Teaching kids Linux first
Posted by LPHandy@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 113 comments
My kids (11 and 13) have had Chromebooks for school but never had their own "real" computer before (š).
I purchased two refurbished Dell Optiplex 7040 small form-factor computers, and have selected MX Linux as their first distro.
Has anyone here raised their kids with Linux systems before Windows or Mac? What advice would you share with me to make their experience more enjoyable?
Tiny_Salamander@reddit
My sysadmin dad had Linux computers for us when I was younger but I only really web browsed on it, so I never learned much about Linux itself.
20ish years later I'm desperately learning as much as possible about Linux so I too can be a sysadmin and maybe have some sort of career.
All that to say I have no idea what to suggest. Maybe show them some basic command line stuff and maybe even basic coding/python, and just foster their questions and curiosity.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
See this is exactly the kind of response I was looking for! Thank you.
I have been into Linux since 1998 and put Windows away for good after XP went unsupported. Now after years of dead end jobs I'm finally getting into InfoSec, gathering all the certifications I can until it happens.
I guess I can't expect them to want to do the same, but instead leave the possibilities of IT available to them and help them along as I can.
Learning C++ as a middle schooler is highly ambitious. Imagine what could have been if it were a Python or JavaScript book? He meant well.
PutridAssignment1559@reddit
The summer before 6th grade I decided I wanted to make a point and click adventure game. I knew nothing about computers but asked my ācomputer nerdā friend how to make a game. He just told me I would need to learn c/c++. I bought c for dummies that afternoon.
I got pretty far on my own, even though I didnāt have talent. It was the 90s, so there was no YouTube and not a ton of resources online.
Never made my adventure game, but by 8th grade I was doing some interesting things with open gl, was using some more advanced data structures for projects like hash tables, etc.
Took some classes in high school but didnāt peruse a career. Definitely possible for a middle schooler to learn this stuff, especially now. But they have to be intrinsically motivated.
Tiny_Salamander@reddit
Lol no problem! It's mostly funny just looking back in retrospect. I had other interests my parents fostered quite well.
But your kids personality will definitely need to be taken into account too. I thought about it but I'm not sure if I could get any of my nieces or nephews into computers even if I showed him something cool like ethical hacking. I might try now though.
Good luck though!
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Creating these kinds of things is something I have in mind. Like disabling our DNS server and having them SSH into it and figure out why it's not working.
Little pre-hacking projects.
Chance-Day323@reddit
That's great, my son learned a ton about computers when we disagreed over screen time and I made hidden scripts to log off/lock out the computer...
Tiny_Salamander@reddit
Damn that sounds fun. If they're not into it you can teach me lol.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Don't toy with me! LOL. I love teaching Linux & networking.
anatomiska_kretsar@reddit
that's like learning how to ride a bicycle to learning how to drive a manual car lmfao
Tiny_Salamander@reddit
I know right. I love the man but he's always been like that.
When I was getting into Linux and first installed Ubuntu and was talking to him about it he was like "oh you gotta get into Ansible and Kubernetes" and I'm like bro I just discovered what LVM is š I'll get there.
rUbberDucky1984@reddit
So my first is 8 weeks now and starting to plan, figured she can have anything she wants as long as you make it yourself, for starters all toys will come from my cnc machine and there will always be wood available, gonna try get her to draw stuff then make it. was thinking linux phone, rockpi's for servers and pinebooks and pinetabs that sort of thing then create her own internet with mastodon and mattermost and nexcloud etc but..... pretty sure reality will kick in and will go to shit but gonna give it a try anyway! hopefully I'll get some support form the community, will also try volunteer at the school whereever she ends up around the tech stuff
4SubZero20@reddit
So my 2c for what it's worth.
I have a 2 y/o son, and my wife is pregnant with the second.
I have already decided I am going to teach both of them Linux. Honestly, I don't know how yet, but I still have a few years to figure that out.
My reasons are as follows:
Terminal/CLI: Doesn't matter whether it's a server, Windows pc in "safe mode," normal Linux boot, tty, etc. The terminal/cli is scary for new users.
I am a software developer, but I was a Windows user for years and did everything via the GUI. This made the terminal/cli an uncomfortable place to work (and put me on the backfoot), yet it is necessary in this line of field. Years later, and after switching to Linux, I am much more comfortable with the terminal.
For lack of better term: To develop their Linux skills. (This also ties in with CLI) It seems trivial, but considering they will most likely be exposed to Windows and/or Mac, they'll be comfortable with that with continuous use at school/work. I've also noticed a lot of my peers aren't too comfortable with Linux, despite being developers. Considering the most servers that are used for hosting or that OS of the top 100/1000 supercomputers runs on is Linux, you need some degree of familiarity with it.
I feel Linux is an overall better toolbox: Yes, there is a lot of overlapping technology between Linux, Windows and Mac, especially in the development world, however between Linux and Windows I have found the tools working better "out-of-the-box" than Windows. With Windows I always need to change/set something. With Linux it's there, but no soooo much (in my experience), so this makes productivity go up.
In short: I feel like the Internet and most powerful pc's around the world runs on Linux. Yes, know there is a % of Windows out there but Linux dominates that market.
