Sailfish overview - Jolla phone OS.
Posted by kingpubcrisps@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 109 comments
Apropos of the Jolla kickstarter almost being over...
https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-phone-preorder
I had to throw up my thoughts on the best smartphone OS Around since Maemo, imho.
_angh_@reddit
This looks really good, but lack of banking support and poor camera capability means I would have to have a 2nd phone on me. Lets hope this will change in the future.
Sent1ne1@reddit
Some banking apps do apparently work, but it greatly depends on the country & the bank. Check out reviews about whether banking apps work on de-Googled phones work in your country, and if they do then they will probably (not certainly) work on Sailfish OS. Consider switching banks to one that has a working bank app, or to a bank website if it meets your needs.
jlindf@reddit
I'm from Finland, and my banks app works fine on Sailfish, although it whines about missing Google services everytime I open it. Here's a thread on banking apps on Sailfish forum for those interested.
Lad-cat-2722@reddit
How about the camera and memory?. I'm thinking to buy this phone .
jlindf@reddit
Xperia 10 III or the new Jolla phone?
On the Xperia 10 III the memory is fine. Haven't ran into any issues with it. The camera is however borderline useless if you want quick photos. It is sluggish, has some issues with autofocus, and has poor low-light performance. It can take couple of seconds before the camera takes a photo after pressing the shutter icon, the physical shutter button is somehow faster than touch screen, but it is at an awkward place. Sony hasn't released their driver on the Open Devices program, so what the camera can do is quite limited. It's also possible that my camera is somehow damaged, as I don't remember it being this bad when Sailfish launched for the Xperia 10 III.
Can't say about the new Jolla phone, as it is not out yet, but they offer 8GB Ram, upgradeable to 12, and the camera is supposedly 50MP (13MP ultrawide). As the camera is from Sony, it is possible that they can get the proper drivers for it on the new phone as they don't have to rely on the Sony's Open Devices program anymore.
Xwang1976@reddit
Do you have any experience with polar and the polar flow app to syncronize their watch training data (I have a pacer)? Does the app work in sailfish and is it able to comunicate with yhe smart watch?
jlindf@reddit
Sorry, no. But if the app uses Bluetooth, then currently it is a no go as Android apps don't have access to Bluetooth. Bluetooth support for Android AppSupport is planned though, but Jolla has not given a timeline when it will be implemented.
Sent1ne1@reddit
To be honest, it sounded like they were very close to be releasing a public version for testing. If it isn't out by the phone is released I will be very surprised.
Xwang1976@reddit
Thank you, I'll look for other way to be less dependent to google
tuxbass@reddit
While good advice, there's no guarantees what new requirements the apps might cook up overnight.
Sent1ne1@reddit
That's true, but it's also the case for Linux PCs accessing anything that does not support Linux, and anyone who wants to use their devices in a way that is not common (e.g. for better privacy).
Zettinator@reddit
As long as the Sailfish UI is objectively less open than Android, I will continue to ignore it. And so should you.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
In fact, it does not run any desktop apps.
Double_A_92@reddit
As if your regular Desktop apps would actually look good on a small tall screen...
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Still, they can be adapted. See what GNOME are doing. It is an advantage to be able to use any toolkit you desire. Plus, if you do need to, you can fall back to desktop apps.
jlindf@reddit
You can run desktop apps with LXC containers.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Which is about the same thing as Termux.
woj-tek@reddit
This. Why bother with Sailfish if you have postmarket which is completely open and more "linuxy"?
(not the mention the UI is also arguably better/friendlier)
Sent1ne1@reddit
I want a Linux phone that I can use as an actual phone, and like virtually all other Linux phone OSes, Postmarket OS doesn't have any phones where all the hardware works reliably, plus I don't think it supports VoLTE (although Ubuntu Touch has made great progress, so that might change).
I nearly went for Ubuntu Touch, as it has a few phones with almost perfect hardware support & working VoLTE...but the lack of reliable & well integrated Android support (via Waydroid) was a blocker for me. I'm hoping that improves in a year or two, then I'll probably try switching to it (I already have a good phone to run it).
woj-tek@reddit
This is the problem but it's more due to absulutely terrible situation with phone makers and lack of drivers and the PostmarketOS can do only so much.
