If you believe in chem trails, could you give your reasoning?

Posted by FinalBv@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 254 comments

I'm not sure why I keep seeing posts related to this recently on other platforms, it's something i've never encountered before. I am not sure if the people commenting are all in a single community, friend group or such as I am unable to reply to ask the question as it is limited/restricted to me. It just sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory and I brushed it off but the replies I was reading were shocking to me and seems people genuinely believe this is a thing. It's just a condensation trail, right? So if you are a believer in chem trails, what has given you this mindset and what evidence, if any, can you provide? Thank you.

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Any_Peace_1644@reddit

It's on the UK government website. They are spraying chemicals to dim the Sun

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Original_House4546@reddit

Hey guys. I'm a college student doing writing a research paper about the chemtrails conspiracy theory. If you'd like, I would appreciate it if some of y'all reached out to me and explained why you believe in chemtrails, what specifically about chemtrails you believe in, and makes you stay in the chemtrails community. Thank you!

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Due-Title-1049@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/xl2tx6kxuzug1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abf64c3f69c2973461cfa6fc914f1b09ec7bfcfd Look at the shape they made two days ago..

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gogybo@reddit

My uncle does. We got into a big debate once about it at a family barbecue. The fact that I worked at Rolls-Royce at the time and spent every working day looking at aircraft engine drawings, doing flow analysis etc and could guarantee there was no possible place for a chemical generator anywhere in the engines didn't mean anything to him.

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Crazy_Sale_6326@reddit

You are wrong - geo weather modification has been going on since the late 1940's. You think you are bright, but you aren't. They are poisoning you and your family, and everyone where they are spraying. You obviously do t know how to research.

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WhoEvenGoesAsFarAs@reddit

Wouldn't it be simplest to mix in the fruity additives to the fuel itself? Not sure what it's actually supposed to do, beyond manufacturing homosexually-inclined amphibians, though. Whatever it is would also need to endure high pressures and temperatures, which makes me wonder how it interacts with Anura biochemistry. It's weird though. Before my dad had an accident at work and was let go for not being able to work anymore*, he was an aircraft fuel inspector at the local airport (which was also used by the armed forces to refuel their aeroplanes). He never mentioned anything about frogs or fruity biochemical agents. The runway rabbits were a problem though, but considering how many little ones there were, they were definitely not gay bunnies. Personally, I reckon that it's just MI9½ seeding the atmosphere with H2O compounds, so that the lizard people don't get dry skin. *This was before ambulance chasing lawyers became a thing.

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gogybo@reddit

I have no idea. You would need an actual definition of what is needed from the "airborne geoengineering function" first before you could begin to evaluate whether a separate tank or a fuel premix option would be better. It's all a non-starter anyway - commercial aviation isn't a good platform for climate geoengineering because planes fly too low for any released aerosols to have the right effect. They need to be ejected near the top of the stratosphere otherwise they just fall out of the sky, but planes barely reach the bottom of the stratosphere which is about 30kft too low. Wouldn't matter of course if you *wanted* all your mind-controlling aerosols to rain on people below, but for that case why go to all the effort and cost of spraying people from the air when it would be far cheaper, easier and more effective to do it from the ground instead? At the very least you'd save yourself the hassle of working with a disparate network of aircraft and engine companies who all really really hate you for adding weight, time and cost into their development programmes. Interesting about your dad though - my field is fuel as well, but on the system design and analysis side (nowadays for aircraft). Ashamed to say I know very little about the inspection process. I'm sure he could teach me a lot!

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WhoEvenGoesAsFarAs@reddit

Heh, yeah. That's the trouble with these massive types of conspiracy theories. There's so many people involved, they'd need to spend more time whack-a-moleing potential leakers, than they'd be spending on whatever it is that they're supposed to be doing. Anyway, I'm afraid dad's dead now. I was mostly still a kid when he was still working, so don't really know the details of what he did. Briefly, I think he told me that it was mostly checking for contamination, such as water, and whether the fuel was still "good." From what I understand, AVGAS(sic?) actually expires after a while if it's just been sitting there. The airport serviced both jets and propeller aeroplanes. Sometimes he'd bring us home the expired test kits to play with. They were like little metal test tubes, with a tampon-like thing inside. I also got a ride on one of the big airport fire engines when I was little. About 40 years later, I'm still buzzing from that :-)

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autofill-name@reddit

Personally I think it's a conspiracy encouraged by the aviation and fuel industry to discredit anyone who points out that it's not just water condensate they can see, but kerosene combustion byproducts which contain all sorts of additives. Last time I checked, lead (the mind control link) was still in use.

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gogybo@reddit

That's not a secret though. How could it be when even schoolchildren know that combustion releases byproducts? There is work ongoing to reduce some of these (NOx and particulates mainly) but the biggest problem by far is CO2 due to its effect on global warming. The industry would like people to believe this will be reduced as planes and engines become more efficient, but the truth is that more efficient aeroplanes just leads to cheaper tickets which induces more people to fly, so total emissions actually go up. The only thing that can really reduce CO2 is reducing how much we fly, but since the aviation industry doesn't want that and neither does the public, it never gets talked about. But that's the closest thing you'll find to any industry-wide "conspiracy" regarding emissions, and it's not even a conspiracy - it's just standard corporate self-interest and messenging. There definitely isn't anyone scheming to keep chemtrails a viable conspiracy just so it can be somehow used to surpress knowledge that is routinely taught to 13 year olds up and down the country, and the specific topic of aviation emissions is literally the biggest topic right now in the aviation industr. Loads of people are talking about it, not just in the industry but in academia and politics too, and countless words have been written on it. Nobody is trying to silence anybody and all the info is freely available for anyone to find. Normal aviation fuel doesn't contain lead btw.

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autofill-name@reddit

Ok, there's no conspiracy theory about chemtrails. Bye.

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JackXDark@reddit

Is it not the case that chemical injection to produce the *opposite* of visible trails has attempted? I seem to recall that the Blackbird, or one of the variants that led to it, had some sort of way of injecting cobalt (or something... I don't recall exactly what it was) into the vapour trails in order to make them less visible. I also recall that modern stealth aircraft don't bother with that, but have some sort of trail monitoring system that lets the pilots know if they're visible, and that the remedy is simply to change altitude.

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Bigbigcheese@reddit

>I also recall that modern stealth aircraft don't bother with that, but have some sort of trail monitoring system that lets the pilots know if they're visible, and that the remedy is simply to change altitude. Did you know most of the climate change effects caused by aircraft could be mitigated just by changing altitude if you're producing contrails? [interesting map](http://map.contrails.org)

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

Don't encourage the geoengineering conspiracy types! They already think the past winters rain and cloud was the result of evil weather modification experiments to prevent global warming...(you know. as opposed to a long term prediction of what said warming would do to tne UK...)

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JK07@reddit

Probably because it is something being researched, they may have heard teams like Solar Radiation Management and Stratospheric Aerosol Injection and believed it's already happening. like described here on the NOAA climate site here: https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/solar-radiation-modification-noaa-state-science-factsheet They've probably more likely heard of Cloud Seeding to help make it rain/snow in specific places and presumed it's happening all over and is to blame for bad weather anywhere. They're not totally unfounded, it's right to be concerned about some of the proposed geo engineering ideas.

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Mr_Vacant@reddit

I believe the B2 stealth bomber was designed with the feature but it's not used because as you said changing altitude can do the same thing.

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

Simplest solution always the best - suspect being able to fly high with no trail's an advantage for a strategic bomber but even then, simple wins.

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chemo92@reddit

Just looked this up it. They put caesium (the non radioactive version thankfully) which creates some sort of plasma in the exhaust plume which reduced its (massive) heat signature. All mentions of it only reference the A12 which was basically the prototype to the blackbird so this caesium fuel may only have been used experimentally.

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mdmnl@reddit

Even non-radioactive caesium is a bitch to handle. Have to hand it to the scientists who don't let common sense, practicality or anything else get in the way of dropping bigger bombs further and faster... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S2G_reactor They used sodium - a highly reactive metal (though less reactive than caesium!) - to cool the reactor on a nuclear sub.

