The time has finally come to determine the legality of FRTs in Florida
Posted by ejpman@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 106 comments
"The Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office said that on September 7, 2025, deputies were working undercover at the West Palm Beach Gun Show and were advised of a vendor selling bump stocks, also known as Force Reset Triggers, at a booth.
According to the report, these triggers are designed to allow a semi-automatic firearm, like the AR-15, to fire at a rate mimicking that of a fully automatic weapon, which is illegal in Florida."
Though they initially declare them as bump stocks it seems that the accused was selling FRTs. I'm assuming this language was used to directly tie the arrest to language used in FL 790.222.
idk_names1@reddit
2a laws have been written the same way since the beginning of time super vague as to cast the largest net possible if you haven’t been paying attention across the country as of lately they are really putting 2a under attack they truly do want to take the right away from law abiding citizens or make it impossible to abide by legally
Hkfn27@reddit
"bump stocks, also known as Force Reset Triggers"
They really wrote this in the article. You can't hate the media enough.
ejpman@reddit (OP)
The statue they arrested him would technically define it as a bump stock which is part of the problem. For once they aren't technically wrong lol.
"790.222 Bump-fire stocks prohibited.—A person may not import into this state or transfer, distribute, sell, keep for sale, offer for sale, possess, or give to another person a bump-fire stock. A person who violates this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this section, the term “bump-fire stock” means a conversion kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device used to alter the rate of fire of a firearm to mimic automatic weapon fire or which is used to increase the rate of fire to a faster rate than is possible for a person to fire such semiautomatic firearm unassisted by a kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device."
Hkfn27@reddit
Let's get this guy connected to GOA. Hopefully they repeal that stupid law.
Wyno222@reddit
Been waiting for an arrest to be made so that this law can hopefully be challenged. I watch FRT videos and just sigh.
definitelynotpat6969@reddit
Still better than the Degenocrats we have in CO, they draft up a new 2A infringement every time I take a shit (which is frequent).
Wyno222@reddit
Trust me, as a life long Floridian…a few years ago Colorado was in the mix four our mountain retirement home. Not anymore…and because of the yearly introduction of more 2A infringements. We’re squarely set on east TN now.
Puzzleheaded_Fix3135@reddit
TN seems like it’s moving more anti 2a too recently.
idk_names1@reddit
I agree I’m thinking of taking a job there and leaving FL but that’s a big concern they seem to be infected with the anti 2a n woke virus
Good_Girl9090@reddit
Arkansas is better I think.
WiseDirt@reddit
That's sadly just kinda how our system of law works here in the US. You can't file suit to challenge a law unless you've personally been damaged by it in some way first. Washington state takes full advantage of this by putting laws on the books and never enforcing them so there can't be any case law or precedent set against it.
Wyno222@reddit
Well, it’s taken since 2018 for this law to be in a place of challenge…should the defense decide to contest the statute itself…which probably seems like the best defense as long as it isn’t a public defender.
TacTurtle@reddit
You can bumpfire without a bumpstock, should be easy to dismiss when there are guys like this bumpfiring entire mags with an unmodified rifle
firearmresearch00@reddit
This just in, fingers are now legally machine guns and have to be registered through the NFA before they can be allowed to touch a trigger /s
ps3x42@reddit
Whatcha got there, a belt loop? That's a felony.
BBQSauce61@reddit
Jerry Miculek is illegal here... Sad...
TommyPaine997@reddit
He’s the reason someone would be acquitted, actually.
Bortjort@reddit
they need an expert witness who can shoot really really fast
TommyPaine997@reddit
Correct. A person—not “the” or “said” person.”
Many other problems with 790.222 constitutionally.
Atty, Gutmacher covers it on his website:
https://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/the-end-of-bump-stocks-in-florida-and-a-few-other-unexpected-things/.