Would be awesome if they could team with Fairphone for example…
also: I tried so much but sadly I wasn't able to use Sailfish because it was constantly getting in the way with it's sincreacies (pull menus being the most stupid thing ever requireing putting awful lot of attention)
Sent1ne1@reddit
I haven't switched to Sailfish yet (waiting for the new phone), and certainly I found the gesture-like interface very jarring compared to what I am used to, but testing it on a spare phone, I've gradually gotten used to it. It seems more like the difficulties switching from say Windows to Mac or Linux, rather than any fundamental problem with the interface.
woj-tek@reddit
Dunno… I can use just fine windows/mac/linux (or android/ios) without any problems and OS getting in the way but with sailfish… I tried it and (for me) i was just constantly annoying and getting in the way… it gave the sensation of "being convoluted for being convoluted sake" instead of actually bringing any plus-value… but it's huge IMHO :)
Azelphur@reddit
Sailfish doesn't solve the problems either, but, for me, the things that are stopping me from using postmarket are:
PureTryOut@reddit
On at least the Pixel 3a reliable is stable, but I agree that it's not a great state to be in. We're hard at work improving the situation, for example by funding work done on the q6voiced project and porting away from callvoiced to PipeWire. And the new hardware CI will also help this immensely.
As far as Discord goes, that's the problem with proprietary applications. If the developer/company behind it doesn't care, you won't get a port. I recommend moving to a FOSS communication system, even if you're going to stick to Android, for portability reasons but also for privacy sake and the other obvious benefits to FOSS.
Azelphur@reddit
PostmarketOS dev, hype :D
As I say, postmarketOS is the only one I trust / am most excited about atm, so I wouldn't want my feedback of postmarketOS to come off as negative, I recognise that postmarketOS is still a work in progress. I have a oneplus 6 running postmarketOS that I use to keep an eye on development. I also recognise of course that it's not up to postmarketOS to fix discord. That said there are efforts to modify the desktop client to have a mobile form factor that are coming along, so that could well remove that blocker for me before long.
Anyway obligatory keep up the good work, and I really hope my next phone will be running postmarketOS. :)
Azelphur@reddit
Hate to say it but this is the conclusion I came to. There seems to be a wave of new "Linux" phones recently, but it's all smoke and mirrors
I pre-ordered the new Jolla phone and then cancelled when I found out the launcher was proprietary, and you can't run Linux apps without a container, and it relies on libhybris...it's just not a Linux phone.
Postmarket is currently the only one I trust.
frnxt@reddit
My train of thought went in the opposite direction as yours haha! I was just in need of a new phone (my good old Pixel 3a was starting to get hardware issues) and I initially was wary of SailfishOS. I then considered that every little step helps: SailfishOS is relatively much closer to Linux mainline than Android even if there are closed-source bits: this means porting native apps between the two might be much easier than with Android ; and because it's running close to mainline I'm also expecting some people to port postmarketOS to it relatively easily. So I decided to give in and buy the preorder.
Sea_Self_6571@reddit
What are you talking about? Of course Sailfish is much closer to Linux than Android. Copying a comment from Sent1ne1:
Android prevents me from installing older versions of apps, without first uninstalling them, and prevents me from installing very old apps entirely, even using ADB (but none of that used to be the case). A real Linux would not actively block me.
You cannot buy rooted Android phones, and Google does everything it can to stop you.
Yes, you might technically be able to do all the above if you are sufficiently knowledgable & have enough time, but Sailfish OS is just a slightly strange Linux distro, that I can pick-up & start using straight away, with no hoops to jump through.
PureTryOut@reddit
Where did you get that info from? As far as I can see it runs a MediaTek chip which is basically the furthest away from proper mainline support. I do not expect a mainline postmarketOS port any time soon if at all.
frnxt@reddit
I don't remember where... and looking into it now I'm feeling a bit dumb and sad because clearly I can't find anywhere mentioning that bit of info :-(
SpecialistPlan9641@reddit
Isn't postmarketOS is mainline Linux?