That in itself tells me, there is a need to understand Linux, even if it is just a basic level.
ecker00@reddit
Inspiring to read, my oldest is about to turn 3 and wondering how I should introduce computers (Linux), you had any more ideas?
He's had a keyboard in his own mini office space for a while, he's becoming patient and I think we can soon start to introduce a real computer there within the next year or so.
MaverickBrainiac@reddit
Totally agree with you.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Man, great comment. I agree on all counts. Cloud servers are predominantly Linux based. A huge sector of IT is now cloud based and growing more every day. Managing cloud platforms is, and for the foreseeable future will be, performed on PCs. Our kids will inherit a digital world that operates on the cloud, and there will be a demand for it.
warpflyght@reddit
I have my niece and nephew running Ubuntu on a pair of computers I helped them build around the time of their eighth birthdays. They each were really interested in having a "real" computer of their own. I initially set them up with some cheap Chromebooks, but for whatever reason, they were each independently fixated on having a desktop machine. Their parents are not at all computer-savvy, so I am effectively their remote sysadmin. I taught them to install software updates and have tried to introduce online safety and computer security topics over time.
My niece is very happy with Ubuntu. She mostly uses Firefox, and was agog when I showed her Wikipedia. (I think she mostly browses YouTube, though...) My nephew is getting into gaming, so he's frustrated that he can't run certain games on his Ubuntu system; he really wants a copy of Windows. I find this pretty funny, since I very much moved in the opposite direction. When he's earning more allowance money I'm going to introduce him to Steam.
The biggest challenge for me has been the lack of good parental control software. I have shell access to the machines via WireGuard and can easily do standard sysadmin stuff, but when my nephew excitedly showed me how to set the executable bit on a downloaded binary and run it, I realized I don't have a lot of tools to help ensure he's using the machine safely. I've told him a number of times not to download and run programs, and pointed him at safe sources of software via apt and Snap, but he just wants to install a Minecraft mod and blindly follows the instructions he finds. I'm proud of his resourcefulness, but he's also headed towards trouble, and I've been struggling to balance the two things!
I'd prefer a reporting mechanism to a broad prohibition on executing downloaded code, but a "hey, I see you downloaded this and are trying to run it; what does your uncle say?" alert might be nice too. I've sometimes found myself wishing for the equivalent of macOS's Gatekeeper feature. The tools that do exist are pretty enterprise-focused. I can roll my own solutions using SELinux and what not, but that's fiddly and time-consuming. The other platforms have sophisticated tools to help manage kids' devices.
(I'm also bumping up against Linux's security model of protecting root against users. That doesn't help when I need some basic protection of the users' accounts against the users themselves. Windows, macOS, Android, and iOS have all moved away from the protect-root-at-all-costs model, because it doesn't make as much sense for single-user systems operated by novice users.)
I don't want the kids to be stuck on extremely locked-down systems. I want them to be able to explore and break things so they can learn to fix them. (One of my most formative computing experiences in the 90s was learning how to fix my XF86Config rather than reinstalling Linux whenever I accidentally broke X.) I think Linux provides some great opportunities for that. But it does require an involved adult to help hold hands and be a sysadmin. And that's hard to do from far away like I am.
The above hasn't caused me to reconsider Ubuntu for their computers. My nephew's predilection for blindly executing downloaded code would cause him even more trouble on Windows, after all! But setting the kids up with Linux has reminded me anew just how much custom configuration and tooling goes into operating a Linux box.
bonoDaLinuxGamr@reddit
Man, your niece reminds of my youth LOL (Although it wasn't video games and more of titties)
The reason I am so fixated on security and internet safety is because of the fuckups I had on my mom's laptops (ALL of the trojans, viruses, malwares, warez you name it)
From my personal experience, I think its better to fuck up early and find out how scary the internet is than to find out later on when you're an adult.
Just make sure the network is isolated so it doesn't get messy tho
Itchy_Journalist_175@reddit
Same experience here, running Ubuntu at home, my son has his own account and showed me the other day that he installed an app off the internet.
I was convinced that he wouldnāt be able to break anything as I noticed before some installers in the Downloads folder and assumed that every website would make him download Windows executables but apparently not. That made me realise that with the wrong programme, he certainly has the ability to delete everything in his $HOME directory. At least we have backupsā¦
warpflyght@reddit
Backups are something I haven't set up for them yet, and I probably should. I'm trying not to take over IT for their whole house, but I could drop a Raspberry Pi onto the network with some storage for automated backups without much difficulty.
I was definitely surprised to find my nephew had tracked down Linux binaries (and some JAR files). I figured the first thing we'd bump into would be random shell scripts, and I can try to teach him to read those.
Awkward_Tradition@reddit
As a kid, the thing that taught me the importance of cyber security was messing around with script kiddie malware. Especially, when I accidentally opened my own Trojan and had to reinstall windows.
Load up a VM, show them how opening a random binary completely owned his system, and he'll take more care in the future. Hell, might as well before that teach them about email security and try to prank them if they open up random binaries they received from an almost correct address.
warpflyght@reddit
Yeah... and I grew up on BBSes, downloading utilities and door games. I managed not to get myself into too much trouble. I love the idea of setting up a VM and showing him what can go wrong. I might even be able to teach him to spin up isolated VMs to test newly-downloaded programs before he runs them in his usual environment.