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spikewilliams2@reddit

Don't forget the nuclear powered planes that can fly for weeks spewing nuclear exhaust everywhere

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chemo92@reddit

Liquid sodium cooling is actually pretty brilliant Sodium coolant and the way the fuel is configured allows the physics of the system itself to be what makes it safe, rather than an added on safety mechanism that can fail. https://youtu.be/Sp1Xja6HlIU?si=lzbdrirawZ3fJOca Brilliant video on the safety of sodium cooled IFRs

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mdmnl@reddit

Oh it's marvellous, just the idea of filling the underwater nuclear boat with a material that *loves* reacting with water... Out of the box thinking, to be sure.

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CoffeeIgnoramus@reddit

"That's exactly what an aircraft engine expert would say!" /s

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pajamakitten@reddit

"I see they got to you too."

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sunheadeddeity@reddit

"Do your own research!"

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sameoldkit@reddit

He could look in an aircraft ready to fly and still say "you took it out", despite there being no space for it by the sounds of things

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I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS@reddit

No amount of reasoning from a suitably qualified person will do the trick with these people; they simply expand the conspiracy to include anyone disputing what they have *a priori* accepted as fact. It reaches a point where admitting not only that they are wrong, but also admitting how much of their own life they have wasted on it and how foolish they have looked to everyone around them, is more painful than simply continuing the anguish of being the only one who knows 'the truth'. There's an old joke about God himself speaking to a conspiracy theorist and telling them that the whole thing is bunk and they should stop it. The response is "Wow, clearly this goes higher up than we thought."

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hirosknight@reddit

That's exactly the problem with conspiracy theories like this, it would have to involve so many people being in on it that it wouldn't even be a secret

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Tuarangi@reddit

Like any conspiracy theory, it's about them, they want to believe they're the smart ones among the sheep, accessing secret hidden knowledge that makes them feel better about their lives. Chem trails, moon landing, 9/11 whatever, they take a small bit of information, misinterpret it and then they get to feel important because they are in the know. Just block and move on, it's not worth the hassle

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MonsieurGump@reddit

There’s 3 types of conspiracy theorist. 1. The ones who know it’s bullshit and are profiting from 2 and 3. 2. Fucking morons who get delusions of adequacy from their “knowledge” 3. Preciously reasonable, often smart, people whose lives have gone to shit and they want to blame outside forces instead of their own bad luck/judgement/behaviour.

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schpamela@reddit

I think it's also often linked to an insistent belief in order and refusal to recognise chaos. Covid was an extremely chaotic time, with lots of unpredictable, unplanned things kicking off. Governments were trying to assert some amount of control in a mostly uncontrolled situation. I think many people couldn't accept such chaos can abruptly dominate our lives, and they turned to a belief that all of it was planned & orchestrated deliberately by all-powerful groups. Hence, Covid was manufactured or leaked deliberately, all as a way to assert even greater control somehow. As much as they malign the Secret Controllers, I suspect they feel they can make more more sense of a world where everything is ordained and nothing is chaotic and out of control.

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Dabonthebees420@reddit

Yeah my mother was always "kooky" but went full off the rails since COVID - if the world's governments were even half as organised as her conspiracies paint them out to be we'd be living it large. What anyone else draws up potholes to general incompetence, poor planning and bad policy is actually part of a grand global plan but in motion 100s of years ago by dark forces.

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Crazy_Sale_6326@reddit

Your mother is alot brighter than you are.

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pajamakitten@reddit

If politicians were organised then the Epstein files would not be being released in any capacity.

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lapodufnal@reddit

The one I knew had lost a brother at a young age, had a late term pregnancy loss and was left by her partner in early covid with two young children. Could absolutely see the thought process in real time (because all of it was posted online). The fact that life can be awful is harder to accept than the conspiracy theories. At least if someone is in charge of it all then all you need to do is bring them down. Covid especially, she was happier believing it was all lies and her kids were not in danger, I don’t think her brain was able to accept any more stress. Sadly all it did was make her and her children more at risk. Luckily they got through that ok. I do have some sympathy since she’s one of the ones being taken in by the grifters and it’s understandable why in some ways, but she’s also perpetuating the problem by sharing it all. I’m blocked now, commented too many times outright disproving her posts. Some of it was blatantly wrong and in areas I work in so I could send images I’d taken on my own phone so she had to either accept that she’s wrong or someone she has known since being in school is one of the ones being paid off to lie about it. She went for blocking and not confronting that issue. There’s a common theme in the posts that if something’s not easily understood with GCSE science it must be wrong. We weren’t friends so it’s no big loss, I just found the psychology of it very interesting. By the way, if anyone knows if there’s a subreddit for this stuff I’d love to see it, I kind of miss seeing the posts since I got blocked

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Charming_Advice_2933@reddit

With your first paragraph, you then get the 'post hoc, ergo propter hoc' fallacy of "see, I said my kids weren't in danger, didn't do the stuff they told us too and my kids are fine, that must mean I was right!". Then completely overlook and months of hard work that many people in the local and scientific communities did to try and stem the worst of COVID.

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Present_Air_7694@reddit

You omit the fourth sort. Ones who describe real conspiracies.

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MonsieurGump@reddit

OK. But I think we need definitions here. What most people call “conspiracy theorists” are better termed “conspiracy fantasists” They need separated from actual conspiracy theorists who believe (for example) that Ben Houchen is using his position to enrich two of his friends to enrich themselves from public funds.

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Present_Air_7694@reddit

I was taking issue with the lazy phrase, which plays into the hands of agencies that start 'conspiracy theories' to deflect attention from real conspiracies. It's 250 years since Adam Smith famously wrote that "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the publick, or in some contrivance to raise prices". Conspiracies are still the stock in trade of those in power. You serve that power by using the phrase so flippantly.

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MonsieurGump@reddit

You know. If you tried really, REALLY hard I bet you could come across as hugely pretentious. 😂🤣😂🤣

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PresidentPopcorn@reddit

You know there are real conspiracies in the world, right? Everything is a theory before it's proven.

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ashww005@reddit

Every conspiracy theorist I know falls into number 3, looking for reasons as to why their life isn’t as good as it should be.

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Educational_Try_6105@reddit

and schizophrenics

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gooly_man@reddit

Recently had a guy who fits number 3 at my work. He told me he invented wind farms and someone was hacking his phone to make him late for work because of all these other great ideas he had that were stolen. (He said he had something to do with blackberry phones and had the idea of GTA before it released). I told him he was spending too much time on the internet.

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louse_yer_pints@reddit

4, people who find a community and agency through their beliefs. I've been listening to a podcast about conspiracy theories and this is definitely a thing.

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draenog_@reddit

I saw someone commenting on a video about a fairly low stakes conspiracy theory the other day and they were like "Hi, new to the community here! 😄" and then reeled off a list of ~3 questions that they "didn't understand", almost as though they were looking for the 'party line' on why those *obvious* holes in the story weren't fatal to the whole worldview. Like... girl. What do you mean you're "new to the community" when they haven't even convinced you that what they're saying has any merit??? It was just this sad moment where I realised this girl was longing for people to talk to and a sense of belonging, and was fully willing to shut off her brain for it if they could just hastily paper over the cracks for her.

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better-out-there@reddit

Yes those 4 are correct and I believe that it goes even a bit beyond that. Well except for the first, I guess. Years ago, conspiracies were a bit more fringe. You could easily find them online if you searched for it. At that point, it would be reasonable to say that most people looked at those as a curiosity or because they stumbled upon it. This is where some would start actually believing it, digging deeper, etc. But nowadays these things spread. If you happen to look at some conspiracy content online, your activity is recorded and algorithms will pick that up to show you more of it, creating "engagement". So you get bombarded with more conspiracies everywhere you go, and soon enough it gets to some people.

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No-Jellyfish-177@reddit

I believe Covid really radicalised a lot of people, a lot of different fringe groups coalesced under the Covid banner and like you said algorithms took care of the rest

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schpamela@reddit

Yes true, but this is true of almost all social trends - religion, sports, music, the arts, fashion, politics and everything else. It is true but not distinctive of conspiracy theories IMO.

