LOW TIME PILOT N85 to FRG

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strivegaming22@reddit

I mean If u take purple you’ll fly over my house. U didn’t ask but like it’s kinda cool

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TTMR1986@reddit

Personally I'd go magenta to the Hudson then red the rest of the way

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The top comment suggests getting a clearance through the Bravo and I second that opinion. I just came to add that my airline had more TCAS RA’s going into HPN than the rest of the top 5 RA airports in our system combined. Something to keep in mind if you choose one of those northern routes.

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chasepsu@reddit

I fly out of KCDW, Magenta will be no issue at all. Stay at 2,500’ and you’ll be fine.

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yawara25@reddit

>I fly out of KCDW Heli?

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johnisom@reddit

There’s nothing wrong with going under heavy jets. Just stay under the bravo. I did all my training based at an untowered airport 5 nm from a class B airport, so all my flying in the area is either under the bravo shelf or flying the VFR transitions. I flew under heavy jets all the time and it was fine. ATC keeps them within the bravo.

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voretaq7@reddit

Honestly I would request the road not pictured (a class B transition right over central park and LGA). If you can hold altitude and heading within private pilot standards and don't sound like a complete bungling fool on the radio you've got a better than 50/50 chance at getting the transition *if you pick up flight following early and let them know your plan* - they really will try to work with you, especially if you can be flexible on what altitude you enter and transition at. If you can't get that then as someone who has done it I would avoid the red route: It's *safe* (you stay in really close to shore so even at that low altitude you'll make it to water you can stand up in, and there's usually a lot of boats), but man alive does it fucking SUCK to be chugging along at that altitude! You're going to have (and *want*) to climb your ass up as soon as you get out of that cutout, and then you're probably gonna want to climb up again on your way to the Captree / Twin Span reporting points if you're making a VFR arrival to FRG. My "Plan B" route would be the orange route - just go around the entire class B airspace at a nice, comfortable altitude and make my descent over the sound approaching the Northport Stacks reporting point. Could also fly over the top at 7500/8500 and either try to get a descent through the class B airspace or descend once clear but N85 is pretty close so you'd maybe have to circle and climb somewhere. (It's cold though, now's the time to try to make that climb while you've got good climb performance!) In both of those cases ***study the NY TAC chart*** because there are LGA arrivals and departures that you'll be descending or climbing through. Again, pick up flight following if possible, it's usually easy to get around here, and if you can't get it at least monitor NY approach. Your purple route is also *fine* but I prefer to have a little more altitude under me than running under the class B shelf *the whole way* like that. Day VFR I'd do it, night is a Hard Nope from me: Either I'm getting my Bravo transition, taking the Orange path, or climbing way the hell above the Bravo.

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randombrain@reddit

Study the NY what now?

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voretaq7@reddit

It's one of those pieces of wallpaper in the pilot's lounge. [You'll know it when you see it!](https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/01-22-2026/PDFs/New_York_TAC.pdf)

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randombrain@reddit

Ah, the Terminal Area Chart chart. I guess if I wanted to buy a paper copy from my local FBO operator, I would walk myself down to the ATM machine, enter my PIN number, and withdraw the appropriate fraction of an AMU unit? :P

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voretaq7@reddit

While I appreciate some good pedantry it may be time to let this one go my friend. The war is over, the pedants lost, language has evolved to accept redundantly including the last letter of the acronym as an additional albeit unnecessary word. There are far more important things to worry about in life like that target squawking 1200 that isn't talking to anyone whose altitude and heading appear to be the products of a deranged random-number generator. :)

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randombrain@reddit

Fair points, but if I was capable of letting things go I wouldn't be a pedant. Kind of a defining characteristic.

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voretaq7@reddit

Don't stress yourself out. Let the voices on the other end of the radio do it. :)

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DankVectorz@reddit

Going east bound you will get a B clearance at 5500’ 99% of the time. Westbound 6500’. When I fly to LI from 1N7 I always go down the Hudson and then along the south shore of LI below the bravo. You’re only down at 500’ for a couple miles and you’re right along the beach.