Thanks for the ideas! :)
Nordmadrinn@reddit
For most users it shouldn't matter much? Devices have changed a lot. Today it is point and click, and it just works. It matters to gamers and average users with special use cases relating to a special software.
For power users the difference is great tho. Just my take.
I think I will go your route. I don't have a laptop, but I have understood battery is the biggest issue?
MrPootisBrights@reddit
Install Minecraft Java Edition for them.
Install mods so they can learn to navigate thru folders and extracting archives.
go_comatose_for_me@reddit
My kid learned Linux as that was the only thing I had in the house. He didn't really have a choice, so I'm not sure about your kids. I will say my kid (in his 20s now), knows his way around Linux, but runs a windows computer at his house for work and gaming.
I would show them the desktop, how to customize things (basic at first, color, themes, etc) and how to start applications, and leave curiosity to do the rest.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
I only have Linux in the house, but part of me feels like I should encourage them to use whatever they like. Conversely, set aside that they don't yet know what they like, I feel like starting them with Linux gives them a leg up. Perhaps the opposite?
I appreciate the feedback!
domsch1988@reddit
I feel like you're overthinking this.
From all the kids i have around me, almost none care for computers. Smartphones and Tablets at best. But mostly, what ever device does what they want, they use. Desktop Computers are pretty much a hobby only thing now. If they are passionate about it, then they will explore what's there. It sounds like you are passionate about it, and that will, to an extend, translate to children.
The number of people that care for their OS is INCREDIBLY small. I know reddit bubbles make it feel like we are many, but we aren't. And i would assume most children are the same. They use what's there and don't think about it.
I also wouldn't say running linux is beneficial or detrimental for their future. I work in IT and work with people raised on Windows 3.11, Windows 7, OS X and one or two that don't own a PC privately. And none of it says anything about how good they are at there job or how successfull they are. One of our main Datacenter engineers doesn't own a PC at home and only ever works with PCs at work. Brilliant guy.
All i'm saying is: Stop caring about the OS. Use what you feel comfortable with and try to see if they are interested in learning more about this. If they are, great. Show them around and all the options. But don't be frustrated if they never care for the OS they are running. Most people aren't.
minnesotajersey@reddit
This answers the questions I have had about the many Linux posts I see in my feed, the primary being: āWhat is so exciting about the operating system?ā since I was only ever concerned with the programs I used on top of it.
jelly_cake@reddit
Free access to the source code for your operating system is pretty exciting. It doesn't seem as revolutionary now, particularly since Microsoft owns GitHub and really pushes their image as being "open source friendly", but it's definitely not something we should take for granted. We probably would have had some sort of equivalent to Linux had Torvalds not shared his kernel (GNU was working on Hurd at the time, and Minix was around before Linux) but nothing else has supplanted it in its niches yet.
It's very cool how successful Linux has become - it might not be the year of the Linux desktop, but with Android, it's been the year of the Linux phone for a long time. If SCO had won their source code IP dispute, who knows where we'd be. Competition can drive innovation, but so can collaboration, and Linux is a testament to that.
minnesotajersey@reddit
Yes. But once you install it and tweak it all (I see a lot about āmaking it your ownā so to speak), what do yo actually do with it?
As a non-hobbyist, I do pretty much nothing with my operating systems. Itās all the software that the OS allows me to run.
jelly_cake@reddit
Yeah, that's basically it. It's ideologically exciting; practically it's like any other OS: a platform for other stuff to be built on top of.
You shouldn't understate the whole "make it your own" aspect though - Linux can run on anything from supercomputers the size of a room to a single circuit board half the size of a credit card, all depending on how you customise it. It's a very flexible tool for building cool hardware projects with.
minnesotajersey@reddit
With the quotation marks I was saying that you customize to your own liking, not being locked in to everything that happens by the likes of Microslop.
Thatās my perception of āopen sourceā- a do with it what you wish, use it for whatever you want or can mentality.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Excellent reply. Thought provoking for sure. I should have prefaced this whole thread with mentioning that both kids have expressed interest in having their own PCs, one of them because his extracurricular is being a part of a Lego robotics team. He did some coding and seemed to enjoy it.
As for the preference for operating systems, that is a great point. I set up an old man with Linux because his.... surfing habits... kept bringing me over to his house to remove viruses. He didn't give a damn how it worked he only knows he doesn't seem to be getting viruses anymore.
JumpyJuu@reddit
I can recommend the Gambas3 integrated development environment for any one learning to code.
ThroawayPartyer@reddit
Does the software your kids need for LEGO Mindstorms support Linux? I see here that EV3 Lab only has releases for Windows and macOS.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Not sure about that, but also not planning to do Lego stuff at home. More Pi based micro controllers, scratch, Python etc. Is what I was thinking.
secretlyyourgrandma@reddit
teaching them scripting and how computers actually work is the leg up. you can probably teach them better on linux than windows, but if they want a windows box I wouldn't tell them no.
Ancapgast@reddit
I think that using Linux and Open Source software as a 'default' is not a had thing to teach your kids.
If they really need some proprietary software, you can still install it. But why should the default not be a free option?
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
If more of the world was open source hits blunt weed all be free.
Ancapgast@reddit
Hah yeah, something like that.
