iraq war, already planning to carpet bomb the capital, kill the supreme leader and decapitate the entire government then install a puppet (or turning it into a failed state like the Libya example). program
absurdity The crazy thing is after ALL that the Iranians still played ball, engaging in good faith with the very slim chance of reaching a compromise despite the absurdity of the latest rounds of demands from the Trump administration, which essentially amounted to surrender of sovereignty and demilitarization of the country. Terms imposed on nations that declare unconditional surrender after Brutal wars and not good faith negotiations between two parties interested in peace and avoiding war.
And you know what's mind blowing?
IRAN STILL AGREED HOURS BEFORE THE ATTACK NOT TO ENRICH ANY URANIUM AND PROPOSED TO MOVE MOST OF THEIR 450 KG 60 ENRICHED MASS TO RUSSIA AS A FIRST STEP
Trump of course didn't give a crap because he already gave the green light months ago to start a regime toppling war. Fuck anyone who claims that Iranians wanted this war and didn't do anything to avoid it. They humiliated themselves over and over and took countless slaps to avert regional war with disastrous global consequences, and STILL the American empire came for them. Unfuckingbelivable
Now The US and its shitty little attack dog imposed a war of survival on the Iranian nation and are asking them to negotiate after all that. The absolute supremacist narcissism and shamelessness is off the fucking charts.
Iran realized that negotiations with the US and Israel is a lost cause. Something that's more dangerous than continuing a war that will destroy their country and the global economy. Inflicting huge damages on the empire is deemed more worthy of a goal goal to pursue than talking to them and get fooled by another strike and sanctions. They will never set on the table before putting the region on fire and sink the global economy, making the bloodthirsty war mongering pedo fascists in power pay dearly for their decisions. And no honest person at this stage can blame then. You have to wonder who moved them to such extent to think that the mere mention of negotiations is a non starter. Well you got your answers.
---end quote---
JCPOA, it was a tremendous deal for the US.
?????????????????????????????????????
this tells me that you are either extremely biased or not knowledgeable enough it was an extremely shit deal for the us it just allowed iran to build missiles and fix their economy until they will be legally allowed to build a bomb in around 2030.
They didn’t have a nuke. If they did, the US wouldn’t do this to them. This war is a message to all dictators: do not negotiate with the USA and build a nuke.
I'd say they were kinda vindicated by the fact that all you can say is here blaming proxies for attacking US proxies (bases) in foreign nations, while in terms of hitting the actual country itself, the US has a much much longer list of attacking Iranian land and personnel than vice versa.
As for whether or not they really were building a nuke, we won't get mired in this, but it is not like they weren't also vindicated in needing such deterrence from another nation that has "illegal" nukes and is not a party of the NPT and is supported by the US that repeatedly sanctions them and renegges on deals too, as you should know. Wonder they might have a bone to pick with them.
i didn't say it didn't make sense for them to build it but acting like its crazy to try to stop them from building the nuke is so out of touch take and acting like everything can be solved with negotiations especially after all the bed blood between the countries and how fucking crazy these regime was is also out of touch.
you comparing it to an high school bully situation is crazy they are building nukes and funding proxies to impose their religious beliefs not picking their nose.
Iran was building nukes.
The US has nukes. Legally, sure, but mainly because they made the laws.
Israel has nukes. Ilegally, no questions asked.
No one has done anything about these two. Who have started several wars while in possession of said nukes. And also funded "proxies" around the world to support them, even coup'ing some countries.
But Iran is the problem.
you think that if the roles were reversed and Israel was the one building nukes Iran wouldn't attack them? of coursed they would, (and i wouldn't blame them) its a an existential threat and a legitimate cause for war if your enemy is building nukes and is saying he will delete you from the map.
The only difference between his argument and an actual terrorist's is that the one making the threats right now has the most fire power in the world. I am surprised they cannot see what they are doing lol.
Never serious? You’re joking. This was their counter offer: “ The Americans constantly say that they’ve sent a warship toward Iran. Of course, a warship is a dangerous piece of military hardware. However, more dangerous than that warship is the weapon that can send that warship to the bottom of the sea,”
But if they did, the US wouldn't do shit to stop it. That's regardless of which party is in power, btw.
Israel can do whatever they want right now and the US will back them no matter what.
> You started bombing during negotiations for like the third time. I think they have a very very good reason to be apprehensive lol.
One might say they need nukes as deterrent
not just that but they torpedoed an unarmed ship that was just coming from a parade in india that iran and the usa were both invited to. the usa gov murdered defenseless people it knew would be defenseless and celebrated it like some achievement.
He was also hated by the majority of *Iranians*, which is why the regime's supporters in this thread are using weasel-wording that avoids acknowledging his lack of *internal* legitimacy, like "many viewed him as" and "will be remembered as."
The point here is that the *user* likes what the Ayatollah stood for, and is willing to speak over the majority of Iranians, and the *vast* majority of Iranians living in diaspora.
I define "martyr" as a term for someone who is perceived to have been killed or died for the cause they believed in, and is to be considered inspirational for others who share similar beliefs.
That's independent of a value judgement.
For example, Ashley Babbitt could be described as a martyr for the right in the US. Hamas terrorists are martyrs for violent Palestinian groups. Baruch Goldstein could be described as a martyr for Kahanists.
I would not call any of them goof people, but positioning them as martyrs fills a goal for the causes they are part of. They are meant to encourage others to do more to support a cause.
And that's the use of martyrs - they are held up as inspirational, to encourage further action.
To me martyrs are only people you consider good. Like how very few people call bin laden a martyr or how people who call Hamas people martyrs would not call Israelis martyrs because they do not consider them good and vice versa
You realize I’m talking about INTERNALLY to Iranian’s? A religious zealot leader who “died for their cause” is a martyr, at least in regards to Islam.
There is no positive or negative connotation to me saying that he’s a martyr, I’m just stating facts about what many in the Shia Islam world will consider him to be - a martyr who died for their cause cause:
Martyrdom is a big thing for Islam, doesn’t matter if it was a bad person.
For example, the radicals who supported Al Qaeda considered the 9/11 terrorists martyrs.
So you don’t consider him a martyr you just say Iranians do internally? Though tbh a lot will not consider if a martyr in Iran given he just murdered tens of thousands of people for protesting against him.
>for example
Very very few people would call bin laden a martyr online just because some radical isalmists call him that most would just call him a terrorist.
He would galvanise support alive and without any justice. I can understand why the US would kill him.
Whether a person is good or bad doesn't factor into if they're considered a martyr or not.
Do you think the pope has done evil things? I'm sure we can agree they have, but do you think aitstriking the pope and his family will not make all the Catholics come after you?
The Ayatollah was basically the closest figure to a shia pope. And Shias are really not the type you want to be poking
People dont generally call people they consider awful people martyrs.
Depends which pope you mean? The current one just got in office so I dont really have enough info about them to say they have done evil things.
A given a lot of iranians want democracy to the extent that person you said theyd call a pope had them massacred in the streets for opposing him opinon seems to be a lot more varied than you suggest B unless the person above who called them a martyr is a shia(which of course neither of us knows) this is all a bit besides my question to them
Hey that school is nothing compared to the 40,000 protestors your side killed.
IDF and US putting on a nice show destroying terrorists, not sure why the crying
Remember the worst thing anyone has ever done to you.
Now, do you forgive everyone else who has wronged you because they aren't as bad?
Of course not! Just because they didn't hurt you as badly doesn't mean they are your friend.
Doesn't really matter. He still had support from many in the nation and dying for their cause only boosts his reputation compared to if we just waited a few months for him to age out on his own.
Bombing them gives credibility to our threats which are an important part of negotiations.
The negotiations are really a pair the US leaving open the possibility of a Venezuela situation where secondary or tertiary leaders become willing to negotiate after the top leaders are gone.
40k as per CBS, ran by zionist. Not suspicious at all.
What’s wrong is wrong and international law is a thing. But then again, you’re rooting for a party that dropped bombs on schoolgirls and an 86yr old man in presence of his 4 yr old granddaughter.
So you should be happy the idf and US is bombing terrorists who murdered 40,000 protestors including teens!! I mean lets hope it continues and stomp the terrorists.
> as a result of the strait of Hormuz access denial and the attacks on gulf states oil and gas facilities
It's fairly likely these ships will begin moving in a week or so, once they've renegotiated their insurances. Iran will have to sink a few for it to have a lasting effect
the hormuz card is real but it's mostly pointed at the wrong target tbh
the US gets like 2% of its petroleum consumption through the strait. that's it. the shale revolution happened, we're a net exporter now, this ain't 1979. if iran wanted to use hormuz as leverage against the US specifically, they're like 20 years too late.
the american consumer feels it through global oil price spikes and supply chain ripple effects, not direct energy dependency. that's a very different kind of leverage than having the US by the throat.
meanwhile trump's buddies in the shale industry will make a huge amount of $$$ through by pumping as much as they can at high prices.
Yes, US Oil independence is powerful. But targeting the global economy is still a huge blow to the US reputation and hurts practically every ally we have.
If I’m South Korea, Germany, etc I’m like “god fucking damnit the US fucked us again with their super well thought out plan of starting a war against a country in the Middle East.”
Allies can put huge pressure on the US. If the oil doesn’t flow in a month’s time, many economies will be in dire straits. They can threaten to cancel business deals and trade deals
Iran is not targeting the US economy, Iran is targeting the US reputation to protect the global economy (mainly the shipping industry).
The US superpower status is backed by its military ensuring the security of global trade. "We promise to protect the global shipping industry and trade, in turn you use US Dollar in your trade" that's the simplest version of why the US gets called a superpower and why the whole world agree to it.
Economy is almost a zero sum game, while it might be true that Trump and his cronies are benefitting off this, the American people and the common people anywhere in the world will bear the cost of the crumbling American Empire.
