Have you thought about muting/archiving it? So as to not “publicly” leave and cause anything?
Although looking at your long message, you don’t mind doing things publicly.
Perhaps OP hasn’t been in the working, professional world for long. The toxic group chat and toxic manager should not be met with the same attitude.
As a manager myself, and sometimes not a particularly good one, I’d appreciate my team coming to me individually to coach me, instead of outing me publicly. Fighting fire with fire rarely extinguishes anything.
Haven’t had this experience before, but I’d have just ignored his message and make him look like a massive wanker talking to himself in the WhatsApp group. Couldn’t be dealing with a c*** of a manager like that either. 0 people skills. Tosser.
> I can't blame someone for snapping and giving them a taste of their own medicine
As a first resort this is a childish “he hit me first” attitude and I expect most people with that attitude would also be shitty managers if they ever become one.
Too sensitive. They are all mistakes and no one was named. Beside, who tf cares what their coworkers think of their cleaning?
OP overreacted because they have personal problems, but they are 100% wrong to blow up
As soon as OP snapped he doesn’t have a leg to stand on though. Imagine if he just stayed silent and talked to his manager instead? This post wouldn’t exist and his manager would likely respect him more.
Management cannot expect to be approached individually and reasonably when this is the why they are attempting to approach issues with their staff. It's not about fighting fire with fire, management are supposed to know better - managing their staff is literally their job. If somebody in management needs their staff to come to them about things like this then honestly they are not qualified for their role to begin with.
It is not for an employee to manage their own manager. I also very much doubt someone who likes to rule their team with fear of public shaming has much consideration to constructive feedback.
I disagree here entirely. It's wildly inappropriate to publicly shame people in a group chat like this. The response is basically a fuck you to the manager without saying it as the manager can't say a single thing back.
I would genuinely put in a greivence about that manager and her group chat conduct. An inappropriate public shaming should be met with warts and all reply. Fuck around and find out comes to mind.
"Publicly shamed". Christ. It's a slightly over-the-top note about an unclean surface. Nobody is even named.
How do you people function in the real world?
It's really not. You don't know what's going on in people's lives (as the response showed). I worked in retail for years, and it's a bloody tough job that you often get no thanks for. In any work environment, but especially retail, this kind of conduct is wildly inappropriate, especially in full view of your colleagues.
It's unpleasant, yes. But just ignore it or apologise and get on with your work. It's not that difficult.
It's odd to publicly acknowledge your poor performance like that, with a personal and sensitive excuse.
I've a feeling OP would have responded in the same way to a private email from the manager.
Nah, don’t speak for what you “feel” I would’ve said in private.
If she’d respected me enough to speak to me privately, I would’ve apologised and acknowledged the poor close I did and explained, in a calmer way, why I rushed and what was going on.
Have your opinion on how I handled it, by all means, but don’t presume to say what I “would” have done if the manager had gone about things properly.
Fair enough.
In any case, your emotional outburst was unprofessional and is just you making excuses for poor performance.
Also, you weren't even named or asked to out yourself. You weren't accused directly. Your manager has a temper, but it's not unusual to use an anonymous example of poor performance to encourage the team to think a bit more about how they all work.
You have to learn to deal with annoying managers. That's just life.
Weird that your hard on for professionalism stops at the lowest rung, but when it comes to shit managers being unprofessional, everyone has to suck it up.
People have off days and, god forbid, might open the syrup or leave a drop of coffee on the surface. That’s just life.
Your manager may well be difficult, but you are also failing to keep personal issues separate from your professional responsibilities. A manager is not a friend, they are there to ensure the work is done. You were paid to deliver, and your personal life affected your performance. In that respect, you are both contributing to the situation.
They acknowledged several instances in a single day where they did not follow instructions. Rather than taking responsibility, they attributed those lapses to personal circumstances and are now looking for reassurance online. When the same pattern appears regardless of the workplace or manager, it is reasonable to question whether the common factor might be them.
And when it’s the same pattern with every individual in the team, not just me? There are posts like this several times a week over the smallest detail.
My personal issues are not the reason for this post, my manager being a shitty person is.
I took responsibility for the failings. I didn’t *excuse* them, I *explained* them, there is a difference.
No it’s not whatsapp or email can misconstrue tone. Includes everyone who doesn’t need to know and people who are off work don’t need their day interrupted by negativity, No one needs to know about this unless it was the person who didn’t close properly. I work in hospitality and we have a group chat. As the general manager I can’t remember the last time I posted in it. It’s not a recognised means of communication I’m in the group to monitor but don’t communicate anything meaningful in there
The manager is simply highlighting shameful behaviour.
Cause a public nuisance? get called out public.
Don’t like it? Don’t leave crap for colleagues to fix. Or better, leave. A lot of places are better off without that person who circumvents standard procedures.
Behaviours like this causes quick deterioration in standards, especially in food service business. Person A didn’t clean up their shift yesterday so why should I? Person C didn’t clean a machine, if I do it it’s a lot harder so I’ll leave it for someone else. Calling out such behaviour in a group is a quick way to make sure everyone sees the dos and don’t quickly.
People who cause problems don’t get the luxury of deciding how the problems get dealt with.
It’s called ‘consequences’.
Your feelings aren’t the most important factor at play. Health and safety for colleagues and customers trumps that.
I empathise with the colleague who workload just shot through the roof because someone else didn’t do what they were paid to do. Can you imagine the frustration of trying to start your shift and what you need to use if missing or dirty? What about their ‘feelings’?
Literally check-listing pre-close tasks and allocating them fairly between team members can solve these issues instantaneously.
Oh yeah. I’ve run teams for years and directly employ people. Employees actually like clarity of standards in the long run as long as the initial training and expectations are in place. Good luck with the ‘every you’ve said is so wrong’ attitude. See how far that takes you in the real world ;).
As if you employ people? You must be a shitty employer. Your posts suggest the mindset of someone who will never really move up in the world cos they're too busy being subservient. Someone who builds things doesn't have your mindset. Maybe you got promoted to some middle management position but you're fronting like you're a director cos you sit in interviews and scan CVs sometimes
If calling people out for sloppy conduct makes someone a shitty employer then so be it.
Many people are grateful to have access to stable employment because standards are kept. Seriously, just trying growing a hospitality business without enforcing standard practices. In fact, trying growing any business without standardising something. Good luck!
OP could have accepted responsibility and taken it on the chin, even if it seems unfair, learnt by it and used it to grow stronger but it seems they value pity over progress.
I opened a bottle of syrup a week before campaign started and daydotted the syrup for 4 weeks (as per the SOP). The syrup is within date, and will be next week when the campaign starts. No health and safety concerns there.
I left a water mark on the sink from rinsing out the coffee group handles before i left. I’ve never met a H&S inspector THAT harsh theyd mark you down for a bit of water on a counter next to a sink.
But yeah, her workload is MASSIVE because of my actions 🙄
Oh I see. How would the manager have known you were the specific person to go to talk to about the non-issue? It might have been caused by someone else working on your shift.
In the future, do they need to play the detective game first when they come across other ‘non-issues’? Do they need to worry about the mental health of someone before calling them out for sloppiness?
What if other shift members don’t know who’s responsible or doesn’t want to dob you in?
I’m sorry to be the one to let you in on this but for certain businesses, standards are not only key requirements to stay in business but they are non-negotiable with staff. It’s like this because there is a serious amount of money on the line.