CityYogi@reddit
Iām planning to ensure my kids learn linux when they reach the age of using computers. They can grow up and do whatever they want but i feel like learning a bit of linux when they are young can not hurt them.
I am expecting my first child in june :P
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Whoa first, dude, congratulations! You're in for quite a ride.
Now, I definitely feel like Linux has to at least be a major component of their experience. I don't like Microsoft at all, and currently have none of their products in our home. But after talking with people in this thread, I'm thinking it isn't fair to limit their natural growth. If they grow up to be Azure out Windows admins oil still be proud.
Having some machines that dual boot with Windows, or VMs, won't hurt me.
hudsonnick824@reddit
Should have taught him as much about virtualization and KVM so he didn't have to have Windows on baremetal. That would have been next fucking level
Sushisource@reddit
To be fair, if youāre gaming you probably want windows on metal (some more⦠painful setups excepted)
4672656542656572@reddit
Linux was a mystery to me as a kid. I basically blew it off and just "stuck" with Windows through most of my adult life. I think you taking the mystery out of it is a big step. If I knew even 1% of what I know today, I would have done this years ago.
knowone1313@reddit
This is a great idea. I really wish I had the nix intro to computing as a kid instead of DOS/windows and old school Apple II. Even the DOS experience was too much for me as a kid, typing out the commands exactly as they were in the user manal of my first computer game and constantly getting syntax errors because I didn't know how to interpret what should and shouldn't be typed with the given symbols and braces that were often used. I couldn't ask my parents or anything for help because everyone I knew was basically as ignorant or more so than I was. The internet wasn't available either.
I'd say learning Linux at the start with someone that can give some good into guidance and basics is probably the best way to go as long as you keep in mind to just give them small bits and allow them to learn and become curious along the way. You want to let that curiosity grow and allow them to learn at their own pace so that you don't overwhelm them and discourage them from learning it.
It's like teaching your kids how to drive with a stick shift vs an automatic!
modified_tiger@reddit
Make sure they are computer literate, not just Linux literate. If they understand what a desktop, window manager, and file manager are they're already ahead.
grandpaJose@reddit
IMO this is the correct way too look at this and Linux is THE tool to teach them these concepts.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Valid points. Turning it on and letting them explore is one thing, but there should also be some structure that is fun and educational. Thanks!
kalzEOS@reddit
My 9 year old son has seen nothing but linux, not because I forced him, but I have nothing else in the house. lol
HiLumen@reddit
My oldest has been indoctrinated with the ipad eco system because that's what her school uses. That being said, when she uses my computer she is totally comfortable with the standard desktop features of Fedora. She doesn't really use my computer for anything other than playing a game or two, or using the web browser. It does make me happy that she is comfortable in windows, ipad, and linux. Being well rounded never hurts!
Swizzel-Stixx@reddit
I was raised with linux, and I could never go to windows again. No way. I think having a win10 system on dual boot is good, and there were times when I used windows more, as it had support for the apps I used, but my experience was horrible, and as soon as I could get the app to work on linux, it felt amazing. If your kids want windows better, may I put forward windows ameliorated, which is a bit higher maintenance but it makes windows a lot faster and more secure by debloating it massively. Ame has been a massive help for me making windows actually bearable.
Biaspli@reddit
I do feel like as Microsoft keeps pushing the cloud, there will be more that join linux, slowly but surely
laramite@reddit
That's why I am switching as of May 3rd for sole desktop use to either PopOS or Ubuntu. I was setting up a Dell windows 11 for the someone and MSFT wanted to force me to create an online account and tie to their cloud services. Found a hack around it to use local user. I don't mind using cloud services but on my terms. Given openai is deeply embedded in msft now...not sure what data is being siphoned w/o my consent to be used later as part of their AI training data.
-_Lost_-@reddit
My kids, 9 and 11, use Linux mostly. They do have windows as a dual boot but only use it for the couple games that don't work in Linux.
They use arch btw
Watynecc76@reddit
I am a Linux user since 6yo thanks to my father he learned me that a human can learn anything with internet now I'm a experienced Linux user and I love coding ;D I found myself with it
ZCC_TTC_IAUS@reddit
My little sister started off on a windows computer. But 5 or 6, she was shown like once or twice how to get into the bios, select the cd drive as the booting drive, slip in the box a mandriva live cd. All of this to play tux fucking racer.
I had an Atari ST in my room for games. I'm the one in IT, but my sister isn't afraid of a cli or something.
Point is about having a goal. What stick with them will is up in the air, but having tried various stuff is always better than that single "one true way".
leilani-and-sterling@reddit
My kids have grown up with arch + gnome. Install steam and use a GUI package manager (pamac). Kids are smart. Have no worries. We also use a trackball. My son agrees that mice suck.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Oh man! Off topic a bit, but I found my Dad's old trackball. He died in 2009. Not gonna lie I want to try it but I'm legitimately afraid I'm going to love it.
Thanks for the reply.
benhaube@reddit
Trackball mice SUCK....my personal opinion. LOL
jelly_cake@reddit
I didn't learn it "first" per se, but I used a Knoppix LiveCD as a 10 year old to play Nethack (well, Falconseye) and SuperTux with my brothers on our shared Windows laptop. My dad made a little cheat sheet for us with the command to back up/restore save files to the hard drive, so we could save scum and keep our progress from one boot to another. It was a great introduction to Linux (playing with KDE settings was so much fun!), and I started using Ubuntu Studio as a dual boot when I got my own laptop for school. years later, and all my personal machines have been Linux boxen since forever, and the only time I touch Windows is for work.
samdimercurio@reddit
My daughter uses a Linux computer right now for watching Netflix and such.
