Retirement insight from those who didn't have the savings the experts recommend

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Gorillapoop3@reddit

We’re in year 5 of my mother’s dementia and her care facility, which is inadequate, is $10k per month. I estimate she’ll live another 5 years. That’s $1.2 million in assisted living costs.

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Now I really want to go to Sailing-Dressage-Artisanal Pastry Camp

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Great points and thanks for the you tuber recommendations!

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speakasone@reddit

Omg, yes! Thank you for sharing and more people need to hear it! There is a balance between the future and current needs.

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EllenIsobel@reddit

I was so ready. Nice best egg saved.

Life hit us ugly with organ failure and medical bills. Probably lose our house in the next year. He can't find work. Im working 50 -70 hours a week.

Life tends to fuck you over sometimes. Gotta keep moving forward.

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mitchelsd@reddit

Don’t you want to say fuck it and move somewhere with actual medical care?

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True-Explanation-490@reddit

every damn day

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EllenIsobel@reddit

Oh yea. But we can't. Not without taking a huge risk.

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True-Explanation-490@reddit

i am very sorry for you both.

i have seen married couple getting divorced so they do not have to absorb the spouse medical debt. we have a really fucked up system

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MundaneHuckleberry58@reddit

Thank you for sharing this (and I’m sorry for what you are going through). I was so discouraged the other day by a different retirement post in here that genuinely made me feel like shit about myself. It was basically “we are 55, have millions saved but should we keep working just to set up our kids’ futures?” hundreds of people commented they have managed to achieve similar results.

We were on the right track. Did everything we were told. Got grad degrees. Saved for retirement starting in our 20s. Worked hard in our fields, arts/education & government. Didn’t earn medical or engineering salaries but we did fine. It was all going to work out.

I became disabled in an accident that wasn’t my fault at 45. It derailed / ended my career & permanently wrecked my retirement trajectory.

There have been a fair amount of Reddit threads on how that statistic is very misleading.

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Stray_Wing@reddit

This makes zero sense. Are these 40% of all Americans even working age or able to work? The math ain’t mathing, but the whining is strong.

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DramaticErraticism@reddit

People who hang out on Reddit are people who are generally employed at various levels. You don't see the other half because you don't live around them and don't hang out where they hang out. There is a lot of poverty but many of us get to avoid it in our suburban living.

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Zestyclose-Smell-788@reddit

I Googled "percentage of Americans that have no savings". This is going to include tens of millions of people who are working their butts off, but live paycheck to paycheck. They are not irresponsible nor are they lazy. They've been dealt an unlucky hand in life.

This is called the just world fallacy, friend.

Imagine doing everything right then your get hit by a drunk driver.

You’re fucked AND broke.

You’re now behind on savings and balls deep in debt and shouldering injuries, loss, etc all at once.

You end up in medical bankruptcy no fault of your own.

How’s that retirement fund going?

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Disastrous-Cow-1442@reddit

I watched people die on 9/11. So I don’t save for retirement. Why should I when I might get hit by a plane or have my head cut off for being the wrong BF place at the wrong time.

25 years later I am not prepared for the retirement I didn’t think will come.

But then this Iran thing happens — a war I didn’t think would ever happen. Now I’m back to wondering why I ever started saving when I should be living life to the fullest.

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The two biggest reasons people can’t retire are lack of health insurance and lack of planning. Both can be planned for if people have the foresight.

I just retired last month at 51. I started planning for retirement in my late teens and early twenties. I knew that I wanted a job with a pension. Not many of those left nowadays. That ment going into the military or public safety. I chose the latter

I contributed 15% of my check to my retirement accounts as well, plus the 4% match the county gave me. I left after 25 years with a $6100/mo pension for life and right at $500k in my retirement accounts, which is doubling about every 6 years and don’t have plans on needing touch that for another 12-15 years.

My wife works a corporate job and she maxes out her 401k yearly. She is two years younger than me and she plans to work another 10 years and she covers our health insurance.

I may go back to work next year if I convince her to retire at 55. I told her I would take everything I make and set it aside to cover Obamacare, which is about $25k/yr for the both of us, until we reach Medicare age.

Actually, living below their means does. It's solid advice at any age.

But... I do see your side in that this poster did give a little bit of a lecture and not overall advice.

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ChiquitaFeisty@reddit

Sure, some of what you said. But most of us also live in the real world, where even when someone makes a “good” salary and starts putting away 15-20% of that good salary away as soon as they can, they might still find themselves unable to cover the gap between what they expected to pay for housing or health insurance and what actual costs are. We will as a society have to reckon with the excess of human avarice and greed at some point, and anecdotes like yours that imply otherwise perpetuate inequality with false belief that it is possible if only you do everything correctly. It is possible to do everything correctly and still fail.

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kool-aid_kid_@reddit

We all live in the real world. The biggest problem is people aren’t willing to save and live below their means. I make $X and must live like I make $X. I’ve told my kids that when they graduate and start their careers that they need to live like they are still a poor college student for a few years to help them get ahead faster. Then as they get their raises, automatically put them in their retirement accounts. You’ll never miss it because you never got use to living on it.

If you have a job making $60k and try to cut to live on $40k it’s going to be tuff. But, if chose to live on $40k to begin with and put $20k a year away, you never knew what it was like to have that $20k. Again it ultimately comes down to lifestyle choices.

Did I do something like this my whole career, no. I could have been farther ahead, but my wife and I also knew we had to live a little and those expenses were planned for accordingly.

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jameybrock@reddit

I'll never retire - mostly by choice, but I also tend to live in the moment and value experiences rather than a bank account.

I am lucky and love what I do - if I do decide to retire, I will go overseas where Social Security will easily cover any and all of my expenses.

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123jjj321@reddit

See, that's the thing. You made a choice to spend the money you "should" have saved for your retirement in your 20s and 30s for the experiences you value. And you accept the consequences. So many whiners on here complaining because they spent their retirement savings having fun.

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jameybrock@reddit

No whining or complaining, here, don't make assumptions like that.

I'll be going to Kenya this fall - and I will value every moment of it, beyond what any future value the cost of the trip would or wouldn't be, by investing.

I have traveled the world and have many memories and stories to tell, that would likely have not happened, if I'd have waited until I am old, immobile and unable to enjoy like I have been able to do in my life.

Please don't project bitterness on my life and experiences, just because they don't align with what you think I "should have done," according to your values.

I wish you well!

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Pretend_Witness_7911@reddit

The 25x guidance is assuming you want to maintain your balance over time (e.g. for children to inherit) and that you won’t have any other income in retirement, such as social security. To get a more realistic number, first find out what you will get from social security and subtract that from your expected expenses. The remainder is what you need to be able to cover from your portfolio. Then, if you aren’t planning to have significant money left when you die, you can consider a more aggressive withdrawal strategy, like 5-6%. This will deplete your savings over time, but at a rate that should cover you for the duration.

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Specialist_Job9678@reddit

How much you need is mostly about the lifestyle that you want to live in retirement, how much debt you have in retirement, and what your expenses will be in retirement. I am nearing retirement and am doing okay on retirement savings, but where a few years ago my target savings was $250,000, thanks to inflation I now find myself thinking that I need at least $300,000, which means that I'm going to have to work at least a couple of years longer than I wanted to. (That's significant at this point, because I'm within three years of when I wanted to retire.) My plan is to have all of my debts paid off and maintain the very modest lifestyle that I have been living (so that I actually can save for retirement.)

Sold home and moved to state with family closer and to help mom as well and planned on working in same field as much as possible. Original diagnosis was incorrect and then testing, nuclear imaging and specialist determined correct condition…Parkinson’s.

I basically was forced into early retirement @ 52. I contributed to retirement, 529, IRA, 401k, stocks, high yield savings accounts, additional towards principle every month (10yr reduction) and such. I purchased a home and used majority of equity as down payment to bring mortgage payments low enough to just have a part time employment if needed.

I have disabilities from military service and that helps some but still living the same lifestyle and not blowing money away. SSA takes approximately 1-2 years to process and I already have permanent parking placards. Vehicles are paid off and I do my own maintenance on petrol and diesel systems when needed.

No need to live in large city, just countryside to relax and planting garden for various fruits, berries, nuts, veggies and such. Slowly saving for rain barrels for garden usage to pay off and asap and not accrue interests on credit cards.

Sorry that you think that. Best day to start saving if you haven't been is today.

mom2artists@reddit

Lol I thought you were raggin on your wife. Took me a minute to get it. 😐 I like living indoors too, ac is sweet. Still I could live in an RV with good ac 🤣

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GeoHog713@reddit

I mean, I am a little.

She definitely has a higher standard of living than I do.

I probably don't REALLY want to live in a tent the rest of my life. That's about what I could afford

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mom2artists@reddit

I used to think I could live with very little amenities. But camping is only fun when you are choosing it, lol!! But I do know some people who don’t think camping is fun at all, so I do think some people are able to tough it out better than others. 🙂

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GeoHog713@reddit

I like camping! I spent a couple summers working at a ranch and sleeping in a tent for weeks at a time. Loved it

My back was 17 then...... Now, 4 days and I'm done

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mom2artists@reddit

Similar. You know how some people tolerate hardship and don’t murmur a word because they don’t want to sound wimpy? Yeah, at least two of the people in my family are not that way. 😐 They are completely unfun to do anything adventurous with.