Upper hand in terms of hurting neighbors and the global economy, which really pains the US since the US has screwed its allies.
Militarily - no they of course do not have the upper hand, as I said.
US military top staff will likely refuse to invade.
Trump will maintain air strikes on iranian military infrastructure, that way, it will distract the US voters for the Midterms and further.
It will be similar to the civil war in Syria: western forces will be striking from above, leaving the regional ground forces to deal with the rest if they want to.
Netanyahu will likely do the same: he can't afford a ground invasion through Iraq, and needs his forces at home to invade Syria, Lebanon, the West Bank.
They won't refuse if told to go. If we've learned one thing this decade it's that all the checks, balances, amendments, constitutional processes/protections and institutional integrity that supposedly underpins US governance isn't actually worth shit.
>They already refused to invade Mexico, Canada, Greenland.
They were never instructed to invade any of those countries. They may have voiced opposition but opposing an idea and refusing an official order are 2 very different things.
Their disgrace of a defence secretary will just fire and replace top commanders until he has enough in the chain willing to go along. It’s really not about what’s “wanted.” They also know their conservative base will instantly rally around the flag and forget they ever said they voted for him because “no new wars.”
There'll be some hardcore firebrand types on the pro-Israel lobby that probably do. And Stephen Miller.
So very very few I reckon would actually want it. The problem is that one of those is Bibi and his opinions and desires seem to matter more to Trump than the US citizenry's
Does Stephen Miller want this? I thought he cared more about antagonizing domestic minorities and European allies, but I guess I don't know his stance on the middle east.
Stephen Miller wants an ultra-conservative extreme right US to have total domination over every other country in all matters. He wants US policy and US demands to be the principle concern for every other nation, and he wants the unilateral right for the US to use overwhelming firepower to force compliance without all these pesky questions.
Stephen Miller is the answer to "what if white privilege had a face?". Actually scratch that, he's more like "If white privilege and authoritarianism had a baby which colonial exploitation helped raise, and *that* had a face".
Apparently that face is "angry egg" and ngl, I did *not* see that coming.
That doesn't work, is swear people keep thinking about all of this in a vacuum.
$2.5 billion in radars have been destroyed, interceptor stock is running low, and the strait is still closed. This is a noose around the GCC and world economy. Assassinating the Ayatollah was a point of no return
Oh no, $2.5B gone...
With a yearly military budget of $874B.
With a war in iraq costing $2,000B.
The US is _insanely_ rich and so is its military.
Interceptors running low means what? A few hundreds of casualties at most on their side, while US and IDF will intensify strikes on anything that moves, and start using unguided bombs to flatten any suspected launch site.
>Assassinating the Ayatollah was a point of no return
If the US/Israel cared about the fate of the millions of iranians, and the immediate safety of israelis.
Given that neither Trump nor Netanyahu care one bit about iranians' lives or israelis' safety, they'll keep this conflict going for a decade if possible, with lulls in the fight followed by renewed strikes.
There is no need to go all-in and finish this war, when this very war is what is going to keep you in power.
There isn't enough ground troops even for a ground invasion right now. You would need at least double the forces(more) than Iraqi Freedom. It just doesn't exist unless you try and start a draft
Why should they go for any kind of negotiation with the known liars, backstabbing brainless worms who keep lying about everything, then cry victim on international media and bomb schools, hospitals, clinics, children parks, gym, and everything that moves?
Give us 1 good reason why should anyone negotiate with America and Israel, the two Nazis of this era?
>Well because the only way this ends without surrender by Iran is negotiations
Iran was negotiating in good faith, agreed to 0 uranium enrichment like USA asked and agreed to move the existing stock of uranium to Russia possibly. Surrendering their entire oil and natural resources is the only thing Nazis of this era, the epstein regime want and it won't happened
As i said learn to read from non-MSM that is not answerable to the warmongering terrorists.
Start with the country that was the mediator and the omani person who was working with both parties and listen to his interview as well.
This. We've now entered an era in world politics where it makes no sense at all to negotiate with the US or Israel. The words of these two countries can NEVER be trusted. Israel "negotiated" the January 2025 ceasefire with Hamas and then unilaterally ended it 2 months later. As for the current "ceasefire" Israel violates it every single day and hasn't followed it at all.
Whereas the US literally bombs Iran IN THE MIDDLE OF NEGOTIATIONS and has the fucking nerve to ask them to come back to the table.
I'll trust the greasiest used car salesman before I trust anything from the US or Israel.
Of course, hamas never abided by the terms, refuses to surrender or give up arms. Hence no ceasefire. You seem to be confused.
Sorry your 40,000 protestor killing regime is being bombed, and rightfully so. Not sure why anyones upset at getting rid of a terrorist regime!
So negotiating a deal which is then ripped up, then coming back to the negotiating table and getting sucker punched, THEN making ANOTHER deal WHILE BEING PUNCHED is the only way out of this?
That would make them look weak and invite further attacks. They will have proven they won't meaningfully defend themselves.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like Iranian leadership one bit. They're horrible human beings. It's just insane to think that they'll back down so easily when doing so would mean the end for them. This is an existential threat for them.
Bar surrender yes yes it is the US is not going to stop without a good deal or surrender.
Refusing only means the attacks continue and with a good deal they may not be attacked again.
>2025 ceasefire with Hamas and then unilaterally ended it 2 months later
Just blatant lies
Hamas didn't ever stick to the agreed terms which means it was always been
> They killed 30 fucking 000 people
And then hid the bodies, and are using the bodies to stage atrocity propaganda, which is why there's no evidence of them actually doing the killing. Also they cut out the uteruses of raped women to hide the evidence of their crimes. Top evidence hiders these Iranians.
>Top evidence hiders these Iranians.
Especially when Israel said they had hacked all the cameras in Tehran to spy on Khamenei. Iranians must be good at hiding dead bodies.
How people Israel killed in Gaza? How many people the US killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? Iran are dirtbags, but they can be negotiated with, while the US negotiation are always about buying time before stabbing you in the back when you are at your weakest.
>How people Israel killed in Gaza
It's a war
>How many people the US killed in Iraq and Afghanistan?
War
>Iran are dirtbags, but they can be negotiated with
No they fucking can't be. They're fucking monsters .
> Just blatant lies
This isn't even debatable. That is what happened any any suggestion otherwise is gaslighting. I'm surprised how many people have amnesia over this. The hostage exchange was underway and then Israel decided never mind, we are going to end the ceasefire and go back to genociding. This was one year ago, in March 2025. There was no reason to do this other than to continue genociding and take the land.
> Hamas didn't ever stick to the agreed terms which means it was always broken.
I don't think anyone is convinced by the Hamas excuse anymore. They've stuck to both ceasefire agreements. Any accusations of violations by Israel are never backed up by evidence. But we have mountains of evidence of Israeli ceasefire violations. The media just never reports on it.
> They killed 30 fucking 000 people
This isn't why the USA/Israel bombed Iran. No one actually believes they were being the heroes and coming to save the Iranian people. They did it because Israel wanted this war to force a regime change and install an Israel friendly leader, furthering Israel's ultimate goal of expansion. And the USA does whatever Israel says because 90% of the government is on the AIPAC payroll and Israel has massive dirt on Trump.
The Japanese ambassador was giving a talk on Japan/US relations when he learned that Japan had just surprise attacked Pearl Harbor. That bit at least is nothing new
While an example of a diplomat not being involved in pre-emptive strike planning, you'd think the POTUS as commander in chief would be involved both in the command structure and the negotiation.
it's a common hasbara talking point, they act like history started on october 7th and nothing happened before that, 2023 was the deadliest year in Gaza up until then but these genocide defenders just do the usual of denying reality.
my brother in flying spaghetti monster, ppl have been killing each other in the middle east for literally thousands of years (of recorded history). this conflict didn't start in 2021, or 1948, or whenever y'all wanna begin your timeline.
calling everything you disagree with "hasbara" is just a way to avoid engaging with the actual point. ya, 2023 was deadly in gaza before oct 7, also true: oct 7 was the deadliest day for the jewish people since the holocaust. both things can be real.
I have noticed that people living outside of Iran are always the most interested in continuing the war.
Kinda like how Palestinians living outside of gaza were substantially more in favour of Hamas refusing to surrender.
Hey we allow them to have that miserable strip of land they can live on, so what more do you want? Even a yellow line marking borders hahahaha. Just don't cross it ok?
a miserable strip of land that they get the "privilege" of living on, and the threat of violence if they cross an imaginary line
like, do you think this is how good people talk?
absolutely vile
really, that's nazi shite
there's two options here:
1) you're being an edgelord troll. This is the least amusing, least effortful type of trolling, and is sad to see.
2) you mean it. This is also sad to see.
I won't be replying, because, tbh, it would be a waste of my time
you're free to, though - your time is... less valuable
I’m sure your post history is full of “Hasbara” accusations and anti-Israel rhetoric.
Anyhow, I haven’t deleted my posts. They are easy to search up. It just takes one more step :)
I think it's a real person but here's a good reason they hid their history, [they went and played soldier with the IDF before college](https://www.reddit.com/r/ReformJews/comments/l9jrzf/meaningful_hebrew_text_for_a_bat_mitzvah/) other comments recently about how withholding food from Gazans was the right thing to do post 10/7 as well.
>I have noticed that people living outside of Iran are always the most interested in continuing the war.
You're a Znazi who have participated in land theft, torturing, raping and killing indigenous people of occupied Palestine. You should not be talking about what's good or bad for anyone. Your moral compass is broken.
non-Ukrainians also pretty hyped that Ukraine should fight to the last man, and that Russians should rise up against Putin. Same with getting the crown out of NI/Canada/Jamaica when Elizabeth died.
>Give us 1 good reason why should anyone negotiate with America and Israel, the two Nazis of this era?
Buy some time and play the long game?