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Marbleman1968@reddit

I fly out of FRG. Generally I’d always prefer to just get to altitude and ask for transition. They will generally give it (like nearly always) at the altitudes mentioned above. I’ve done the 500’ on the beach a bunch of times but never willing to when they are taking off on 22L/R. Wake from a departing clean and heavy aircraft is no joke at 500’. So on days like that I would rather climb to get to a transition altitude outside the bravo. Plus transitioning easterly over JFK to FRG ATC will likely have you fly direct JFK vor then step you down as you get closer to Frg. I’ve not flown west to your airport but I suspect it will be similar once you get out of EWR pattern on the way back.

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itsinthedata@reddit

How do you typically cling to altitude? Do you just do some spiral climb or east west lines and talk to NY approach on 120.05. Getting my PPL in this area and im just wondering when I’m ready to fly west at 6,500 what’s the best way to get to that altitude before going JFK on course VFR

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Marbleman1968@reddit

I usually end up flying southwest from Frg to ACY to visit my family. On days with a 14 or 19 departure from FRG I’ll usually head south towards Jones Beach where the Bravo shelf is 4k. Once I get off the ground and the aircraft in a stable climb I’ll ask for freq change from FRG and once I listen for a break in approach, call up w VFR request for flight following/desired heading/request. In that time I can usually get up to a reasonable altitude prior to my request. Approach and JFK are top tier controllers and very helpful ime. Be quick with answers and reasonably concise without a bunch of unnecessary chatter and they will work with you. If it’s a bad day traffic wise or some other issue, try again another day or climb above the bravo and enjoy the view. GA is a window of time type of transport, if you absolutely have to be somewhere at a specific time/date. Drive, train or fly commercial. Many a time I have had friends w me to do a city tour, the weather was iffy or only option was under the 500’ shelf…guess what guys, today were going to POU for lunch or dinner.

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DankVectorz@reddit

When I fly out of ISP I’ll usually climb to the north/northwest if I’m not going along the south shore down low.

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snailmale7@reddit

This is the way — Years ago the SID had departures climbing to 5000. If plan to cross the Bravo at 5500 or higher is easy work. I can only speak for the JFK portion of the Bravo ... Former ATCT at N90 :).

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dinanm3atl@reddit

Good tips here. Going North South over ATL Bravo is super easy for most. They like specific altitudes so if you get to them. Get to a good staging area. Hit them up and ask for flight following. They see you already at the right altitude it says "I have done this already" and most times get cleared. Listening to radio the folks stumbling around on radios. At random altitudes. Etc. Much larger chance to be told no.

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Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit

Got a TPA bravo clearance before Christmas without even asking. Stayed out over the gulf for a bit and ATC says I gave you a bravo clearance if you want to get closer to shore. Must have sounded like I knew what I was doing. Then Sarasota vectored me inland and decided he was too busy and cut me loose.

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WeekendOk6724@reddit

Fly it with someone who has done it a millions times. Until you're ready. That's how IOE works. Do what's done in aviation.

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Few_Party294@reddit

Fly the red line, stay under the bravo. No need to take to anyone except the delta.

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nothimwhy@reddit

Honestly, depending on which direction they’re landing you might be best off going direct over EWR and JFK. Otherwise purple and orange look fine if you’d prefer those. Pickup flight following regardless of the route.

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snailmale7@reddit

take my liberal upvote

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AlwaysBullishAYYY@reddit

i fly under jfk at 500ft along the south shore all the time, never had an issue. just make sure you have jfk’s current altimeter and just monitor their tower and you should be good

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phlflyguy@reddit

Take the red route. Get up to 5500 before reaching Bravo and call for FF with clearance into B. With maybe some minor vectoring, they'll likely route you right over JFK and then direct FRG.

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JimTheJerseyGuy@reddit

Howdy neighbor! I used to fly out of N85 myself. I've done that route or similar to ISP or BID numerous times. Getting cleared through the Bravo as someone else mentioned at 5,500 or 6,500 shouldn't be an issue, but definitely have a plan B (no pun intended). Someone once told me that as long as you aren't still climbing on your initial call up to Approach, you're more likely to get a clearance through. Not sure if that's true or not but that's the way I've done it. Since you'll usually depart N85 on 26, I'd climb out to the west almost to the Delaware and make a 180 to turn on course to the east. Even in one of their rental 172s with a friend or two on board, I'd still be at my planned altitude by the time I contacted approach. My plan B was always to go to the north. Not a fan of the 500' skim along the coast. Another thought, although you are stuck down low, is to head toward Sandy Hook below the shelf and ask for clearance up the Hudson. Makes for a nice scenic flight if they approve you but does leave you stuck down low heading towards Long Island if they don't. The passengers appreciate this one a lot. Head straight to the VZ and then right to the Hudson and up to the GWB. From there I've been cut loose or transferred to HPN.