General-Amount-5577@reddit
So if you hypothetically have one within the state then it is not illegal (If you are not trying to sell it, only for keeping purposes?).
ejpman@reddit (OP)
"possess"
TacosNGuns@reddit
Sounds like a well crafted law to block bump stacks and any other device intended to mimic a full auto.
Just_Dig_428@reddit
I dont own any but Actually severely wrong rare breed triggers proved they are not machine guns legally and only ship their atf approved frts to florida and to apply the bump stock law to frts is a stretch esp if the initial trigger installed in the gun was an frt then no fire rate was ever increased..
Just_Dig_428@reddit
Also not to mention at the end, it says if you can replicate whatever you’re doing with the device with your own hands, then it’s technically legal is essentially what the wording implies ever heard of bumpfiring?
MONSTERBEARMAN@reddit
Don’t forget, braces are also bump stick according to some politicians as well.
The_perc30_man@reddit
how does a brace increase the rate of a firearm? & its 100% legal to put a brace on a arp and shoulder it while shooting
MONSTERBEARMAN@reddit
It doesn’t. They had it confused with a bump stock. It was just another politician that knows absolutely nothing about firearms, but thinking they know best how to regulate them.
New_Half_6055@reddit
Apples, also known as oranges.
LegendActual@reddit
Blame the purposely vague and confusing FL statute. It defines a “bump stock” as any device that increases rate of fire, so based on the law a trigger could be a “bump stock”.
AmbiguousAnonymous@reddit
Asinine!
My father lives in RI and apparently a loaded magazine counts as a loaded weapon, regardless if you have the actual firearm with you or not. It’s crazy what can get codified by one state legislature.
SierraDespair@reddit
Yes it’s gotten that bad here. We have to take mags to the range unloaded and kept separate to the guns.
whiskey_tang0_hotel@reddit
That’s what happens when people who have zero understanding of firearms write firearm law.
Glum-One2514@reddit
That's nuts.
GuardianZX9@reddit
My finger fits that definition.
Fung_us_@reddit
Goodbye pants belt loops, No more jeans. Back to suspenders!
kilroy-was-here-2543@reddit
Don’t attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. I doubt they know the difference
Fizziksapplication@reddit
The problem is, it’s the media’s job to educate themselves on a subject before they report on it. “Incompetence” is not a good enough excuse for this kind of mistake.
kilroy-was-here-2543@reddit
While I get what you mean, for non gun people this difference is basically meaningless. Both let you simulate full auto without actually having full auto, that’s all that matters to them. It’s like expecting them to know the difference between a SCAR and AR15, both are scary black rifles too them
Fizziksapplication@reddit
These are the people we trust to educate the masses, it’s their job to be correct with details man. Come the fuck on. If any of us was this bad at our jobs we’d have been fired a long time ago.
kilroy-was-here-2543@reddit
They genuinely do not care. It’s minuscule detail to them, and if they knew the difference they’d likely still not make the distinction because they don’t like guns
That’s why it’s important for us as gun enthusiasts and people who value the 2A to educate people about this sorta stuff
Additional_Dish_694@reddit
I’m trying to hate the media enough but I seriously can’t keep up
asianrockstar2009@reddit
a regular rubberband looped around the magazine guard and trigger does the exact same thing, are rubberbands banned too?
this is just like the glock switches no matter what stupid law there is people will just find a work around
Huge-Ad-5503@reddit
late to this but im pretty sure this is actually illegal unfortunately
AlphaRomeoCollector@reddit
Everyone reach out to Ron DeSantis as he was supposedly behind the bill to get this law removed. Let’s see if he is actually 2a friendly by pardoning this man.
https://www.flgov.com/eog/leadership/people/ron-desantis/contact
Embarrassed_Blood247@reddit
NO!!!! WE DO NOT WANT HIM PARDONED....We want the case to go on, we want a ruling in our favor that says it is not a simulation of full auto fire. Pardon helps one guy, a caselaw precedent helps everyone. Im going to law school and I will work on this case pro-bono for the attorney who is handling this case. Please DM me. I mean it, I will work for school credit.