I was the shift leader for the close last night, so even if it was someone else who missed the job, it was my responsibility to check it.
And nope, no detective work necessary. My issue isn’t being called out for stuff, it’s for doing it in a forum that the entire staff can see. It’s using humiliation as a management technique.
Yes, these standards are non-negotiable and I didn’t meet them. I deserved to be called out for it. My reasons weren’t an excuse, they were an explanations.
Regardless, a group chat is not the place to do it. Pull me into a meeting, give me a warning, fucking fire me if need be. But don’t try and humiliate me by calling out my shit work in front of every single person I work with.
You can tell who in this comment section has worked in hospitality and who hasn’t.
I promise nobody who has ever worked in a coffee shop has ever talked about the ‘professionalism’ of coffee syrup opening and missing a drop on the counter. The manager would have taken less time to wipe it than post that message.
In fairness it's also wildly inappropriate to shove your relative's personal problems in your boss' face publicly. I think OP is probably soft quitting with that response.
No, no. They’re right. It was a “you wanna do this publicly, let’s fucking go for it”.
I’m not an oversharer usually. Hence none of my co-workers knowing about this situation in the first place until this message.. but this is the 4th time since the start January she’s posted stuff like this in the group chat.
And fwiw, she deleted my message from the group chat and said nothing else since, either directly to me or in the chat, so clearly it hit the nerve I wanted it to.
I’d have done exactly as you did with the message - and have in the past. Shames them into realising they’ve been an idiot or at the very least causes them a bit of embarrassment.
Personally I’d leave the group too. As for your question, they can sack you without reason in the first two years (only if you’ve been discriminated against due to race, religion etc. have you got any rights). If you’ve been there over two years they’d struggle to prove you needed to be in the group to perform your job but that’s more for the LegalUK sub.
Nice work, my friend. Ignore the clown above. I was an Asda store manager for years, trained other managers, and dealt with loads of conduct issues. Let me tell you that your manager is an embarrassment to her profession, and if i were you, I would take it further. All the best 👍
That's why it was necessary, the manager should have spoken to the closing staff, not wrote passive aggressive messages in the WhatsApp group so you gotta make them feel bad for doing something publicly. Petty, but necessary.
Meh, sometimes life events take presidents over perfect work, that is usually inconsequential.
Any of my team need to deal with personal issues I always let them, and don't care about them working back the hours. Our work is important but the missing work of one of the collective for a few hours is nowhere near as important as what they have going on.
And it would be perfectly reasonable to explain to the manager you have to leave early tomorrow night because of whatever family situation.
You don't just leave the work unfinished then snap when it's pointed out.
Hardly snapping when it’s pointed out - more making sure that the idiot manager feels awkward for having tried to publicly shame their workers rather than effectively managing them personally. It’s one of the only options open to someone in this position and frankly it was done well. Maybe the manager will think twice about being such a prick in future.
Those things really don't matter if it isn't the usual. Just help a fellow human out and only bother mentioning it if they are regularly socially loathing.
Of course they were giving an excuse. "I rushed and didn't do my job properly because I've got to drive tomorrow morning" is an excuse. OP could've easily prepared and told the manager in advance they need to leave early.
Wild take. Not everyone’s a capitalist slave. Some people value their family more than their job. What is ‘correct’ usually goes out the window with such family pressures and dependency. All well and good saying ‘oh well they should have done this’ but probably not the most important thing to OP at that moment. Maybe try and be a bit more human?
Like at some point even if a family member died you’d need to let work know.
Or does that make you a “capitalist slave” too? Reminds me of the “go no contact” trope lmao.
I don’t think explaining that you’ve left work earlier due to an appointment or some personal circumstance (you don’t have to talk about rehab) means you live to work.
I think there are very few circumstances where you couldn’t let your colleague know it’s a bit of a tip because I had to leave early.
I think their reply was a combination of pent up emotion and frustration? Also OP never said they had to leave early, they were probably just closing down quickly… you don’t have to tell your manager in advance if you’re closing? You just leave
Both the manager and OP are unprofessional (I’d argue OP moreso)
I’d definitely let my colleague on the morning shift know if the cleaning wasn’t going to be up to standard for whatever reason.
Don’t think that means I live to work just consideration for a colleague who will have to pick up my slack.
All round 0/10 comms for this team it seems.
I think their reply was a combination of pent up emotion and frustration? Also OP never said they had to leave early, they were probably just closing down quickly… you don’t have to tell your manager in advance if your closing? You just leave
I think the reply was as a result of emotion and frustration? Also OP never said they had to leave early, they were probably just closing down quickly… you don’t have to tell your manager in advance if your closing? You just leave
Well yeah I agree some things are more important than work.
But you can't do a shit job at work without explanation and then complain when you get dug up for it. You can't have it both ways.
Being dug out for my shit work is not my issue. My issue is it being called out publicly.
And this is not the only example of her doing this, and I’m by no means claiming she only does it to me. She acts like this with ALL her staff. This is just one example that is aimed at me.
You clearly lack comprehension skills.
There's a difference between a *reason* and an excuse.
OP took full responsibility and took it on the chin. They accepted that they were in the wrong. They accepted they weren't up to standard. Then they provided a reason why that particular shift was affected.
An excuse is given to justify or to lessen responsibility. A reason is given to explain how something came to be. Considering that OP took the blame and wasn't trying to minimise what they did (or didn't do), it's very obviously the latter.
The difference between an excuse and explanation is ownership and responsibility. OP apologised and took responsibility. Within that was the explanation of why it was a shit close.
That is not an excuse.
If it isn't a work phone/paid for by the company and it is not in your contract, you are not obliged to be part of that group chat. That's not to say that you won't be sidelined if you do leave the group.
This is my opinion, I'd be looking for somewhere else to work. It's likely behaviour is normal for management here and is unlikely to stop.
What OP could do is just permanently mute notifications from the group. I've done this to a number of groups that are too "noisy" in the past where it might have seemed indelicate for me to simply leave.
I wouldn't have joined in the first place. My phone number is private, I'm not sharing it with folk just because I work with them. I'll choose which ones have it, if any at all.
If they provided me a phone, it'd be switched off as soon as it's finish time and it wouldn't be powered back on until start time.
>My phone number is private, I'm not sharing it with folk just because I work with them. I'll choose which ones have it, if any at all.
My thoughts exactly. My company wanted me to add my work Gmail account to my phone! As soon as notifications about changing security settings appeared, I stopped the process and told my manager he'd need to approve a work mobile for me if I was expected to check work emails whilst out of the office, and that I'd need an on-call/overtime shift allowance added to my salary to cover such activity. He decided I didn't need to access work emails outside of work after all. 😄
I don't work in retail, but if I did, I would mute or archive that group chat and change my privacy settings so my colleagues don't see when I'm online and what my last seen online time is.
If needed, I will bring a brick phone to work to show I'm not into these futuristic tech gadgets /s
Just leave it.
If work needs to contact you, calling and texting works.
I dont know *why* it became the norm to feel obligated to join group chats on personal devices.
A group chat on a work device, used at work, *for work* fine. That is *normal*.
Petty shit being called out unprofessionally and things devolving into gossipy backstabbing? Thats just drama and unnecessary.
Have a group chat with *friends*, not coworkers.
Sorry about the situation with your family.
I've been working in hospitality for 12+ years and I agree that work and life balance is one of the biggest drawbacks of the business.