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GeoHog713@reddit

Momma didn't raise no quitter! I'm gonna do the thing but you're gonna hear all about it

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MajorHasBrassBalls@reddit

She doesn't want to live in a van down by the river?

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GeoHog713@reddit

No. She has an exotic dancer habit.

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Ghosthost2000@reddit

Yeah, I can see that. I tend to get real shabby when I don’t have AC.

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SmallBarnacle1103@reddit

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I couldn't imagine what it would cost 30 some odd years to have a caretaker look after a person. The nursing homes also might be unaffordable as well.

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I_am_irrelevant_99@reddit

You could have used the inheritance money to buy a rental property and then used the income generated to pay the care givers. Then you don’t lose capital. That is how the wealthy do it. That is how we need to start thinking

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I’ve done it.

So I went to community college for $99 a credit hour (early 90’s) and worked.

All my friends had awesome times in college racking up both college loans & cc debt.

Early 20’s worked 2 jobs while I started my career. All my friends were in major metropolitan cities having a kick ass time racking up more debt.

Bought my 1st house at 23 and had two roommates.

Career started taking off at 26 which I’m still in. Started 401k. Got married and still married.

Bought house together lived at for 8 years. Then built a modest house in 2010 during the recession. Still in and almost paid off.

Could have bought a bigger crib but shit, my house is still 3x bigger than the ranch I grew up in.

I have a small biz that I’ve worked 60 hr weeks for the last 20+ years. My career peaked in 2023 and I know it.

So I’m 3-5 years off of legit retirement. I’ve lived below my mean my entire adult life. I’ve still enjoyed life but just the last few years have we started taking really nice vacations. Raising the kids we did the driving all night to get to the Florida.

I’m in the top % of early retirees.

It’s been through hard work, discipline, staying married and self education. Read a few books from the Rich Dad Poor Dad series. They had a huge impact on my financial outlook.

I can’t wait to go back to being John Bender once I’m done working.

SaltyIntroduction373@reddit

Sounds like a life well planned--enjoy! 🌅

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ConjunctEon@reddit

Relative to your income, and monthly burn.

Get with a fiduciary, understand where your money is going and what your options might be.

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RetireWithoutBorders@reddit

Hmm, never really calculated.

I retired about 18 months ago at 55. My beautiful young bride retired seven months ago at 56.

My house is a single story four bedroom model and paid off. Bought it in 2001 for $305,000. It is currently valued at about $1.2M. However I have no intention to sell.

I have three cars, the 2022 is newest and paid off. The other two are a 1999 and a 2017.

Our son graduated university with no debt by living at home and going to a state university.

We travelled to Europe with him twice as well as Mexico, Belize, Canada, and England.

We each have a pension as well as 401k's.

Not really a problem. Just don'r spend too much.

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SheriffBartholomew@reddit

Not really a problem. Just don'r spend too much.

I’ve been fortunate. I’ve had two employers as an adult, working in IT. My wife has an excellent career and makes slightly more than I do. We both have the old school “three legged school” of a traditional pension, 401K, and Social Security. She’s the real detail planner and has us on schedule to retire at 60.

Never heard that one; hilarious!

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Praire_Devil@reddit

I’m trying to picture waking up dead

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SparkleLifeLola@reddit

That's a common phrase in the south, at least in Texas and Alabama.

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norfolkgarden@reddit

And Virginia

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C4tbreath@reddit

Me too. I guess you can't sleep in the afterlife.

That sucks.

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Embarrassed-Ad-1432@reddit

We are buying houses to rent out. We have/are doing one house a year - except this year (maybe, depends upon other factors). We figure we'll have 10-12 homes at retirement age. Also I took another job within a local government (county) where I'll get 75% of my salary and will be able to pay for benefits at the employ rate at 15 years of service. I have nine years left before this happens. I think we'll be making more $$ when we retire than while we work.

rfriend73@reddit (OP)

Seriously, I am not sure what happened or if I asked the question the wrong way. 99% of responses have been either generic investing advice or brags about how much money people had saved above the recommended levels

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Gloomy-Database4885@reddit

Don't focus on a multiple of your current salary. You need to forecast your expenses (what you need to spend each year in retirement). You can keep it simple and multiply times 25x or do a time series for time buckets (Go go years, slow go years, no go years). Boldin and other packages can help.

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SheriffBartholomew@reddit

How are you supposed to retire at 53 with only ten years of salary? I sure hope you live longer than that! I'm so far behind that I have no idea if I'll ever get to retire. Living through four once in a lifetime financial catastrophes is hard.

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strangertimes22@reddit

This is so sad to me that the way retirement savings works is not common knowledge, particularly in a group for middle aged people.

I'm more or less counting on an inheritance to fund my retirement. It won't be a ton, but I know how to live within my means. On the other hand there's no guarantee that money won't be needed/spent by the person currently in possession of it and, of course, it's their's to spend. Unfortunately, even if they don't spend it, there's no guarantee that it'll be worth much when the time comes. I fear the dollar is going to take a dive before then.

...If all else fails, I have the Sig Sauer backup retirement plan.

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Rambler1277@reddit

Not funny

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7toedcat@reddit

It wasn't meant to be.

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Mlturner28@reddit

The way to make those savings go farther is to go to a country with a super low cost of living. Hello Vietnam? Of course expats could be screwed if the president keeps pissing off allies and business partners. Just saying it’s a risk. If I didn’t have the money I would seek a lower cost environment.

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FallOutGirl0621@reddit

I'm thinking of retiring overseas. It's the only way as a single person that you can make it.

My biggest expense involves property taxes followed by healthcare. I can be thrifty with groceries and content with most of what I have. I can't fix the astronomical taxes that keep increasing due to the other social programs needed.

I just want to say....fuck cancer.

37 years old means a 20 year enlisted pension, and speaking from experience, it is barely enough to support one person in extreme frugality/poverty - nowhere near enough to support a family. (Mine if currently $2500/month after taxes and deductions)

I'm sorry that your lawyer didn't know the nuances of military pensions and benefits, because I can think of at least three things the government is perfectly okay with you getting if a judge orders it. (A percentage of the pension, remaining the Survivor Benefit Plan beneficiary, and ordering him to provide healthcare for his children through Tricare Select. The current annual premium is under $200)

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WasabiChickpea@reddit

No lawyer. Couldn't afford it. Where we were living allowed you to file yourself. The kids do have health insurance under him though.

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TheRealJim57@reddit

Damn. That's rough.

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VixenTraffic@reddit

Same

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tbojustin@reddit

If your birth year starts with a “2” and you happened to stumble on this thread: read these comments. Especially the bleak ones.

Start now. Right now.

Today.

Even a little compounds into a lot.

When you’re young: you have the most valuable thing in investing: time.

I’m 48 and have been contributing for my entire professional life. 50% of my net worth now came from small contributions in the first 10 years of work.

In other words, if I would have waited until my 30th birthday to start: I’d only have half of what I have now.

That’s because what was in my account when I was 30 has doubled roughly 3 times. That’s 8X return using mostly low cost index funds.

Most of these comments have a flavor of “the system is rigged”. Maybe, but you can take advantage of it.

so you just spend all your money never saving anything? That's kinda reckless, honestly. All those commercials about 'unknown bills' must be for you.

8%? The govt takes 50 percent.

I have enough money to quit my job and liver comfortably the rest of my life.

dezzodezzo@reddit

Those are my circumstances. Illness forced me to retire a few years earlier than planned. It also wiped out most of my savings. I’m living off of 2x salary. It’s ok right now, but if I live another 10 years I’ll be in trouble. The good/bad is it’s not likely I’ll live that long (that would be 18 years with an illness that generally kills in 7-10 years). Living that long is 3 standard deviations from the norm. However, there have been great advances. Doctors are now speaking of it as a “managed disease” instead of “terminal”. On the plus side, I have a nice house and a nice wife. The latter is younger than me and will not retire for another 8-10 years … unless she gets sick, too.

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Quin35@reddit

If they were earning that since their 30s.

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zippy_08318@reddit

No. If they’re earning that now. I’ve been saving since my thirties when I was making like 30k and saving 2 or 3 each year. I’m nearing retirement and obviously earn / save more but I’ll have way north of that by the time I finally retire

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Fluffy_Ring9699@reddit

I’ll retire at 70 with about a 3 million portfolio to live off of before social security. I’m trying to live way below my means after spending too much in my 40s. I want to leave money for my daughter.

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Necessary-Spend7227@reddit

I turn 60 this year, been married 37 years. I'm sitting with 1.1 Million in a 401k. I'll also get a pension and have a side gig that when I retire will replace at least half my salary. Looking to retire at 61 and turn the side gig to full time, gives me something to do and the wife and I enjoy doing this together. We have everything paid, no mortgage, no car payments and no credit card balance. It wasn't easy we struggled in the early years but lived simply within our means. I never grossed more than 100k at my job until just a few years ago, I did this retirement saving with a wife ( who only ever worked part time), two kids and helped one kid with college.

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wanderingdev@reddit

What is your goal? You control your annual spend, so 25x that is whatever you want it to be.