TommyPaine997@reddit
We want the FL AG, as the chief legal authority in the state, to refuse to prosecute and officially write the court with jurisdiction in the matter that the state argues the man violated no law in the matter, and to release a public statement and opinion letter covering the same, that 790.222 is unconstitutional for many reasons (in common use for a lawful purpose, void for vagueness, rule of lenity, and lack of traditional historical analogue of such regulation dating back to 1791).
AlphaRomeoCollector@reddit
Works both ways. Governor pardons based on opinion of law, state attorneys drop charges statewide which has been happening on bump stocks. Friends with attorney getting a bump stock case dismissed based on prior dismissals in state. I do agree we usually want a case to go all the way to Florida SC but it will probably be dismissed before that.
Embarrassed_Blood247@reddit
There is no perfect poster child client. The past transgressions are not an indicator for the current case. This is why we take clients as we find them. It would be better to have the case ruled unconstitutional than to have the case dismissed or a pardon granted after they are found guilty.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
There's no law that says you can't own an FRT in florida. Literally rarebreed ships to FL. The laws about FRT are mainly due to bump stocks. But FRTs are definitely different.
ejpman@reddit (OP)
Go tell the Palm Beach County Sherrif's Office and get this guy released then. He was selling FRTs and the arrested him for selling them under 790.222.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
If he had a bump stock for sale than there is a law for that.
JustHereForLaughs71@reddit
Gotta read the law and how they define "bump-fire stocks". It includes bump stocks and any device, alteration, modification that makes a firearm fire faster.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
Florida does not classify FRT triggers as machine guns, so they are not banned under state law for ownership or use.
Possession is allowed for individuals 18 years or older who are legally permitted to own firearms in Florida.
Use of FRT triggers on firearms is permitted on private property and shooting ranges, subject to local rules.
Retailers in Florida can sell FRT triggers without special licensing beyond standard firearm accessory sales regulations.
Visitors to Florida may legally possess FRT triggers if they comply with Florida’s firearm possession laws during their stay.
FRTs are completely legal in FL thats why rarebreed ships to FL. I wish all the other FRT companies would do the same but they are either scared of lawsuits or are not informed enough.
Thylordslandered@reddit
So why is he arrested then bud.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
For selling bump stocks bud.
GestapoKittech@reddit
You're wrong, bud
"As used in this section, the term “bump-fire stock” means a conversion kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device used to alter the rate of fire of a firearm to mimic automatic weapon fire or which is used to increase the rate of fire to a faster rate than is possible for a person to fire such semiautomatic firearm unassisted by a kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device."
florida statute 790.222
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
I know plenty of people who own FRT which are drop in triggers. They act different when comparing it to a bump stock. They are legit to own in the state
GestapoKittech@reddit
You can know as many people as you want, that doesn't change the fact that bump stock is defined in Florida law as encompassing FRT.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
Lmao 🤣 you clearly dont get it. Thats ok. That doesn't change the fact that actual FRT not bumpstocks are legal in FL.
JustHereForLaughs71@reddit
They picked a word, defined it as it pertains to their new law, and made it illegal. If it makes it easier, change the word they chose (bump stock) for "skibbidy boop powies".
Skibbidy boop powies prohibited.—A person may not import into this state or transfer, distribute, sell, keep for sale, offer for sale, possess, or give to another person a skibbidy boop powies. A person who violates this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this section, the term “skibbidy boop powies” means a conversion kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device used to alter the rate of fire of a firearm to mimic automatic weapon fire or which is used to increase the rate of fire to a faster rate than is possible for a person to fire such semiautomatic firearm unassisted by a kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device. History.—s. 13, ch. 2018-3.
So now, with that being said, does it sound like an FRT is a "skibbidy boop powies" and illegal under Florida law?