It is doubtful that israel would be in a position to launch a similar war in a few years. Given the evolution of the US public towards Israel, Trump was probably their last window of opportunity to have the US fully commited behind them.
lmao, you're crying after being called out for your stupid logic, and now everyone you don't like is a Nazi? probably the most sensitive Canadian i've ever had the displeasure of interacting with
Yes yes and Iran is all sunshine and rainbows.
Almost all Iranians are ecstatic that their dictator has been killed, as is the rest of the rational world. It will remain to be seen how it pans out, but anything is better than Khamenei
>Almost all Iranians are ecstatic that their dictator has been killed,
Iranoan Zionists practicing ✡️ celebrating Iran being bombed doesn't count.
Despite the bombing of Iran, 10000s are coming out every day to mourn their leader. Your lies don't work anymore.
AlL mY hOmIeS hAtE tHeM/yOu.
I am sure your two online "iranian friends" really hate Islam and would like it to go back to "former glory" that they know nothing of except two or three pics they see on reddit and Instagram.
Yeah I don't think Islam is compatible with civilized society. I don't know if that's bigotry... I think that just means I'm literate. Have you read the Quran?
I think liars, bigots and AHs like you do not belong in the society, let alone civilized one.
I have read all Abrahamic books now go lie to someone else I am not going to buy your lies and hateful agenda.
Surrender, in this case, is the same as complete destruction for the leadership of the country.
The US is calling for unconditional, complete surrender. They will sacrifice as many lives as they have to. As you said, they are terrorists. Terrorists aren't known for valuing the lives of innocents over their own.
Yep and the entire world wants that genocidal iranian regime to surrender, and will get all of them if they can!
Feel free to keep crying as your terrorists keep getting hit, good luck! Lots of great bombing being done these days
The Iranian regime had a chance to negotiate before getting obliterated. Now they have no choice, either agree to the US’ terms or get destroyed further.
What are you talking about? They did negotiate, and by all accounts, they offered the US much better terms than those in the JCPOA. All credible reporting indicates that neither the US nor Israel genuinely wanted to negotiate with Iran
Again, what are you talking about? The Iranians, according to independent mediators of the negotiations, offered terms far beyond the JCPOA, including agreeing to [zero stockpiling of nuclear materials](https://thehill.com/policy/international/5759623-iran-nuclear-deal-stockpiling/) and degrading its current stockpile.
If you've been following the negotiations, you'd also know that there have been new demands (largely from Israel) that Iran give up its ballistic missiles, which no country would agree to and is of course the point.
To say that Iran hasn't been negotiating is just patently false and betrays, at the very least, a profound bias in terms of information diet.
......AFTER Trump withdrew from the deal. Until then inspectors were in, getting full access and confirming Iran was complying every 3 months. That only stopped when the US withdrew.
They took that chance [and negotiatied](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/2/28/peace-within-reach-as-iran-agrees-no-nuclear-material-stockpile-oman-fm), while your and the American government took those negotiations as a chance for a surprise attack on Iran.
But don't let such inconvenient details get in the way of your "Negotiate or get obliterated and destroyed!" gloating.
Sure, Epstein also totally killed himself, Saddam absolutely had those WMD, and Iran was actually responsible 9/11.
Any other blatantly obvious lies you want to spread?
Wow, let's just believe this off of what fucking Trump's stooge to say, sure.
We were negotiating with them just fine until Israel made the call that they don't want a subservient Iran, they want it obliterated and balkanized.
They did negotiate. They stuck to the terms of that negotiation. Then Trump pulled out of the deal because it was far too created-by-a-black-guy for his liking. So they stopped abiding by their side.
Netanyahu tried the same "they're 10%/2 weeks ago from having a nuke" that he has been claiming for literal decades, and Trump either bought it, or saw it as a good enough excuse to consider action.
O
Hence "saw it as a good enough excuse". He's already rolled out the old '2 week' claim. There's no knowing how Netanyahu eventually talked him into going along with his long standing intention.
I'll stick to documented facts, thanks.
If that were in any way true it would not have taken Israel this long to leverage it to go after Iran, and the whole Gaza situation woulda been even worse than it is.
Documented facts:
Ari Ben-Menashe claims Robert Maxwell was a Mossad Agent.
Robert is Ghislaine's fater.
Ghislaine was Epstein's right hand.
So Epstein - Ghislaine - Robert - Mossad. That's a very short link from a famous child abuser and trafficker to one of the most active spy agencies in the world. Plus the released files show Epstein had a lot of interest in Israeli news and politics too.
"documented facts"
4th word is "claimed".
Also, do you really think someone central to an international trafficking ring abusing minors is just freely distributing evidence to family cos, like, you know, they like to know what you've been up to. Was she putting these tapes in the Christmas card each year or something?
The claim is a documented fact, yes. And if you think we'd ever get anything more concrete than a claim regarding spy agencies' work, you're an idiot.
And you being an idiot becomes a documented fact with your last paragraph. Any literate person would understand that the children of a spy can have stronger ties to the spy agency than "I'll send child pornography to my parents".
> Womp womp
>
> Its always funny when ~~dictator~~ apartheid regimes advocates speak about laws and morals
>
> Because then you know they are in deep sh*t
ftfy. no charge.
I guess everybody should just follow the lead of "[American democracy](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746)" where laws and morals are neither advocated nor even followed anymore, domestic and international alike.
Yup, especially when the propaganda machine is also working against you. So even IF you manage to get through all that shit, you still have dishonest attacks hitting you non-stop... Just like the protests, and now, they are "attacking all the surrounding nations!"
I'm just so glad this shit doesn't stick like it used to. It still does - it still works. But far less sticky and easy as it once was thanks to independent media.
Iran pretty much has the right to invite Howard Lutnick to peace talks and then bomb the building he's staying in, based on the precedent that the Zionist axis have established
As an Iranian who lives in Iran, i'm losing my fucking mind over these comments. are westerners really this braindead? i refuse to believe that these are bot accounts.
Most of us fucking hate this regime and glad US attacked us.
There was no evidence they were creating nuclear weapons. They were allowed nuclear *energy* which has a massively different enrichment that can be seen from satellites.
Even if they did suspect Iran was building nukes there was protocol to be followed before bombs dropped.
You are giving me literally 2002/2003 flashbacks, I guess some Americans really can't wait trying to repeat Iraq in Iran when even the flimsy justifications are getting reheated.
What are they doing with 60% enriched uranium bud? Saddam did didn’t have weapons. There’s queer evidence that that’s been verified by multinational agencies that Iran is possession of nuclear capable, ballistic weapons and the material to make them.
I love when people bring up Obama, so you blame Netanyahu for giving Hamas Qatari money? Of so, sit this one out bud. Obama gave Iran billions of dollars for “humanitarian” reasons. How’d that turn out?
Just like Netanyahu releasing Qatari money because the PA wouldn’t give it to them, as part of their deal. It’s all the same, sorry you’re trying to pose it as different.
“Iran has primarily sought to use its frozen funds, particularly the roughly $6 billion transferred to Qatar in September 2023”
Oh weird Qatar again no way
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2253053/obama-makes-the-case-for-bombing-iran/
Obama advocated for bombing Iran, you forget that too. He made a deal which has since made 60% uranium enrichment happen and nuclear capable icbms. Good deal for international security. Tell the ayatollah I say hi, oh wait..
> Obama advocated for bombing Iran, you forget that too.
yeah he postured.
>He made a deal which has since made 60% uranium enrichment happen and nuclear capable icbms.
the jump to 60% is a consequence of trump/netanyahu ripping up the jcpoa.
They didn't need them? Iran have had nuclear capable missiles before North Korea did. Missiles are not the difficult part of nuclear weapons, the materials are pretty much the only difficult but these days.
Machining has come a hell of a long way and Iran used to be famous for learning and university education, they have some very good physicists I would bet.
Nuclear capable is anything that can fit a 1.5m payload and reach far enough. Scud missiles from the 60s that Iran had could carry a tactical level nuclear bomb.
You are confusing a strategic nuke with nukes in general. Iran has no interest in hitting the US, their target I imagine would be a lot closer.
You mean like the United States has done in the middle east all through the cold war? Learn some history, you know those guys who flew planes into New York?
Where do you think they got their training and arms? Bin Laden worked with the CIA against the Soviets ffs.
The most amazing thing about this thread is how the DoDbots have successfully convinced people to act [as if the US hasn't already paid a bunch of militias to do just that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Mojahedin_Organization_of_Iran#Relations_with_the_United_States), not back in the Cold War, but very much in our 21st century.
It's [how Syria](https://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-pentagon-isis-20160327-story.html) ended up as it looks now, it's what got us [the totally organic "Arab spring"](https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html).
So… if the point is that it’s bad then how can anyone else complain no one is “following protocol” with regards to Iran
lol this sub has the reading comprehension of a 1st grader
You’re right, they just imported nuclear capable icbm technology for farming. Same with running their reactors off schedule, exceeding hard water limits multiple times. Heck, go read the IAEA reports yourself, Iran stopped cooperating with the deal as it was written in regards to centrifuge relocation and cessation, they denied ever trying to build a weapon and denied the IAEA access to scientists involved with the nuclear program. The ISIS (institute for science and internstnional security) has multiple reviews of incomplete IAEA reports, which were a requirement of the deal as well.
Seriously how dumb are you? The deal was violated right after it was written and accepted. That’s what this proves Trump withdrew in 2019, which means he was correct that Iran has been violating the deal since it’s interception.
“Certain violations in advanced centrifuge numbers may have been rectified inadvertently via breakage, although other violations persist. To the credit of the Trump administration, its policy to better enforce the deal appears to be improving Iranian compliance with the nuclear limits. However, it is too soon to conclude that Iran is complying or will comply fully with the deal’s nuclear limits. Iran can be expected to continue to push the deal’s limits, commit violations, and seek interpretations that are unfounded. One should expect many struggles to keep Iran within the nuclear limits for the duration of the deal.”
