Aw bless you I’m glad to hear

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meadowender@reddit

Thanks, it was a rough few years but all good now

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Tarjhan@reddit

This is pretty much it. Everything becomes a cost/benefit analysis even eating every day becomes negotiable. Owned or free media is the order of the day. Frugal wins out over healthy. Things break and you either manage to fix them or just learn to live without them. You have hot water day when the water heater gets turned on. You wear extra layers because there isn’t a heating day. You learn to like black coffee. Then coffee without sugar, then water. You trim the mouldy bits off the bread. An oxo cube is sauce for your pasta. A fresh apple becomes a treat that you share. Sofas are turned out for change. Walking is the only option, no matter the weather, no matter the distance. Shoes get taped up.

And you get deeper into debt as the bills mount up and you can’t cover them.

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TD_Meri@reddit

I’m a working single parent and this is even true for me. I rely on food banks, i eat one meal a day, I can’t afford to heat the house, I regularly run out of gas and can’t afford to put credit in the meter so towards the end of the month we’re washing using kettles for hot water. If anything breaks, it stays broken and doesn’t get replaced. It’s half term and we’re still in bed because it’s the only way to keep warm. People say you’re better off working but it’s not true. If I didn’t work all my rent and council tax would be paid. The government do crisis loans and budgeting loans for people who don’t work. People like me can’t access anything like that. Life is miserable and my kid is missing out on so much because I can’t afford to pay for any of the things her school offers.

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IllPen8707@reddit

Revealed preference is a bitch. If you're really better off not working, then what stops you quitting your job?

I'm glad I get to see ai videos of cats though!

You send your 12 kids to work down the mines whilst you forage for nettles by the side of the road to make nettle soup for dinner.

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mountainousbarbarian@reddit

Then coffee without sugar, then water.

Coffee without water is laying it on a bit thick, don't you think?

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Mild_Karate_Chop@reddit

They obviously meant only water ...

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78Anonymous@reddit

😂 other way round .. nignog 😆 thanks for the laugh

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Very funny.

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LuHamster@reddit

All this is sad and so dumb on a long-term scale because you then end up with a really unhealthy and sickly population that needs the state to spend more looking after them because the safety net was so poor.

Like they could easily save millions if they funded healthy affordable food for people, access to free or reduced leisure activities like they do in other countries, etc

The way the UK goes about benefits is so fucking backwards and it makes me so mad.

Now living in Asia I see how fucking asinine and dumb some policies are in the UK that just help no one and exacerbate problems like this.

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dread1961@reddit

You can just imagine the headlines;

JOBLESS TO GET FREE NOSH! SCROUNGERS CHARTER SEES SHIRKERS EAT BETTER THAN WORKING PEOPLE.

Puzzleheaded-Web1519@reddit

That’s such a tragic way to have to exist.

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tall_chris89@reddit

This is the answer, for me ever spare pound is held tightly so that I can make sure my kids dont know things are hard. We do fun and exciting things as free as possible and I spend when I need to so they have the best weekends I can give them.

Some tricks help. Buy a day of travel insurance for a few quid from meerkat and get a year of meerkat movies so cinema doesnt break the bank. Too good to go packs from Aldi can be a great boost too especially if you can split them with someone. My last one had 3 loafs in it I froze one and gave away another.

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excitablegibben@reddit

I went from working 70 hour weeks in a fast paced kitchen to some arteries popping in my brain and now this is my life with no end in site.

I've lost 3 stone in 2 years. I'm playing games my friend buys and shares with me. I should get rid of my dog but I just can't do it.

It becomes a routine of cutting costs and passing time until something changes

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whooptheretis@reddit

they stay inside most of the time not really doing anything

I actually do apologise for the "grow up" comment. It was unnecessary.

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Inside_Swimming9552@reddit

Very gentlemanly of you. I appreciate you coming back and saying that even if we might not agree on the subject matter.

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malin7@reddit

How would UBI even work, genuine question

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Green-Caregiver416@reddit

What do you mean? It’s quite self explanatory. Everyone gets an allowance regardless of work status or what you earn.