We havenāt ātaughtā her an os but itās the one she uses most. Sheās 7 so she doesnāt care that much.
Biaspli@reddit
Honestly smart idea, that's what I'm going to do with my kids when I have kids, im still in college lol. If I had to do it all over again in regards of learning how to use a pc when I had been given one at age 9, I would have opted out for linux. I'm still learning how to use Linux, but it's awesome!
KeyP2021@reddit
All my nieces and nephews only ever had Linux, and over time I moved their parents away from Windows too.
AlxAndrRaa@reddit
my first born is using Ubuntu on my old ex-job laptop. something like Dell Precision. I donāt think he knows something about any OS and their types š
Awkward_Tradition@reddit
I'm guessing they'll want to game. In that case rolling release > Debian stable. I suggest something arch based (Endeavour, Garuda, Arco). ArcoLinuxB could be an amazing first choice due to how many DEs and WMs they support. That support includes unified shortcuts, so it makes it the easiest option for exploring new environments.
Help them solve problems. Teach them to research.
Ricing could be a nice way to introduce them to writing configs, and teach them what parts are used to make their OS. If they bite, teach them elisp. By the time they can drink their first legal beers, they'll have the longest of neckbeards.
clockwork2011@reddit
This has southern preacher āthe only TV we need is the Bibleā vibes. Leave it to Reddit to make a tool like an OS a damn religion.
pREE837@reddit
My dad raised me on Debian. I don't remember much, but it was surreal. As a child, as long as I could open a browser and run Minecraft, I wouldn't care at all what was happening "inside"
I remember asking my dad constantly to put a Minecraft icon onto a desktop, so I could launch it easily. Instead, he showed me a command how to launch Minecraft from terminal (I think it was: java jar -some letter minecraft.jar). I had troubles remembering it, but once I did, I felt like a hacker. Installing mods was even harder for some reason, maybe it was because I can't just double-click on forge installer and expect it to work like on Windows
Next, I remember him coding a parental control system, that would log me out after a certain time. 30 mins of screen-time, I really hated him for that
I'm almost 20 now, and nowadays, I don't really hate Linux. Yes it's tough, but I actually want to try out Linux Mint myself, and maybe in the future dual boot Windows with Linux Mint. Practice makes perfect, be it messing around with advanced Minecraft mods, or using Linux in general
eingereicht@reddit
I learned Linux as a kid because the family laptop had it and I liked it. I never knew anything about windows until i got into school and set my own laptop up with Linux later at 14.
To this day I own a Linux Server and Laptop and only use Windows on my Workstation for Gaming and Work.
I learned it because I liked it. If I had any questions, back then, I'd ask my dad. He never forced it on me. He just showed me possibilites and I learned myself. That's how it should be done.
r78SGmS8si1VY49@reddit
My two kids (currently 9 and 15) have used only Linux in the house since they were 4 years old. I think they have been exposed to Windows at school (besides Android and iOS on tablets).
They use the computer mostly to browse the net, watch movies, play some games (online games, Steam games and sometimes a Linux game), drawing (one of my kids likes to draw on the computer) and do some homework. During the pandemic they used their computers for video conferencing with their school (mostly with Zoom).
For context, they used first Ubuntu and later Ubuntu Mate (when Ubuntu changed to Gnome 3) mostly because the discoverability of applications is much better when you don't have to type (I mean, you can teach a 4 year-old to write, but c'mon [insert here rant about Gnome devs ignoring children and people with disabilities]).
Their users are set without password (I should change that now, but it was setup like that because they were too young when started). They don't have administration permissions in these computers.
Their computers are configured the same (I use cdist for configuration management, but I could have used chef, ansible, puppet or just bash scripts) so I can keep them updated and with a common configuration (this really reduce my "family tech support" time). One thing I cannot manage remotely are the Steam games.
I have a file server they can use to store their files (their computers don't have backups but the server do) but so far they don't use it (they have a folder which is a mounted Samba share).
Also, their computers have accounts for me and my wife, but they are encrypted with ecryptfs (the risk we consider is that we use the computers for work-related stuff but we don't trust the Steam games, specially because one of the kids likes to install third-party mods on some games). However, we don't usually use those computers except when there has been a hardware failure in the other computers.
Also, because they use a lot of time in Youtube, they have a Google account so that they van keep track of their viewing history. They also have their own Microsoft account (for Minecraft).
The only very custom things I set up in their computers were a cron script that shutdowns the computer if there is no mouse/keyboard activity for one hour (because I could not find a way to set the normal timeout is ignored when a movie is playing) and a custom version of VLC to limit the volume to 120%, not 200%.
T3a_Rex@reddit
my first computer was a mac
but at around 8 y/o my dad installed linux on a computer for me to learn linux/programming
i then really enjoyed linux and installed it on my chromebook to be less limited
now in my teen years i still use linux but thatās only thanks to me being introduced to it by my dad!