Pretty bad when scientists after the deal basically said they’re not complying, won’t comply and will keep pushing for weapons.
Except the unbiased scientific committee the ISIS said the IAEA were not upholding the standards of the deal. Find the 2017 ISIS report here:
https://isis-online.org/isis-reports/update-on-irans-compliance-with-the-jcpoa-nuclear-limits
a think tank in dc is saying the there were discrepancies over the number of centrifuges, discrepancies that were subsequently remedied due to breakage. oh noes!!!! let's start the bombing! try harder you clown.
The IAEA said there were discrepancies too bud, it was also not allowed to interview the scientists it should have or access any “military” installations, even those which err included in the deal. This doesn’t even account for exceeding the hard water limits, having centrifuges running which could never be used for civilian infrastructure or improperly spinning up centrifuges. Again, all of these things break the deal. I’m sorry you guys believe the ayatollah blindly.
cry me a river all the way to dimona. the consensus is that iran were complying with the jcpoa. that was the official position of the iaea and the whitehouse.
While funding terrorism and trying to kill “Israelis” globally. I’m glad you’re so willing to ignore all of the non-nuclear trouble iran causes globally.
It's amazing how naturally you assume the US gets to dictate to Iran agreements, and then complain about Iran allegedly not holding up their end of a deal that's illegally being forced on Iran.
Nearly as amazing as an American complaining about others not holding up their end up of [agreements and treaties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_United_States_treaties);
> From 1778 to 1871, the United States government entered into **more than 500 treaties with the Native American tribes**; many Native American activists argue that **most or all of these treaties have since been violated in some way or outright broken by the U.S. government**, with Native Americans and First Nations peoples still fighting for their treaty rights in federal courts and at the United Nations.
It’s amazing that you’re trying to live in a revisionist history. There was multiple countries involved with the Iran deal bud. The terms were dictated by all involved, but only broken by Iran.
Meanwhile Iran is just attacking every neighbor it can find.
Pakistan is probably in a difficult position due to the joint defense pact with Saudi Arabia. Pakistan was pretty friendly with Iran but Iran's strategy just pisses off everyone and turns them from possibly sympathetic to hostile.
I mean the Azerbaijan is furious, and they were one of the friendliest neighbors to Iran.
It is a bold one. I think the Gulf States will sour on the US in the end, but at the same time I don't think it will get the actual result Iran wants. There are a lot of friendly or neutral states that they are attacking who are furious.
Probably not, but the IRGC are religious fanatics and the US just killed their pope, so I don't think they really care either way.
Their biggest hope is probably Bahrain, as the population is predominantly Shia like Iran, but the ruling royal family is Sunni.
Yeah that's exactly it, just generalized disruption so fuel prices will damage the perception of the war, and drawing it out as long as possible with how spread out and plentiful their drones are. Getting xennial deja-vu enough to believe this will be effective for them unfortunately. They've been digging in on this strategy for decades and there's logic to it, especially with how things turned out for the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US has never really succeeded against an insurgency before, and I don't think they factor in how important martyrdom is for the small cells of troops they'll have to deal with. It seems like they're assuming this "okay guys, you win" outcome and expecting internal resolution, which is quite an assumption to make in relation to all the resources poured in to this and potential blowback.
>Give us 1 good reason why should anyone negotiate with America and Israel, the two Nazis of this era?
To stop the bombs that are dropping and killing your people?
>To stop the bombs that are dropping and killing your people?
USA and their epstein handler started bombing after Iran agreed to all the terms in negotiations.
It’s fucking insane how Iran already kowtowed to US demands within the last decade. Just a cursory look at the timeline will drive you mad.
Obama signed the JCPOA and Iran kept its side of the commitment to a T. Relations were beginning to improve, then the fascist orange turd came and tore it up, applied maximum pressure by lobbying sanctions at them and Iran still kept to the deal unilaterally until Solemani was killed. A guy who they lured into a fake meeting then drone striked him like the pieces of shits that they are.
US lured them into fake negotiations last year despite making up its mind to attack Iran and destroy its nuclear sites. They partook in this sham negotiations, then launched a decapitating strike using their attack dog Israel as the spearhead to assassinate senior leaders, then dropped bunker busters on underground nuclear sites claiming to have ended the program (a total lie as we know). Then they lured them again into another BS negotiations while simultaneously having the biggest military buildup in the region since the Iraq war, already planning to carpet bomb the capital, kill the supreme leader and decapitate the entire government then install a puppet (or turning it into a failed state like the Libya example).
The crazy thing is after ALL that the Iranians still played ball, engaging in good faith with the very slim chance of reaching a compromise despite the absurdity of the latest rounds of demands from the Trump administration, which essentially amounted to surrender of sovereignty and demilitarization of the country. Terms imposed on nations that declare unconditional surrender after Brutal wars and not good faith negotiations between two parties interested in peace and avoiding war.
And you know what’s mind blowing ?
IRAN STILL AGREED HOURS BEFORE THE ATTACK NOT TO ENRICH ANY URANIUM AND PROPOSED TO MOVE MOST OF THEIR 450 KG 60 ENRICHED MASS TO RUSSIA AS A FIRST STEP.
Trump of course didn’t give a crap because he already gave the green lit months ago to start a regime toppling war. Fuck anyone who claims that Iranians wanted this war and didn’t do anything to avoid it. They humiliated themselves over and over and took countless slaps to avert regional war with disastrous global consequences, and STILL the American empire came for them. Unfuckingbelivable !
Now The US and its shitty little attack dog imposed a war of survival on the Iranian nation and are asking them to negotiate after all that. The absolute supremacist narcissism and shamelessness is off the fucking charts.
Iran realized that negotiations with the US and Israel is a lost cause. Something that’s more dangerous than continuing a war that will destroy their country and the global economy. Inflicting huge damages on the empire is deemed more worthy of a goal to pursue than talking to them and get fooled by another strike and sanctions. They will never set on the table before putting the region on fire and sink the global economy, making the bloodthirsty war mongering pedo fascists in power pay dearly for their decisions. And no honest person at this stage can blame them. You have to wonder who moved them to such extent to think that the mere mention of negotiations is a non starter. Well you got your answers.
As far as I can tell, the optimum strategy for dealing with Trump is just to tell him you're going to do what he wants, then just not do it. And if he asks, tell him you're doing what he asked.
Agree to have free and fair elections, and then don't. If Trump complains, swear up and down they we free and fair.
Tell him you'll destroy your centrifuges, then don't. If Trump complains, swear up and down they've been destroyed
No matter what happens, channel the spirit of Shaggy. Works for Putin.
This strategy is moronic. It'd never work on the president of the united states of america. Unless you handed him a little trophy or a gold plated rolex while you're lying to him
The US and Israel sunk their navy and bombed them with thousands of missiles and bombs.
There's no peaceful way out of this where they get to save face. They can't allow themselves to be a punching bag or they'll be seen as weak.
International politics is largely honour based, not law based. If you look weak then you will become a victim. If you are perceived as strong then you will be left alone.
>Per those involved with the negotiations they did agree to everything right before the attack came. As did Maduro. So that apparently is not enough.
That's exactly the kind of weakness America looks for. You surrender and we will bomb you. You stand up to US and they will cower down and scatter like little rats.
Nah, the best strategy is to send your hottest man to the White House and talk to Trump.
Mamdani showed us that Trump will show you a great time, and even say it’s ok to call Trump a fascist in front of the cameras
Suleimani had that silver fox vibe going on. If Netenyahu had convinced Trump to assassinate him, he probably could have charmed the pants off Trump if they had a meeting.
It's difficult as an outsider to know whether Palestine, Israel, or both are breaking cease-fires; it's also a lot more plausible that either (or both) sides will break cease-fires without direction from the top.
Russia is a much cleaner case to see where they're lying, and I don't believe Russian soldiers would try to get back to a shooting war against orders.
It's only difficult to tell because Israel has banned foreign journalists and assassinates domestic Palestinian journalists. These people are desperately trying to obfuscate information about the ceasefire and their conduct in the war in general. That should tell you anything you need to know as to whether or not Israel is breaking the ceasefire. That and their history of breaking ceasefires, as well as their recent history of attacking their neighbors. There's not really a good basis to doubt anyone claiming Israel is violating ceasefires at this point.
The point I'm making is that any excuse about the clarity of the situation is a bad faith excuse as Israel has full control over the level of clarity available to the world and they have chosen to prevent outside observers from having any clarity.
There is no both sidesing this. We have a laundry list of ceasefire violations by Israel. They ditched the January 2025 ceasefire for no reason and haven't abided by the October 2025 ceasefire at all. They still regularly bomb and snipe civilians in Gaza. They use the Hamas excuse but pretty much never provide evidence that Hamas did anything.
This behavior is consistent for Israel. As the saying goes, any ceasefire with Israel means "you cease, we fire."
Thats such a cop out. Remember when Hamas showed up to negoitate in Qatar and THE TOP OF THE ISRAELI COMMAND CHAIN LAUNCHED ROCKETS INTO THEIR SUPPOSED ALLY'S COUNTRY TO DISRUPT THE TALKS THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO ATTEND. Fuck outta here with that crazy ass line. We know at least one side 100% is working in bad faith to the highest order and it was international news so its not even a secret.
American intelligence agencies aren't going to cheerlead for Hamas like you're keen to do, so you can't take that kind of apologetics into "How people will deal with Trump".
Meanwhile, the CIA tells him in a single page, 40 point font memo "Putin Lied To You" and Putin's lies still work, so that's a pretty strong indication that lying to his face even when he should have all the information to know you're doing it works.
Why wouldn't they considering hamas laughs at the terms of surrender, refuses to relinquish power and keeps murdering their own citizen. There's no cease fire.
Yeah, and it worked. Although tbf they did the same when it was Biden, but to be even more fair the Israel-Neocon nexus has my government by the balls no matter who's in the White House.