A few things to point out:
- always mute your work group chat: make sure it's not the first thing you read in the morning. You're not at work when you're home ( unless you're GM/OP'S+ and it doesn't necessarily have to apply). You don't want to set yourself in a bad mood right from the start of the day.
- never post personal stuff on the group chat- there's 0 benefit. People will gossip about it. It will either make you a laughingstock or damage your relationship with your GM.
-Personal issues : talk about them face to face with your manager, if they don't understand - there's HR or unfortunately just leave , however make sure you have another job up when doing it.
- I agree that posting pictures like this with unnecessary comments is bad behavior coming from your GM who probably never closes. It doesn't make a difference though, you cannot change your boss you can only change your jobs. This sort of behavior is extremely common in hospitality unfortunately and is usually an indicator that the person in charge lacks overall skills and/or is frustrated with their job ,but I digress.
I agree. But what we can't really fathom, is that the younger generation now really doesn't give 2 shits what we consider the 'real world' they are working on their own terms and it will end up being the real world the more of them that end up in the labor market.
Of course you can leave it. If I were you I wouldn’t have explained your personal situation whilst you’re angry as it makes it look like you’ve weaponised it to get the upper hand and therefore undermines what you are saying. I also wouldn’t have sent a message with swearing to my manager. I think leaving the group is less of an issue than either of these things.
Bit cringe with the overstaring personal stuff about your aunt going to rehab and your mother's alcholism etc. They dont gaf about that and nor should they. Take your time with the close and do things properly and dont give them anything to criticize you about. You are there to do a job and do it properly. If you dont like it quit, management dont have to change their ways for you nor will they.
If OP has a decent manager which they clearly don’t they would have wrote that message 1000 times better but unfortunately this manager is poor. Peope make mistakes and mess up , perhaps OP wanted to finish on time and couldn’t be late off , and rightly put family first . Your just a number at work remember that . You are replaced the next day, but to family your irreplaceable
Well the thing is managers exist for a reason, and they're assholes generally for a reason. There will always be workers who will see how much they can get away with because they realise that corporations don't reward excellent behaviour with bonuses and will still pay them the same for bare minimal.
Here's the thing, they don't give a shit, none of it's personal. They don't care for a reason, they're there to just justify their job by showing they're enforcing "rules" by complaining.
OP, u/The-Yellow-Badger read the book "Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes are High"
This. Everyone has shit going on and your shit is not more important than anyone else's. The only difference is you let your shit effect your job when it shouldn't. I do however fucking hate work group chats and will be telling any future employers I dont use WhatsApp and the can contact me directly by message if it is urgent.
IMO work whatsapp are unprofessionnal and unsecure. Nice addition of the "I'll speak to you tomorrow." Very ominous, give them a taste of their own medicine.
If a person does what they are supposed to do at their job with some pride, they would not have to endure any of this. If you are ever in a superior role like this, you will know what it feels like. I suggest just growing up and doing your job properly.
I’m in one on my work phone. Once I hit 4pm I don’t touch it until the morning. Granted it’s a bunch of boring engineers but still. When i finish I forget about the place until im back in.
Absolutely. If work wants to contact me *during working hours* then the company will need to give me a phone. Outside of my shift, said phone would be switched off.
I mostly agree. Personally I just mute it outside of work hours. It’s handy sometimes during work hours. Or just before work starts so we know if people are running late etc. but zero messages after the working day has been done needs to be read before the morning of the next shift.
Anything work related shared through a device should be shared through a works device due to safety protocols. Work should provide a works phone / tablet if they want to communicate about work related stuff.
I get the sentiment but thats a bit general dont you think?
In reality, different work places function differently and could be fine with a group chat on personal devices.
My work does and it's fine because we're a small company, no one is a dick and no one expects or encourages unhealthy work practices.
Yeah. I always maintain not being contacted outside of work outside of my email, or unless its urgent, through a text. I hate the idea of blurring work and personal lines
I have one with my team and I am very careful to never talk work in that chat. It is for communicating setbacks like cancelled trains, wishing people happy birthday, the occasional light hearted joke and nothing else
I’ve had work group chats and they’re great if used well. We’d have no managers trying to discipline through it and instead we’d use it for shift swaps, arranging going to the pub, and if there was any info that people would need for their next shift that they may not have seen (back from annual leave etc).
I’ve always put my foot down when it comes to how and when work can contact me. I’ve made it clear that my personal phone is not a tool for them to use and if they need to speak to me then they organise themselves properly and speak to me when I’m at work. I’ve never answered a call or text from work when I’m not working. My employer has tried several times to contact me but I’ve not answered them once. I was pressed about it by my boss but I was quick to point out that it’s my phone which I pay for myself. If they want to provide me with a work phone then that’s fine but I told them that if they call me outside of my contracted hours then I’ll be clocking in every time that phone rings.
This gives me legit anxiety. Never ever give your number for a group chat. The point in filling contact forms out when you start working somewhere is so that HR / a manager can have access to your number should they need to contact you in an emergency/ you don’t show up to shift and they’re like wtf. Leave the group chat and I’d also me considering leaving a place of work that thinks it’s genuinely acceptable to speak to others like this and cause them anxiety 24/7 when you’re not on shift/ days off. I used to be in one when I was in my early 20s and I lived and dragged my mental health around the ringer with it too long so this is me with genuine urge for you to get out, now!
I assume you work in hospitality? The concerns raised in the screenshots are valid and this kind of shit can get you in trouble if you’re inspected. Every single hospitality job I’ve had had similar groups and they were mostly very useful and I would say borderline necessary.
And every decent hospitality job I’ve had indeed took stuff like cleaning procedures seriously.
You’re here worried they’re out to get you but they might just be using the group not to “shame people publicly” (I’m not seeing names) but to let everyone know at once the (in my opinion reasonable) standard they expect from employees.
If you prefer face to face conversations you should raise that with your manager but I wouldn’t just abruptly leave the group chat, you can just mute it if it really bothers you. Or I would just do my job properly so that this kind of messages don’t have to be sent.
To be honest, it reads like this isnt the first time these sort of closes have happened and theyre just fed up with it. I work in hospitality, and its an absolute nightmare sometimes to get people to just take responsibility. Its even worse if a manager or supervisor lacks it because the people theyre in charge of just follow that example.
The OPs excuse could have also been done privately, but here we are.
Literally, as the owners of the business they care more because they will get shut down so they seem a bit anal but this is what they’ve invested A LOT of money, time and effort into. Of course there are better ways to go about it but that’s the principle.
I’m also a bit taken aback by OP’s message about his aunts struggles with addiction? Like how does your employer got anything to do with it and why are you expecting them to have to accomodate this. Bizarre
Seems like everyone involved here is shitty, not just the manager. Imagine working with someone like OP who will just unload a massive screed at the tiniest slight, must be constant drama like you're back in the playground.
The sharing of personal data (name and phone number) in a group chat they never consented to being in.
I thought the gdpr requires the company to inform you why your data is shared. If you weren’t told beforehand, that could be a breach?
Under Article 47-B of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), it is strictly prohibited to share any form of "mess," defined as any disorganized, chaotic, or cluttered state of personal or professional belongings, without obtaining explicit consent from all individuals involved.
/s
I just looked at your post history and saw how you treated someone asking if you could cover their shit. Honestly you need to work on yourself a bit think there’s a lot going on there.
