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Russia Looking West

Posted by archonpericles@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 31 comments

Is anyone else hearing that Russia is modeling plans for a movement on Baltic states as a response to France’s nuclear expansion east?

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31 Comments

EnesAkhan@reddit

Like invading them? To start a total war with Nato? When they depleted so much in Ukraine (literal flat land bdw) Nahhhh . Unless they nuke the shit outta them rhere is no way
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Prestigious-Job-9825@reddit

Exactly. If Russia can't even win a proxy war against Nato (as they think of the war in Ukraine), then why the fuck they think they could win a direct war against Nato?
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EnesAkhan@reddit

Simple "I am a nuclear power so i just go and nuke the hell outta everyone . They cant even fight back"
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rxdlhfx@reddit

There are 100 million people in ex-Warsaw Pact countries, currently in NATO and EU, with strong memories about Russia. They don't need Trump to know what to do. Pretty sure that another 350 million in other EU countries will follow. And UA will still do what UA does best.
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ADRzs@reddit

None of these countries have any memories of Russia. They have memories of the USSR, a totally different state with different mentality and political orientation. And, I wonder if their memories include invading the USSR as the Poles, Hungarians and Romanians did. These are really very selective memories. Nobody knows what an ethnic Russia occupation of Eastern Europe would have looked like. The USSR was all about promoting communism by all means necessary. The nationalist pre-occupations of Russia would have been something very different.
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rxdlhfx@reddit

Same country, different flavour... for many many centuries. Yes, we did invade the USSR during a war that USSR started against us, in September 1939, together with Germany. It was called WW2. Check it out, it wasn't called The Great Patriotic War, it started with USSR invading Poland in 1939, then Romania in 1940. What you are describing happened in the same war, sometime later.
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ADRzs@reddit

Let's be clear on a few things. (a) The USSR marched into Poland in 1939 only after the Polish army had been totally destroyed and the government had fled. Would it have been better if the Germans had captured all of Poland? (b) The USSR takeover of Bessarabia in 1940 is a continuation of a conflict originally with Russia. Essentially, in the war of Romanian independence, Romania ceded Bessarabia to Russia in exchange for Dobruja. It recovered Bessarabia from Russia in 1918, despite the existing treaty. Obviously, the USSR redressed this. Nothing of that is normal, of course, but both parties have issues. \>Same country, different flavour... for many many centuries. No, this is not true. The USSR was a different entity, run by a vastly different group of people (who were not Russian in their majority). It had different policies and pre-occupations.
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rxdlhfx@reddit

a) Did you just justify them going to war against Poland? Wow... b) That is false, Bessarabia was part of their empire between 1812 and 1918. The whole time. You shouldn't be so confident about your knowledge of history if you're confusing Bessarabia with Budjak. Yes, countries change their form of government, Russia never ceased being an empire though.
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ADRzs@reddit

\>a) Did you just justify them going to war against Poland? Wow.. There was never any war with Poland. There was no Polish army to fight against in the first place. By the time the Soviets moved in, the Polish army had been destroyed. Again, let me point out that the Soviets moved in three weeks after the German invasion. \>Yes, countries change their form of government, Russia never ceased being an empire though. Russia did not change its form of government. The USSR did not have national aspirations. Lenin, in fact, granted independence to the Baltic states and to Finland. The USSR was governed by representatives of all its republic, and many of these were Central Asia ones. And the guys in control for most of its history were Georgian and Ukrainians. \>You shouldn't be so confident about your knowledge of history if you're confusing Bessarabia with Budjak. I thought that you were discussing the events of 1939-1940
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rxdlhfx@reddit

Seriously? The Russians didn't fight the Polish army in 1939? Is this (are you) a joke? The USSR granted so much "independence" that it was sending in tanks to the heart of Europe whenever someone stepped out of line... If you thought I was discussing about 1939/1940 (correct), then why say something that is not true about Romania's war of independence?
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ADRzs@reddit

\>Seriously? The Russians didn't fight the Polish army in 1939? Is this (are you) a joke? Let's assume they weren't, for the sake of argument. How does this mean that the USSR can simply come in and take half of Poland? Yes, seriously, because there was no Polish army to fight. The USSR invaded Poland 3 weeks after the German invasion. By that time, the Polish army was done. And let's assume that the USSR did not invade Poland. What would have happened? The Germans would have occupied all of it. So, was that better? \>The USSR granted so much "independence" that it was sending in tanks to the heart of Europe whenever someone stepped out of line... Correct!! No doubt. But, it was the USSR of Stalin and Brezniev, none of whom were Russians. So, you cannot really confuse the USSR with Russia, OK? \>If you thought I was discussing about 1939/1940 (correct), then why say something that is not true about Romania's war of independence? I am really unclear about this discussion. What is exactly your point here?
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rxdlhfx@reddit