“The two Nazis of this era”?
_The two_?
Aren’t you forgetting about the _worst_ child-murdering, child-kidnapping offender? The atrocities of Iran’s regime against its own civilians, Israel’s cold-blooded and self-admitted genocide in Gaza, and the random acts of unplanned evil from the Trump junta pale in comparison. Not that it’s a competition. They’re all evil.
Surely you jest?
You’re from “North America” so perhaps it’s understandable that you wouldn’t care or be aware about this, but there’s a multi-year war going on in Europe: russia, a fascist country led by a megalomaniacal deranged dictator with drug-fueled dreams of a return to an imaginary greatness that never actually existed, has invaded Ukraine and is committing genocide just like Nazi Germany did in World War Two.
If all of the above is news to you, start from here, it’s about Nazi state propaganda in russian schools, I challenge you to find anything of this level of evil in Iran, or Israel, or the USA:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2026/mar/02/teacher-putin-primary-school-propoganda-mr-nobody-against-putin-pavel-talankin
In fact it’s difficult to find a difference, be it political, ideological, military, or sociological, between the russia of 2026 and Nazi Germany of 1944, but perhaps you with your “North American” perspective can find one. (Downvote if you can’t).
Could be a bot, could be. But if so, it sure sounds like the bot has been trained purely on a corpus of the russian modus operandi, and I quote the bot:
> the known liars, backstabbing brainless worms who keep lying about everything, then cry victim on international media and bomb schools, hospitals, clinics, children parks, gym, and everything that moves?
I don’t know why a (russian) bot account would be trained to do that, it’s a bit too much on the nose…
Perhaps pure incompetence? Also, famously, part of the russian modus operandi.
Perhaps a Chinese bot, then? I don’t think so: a Chinese bot would output better English than that text which has the hallmarks of a poorly educated native russian speaker.
I suspect, on the balance, that it’s just another semi-literate russian propagandist who is trying to use good old whataboutism, in this case it’s “the accusation in a mirror”, where you identify all the bad things you know you are doing and then you accuse others of it.
Here’s how true North Americans fight russian propaganda:
https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/issues_development-enjeux_developpement/response_conflict-reponse_conflits/crisis-crises/ukraine-fact-fait.aspx
Is it?
[**US turns up heat on Venezuela with threat to indict new leader Delcy Rodriguez**](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-turns-up-heat-venezuela-with-threat-indict-new-leader-delcy-rodriguez-2026-03-03/)
>Federal prosecutors have put together possible corruption and money laundering charges, and have communicated to Rodriguez that she is at risk of prosecution unless she continues to comply with Trump’s demands following the U.S. ouster of former Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro in January, the sources said.
Is she still complying?
So far so good, though there's obviously Trump's threat hanging over her. It's basically cooperate in full and you get to stay leader. Stray from that and you're out.
You misunderstood what I was saying.
Use Google to learn how my history isn't actually hidden. (i.e "google it")
I hide history because most trolls and bad-actors are too lazy and dumb to get beyond a trivial obstacle like superficially "hidden" history.
Why should they go for any kind of negotiation with the known liars, backstabbing brainless worms who keep lying about everything, then cry victim on international media and bomb schools, hospitals, clinics, children parks, gym, and everything that moves?
Give us 1 good reason why should anyone negotiate with America and Israel, the two Nazis of this era?
since u wanna discount his takes saying hes a "bot" now i have said the same thing as he did now give a counter arguement. i am not a bot check my history
Copy pastes a bot comment on their baby 6 year old account to try to prove a point
What’s your point? That you’re swayed by botting and astroturfing? Congrats, you’re a cultivated useful-idiot lmao.
Great point you have there
Because it can work our really well for whoever takes the lead. You could end up leading the country and government, instead of a lower ranked member of the government or IRGC. Look at Delcy Rodríguez, thrust into a position of leadership that she would not have had otherwise. If you have the right amount of ambition, are willing to take the risk, and don't buy into the previous leadership's hard-line stance, it could be a smart move.
Because the other option is certain death. Granted, the Iranian regime has proved over and over again they don't care about how many of their own die.
If America and Israel are the Nazis of this era, what does that make countries like Russia, China, and North Korea, where millions of people are interned or stuck in forced labor for the rest of their lives? Or the gulf states, where the human slave trade is alive and well? Or Iran, where they are killing 10-20,000 of their own people every 5-10yrs so they don't have to increase the quality of life and can keep sponsoring mass casualty terrorist attacks?
It's hard to take hyperbolic arguments seriously, especially when they intentionally omit anything that challenges the arguments validity.
running from answer again by saying whataboutism. look at what xyz countries can do instead looking what happening right now. United state is signicantly worse than the countries u mention bar russia who is equally worse. United state allows human slave trade by making them prosper. united states making camps that forces labor for rest of their lifes. united states starving cuba and same blockade will be upon iran. epstein regime has shown that they cant be trusted with agreement.
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LOL what? That’s not how war works. Losers don’t get to dictate terms, they take what they are given or they keep fighting and die. Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? I hate nazi analogies but imagine the US was fighting the nazis to end their regime but they had to make “reasonable requests” lmao
I don’t understand the logic behind your argument. Being the one that’s being invaded has nothing to do with who should be the one surrendering. The ones surrendering are the ones that think they might all die if they don’t.
You don’t need to wait till you’ve “lost” to surrender, that’s the whole point of surrendering. The surrender becomes the loss. Iran doesn’t stand a chance. If they refuse to surrender, there will only be more bloodshed on their side. Of course, when the ideology behind their fighting is a divine one, they wonnt think pragmatically, they will happily die for their cause and take the whole country down with them. This is exactly what happened to Hamas and to Hezbollah. They know they stand no chance and still continue to fight with zero regards to their own civillians getting hurt because destroying Israel takes precedence over protecting their own people.
It’s funny you mention Iran being the one who’s being invaded because technically, their proxies are the ones who invaded and attacked first. Add to that the fact that they were building nuclear weapons and lying about it, no one needs to wait for them to “invade” directly. I don’t understand these imaginary rules that you guys love to invent when it comes to war. It gives off a lot of “everyone gets a participation trophy” energy. No. Losing has consequences and there is such a thing as running out of chances.
For as proud of American military capacity you seem to be, you also seem to be proud of America' grand strategic failings?
Why is that?
You're espousing the ability to kill and destroy anything you'd like, and yet, when people are pointing out that America has had a string of military engagements and losses approaching nearly 75 years of military adventurism, and yet, America is weaker than it has been in decades?
Reality bothersome for you?
Iraq v2 lmao
You know that every day of this "operation" costs your country 1 billion $ that could be spent on ANYTHING that's benefiting your nation but instead you decide to burn it in Iran
Time to load up on the defense sector. It’s a win/win investment. Either the war continues and they benefit from direct conflict material losses or the war ends and all sides need to restock depleted inventory.
It’s money making time boys!
You will destroy them because you can?
It’s certainly not because of civilians being killed, otherwise the US wouldn’t have intervened in Sudan and other regions. Trump pulled out of the nuclear deal that existed that Iran was abiding by.
Yes, it’s painful for Canadians because we actually win 🥇 on a regular basis in Olympic hockey, 9 golds so far, vs your 3 now. Last time the US won gold, since it’s so rare, they made a movie about it. Can’t wait for Miracle 2.
But let’s get back to the US being the villains. Did you have any rebuttal?
Israel not only they started this aggression against Iran but also said they are genociding Iranians and saying they want Iran to be the next Gaza, give me one good on why should Iran negotiate with a genocidal state that wants to destory Iran as nation.
I’m with you on that this is a crime against humanity and crime against peace, but I don’t think you can call this a genocide like the one in Gaza was / is.
If it goes well for them to the point where their troops are in control of the place, I'm sure the journalists can write the news based on templates from Gaza. Cross out Gaza for Iran, cross out city name with another, cross out a specific number and future proof it with "lots of people".
*ALL EYES ON MASSHAD!*
[Camera pans over to Iranians cheering for Ayatollah being killed]
*Nothing to see here, don't listen to those Iranians over there.*
Genocide = [war]+[there are civilian deaths]+[your nation is Jewish]
It might seem like a tragic reminder that *even just wars cause suffering to people who don't deserve it*, but that would be a silly view. There's a special arm of the genocide-determination flowchart just for Israel.
Intent AND evidence of one of the prohibited actions that constitute genocide. Not sure what you’re even talking about regarding mass killing and starvation.
So then Hamas and hezzbollah have the intent of genocide by mass killing Israelis and trying to starve them, good to know.
Oct 7th was an attempted genocide by those goalposts
We have a top upvoted comment calling the US and Israel modern Nazis. While Iran murdered 20,000-40,000 unarmed citizens in their streets and sent the bodies to families with bills for the bullets used. They were executing people in hospitals. The sheer scale of that atrocity is just... it's wild to see people acting like it didn't happen.
It's important to condemn unethical actions by nations like the US and Israel. But, honestly, some people are legitimately hand-waving a massacre of civilians that doesn't suit their own personal narratives.
It's a wild time to be alive. It's frustrating arguing for nuance when so many people are acting like political extremists.
I don’t see anyone hand waving it, but it doesn’t justify bombing elementary age school girls and bombing the same hospitals you’re speaking of. And it’s not really that relevant to bring up when pointing out that the US bombed schoolgirls. Do you really want a footnote of bad things other countries have done every time a critique against the US is made?
lol he is using the shittiest photos to try to demonstrate his point.
There are plenty of other satellite images in various news articles that show it better.
Or are you so concerned the school doesn't have a drive-up drive-thru style roads like American schools? Are you really that car-brained you can't imagine that a country with 50% of households owning cars (with that probably being biased towards Tehran -- look at Minab's neighborhoods and you'll see few houses have places for families to keep cars, or even drive cars near their home), is going to design their schools to suit a different kind of commuter?