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AztecPilot1MY@reddit

I used to fly out to Montauk a lot from Sky Manor (N40), and we'd fly to Colts Neck VOR at 2500 and call ATC there. We were regularly cleared into the Class B direct to JFK then direct Hampton (HTO) direct, so I would imagine they could give you direct JFK, direct KFRG.

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CSGOTRICK@reddit

Depends. How many times have you flown in close proximity to a Class B shelf?

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bladii11@reddit (OP)

I have flown below the philly bravo 1 or 2 times.

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CSGOTRICK@reddit

I think your suspicions of flying under heavy jets that are all dirtied up for landing is very fair, I would steer clear of it and go to the north. Whichever way you go though, I strongly encourage you to be on flight following

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bladii11@reddit (OP)

Yes, all of the possibilities are on FF

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CSGOTRICK@reddit

My vote is also on Magenta if that helps

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Snoo_48368@reddit

I did red once, and it was one of the most memorable flights I have ever had. I was monitoring JFK tower when abeam (outside of ring), and heard “Speedbird 1 heavy clear for takeoff” and got to watch a Concorde depart about a mile to my left. With that said, I was a lot younger and a lot dumber. Today I would 100% do magenta or over the top of the B depending on what you’re flying if you really don’t want to call for clearance. Top is 7k, so you could make your way up to 7500 and fly until you’re clear…

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Ergoglobe@reddit

I've flown between Kxll and KFRG many many times while time building. Normally I'll take your magenta line, just remain extra vigilant near the Hudson and north of kteb If I file IFR I get cleared for something similar to your orange line, even at 8000'

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GravitationalConstnt@reddit

When I'm flying the skyline tour I generally take the red rout fwiw.

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mypersonalinfoxn@reddit

FWIW, I have done the Hudson VFR route from the south coming from west and followed the red path inbound. I don’t think continuing along the coast through the below-500’ segment by JFK would be much different.

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Burgershot621@reddit

Magenta, and even if they don’t give you the bravo clearance, you can fly over or under the outer shelf easily without being a hassle to anyone. I attempted something similar some years back going from the west side of the bravo up to New England. McGuire gave me about 5 mins of flight following, handed me off to ZNY/N90, they flat out refused flight following (it was very busy) so forget about the B clearance. I chose a similar route to the magneta around the bravo and outside of the shelves, once I contacted ATC on the other side they shepherded the rest of the way.

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Atlanta_Mane@reddit

If you're not taking a CFI, orange.

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FlyingRed@reddit

Red is doable but you won’t be able to get help for New York for the first half, and then JFK will put you below 500ft along the shoreline through the area near the surface bravo. Magenta isn’t a bad option if you’re not looking to get there as quickly as possible. MMU and CDW should let you transition the delta no problem, then you can ask CDW what freq NY approach is using and swap to them. Ask for flight following to FRG via Van Cortland Park (this is a waypoint they will use, so know where it is), and they should let you take it around the surface bravo at 1500. On this route, be aware when you are going north of TEB. If they are landing RWY 19, you will cut right in front of their final. If you’re on with approach, expect vectors or an altitude. If you’re not, worth plugging TEB into the backup and listening for them if they want to reach out. Orange line will piss HPN off, try to avoid it. I have lots of experience in this area as a helicopter, so feel free to ask if you have any questions.

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stikshift@reddit

I would say orange. If you were more experienced I'd say magenta, but that will put you near jet traffic for EWR, LGA, and TEB also, not just HPN.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity: --- (All options are below the B)Asking for a bravo transition would the ideal, but getting that is a gamble so, Which option should be better, choosing RED and going 500ft AGL and below heavy jets doesn’t sound very appealing tbh. As now my preferred option is the magenta but i don’t know how much of a pain i will be getting 1 mile close to HPN Delta and NY Bravo. --- Please downvote this comment until it collapses. Questions about this comment? [Please see this wiki post before contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/wiki/index/rflyingtower/). --- I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please [contact the mods of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/flying).

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