The message in here to a manager that albeit was being a cunt is totally over the top in my opinion. The way you spoke to someone asking if you’d swap a shift was downright not on. The fact you posting that on Reddit makes me think you have major main character syndrome.
You need to chill out a bit.
Ah yes, the girl it turned out WAS lying, got the shift covered, went out on the piss, didn’t show up for work the next day and got fired for all that.
Yes. It’s me in the wrong. My bad.
You are a massive hypocrite, just checked that post they mentioned
Direct quote 'what's this societal pressure to be civil'
Regardless whether you have history with them it's unprofessional as f*** and weird
And then you get angry at them for the above? lol
Depends how much you're being paid to be on call, and whether you're getting a flat / daily rate to do work related activities (IE, communications) at home, or each instance of checking the WhatsApp counts as an individual work task that you're paid for.
Actually lol even if those were the case, you'd still need regular ample time off (enough to make sure your salary doesn't go below minimum wage when including the time you're expected to read messages), they'd need to provide the phone, tasks would need to be in the contract, and you'd still have a right to a psychologically safe working environment.
If you aren't being paid, you don't have to download or look at anything. If it's your personal phone, ditto, they can't make you save any numbers let alone join group chats.
What they are doing is illegal.
The bad news?
Shitty employers have been the same forever. Just because it's illegal, doesn't mean they can't actually do it. You could calmly and politely tell them that you don't wish to participate in the group chat for free on your own time any more, as is your local right, and they could coincidentally choose that very day to assess you by some new secret standards and fire you. It's not exactly kosher, but there's nothing anyone can do about it, really.
Can you suddenly get really bad reception at home, so it seems like the group is on mute?
Can you develop a habit of replying to everything with a load of emojis or 'Click Here for your GUARANTEED chance to win a free toaster oven!' link spam, hoping you get asked to leave? Can you invent an elderly aunt who suddenly needs to share your phone and who keeps replying THIS ISN'T VERY KIND JEREMY I WILL BE THERE ON TUESDAY , or something similarly annoying that doesn't prevent you being doing your job but that does mean they might agree to not contact you outside work unless it's an emergency?
You have a shit manager but you don't deal with it like this unless you don't particularly care about having a job, it's totally unprofessional to call out your manager and talk about serious personal issues in front of colleagues regardless of what is going on. Of course deal with the manager directly but don't be making excuses, if you're supposed to close to a certain standard, own it, apologise and then do better.
Or find another job if it's that bad but I wouldn't take that attitude with you.
Costa by any chance? But yeah, personally I fully embraced "quiet quitting", you get my attention exactly for the hours I'm contracted and nothing else. I usually work minimum wage, so you get minimum effort.
Just wanted to say this was incredibly satisfying to read. Can’t believe there are genuinely boot lockers in these replies saying youre out of line. This is shitty leadership behaviour and terrible people management skills. You aren’t a child, it is leaderships’ job to communicate with you directly, don’t get that twisted.
That said, if theyre acting like this now they probably won’t change. I’d recommend finding somewhere else to work (and joining a union when you can)
My daughters ex boss did exactly the same after she worked her arse off from open to close. Basically ran the business for him while he came in now and then. The last time he did it was over the toilet roll not being changed when she closed up. Spoke to her like shit about it as well so she walked out. Which caused a ripple effect because then others did as well. That said if you're supervisor and there's a definite reason you have to be in that chat, then I would just mute it and check it now and then, otherwise just leave it and say you have no use for WhatsApp anymore and anything work related can be related during work hours.
My new job called me constantly on my days off with questions. Mind you, they gave me a work phone but when they realised it was off when not working, they'd try my personal. So I blocked everyone on that phone and if questioned, I'll just say I changed numbers. It's been a year and no one's ever called me up on it.
This sucks. I’ve been on the receiving end of someone who would constantly piss around on close and then leave it up to me to get the shop ready to open. They never got any better after a private bollocking. I wouldn’t do this though.
I think it would have gone a long way for you to leave a handover to the manager explaining quickly that you’re sorry it wasn’t quite up to standard but you have some personal stuff going on at the moment and you’d appreciate a 1-1 as soon as possible, and that next time you’ll be able to do a much better job.
For me acknowledging you’ve made more work for someone and you’re genuinely sorry goes a long way.
Your manager could just be a tyrant. Or they’re at their wits end. Idk. You both could have handled this better. Neither of you should be on an app doing this tho.
Just leave. I'm fairly sure whatsapp recently introduced a thing where you can leave and nobody gets notified.
If you wanna be in the loop, mute it. That way you're ahead of any future drama without needing to read it every day or so.
This was my fear when I began working but they thankfully use another app called Group Me by Microsoft. I think it is also more professional. Perhaps gently float using Group Me with management, also prevents privacy issues like your co-workers all having your number.
It'd be a shame if you "got a new phone" that didn't support WhatsApp...
If they want you to be contacted outside of work, they should provide the means to do so. (and reading / replying to work messages is working - should be paid accordingly!)
No, you don't have to stay in the group chat. The manager needs to be able to manage you while you're at work and being paid. She can't rely on pinging you all sorts of shit while you're off duty.
I'd leave the chat. I think your home life would be much more peaceful as a result.
Id mute it and only look at it during work hours, my work phone is left in my work van at nights and weekends. I actively go out my way to ignore work texts/calls when not working
100%. No WhatsApp is compulsory for work. Doing your job is the only compulsory thing. Fair message you wrote back. I’d leave it now and be done. Not worth your time.
Saw a few messages saying you went in a bit too deep. I disagree, you said exactly what you needed to say, plus it looks like this isn’t the first time the manager or whoever they are has stepped out of line.
And you have no obligation to remain in that chat but do note that you may have put a target on your back with your reply so leaving the group may cause more problems.
I would leave the chat cus I’m reckless, but if I were you I’d stay in the group not reply to anything and look for another job
No but i would also consider the fact that leadership like that aren't going to go out there way to pass anything important on directly. I'd probably just mute it and check it briefly before I left for work so it I was walking into a shit show I'd know.
I would document your feelings via an official channel though. I have worked alongside managers who feel talking to some one in a certain type of way is acceptable until they way is slapped infront of higher ups and suddenly they change their demeanor.
As a manager, my pet hate is other managers with a god complex. If you need to be a class a nob hat, you aren't a good manager.
Not quite the same but my manager(s) went through a time of using fb messenger to ask to switch shifts, overtime etc. I’d just leave them on read and never reply- a totally inappropriate way of communicating with staff. If I’m on a day off you use my work email and I will reply when I’m working or you can phone me and it’s at my discretion whether I answer or leave it to voicemail.
If it was me I’d probably just mute it indefinitely
If the company is a large chain check their policy for messaging, I worked in hospitality and staff were let go over a WhatsApp chat that looked a lot like this. Our company had written guidance on what types of group chats you can have, what can be discussed in them and the appropriate language that should be used.
i work for the same company, as i can see from bits in the pic
i’m a store manager.
no- you do not have to be in the group chat
just ensure any communication you need you are getting (via emails, specifically wed when the main emails land)
you should contact ER or your AM and raise your concerns, you aren’t there to be spoken to like shit and you don’t have to feel that way 🩵
At my last job there were several work group chats all being used for different purposes. After a while I left them all and told people if they wanted to contact me they should email or IM me. It took a while for people to get the hint, but after multiple occasions of them assuming I’d get a message and me explaining again (without apologising) that I’m don’t look at those chats, the message sank in.