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6glough@reddit

Why do they calculate so much? When I retire my house will be paid for, I’m happy driving my 12 year old Honda, I have no expensive hobbies, my kids all live nearby and I don’t care to travel. Why would I need 10x my income?

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We got a home at 29yo, it has $25k left.
We got another 10 years ago, paid off. Both worth about $320k after selling. The other rents at $1800 per month. We have 8-9 years to wait for SS, and that in today’s dollars is about $4700 combined before taxes.

We have no real savings. One car paid, the other is newer, $25k on it.

This area was way out and now is IN the thick growth. Went from 4000 ppl to 55k in 30 years. So it’s expensive to live here now. We are close to downtown. How long we can afford to, IDK. If we can stretch, maybe the rent will increase enough to afford it? Maybe at 75yo we sell and live off it? We have a little wiggle room.

So we’re not eating dog food. But we never travelled on state job salaries. Don’t like to be out of our own beds anyways, so we day hop. Don’t know other languages so moving to Italy or Costa Rica is a semi-dream but likely not. New digital glasses can translate in real time for $1000 but you have to leave your possessions behind to live abroad. Ie I have a music studio built up over decades. I’d have to fold down to 2 guitars, keyboard and fancy laptop, kind of thing to move abroad where internet and electricity and AC isn’t really a stable thing.

We set ourselves up to not eat dog food. Our daughter at 28yo is a bit needy, but we only give what is comfortable when we desire to help. She will inherit, so… not worried about her future.

The big concern is if one or both of us have dementia and the state takes the homes. So we’re need to insulate this “generational wealth” for our daughter who will likely squander it but she will have been setup better than us.

You don’t need 10-25x in the bank IF you have a pension from a government or rare private job.

The key to any wealth is investment. The one house we got was $153k and blew up to $350k so choosing location and right timing is past judgement, ability and luck. So there is equity there we would have had the ability to sav.

Short point is: we knew ourselves, planned around our short comings, stayed faithful. Wife has several chronic issues and surviving breast cancer so we can handle those payments on Insurnace and she’s a Viking and proceeds like it’s no big deal. I don’t have her strength. I got a cold now and feel like aim dying, lol. I’m told it’s a “man thing”.

No easy answers if you didn’t plan at 22yo like we did and don’t have inheritance coming.

My best advice is, if you always have to work, is when you’ve had enough of the rat race, our gen and boomers are old and need helpers. Not medical but companions and some life help (folding laundry, getting groceries, going to a movie) and ppl will pay $16-40 dollars an hour just to have someone come into their life for 4 hours a few days per week. My wife does this now that she retired from teaching and… she is the happiest I’ve ever seen her! It’s about connections with ppl.

IF you start such a business, aside of the hassle of scheduling and accounting, you can make good side money, feel fulfilled, help people, and keep going, outside the rat race.

I know 80% of this doesn’t help, but maybe it kicks an idea in your head that IS helpful?

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Ok well, I’m maybe not your intended answerer, but these are my older genX thoughts to salvage what you can.

Sell off all your collectibles. Whatever they are, your kids don’t want them but someone on eBay does. Buy an acre or two and put a small house on it with a heat sink, well, and septic. Use a mini-split, not an hvac system. Be content with a solid pantry and a couple deep freezers. Add some shop buildings as money allows for hobbies.

Put current house on market once new place is figured out. But do it sooner rather than later before property prices readjust.

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gotchafaint@reddit

I’m looking to do this but where is the question. Where is land affordable where you won’t be buried in snow and are close enough to city/medical?

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Criseyde2112@reddit

It's a dilemma, isn't it? I would like to live somewhere else after my husband retires, but I don't want to be near a place with wildfire threat. I've had it with the hurricane risk, too (been through more than I can count), plus it's just unbelievably hot in Texas, even just 15 miles from the coast.

gotchafaint@reddit

That’s helpful thank you!

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Right_Fun_6626@reddit

I’ve considered semi-rural Ohio, it’s got several cities within reach most spots. Wisconsin is too damn cold but I like it besides that.

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456name789@reddit

I love WI, but I also love the cold, lol!

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Criseyde2112@reddit

There are so few people living in the rural areas of the Midwest that it wouldn't take many voters to turn the area blue.

I'm not saying you did the wrong thing, but one thing that people don't think about is that in general the need for life insurance should diminish as you advance in age, especially if you can divert the money spent into retirement savings.

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mom2artists@reddit

Yes this exactly. This post has me so sad today.

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Alternative-Pin5760@reddit

Sounds like y’all need to have a serious talk. This is not going away and you still have time to make a dent.

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Key-Stick3478@reddit

This is why I never married.

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_genepool_@reddit

Depends on how you want to live and where you live now.

If you live in a hcol area, you can move somewhere cheaper and your equity can add to your savings. If you live in a lcol area already your options are more limited.

I will have almost what they recommend for retirement because I started early and didn't touch it even through a bankruptcy. I married and had kids later (40), this pushes my retirement date to 64 years old to get the kids through college hopefully.

The big worry is usually your health and insurance, especially if you retire before Medicare kicks in.

There are many retirement YouTube videos from people who retired modestly. Buzzs retirement garage, 500kretirearly, are examples.

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squirtloaf@reddit

"your equity"

Kitchen_Page9991@reddit

This!!! They'll have voters frothing at the mouth if they pull that shit. Same thing happened in 1983. They fixed it fast.

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GboyFlex@reddit

Perfect timing!! I planned on retiring in 2034. I'll just rent out bedrooms to other broke X'ers O.o

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Able_Original_486@reddit

If Social Security goes broke, what would happen is not that it would just disappear, but there would be reduced benefits. The politically easiest way to do this would be to simply jack up the age of retirement. It's already been rising as it is, full retirement pay for us is not at 65 - I think mine's at 67 or 68. The other way would be to reduce payments which is politically much harder.

However, what I think would happen is that congress gets their act together and fixes it. The political system may be broken, but facing literal riots in the street has a way of focusing politicians' attention. That's why we seem to always walk right up to the edge of the cliff, peer over and then step back a little. Usually.

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Successful-Winter237@reddit

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Opposite-Peak5020@reddit

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My parents said finances weren't any of my business and that we were poor.

Plot twist: we weren't poor, they were frugal and apparently had a great strategy they didn't share with us.

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Playamonkey@reddit

Oof

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bonkersyeti@reddit

Currently 54, and I'm planning to retire at 62. My husband is likely to wait and retire at 65 or 66. Between the two us, we're likely to have about $1M or so in our combined 401Ks at that point. I'll qualify for health insurance benefits through my current job in retirement, he won't. Our house will be paid off entirely, and it's likely both of us will see very small inheritances when our parents die.

The plan is to liquidate everything and move to somewhere outside the US, wherever will give us the highest quality of life at the lowest price point and an easy visa. Staying in the US just isn't an option. It's too expensive, and I'm not crazy about the political direction. We can do better. If we're able to pull this off, I feel good about having the money we need for a decent retirement period.

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resurrectedNaj@reddit

So just abandon family? Or you don’t have any?

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lipgloss_addict@reddit

Wtf. Why are the choices to you abandonment or no family? Aren't you a ray of sunshine?

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resurrectedNaj@reddit

Because most people with children or immediate family cannot just liquidate and leave. Or atleast shouldn’t for that matter.

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MrAskani@reddit

Says who??? Their life, their choices! Kids turn into adults who lead their own lives.

My oldest is only 11 and i am already excited to be a grandpa. And help all my kids out with their babies

That is very different from your first comment saying you would move away if you mad more money.

I would never move thousands of miles away from my family unless we had mountains of unknown income.

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resurrectedNaj@reddit

I personally wouldn’t, and meant more of a standard/recommendation unless you had mountains of money. Because with those mountains, you’d most likely have a private jet and availability to drop any work related issues at a dime. But it’s just not reality to most of the world

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jameson71@reddit

Most retired folks don;t have to work, and as we previously established plane tickets are cheap.

So as you said, it comes down to a choice of being an unpaid baby sitter (and quite possibly annoying your child's spouse) or low cost of living.

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resurrectedNaj@reddit

Plane tickets are not cheap. Rentals and Ubers are not cheap. Hotels aren’t cheap.

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BODO1016@reddit

Don’t wait to do stuff until you retire! Do whatever you can whenever you can, if you have the money to pay for a small trip and the time, do it! Always wanted to learn a new skill? Take a class! Do it while you still have the mobility and the brain juices flowing. Visit with friends and family.

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DramaticErraticism@reddit

This is what me and my wife did, we travelled the world in our mid 30s-40s. We had the time of our life. No matter what happens, we will always have those memories and experiences.

Would love to see your math. Most analyses I’ve seen suggest 4-4.7%, depending on your investment portfolio, and can be higher. Maybe slightly lower if you need the money to last 40-50 years.

I have about twice my annual income saved. And am adding about another year's worth every 2 years. Probs retire with 4-5 year income saved up.

I figure I will be able to augment SS enough to get through on some sort of deluxe dogfood diet in a cheap state, but not in L.A. where I live.

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Nicola_Marshal@reddit

California's taxes are a huge headache.

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squirtloaf@reddit

It's not the taxes, it is that everything is priced for successful people at the top of their game.

The crappy little 2br/1000 sq ft houses on my street here are 1.2 Million in a non-fancy neighborhood. Same house in a place like Michigan is 1/10th-1/6th the price.