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JoesRealAccount@reddit

Whats the podcast? I wanna listen

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louse_yer_pints@reddit

Mariana in Conspiracyland, you can find it on BBC sounds and Amazon music.

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JoesRealAccount@reddit

Cheers! Wish there were more episodes though... looks a little light

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louse_yer_pints@reddit

It is just short episodes but it's still interesting for all that.

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Cirrus-Nova@reddit

So like religion then...

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

Definitely. And then go further into the deep end through that community. See r/conspiracy for definitive evidence...

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dani-dee@reddit

4. Chronic lifelong weed smokers

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HumanBeing7396@reddit

As I’ve said many times - the conspiracy *is* the conspiracy. There are always people who are desperate to feel some sense of control over their lives, and to believe that all of their problems are caused by a specific and easily identifiable group which could plausibly be defeated. And there are always people willing to give that to them, in exchange for money and influence.

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ashyboi5000@reddit

3 is my own conspiracy theory and I've been seeing it become prevalent post COVID, although I have no studies or education in psychology and adjacent so maybe it always existed. Conspiracy theorists turn in an attempt to regain a sense of control following trauma they can't (or chose not to) understand.

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MonsieurGump@reddit

The two people I know who’ve fallen the deepest did so after their divorce and the loss of a job/business.

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Beautiful_Hour_4744@reddit

4. Normal people who haven't learned critical thinking skills and scepticism and are taken in by the 'evidence' presented by 1, 2 and 3

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maylive666@reddit

So, all I'm going to say is how can you bunch up Chemtrails and 9/11? Also, the moon landings are a hoax does have merrit in the sense that the images that came live from the moon, just might have been made on a film set. Which NASA has been called out for before. That might send a simpleton in a tailspin, so the conspiracy has some foothold. But I want to know is why do you think 9/11 Conspiracy is crazy? I mean there is a TROVE of evidence that it was not what it seemed on the surface.

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Tuarangi@reddit

Both are equally nonsense with no proof, only speculation without any evidence, every claim of conspiracy about 9/11 has been heavily debunked from claims WTC7 just randomly collapsed (actually hit by thousands of tonnes of burning structures; the phrase "pull it" meaning to stop trying to save it, not a phrase used in demolition); to the nonsense about steel melting temperature (it doesn't have to reach that high to weaken enough to lose strength hence how people made iron armour and weapons in the years when they only had coal); the claims about insurance being taken out the days before (actually a legal requirement of the lease that was taken out). The number of people needed to take part and somehow put in explosives, kill all the passengers etc is far too high to keep quiet. It's been 25 years, not one death bed confession, not one dead drop leak to a journalist with evidence etc. >Also, the moon landings are a hoax does have merrit in the sense that the images that came live from the moon, just might have been made on a film set. They don't have "merrit"[sic] not least because the footage was not live, it was beamed by radio via stations with a delay. Why did Russia not immediately call out their deadly enemy, the nation they had 10,000 nuclear warheads pointed at and just decide to agree to support the lie? >That might send a simpleton in a tailspin, so the conspiracy has some foothold. Yes, I agree that 9/11 does attract simpletons

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RupesNegro@reddit

Eat my dick you fuck

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YragNitram1956@reddit

*Ours is an evangelical culture. So many people convinced that they've* *been saved by jesus, cured by homeopathy or the laying on of hands,* *abducted by aliens or protected by angels seek public acknowledgement* *that their convictions are true. Imbued with. messianic fervour, or* *simply seeking 'validation', they are not content to hoard the truth;* *they are compelled to share it and convert the unenlightened, relying* *on the force of their own intense emotions. Generally, the only proof* *offered for a fantastic belief is the passion it inspires.* WENDY KAMINER, *Sleeping with Extra-Terrestrials (1999)*

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Figueroa_Chill@reddit

I love it when they tell us about how they conducted their own research.

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MAWPAB@reddit

>they want to believe they're the smart ones among the sheep There are lots of 'conspiracy theories' that were subsequently proven to be true, so your dismissal of anyone believing in a specific conspiracy as self aggrandising is silly. Operation Northwoods Iran Contra CIA drug running MK Ultra ...i dunno, maybe large rings of elites raping children and then creating a massive cover up at governmental level?

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Tuarangi@reddit

This is what's known as the exception that proves the rule. It's a well known fallacy to try and suggest that because X is true, unrelated idea Y must be true because they're both conspiracies. Real conspiracies exist and we know this precisely *because* they cannot be kept under wraps. Operation Northwoods was a small scale project, rejected by Kennedy, involving the Joint Chiefs of Staff and kept in the US Defense department. It was made public 35 years later, Northwoods only lasted as long as it did as it was tiny, kept inside the top level US state department and highly classified. Iran-Contra was made public by a Lebanese magazine *while the deals were still ongoing* MK Ultra was made public 2 years after the project was ended This is why it is not remotely silly to dismiss people blathering on about the moon landings (56 years later, no evidence), 9/11 (25 years later, no evidence), vaccines (Wakefield's lies were debunked) etc. We know they are nonsense precisely because there is no evidence at all and more importantly, they have not been leaked. Something like chemtrails would not have lasted this long without leaks, not least from pilots involved who would have been spraying their own families.

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FunDaikon7377@reddit

That's not remotely close to what he said, you just used the straw man fallacy, he never said "X conspiracy theory therefore Y must also be true" if he did quote it and show us. He's addressing your point where you said "Like any conspiracy theory theory, it's all about them" What about the people calling Epstein out many years before his arrest? , the language used in the Epstein emails are very similar to the pizzagate conspiracy nearly a decade old, using the same code words and references, which are verified emails of John Podesta who ironically shows up on the Epstein files. You are ironically doing what you claim the conspiracy theorists do.

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MAWPAB@reddit

> It's a well known fallacy to try and suggest that because X is true, unrelated idea Y must be true because they're both conspiracies This is not what i said at all. You tarred anyone who believed in a conspiracy theory with the same brush. I said, some conspiracies turn out to be true, so your assertion that anyone who believes in a theory is doing so to inflate their own ego is false. Or, if you like comparing logical fallacies, then you made a strawman of the person who believes only in idiotic conspiracy theories as if no rational conspiracies have ever existed with people having got wind of them before they are proven correct. >Real conspiracies exist and we know this precisely because they cannot be kept under wraps. Cool, people were discussing Epstein's doings long before his first arrest, many many years ago. That was a conspiracy theory that most rational people dismissed to be as likely as chemtrails at the time.

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GrimQuim@reddit

The earth is round. Smoking is bad. Diamonds are inherently valuable. Iraq had WMDs. Epstein killed himself. WTC 7 just fell down. That's all true.

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Tuarangi@reddit

Iraq was demonstrated not to have WMD, proving you can't run a conspiracy WTC 7 didn't just fall down, it was demonstrably hit by tonnes of molten metal, structural supports from the main WTC building and had an oil generator in the basement as backup Epstein was probably killed but equally valid as a conspiracy is him having connections to be allowed to kill himself to avoid jail

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Aggressive_Drop_1518@reddit

To be fair, Saddam did use mustard gas along with the nerve agents sarin and tabun in the Iran/Iraq war and all are considered a weapon of mass destruction. Of course Iraq also used chemical weapons (thought to be hydrogen cyanide, sarin, or sulfur mustard gas) against Iraqi Kurds. The most notorious such attack was the killing of 5,000 Kurds, including many civilians, in the city of Halabjah in 1988. He did spend a lot of energy trying to convince us he had WMDs. No he didn't have nukes but I suspect he still had some chemical weapons that either got easily smuggled out or buried.

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Tuarangi@reddit

I get what you mean but there's never been any evidence he still had the weapons in great number and certainly no means to attack the UK, nor were any weapons found buried etc. The person I replied to is just using a common fallacy of something being true somehow proving an unrelated other event to be true

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Aggressive_Drop_1518@reddit

I agree we were safe in the UK from a 'missile' attack but a non conventional deployment was still a risk. Small but none the less... Think a larger scale 'two russians do Salisbury' attack. Iraq also were ready to deploy biological warheads containing anthrax and botulinum toxin in preparation to attack the Gulf War coalition, but Saddam thought better of it. I was out there for 1990/91 with the RAMC and in truth many of us were 'a little concerned' whilst doing our best swan impressions. There was a lot of places to dump/burn shit and with 600+ oil fields burning...