Every now and then someone would text me instead of emailing, but I made a habit of not checking my phone while I worked, so they had the same problem. I never felt bad about it at all. Leave the chat.
(For the record, I’m not intentionally an arsehole. When I worked with people in different time zones who found WhatsApp more convenient outside of my normal hours, I obliged. Just wasn’t happy with it being bloody expected).
Ah I know a Costa manager when I see one, I left mine for the same reason and I get all the info I need from my colleges not the gc, she never added me back and it’s the best :)
Just a warning, I think there's a few clues to where you are working. I know having worked their before they have a strict social media policy so may want to delete and re-upload this!
[Im from the UK]
OP, if you work for a high street coffee company, check your procedures because WhatsApp is normally not an authorised type of team communication, and it's usually a type of misconduct and considered breaching GDPR.
(This is based on pure speculation on who i think your company is, so I would go and check all this before you do anything)
TL:DR - Check your company policy and leave the WhatsApp group.
P.S - Your reply was quite fun, but perhaps a little too personal.
Sorry about your aunt, OP. Alcoholism is a hell of a thing.
Just mute it. Leaving it would be too much heartbreak. You could go down the path of "I don't have a phone" but then you're goosed if they see you with one.
There are few things humans hate more than feeling they're screaming into the void. Silence is golden.
If this isn’t WhatsApp Business app then it’s not secure to talk about work on. And if they want to use the business app they have to provide you with a phone or an allowance for you to use your own phone and have it written into your contract.
I shouldn't have thought there would be any way they could force you to be in the group unless your device is provided and paid for by work. If you're in the Union speak to your rep. If you're not in a union speak to ACAS.
Used to have a manager like that at our store.
One night I was on close and we were way behind because delivery was late. I forgot to empty the bins (which should be an open job IMO) and he posted a pissy message in the group chat about it. There was other shit but that was the most annoying.
One deputy manager refuses to be in any work-related WhatsApp groups, even the management one. I tend to mute the work one outside of work.
I used to HATE how the morning staff acted as though the place needs to be sterile as a fucking surgery.
Most of the time the morning staff just wandered around for an hour then walk out mid shift not having to clean a thing all day.
Messages like this would encourage me as a manager, to take the morning staff and put them on closes for a week straight.
Reading this thread and it seems to be a very common issue that morning/opening staff complains about closers not doing enough. I have the same issue. One of our openers keeps leaving messages in the book about things not being done. But it’s low level stuff that we didn’t have time for because we’re rushed off our feet. There’s no reason at all they can’t do it instead.
Especially when I look at the reports and see that we frequently do more sales in the last hour than they do in the first 2-3 hours.
When I was managing a 24hr store, I made sure to bend over backwards for the team. I'd work 18hr shifts if someone was ill, stay after hours if it was busy or they were short staffed, I'd be on the tills and not just out the back doing "admin". Didn't take me long to learn what made each person tick, when something wasn't right, when they needed help.
It got to the point where the overnight staff would apologise as soon as I walked in for not doing x, y or z.
I'd thank them, asked what they needed help with, and get on with supporting them.
It doesn't take much to be a decent manager. It takes even less to be a decent person.
You don't need to be in those groups. You only need to be able to be contacted. They can contact you outside of WhatsApp. WhatsApp being installed on your personal device isn't a requirement for employment. Leave and just tell them to fuck off if they don't like it.
> Criticise in private.
Tbf it doesn’t look like the manager actually blamed anybody individually and it’s often good management to not call out individuals in the first instance and just give a generic “hey guys, don’t do this” to give them the opportunity to sort it out.
If it carries on happening is when you start speaking to individuals and have to escalate things but ideally it’s better for everyone is things never have to escalate.
No, you’re right, they didn’t call me or my barista out individually but by posting it this morning, it takes about 10 seconds to go on the schedules app and see who the closing staff was and know it’s them being called out
It isn't good management to do collective messages for something only one person is doing - you speak them about it individually and give them the chance to sort it out. Collective call outs just piss people off.
No, it literally is.
It gives anybody doing this the opportunity and trust to have their own agency to fix the issue without ever having to feel singled out.
If a manager was to call somebody out individually for this it’s then a big thing.
It’s the language they used though? You don’t have to be a dick to get your point across. Some people just can’t gain authority in any other way but it just rubs your employees up the wrong way
You don't call out publicly you dingus, you chat to then one on one.
Posting public messages like this is more than likely annoying the rest of the team who didn't fuck up and has to waste they're time reading that Brenda opened the syrup again
Hm. This sounds to me like bad management.
It's better for the manager if things never have to escalate and they don't have to speak to individuals, but it's terrible for the team they're supposed to be managing.
There is a very big difference between giving a general "hey guys, just a heads up, could we all please make sure we do xyz" and using the kind of language that the manager used in these messages. A vast chasm of difference.
Does he specifically say it was the night before? Also, he says, Im not happy team. Doesn’t mention a specific person.To me it just looks like he is using the photo as an example and making sure the whole team is aware of his concerns.
The entire team is fully aware my manager is not the type of person to sit on these things. She says things immediately. They were sent at 8am, just as the store was opening, so it was pretty clear they were from this morning. She always addresses the group as “team”.
Tbh, that’s part of the problem, as I say in my original posts there are regular threats of “recorded conversations” and “performance management” but literally no one has ever been pulled into a meeting for either of these things. EVERY complaint she has, gets posted into the group chat, addressed to the “team”.
Vast swathes of comments here are talking about my victim complex, which is not what the post is about. This is ONE example that’s aimed at me. There are many MANY other examples in the same chat aimed at other colleagues.
It seems to be more personality or who’s been there the longest if there’s a gap
A local bar manager got fired after being a terrible manager publicly and her replacement is the next person who the boss gets on / who’s a terrible manager too
Most managers in retail I have had have been like this, especially the ones who are very popular with the more senior management. This kind of attitude seems to get people far unfortunately. My current manager seems to have less of this approach and he is a lot easier to work with.
Yeh I was gonna say, these are typical manager moves. The trick is to give up any pride or passion you had in the work you do and let it roll over you because ultimately your best will never be enough and it’ll piss them in the best way if you just zone out of their bullshit.
The trick is to be as visually unbothered as possible whenever they berate you, they’re bullies and if they get no reaction they won’t keep going. Most of these jobs you really have to fuck up to get fired because they can never be arsed to train new staff in your place.
Just from a couple of messages we do not know that this manager is terrible, sending pics like this in the morning can be valid. I didn't used to when i managed in hospitality, but it can definitely be a valid thing if it's a consistent problem.
https://preview.redd.it/w160jokwk4kg1.jpeg?width=1306&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=014c2998f5d65bb288b251f44ebbea68066d61d6
Does this interaction provide further context for the type of manager she is? Either positively or negatively?
My work has 2, one for all staff and one for staff above a certain level. I’m a part of both. It’s also very toxic at times but also can be funny as hell. The more exclusive chat was locked for a while and only managers could post after an incident of mis-sent messages 🤣
I’m in both too and I talk the same way in both so I rarely get replied to as they know I’ll go scorched earth just for the craic of it lol.
The one good part of being in the manager’s group chat is seeing them bicker or lose it with each other, all thinking the other is terrible when in reality they all are 🤣
This is the kind of stickler who makes the easiest job ever a living hell.