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No-Reading-4384@reddit

As a physician I want to caution you guys not to wait too late. I retired at 70 last year, but I’m still dabbling and working. I’m an anesthesiologist so I have opportunity. Do I want to hit it eight hours a day ? no but I can’t tell you how many patients that I’ve seen that have told me face up that they were ready to retire and they are going to go with their wife all over the country in their RV and do that deal and then they got lung cancer or some other shit cut those plans to the quick so if you’re even in that ballpark, do it sooner than later because health always plays a big part in this decision

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DramaticErraticism@reddit

My grandparents did that, retired at 55, sold their house and drove around an RV until they couldnt do it anymore (around 75), they both died about a year later.

Nowadays, folks can't get medicare until late 60s, that's not a lot of time left to live your dreams.

I went an alternate route, I spent a bunch and travelled the world already. I won't retire early, but I've seen and done many things. No matter what happens, at least I have that.

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ackshualllly@reddit

Agreed. Lawyer here, got close to 50 and abruptly sold my practice. I have a chunk of money but I also know how to swing trade to supplement.

Neither one of my parents lived to 'retirement age'.

So when looking at the options, I'm definitely going to take the earliest I can if I even get to that point.

Caroline_Anne@reddit

When planned correctly, you don’t even need multiple streams of income.

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Top-Molasses7661@reddit

That's cute that you think you can control everything about how your children turn out and all the decisions they make, particularly about how and with whom they choose to live.

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Simple_Ranger_574@reddit

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Retired at 65 and ner looked back. SS is 3400/month and have about 400k in different accounts. So far lliving my life worry free. What interesting is my accounts haven't decreased that's to interest and stock growth. That could change but I'll adjust as needed. My advisor told me to spend more and live life.

That wasn't my experience.

In 8th grade they made a big deal about teaching us how to properly write a check, but they didn't say anything about maintaining a balance sheet.

A friend took a home economics class, and they learned about budgeting, but not much. I didn't have that class, so i can't say how valuable that was.

I remember my chemistry teacher railing about how you can't trust the stock market. He said it was like gambling in Vegas. Nobody mentioned mutual funds. I didn't know what a mutual fund was until much later.

Nicola_Marshal@reddit

A rainbow always appears after the storm.

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Comfortable_Fudge559@reddit

I’m so sorry. It’s such a horrible situation. I wish you the best

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Rushedhomeroughyn@reddit

I’m gonna be another person who doesn’t really answer your question, but this made me laugh because I literally was just running numbers this morning. I’m also almost 53(may)

My financial planner told me I need a certain number, but realistically I’ll probably have about two thirds or so of that when I semi retire in around seven years. I still plan on working though. I own my own business and can keep earning at some level, and hopefully my wife will as well(also self employed).

I also don’t really think about “full retirement” in the traditional sense. With my business I can structure things so it’s not an every day, all day job, which changes the math quite a bit.

I guess my point in all this is that even if you work for someone else and cannot consult or do something on your own, if you do not quite have what you think you need, part time work can make a big difference. Whether it is working at a grocery store or running cars for a dealership like my grandfather did after he retired(did not need to), it can help in a lot of ways.

The people I know who have pulled this off in recent years also had substantial home equity, mostly from owning in areas that had massive booms in real estate prices after they bought in the 1990s. So when they retired they didn't have enough liquid/investable assets until they downsized. They sold their homes (all in west coast cities in these cases), walked away with $500-750K, and bought much smaller, cheaper homes far inland. That left them with $300K or so "left over" which they could add to their retirement nest egg.

At 26 after leaving the military, I started my career in Telecom. It's a good union job with a pension and company match 401k.

I dont think most people realize that just doing matching on a 401k with average re turns will get you retired in 35 to 40yrs.

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FallOutGirl0621@reddit

I know social security probably won't be around when we retire. Or according to the SS office, right now my statement says I will get 80% of what I should be due. Many people have to work at Walmart because they always had very low paying jobs, years being unemployed, or didn't claim all their income on taxes.

You need 35 years of good income to have enough to even cover 3/4 of your expenses. Most people don't have that many years. If you only worked for 10 years, that's 25 years of zeros added in and divided. This is the reason some people have to work later in life. I know people who fudged their taxes and had nothing to retire on.

I blame the government on the social security issue. It was NEVER supposed to be borrowed from by the government. When this happened everyone got screwed. When I think about the money I paid in if it had been properly invested, retirement would not be an issue.

IF social security is around, I only have to work 6 more years so my history of low earnings drops off. I also have a 401k, but that won't cover everything if social security goes away.

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CompleteTell6795@reddit

It depends on what you read. Let's say you make $45K gross per yr. That's $450K $45k x 10. If you add in what you have in your retirement portfolio, plus Social Security per month, pension if you have one. Equity in your house, etc, savings account. Then you have more than $450K?. Me, personally, I add everything up, not just what's on the W2. It also depends on how much you want to live the high life after you retire. Expensive top of the line international vacations. 80 day round the world cruises. If that does not really appeal to you, then I don't think you need a million dollars in retirement.

AnitaLatte@reddit

We went to a financial advisor who is a fiduciary. We got recommendations from coworkers and checked his credentials. He did a one-time analysis of all our assets, savings, spending, future planning like remodels or car replacements, and came up with a detailed analysis that showed the probability of a successful retirement.

Financial advisors have computer models that evaluate over 300 different scenarios of things that can happen in retirement. They have insights and strategies on spending and taxes that financially savvy people would not think of.

We ended up being more than ready for retirement before 65, and we could actually have retired a few years earlier had we known. It was definitely worth it to get professional advice.

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KookyPiccolo1661@reddit

People love to DIY via Reddit for this, and if you have the time that can work. But for us using a financial advisor has worked great. The computer models really help, and he has the time and expertise to know where to move things as markets fluctuate.

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VeganDogPro@reddit

This. We did the same. At mid life (42F and 48M), I had just crawled out of debt and had a meager savings. My not-yet husband had been through a divorce and lost a bit more than have his retirement assets. On top of that, I was self-employed, he got laid off, and I had a house worth shit. So, yeah. Not looking good.

We had a very trusted financial planner that had worked with other members of our family, all who went before me retired securely. He ran our numbers as described above. We got a budget. Then we also admittedly got some good fortune. Husband landed a lovely job. I focused on building my business (17% growth last year 😊).

We stuck to it all and I think we will be safe and ready to retire in just a few more years. I know this isn’t exactly what you were asking for but just wanted to share that sometimes things looks shit and workout anyway.

Good luck with your retirement! I wish you all the best.

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Use AI , it can aid you. It will calculate what you need and how to invest in 401ks and other retirement plans

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grandma-activities@reddit

My mom (75 now, retired at 65) barely had any savings at retirement. What she did have -- and still has -- are a state pension from her career at the city and a Social Security check every month. Those two sources of income total more than her old salary. She's also working with a fantastic financial advisor to grow her formerly meager savings through investments. She has a modest mortgage (a converted HELOC, short-term) that I help her pay, her car is paid for, and she doesn't have any expensive hobbies or anything. She's living just fine, knock on wood.

I... I do not yet have a plan beyond my 401(k) and maybe an investment property once the market cools a little more. I probably need to get up with my mom's financial guy.

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iLikeMangosteens@reddit

The boomers will suck social security dry. Assume you’ll get zero and if you do get something from it, treat yo’ self to a filet ‘o’ fish with it.

Also assuming that few GenX’ers have a real pension like boomers did.

You may live longer than boomers, and healthcare and personal care will be more expensive than what boomers pay.

Which country, if you don’t mind me asking?

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Ed98208@reddit

Netherlands, but up in Friesland, not in the Randstad (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht, The Haag). One of these days I'm going to cash in my equity and move to Spain, though. The weather is dreary here.

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Notjewel2@reddit

Damn, Spain sounds so nice right now. Greetings from NC and cheers to living your best life. Hope you make it there soon.

I’m 52, occupational therapist in hospitals and homes and oh how I wish to not be one anymore.

You go live the dream for some of us forever-working boobs.

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UndrwhelmingGenitals@reddit

Lots of countries need healthcare workers, just saying 😉

FallOutGirl0621@reddit

I took the 80% directly from my actual 2025 social security statement. So the social security office apparently got it wrong. I thought it was a little optimistic.

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RemarkablePaint7242@reddit

We actually caught ourselves in our early 40’s and went to a Finacial Advisor. They do a fine job investing our money (we meet once a month) and we have a thick cushion. That being said, you don’t have to have 12 x your income, if you are ok with working a few hours per week and cut back on expenses.

We are not willing to do that. When I say “we” I mean my husband, 😂. I have a small business that I run, with flexible opening hours and my customers know if the door is locked they can call me and I open it… I only lock it when it gets dark 😂… and my customers are the best. Not brick and mortar, just a SheShed 😂 where I sell my pieces. We love to travel and being empty nesters after 4 children, we love to just get up and go.

My husband is ready to retire but he will work another 4 years, because the income difference is huge, even with a cushion.

However, seeing the economy … our children all started a Roth Account as soon as they started working. They also started using the same financial adviser and there plan is quite impressive and they still have fun money :)) They have a much better head start than we did. We used to be horrible at saving and spent much more than we should have. It got scary for a while, we thought we lost our house. That’s when we got serious about saving.