The theory is it will allow people to work in roles they actually want to even if they don’t pay as well. People will have more to spend so businesses should do better. Takes away the bureaucracy of welfare too having to means test some of it. And we have something like 24,000,000 already on welfare so why not just give it to everyone at this point

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You are looking at the wrong thing there to compare the theory of a thought out UBI with. Covid was a complete whirlwind and they were throwing billions at individuals/businesses/nhs/fraud etc. listen to even Rishi Sunak discuss it and admit they didn’t have time to think any of it through

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Any_Flight5404@reddit

Regardless. If we just handed out an extra £20k a year to every citizen, it would just drive up inflation, and the vast majority of people wouldn't really feel any better off.

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Green-Caregiver416@reddit

You’re assuming the only thing to change would be printing money to fund it whilst all other government spend and taxation system stays the same. It’s a very dismissive mindset you have for something that realistically may become inevitable if the experts in AI are to be believed. As I can guarantee businesses won’t continue employing humans from the good of their heart if AI can do the jobs of tens of millions.

UBI and a bit taxation overhaul doesn’t guarantee inflation

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Any_Flight5404@reddit

As I can guarantee businesses won’t continue employing humans from the good of their heart if AI can do the jobs of tens of millions.

In some states in the US the most common job role is a professional driver in some capacity. We could very well see the snowball really start rolling from there.

If you're a coper who defines yourself by being a wage slave for the rest of your life then nothing I say will convince you.

But from where I'm sitting those who think human employment should remain as high as possible are calling for long term harm for short term gains.

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Ryanhussain14@reddit

"Wage slavery" is just how human civilisation has worked for tens of thousands of years. The UK has plenty of work to do, roads have holes in them, town centres look drab, there is litter on the streets, we need to decouple from fossil fuels, etc. This idea that British people are becoming unemployed because we are becoming obseolete is laughable, the tractor didn't make us live a work-free utopia, we just moved to factories, and then services after that.

The only reason we have an employment crisis is that governments across the world have lost the plot and decided to wage tariff wars and tax the shit out of employers and overregulate our tech industries when we should be taking advantage of booms.

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Any_Flight5404@reddit

Well obviously if I believed the mass employment would last decades before UBI is implemented like you believe I wouldn't want it.

Well, that's exactly what will happen. What political party in the UK is for UBI? Name one? They don't exist. How would UBI benefit billionaires who fund the campaigns through donations to political parties? It wouldn't. There is no political incentive for a UBI, and it would take decades.

In some states in the US the most common job role is a professional driver in some capacity. We could very well see the snowball really start rolling from there.

Yes, that's mass unemployment with millions scraping by on benefits/in poverty. Not some utopia where no one has to work, and we all have everything we need. Also, the higher the poverty and unemployment rate, the more crime there will be.

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Inside_Swimming9552@reddit

Yes no party has this as a policy because there's currently no need for it. If it got bad enough quickly enough labour could enact it themselves.

Yes but you believe the mass employment will happen over decades slowly and painful. I believe it will be quick and like ripping off a stubborn plaster.

As I said there's no point in arguing with you. You've made up your minds and will keep moving the goal posts of the argument in perpetuity as you just have. "Oh but UBI policies or promises don't currently exist" when did I say they did?

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mountainousbarbarian@reddit

since Covid

Since before the end of the Cold War and accelerating at a rapid pace since it ended. When the workers of the world have proven that, even if they unite, they'll fuck it all up eventually, you don't need to throw them more than crusts.

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-Incubation-@reddit

Whilst I get the frustration, the way the system operates is that you are ALWAYS better off in work than relying on just UC, where many are already in employment as it is not just for those out of work and instead combines several benefits under one system.

A couple over 25 receives £628.10 a month, if you qualify for help with your rent, you are only entitled to the Shared Housing Rate of your area if under 35 or not in receipt of PI, as an example for my area this is £540. A 1 bed is minimum £1100+. Just based on these figures, you'll have £1168 for both of you in a couple - which would then need to include all outgoings like utilities, food, council tax, the shortfall of your rent etc.

Unless you're assessed as unfit for work, a carer or have a child under 3, you have full work seeking commitments of 35 hours a week.