Theyre petty little tyrants and they drive turnover through the roof, costing companies in ways that are hidden but nontheless detrimental.
Yeah, we have a work WhatsApp which thankfully isn't very active than updating on important note to handover to each other or the odd funny meme or something. If anyone wanted to leave it it'd be fine, we have a girl who has a brick phone so she's not part of it and it's not an issue. The WhatsApp group is for convenience, but the place would be poorly managed if you couldn't do your job without a bloody WhatsApp group 🙄
Why lie? Tell the manager you're not being paid extra. Any work related matters will be discussed with me during my working hours. Nothing they can do.
Btw you haven’t got a team I can tell just by these messages you’re a group of people trying to earn a wage being led by someone with poor team/management skills.
My work group chat was similar. I left and told the manager to message me directly when needed, I did it two other times when they re-added me
Apparently other members of staff followed and there's now no group chat and the manager just messages when needed.
Check your employers Social media and IT policy you may find that if it is Whats App personal version and not correctly set up it maybe against company policy and if not covered then possibly on very thin ground...
There are so many reasons why this could breach various laws, regulations and policies.
If company confidential information was shared on there.
People's personal phone numbers shared and so on.
I know some informal whatsapp groups have caused major issues for people and their employers.
As when a disciplinary issue happen via whatsapp groups and it turns out it was basic personal whats app accounts, on people's personal devices and numbers and in some cases ex employees etc. People can lose jobs and companies have to report data breaches
To lazy to type out but here are a few
* **GDPR & Data Protection:** Strict adherence to data minimization and purpose limitation. Personal data must not be misused, and explicit consent is required for client communications.
* **Professional Usage:** WhatsApp should be used for informal, quick updates, such as arranging team outings or reporting absences, rather than formal performance reviews or disciplinary actions.
* **Device Management:** Use of company-provided, dedicated WhatsApp Business accounts is preferred to keep business data separate from personal messages.
* **Content Restrictions:** Prohibition of confidential information sharing and, to prevent breaches, strict control over who can be added to work groups.
* **Documenting Conversations:** Key business decisions made via WhatsApp must be recorded in official company systems to comply with record-keeping requirements.
* **Expectations of Availability:** Employees should not be expected to check messages outside of working hours, respecting the right to disconnect.
No. Just mute it. I tell everyone I mute my groups because I choose not to put all my energy into those areas. I even mute the groups I created 😄 It doesn't have to be angry energy but "this is what I do".
I’m sorry about your aunt, it goes to show you never know what someone is going through so it’s best to be kind.
I can understand your reply was fuelled by emotion but a better response would have been something like, “Hey, it was my fault the close was a mess, let’s talk about this in person rather than on a group chat. I’m also deciding to leave this group as it’s not good for my mental health to receive negative feedback when I’m not in work as it’s something that will consume my free time and it’s not productive.”
I’m sorry to hear about your aunt. Stay strong op, and mute / archive the chat if it’s not in your contract. This is not worth the stress.
Got the same type of toxic manager in my team who does the same type of shit on common team chats (im in a big financial services firm though).
Literally every teammate wants to leave due to this person (toxicity, micromanagement, unclear expectations etc)🙃
I wouldn’t have joined in the first place, joining a workplace based WhatsApp group on my own private device to be bothered outside of work hours by a manger sounds insane to me, if it’s important they can ring or email, if not they can catch me inside the hours I’m contracted to work
I didn’t join, I was added without being asked first. I was annoyed but didn’t see the point in arguing over something so petty, until the toxicity began.
Ah fair enough, if I was in this situation I’d just leave and when asked reply with im contracted to work x amount of hours, outside of these hours are personal time
Not you trauma dumping the work group chat because the manager was mean 😭
You're right to be fucked off but this is just childish and makes you look like a bit of a loon
Apologies for causing confusion, I never said I WASN’T a loon.
My lunacy is not a reason for the manager to be such a twat several times a week in a public (in terms of the wider team) forum.
I'm part of a group WhatsApp and also had a manager that called someone out for not cleaning properly. That someone was me and everyone knew I was on that position that night. I messaged the manager privately to say I didn't appreciate being publically shamed. Other colleagues were the victim of such shaming too. Eventually the manager realised they shouldn't be doing that and stopped but good on your for saying something. Also, mute the group if you're unsure about leaving.
If its not a company phone I don't see how they can force you to do anything at all to do with work on your personal phone. You can even not own a phone if thats what you want, its your business.
If its a company phone then they have more say in what you do on said phone. But they have no right at all to make you do anything on your personal phone.
I worked in hospitality in bars for 6 years and openers are always on their fucking high horse. They normally only do opens as well so don’t even know what it’s like to close down. Normally they’re also lazier. Try your best to ignore them. I have worked in places where the managers were a little more understanding but they are unfortunately rare.
I don't have WhatApp on my personal phone, so would ne easy for me
It is on my work phone but that stays at work.
Just mute it and only look at it during work hours and then respond personally vs in a public showdown
I get you were pissed hence the reply but imo sending it too them privately probably would have better, especially as you shared some pretty private family stuff that shouldn't really be everyones business
Sorry you have to deal with this. I was in a very similar WhatsApp groupchat when I used to work at a KFC- just shows me how many managers/supervisors are on absolute power trips. This one supervisor would constantly throw tantrums in there over every little thing, just rude and awful to everyone and anyone who made a minor mistake. One day, she made a mistake and a different (I think Junior to her) supervisor, called her out on it. She absolutely blew up in the chat about being bullied and treated unprofessionally, the junior supervisor replied pointing out she did it all the time, she got so mad that she left the WhatsApp group and as far as I know, never ended up rejoining.
The very senior manager at the same job would always text me passive aggressively over the smallest things and I would *frequently* have to quote ACAS to remind her she was asking me to work illegal hours. When I said something to disagree with her, she would often straight up block me to end the conversation. I once got so fed up that I texted a colleague my reply to that manager's final text and asked her to show it to the manager since I was blocked.
ngl the manager is shit but so are you bud, at least you owned up to what you did but still, from the managers perspective not only leaving stuff open there is a potential health hazard but also going privately could be seen as them targeting you specifically, when in the gc it was more like a vague psa for all employees
The bottle was open with a daydot sticker as per company policy, well within date so no health hazard.
As for not targeting me specifically, no, my name is not mentioned, but it’s clear that the photos are from this morning shift and the entire staff can see on the rota who closed last night. It’s framed as a PSA for all colleagues using my close as an example. Which she does (with all colleagues, not just me) several times a week over the smallest things.
I left mine ages ago. People kept asking why I left and I was honest and said because it is full of shit.
If they got a problem, say it to my face or message me directly.
Adding people to a group chat where all employees can see each other’s numbers may be a breach of GDPR as an employee's phone number is personal data, and sharing it without a lawful basis or consent constitutes a breach. I’m not convinced compulsory additions to a group “managing staff” is a lawful reason (vs e.g. sharing an emergency contact) & also puts them at risk of harassment claims. We’ve always made employees and volunteers in WhatsApp groups very aware of the risks before asking them if they want adding.
I agree it’s a shitty way to manage staff too.
The stupid thing is that it could be done via BCC on email as most people have that on their phones.