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R-Mutt1@reddit

People believe what they want to believe and ignore what they don't, for all manner of reasons. Plenty of 'normal people' might say they lack all the facts on JFK or 9/11 or the moon landing or COVID, or dispute the accuracy and impartiality of a chosen media outlet. Where do you draw the line between scepticism and someone living in their parents basement believing alternative theories on all of the above plus, chemtrails and flat earth, rejecting everything they see in the mainstream media and thinking they've got the upper hand on the rest of us gullible mugs?

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Tuarangi@reddit

>Where do you draw the line between scepticism and someone living in their parents basement believing alternative theories on all of the above plus, chemtrails and flat earth, rejecting everything they see in the mainstream media and thinking they've got the upper hand on the rest of us gullible mugs When people with no expertise in a subject think they can "do their own research" or understand these things rather than deferring to qualified people

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R-Mutt1@reddit

While 'research' has been conducted on the Internet rather than the moon, believers in these theories will often present evidence from experts, some of whom may be qualified in the relevant fields. Others merely self proclaimed experts. Someone's theory isn't validated by their qualifications any more having an alternative theory invalidates their qualifications, which is fortunate as there would be no new scientific discoveries otherwise.

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Tuarangi@reddit

I think maybe we're talking different things? If you have no scientific knowledge you are not qualified to interpret data let alone conduct things like double blind trials which are needed to support a scientific theory. When someone refuses to vaccinate their kid because they "did their own research" they're not talking about reading medical journals or carrying out research or reviewing data to see if it's correct, they're just going on social media or anti vaccine forums inside their echo chamber to get validation for the views they already have. They're not looking to be challenged nor would they accept evidence that contradicts their views, they'd just dismiss that as part of the conspiracy. Conversely any "experts" that they use are accepted without question and they don't try and "research" anything that supports their confirmation bias. >Someone's theory isn't validated by their qualifications any more having an alternative theory invalidates their qualifications, which is fortunate as there would be no new scientific discoveries otherwise. No but their qualifications allow them to provide evidence to support their theory, that is how science works. Someone unqualified may well be able to come up with a theory but if they cannot substantiate it, it's not accepted as valid. Perhaps more importantly for science, it's not just their qualifications, it's the qualifications and experience of others who peer review to look to see if it's valid data, if they did it correctly, if they made mistakes etc The sort of moron who makes a decision about vaccinations based on what they saw on social media and only look at sources that support what they already believe are not doing research, they're just looking for something that confirms what they have already decided.

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froggit0@reddit

Belief in such things has become a little more normalised with the end of the Cold War and disclosures about what Teh GOVT!! actually did. Chem trails? Ridiculous- it’s like the American government dosing people with radioactive trackers on the NYC subway to study movement patterns , or releasing genetically modified E. coli in San Fransisco Bay to track winds, or setting up polio vaccination programmes to get the dna of terrorists. As Kissinger said, you’re paranoid, but are you paranoid enough? Another idea is that conspiracy theories are smokescreens, intended if not to obscure, then distract energies from actual conspiracies- UFOs may have been encouraged to conceal stealth technology. MKULTRA may have been the USA and USSR spoofing each other to waste resources over mind control and telekinesis and remote viewing- or Occam’s razor may tell us that simpleminded dumbassery goes right to the top (encouraged by scientific grift, though they may be allowed a pass on that- taking money for ridiculous research is actually scientifically valid- it’s how you find stuff out.)

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Tuarangi@reddit

The problem for this is that the fact we know about these genuine conspiracies is proof why things like chem trails are false - government especially cannot keep things secret and the more people involved, the higher the chances it will leak to the point it would be guaranteed if pilots throughout the world were part of this. Same point that it requires every government in the world to be part of it and keep quiet. MK Ultra doesn't give weight to chem trails, it blows it out of the water

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

Pratchett had something to say on it if I recall.

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Pedantichrist@reddit

Elucidate, do.

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

"“It's amazing how good governments are, given their track records in almost every other field, at hushing up things like alien encounters. One reason may be that the aliens themselves are too embarrassed to talk about it."

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mountainousbarbarian@reddit

The US government, at the immediate post-WW2 height of its power, influence and control, could not keep the secret of its unparalleled power from falling into the hands of its #1 enemy. So, wide-scale conspiracies of the 'fake moon landing' variety where more than 10k people have to keep quiet are simply impossible. Here's the story if you don't believe me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg

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Pedantichrist@reddit

In the flip side, we kept the Axis from knowing about RaDAR, by telling folk that carrots were good for your eyesight, so there are swings and roundabouts in this play park.

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mountainousbarbarian@reddit

That's a myth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freya_radar The Germans had RADAR. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_magnetron They didn't have this though.

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Pedantichrist@reddit

It is not really a myth - there were things about radar, specifically about our use of AI RaDAR which we kept the Axis from knowing about, by telling folk that carrots were good for your eyesight. They did not know we had AI RaDAR. I'll edit my comment, however.

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VisibleOtter@reddit

Not quite. The Germans had Radar, but it worked on a wavelength measured in metres. The British Radar worked on 10cm wavelength or less, and that meant it was able to fit into the nose of a night fighter and it enabled pilots to shoot down German aircraft at night (short wave radar uses small aerials, while the German long wave radar used aerials that were absolutely vast). The Germans thought short wavelength radar wasn’t possible so to stop them from looking further the Brits put out the rumour that their pilots were being given carotene to help their night vision.

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froggit0@reddit

The existence of such things is the basis for the Rogen facsimile of reasonableness- just asking questions, oh, hey, it’s happened before, nobody trusts the government. In that enviroment, chemtrails become not unreasonable.

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sunheadeddeity@reddit

Yes I have them in my family and this is spot on. It's an identity for them, not a genuine debate based on objective evidence and some shared facts. If you disprove or question one thing too hard they yell "do your own research!" And toggle to the next topic. Basically they are need attention-seekers who think they are clever and have access to some occult knowledge.

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shanelomax@reddit

> It's an identity for them And of course, this is what makes it *so difficult* to snap them out of it. They don't see it as their opinions being challenged, they see it as their entire sense of identity and self being challenged.

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donalmacc@reddit

You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into

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Douglesfield_@reddit

Is that the yoof call "main character syndrome"?

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WretchedGibbon@reddit

Not by itself, no. It's just a need to feel superior in some way. Though a good chunk of them do also have main character syndrome for sure (the ones who believe that the CIA is after them because they once saw a shape while driving late at night, etc).

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Formal_Produce3759@reddit

I don't believe in chemtrails but it turns out that "Pizzagate" was correct TBF.

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Tuarangi@reddit

Pizzagate was created from nothing, 4chan founder Moot met Epstein, created /Pol the same day, along comes Q who claims Democrats ordering pizza was some complex code for child abuse in the basement of a place that didn't even have a basement. It's always projecting, as we know the GOP are neck deep in the files

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mountainousbarbarian@reddit

But Qanon has been proven beyond reasonable doubt to be Ron Watkins who has nothing to do with anything except shitposting and questionable sexual practices.

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AvoriazInSummer@reddit

Err... Not really, apart from in the vaguest 'some celebrities have networks to help each other abuse children' way. There was no secret basement under Comet Pizza where children were getting diddled.

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Formal_Produce3759@reddit

Er the Podest emails were fairly wild in itself. Also, the Epstein files are fairly insane and you'd be absolutely called a conspiracy theorist if you came out with what was in them 10 or 15 years ago. The "lolita express" "conspiracy" springs to mind. Then you have a guy networking with all sorts of top officials, Royalty etc etc, trafficking kids to an island in the Carribbean. It's nuts.

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Douglesfield_@reddit

Thanks for the clarification.