Look at other schools in Minab on Google Maps and you'll see very similar layouts with a perimeter wall, a few gates for pedestrian use, and one or two cars parked outside the school with no obvious road for the car to enter.
> It's important to condemn unethical actions by nations like the US and Israel. But, honestly, some people are legitimately hand-waving a massacre of civilians that doesn't suit their own personal narratives.
I think this sub has filled with bots in the last year or two
You know more than one thing can be true right? So any country in the world can come bomb the shit out of NYC cause the current U.S regime is fascist? Make it make sense.
Yes.
If the US government would start killing droves of people they aught to protect, in an effort to stay in power, it would become ethical to neutralise those killers.
They could've still had a off ramp but whoever made the decision to turn the Shia Pope (an 80+ yr old) into a martyr was clearly not thinking.
Who are we kidding it was 100% Israel's idea but dumbfounded how the US thought that would be a good idea
What are with all these numbnuts around here? Or are you some sort of glowie?
There are reasonable Iranians to be sure, but do you have the slightest clue about Twelver Shi'a? "Pro Martry Islamic Fundamentalist" is baked into the schisms/countries DNA ffs.
With that in mind I suggest you look up the actual definition of "regime", a word that has been effectively dead for decades as it was utterly instrumentalized by a handful of regimes.
Nobody is noticing the self-fulfilling prophecy?
Since 1979 the "revolutionary government" of Iran has been acting the way it does saying it needed to be like they are as Israel are manipulating genocidal monsters, and the US is a world empire that would destroy anyone that would against their imperialism. Years goes on. The rest of the world treat the Revolutionary Regime as the old crazy lady from the neighborhood that screams at children and everybody hates.
Cue 2026, Israel manipulates de US to act like a world empire and begin a war against Iran, and acting again as genocidal monsters like they did on Gaza.
>Israel not only they started this aggression against Iran but they are also genociding Iranians and saying they want Iran to be the next Gaza, give me one good on why should Iran negotiate with a genocidal state that wants to destory Iran as nation.
where was your bleeding heart when the islamic republic's thugs killed 30k people in one night?
Genocide has a very specific meaning, actually.
***Israel committing genocide in Gaza, world's leading experts say***, [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o)
***I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.***, [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html)
***Israel committing genocide in Gaza, world’s top scholars on the crime say***, [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/01/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-worlds-top-scholars-on-the-say](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/01/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-worlds-top-scholars-on-the-say)
I cannot wait until we finally cut off your entitled, genocidal country.
Ah, so you're a genocide denier. Enjoy being in the same category as WW2 Germans!
Israel is a committing a genocide in Gaza, ethnic cleansing campaign in the West Bank and Southern Lebanon, and war crimes in Iran.
It's not bigotry to point out the barbaric actions a country and it's government carry out. No one is believing that bullshit conflation anymore. Should we just start calling anyone against the US anti-Christian, too?
It's bigotry to hold the only Jewish nation on earth to an insane double standard. Calling Israel "barbaric" for getting dragged into a war that Hamas started? Calling Israel "barbaric" even though they do not to avoid civilian deaths than any other nation? It's insane.
I'm not pro-iran?
You realize life is a bit more complicated than using labels as narrow as "oh you're pro-israel based on this?" "Oh you're pro-palestinian based on this?"
My biggest hope in the last two months is a large coalition of Arab parties uniting to get a bigger bloc in our upcoming elections (in terms of our internal affairs). How would you label this thought based on my previous comments as well?
No I mean, you're pro-vile people.
I think you're straight up lying, actually. Or at least, disingenuous about why you want the Arab parties to gain more power. Do you hope they get more power to help push Bibi out and install a more moderate Zionist who doesn't send the IDF to get killed for land only the Settlers want?
But I don't think you'd support them if it meant that say, they got enough power to force Israel to do something about the illegal settlements. Or even, got enough power to force them to do \*nothing\* about them, withdrawing IDF and Israeli police protection for them while they go about their violent activities in the West Bank.
Yes, I do want them to push Bibi out using the moderate center and left wing, the same way they pushed Bibi out in 2021. It would've been much better had they formed a singular party to get more votes, and not get some of them discarded due to thresholds and vote trading agreements (like Meretz not passing threshold in 2022 allowing Bibi to ascend because the left literally lost three seats because of this shit)
Why do you think I'm lying?
Exactly. You want them to get enough power to push out the extremely popular (He's been PM for 25 years, about a quarter of the county's existence. You don't get to be such a prominent figure for decades without deep support.) PM but not enough to do things they might actually want to do. It's a cynical, tactical kind of support that will evaporate as soon as someone you like better is in office or they get too powerful and then you'd side with Bibi against them.
Uh... No?
I want them with more power to get policies pushed towards Arab population, just like Bennet's 5b five-year-plan (plan 292 of the 2021 Israeli government) with much more ease and without the danger of a single MK forcing hands and jumping ship and dismantling the entire government, like Idi(o)t Silman did.
Do you even know anything about Israeli inner politics but how long Bibi has been PM?
Again I ask; why do you think I'm lying?
Because you're a supporter of the Gaza Genocide. It's difficult to believe that you genuinely want the Arab population of Israel to do well. Unless you don't believe in Israel as a Jewish State too, which is at odd with your posting history. Certainly, you don't care about Arabs who are also under the control of Israel, who have neither self determination nor legal rights as citizens of Israel, despite the massive control it exerts over them.
Uhm ... If you're looking at Bibichannel (aka CH14) it might look like its an easy win.
Every other decent poll is getting us at pretty much a gridlock situation again, just like our previous 6 years. Hence my desire for a big Arab party that'll be forced to be "used' to get the chance to form a government.
The "moderate center and left wing" opposition party also supports the Greater Israel project.
[https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-yair-lapid-biblical-borders](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-yair-lapid-biblical-borders)
Yair lapid is scratching the threshold and trying to lure swing votes by saying random things. Honestly I wish he himself wouldn't pass but some of his party will (even though it's impossible, just a feat of how terrible he was both as an opposition leader and as rotating PM). But nice of you to fixate on that minor detail.
When he's just saying it to try and get some swing votes? Yes.... He clearly also mentioned it goes together with foreign policy and security, meaning it's open to interpretation what he actually means (i.e "giving" those stupid biblical lands to those nations if there is peace, more like not doing anything to reclaim them as it threatens stability).
I love how your previous comment got deleted. Can't answer a simple question without foil language? :(
It might've happened and I'm not denying it...
You also on the "Israel is genociding Iran" or do you also realize this is a hot dumb take that only harms true cases of genocide?
>It might've happened and I'm not denying it...
and you say that as if it's a normal thing. It is an unspeakable act. I just don't understand people like you.
I don't understand people like you who refuse to read anything that doesn't fit their worldview. Why don't you read my other comment in this chain regarding this?
Well it's most likely that the aim of Israel is just to destroy Iran. So while, in contrast to Gaza, I can't be sure of Israel's genocidal intent for Iran at the moment, the first signs are already showing, including bombing of hospitals and double-tapping rescue workers. Here, read and weep:
[Tehran an ‘apocalypse’ of hospitals in flames and children buried beneath rubble](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/03/03/apocalypse-tehran-heaviest-day-strikes-war/)
Because as far as I'm updated it's still contested if it's American or Israeli action, and for shameful reasons both parties are not participating in researching where the fault is.
I mean, OP of chain just published a report saying it's probably American just three minutes ago. I doubt he'll change his mind on Israel genociding Iran after understanding it might've not been Israel.
There is nothing about the conflict with Iran that qualifies as genocide, speaking as someone who hates Netanyahu and Trump. This kind of hyperbole actually helps defend Netanyahu by weakening the real rhetoric and war crimes by the Israeli government
>"Israel" not only they started this aggression against Iran but t
Iran financed the Oct 7th attacks. Iran has been calling for the destruction of Israel since the Islamic revolution.
In no way did Israel start this aggression.
It's cute they think people would bother with a ground invasion when they can just fly a plane over and drop a bomb. In Ukraine there's too much air defence to do so but in Iran they've lost so much air defence that Israel/the US can use the relatively cheap bombs now.
>It's cute they think people would bother with a ground invasion when they can just fly a plane over and drop a bomb.
Have you considered the fact that there hasn't been a single example of successful regime change imposed via bombpoint?
You said it yourself "Rebels"
Iran doesn't have armed militias that could put up a fight against IRGC & Iranian army.
I don't see any rebellion in near future.
Meanwhile Iran can just keep chucking cheap drones at oil rigs, tankers just next to them for a LONG time.
I don't think the world economy can withhold for long as until a rebellion forms.
Trump got himself involved in a war with no clear vision. It is going to be very amusing to see the next few weeks as he slowly gets the cold feet.
Who said anything about successful ?
The point is regime change, or at least no more nukes capabilities
Hard to build nukes without infrastructures
Wdm civilian casualties ? Do you think they care ?
I mean... sure, there's always the possibility of *unsuccessful* regime change, but that sort of buttresses the point that you can't be successful without some element of boots on the ground and if we aren't here to change the regime, what the fuck are we here for?
>or at least no more nukes capabilities
didn't we *just* obliterate their nuclear program?
But Trump said he already destroyed their nuclear program last year. Both things can't be true because it's a very slow process to get the systems set up.
Either Trump destroyed their nuclear program and he's lying about why they're there now, out he lied then and didn't destroy them. Which is it?
Israel and the US have been using the excuse that Iran is close to having nuclear weapons for the last 30yrs.
Trump lied when he said he destroyed the program
Bunkers were too deep
So now he either takes the Bunkers with soldiers or force the regime to abandon them
So why should a country go to war for a liar? Is he lying about how close Iran is to having nuclear weapons (yes he is)
Iran's nuclear program was closely monitored until Trump removed the US from the agreement to do that. All of this is an excuse to destroy Iran.