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
That's awesome! That's how I'd love for it to go for them, being such a Linux fanatic myself.
Have you also had a lot of exposure to Windows or more recent MacOS installations?
T3a_Rex@reddit
my favourite for general computing is macOS, thatās what I daily drive
for anything technical i like Linux
for gaming windows
ForbiddenRoot@reddit
Kids will use whatever you teach them and let them use. When I was a kid we only had MS-DOS mostly to play around with, no GUI, needing to tweak AUTOEXEC.BAT / CONFIG.SYS to get stuff to run, and we did just fine.
One problem may occur for your kids is when they want to do stuff exactly in a manner that their friends are doing on their computers. For most part there is an equivalent way to do things on Linux, but it can be more complicated unless it's setup and explained to them already. This includes gaming, which works absolutely great on Linux but setting up things is not as simple as it is on Windows and there could be occasional issues. The other problem is that in school they probably will be using Windows and they may have a bit of difficult time when they switch to that initially compared to other kids who have been using Windows all along.
All that being said, my 12-something year old kid is fine with Windows, Linux, and Macs but she mainly uses the GUI on all of these. If she gets stuck, I help her out and if the issue was simple enough she fixes it on her own the next time it occurs. YMMV.
Carabusproblematicus@reddit
I gave my nephews Thinkpad T430s with a locked-down KDE Plasma desktop. I downloaded a list of porn/ad sites and black-holed them in /etc/hosts, but I also removed most apps that they could use to get online. I installed MAME with a bunch of really old games I used to play in the arcades, and a few decent FOSS games they can play on LAN: SuperTux racer, SuperTux, Teeworlds, Xonotic (gore turned off), Mineclone (they think it's minecraft). They're in the 8-10 age range and they LOVE these games.
The way I look at it, there's no point trying to get them interested in programming or linux. Give them what they want but limit it - don't give them Steam, or access to `apt-get` where they can just browse stuff forever. Make them get a little bored. Maybe they'll try to build new maps in Xonotic? Maybe I'll hint that I can turn Mineclone maps into Xonotic maps? Maybe they'll figure out how to get to a terminal or find Firefox (the desktop is locked down, there is no file browser - but they can get to it if they plug in USB storage...). I have hinted to them subtly that there are hidden things that they're not allowed to access. "Oh, well we can't have you guys just browsing the web can we? Nope, I turned that stuff off! No ways you can find Firefox on that machine!" And that did the trick. About 2 weeks later one of them proudly showed me his laptop with Youtube open. He didn't spot that he was already logged into Youtube, and his account was age restricted. One day he might realise that I intended for him to find it. But since then he's interested in "poking around" more. He showed me a terminal the other day, but had no idea what it was for... "That's what I used to locked down your computer. It's called "bash", and it's probably better that you don't know how to use it."
kreugerburns@reddit
During the lockdowns when kids had elearning, my daughter used my Linux laptop and she didnt even notice. Mind you I just opened Firefox and she did what she needed.
ElMachoGrande@reddit
I only see one possible problem with it, and that's not being able to play some of the games their friends play.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Dude: gaming is all they do most days! You're right, Linux may not interest them there. I'm kinda hoping they might take it on as a hobby.
Like they can have the wifi password if they pass my hacking challenge. Then playstation until bed.
ElMachoGrande@reddit
If they have a Playstation, perhaps it doesn't matter if the computer can't run their game. Hell, with Linux, you don't even need a computer with enough oompf to run games.
Anakhsunamon@reddit
I was raised with linux as our home main OS, at a young age it learned me to use commands and when i was 16 i was turned into a full blown hacker. I used my skills to lock up the entire school network making every pc in the building unusable, causing many children to go home early, making me a legend.
LockedInVim@reddit
I think it's a good idea and I know you said that they're open to use whatever they want and you're not wanting to lock them into only linux but I think it might be better to teach windows alongside linux. If using computers in school or a job after school majority of the time it will be windows so some familiarity with windows is ideal as well. I don't know how education wise it works where you live but where I live we typically start narrowing down the path of subjects kids take in school at 14/15 to suit their chosen career path so it could also be a good idea to see if they want to go into IT and then teach them.
whatstefansees@reddit
My daughter uses Linux since age 6 and had three months of Windows around age 10 or so. She then came back to Mix and is happy ever since.
Today at age 22 she has Ubuntu on a Mac Book. She likes the look and feel of that laptop, she just doesn't like the apple OS, so she put Linux on.
bO8x@reddit
Install privoxy as a supplemental ad blocker.
What are your thoughts on content monitoring? Personally, if I had children, as opposed to blocking I would like to observe their content via network monitor and then explain anything I noticed to be too advanced for their age...I'm not sure if that is a lofty aspiration. I grew up with "content blocking" which only instilled a sense of mistrust and resentment.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
I've got a DNS sinkhole that blocks most ads. With that I can also monitor and block but I choose not to get too involved with that.
If you monitor and limit too much children will either find a way to do it behind your back, develop insecurity or at best will be altogether unaffected. I strongly agree with explaining inappropriate content with my kids, and taking action when it is detrimental to them.
Blocking pornography won't hurt, but making it taboo could bring insecurity and obsession into their future sex lives. They will find a way if they want to. I did. We're getting into controversial territory here, but for my home, having age appropriate discussions and limiting as much of the truly heinous stuff as possible is a responsibility as a parent.