"my shift ends at x I shouldnt have to be reading messages at Y oclock regarding issues that can be raised when we go back on the clock at Zam"
its not even an aide memoir lest they forget an issue they want to raise the next day.. its just performative shite so that whoever is above them gets to drop in to whatsapp and see how much of a disciplinarian hardass they (think) they are
I hate these work chats like this and have had to work with managers who do this and get them to stop.
However… I also understand at the time of frustration why they do it and it’s the quickest way to highlight something to everyone - a meeting may be a month away and it’s difficult to get everyone together
That said I think it’s the wrong way to go about it
I have a similar colleague in my work group chat. And I’ve threatened to leave it before.
My large critique of chats like this is that, say you’re a team of 20. 3 or 4 people are working together in the morning, and the other 16 are at home. Manager sends a message in. 16 people are then reading criticism/feedback/information related to their role, while not being paid.
If a business wants you to be involved in a work chat used for the purpose of conveying information/feeding back criticism, they should find a way that is only accessible whilst in work, like a work email or an in office whiteboard
I don’t believe that you are under any obligation to stay in the chat and have a lot of respect for you pushing back this very inappropriate way of your manager critiquing your work, but you could wait and see if you setting this boundary stops the behaviour happening in future
Had one like this. When someone responded similar to what you have said, they blocked anyone from replying and continued the behaviour. It actually got worse as it became a dictatorship via WhatsApp. Not fun. Left ASAP.
I remember hearing that if it was mandatory for your job then they would also have to provide a work phone in that case?
I know in my job they explicitly asked for consent before adding me and made it clear that we didn't have to consent if we didn't want to be in it. That said, everyone is in it 😂
The thing that bugs me most about this is that it could have been done in an email or face to face, in work hours and using official work tools. The need to put it in a WhatsApp message because the manager knows it would likely be read ‘instantly’ regardless whether it’s out of hours really says everything about them.
These ‘boss vs employee’ questions on Reddit are met with the same sort of responses you would find from relationships questions. Lol.
“Girl, without wider context, it is certainly, definitely not your fault. Your boss is the A hole.”
I don’t want these people to ever complain, as customers, about receiving ’bad service’.
How do you know the person who served you a mouldy raw chicken burger isn’t just going through something at home. Don’t be so toxic!!
Tbh, the personal story wasn’t necessary to share, esp in depth. You owe no explanation for that part.
Other than that I agree with everything else that’s said, well done for taking responsibility
I work at Greggs and I simply refuse to join any group chat. I get paid while I'm there, speak to me then.
Our area manager added us to a Teams group chat a few months ago too and I left that too instantly and my manager attempted to bollock me for it before I told her to piss off.
I'll also not be told how poor of a close I've done by a manger that only puts herself on three of them a month... must be nice coming in everyday to a clean shop to destroy it during the day and then leave the late shift to clean it all in three hours while also serving.
I left my work group chat for this reason, and the idea of being in a group of my colleagues and manager to always be contactable is just something you shouldn’t do. They asked, and I just said I don’t want to be in it. They don’t say anything because they couldn’t. They have my number and can contact me directly and personally, but there isn’t anything to say I have to be in a group chat for work. But I also have my phone in DND from 8 at night till 8 the next day, so even directly they can’t contact me outside of those hours 😂 Boundaries are important; my manager makes hers very clear, and I made mine.
Opening shift are the biggest babies on the planet.
From an ex restaurant worker I recommend taking some photos of how clean the place is when 1st shift go home.
Mute and archive, if challenged refuse to use WhatsApp or other group messenger for work unless manager can show it’s in your contract. If pushed ask to be notified of work issues by your work email, then only check this during work hours. You may become unpopular with some types of manager, but when enough employees do this it helps force your employer to be open about their communication requirements. For right or wrong this may affect comments in any references given to you, so perhaps pick your battles.
You can mute the WhatsApp and only read it during working hours. If you are part of the management team though, I don’t think the rest of the team would look to fondly on that..
I don’t want to sound like I’m criticising. You say that you were rushing your closedown and didn’t check everything properly because you needed to take your aunt to her rehab appointment, but you were sending other staff home early? If you knew you had to get out of there on time why’d you send extra help home?
A valid question; I sent my barista home early because of the huge amount of pressure, both from this manager and those above her, to save as many hours as humanly possible otherwise the world will end.
In retrospect, I should’ve just used the extra half an hour to keep her to help with the cleanup.
It’s ok. The only way anyone gets better at anything is through experience and doing, imo managing people is one of the hardest things to do because there are so many different personalities out there. Definitely don’t be afraid to approach your manager for a chat though! Like any company there will always be be steps above your manager if you don’t think you’re being listened too 👍🏻
Just leave. Don’t give an explanation. It’s your life.
Your manager sounds like a large proportion of the managers I had when I worked in hospitality many many years ago - thankfully before the time of WhatsApp and group chats. I literally just walked out of the last hospitality job I had when I was assistant manager of a coffee shop due to being belittled, micromanaged and then told I wasn’t loading a dishwasher properly. Walked out, went home and told my ex I’d quit my job. Didn’t have a plan at all, that was 12 years ago and got a job labouring for £80 a day. Life’s too short for shitty managers. Hopefully it gets better for you with everything and works out! Good luck
At the very least archive it. Then you can just go and check it five minutes before your shift or whenever feels like it's not stealing your time and soul.
If nobody even asked before adding you, and you're getting this stuff outside of working hours, just leave the group. They can raise that as an issue if they want but unless there's some reason why you're in the group, just leave it.
As a manager, the first thing I did when I started my current job is shut down work WhatsApp group. Everyone needs work life balance. They can't force you to stay in the group unless they provide you with a company phone, and even then you'd only be expected to look at it during your working hours. Leave the chat if you haven't already.
I wish you were my manage. When I started my job my manager asked for my number which I gave (for business purposes) was added to a whatsapp group which I hate. So much harder to get work life balance. Also work with sensitive info which shouldn’t be on WhatsApp.
When I worked in Blockbuster I had my free rentals removed for two weeks because I did not wind in Henry the hoovers cable in correctly. I still did shitty closes because we were not paid past the shop closing.
If it's your phone, take off all the work stuff. You're not obligated to be in the chat at all and you could flag it as a breach of GDPR if they insist.
I think you need to debate leaving the job more so than the WhatsApp group.The work place can honestly be a joyous experience when your colleagues/management is down to earth. Your team/manager sound like a-holes.
Agree, leaving the WhatsApp will make your job harder. I got ‘forced’ to join a work WhatsApp group and hate it. I think leaving it would make the situation more difficult for the OP.
This has Costa written all over it! The seem groups chat were a thing when I worked there over ten years ago. I think because they had a forum they think they can use it to sh*t on people. I do get the frustration if you’re constantly opening with poor closes the night before, but outing someone in the WhatsApp group is definitely not professional.
They have a terrible tone but I get why they'd feel the need to comment on it publicly, they probably think it'll serve as a reminder to everyone.
I think your response was spot on EXCEPT mentioning your aunt/mother. That's completely inappropriate for a work chat and you'll probably get some sort of shit for it down the line. I don't think it's sackable though.
Ah, the "public" shaming. I am familiar with it.
At an undefined point in my working career, I had a manager who spent the Monday morning online meeting going through every single piece of work that each team member had in their caseload. If you hadn't made sufficient progress with one (or more) of them, you could be subject to a "telling off" with all your colleagues listening. Sometimes a telling off went on for 20 minutes. Everyone else in the meeting was sitting there, horrified that the manager was doing this and also completely pissed off about the total and utter waste of time.