Which, last I checked, isn't close to producing a bomb. If it keeps being delayed and never produces a bomb I'd say that probably counts as 'stopped', no?
I think one big difference a lot of people fail to grasp comparing this to previous US middle east incursions is that the IRGC is the ruling government, not an insurrection group. In order to dismantle an insurrectionist group a ground invasion would absolutely be required, but a formal government, especially one that only has support from maybe 40% of the population, needs proper infrastructure and institutions.
They will never be able to destroy the IRGC, but if I had to guess the US/Israeli plan is to destroy all infrastructure and force them into a survival mode like those insurrection groups were, where best case for the IRGC they retain power, but have to spend years rebuilding and winning back legitimacy in the country, let alone rebuilding their regional proxy network.
Iran doesn'y have nukes, but they had uranium enriched well beyond industrial uses, to the point where they would be able to enrich it to weapons grade in weeks. This is what they mean when they say "Iran is weeks away from a nuke".
Idk what you mean by "you guys" here. Trump was a moron for throwing away the Iran deal. I don't support this war, especially the way Trump is doing going about it.
The objecgive would be to nutter iran as a power in general
Genocide is not equal to bombings. When the allies bombed japan they did not genocide them right ?
Venezuela is a good example, the goal isn't regime change it's alliance/policy change. If you think the governments unpopular now imagine them without internet and electricity. People will defend their right to social media and phone use a lot more than their right to vote.
"We assassinated their leader, a whole bunch of their top brass and have promised to do the same to any similarity-minded replacement they appoint, but it's not regime change."
As someone from the US it's a bit rich for you to make this claim considering that opposition to the party leader has destroyed the career of every republican whose done it, while only sycophants have prospered.
I'm Canadian....As someone from the UK did you even go to school? We're literally under the same crown how do you forget that North America doesn't = America are you from the UK or Africa?
>If you think the governments unpopular now imagine them without internet and electricity.
The comment I replied to is talking about how *Iranian* civilians would feel towards the *Iranian* government, in the absence of internet and electricity. And it isn't the Iranian regime taking out the power grid right now
Not only did it require us to *nuke* to the country after rolling up the majority of their empire in order to convince them to surrender but we then occupied them for seven years.
I don't believe that you're suggesting the person I responded to is proposing that particular course of action with language like 'It's cute they think people would bother with a ground invasion'
I'm just providing an example of a successful regime change that was imposed due to bombing.
Japan was on the path to surrender prior to the bombing, they were trying to figure out how to get conditional surrender but the atomic bombings convinced the Emperor to break the deadlock and unconditionally surrender.
Post war.
Most of the conflict really was naval and aerial based. The grinding full scale warfare was to get air fields closer and the naval combat was large scale commercial raiding where the Japanese merchant marine fleet lost 2,346 ships which represented 8.6 million tons of cargo.
Again, the bombing alone isn’t what brought about regime change. Implying the surrender document alone signifies regime change really overlooks the work between SCAP and the Japanese during the **seven** year occupation
You keep overlooking the contribution that the knowledge the Allies *would* invade them and indeed were making extensive open and obvious preparations to do so and *fully intended* to invade them had on their thinking. A situation which certainly does not obtain today
Plus all the other points everyone else has raised and you've handwaved away
And that's not even getting in to the matter of the tens of thousands of soldiers and marines who died in ground combat or the millions of troops the US and the rest of the allies were perfectly prepared and willing to invade the home islands. Or how those factor in to the strategic calculus Japan applied at the end of the war. I'm sorry but the downfall of Japan is not an example of 'regime change imposed from the air'
I personally just view this round of hostilities as a continuation of decades of conflict between the US and Iran.
Japan is an example of it, you just don't like that it is.
Note that the Soviet Invasion is often considered an equal or even larger factor in their surrender than the bomb(s).
It's just a theory of mine, but my guess is that much of Japanese leadership basically couldn't even conceive of the bomb, especially within a couple of days of it being dropped. Would be very hard to spend years on strategy, then have the whole game changed before your eyes.
Easier to understand a huge new army that just knocked out your key ally has joined the fray, and is sweeping through Manchuria and you have no way of stopping them.
That said, the bomb(s) alone may have been enough, especially after they had time to assess the damage and discover the whole radiation thing.
>Note that the Soviet Invasion is often considered an equal or even larger factor in their surrender than the bomb(s).
Japanese meeting minutes and diplomatic cables don't indicate this. The shock that people often cite is Japan's shock of the Soviet entering when they were diplomatically using the USSR as a mediator with the remaining United Nations. They felt like they were led on about the reality of the talks because the USSR was planning to invade when Japan approached them for mediation.
By the time of Japanese surrender, Japan was already trying to conditionally surrender which was rejected by the United Nations. At this point Japan was undergoing a famine due to food shortages, its merchant fleet was gone, and most of its cities were subject to consistent aerial bombing campaigns. The atomic bombings provided enough of a means for the Emperor to intervene against the War Cabinet which was deadlocked into conditional surrender vs unconditional surrender.
I mean, everyone is welcome to their own interpretation. I was just saying that it is a common perspective amongst historians that the USSR was also major consideration.
I'm not claiming to actually know the truth of the matter — others are better qualified for that. But fact is, it's far from certain that it was solely a matter of blockade and bombing as your original comment said outright.
1. That was nuclear war pre-MAD. If Israel or the US uses a nuke that's immediate pariah status, they're almost certainly not going to go that far.
2. Both the US and the USSR had a very credibly ground invasion threat against Japan. Right now, the US has a frankly incredible ground invasion threat against Japan, having given up completely on one of the neighbours they used to hold, and having significantly reduced their grip on the other.
Bombing campaigns are seldom effective in forcing capitulation. Even in Gaza, a tiny strip of land with no meaningful air defense Israel had to invade with its troops.
Iran is a very large country, it is very unlikely that the US would be able to achieve it by bombing alone. It didn’t work in the blitz, didn’t work on Vietnam, and it probably won’t work here either. Now the USA is in quite a predicament, either they accept the war as a failure, sustain the bombing campaign for an indeterminate amount of time, or they escalate with a land invasion. Diplomacy is off the table, and hardware cost in the gulf is getting very expensive… my guess is either Trump TACOs out of the war, or land invasion.
Problem is, what does TACOing out means for this conflict?
Trump declaring the war is over doesn't stop Iran from closing the Strait of Hormuz, the Iranian government decided to do that in reaction to the killing of their head of state, Trump can't exactly bring the Ayatollah back to life in order to get the Iranians to back off.
There's no trust between Iran and the American government after a bunch of failed negotiations and that would be a prerequisite for peace.
I think it might be like the Houthis, technically there was no deal, but both sides silently deescalated. Iran get hurt just as much from the strait being closed, if a chance appears for them to deescalate without having to make any concessions I bet they would take it. Trump can claim tactical victory for taking out Khamenei (and probably claim he destroyed Iran’s nuclear program again), Iran can claim strategic victory for successfully repelling the invasion, and things slowly go back to normal.
Of course, this would objectively be a significant defeat for the USA, as it would show everyone else how far they would be willing to go.
I suspect that for the Iranian leadership it doesn't matter much if they can't afford to rebuild their country. They don't strike me as the sort of folk who'd genuinely care about the nation or their people's well-being.
You never truly know (especially with T2) and this might just be my optimistic side talking, but I have my doubts Trump will actually commit to any large ground invasion.
He tends to prefer quick and easy victories, and TACOS whenever he actually meets resistance, (hopefully) even he knows a drawn out invasion would be suicide for him. Trump doesn’t seem to draw much of a line between personal and foreign relationships either. Whether he likes a country or not depends solely on whether he likes the country’s leader.
If Trump commits ground troops this will be our second Vietnam. Invading Iran will be an even bigger failure than the invasion of Afghanistan.
If there's one place the Iranians have thoroughly prepared to fight the americans, it's on the ground. They never ever had any illusion that they were going to beat them in the air or on the sea.
It'll be a bloodbath. For BOTH sides, but one side is prepared and willing to suffer one to defend their homeland and the other doesn't want a bloodbath of their soldiers, isn't ready for one and doesn't even know WHY they're getting into one.
“Second Vietnam” might be a bit much, Trump would likely just turn tail and run as soon as America meets resistance. I can’t see him investing himself in <2 year conflict.
There’s also the internal Iranian opposition that have to be kept in mind to an extent, sure Iranians are not happy with America and Israel now for obvious reasons, but Iranian government didn’t exactly ingratiate themselves with their people during their extremely brutal crackdowns in January.
Not sure how that stuff will actually pan out, but they could be a serious player if they arm themselves and/or some ambitious Artesh commanders decide to jump ship. This is wild speculation and prolly just some liberal hopium from me. Trump and Bibi will prolly find a way to fuck it up though, as much as I like to stay optimistic.
The “dissident” (cuz fuck the actual gov of Iran) movement would become like the South Viet government. USA would set up a “capital” in whichever city was furthest behind the line and then foment civil war as a combat strategy.
Absolutely won’t be “Vietnam 2.0” strictly speaking but the parallels would be horrific.
It'll be worse than Vietnam, if it ever came close to reaching that point. Which it won't. Americans have grown lax and lazy but this is a different era than the 60's, tens of thousands of bodies coming home in a 'whatever war' isn't going to fly.
The Iranian opposition has no organization to speak of, are also on the receiving end of Israeli air strikes, and the government now has grounds to consider them collaborators with the enemy if they do come out against the state. I really don't see them being much of a factor. Best thing they can do right now is keep their heads down.
Giving all the people who hate your guts even more reason to hate you and then guns is a very very very stupid decision, even by Trump’s practically non-existent standards
Trump can’t turn tail and run though.
His brand and image is built on “strong man”.
This war has fractured MAGA. There are supporters and those who are utterly dismayed at his betrayal. Turning tail and running ironically loses even more support. Because now, on top of everything, he’s a coward too. And there would be no PR spinning that one.