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Lemon-Flower-744@reddit

I can relate to this. My husband and I have good salaries but we are having to watch our pennies a bit more.

The thing that gets me the most is - my husband and I's food shop for the week, it makes my eyes water. I don't even think we get or shop anywhere extravagant! We food prep, we try and buy seasonal fruit and veg so it's cheaper, we make a note of how much our food bill was for the week and see where we can reduce from the bill but I honestly can't see how. We even go to Lidl or Aldi for cheaper coffee or essentials. Our main shop is in Tesco cause of the club card (people can say it's a scam but I like Tesco).

In another sub reddit, I saw a meme that said (granted I'm not actually buying these things but it shows the issue) - Box of Special K - £4.25 Coffee - £8 Beef mince - £7.10 Salmon - £8 £27.35 for just four items that makes it so unaffordable for millions of people!

One of my friends earns like £32k, she has to commute to London every weekday. How she affords the train tickets to go in is insanity.

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Nowitcandie@reddit

If you really believe this go ahead and give it a try. Reality will quickly bite.

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KEW95@reddit

You really aren’t better off not working. You’re struggling WITH decent salaries, so imagine how much more you’d be struggling without them.

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SadSeiko@reddit

just look around in this thread, the government doesn't help

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Green-Caregiver416@reddit

I think the welfare bill is too high, but if you think that why do you work? It is frustrating how many people say you’re better off not working and yet still work. You’re clearly not better off.

Have you gone through the benefits calculators to see what you're eligible for?

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gameofgroans_@reddit

I haven’t yet tbh for a couple reasons. One I keep thinking oh next week I’ll get something. I’ve also got some deep seated embarrassment for claiming anything - which I know is ridiculous and I wouldn’t think this about anyone else. Got parents that have been staunchly against it forever and don’t understand why I don’t ’just get a job’. I just feel so burnt out from it all I’m trying to bury my head which isn’t helpful obviously - but you’re right I will try and take a look today.

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sy_core@reddit

If I lost my job now, the government would give me close to nothing, because of the small amount of savings I have, they would look at it and say I'm too wealthy to claim anything.

This actually made me well up a bit. Thank you so much.

Honestly I hate that I have this mindset because I agree you should claim everything you can because it’s not your fault and it’s an awful situation. I just always feel like I could be better. Probably because I’m still coming to terms with an autism and adhd diagnosis that was diagnosed just before my redundancy (work didn’t know so no bias). It’s been a heavy few months and I do deserve to have some positives.

Look at it the other way, there are plenty of people who do not have a partner or a indeed a partner with savings/decent job.

Because they DO have acess to the savings and money he earns

"we moved in together because I lost my job and it was a necessity to stop me and my dog from being homeless"

^ that's the governments view that yes she has the access because he's now paying the rent and housing that her benefits would be intended to cover.

If she moved out she would be entitled to emergancy housing and thd benefits as she would need them but atm her family unit is paying for that stuff.

The idea is largley to stop comfortable single income households of housewifes/husbands just claiming benefits because they can.

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-Incubation-@reddit

The added bonus (/s) is that if two people are disabled and unable to work, only one person will qualify for the payment which if they lived separate, they would both qualify for the payment in their own right.

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Greedy-Mechanic-4932@reddit

They don't assess you individually for income. They look at the income and savings of every adult in the household. If you don't declare any, you risk being prosecuted for fraud.

Expected expenditure is based on figures that haven't changed for the best part of a decade IIRC. You've an "allowance" per adult/child for food, clothes and childcare, and then a household allowance for council tax, rent/mortgage, utilities etc.

They assess the weekly income vs the expenditure permitted, and if income is greater than it's pretty much "tough shit".

You're permitted an amount of savings before they start deducting any potential benefits (and it's something like losing 45p/£1 of your benefits for every £250 over the threshold).

They also factor in disability benefits into the income, too. So I, for example, get UC deductions because I'm an FT carer and receive Carer's Allowance. What I get paid for CA, I lose in UC. But by claiming CA, I can claim NICs towards a state pension, should I reach that age...