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
Florida does not classify FRT triggers as machine guns, so they are not banned under state law for ownership or use.
Possession is allowed for individuals 18 years or older who are legally permitted to own firearms in Florida.
Use of FRT triggers on firearms is permitted on private property and shooting ranges, subject to local rules.
Retailers in Florida can sell FRT triggers without special licensing beyond standard firearm accessory sales regulations.
Visitors to Florida may legally possess FRT triggers if they comply with Florida’s firearm possession laws during their stay.
Again the law doesn't say FRT which is a device that resets the trigger by force. If FRT were considered MGs than there is still a federal ban for MG unless you are class 3. If you want to view it as any device that cause the firearm to shoot full auto than a rubber bands would be illegal as well. Companies like rare breed understand the law which is why they ship to FL. As of now he was wrongful arrested due to a lack of understanding the law. It will be up to the courts now to interpret the law.
Logical-Scale3210@reddit
The federal ban isn’t relevant to this conversation because states can pass individual legislation. The law being referenced isn’t even about machine guns but literally anything that increases rate of fire.
JustHereForLaughs71@reddit
I hope you're right. But an FRT is a device which increases the rate of fire to a faster rate that is possible for a person to fire such semiautomatic firearm unassisted by a kit. And that is what the law prohibits.
I have mine. I enjoy it. But I know I am taking a risk using it. Hopefully we will have a lawyer clatify the wording of the statute so I can use it without worry.
The_perc30_man@reddit
he’s is not, you think if binary triggers are illegal cus they change rate of fire an frt isn’t?
Glittering_School154@reddit
by lettering of the law it is a felony in florida, i dont think it should be but this guy is 100000% wrong
The_perc30_man@reddit
buddy the affidavit literally states “jackson had a warrant related to the sale of a bumb-fire stock (forced reset trigger)” indicating frt are considered bump stock device since the increase rate of fire, has nothing to do with it being classified as a machine gun, same with binary trigger they are illegal cus the change rate of fire
Logical-Scale3210@reddit
Rarebreed may ship to Florida but a bunch of other companies don’t and the law may be written in a way that is stupid but it was clearly written in a way that allows them to charge someone for ANYTHING that lets you increase fire rate. Nobody is saying the law isn’t stupid but that’s how it’s written.
GestapoKittech@reddit
Sure thing, bud. That's why this guy was arrested, because what he was doing was legal.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
👍
ArrezTheAce@reddit
Curious how it plays out. Despite being the "Gunshine" state we sure do hate fun.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Yeah you guys have con Carry but you need a training course if you want a conceal permit. And without the permit you have a waiting period law of 3-5 business days. So weekends and holidays don't count. Because reasons.
The_perc30_man@reddit
buddy what are you on about? you dont need a concealed permit to conceal or open carry & there are plenty of people to pay $50-$100 & they just email you training course certification
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
What did I say that was incorrect? I said you can con-carry, but you need the course for a permit if you want one. And if you don't have the permit, there is a 3-5 day wait period.
$50-$100 more than should be needed.
The_perc30_man@reddit
why would i be pissy bud i got a permit when i don’t even need it, & anyone can go to a gun show and buy off a private seller, leave same day with the gun
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
You're pissy enough to come back and necromancy a 3 week old thread. Lol. Rent free.
ejpman@reddit (OP)
It’s technically not even constitutional carry it’s just that there’s no longer a requirement to be licensed to carry.
GunGooser@reddit
Laws are so fucking dumb here
MONSTERBEARMAN@reddit
Is it true you can’t even watch pornhub? That’s full turbo tyranny if you ask me.
Maleficent_Repeat850@reddit
Not just porn hub....
Coodevale@reddit
The welcome signs say "the free state".. nope.
Sufficient-Being4008@reddit
If they make a law specifically to ban frt would that mean that it was legal to own before that law.. and if I bought a whole box of them before they passed said law would they be grandfathered in?