We will remind you of that when the time comes. You may change your mind as to what is 'acceptable' as the scale slowly slides lower. And even if you have the stones for it. Is someone else going to be screaming/crying saying No you can't? Lol, even if they financially benefit.

And it needs to be done 'early' rather than later. You need to be there already. Not when you are no longer capable of even getting on an airplane.

I put as much as possible into my 401k, then put a little more. Learned to live with less for now. Then I educated myself on investing, started with a $1000 3 years ago and now trading with $75000, not earth shattering, but I make enough each month to replace most of my income from my job.

Point being, it takes some work and commitment. I retire in a few months at 60.

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Far_Statement_1827@reddit

Where do you recommend going for a crash course? I have all my money in mostly index funds and growth funds.

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Dark_Night_9067@reddit

Most retirement plan companies, ie. Schwab, Vanguard, etc have training material on their web pages that you can access for free, pick something that interests you and read whatever is available. For me it was stock options. I don’t get fancy or greedy, but we pay for our weekend dinners out from the earnings. And I keep reading more, trills, bonds, weekly dividend payers, monthly dividends, quarterly dividends. Knowledge is wealth

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Far_Statement_1827@reddit

Amen to that. It’s so overwhelming I have always let my FA take care of it.

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Dark_Night_9067@reddit

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Dark_Night_9067@reddit

deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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Busy_Conversation537@reddit

Read that

I put as much as possible into my 401k, then put a little more. Learned to live with less for now. Then I educated myself on investing, started with a $1000 3 years ago and now trading with $75000, not earth shattering, but I make enough each month to replace most of my income from my job.

Point being, it takes some work and commitment. I retire in a few months at 60.

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Busy_Conversation537@reddit

"I started with one thousand three years ago and am now trading with seventy five thousand"

My wife and I had a similar experience, so I know it is possible. When we got serious about finances we paid off all debt, then shifted into investing.

I had recently finished college and started a new career. We had $0 invested, and few thousand in the bank. We started saving a large portion of our income which was about $30k that first year, and progressively invested more nearly every year. Im certain we had more than $75k after 3 years.

DaoFerret@reddit

We’re lucky if it’s long term care.

Experts recommend having 10 - 12 x times your annual salary in savings (!?).

52 M (53 in a few weeks) and so tired of work and the rat race.

Just want to point out that if you check out the rat race now , you are giving up some sweet, sweet compounding.

Between age 53 and 65, if your money had a 6% real rate of return over inflation, it would double. So you would have twice as much money - in constant dollars.

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Mark_Underscore@reddit

And 12 less years to live

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norfolkgarden@reddit

Irrelevant unless they have cancer now. Most of us will make it to 65-70 at least. He may live even longer.

And no offense meant to OP, but he sux with money already. No savings at 53 ?!?!? WTF. He's going to be home and bored and spend money he doesn't have. That's stupid me doing it at 62. That's a disaster at 53! I debated and ran the math about every year. It's bad enough to quit a decent paying job 3 years early with decent health just to enjoy the time. 10 years early loss of income with paying for health insurance on top of that for 12 years doesn't even math. (Lol, with shit for savings on top of that?!?!?!) Even my fantasies aren't that hallucinatory.

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EffectiveVarious8095@reddit

fewer

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dying-of-boredom1966@reddit

I'm not the only one this bothers thankfully!

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ItselfSurprised05@reddit

No argument from me on that point.

I was merely pointing out some retirement math that OP might have been overlooking.

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Raz0r-@reddit

The things people don’t normally read.

The salary multiplier is intended only to be one source of information that may help you assess your retirement income needs.

The replacement annual income target is defined as 45% of pre-retirement annual income and assumes no pension income.

Alycion@reddit

We have two side businesses. The first, started in 96, could have supported us if we wanted to take the leap. And we could easily ramp it to do so if needed.

The second, a hobby out of control, is already doing well. It started a little over a year ago. Selling 3D prints. We do toys and decor stuff like that online and at local markets. And b2b stuff. The b2b is becoming a fast favorite with clients of my existing business. Markets have been good. One monthly costs us around 50 to set up in. If we don’t break 2k, it’s a bad day for that market.

Hubby had some inheritance, too. We invested/saved most of it. Upgraded computers for business 1 (decades before business 2), did some home improvements that shot our value up, he took me to mayo clinic to try to get answers, but the rest has been building a retirement fund nicely.

He can’t not work. His head gets messy when it’s not. But we are setting ourselves up to work the fun stuff when we want to. We can use the business to travel to markets out of state and work vacations in. I’ve got a few teens from other markets that when they are a couple years older, I’d love to hire to be a second setup. The one knows our stuff better than i do some days. He helps with setup and breakdown. He’ll help with the booth when we get overloaded. His grandmother hired him to help vendors, as she runs the market. She doesn’t want us paying him, as she does. So I just let him pick products and give them to him. And I printed him a game that I was selling that he liked. He’s handled cash transactions for us when we were swamped before. I trust him.

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SoulStripHer@reddit

Just use a retirement calculator like cFIREsim.

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NovaBlazer@reddit

I think your planned lifestyle and living arrangements needs to come into the conversation before the 10x-20x principle is utilized.

I live in a top 10 most expensive market in the United States. If I want to stay here through my retirement, I will absolutely need that 10x current salary to retire on.

But, we don't want that. We want to downsize, move to a much smaller place in a new part of the country where costs are far less expensive. Then RV around North America and travel to Europe.

I modeled all this out and it means that I can retire at 5x my salary. Which oddly, is now...

Do some modeling, don't just listen to the peanut butter advice that is given to everyone.

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Busy_Conversation537@reddit

"I started with one thousand three years ago and am now trading with seventy five thousand"

Your words ummyday

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mcjon77@reddit

I'm 49 and I'm going to tell you the solution to this that I learned 20 years ago, but it's still applicable even if you're just getting started right now.

First embrace minimalism then Retire abroad. That's it.

Even if you start saving now, assuming you have social security too, there is a country on this planet with a low cost of living that can be met by your social security, and also provides a good quality of life.

Now, the more money you have saved up or with a pension the more countries you have as options, but as long as you have some kind of income (like social security) there are places where you can live comfortably.

Regarding embracing minimalism, you don't have to go crazy so that everything you own is in the backpack. You just have to learn to be less focused on acquiring more things. Things cost more than experiences, because you have to store things someplace, which means you need a bigger place to live or you have to spend a few hundred dollars a month on a storage locker.

Stop buying things and start getting rid of things now. Put it on eBay or Craigslist and every dollar you make from selling something put it in your retirement fund.

The first time I saw a guy do this I was 29 years old in Costa Rica. This dude was living a comfortable life in a nice apartment on just his social security. He had a vastly more full wife than 98% of all of the senior citizens I've seen before or since. Costa Rica's got more expensive since then, but there's still a ton of other places like mexico, ecuador, thailand, Vietnam, etc.

OblateBovine@reddit

I think 10-12x your salary is a poor rule of thumb. Whether you can retire depends on several factors, chiefly your expenses, expected future income (including social security, pension, part time work, etc), and how many years you estimate you'll live after retirement. Your investment mix matters too. To put all this together and try to answer 'do I have enough', you need to use a retirement calculator that adjusts for inflation like https://firecalc.com/ or https://www.cfiresim.com/.

As others have mentioned, reducing your expenses can help quite a bit. If you're in the US, healthcare is definitely part of the calculation and if you can retire comfortably on income under 400% of FPL, you can get a subsidized healthcare plan on https://www.healthcare.gov/.

https://www.aarp.org/money/taxes/tax-breaks-after-50/

What I see is additional catch-up contributions to retirement accounts plus perhaps HSA catch-up contributions if you have one of those. And those could drive you down a tax bracket too.

Not sure if that's what they meant or if there's more that I don't know about yet.

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AccomplishedCash3603@reddit

Yes, that's the name - catch up contributions. An experienced financial planner will help you identify everything you're eligible for.

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Marry a younger woman.

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maimou1@reddit

Omg, this is my husband's advice to young men. Except he advises to "marry a younger woman and put her through nursing school" which he did with me. The young guys just stare at him and will sometimes call him a genius. I guess he is!

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glazzyazz@reddit

Oh yes, nurse with a purse. We women really love old decrepit men with no money that are substantially older than us and offer us nothing but diapers and pill boxes. To hell with that.

I have nowhere near the "minimum" required saving or investments. I do, however, have property in a LCOL country where I plan to retire. The math is just different there. I can live large on $2000/month.

Hahahahahahha....

No seriously I'm fucked. No home (we rent) still paying on a car, no other equity or assets. Living paycheck to almost paycheck. Have retirement investing options open but lack the spare income to save. Even with saving that method, combined with SS and future work pension (if I don't croak first..) not enough to live on. So can never retire.

Not for a lack of desire or ignoring "experts", some of us just never could get out from behind the rock holding us back...good on the people who will make it though, just not me...

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AriadneThread@reddit

There is always a way. Friends of mine bought a tiny home with a 15 year loan, and pay a small amount to park it at a widow's property.

There are states looking for good workers. Not in the sexiest of places, but whatever. Like Kansas, Iowa. Research "least expensive places to live" and see what might work for your family.