Azelphur@reddit
Yes, which is why it's the only one I trust haha
habarnam@reddit
Outside of the license they're released under, which for end-users is mostly moot, I doubt that Android is more open than SailfishOS. Outside of a small number of Lipstick elements Sailfish OS is entirely open-source, using open contribution projects, unlike Android which accepts no contributions from outside of Google.
Also I am pretty sure that since they've split from the shady Russian backers they've started opening all of lipstick. I'm no longer super involved with the community, so take my words with a grain of salt, but that's one of the last discussions I remember.
PureTryOut@reddit
Lipstick is the compositor and was always open-source, you're confusing it with Silica which are the QML components required to make applications and the shell look like SailfishOS software.
habarnam@reddit
Thank you for the correction. But do I remember wrong, that they promised (I think at the dev meeting they organized last year or two years ago - when they presented their AI box for the first time) to open source the remaining components that weren't open ?
PureTryOut@reddit
I have no clue, but always when such promises are made: I'll believe it when it happens.
Linuksoid@reddit
Why are "Russian backers" suddenly shady? You sound quite racist tbh
ObjectiveJelIyfish36@reddit
"Russian" isn't a race.
githman@reddit
It's an ethnicity. No difference in this context.
Linuksoid@reddit
Depends on how you use the english language.
But sure, i'll bite - xenophobic then. Doesn't change my point
habarnam@reddit
I didn't say anything about Russians in general, mr Concern Troll. But the particular investors that supported Jolla were state backed, therefore shady in my opinion. Please don't concern troll if you're not even willing to read a couple of paragraphs of publicly available information.
Linuksoid@reddit
How does it being "state backed" suddenly make it "shady" lmao? Besides its located in Finland and therefore subject to EU jurisdiction regardless of who the stakeholders are.
And you sure did make it sound like something negative about russians, mr xenophobe
And don't get me started on EU's problems with free speech and surveillance lmao
habarnam@reddit
I get that English is not your main language, but maybe don't get in my face if you're unable to understand context.
fripletister@reddit
Dude seems like a Kremlin sympathizing Ukrainian, don't waste your breath
Linuksoid@reddit
I do understand context. You wrote "Russian" not "Russian state backed". One implies xenophobia, the other does not
Linuksoid@reddit
How does it being "state backed" suddenly make it "shady" lmao? Besides its located in Finland and therefore subject to EU jurisdiction regardless of who the stakeholders are.
KnowZeroX@reddit
Is the alien dalvik that lets you run android apps still proprietary closed source?
habarnam@reddit
Aliend dalvik is not a Jolla product, they pay (well, users pay) for it to be included in the OS. You can get versions of Sailfish OS without it.
theillustratedlife@reddit
Such a missed opportunity to make Linux touch-friendly.
Sent1ne1@reddit
It's the best proper Linux-based phone, if you want to actually use it as a real phone & not just a toy with broken hardware support, while also having access to most (not all) Android apps.
Do not expect it to be a seamless replacement to Android or an iPhone, but IMHO it's pretty close, and if you really want a Linux phone or to avoid Google/Apple spying on you, then a learning curve & some (probably small) bumps shouldn't be a problem.
mrandr01d@reddit
These projects seem dumb to me. Android is Linux. (Fight me!) If you don't like Google spying on you, then use GrapheneOS. LineageOS maybe even, but that's less secure from a hardware pov.
Forcing desktop Linux onto a phone just seems dumb.
Azelphur@reddit
YOU WANNA GO? LETS TAKE THIS OUTSIDE! /s
My usual analogy to explain this is: Imagine someone designed an engine for a car, it's called the Linux engine. A bunch of cars were made using the Linux engine, all these cars also used generic parts for the rest of the car too. Parts from Hyundai would work just fine on cars from Ford. Consumers really liked this because they are super easy to repair, modify and upgrade. People started calling them "Linux cars" after the engine, and generally speaking, anything designed to work on a Linux car would work on any other Linux car.
One day, Tesla came out with a car that has the Linux engine, but everything else was nonstandard, none of the mods work. People in general don't like this, the cars are difficult to repair, none of the modifications or upgrades they are used to having work. But some guy on reddit chants "Tesla IS a Linux car!" because, technically, it has the same engine.