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Crazy_Sale_6326@reddit

Wow, you are call so dim. Cjemitrails have been sprayed since the mid 1940's, and weather experiments have been happening since the late 1800's. We are being poisoned. You all need to realise our skies NEVER had grid and line patterns dominating it like it does now. Most conspiracy theories are true, and are corruption they are trying to hide from you. Obviously it works on most people due to the amount of propaganda and brainwashing you are all susceptible to. They are causing dangerous weather changes and floods around the world. In 1954, in Plymouth in the UK, they carried out geo weather modification and cloud seeding so bad they caused horrific floods resulting in the deaths of 35 people. The flood in Dubai was because of cloud seeding too. It's a shame human beings are so easily manipulated. Thank god some of us are not, and can research.

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tomagandhi@reddit

There are many woo and insane conspiracy theories. It seems by these comments there are 2 camps. One group denys any form of conspiracy despite clear evidence that there is foul play. Group two believes any minor opinion on the Internet or any random theory they want to be true, denying evidence to the contrary. How about the truth lies somewhere in the middle? Covid as many others have stated is a clear indicator that some conspiracy theories simply need time to be proven to be true. I know that hurts so many people to admit that they were wrong. I hope chemtrails are literally nothing but also unfortunately for the powers that be I have eyes. Think for yourselves.

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No-Mirror-5240@reddit

This is what they are spraying on us people any of these symptoms ring a bell?

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No-Mirror-5240@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/y71cp1rhagng1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b613f91b371b1464452dbdcb10099422be710e9 Caught this monster trail while on ft with the fiance

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No-Mirror-5240@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/hty0crneagng1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b063f970461d0bcbf9cfa2983b7afa9c49c013a2

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No-Mirror-5240@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/ukvoh56dagng1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7118cecdafa735775b8dd2be9757f2125923cde

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No-Mirror-5240@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/0enszlh7agng1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65b4388a634e892b34328c369a40b973c30f1773 Not normal guys this is IOWA

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No-Mirror-5240@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/87qduvr49gng1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9204fa2f616e010d645b3d455fdaf183a3f779d4 They literally said they’re trying to dim the sun they straight up told yall to your faces what they’re doing and have been doing for years it’s just gotten visibly worse since Covid while we were tucked away in our comfort zone

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SilverBirch75@reddit

Airplanes aren’t real !!

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Specialist_Spray4625@reddit

Explain 😂

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YragNitram1956@reddit

It is not the only thing! The average American is a gun toting, neoliberal, bear shooting, death penalty supporting, misogynist, who believe that LGBT people should be stoned to death old testament style, a white supremacist, anti-vaccine, climate change denying, anti-evolution, anti- science, flat earth believing, pro-life, anti- intellectual, sanctimonious evangelical Christian, Islamophobic bigot. Chem trail obsessive, xenophobic and probably a racist, Ignorant, stupid and possibly demented. https://preview.redd.it/objevkewfmkg1.jpeg?width=223&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aebc5add4d0250c18dd9f31ce4422fbbabe10b58

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Alternative_Week_117@reddit

People also made fun of the theory of the elite being into child sex trafficking so.... I tend to have an open mind to such things.

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

Think it was the idea of them all meeting under a pizza parlour that everyone was laughing at - Epsteins actually the best example yet of how atrociously bad at keeping secrets even the genuine conspiracies are.

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WackyAndCorny@reddit

In a basement that didn’t actually exist.

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

Come now, do we actually know that? THEY could have changed the architectural plans...

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R-Mutt1@reddit

One could easily swap round the alleged perpetrators of a range of conspiracies and find swathes of news deniers and believers

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Alternative_Week_117@reddit

And your point is?

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New_Line4049@reddit

Aeroplane engines emit water vapour and combustion fumes. These things are both chemicals. Nuff said.

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Chimpy20@reddit

The mind blowing thing with these kind of conspiracy theories is that *if* they were a big cover up, the scale of it, and the number of people involved, and that none of those huge number if individuals spill the beans, is simply implausible in itself.

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JonRoberts87@reddit

Yeah, its like the flat earth stuff. That would involve so many different agencies from different countries to all be in on it. Countries who have been to war with each other, who aren't on friendly terms all putting aside their differences just to convince everyone the world is round Or faking the moon landing, it would have to have involved so many different people, someone somewhere would have said something by now. Plus, rival countries in the space race trying to discredit the US, by proving they didnt actually go It just makes no sense.

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pajamakitten@reddit

That Netflix documentary on flat-earthers even proved them wrong. The flat-earthers themselves did an experiment that would prove if the world was round or not and, unsurprisingly, it worked. They just dismissed the experiment and said they must have got the co-ordinates wrong.

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Charming_Advice_2933@reddit

Was that the 'light on a ladder' experiment where they understood what the outcome must mean but were perplexed at why they got that outcome because, clearly, they couldn't be wrong?

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hirosknight@reddit

Considering the Saturn rockets were launched in front of the whole world and would have been capable of reaching the moon, it'd probably have cost more to fake the moon landing than to simply go there. And if America did fake the moon landing, the soviets could very easily prove that, and would have been incentivised to do so

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flashfloodofbutler@reddit

I always enjoy the joke that they got Kubrick to fake the moon landings, but due to his perfectionism, he insisted on filming on location.

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IndigoQuantum@reddit

There's a sketch from Mitchell and Webb's old show where they're planning to fake the moon landings, but realise it's going to be just as complex and cost just as much as actually landing on the moon, with faking it also incurring additional costs for the catering.

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Dabonthebees420@reddit

I watched a debunking video a few years ago - at the time it would have been more expensive and technologically impressive to fake the moon landing than it was to actually do a moon landing. Never mind the fact that reflectors were left on the moon that you can tag if you have a powerful enough laser.

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ProofLegitimate9990@reddit

This is what i always try to explain, its always the “elites” pulling the strings like there’s some shadowy collective of people. The problem is the more money, power and control someone has the more individual their motives. Do people really think billionaires gates, elon musk putin have the same objectives? It also makes me chuckle when people say its “the government” controlling everything, the government is just a group of people each with their own ideas and agendas that aren’t necessarily aligned. Conspiracy theorists should get 15 people in a room and try and order one type of pizza to see what im saying lol.

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DeifniteProfessional@reddit

The lack of outrage at uncovered CIA plots, the Epstein stuff, etc. really speaks out to say that the majority of people don't care enough that a lot of big conspiracies could well happen without needing a cover up, the average man instinctively doesn't believe it and ignores it.

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Chimpy20@reddit

For sure, there are genuine cover-ups that get missed for decades. But eventually it all comes out, and there is hard evidence when that happens. This is different, I think, to people seeing cover-ups where none exist, though.

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R-Mutt1@reddit

So what you're saying is if a cover-up (potentially of some heinous crime on a mass scale by a nation against its own citizens such as those perpetrated by the CIA or FSB) doesn't get leaked or declassified after the statutory period then it's just a conspiracy theory and you're best off steering clear of believing such things just in case? Schrödinger's Conspiracy...

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PartyPoison98@reddit

Even so, those massive conspiracies still comprise a *relatively* small amount of people. In particular with Epstein, the conspiracy was big but most people implicated likely only knew a small chunk of it themselves. Chemtrails would require entire industries of thousands of regular people to keep the secret with little incentive to do so.

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Gazcobain@reddit

Everyone knows Monica Lewinsky gave oral sex to Bill Clinton in the oval office, and that was despite only two people being there. Humans are objectively terrible at keeping secrets.

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Mr_Vacant@reddit

That and the fact that the people behind the conspiracy would be having the chemicals dumped on themselves and their own family members.

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That-Alternative-630@reddit

I used to work with a bloke who believed in this, specifically that they were used to control the weather. His reasoning was that there was always a plane flying overhead when the weather changed… We worked a few miles from an airport.