You know you can check this, right? Whether the Polish army fought the USSR in 1939. It is not something you have to imagine. You have no idea what are you talking about. USSR and Nazi Germany agreed to split Eastern Europe and Poland amongst themselves a few days before Stop talking as is the USSR reacted to that Genrany did. No. It was planned before in a signed document, annex included. Again, you have no idea what are you talking about Yes, I can confuse USSR with Russia as much as I want, it is the same Empire. Acquiring more territory and calling yourself something else doesn't change what you are. My point is very clearly explained. You brought about Romania's war of independence... then you claim that you thought I was talking about 1939/1940. Try to make some sense.
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-Against-All-Gods-@reddit

Because Ukraine was actually well-armed and prepared and it's an open question if NATO would actually react.
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Prestigious-Job-9825@reddit

Yeah, they were well-armed, but well-armed by NATO. If Russia can't beat Ukraine thanks to Ukraine's western weapons, then they sure as shit couldn't do anything to NATO itself in a direct war.
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ADRzs@reddit

One should not use the war in Ukraine to draw any serious conclusions. First of all, the Russians are not fighting an all-out war in Ukraine. They utilize paid volunteers and their forces are mostly numerically inferior to the Ukrainian ones. And the war in Ukraine is mostly a series of sieges of fortified towns. What an all-out war can be, is a totally different matter
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ADRzs@reddit

Let's be clear here. Russia is not actually fighting an all-out war in Ukraine. It recruits mainly paid volunteers to fight against the Ukrainian forces which have been well-armed and numerically superior to the Russians for most of the time. An all-out war would look very, very different than the sieges that go on in Eastern Ukraine (the war there is a series of sieges of fortified towns).
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Open-Investigator-52@reddit

Didn't expect a western propaganda echo chamber in ask Balkan but here we are.
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archonpericles@reddit (OP)

Says the person that hides their post and comments.
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Open-Investigator-52@reddit

Why, you can't produce a valid argument so you dig through comment history?
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archonpericles@reddit (OP)

Who’s arguing? I asked a question.
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ADRzs@reddit

This is a joke, right? Trust the Baltics to start all kind of anti-Russian rumors!!
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DimiRPG@reddit

*Is anyone else hearing that Russia is modeling plans for a movement on Baltic states as a response to France’s nuclear expansion east?* No, I haven't heard anything. I guess news about Russia 'modeling plans for a movement on Baltic states as a response to France’s nuclear expansion east' would probably be classic Russian disinformation justifying Russian actions as a response to supposed Western aggression. In reality the changes in France's nuclear policy are not as radical as they may have been portrayed. Essentially, if French nuclear forces are dispersed throughout Europe it strengthen's France's second-strike capabilities increasing in that way deterrence (in simple terms, if you attack me first trying to eliminate all my nuclear weapons, you will not suceed and thus I will be able to hit you back with my remaining nuclear forces). See also: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj4zlnezrl7o](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj4zlnezrl7o) . 'This would allow France's Strategic Air Forces (FAS) to "spread out across the depth of the European continent... and thus complicate the calculations of our adversaries", the president said. (...) There will be no explicit "guarantee" given to partner countries, and it is the president of France who will retain sole decision-making power over when to fire a nuclear missile. The aim remains to convince potential adversaries that "if they have the audacity to attack France... there will be an unsustainable price to be paid," the president said. Until now there has been a deliberate vagueness about what France regards as its "vital interests", an attack on which would trigger a nuclear response. In recent years governments have hinted that "vital interests" could also include interests in Europe. With Macron's "advanced deterrence", this concept has been given further shape – though in accordance with the general theory of deterrence nothing is spelled out.'
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archonpericles@reddit (OP)

Thank you for your response.
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Loopbloc@reddit

I think you mixed up Baltic and Balkan. People used to ask me about war. 
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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

well, we don't, generally, care.
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nikolapc@reddit

Yeah if we weren't in NATO. Seems like a shitty deal. The Balkans should collectively get out and form its own alliance. For once we're not the spark, but I am not in the mood to be dragged into a foreign power war again. Especially since we had hours and frankly have no appetite at all. Anyway I don't think Russia will do anything about a NATO country except what it is doing now. Install their own regime.
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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

I agree, but ONLY on the condition, that Turkey is NOT included. (otherwise, it's pointless, from a Greek perspective). however, it's true. (most) Greeks don't, generally, care for Baltics & Finland. countries w/ no "connection" to, (historical/cultural) & countries that have, (at times) worked against interests, (by supporting Turkey).
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nikolapc@reddit

Ummm, NATO is the only thing preventing you guys from duking it out, I don't think that's a good idea lol.
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Vaseline13@reddit

The Baltic nations are members of NATO and the EU, therefore our allies. We should, generally, care.
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Icy-Engineering9912@reddit

I haven’t seen that, but i guess the rulebook is optional these days
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CTPABA_KPABA@reddit

Lol
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