Surely "can you stay on at the end of the call" is all that needs to be said?
In these circumstances, I'd leave the WhatsApp chat because I don't imagine that membership of the group is required by the contract and you have a right to a work / life balance.
I've continued to maintain this at every job I've ever had
The only app I will download for work is a rota app
If you need to contact me you have my phone number I will not download a 3rd party texting app for work
I especially will not download one that is owned by Facebook
If they don't like it I simply don't care because they have a way to contact me
Absolutely not. Your time is your time and your personal phone is your personal phone. There's no obligation to devote any part of either to work related things unless you are on the clock/ on call etc.
I have Teams and email for working hours. They can contact me on those. They can even contact me on those when I'm not working, if they like. Evenings and weekends, ec, fine, fire away, message me. I just won't look at them until I'm back at my desk being paid to look at them during my normal working hours.
When I clock off, I clock off.
I just have any work whatsapp groups im added to muted
You want to get hold of me out of hours, you better pay me for that shit
Boundaries people, put them up, hold them in place
“A side note to it is I was never asked for consent to be added to either the entire staff group or the management group, nor to have my number shared with every member of the team”
sounds like a GDPR breach to me
Nope! I refuse to be part of group chats like this. A previous manager who was a complete bully used it to call out the younger members of staff in front of everyone for petty shit like this. Talk to staff in person. Its obvious who was on shift the night before because there's a rota!
Leave the group. If your manager says anything tell him in more words to fuck off.
Your contract very likely doesn’t state that you have to have WhatsApp and be in this group. Therefore you have no obligation to.
That being said it sounds like your manager is a prick anyway so will still be a prick regardless
I used to send photos as a manager but it was clear I never expected a reply it was for reference. We also rotated shifts so there was no 'dayshift vs close shift' nonsense. Myself and the other managers were super competitive though and we would go around being like I need to do this so xx doesnt take pictures. Guess which store was the cleanest in the area and scored 100% on inspections?
We didn't have anyone other than managers in the chat though and none of that messaging to go with the pics unless someone wasn't sure what the rule was around it.
In your situation though I agree her messages were toxic and she could have spoken to you directly, but you also could have spoken to her beforehand as well to let her know of the situation and maybe swap a shift, leave early or keep an extra person late to help you leave faster?
Sorry that your manager doesn’t know how to lead. No doubt nobody has ever actually told her how to build a high performing team properly and the damage this does to psychological safety, morale, retention…
I removed my mobile number from work systems when we got a new manager that insisted the team needed a WhatsApp group. This just left my landline recorded and, in the last 6 months, Virgin have even disconnected the line to that so now I'm uncontactable by my employer outside of work. It's bliss.
Whatever you’ve got going on outside of work hours has no relevance to your actual work. Turn up, do your job, go home. It’s really that simple. If you had actually done your job correctly in the first place, you would have avoided all of this. Typical victim mindset.
Yes you can leave it.
You shouldn't have brought up personal family stuff (just personal family stuff would have been sufficient)
If you sent that back in the same group chat you're just as bad!
Speak with them directly and leave the group.
Almost uncanny how similar this is to my work group chat. The managers are constantly making little passive aggressive digs over something that could be a quick in person conversation with whoever was on shift.
I'm not really sure what they think it achieves other than creating animosity and an uncomfortable working environment.
I'm put on the close for the majority of my shifts. Anyone working the afternoon shift is supposed to do as much of the replenishing jobs before they leave as they can so when we close we're not also having to doing that because we only have 30 minutes once the shop closes to get everything done. Inevitably if the afternoon shift has left us in the shit things get rushed and sometimes missed but a bitchy message isn't going to change that.
Oh, your ass is so getting fired. You should know that you're not allowed to clap back at a toxic manager, especially during this massive job crisis. You've now basically just told her 'I'm easily replaceable, please let me go! Neither of us want to be around each other and we both view each other as incompetent!'
Stay in it. They will notice you leave and it can be handy to use in emergencies. I have notifications on WhatsApp muted and just open the chat every now and then to clear notifications. So far, no one has called me out on not using it.
Once when working in retail, I told my evening staff who started a bit later not to join it, as all you will see is the morning staff moaning about you. Anything deemed important, I would tell them. However, I just muted it in the end as I had enough of reading people just bitching, nothing to do with actual work.
My manager got annoyed with me when I said I don't read it, but I said if anything is important you can text me, or tell me when I start my shift, and also said if you expect me to stay on it and pay attention, then I want to be paid for doing 'work'.
Someone I used to work with was like this the moment she became a supervisor and I was a manager above her. Best thing was she never did closes, would leave about 7pm every shift, sat on her arse reading most of the time on shift. Would complain about having to fill up sauce bottles despite having an hour to open in a really small pub that took 15 minutes to set up. Its so draining to have to deal with
My job is pretty much the same. Lots of WhatsApp messages everyday.
No one there has my personal number. They have a number I use for work purposes. I have a shitty old smartphone that I only ever use at work and I never take it home.
However, we are not allowed mobile phones with us while on the shop floor. As such, I can never read the messages - my lunchtime is spent outside.
If they ask me to respond to a message or read a message, I can only do this during my working hours.
This is an extremely common scenario in hospitality. I've been there, and as a manager I now shut this down immediately. It's personally something I find immature and I find it contributes to a tit for tat between the opening and closing shift.
Leaving the chat is not going to do favours for you in the environment you are in. It's going to come across a certain way atleast socially and you may be pulled in for a chat by your manager. If you attain your schedule through a different method, it is likely worth trying to ignoring the chat and peaking less, or muting so no one gets a notification.
The reality is closing shift have the more demanding shift. Opening tend to leave the mess that only the closing shift have to deal with.
In your position, I would politely pull the manager to the side and have a talk with them. You're not likely going to win the fight when it comes to the standard of the closing shift but you can discuss how you feel the chat is being used as a way of shaming employees and it's contributing to an environment you don't feel comfortable in. If you find yourself on closing shift too often to bear with, try and ask for balance so atleast you're opening just as much.
I'm sorry OP. If you manager does not change, it is likely that this is something that maybe should push for you to change jobs if you can. Whilst you may not directly be fired for leaving a group chat, the struggle is proving the case that your manager did not fire you because of the quality of your work instead.
Honestly I was ready to say depends on the purpose... But by the looks of this nevermind leaving the WhatsApp, I'd be leaving the job.
I work in IT Support and in every job we have had a WhatsApp group for emergencies (e.g company comms are down) but they were never used for this kind of bullshit.
Just say you're doing a digital detox and no longer have a smartphone. If they want you to be available on WhatsApp for work, they can provide you with a suitable device.
Honestly you can mute the bloody thing without al the hassle of leaving.
It’s what I’ve done for every work group chat I’ve ever had. I have it so unless I’m pinged directly I don’t get a message.
just mute the group chat.
job market is crap, better not mess about if it was me.
mute and then just... wait for you to get a notification if someone mentions you specifically?
You should put in writing that if it’s not in your contract, you will never be reading or participating in the chat while you’re not working.
I wish you the best finding a new job because managers like this never change 💀
Yes you can leave, you’ve got fuck all obligations to be in that chat unless I guess you’ve been issued a work phone and there’s something in the contract. Adding everyone into a group chat without permission is a breach of the data protection act so you could always throw that out. It doesn’t mean your manager won’t be a complete prick about it, though.
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