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Rare_Ad_649@reddit

What do these Chemtrails supposedly do? They reckon there's this huge global conspiracy to spray chemical over everyone, but as far as I can see there's no actual effects

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CannonousCrash@reddit

I am lead to believe that the Americans drop some chemicals in their upper atmosphere to assist with their radar detection, this comes from the stories during Operation Sky Sheild in the 60s where America asked its allies to simulate dropping a nuclear weapon in the US in order to test its self against a real threat. Cloud seeding is also a thing, Dubai or the UAE does it to encourage rain. The Chinese also did it so it wouldn't rain during their Olympics.

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Tuarangi@reddit

Cloud seeding and radar experimentation doesn't leave trails behind a commercial jet though, stuff like that is dismissed as part of the conspiracy

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CannonousCrash@reddit

That's where it stems from no?

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Tuarangi@reddit

Nah as cloud seeding has been theorised for over 130 years and has been practically used for over 80, while the US has openly tested and reported in journals attempts to reduce the power of hurricanes. It's what it sounds like - they go into clouds and dump stuff. The chem trail nonsense can only be traced back to about 1996 and relates to effectively creating clouds (or trails). Cloud seeding wasn't some secret project, it's been widely used, discussed and published in journals on how it works

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CannonousCrash@reddit

Thats not what I meant. If there is documented proof of governments placing chemicals into the atmosphere for radar detection and cloud seeding. On that basis, people who pulled on the string too much are now stuck believing that all jet aircraft intentionally dump chemicals into the atmosphere that aren't products of combustion? I do love how people in this thread, not yourself Tuarangi, are quick to jump on someone who believes or even theorises that possibility of governments doing something nefarious whilst keeping it a secret from the population.

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Tuarangi@reddit

Again there are two distinct things here Cloud seeding, an open, well documented and thoroughly researched project which governments do and tell people, distributed by specialist planes equipped with dispersers Chem trails, an idea that commercial planes fly around dumping chemicals which are left behind in blatantly obvious fashion and demonstrably are nothing like cloud seeding Believing one somehow proves the other is plausible is nonsense and anyone who believes that shouldn't be considered sensible

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CannonousCrash@reddit

I never said believing in one makes the other plausible, I said given there is proof of chemicals being sprayed in the air has lead to people believing that the vapour trails from aircraft are the same.

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worldworn@reddit

Some people don't understand correlation. This happens so it **must** mean it's caused by this.

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Muted-Landscape-2717@reddit

I have a conspiracy theory. It's that governments actively provoke and promote conspiracy theories. It therefore keeps people from looking at the real corruption of elites and corporate world and politicians. Get people busy chasing false leads. Others have turned it into a grift.

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SplitJugular@reddit

The whole chem trails thing is a wide net. At one end there's the people that believe they are spraying stuff in the airport dumb us down (for no end game reason it seems) But at the other end of the scale cloud seeding is genuinely a thing that is done. So it's not beyond reason to assume the government's of the world are testing out some other stuff aswell

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theRicicle@reddit

But…but….Joe Rogan had a guy on…..

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MaxMouseOCX@reddit

No, because there's far easier and more covert ways for a government to introduce chemical agents, using planes to disperse it as mist, ok great... Why not just put it in the bloody water supply?!

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mozzystar@reddit

In the US we’ve got another theory (that any level of flouridation is toxic) that covers the water supply.

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MaxMouseOCX@reddit

>in the US Uh hu... Fair enough.

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mozzystar@reddit

Yup. But maybe there is something in the water supply given the collective idiocy here

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Dabonthebees420@reddit

My Mum is like this, irony is she'll talk about how the govt is trying to poison everyone... While chain smoking Mayfair Blues. No she doesn't see the irony there

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MaxMouseOCX@reddit

Play devil's advocate with her... "ok let's say the government IS trying to poison everyone... Don't you think there are far easier and cheaper ways to do that than to fly a plane over the country visibly spraying chemicals?"

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Dabonthebees420@reddit

Aha believe me, I tried everything with her - Once someone is in that deep they can't be shifted.

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gagagagaNope@reddit

And given planes fly over many countries, and refuel in many different places, it would have to be a truly *global* conspiracy. Eeek, i've just given them ideas, haven't I?

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Over_Bend_9839@reddit

I work for the aviation authority. We have to publish a ‘please stop calling us about it, it isn’t true’ message about every 10 years. I’m sure there are conspiracies, but they’re crap like poor judicial response to systemic crime or whatever. They’re definitely not chemtrails.

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Sir_Edna_Bucket@reddit

Yes I do, because I know the planes are pumping out copious quantities of dihydrogen monoxide, and you aren't going to change my mind.

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cfrizzadydiz@reddit

Its a potent greenhouse gas! They are warming up the planet to force us to use electric cars with GPS tracking, subscriptions and remote kill switches!

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S3THI3@reddit

People will fall for this is they read this far down lol

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Low_Bandicoot2030@reddit

There is no logical reasoning behind any of the nonsense conspiracy theories. They just come about because someone believes the truth is too simple to be true, or that there must be some alterior motive, so they go about trying to put together a narrative that explains some observations while also fitting with other things they feel to be true. It's all basically a creative writing exercise with no basis in logic, and you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into , so just ignore them and move on.

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oli_ramsay@reddit

The government

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Dyrenforth@reddit

Of all the conspiracy theories I find this one the most ludicrous. I'm 62 and have seen vapour trails as long as I can remember. Some people really will believe any old nonsense.

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Pachyderminthegaff@reddit

There's a reason they put aluminum in jet fuel. https://www.sbs.com.au/language/indonesian/en/article/artificial-rain-cloud-seeding/wpj50cd6q https://patents.google.com/patent/US3061419A/en

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RhubarbSalty3588@reddit

My local social media conspiracists all seem to have a common failing in their thought process -They believe our governments to be massively incompetent (possibly right) yet they believe these governments to be capable of these massive cover ups that would require incredible competence.

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ArtAccomplished1651@reddit

i dont, but i know they do cloud seeding... wish theyd stop weve had enough wifes dad lvoes conspiracy stuff and believes most of them, doesnt let it bother his day to day life but mention something even remotely and you have a 4 hour documentary from him.

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mozzystar@reddit

My pilot friend labelled one of the switches in his prop plane “CHEM TRAIL” and at one of the crunchy festivals I used to attend had a comedy show where they sold mock cruise tickets to see the edge of Flat earth. Sometimes you just have to lean into it.

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mozzystar@reddit

Curious American with a question to add, around when did the chem trail nonsense take a hold in the UK? Like enough to be recognized by the general public? I’m asking because I’m fascinated with when/where particular theories start and how they spread. I feel like this one kind of peaked and fizzled out when Covid came along as better fodder, at least here. Is it talked about more there? Starting around 2006, I could throw a rock and hit a chemtrail idiot 50% of the time, and I assumed it was partly a feature of the California and Pacific Northwest crowd I found myself amongst, where many make a comfortable living in all the various branches of professional quackery. Hence my surprise when living abroad in Europe a few years later, my very rational, skeptical Swiss boyfriend asked me very earnestly what I thought about chem trails. (I assume some of these theories start in the US because -coupled with a healthy population that lack critical thinking skills - we also have a distant central government, massive military and unscrupulous tech sector with well-earned reputations for being less than trustworthy.)

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Dizzy-Okra-4816@reddit

The irony is that at least some folk who believe in chem trails will simultaneously deny climate breakdown — something that is accelerated in part due to what is actually being pumped out of planes.

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Fred776@reddit

People who believe in one conspiracy are prone to believe in others, even if they are inconsistent with each other. Climate change denial is effectively just another conspiracy theory. Once you start learning about the science and its history, the only way that "skepticism" remains plausible is if there is a huge international conspiracy involving tens of thousands of scientists, and many scientific organisations around the world.

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S3THI3@reddit

This is one thing that blurs the lines and makes discourse and progress more difficult. For example plenty of biologists and environment experts will agree that poor water management, soil health management and biodiversity are just as important if not more important than greenhouse gasses and carbon emissions in controlling or reversing the damage we've done, but capitalism and cronyism hasn't found a widespread way to blame, tax or monetise it. These people, who are being called conspiracy theorists aren't saying greenhouses gasses and carbon admissions aren't bad, but that the corporate side is pushing this agenda in one direction. I would obviously draw the line to say these aren't climate change deniers, however there are plenty of real and genuine conspiracies and examples of deep seeded corruption that get swept under the rug along with actual bullshit by just calling it conspiracy.