Entire_Vegetable_232@reddit
Fu*# COPs!!
GhostofDaiLi@reddit
Yall dont hate rick scott enough
ILikeScrapple@reddit
Rick Scott is a US senator and has no say in state law.
GhostofDaiLi@reddit
What was rick scott doing in 2018 when this law passed....
Maleficent_Repeat850@reddit
I will never understand how he got elected as senator after the governor debacle man. Florida loves corrupt politicians.
ButtSoupCarlton69@reddit
If only he was the Governor at some point....
Discussion_Infamous@reddit
This some bullshit. I'm planning on installing an FRT into a honey badger clone. I'm currently stationed in North Carolina, but I move back to Florida at the end of this year. I would assume I should've even buy the FRT.
General-Amount-5577@reddit
Idk man. It seems like the guy got arrested for selling that kind of stuff. Perhaps having it and not selling it is fine? Also there are videos of people in FL showing off their FRTs and nothing happens to them lol.
TestWest5564@reddit
The law states that any modification that allows rate of fire faster than humanly possible isn't allowed, thats why FRT's fall into this ban and this law is incredibly broad.
I was reading recently that apparently FRT's have been allowed in FL but I cant seem to find any actual .gov site actually confirming this.
JohnnyGrilledCheese@reddit
So disappointed Florida of all states does this. This is some Minnesota shit
True-Tomatillo7455@reddit
Bump stocks are the same as a FRT?
ejpman@reddit (OP)
In Florida anything that increases fire rate is defined as a “bump stock” whether or not it functions/resembles the items actually sold as bump stocks.
True-Tomatillo7455@reddit
So I guess that they classify Mario Kart as driving a real car?
ejpman@reddit (OP)
If the Mario kart matched the description of a road legal vehicle then yes.
True-Tomatillo7455@reddit
Four wheels and powered by an engine.
ejpman@reddit (OP)
Common sense understanding of an idea doesn’t apply to the law unfortunately. The definition is seemingly vague on purpose and defines anything that increases the rate of fire a bump stock.
“790.222 Bump-fire stocks prohibited.—A person may not import into this state or transfer, distribute, sell, keep for sale, offer for sale, possess, or give to another person a bump-fire stock. A person who violates this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this section, the term “bump-fire stock” means a conversion kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device used to alter the rate of fire of a firearm to mimic automatic weapon fire or which is used to increase the rate of fire to a faster rate than is possible for a person to fire such semiautomatic firearm unassisted by a kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device.”
SkeleTim561@reddit
Frt's and even bumpstocks don't even increase the rate of fire beyond what they could already do without them 🤷♂️
Adorable_Rhubarb4756@reddit
Went to a gun show in sc over a year ago One booth had huge signs saying “FRT & super safeties”
When i went up he said “ I just sold may last SS to him” pointing at the cop stationed at the show
You’d think most cops would know and be on the side of frt. guess not
ejpman@reddit (OP)
I mean FRTs aren’t illegal in SC so it would make sense that the cops are cool with it there….
Akconcentrates@reddit
We got our test subject!!!
jeffh40@reddit
So the guy (presumably) knowingly broke the FL state law and sold things that were illegal there.
You got to be careful about those State laws. There is 50 of them and not all of them are the same.
RedOnlineOfficial@reddit
The law that was broken is unconstitutional. Shall not be infringed means exactly that. The founding fathers didn't write it with a list of exceptions.
OcSpeed@reddit
This law is ambiguous at best
Darksept@reddit
WTF Florida. Fix those laws. Forced Reset should be legal everywhere. Hell, full auto should be legal everywhere. That bump stock law is vague as hell. I hope someone spots this guy a great lawyer. Stuff like this is what would keep me from moving to Florida. I refuse to trade down to a less free state.
L3t_me_have_fun@reddit
Isn’t this the state that convicted CRS over a drawing they admitted they couldn’t make work?