A single woman at my office bought a small house and takes in 2 boarders, who basically pay for her mortgage.

If you have kids, determine what's least expensive, daycare or parent at home with a side gig. It's literally comparable these days with daycare costs.

I have a shabby 2005 Subie. Do I care? No. I take that car payment $ I save and put it towards savings. Only risk is car breakdown, but that's what savings go to if it happens.

These are all just ideas. Some might be dumb, but better to brainstorm than nothing. Take care.

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lazytiger40@reddit

We arent looking for a big home. Considering our age it's more to leave the kids than for us. But you need three things to get any home, credit, debt to income, down payment. My credit isn't there yet but I'm getting close. Debt to income is tricky since high car payment (can't refinance) and rent takes 50-65 percent of my income (depending on how good my hours are etc...)...

Kids, right now it's a latchkey kid situation cause we can't afford childcare (one is 12, other almost 10..so borderline babysitters aren't cool phase) our side gig market in my community is oversaturated.

Can't refinance car (got quoted higher payments than what I got ..)

Moving isn't economical at the moment, not a firm no just not feasible for next few years...

Have we explored ALL the ways out there? Mostly but true there's always ways out there. My financial guy through my job said well, if you put x thousand a month and I'm like so basically what I make and we magically have no bills or needs like food....sure.. they are out of touch with those that really struggle, it's not easy... Again though if we found something that worked to free up money or I could get to a higher source of income we would have done so...like I said not for a lack of desire or foolishness just either some other obstacle hits or the financial side rules get tweaked to keep pushing us back...

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AriadneThread@reddit

Damn, that is out of touch. Not many people can save a thousand a month. If they could, we would not have this thread!

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lazytiger40@reddit

Yep. But in my statement I should have put quotes ..I said "x thousand." Meaning more. He quoted me 2,500-3000 monthly.

UnkleClarke@reddit

I am curious why you didn’t buy a home when they were dirt cheap back in 2009-2014? No judgement. Just curious since buying a house was much cheaper than renting during that timeframe.

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GenX-1973-Anhedonia@reddit

Absolutely shitty comment.

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UnkleClarke@reddit

Why?

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BonezOz@reddit

First, we're in Australia and prices have never been dirt cheap. Plus in 2008 our third child was born, so we were also spending more raising 3 kids under 8 and we had no savings. The savings I mention in my original response is the government mandated super annulation, aka 401k, that is untouchable until you reach 65, so couldn't use that as a deposit. IF we were in the US, I could still use my military home loan guarantee to buy a house, but neither of us want to live there, nor do we want to retire there.

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UnkleClarke@reddit

Cheers, makes sense. I assumed you were in the US.

Back in that timeframe the banks couldn’t give house away. The market was flooded and you could grab several homes with very little capital.

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Displaced_in_Space@reddit

you're moving to one of these places then:

Most Affordable Cities (2025–2026)

Wichita, Kansas: Median 1-BR at $695/month.
Toledo, Ohio: Median 1-BR at $727/month.
Cedar Rapids, Iowa: Median 1-BR at $750/month.
El Paso, Texas: Median 1-BR at $750/month.
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma: Average rent $839/month.

Your Social Security payments remain the same, so curtailing spending is the only real answer. Your kids could decide to kick in a little bit each month if they're so inclined, or you could work out something with one of them to perhaps plan to add an ADU to their home that you and your wife could live in, paying them rent. I know two familes that do this and they love it.

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BonezOz@reddit

Thanks for the list, shame it includes all the worst cities in the US to live in 😜Besides, I need a two bedroom (I snore/she snores, we keep each other awake at night).

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wyohman@reddit

Up to 70...

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Tripl3Dee@reddit

Thanks, edited!

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generic__comments@reddit

I think I'm on track, 49, and I'm about 45% to the 12x mark, and that is with just my retirement, not including my wife's retirement and our home equity.

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Dull_Translator9692@reddit

What ever i was paying 200 a quarter into it for like 10 years then bumped it up, total in 20 years it made 11k. I invested all 26k in nvda and avgo and it turned into 75k. Bullshit? FUCK YOU

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bbonerz@reddit

17% annually for life is... Unreal.

I'm looking at 3 million and 125K income plus 2.5-3% annual inflation bump.

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Dull_Translator9692@reddit

I really don't want to keep getting older. 49 and people we know keep dropping dead. Plus all the celebrities we grew up with.. just slow the time down.. a little..

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bbonerz@reddit

This is reality, and it's always been so. Did you ignore it when you were younger? You get your whole life to come to terms with mortality. If you don't establish a mindset, you'll just become increasingly fearful.

What works is different for everyone. If I were to say what works for me, since this is Reddit, I would be attacked.

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Reasonable-Click2857@reddit

It’s math, but most importantly it’s YOUR math. The guidelines we see are making assumptions to come up with a general answer. Unfortunately, in the U.S. health insurance is a huge X factor.

For a lot of us it comes down to not only the amount saved, but what we’d be willing to give up or scale back on in order to exit the rat race. Some simply can’t imagine adjusting their lifestyle - gotta keep posting those fabulous vacation pics for their 400 closest friends to see or they “need” their expensive cars, clothes, house, gadgets, entertainment, golf outings, etc. If you find joy in simple things and don’t care that others find that boring, an early exit is more attainable.

Retiring doesn’t mean you can’t pick up a part time job either. Preferably one you don’t mind and keeps you moving.

Also, consider that many experts are making money when we invest with them, the more we invest the better. You keep working, you have more money to invest.

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inot72@reddit

I (53) am currently at 3x. I just bought a piece of land for a small retirement home. I'll never pay off the house whenever I get around to building it. I plan to build a small 2 bed 2 bath. Max 1000 sqft.

I didn't start making real money until about 8 years ago. Prior to that, I could only contribute my employer's match to my 401k. The last eight years I have been contributing the IRS max or close to it until last year when I stepped out of management into a lower paying position. I'm contributing my employer's match now but also opened a Roth IRA. Once I hit the IRS max for the IRA, I'll bump up my 401k but won't likely get close to the IRS max.

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gumby_twain@reddit

Unironically, I figure I’ll just work until I die.

I took a mid-career sabbatical that I’ll never financially recover from, but the life experience was worth it.

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Positive-Letterhead6@reddit

I’m there now…25 years at solid company, got bought by investment firm, total hell now, official mantra is…work scared. Layoffs coming, I’m safe but losing 60% of my team…been stressed for 6 months since purchase, and am planning to resign after bonus check next week. No fallback, plan to cash out 401k, penalties n all knowing it jacks my retirement even though it’s not enuf to last lifetime even if I stay, but plan sabbatical, unwind, find my passion, start over after months etc…I’m like 75% committed to resign but scared n excited at same time. Long exhale, struck me how u called out financial burden but experience was worth it…so maybe at 76% now dunno 🤷‍♂️

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evranor@reddit

not sure how old you are, but you say you worked for 25 years at one company, so I figured I'd mention. If you're 55 you may be able to withdraw from 401K without penalty. Google the rule of 55. If you're not 55, or even close, well, I guess I don;t have any other advice.

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They enjoyed 56 years with no discipline . It’s either they buckle up for 10 years so they can retire or die working.

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If America really cared about getting citizens out of the workforce / SS they would wind up SS and introduce a mandatory employer contributed retirement fund (Called Superannuation here in Australia). That's the only way I've been able to have 4x my annual wage at 55.

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wheatmonkey@reddit

The 4% rule is to withdraw 4% of your savings the first year, then in each successive year, withdraw the previous year’s amount plus an increase based on the rate of inflation. If you have $1,000,000, you would withdraw $40,000 in year one. In year two, if the inflation rate is 3% you would withdraw $40,000+$1,200 regardless of actual investment returns. It’s a way of evening out your withdrawals while keeping the risk of running out of money low. It also assumes 30 years is the full length of time you’re retired.

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snotick@reddit

Or you can withdraw what you need. Because the truth is, people may not need as much when they are 85 as they do when they are 65.

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DJs_Second_Life@reddit

Didn’t save much. It was a low priority during my marriage. I worked super hard at my own business from high school until now. I also worked part time at a local Fire Department for 34 years (no benefits).

My business is doing better than it ever has buts it’s still super small. There’s 6 of us here but I’m the only one working full time. House property will be paid off by 67. There’s two homes. The ex’s parents rent the Dutch barn home from me. My home is a 3b2b and I can convert another 350 square feet into a studio apartment where a garage used to be. If could equip it with an ADA shower and live there if needed.

Between that and selling the business, it’ll be tight but I’ll be ok. If have been paying into SS as well. I’m an s-corp, not self employed. Some of the work I could do until I’m 75.

JaxsonPalooza@reddit

When I was younger and quite stupid, I cashed out every 401(k) I had as soon as I left each job. I finally got a job working for the state, which included a pension. The first paycheck was a shock, because 10% (at the time) of my wages went toward that pension. That was in 2004. I hated the job, so I applied to my municipality and finally was hired on the third try, and that employer also participates in the same pension, so since there was zero gap between jobs I did not have the chance to do something stupid by requesting a refund of the pension funds I’d contributed. Thank GOD, because my husband made the same dumb moves with his 401(k)s before we met.