So, to summarise, when people say they want a Linux phone, what they mean is that they want the "Linux car". The standards compliant one. Nobody cares that technically it has a Linux kernel. That's one of many parts that go into making a good, standards compliant operating system.
etc, etc. These are not things that people want.
mrandr01d@reddit
That's a really good analogy. But I'd argue that Android is popular enough that businesses depend on it, it has its own ecosystem, etc, so while that car might have the Linux engine, all the other parts are still widely used and liked too, even if the set of standards aren't quite the same.
Azelphur@reddit
Just because a lot of people use and like the Tesla, and happily use the Tesla provided modifications and addons, that doesn't make the opinion of those that want the standards compliant Linux car dumb, also for reference:
ddequivalent. Linux has been able to do this since its release in 1991. Current "backup" methods are misleading, do not back up everything, and have resulted in data loss for me and people I know.mrandr01d@reddit
Much more than just the kernel is open source, the entire AOSP code base is fully open. Google Play add-ons aren't, which is a separate discussion of how that's a big problem, but much more than the kernel is open source.
Azelphur@reddit
Yes I'm aware, but that doesn't change the substance of what I'm saying. As a reminder, I care about standards compliant, I care about compatibility, I care about control. Android being open source doesn't give me those things. You'll notice my previous comment made absolutely no mention of open source. While being open source is certainly a major contributing factor towards having control, Android is a great example of how something can be open source and yet still take control away from you. Since you brought up open source, in case you're unaware, AOSP is becoming less and less open source.
AOSP Email -> Replaced by proprietary Gmail
AOSP Calendar -> Replaced by proprietary Google Calendar
AOSP Camera -> Replaced by Google Camera
AOSP Messaging -> Replaced by Google Messages
...
etc, etc.
corvettezr11@reddit
Thing is that graphene os requires hardware thats either not accessible from a price standpoint or flat out not available. Figuring out how to put Linux on other phones matters on that alone. Of course there's also the benefits of having more choice where getting a pixel is not a big deal. LineageOs has a way bigger device list so that probably won't matter as much to it but I can't categorically affirm that
mrandr01d@reddit
GrapheneOS only supports pixels because they're the only devices that correctly implement certain hardware security measures. You can add your own bootloader signing key to a custom ROM on a pixel and relock your bootloader. That's not possible with most other hardware, along with a few other measures I don't remember right now.
As far as price, you can easily get a secondhand pixel for quite cheap. Especially the A series.
Lineage makes those arguments moot points though if you're willing to sacrifice some physical security, since they have support for such a wide range of devices.
corvettezr11@reddit
I can only speak about what I know, but yeah lineage seems to help a lot with some of the stuff I said. But still, there can be places out there that getting the compatible phones could be tricky(I would have to check worldwide availability to be sure). For the price, at least here in south America, even the used A series is serious serious money, so depending of what other expenses it might still be out of reach for them
0nlyCrashes@reddit
I wanted to try Graphene as I have an eligible Pixel, but turns out since I have Verizon and bought my phone through them I'm fucked.
corvettezr11@reddit
Oh yeah, I had completely forgotten about the carrier locked phones
Sent1ne1@reddit
Android is not Linux in spirit, any more than a TiVo was. It has almost none of the Linux command line tools & services, they are as inaccessible as Google can make them, and it's not designed under the assumption you may access them. So I cannot easily get root access & say configure it's firewall, rsync some files, or whatever.
Android prevents me from installing older versions of apps, without first uninstalling them, and prevents me from installing very old apps entirely, even using ADB (but none of that used to be the case). A real Linux would not actively block me.
You cannot buy rooted Android phones, and Google does everything it can to stop you.
Yes, you might technically be able to do all the above if you are sufficiently knowledgable & have enough time, but Sailfish OS is just a slightly strange Linux distro, that I can pick-up & start using straight away, with no hoops to jump through.
Sea_Self_6571@reddit
Hear hear! It blows my mind how people are arguing "well, Sailfish is pretty much the same as Android". It is not.
tuxbass@reddit
Didn't realize lineage & graphene are in hardware game now.
mrandr01d@reddit
They're not
CoronaMcFarm@reddit
Because you are uneducated.