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Radiants_Table@reddit

There’s usually a correlation with believers having smoked loads of tack, I find.

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CodeToManagement@reddit

It’s absolutely a condensation trail. I mean don’t get me wrong planes do give out emissions like co2 and other gasses. But they aren’t falling to the ground and turning everyone gay or whatever people want to believe

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mrbadger2000@reddit

Ha! Wouldn't YOU like to know!

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MrTubek@reddit

Well we can alway say to those people that chem trails are real this technology is called cloud seeding and they use it in Dubai!

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dereks63@reddit

Aircraft Tech here, it is absolute horse shit! Weight is paramount in Aircraft, why the fuck would you lug around 'chem trail' shit?. However I go on Twitter and say it's true, using pictures of aircraft ground servicing equipment as chems recharging. The pictures are of fuelling rigs, toilet emptying rigs, water filling rigs. It's fun.

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SpudAlmighty@reddit

I don't believe in the chemicals but there's something wrong with the condensation trails. The wife and I watched a few planes cross paths and the trails grew to the point it blotted out the sky with some thin clouds that smeared allover the sky.

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-captaindiabetes-@reddit

That's probably just cloud + contrails

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SpudAlmighty@reddit

It's the contrails blotting out the sun is where my problem lies.

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space_guy95@reddit

Can I ask what you would expect them to do if there weren't something wrong with them? Genuine question, not trying to catch you out or anything. Because there are plenty of days where the weather is just right to form high altitude thin wispy clouds that stay around all day, even without any contrails going through them. What is the difference?

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SpudAlmighty@reddit

Yes, but it affected the weather. That's the problem. We've seen multiple times. We live under a flight route and it's ruined many a nice day.

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Flumppoo@reddit

Can you imagine being that delusional? This conspiracy is so easily debunked.

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Beautiful-Ask-3814@reddit

Pizzagate has been proven to be real and you're questioning chem trails??? There's literally a documentary on Amazon prime where it's proven to be happening.. it's not a conspiracy theory anymore.

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ReditMcGogg@reddit

Know what we should be taking about? Shpoiders! They’re up to summit!

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smushs88@reddit

Do I think they are currently doing so, no. However, certain projects like that detailed below will continue to fuel the fire (and could actually lead to seeding in future) [BBC UK experiments link](https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/articles/c5ygydeqq08o)

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CongealedBeanKingdom@reddit

They don't understand how engines and exhausts work.

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DeifniteProfessional@reddit

I didn't then I did then I didn't and now I'm not sure. I 100% am happy to admit I believe in a handful of conspiracies because there's overwhelming evidence pointing towards it. A lot of them revolve around attributing malice to what others may call incompetence, usually around Government. But chemtrails? First I heard of them, it was people saying they are spraying shit to make the population dumb. I thought that's absolutely stupid. But then I heard the theory that actually it's cloud seeding. Cloud seeding is real, verifiable, and some Governments admit to actively doing it to change where it rains, or of course encourage clouds in certain areas to reduce sunlight. And if you think, there's a massive business in: A) Turning farming land into housing development B) large scale agriculture run by a handful of companies There's a case to be made that there's a non zero chance that someone, not necessarily Government, is trying to run private farmers out of business so they can vacuum up the land. The inheritance tax on farmers kinda edged me towards that. I'm not saying I'm fully believing in it but at some point you do need to consider there is malice, money does change hands that results in favours or preferred partners.

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

Building secret geoengineering tools, hiding them on planes and then secretly using them to change the climate so as to buy farmland at a discount would cost vastly more than just buying said land, and preventing anyone among the colossal numbers of people who would need to be involved from talking about it would be impossible.

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DeifniteProfessional@reddit

The tools aren't secret, weather manipulation has been a thing for some time, and funnily enough literally \*is\* generally spraying silver iodide from a plane, causing premature rain. Even writing it out I can't really say I believe in the reasoning behind it of course, but manipulating rain is still real :)

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

On a very local level like making it rain not on the Olympics, not on a wider scale though. And even then the impact is limited.

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space_guy95@reddit

Upvoting you because you're being downvoted for being one of the few *actually answering* the question asked rather than smugly talking about why everyone that believes it are idiots. Like I don't believe in chemtrails at all, but its so dumb to come to a thread specifically asking for chemtrail believers and downvote them for it.

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DeifniteProfessional@reddit

Thanks, I fully expected any answers not explicitly berating chemtrail conspiracies would get downvoted to oblivion unfortunately

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Sweet-Geologist9168@reddit

Non zero chance sounds vanishingly small, yet this would be an incredibly expensive and person heavy task, not least just producing and transporting all the chemicals. Plus less food equals higher costs - for everyone.

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spidertattootim@reddit

>There's a case to be made that there's a non zero chance that someone, not necessarily Government, is trying to run private farmers out of business so they can vacuum up the land If you know anything about how planning and development works in the UK, you would know the chance is close to zero, and then you're just dreaming up different fairy tales.

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Ok-Departments@reddit

"attributing malice to incompetence" is such a poetic description, I really love it.

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qazk@reddit

Well you can see the trails in the sky and they are clearly made of chemicals, there is not really that much to discuss.

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Sweet-Geologist9168@reddit

Water is made of chemicals mate

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

That's what They want you to think.

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SkankySandwich@reddit

I don't think you quite get the part of the chemtrail conspiracy. The idea is that the Government are either changing the climate (which cloud seeding is, so an element of truth at times but not to that which they are putting forward) or more commonly, using chemicals that change our brains which make us do what we are told by the Government. See also Covid jabs.

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IndigoQuantum@reddit

If it were true, could it even be classed as a conspiracy given that hundreds of thousands of people would have to be in on it? Surely there becomes a point that a secret is no longer a secret. My favourite rebuttal is to point out famous paintings from WWII that show aerial dogfights with vapour trails and ask why and who was doing the chem-trailing back then? Was their some agreement between the Allies and Axis powers that even when their pilots were fighting to the death, they'd still be collaborating in joint-subjugating the populations of whichever country they were dogfighting above?

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hirosknight@reddit

Ah yes, the AI photos and film that were being produced in 1940 😄

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Neither_Process_7847@reddit

They'll be dismissed as such anyway. Because They can do anything (except for hiding from those who know the Truth, of course...).

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fleapuppy@reddit

Well, you could quite easily use AI to create a “picture” of a dogfight that looks like it was taken in the 40s

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scriptkiddie1337@reddit

We aren't far off this. There's people on reddit who believe recent pictures are AI despite them doing the rounds on reddit before AI tools were mainstream

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Greedy-Mechanic-4932@reddit

Their typical response to this would be dropping of some form of nerve agent or toxin...

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burpless_cucumber@reddit

Chemtrails goes way back to usenet and the beginning of the worldwide web. It was popularized by Art Bell on his Coast to Coast AM radio show in the 90s. Also look up Morgellons, which is a supposed skin ailment caused by the government's nanotechnology chemtrails.

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DR_95_SuperBolDor@reddit

I'm not a proponent of the "chem trail" theory, but I used to drink with someone who is and he told me that he's seen a little pipe extend out of the wing of an aircraft he was on and spray stuff. He also used to go on about how they've tested the ground under where "chem trails" were sprayed and found all manner of stuff which shouldn't be there. He's also a fan of listening in to aircraft radios and has equipment to do so apparently. Apparently one time he saw a plane "doing a chem trail" so he tuned in and heard them say "shall we do another pass?" And the plane turned around and made another pass whilst "spraying." He told me he wished he'd managed to record it... There's the 'evidence' which I've heard. I'll let you judge the validity or reliability of it.

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Bemusedandscared@reddit

I am an airline pilot and I have had people come into the flight deck (when invited) and 'jokingly' ask where the chemtrails switch is. I've also had that one where they ask if we have to push the nose down every few minutes, because obviously if we don't then it's incontrovertible proof that the Earth is, in fact, flat. Who knew, eh?