Soul-Circuitry@reddit
You're overthinking it a bit, in all honesty.
Both my daughters (18 and 19) grew up with Windows, Linux, and MacOS. They can use all 3 systems for their basic needs like browsing, word processors, etc, but aside from gaming, they've never had any real interest in technology, so Windows was always just the primary OS.
The only thing to realise/remember is that .. If they're not interested, then forcing them to use a system that is still limited compared to Windows, will only be a hindrance for them. And this isn't about you, or your opinion about proprietary software. It's about them, and what they need to use them for. You also kind of have to remember that they're more likely to end up interacting with Windows (or even MacOS), than they are Linux out in the wild.
tinverse@reddit
I know the people here tend to be fans of Linux, but the reality is a computer is a tool and whichever tool gets the job done is the best tool for the job. For example if your kid wants to play one of those kids that installs a rootkit for anticheat to play games with a friend, the game isn't going to work on Linux. If one of your kids wants to get into music production, that will be a nightmare on Linux. Linux is just a bad tool to them at that point.
I'm not saying it will be useless or amazing, I just want to add a little bit of nuance to the discussion.
warpflyght@reddit
Agreed. I think this nuance is valuable. My nephew isn't fully satisfied with Ubuntu because it can't run the Windows games his friends are playing. His computer could, in some ways, be a better tool for him if it was running Windows.
When I was younger I was pretty Manichean about technology choices. Windows bad, Linux good. As I've grown older, I've learned to appreciate the positives and the negatives of each piece of technology rather than painting with a broad brush. Windows has some problems but also some really strong features (and it's even become a viable Unix development platform thanks to WSL2 and the rather awesome Windows Terminal). There are people for whom it is the right tool.
I want to teach my niece and nephew that there are a lot of interesting options available to them, and I hope setting them up with Linux at the start will help them be aware that you aren't just stuck with whatever default software everybody else uses. In a few years, if they decide Windows is their future, I'll happily help them install and configure it. But I hope they will be able to articulate their reasons for choosing it, and that they'll know what the other major options are.
Eldhrimer@reddit
My dad is a programmer and he always had Linux on the family machine growing up. He explicitly didn't want to have Windows.
Being the eldest I suffered a bit because couldn't play games with friends, and didn't have Encarta to make my homework (yeah, that era).
That said I played a lot with the computer. The games of my childhood were Warzone 2100, Super Tux Kart, Super Tux Racer, Pingus, Battle for Wesnoth , gcompris, Neverball, OpenArena, GTron, TORCS, BZFlag, FooBillard, and emulated games (monkey island ftw)
I remember following a guide when I was like 14 on how to compile Marathon from the sources of macOS X in order to play with a friend.
When I finally got my laptop I installed windows and played the shit out of skyrim. I kept windows for about two years until I realised how awful windows was and how limited i felt so I ended up going back to Linux.
Now in my household there are no windows machines.
I believe your kids will have a better time, and won't miss as much. Game compatibility is basically figured out apart from the odd bug or anticheat, and most other common computing they do outside of gaming will be inside the browser.
If you want them to learn to be resourceful, let them figure their problems on their own. That game is not working? Chek protondb and check if someone has the same problem. No one has this problem? Let's see if we can submit an issue on their tracker, these commands will be useful to produce the appropriate logs.
Stuff like that. Don't solve it for them, but help them do it themselves.
Teach them how to use keywords when searching Google. Hell, even better teach them how to use chatgpt, it will more likely be their future.
I can't tell you how satisfying was getting a game running in wine back in the day, all on your own, after your dad had already given up and told to play other game.
Oh, and let them screw up. Nothing like waking up my dad on a Sunday morning to tell them I accidentally erased the bootloader when trying to delete other stuff. That will teach them the value of backups.
hikooh@reddit
No personal experience but I imagine what I would do is guide them on how to search for solutions to what they want to accomplish. Like if they want to install a game, talk about how to identify their graphics card, configure drivers, update the kernel, distro hop to something that might work better, etc.
Maybe even help them configure a Windows VM so they can have some familiarity with that OS too. Discuss some basic differences between Windows, ChromeOS, macOS, and Linux, and your thought process on how you choose which one to use for a given purpose.
Another fun activity might be booting into different DEās so they can see that theyāre able to make their system look and feel exactly how they like.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
All good ideas! Thanks. I like the idea of them being able to play with different DE's, they like to customize.
LoafyLemon@reddit
My advice? Have them install arch from scratch as a fun activity. š
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Perhaps we should go all in with Gentoo?
LoafyLemon@reddit
I'm pretty sure that'd be child abuse
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Yeah you're right. I wouldn't subject myself to such torture. What kind of sociopath...
Kilobytez95@reddit
Imo it's a good idea. One day Linux will be the desktop platform of choice for everybody. They might as well get used to it because even windows one day will be Linux under the hood. I promise you that.
RandomXUsr@reddit
If you're able; have them set up a dual boot with windows and linux.
Depending on how interested they are, maybe teach them how to configure the Firmware, and explain how the computers work from the bottom up.
If you're looking to teach them comptency, then install Arch and Windows together and hell try to break them and have the kids fix it.