Danteynero9@reddit
Nah. Not only I get spied by Jolla (their software is closed source) but I also lose access to important apps? Waste of time and money.
dddurd@reddit
It’s sad they couldn’t reach 10000. But it’s understandable given the fact that it looks worse than their initial device
ahjolinna@reddit
2k was needed for the actual device, 10k was for the The Other Half feature which they just confirmed will happen: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/jolla-phone-update-lights-on-technical-bits-and-the-schedule/27821
dddurd@reddit
I hope they will offer physical keyboard. I see no other good use case to be honest.
ahjolinna@reddit
that would be the best official thing they could provide, I doubt we will see anything this year.
I do hope they will use the profits they get from the phone to buy the Qt6 license, so they can officially port SailfishOS to Qt6 (most of the work has already been done they just cant use the Qt6 code).
also the phone sales numbers would be great metric of official user numbers that they can base the Qt6 license cost
vortexmak@reddit
Any idea if it'll work on US carriers?
Legitimate_Moment439@reddit
I'm missing a GNOME flavor for sailfish, as I think gnome apps are really aesthetically appealing both on desktop and on small screen.
I am so much hoping for a proper working Linux phone asap
PureTryOut@reddit
You'll probably prefer GNOME Mobile and Phosh then, SailfishOS won't ever ship that. That said SailfishOS can nowadays run Flatpak apps, so GNOME apps should work just fine although they won't look integrated at all.
theillustratedlife@reddit
Someone ported Ghostty to iOS on Hacker News yesterday. Most striking thing was to see that iPad's window system has the buttons in the title bar like Adwaita now.
privinci@reddit
I kinda hope jolla just adopted plasma mobile and then focus to made linux phone, plasma mobile now really good today
PureTryOut@reddit
I agree, but that would mean getting rid of what makes SailfishOS unique and basically their reason for existance. I don't see that happening at all.
What I would like to see however is for them to finally open-source Silica so it can be packaged on more distributions and their apps can be shipped on other platforms too. Right now making a SailfishOS app means you're stuck on SailfishOS and it won't run on other Linux mobile distributions, unless you create an entirely separate UI for other platforms.
AfraidAsparagus6644@reddit
I'll admit I don't see the appeal of a mainline linux phone, as opposed to a heavily degoogled AOSP distro (like graphene, or lineage after some tweaks). Especially because AOSP is already open source anyways, and you get compatibility with mainstream apps, without needing workarounds.
That being said, more options are always a good thing, and perhaps in the future we'll have more reasons to use mainline linux on phones.
carepack@reddit
I‘m long time jolla user, former port contributer. Biggest problem are the unsatisfied promises they made. We have now c2, nearly usable as non techie and a new Jolla phone on the way. mostly the hardware was already old when customers got that in their hands and much older when almost everything was working.
I‘m cusrios when which device is fully working. In the time of digital souvereignty eu support would be the way to go. I love the company, idea and devices but until the device isn’t ready for non technical enthusiasts, I won’t see any chance to reach more audience / customers
ahjolinna@reddit
well some of the promises was because of lack of funding or/and because their funders had other goals/values, but now that Jolla is back to being independent they can do what they want...just limited by their resources/funds.
when it comes to the new Jolla phone will be using just announced SoC, yes other components are older but they are mostly fine, and the other half seems to be coming https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/jolla-phone-update-lights-on-technical-bits-and-the-schedule/27821
endcycle@reddit
"the big weakness is app support is kinda shitty"
I am not saying I won't hop to a linux phone, but that seems to be a huge hurdle for widespread adoption. Of course, some might view that as a feature not a bug..... :) but I am truly spoiled by the "it just works" nature of my iphone that provides a consistent experience across the board, from upgrade to upgrade. Well, mostly.
I AM super excited about this project, tho. It really does seem like there's a lot there to love, and I can't wait to watch this mature a bit more. Get that app stuff more seamless and I'm probably in.