The second Vietnam is an apt comparison because the Iranians are prepared and deeply ready to engage in asymmetric warfare. That’s all they’ve trained for. It’s apt because this may be the most challenging terrain the U.S. has ever had to fight on since Vietnam - except it’s also HUGE.
Iran is built like a natural fortress with the exact type of terrain the U.S. struggled so much with in Afghanistan. And fighting a fiercely anti-American native fighting force like the NV and VC.
Killing the Ayatollah was the exact wrong move, because for as much as Iranians hated their current regime, that was kind of a lightening rod moment. This culture believes in martyrdom and the U.S. gave them one almost immediately. Instead of causing chaos and a power vacuum, what you saw in Iran was telling: they didn’t panic. The didn’t fall into chaos. Millions came out on the streets - not for regime change but to mourn the death of the Ayatollah. And not just in Iran. That took place in other countries too. Most importantly, Iran remain focused and the fight waned a little but they’re still fighting hard.
They’ve drained BILLIONS out of the Americans and it hasn’t even been a full week. I think Vietnam is an apt comparison until we fully understand how long this is going for.
Well, then that’s interesting because without committing to boots on the ground, the U.S. just lost all its leverage in any nuclear treaty with Iran.
With a prolonged conflict, the U.S. will need to put boots on the ground. The air strikes are not doing anything. Iran is still striking everyone on the board.
If they find an off-ramp, any logical regime now sees nuclear deterrence as the only option. If I’m Iran, I just watched the entire world either watch me get jumped at the negotiating table of “international laws and rules based order” and nobody helped, in fact many helped jump me.
So …. Fuck the rules based order. Fuck my neighbors. Fuck everyone. Security and continuity is the upmost rationale and they have every valid reason to now pursue nukes at breakneck speeds - and I bet you something. Once they have them, their America and Israel problems are over. They won’t fuck with them anymore.
Iran is a fortress that is assisting its own siege by closing hormuz and now is begging for a ground war as though there is some benefit to repeating Iraq
There is a benefit for them: it helps them retain their image and control over the country by punishing the U.S. and its allies.
Them fighting the U.S. is the best thing that can happen to the current regime. Surrendering like the Venezuelans is the worst thing - especially in a place like Iran. THAT would cause a power vacuum and civil war type situation.
Fighting the Americans is 1. What they’re prepared for for decades 2. What all the warring factions in charge support and 3. Hurts the Americans and the Israelis. 4. By closing Hormuz, they lose nothing and gain everything because they weren’t going to be trading normally anyway! Lol and also because they get to sell this image domestically of “look at us flex over all these enemies”. That is going to sell great internally and that sort of image and messaging is what gives fuel to guerrilla movements.
The Iranians scored a huge W early on with how they managed this war in the first 7 days: they didn’t panic, they remained focused, they hit NUMEROUS US assets causing BILLIONS in damage. They closed Hormuz. They rejected Trump’s ceasefire. They are bombing the shit out of Tel Aviv. They took the loss of the Ayatollah on the chin. They challenged the U.S. to enter.
They’ve given all the fuel and ammo to retain control. The decapitation strategy of the Israelis and Americans failed (the regime change window is likely completely gone now) and now the entire world is seeing that both Israel and the U.S. are scared to enter the country and do what they claimed they wanted to do. This is going to inspire and fuel local resistance. And they demonstrated to their people that they have the legitimacy to do so.
This is how you lose a war. You lose the plot. Unfortunately, it seems like the American leadership didn’t bother making a plot to begin with.
Apologies I had meant benefit for the US. Of course Iran regime wants US soldiers walking around as targets and symbols of oppression. The US just doesn’t need to occupy Iran. Here’s the plot we all missed. https://www.youtube.com/live/iaE8lw8_x30
Think they care if hormuz stays closed 50 years?
No. Afghanistan was a shitshow, a quagmire, a boondoggle, a lost cause, a defeat… it was a lot of things.
But it wasn’t Vietnam.
Vietnam was unique because it killed A LOT of Americans. Wounded even more. It damaged America’s reputation. Caused it to retreat from military adventures for a while. It caused MASSIVE domestic unrest. It was a generational disaster.
Like ukraine is to Russia.
The problem with this one is that he’s backing himself into a corner. Rubio fucked up and basically admitted we got dragged into this by Israel.
That made Trump look bad. It made him look like he’s not in control. For Trump, that’s absolutely not tolerable. His whole brand is strong man.
Additionally, all reports seem to suggest that he tried to take an offramp with Iran and Iran told him to go to hell.
Also can’t have that for the strong man.
So now he’s in a hell of a situation. He has to find an off-ramp that lets him save face and appear in control AND look like a winner, which is hard at this point… OR go all in and project this image of strength kind of like somebody else we know: Putin.
Both Trump and Putin committed the same mistake. They bit off more than they can chew and their “strong man” image prevents them from taking any options that show weakness.
> Rubio fucked up and basically admitted we got dragged into this by Israel.
Perfect example of why you don’t put dumb-guy zealot oafs like Rubio in important positions, he got flustered under questioning and wasn’t smart enough not to give the game away
He also basically announced that we can’t keep up with demand for interceptors.
Boy, he must have got an earful from Trump because Trump has been going off on the topic for days - which is the best way to see that something they’re saying about the admin/country is likely true.
To have a ground invasion even be somewhat viable, you'd need like 2 million ground troops and divisions spun up that don't exist right now. You'd also need coalition support ala desert strom and Iraq 2003 which does not exist for ground right now
> You never truly know (especially with T2) and this might just be my optimistic side talking, but I have my doubts Trump will actually commit to any large ground invasion.
By this point Trump feels to immune to anything, because for over a decade everything that tried to stop or end his career has failed, that he might probably do it because he thinks his base won't care.
His supporter base doesn't cares about him being a child rapist libertine, so why would they care about an invasion of a long-standing rival of the US?
he already missed one TACO Tuesday though. It seems pretty reliable that he'll do something extreme after trading hours on Friday or on Saturday, letting the big players position themselves in front of the retail traders doing stuff Monday, then roll over on Tuesday once the money has been made.
After Trump spending the entire January hanging NATO over a bottomless pit by a hair thin string, ground invading Iran doesn't even sound outrageous to be honest.
Also, you guys have low presidential popularity and a midterm to distort and manipulate. Seems perfect and fitting, tbh. Putin did the same thing with Ukraine in 2022.
The US and Israel and their perfect plan of "bomb the whole place and hope the government breaks down and the populations overthrows them for you" failed, and now their only choice is to backpedal and try to make this somehow out as a win for them.
Going "boots on the ground" against Iran would be an absolutely insane humiliation for anyone, especially the US, which they know and cannot let happen under any circumstances
>The US and Israel and their perfect plan of "bomb the whole place and hope the government breaks down and the populations overthrows them for you" failed, and now their only choice is to backpedal and try to make this somehow out as a win for them.
Uh, I mean, they took out the top guy in the first 48hrs.
So, maybe give it a minute before you declare it didn't work.
..you are saying this under a news article stating that the iranian government remains stable and refuses to cede any ground...??
Like sorry that your great cool ami toys aren't working, but that last-decade fantasy of "if we just have enough drones and bombs and rockets we can reduce any place in the world into rubble until they do what we say and we never have to step in" isn't actually working, as can be seen very clearly here.
The US took out Maduro but left his regime in place who agreed to negotiate. Assad had to flee Syria and even though the new leader was a jihadist he’s negotiating with Israel and working toward a security agreement.
The US has taken out the top leadership of Iran and while it would love regime change if things shake out that way (and will happily arm rebels), it will settle for negotiating with the secondary and tertiary leaders of the current regime.
>you are saying this under a news article stating that the iranian government remains stable and refuses to cede any ground...??
Yup. Things can change on a dime, and the US and Israel are already off to a very good start when it comes to regime change.
Look at what Israel did to Hezbollah, for example.
It makes no sense to ever negotiate with the USA or Israel again. Both countries have made it clear they'll never honor any agreement. They'll violate any ceasefire the second it becomes inconvenient to them.
Except in the case of Israel, they won't abide by any terms for a single minute anyway. Any "ceasefire" with Israel only applies to the other party to the agreement.
Israel has signed peace treaties with many Arab nations and has honored them since signing, for decades and counting. It gave up the Sinai for peace with Egypt.
No negotiating except surrender with terrorists regimes that kill 40,000 of their own protestors among other atrocities. Or the war continues, their choice!
Just a reminder than Iran has been backstabbed twice now in one year by the us and Israel in the middle of negotiations. They have the right to keep the fight going
After Gavrillo Princep assassinated Franz Ferdinand, it created a crisis historians called the ["July Crisis"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Crisis). While there wasn't any particular assassination last month that lead to this, I do believe the lack of American and Israeli diplomacy in the month of February could go down as a "February Crisis" for the 21st century history.
Personally, i think this whole operation is a huge blunder. This seems set to topple the Trump regime. Trumps options are to TACO again or to get boots on the ground/use the intelligence agencies he butchered to bring loyalists in key positions.
This looks awful alot like a room full of cocaine made the decision to "Alpha-male" the shit, without much of strategic planning. The famous "drunk-1am all in at the casino". The moment americans hear about Trump getting rich by the new financial turmoil, even they have to wake up.
This is total war. USA wants capitulation, as does their attack dog, Israel. Continue to hold back, steadfast, this genocidal pedophilic regime. This is the "Epstein war", waged to try and pour cold water on CONCRETE ALLEGATIONS that Trump and his inner circle composed of rich, pedophilic child rapists. Including Trump himself. I won't forget, I won't forgive.
i guess trump shouldn't have listened to netanyahu and instead left obama's jcpoa in place.
stop engaging with the ziobots, this war isn't over nukes. its about regime change because iran represents opposition to israel's hegemony in the region, which is to say expansion.
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