We both paid the penalties for cashing out. He retired from his most recent job last February, and we’ve been living on my salary and his social security. I will try to stay at my job for as long as I can - at least five more years, so I can get Medicare, but if I can stick it out until I’m 70, that’d be best (financially). And we’re trying to stave off using any funds from his 401(k) and my 457(b) for as long as possible. Beyond that, we also have a small inherited IRA that we’ll hold off drawing from. But I am so ready to be done, LOL.

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When you pay penalty and income tax you are giving roughly 50% to the government. Having said that, in some cases may be worth it.

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jedichric@reddit

I'm 47 and my wife is 42 and we're millionaires. And if you met us, you'd never know. Not the type you see with jet set lives, all of our money is in retirement accounts, home value and 401k's. We're not rich enough to not worry about our jobs, but on the path.

How did we do it? From age 18, I set a budget, stick to it and save knowing that l can't rely on others to save me. We don't go on luxury vacations but we do have fun. We buy expensive items, but we take advantage of interest free offers on credit cards (like at best buy cards, etc) and make sure we are putting away some every month.

We limit our fun now, so we can enjoy it later. We rarely eat out at a "nice" restaurant and make sure we don't go overboard.

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Buffalippo@reddit

Same boat here for my husband and I. We've been regular savers since our early 20s and we live a very modest lifestyle, although we do like to travel internationally once a year. We got super lucky with real estate early on and that made a tremendous difference.

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baudmiksen@reddit

Luck can make all the difference

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PaulClarkLoadletter@reddit

I’m also a millionaire. Thanks, inflation!

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Whythehellnot_wecan@reddit

Similar. We saved for a lot of years. Nothing about my wife or me (cars, travel, clothes, lifestyle) says we are millionaires.

The hardest part about retirement which may be here for us 5 years earlier than wanted as my wife just got laid off and I can’t work anymore is breaking the habit of saving and actually spending.

To OP you’ll need to figure out how to keep income below 400% of poverty for ACA credits, then factor in a higher withdrawal rate until you reach social security. This is where we are at. At the end of the day it is a math problem and you’ll need cut expenses where you can.

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IdaDuck@reddit

Similar for us, and we’re both 47. We’ve done it on my income the last 16 years since my wife has been a SAHM, but I do fear we’ve leaned too hard toward frugal over the years. Our oldest is 16 now and it feels like we don’t have much time left with the kids. I am set for a promotion and significant pay increase this year so I think we will loosen up on the frugal a bit. Frankly even without the raise we’ve done most of the heavy lifting on saving already.

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Illustrious-One6210@reddit

51 and only have 300k (401k and other retirement account combined). No home, car (live in NYC and rent is high. I also financially support my elderly parents - something a lot of my GenX friends are now doing on some level). I am not retiring anytime soon unless my company retires me. So I guess I have to work for 20 more years? I don’t know the first thing about investing and tough to save.:(

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bendingtacos@reddit

I feel for high cost of living cities, retirement will look different- if you are a high earner and get a decent social security check, you could be okay - but in 9 years I would work on increasing that 401k. you might be able to rent something in a different city on just the interest/dividends growth of the 401k and live off Social security, or it could be more than enough to pay cash for a place - and you just pay property taxes/hoa fees from social security and the remainder of the balance not used on the home purchase. I think its not talked about enough for people your age that it will be difficult to retire in a place like LA or NYC given the cost of rent and life style.

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Displaced_in_Space@reddit

I'm not in that situation, but here's the reality:

It all comes down to inflow and outflow. If the end up in the negative (you don't have enough saved/coming int) you can:

Increase what's coming in
Reduce what you're paying out
Run up debt until no one will give it to you, then die.

Most people put a whole bunch of constraints on things when trying to deal with this, couching them as "must haves" when in reality they're choices.

You can go back to work, full or part time. You can sell your house and move to something cheaper. YOu can sell your house and move to the cheapest city/town in the country that has available housing. You can become a regular at food pantries and other public assistance.

I think the biggest trouble people have is imagining a new life so dramatically differently run than their current. This is especially true with people with little savings that made their way through life paycheck to paycheck.

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moonpie99@reddit

100%. Those suggestions of how much you need to retire are to maintain your current standard of living, but why bother doing that?

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LLR1960@reddit

Our expenses are low (paid off house) and since we're not American we don't have the healthcare costs you do, especially potentially for long term care. We were able to figure out an accurate budget, and realized our government pensions (such as SS for you) more than covered our month to month expenses, with a bit of buffer added in. Since our savings are pretty much for extras (newer car, probably a new furnace, a bit of travel, etc), we had only about 5x our ending salaries saved up. So far, we haven't needed to touch that, and I'm not sure we will have to anytime soon.

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I wish that were true. I have been fighting with disability for almost 5 years. My wife has been the only one working. She is 35 and has no retirement either. We cannot afford to even take a small percentage out of her checks for a 401k.

I just had an administrative hearing that my lawyer said looks good for me. We are hoping like hell I get approved. That would give me a monthly check and a big settlement. That would give us a down payment for a house and with my monthly check that would allow her to start putting into 401k.

I’m 53 and retired. For me, it’s all about expenses. My former salary as a metric for what I needed was meaningless. I saved a big chunk of that income and I don’t need to save anymore.

Zombiem1@reddit

I'm in the same boat, with the added " My wife left me" thrown in.

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I_deleted@reddit

I’m invested in my kids’ education. I’ll get them through college with no debt and that’ll be good enough. Not planning to ever stop working anyway, it’s just what I do. There’s plenty put back for later, plenty of equity etc I’ve worked hard all my life. I’ve stopped occasionally, took a year off here and there just to dick around… I’d rather just keep working tbh

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AccomplishedCash3603@reddit

Same. If I don't work my mind spirals. No thanks.

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Hedgehogosaur@reddit

I have zero £ savings, and about 1/4 my salary in a pension fund. I'll get state pension if site 12k

I'm just hoping I'll inherit a bit to keep my house maintained ok. I'm assuming I'll never really retire.

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Illustrious-One6210@reddit

Honestly, I have seen some stories of people moving in together (mostly Moms or older single females) to save money, count on each other for help, etc. something I think I would seriously consider. I don’t need much! I walk around NYC and think to myself - I’ve lived the good life, had the best experiences, worked for over 25 years. I’m tired.. I just want a simple life now. I don’t need millions to survive or expensive crap I won’t take with me when I’m gone. Anyone else feel this way?? 😊🤪 I’ve been feeling this way more as I get older but also because of all the sad sh#t happening in our world today.

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VintageFashion4Ever@reddit

I'm your age. I have about three times my salary in a 401 (k). In 7 years I will have thirty years in at my job, and be eligible for a decent pension for the remainder of my life. In 9 years I should have six times my salary in my 401 (k). My spouse, who makes three times my salary, already has 5 times his salary in his 401 (k) and will have that up to 10 when he retires. We paid off our house five years ago. We will pay for our kid to go to college in state. The biggest issue is trying to age in place for as long as possible. Medicare does not pay for assisted living, and the cheapest full care assisted living we've found in four years of helping my father is $7,000.00 a month. Medicare does not pay for an aide to come to your house to assist you with activities of daily living.

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motorider500@reddit

It’s time in the markets and discipline on frivolous spending on things that aren’t necessary. I started at 23 and maxed out my 401k. As time went on with increase in income, I started investment accounts also. Then noticed my company allows a mega backdoor Roth. So I started doing that also. Met my wife 1/2 through my career and behold, she was as aggressive and had a math degree. We teamed up years ago and hired a fiduciary which has done above and beyond my expectations. Now at 55, I’m waiting for my exact exit “date”. Looks like 11/26/26 for me. If I waited for that specific date, I qualify for a monthly stipend and some company residual benefits for life. My wife as a surprise paid off our home and vehicles about 8 years ago, which has left us debt free (fiduciary suggestion but was against our 3% home loan payoff). Our fiduciary has set up our investments to continue at our level for life now. He told us a few years ago we could leave. We decided to stay until 55 as I’m still at my original company I started at, which under IRS rules, I can withdrawal penalty free at 55 if I choose. One thing I didn’t realize was the implications on investment accounts. 95k for a couple ON GAINS is tax free. And you can withdrawal those accounts advantageously only reflecting under 95k on gains. Roth’s can be helpful also as it’s a tax free gains investment vehicle, but those have limits for deposits annually. Then there is the “cash” or liquid stuff to keep in case of larger market losses basically weathering the storm. See Monte Carlo simulation. That we keep in CD’s. There’s a lot to learn, but the sooner the better. I can’t stress how time is really the key here. Compounding is insane over a 30-40yr period. One thing I would change is the amount of time we worked. I am blue collar in the energy industry that has unlimited premium overtime. My job is fairly easy so I took the hours usually. I was stuck as night shift engineer for 17 years which for night shift, it’s difficult to swap your sleep schedule. Don’t get me wrong, I had 5-6 weeks vacation and a ton of holidays with Xmas shutdown (I worked a few years at 3x pay) and did take vacations and family time off. It can be done for anyone that can focus on the future and not try to live outside your means. Good luck people! Signed a blue collar worker………..