Linuksoid@reddit
The question is how to easily integrate iphone with linux. On android, kde connect is almost seamless. KDE connect doesn't work the best on ios (particularly clipboard transfer) and I need to use localsend for that. Its just extra steps
duo8@reddit
iOS limitations guarantee these kinds of apps will never work. Best bet is someone reverse engineering the continuum features, but considering there’s still no complete open airdrop reimplementation that’s unlikely.
Linuksoid@reddit
There is a rumor that in Android 17, Google reverse engineered AirDrop and Pixel phones can airdrop to iphones and vice versa. If that is true, that's huge and hope it can be implemented into KDE Connect
Fr0gm4n@reddit
Not rumor. Quick Share has supported AirDrop for months on Pixel 10, and Pixel 9 support was added just the other day.
https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/platforms/android/quick-share-airdrop/
https://www.macrumors.com/2026/02/17/android-iphone-airdrop-pixel-9-support/
Linuksoid@reddit
Ah thanks! Hope it comes to the rest of android soon. Any info on that? Or is that a pixel exclusive feature?
duo8@reddit
They did, but the implementation isn’t open IIRC and it would be out of scope for kde connect anyway, it’d have to be its own project. Wouldn’t even be the first as we already have OWL.
endcycle@reddit
I use Termius to connect to my local linux boxes from my ipad / iphone, and it works pretty well. Haven't tried KDE connect yet - generally don't do a lot of things that would require it.
TheG0AT0fAllTime@reddit
I both like and dislike Termius. They did that big AI push the other year and without asking me, they seem to be storing sudo passwords in the app (And cloud) by default. They also gift you premium for like a week randomly which definitely uploads all of that to the cloud once it gets the premium mode opportunity. And who knows how they're storing all of that up there too.
Like, why can't it just be a good terminal and stop there. Please. It's always about making money.
endcycle@reddit
The ai push added some weirdness to the UI that I don’t love. I know there are some other good options out there but I’m also kinda lazy and only need it occasionally so I can’t be bothered. :)
TheG0AT0fAllTime@reddit
Same here 😞
Linuksoid@reddit
Oh for me, I use kde connect like airdrop/universal clipboard to have anything i copy on my linux machine/android instantly available. Can you do that with Termius?
endcycle@reddit
No - it’s just an ssh terminal.
frnxt@reddit
The last two years I went through getting rid of almost all Google-related things on my phone, and in retrospect that was a great decision: now the barrier to go to a completely non-Android non-iOS is very slim!
endcycle@reddit
I have 2 barriers remaining - I am all in on Apple Music as my streamer, and… I really dont wanna be the green guy in the texting. :)
tuxbass@reddit
Oh the other kids in your class will call you names, but eventually they'll give up.
endcycle@reddit
You tenacity of my family and friends.
eighthourblink@reddit
When I was messing around with Linux phones, couple years back, Waydroid seemed like it could be a thing.
But I agree about normal people being able to switch over
Mo_Dice@reddit
It absolutely will be. The app store(s) and how they function have long-since become the standard. A rocky, janky, Linux phone is fine for enthusiasts, but average people these days have zero tolerance for friction.
acoralemelhor@reddit
I am an Android dev ready to start creating and porting my apps to Sailfish OS, let’s see how everything goes this year with the new phone, they need to attract more devs
Jedibeeftrix@reddit
love my 10iii
kingpubcrisps@reddit (OP)
Ditto, wasn’t expecting to but it’s a lovely phone. Just replaced the battery too.
Moo-Crumpus@reddit
What is this butterfly keyboard in front of you, the ergonomic black one?
kingpubcrisps@reddit (OP)
It’s a Targus AKF003US Bluetooth Keyboard, only downside is it’s micro USB, apart from that really nice.
_angh_@reddit
Hardly an ergo. If you're interested in getting a keyboard which is actually made for human to use (not 200 years old design made to slow down typing so the mechanical levers wont stuck) check out stuff like Elora, Charybdis, Keyball and so on.
Scandiberian@reddit
Stuff looks fuggly mate.
kansetsupanikku@reddit
Linux is just a kernel
It's already being used on most smartphones
This bs is even worse than Android, both technically and by licensing model
vetgirig@reddit
There is two big reasons to support this smartphone:
Damglador@reddit
Hell yeah, more attention to Linux phones!