Are you looking for a friendlier approach; then install Ubuntu or EndlessOS alongside Windows or in a VM.
To your question about making it enjoyable, that really depends on the kids. Maybe install scratch and have them try to understand how programming works. Teach them the basics of Bash, and powershell, or python.
And by all means install some games for them to use. I include Windows in this endeavour as I strongly feel it's important for kids to understand what they like and give them options.
If you are able to incorporate their natural interests into the computer learning process, you're likely to experience them have a fulfilling experience.
sonoma95436@reddit
I hate to say it but putting in a dual boot system defeats the edu purpose. I'd wait until they ask for it before tossing it in and making it a lesson so you don't have to work at maintenance on their "game machine". Just saying.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the detailed ideas! Competency is definitely what I'm looking for. I've used Linux for 25 years and, at this point, don't get around well on Wondows anymore. I'm hesitant to install Windows right away because I feel like they'd take preference to it too quickly because of the gaming that is possible on Windows over Linux.
Your points, though, do make me think I should support whatever direction they take for themselves and resist the temptation to form a mold and expect them to happily fit in it.
Much appreciated.
vinegary@reddit
Or, by keeping it away, it becomes this gamable super system that only their friends have which seems more powerful and they canāt wait to get their hands on. Since itās now exclusive
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
You're completely right. That's how it would go down, too. I'll just have to explain to them all the differences and encourage them to learn both.
spiceminesgaming@reddit
I gave my 10-year-old son an older Dell Latitude with Linux Mint and installed some games he would enjoy. I have Minetest, Super Tuxkart, Super Tux, and a few educational games installed for him. He really loves Minetest and has figured out how to install mods on his own. He even has expressed interest in learning the Lua programming language so he can create his own mods. So, for my son, he is learning Linux by simply using the computer to do something he enjoys. When he's done playing a game, he usually pokes around and discovers something new.
felixg3@reddit
I grew up with Suse Linux on our family computer. There was a windows 98 partition and Linux. I enjoyed using Linux more and I spend a lot of time reading the many books of documentation that came along with it. I think letting your kids play educational games on it will make it worthwhile. Try KDE education (thatās an amazing project) or GCompris
sonoma95436@reddit
That's good parenting as it keeps you in the loop and gives them useful experience.
dvbondoy@reddit
All my kids use linux. I introduced them to Scratch to to scratch their curiosity. I even made them an ubuntu respin for their old laptops. Might someone help here, sourceforge.net/flickos
vinneh@reddit
I think steamos gives a great opportunity at the moment.
xidral@reddit
I had my sister's learn to use computers with Linux. They were 8 and 13, they both got the hang of it quickly.
RoyalBoot1388@reddit
First, my kids only have Linux boxes. They don't do much if anything on the CLI, but they're responsible for their own updates ( i run ansible scripts to check up on them). I then pay them to "help" me maintain some of my ubuntu servers (patches and such), or build a new raspberry-pi if I need one for a project. I had one of them build a minecraft server for the family, so for awhile, we were all gaming together on it.
Lastly, I just resorted to flat out bribes....I told them I would pay them $75 if they got the lowest level LPI certification (Linux Essentials I think). None of my kids have been terribly interested, but they've all built at least 1 PC and loaded Ubuntu/Rasbian, so not a total loss.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
Man, that's cool. I think you got it perfectly under control. Thanks for the ansible tip, I'm going to save that idea.
The Minecraft server idea is gold!
ThreeChonkyCats@reddit
I've been thinking about, and working on, an education program for schools, years 6 to 10 (Aussie here).
Linux, Python... how to install, have a bit of fun, etc, with a serious side on the "how computers work" without esoteric BS. Useful skills. Tools and skills to solve real problems in real scenarios.
NOT toys like Windows or Mac, but real computers.
I'd be keen to hear if there are any educators who have found excellent planning guides, tools or resources.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
That's a really cool idea. It reminds me of LAN parties back when I was a teen, before broadband allowed everyone to play multiplayer at home without so much lag. It was a bunch of young teens gathered around a mess of computers brought from home, learning about networking and administration in an attempt to get everyone in the game.
kernelskewed@reddit
I still remember the NAT box running Linux that my dad had set up in our attic so we could share a dialup connection. I probably owe my career (sysadmin/systems engineer) to that system and the Linux distributions he introduced me to. I still had Windows machines in the house growing up, but the experience with Linux at a young age made a difference.
My daughter is still too young for a computer, but Iām absolutely planning to introduce her to Linux first. Sheāll probably need to use Windows at some point, but I think sheāll be able to understand the concepts behind the OS and the stresses sheās using better if she starts with Linux.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
That's awesome! It's cool you had a NAT to divvy up a dialup connection back in the day. We never did that -- one person at a time wasn't much fun.
I think you're right that introducing Linux first to really understand what defines an operating system, and how it works on a higher level, is a great way to segue into Windows or Mac. I cut my teeth on MacOS 7 and Windows 95/98/XP and never really understood the inner workings of an OS until I spent a lot of time with Linux.
recaffeinated@reddit
My brother and sister have had Rasberry PIs since they were little, and an Ubuntu laptop for nearly as long.
LPHandy@reddit (OP)
That's cool! I'd start them on RPi if they were more available. Thanks for your reply.