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MattDinOC@reddit

If you’re the DIY type, I recommend trying out Boldin or ProjectionLab, a couple of retirement modeling tools. I haven’t tried the latter, only have seen it recommended a lot. Boldin has a free trial mode which is pretty full featured. Expect to spend a good amount of time entering all your data. The more info you give it, the more useful / accurate the results will be.

If you’re not the DIY type, then find a financial advisor to help you make sense of it.

Me too, girl. Me too.

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ariadesitter@reddit

most people are fucked whether they know it or not:

the dollar is losing status/value,
the usa has lost its role as leader of the free world,
1&2 above mean inflation beyond any control of the fed.
there isn’t enough healthcare infrastructure to care for the elderly in the quantity needed.
the quality of senior care is inhuman. if you can afford it.
climate change is being accelerated by the uneducated in government,
home/land values are going to change because of climate threats.
we are going to be over run by climate refugees. and we will overrun someone else further north.
water and food scarcity will increase their costs.
the gov has disassembled research on many levels. it will take years to rebuild science facilities, till then we will use non-causal anecdotes from influencers.

people with 1 or 2 million bucks are screwed just like people with 1 or 2 hundred bucks.

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LilithWasAGinger@reddit

I'm right there with you. :(

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batty_lashes@reddit

Yup.

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GooseberryPotato@reddit

Sit down with a fee only financial analyst. They will tell you based on your situation where you are. The short answer is is unless you planned early, had a higher than average salary, a lower than average set of expectations/expenses, or the winning lottery ticket stuffed in your sock… you are in both your highest earning years and at risk for not working again if you lost or left your job.

Oh yeah a pension with health care helps but as that is probably not a viable option for most…not worth mentioning for a lot of help.

Yaaa...

Disclaimer… I have some of the above going for me and my spouse and I will both be retired* in our early to mid 50’s.

*sadly my socks are are only filled with my feet and there will be pt jobs in our future

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moneyman74@reddit

Well first make a budget and see how much you need and go from there....many people live on Social Security and a paid off home and not doing much in retirement.

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LilithWasAGinger@reddit

The paid off home is they key idea.

This is a good point. Most people will say they at least want the same lifestyle. Many say they want to travel and all that. (So more expensive). But I have heard of those that intend to sell their house, downsize, and live simply but with the freedom to go wherever, whenever (see grandkids, travel a little, volunteer, whatever). But the point is that you should think about it before you retire so you can realistically save (and know roughly how long you have to work).

If you’ve got 2-4 times salary now time and investment returns will get you there. Time and investment returns are going to drive your results.

With 3x your salary double it twice and you have 12x.

The rule of 72 says 72 divided by rate of reform is how long it takes to double. If you can make 12% past inflation returns doubling takes 6 years, so you could be there in 12 years of 64, so you’re on track. A 12% return isn’t impossible but takes some skill. 10% is 14.4 years 8% 18.

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Rickest_Rik@reddit

I jammed as much as I could in my 401k from 22 on. at 58 I made it. But I wont be buying an island.

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Roboticus_Aquarius@reddit

I dunno, this whole topic is fraught. Fixed costs are really important. Goals are really important.

I am retired, wife works. Fin Advisor via work suggested we were short… but we’ve been all over the place from 5x to almost 20x income depending on when you look and what assumptions you make. Yeah, we have had volatile income.

I tend to think it’s best to just figure out what you want and make it happen (but that does require a healthy grip on reality and facility with numbers.)

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Kitchen_Page9991@reddit

I plan on dying broke. I have about 3x annual salary saved up. I still invest with every paycheck too. I've been giving an awful lot of though lately about dying with hundreds of thousands in savings that I never lived to enjoy. Fuck that. I've still got a few good working years left. But when the time comes I'm out! I have a friend that just retired 6 months ago, found out today he dropped dead over the weekend. Basically his entire life was filled with working. No fucking way am I going out like that. Spending all I saved, and wishing for a little more!

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Tundrakitty@reddit

My husband’s dad got stomach cancer the year he retired. He lived a few more years but fought illness for all of it. It is so hard to watch something like that (my mom died at 57 of cancer also) and scrimp in case you live until your 90s.

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NoneyaBizzy@reddit

10-12x of your annual salary seems dumb. Just a simple answer that seems clever. It's all about how much you want and need to spend. That 25x of expenses mentioned below seems more accurate, but I'm shooting for 40x as my walk away number. But I'm paranoid about running out of money and I'd like to leave some money to my kids because I'm not bullish on the future workforce and economy.

But don't fool yourself into thinking you can drop your spending tremendously. If you have more time (because you aren't working) you're going to want to do stuff that costs money. Talk to a financial planner to get that retirement number that you can work towards. Maybe you can drop your number to 20x expenses, or maybe you can work somewhere simpler just to get health benefits and some pocket money.

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No-Economics-8239@reddit

The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

I've done okay playing in the tech industry. But my wife and I don't have enough socked away to feel comfortable. And, really, how many do you *really* need to have saved up to *feel* secure? The question seems like more of a psychological test than finical literacy. I, too, feel tired. But I don't see a good way out of this rat race with the rules seemingly stacked against us.

When I was a teenager, social security seemed like an extravagance. Now it seems like a good start that doesn't go far enough. Constantly moving the bar on how and who deserves assistance seems only like excessive greed. But like the boomers before us, I don't know that we have a lot of political capital to start trying to change things with the kids who will be running things when we either manage to retire or else can't physically or mentally work anymore.

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Confident-Umpire3361@reddit

I will retire with 2 pensions, one city and one state ( figure any ss will go to the Medicare costs). I will make it, but I live in a very high COL area, so I will probably have to downsize and move somewhere cheaper

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ArlenForestWalker@reddit

Three of the smartest things we did was add a little to our mortgage payment to pay it down faster; we refused to “buy up” when it came to housing (we raised three kids in our “starter home” when everybody we knew was buying bigger houses in the ‘burbs); and we didn’t take money out when we refinanced for lower rates.

Now we’re mortgage free. Granted, owning a home still has costs (insurance, property tax, upkeep), but it’s a lot less expensive than a house payment or renting.

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b1e9t4t1y@reddit

Matching contributions were cancelled and had to pull most to cover family expenses. Also went from two incomes to one due to employer downsizing. Salary reduced and hours cut from the other. I’m still working my 40 and have a few retirement ideas I’ve been working on.

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abstractraj@reddit

I’m just about at the 10x number but for a lot of people it may be overkill. Save what you can through Roth IRA and 401k/Trad IRA. Even starting at 50 can get you a solid nest egg

At a bare minimum, assuming the OP has a 401k or equivalent with his/her current employer, he/she will not want to leave his/her current job until the calendar year in which he/she turns 55 years old (probably 2028 in the OP’s case), aka the rule of 55. (With many employers, there are restricted but no penalty options to withdraw from your current employer’s 401k or equivalent if you leave that job in the calendar year you become 55 or older, prior to turning 59 1/2 when many 401k withdrawal restrictions go away.)

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AlmiranteCrujido@reddit

Retirement is tied to financial resources not a specific age.

I retired with about 5X salary in savings/investments—but I have a company pension paying half my retirement income, so maybe for me it works out to the same as 10X saved.

I crunched the number a bunch of ways before pulling the trigger—none of them was based on savings as a factor of my salary. I calculated what my retirement expenses would be (groceries, vehicle registration and insurance, home and health insurance, taxes, home maintenance, etc.), and ideally wanted my nest egg to generate enough income to supplement the pension to that amount without having to deplete the principal.

Didn’t work out that way—I retired before I had that amount. I am now drawing on principal until government benefits kick in—but at a rate I can afford until the govt benefits make my retirement self-funding, and I’ll no longer be drawing on the principal. I’ll burn through about 25% of the nest egg by then—and yeah, I’m screwed if the government benefits aren’t there when I need them.

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kamperman3000@reddit

In 3 yes6 you should have several million put away. If you don't. I hope the government takes care of you

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GreatOne1969@reddit

That amount being thrown around is silly. No reasonable retiree will spend that much per month or live that long.

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trUth_b0mbs@reddit

this is why it's so important to invest your money instead of straight savings.

I plan to leave this country (Canada) and retire elsewhere that is much cheaper. I love Canada but goddamn, it's hella expensive to live here and we have good paying careers. Will sell my house which will add another 1.5-1.8M to my retirement fund.

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jazzbot247@reddit

Pay off your home and see how much your real monthly expenses are. Then plan accordingly.

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AlmiranteCrujido@reddit

That rule completely breaks down at high incomes, unless the person with the high income is over-extended. 10x the amount you'd actually need to live on is a much better start than "your current income."

You need to look at the full picture - expected income and expenses. Depending on your housing situation, and many etc, that can be too little or way too much.

If in the US, it also depends on how much you want to bet on Social Security keeping benefits at current levels (vs. cuts; I think the "gone entirely" folks are out of their mind.)

At your/our age, if you're well-invested you can use a rough rule of thumb of 4%/year of our retirement investments being a safe withdrawal rate for at least 30 years of retirement, even allowing for inflation.

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TheDude4269@reddit

Not retired, nor an expert. But the rule of thumb is 4%. If you think you can live on 4% of your nest egg (annually) then you can retire and probably not run out of money. Obviously safer if you withdraw less, but you get the idea - it gives you a good starting point.

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tybeej@reddit

Salary doesn’t matter. A better target is 25x your annual spend