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DefinitelyNotEmu@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/gntl014zw2kg1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=74b723adf0060e8ecdea120ec400e4b361d6188f

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mellonians@reddit

No one who believes in chemtrails has bothered to get a job as an aeroplane mechanic to prove it.

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OkTask9452@reddit

Yes, I believe in chem trails because I am a moron.

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Maleficent-Reply1607@reddit

Just google "can i pay for a rain free wedding?" and you'll be suprised about how much our governments control the weather. I don't know much about the chemtrails hypothesis though hut i wouldn't rule it out.

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mountainousbarbarian@reddit

Cloud seeding has been around for a very long time, it works but is controversial as it involves spraying large amounts of silver iodide into the atmosphere.

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Maleficent-Reply1607@reddit

So i guess it comes down whether you count "spraying large amounts of silver iodide into the atmosphere" as chemtrails.

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mountainousbarbarian@reddit

Cloud seeding is done openly over certain regions at certain times when rain is required, not all governments do it. That doesn't really gel with chemtrails, which are alleged to be covert and nefarious.

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Maleficent-Reply1607@reddit

So what about the opposite of cloud seeding? Millionaires being able to pay to have a sunny day just because they can? How do you justify those chemicals being sprayed?

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mountainousbarbarian@reddit

So if you seed clouds in one area, it means the clouds don't form in another area, as air can only hold a set amount of water vapour. >How do you justify those chemicals being sprayed? If people want to blow large amounts of money on dubious projects, who am I to stop them?

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Maleficent-Reply1607@reddit

So you're saying they don't actually give you a sunny day, they basically fuck everyone else over around you and your sunny day is a bi-product? And it's not a question of who are you to stop them it's a question of would people consider spraying dangerous chemicals into the atmosphere for their own benefit/amusement as chem trails? And the answer is probably yes.

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mountainousbarbarian@reddit

The issue with chemtrails is the scope of the conspiracy. It would involve millions of people, including airside staff on £13 an hour who don't give a fuck. Cloud seeding involves a few blokes in a crop duster with tanks fitted, it's not the same scale.

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AndromedaDependency@reddit

That's the same as cloud seeding, they just seed the sky on the days running up to the one they pay to be sunny. It's not 100% guaranteed to work

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SkankySandwich@reddit

It's different though. People are saying that every contrail is chemicals designed to make us subservient to Government.

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AndromedaDependency@reddit

There's a lot of other stuff that is used for cloud seeding too, potassium iodide, salt, even propane

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assorted_chalks@reddit

When lockdown happened and there weren’t any planes flying over I noticed I didn’t get as many headaches, and I felt more alive… like I wasn’t being subdued. Now the planes are back I’m just plodding through life again

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SpaTowner@reddit

That’s hardly the only change you would have experienced at that time though?

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hairlikebrianmay@reddit

I don't believe there are such things as conspiracy theories. We are having the wool pulled over our eyes by those who want us to believe that conspiracy theories are real.

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R-Mutt1@reddit

Bit of an extreme position, although Roswell was an example of this

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hairlikebrianmay@reddit

Ahhh I'll suppose I will have to explain my "joke" The joke was that I don't beleive in conspiracy theories and the gave an example of conspiracy theory that I believed in. Oh well.

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Ok-Individual420@reddit

The trouble with some of these theories is there can be the smallest amount of truth misunderstood or deliberately twisted to get the desired response of them being superior for knowing such thing. Cloud seeding has been a thing for years so they run with a little bit of info then vague the shit out of all their examples.

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VoidPulse11@reddit

Because they are real. 🤣

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-captaindiabetes-@reddit

Well of course they're a real thing, but that isn't what the conspiracy theory is about

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nonoanddefinitelyno@reddit

I have a friend who is convinced they are a thing. Utterly convinced. She's a 58 year old Lawyer.

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CoffeeIgnoramus@reddit

That's worrying when people who are supposedly some of the most intelligent people can't figure out that it would be utterly impossible to hide this and easily provable. Yet they spend their lives thinking they are the only trustworthy human around. The only person capable of just wanting to do their best. They assume everyone around them is evil.

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Objective_Quiet_751@reddit

I'm sure intelligent lawyers exist but every lawyer I know personally is spectacularly thick relative to expectations.

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R2-Scotia@reddit

I notice chem trails are only used on humid / wet days

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johnlewisdesign@reddit

Believing in chem trails is a bit of a flawed generalisation when there is proven cloud seeding. I even saw a UKgovernment document on their own website mentioning using it for some reason, like a royal occasion. I have the PDF on an archive from about 2009 and it was an old document then. Also the UAE cloud seed regularly. So I believe in that. Because it *exists,* in fact has done probably for a good century. But that's not to be confused with CONtrails, which people are incorrectly assuming are the same thing. Your post should be called something like 'why to people believe contrails are chemtrails'...

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psyper76@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/le58c3sb42kg1.png?width=314&format=png&auto=webp&s=e69015a9287f3ce7cebd0d641f5a6a9c1d2e5bed I like XKCD's hobby of playing conspiracy theories off of each other. During covid there was someone I knew that was all its and inside-job etc so I played it off him and said thats not what I heard. I heard they fucked up on the amount of chemicals they put in the chemtrails and that is why they told everyone all over the world that they need to stay indoors and keep human contact to a minimum. Thats also why we needed to wear masks when outside and why all the commercial flights had been closed down so they can replace the chemicals while no one was watching.

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AndromedaDependency@reddit

I'm open minded on this one. There was a summer around 9 or 10 years ago when the conspiracy became popular, during that summer the trails left by planes were very long lasting that appeared to spread out and merge into each other. The sky was filled with them in certain areas. Recent summers it seems that trails left by planes have gone back to normal. Why or how I don't know, maybe there was something special about the atmosphere in that summer that caused the regular trails to behave that way but I haven't been convinced either way so I remain open minded

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Chimpy20@reddit

It still happens some days - especially in summer it seems - where the sky is almost covered in criss-crossed vapour trails that linger all day. My understanding is that the humidity, temperature and pressure affect how long the moisture remains.

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R-Mutt1@reddit

No but surely the conspirators breathe the same air

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Brilliant-Second5749@reddit

Stupidity?

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adreddit298@reddit

'Reasoning' implies rational thought. Belief in chem trails, like any nonsense, is based on irrational thought.

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Krismusic1@reddit

Just ask them why the"elite" is doing this. What advantage is there in screwing with the weather?

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IndigoQuantum@reddit

It's so the Rothschilds can win every award at village fete flower and vegetable competitions.

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Krismusic1@reddit

I can see that is an incentive!

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Visa5e@reddit

Also, if its being sprayed from planes, wouldnt the elite be affected as well?

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Krismusic1@reddit

Exactly!

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IainMCool@reddit

Melon Husk and Zuckerberg do seem to be trying to promote unhinged nutjobs. Any time I do anything on their hell sites I have this shite appear in my feed constantly. It's actually quite worrying.

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axelzr@reddit

People still think the earth is flat, man never landed on the moon, Covid spread by 5g mobile masts, the list goes on…

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TapeDeckSlick@reddit

Brain damage

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Special-Audience-426@reddit

Not in the way you mention but some places in the world do cloud seeding to make it rain so I suppose those would actually be chem trails.

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Baseyg@reddit

As someone who alongside aeroplane techs, the biggest hole in the conspiracy is the supposedly sworn secrecy of this group.

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DameKumquat@reddit

I used to deal with letters from chemtrail believers for work. Some were general conspiracy theorists, but one guy was lovely and coherent, except for being convinced chemtrails were made of plastic. He had some 'evidence' for why they weren't just water vapour like other clouds, and needed acid to dissolve them, which was bad for the atmosphere and thus he had to tell me about it...

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thierry_ennui_@reddit

Nobody actually believes in them. What they actually believe is that appearing to believe in chem trails makes them seem interesting and attractive. It doesn't.

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Obvious-Water569@reddit

I believe in them because I'll make anyting Joe Rogan says my whole personality.

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dez-gosting@reddit

Well I didn't turn bright green from eating cucumber & celery, that's for sure.

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