Because I'm claiming CA, though, I'm not entitled to JSA - even though I'm actively looking for work. But, I can work (and earn more than JSA) and claim CA, provided the earnings are not over the threshold (£140ish per week) and I still meet the 35hrs per week of caring.

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SoulBlightRaveLords@reddit

Its fucked my Mrs was without work for a while. I have money locked up in a stock ISA account and it can't be touched for 3 years. I physically cannot access this money at all until 2027 I think

They took that money into account and said she can't have JSA

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gameofgroans_@reddit

It’s the same with student loans, or at least it always was. My parents broke up when I was young and my mum remarried but has always worked PT. Because my stepdad earns a decent wage I got very little student loan but he didn’t support me in the way he would if he was my bio dad (not a dig at him, I know I could ask him for help but he’s got his own kids like).

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Nothin-on-the-telly@reddit

1)Access to his accounts (digital ) 2) they are living together therefore working partner should be supporting them both

Therefore saves Govt a fortune

Commercial-Throat107@reddit

Same here

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Level_Engineer@reddit

Surely you could have just said "I don't know how much he has" you could easily claim plausible deniability.

If I was him, I'd have told you not to disclose my savings and just pretent (plausibly) that I never told you, he is losing out on household income too.

Missed my point much. Who am I paying rent to after I sell my house to a young family?

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You sound very bitter and misinformed. Nobody should be paying your mortgage for you (you sound very entitled to even consider this) and you can choose who you sell your property to.

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Jassida@reddit

Worked all my life, owned a house, now have a small mortgage to upgrade. You know nothing about me via my criticism of what I perceive to be the current reality

Yes I can sell my house to whoever I want but what is the point of doing this to pay rent because I have lost my job?

I now potentially need my rent paying for me for the rest of my life

Why should a landlord get a tenant via the government just because they are on benefits

I’m talking about people like me here, worked all my life but pondering the possibilities of yet another financial crisis setting me back

I have never claimed benefits

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user_deleted_life@reddit

If you've not claimed, you didn't nt know what you're talking about

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Jassida@reddit

I never said I did, was responding to the sell then rent brigade

Interest on my mortgage? That’s like being offered the steam from your piss. What use is that?

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user_deleted_life@reddit

If you're out of work you can switch to an interest only payment plan, so it's if great use that means you don't have to sell and gives you more of an incentive to get back to work.

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sparklybeast@reddit

If I were forced to sell my house and rent instead, the rent would likely be around double my monthly mortgage costs. It makes absolutely no sense for the government to enforce this route as they'd be paying out so much more.

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jiggjuggj0gg@reddit

So why is it better for a landlords mortgage to be paid by the government indefinitely instead?

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Helloscottykitty@reddit

All discourse around this will have you feel a crab pull you into the bucket as you see the lader get pulled away above.

All issues an individual would have with this is resolved by simply the government claiming a percentage ownership of your house for how ever long you need the assistance. They then get the market value of that house back when you sell it or you can purchase this back at the market rate when circumstances improve.

But people are people so nothing like this will ever happen.

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Jassida@reddit

Miles better idea.

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Any_Flight5404@reddit

Why shouldn’t the government just pay my mortgage, it would be cheaper initially and one day my mortgage is paid off?

I have wondered this before. The government are happy to pay rent to a private landlord, which they are using to pay off their mortgage. So why is that acceptable?

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Jassida@reddit

Exactly and a mortgage is finite. I believe it’s to stop people abusing the system and the more plebes renting, the better

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user_deleted_life@reddit

What are you in about, no one is forced to sell to a landlord, regular people buy property to live in too.

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Radiant-Mycologist72@reddit

I've never followed it up, but I think you might get assistance to pay the interest on the mortgage.

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BeagleMadness@reddit

Ypu can. But it's a loan that covers some (but usually not all, since interest rates went up!) of your mortgage interest only. A lien is placed on the property and it must be repaid when you can afford to, or when you die/sell up and move. You still need to find the capital repayments/rest of the mortgage whilst in receipt of the support loan. Tricky when UC is such a pitiful amount anyway.

You also can't claim it for at least 13 weeks after getting UC/similar qualifying benefit. It was 39 weeks prior to Covid - not many mortgage companies would wait that long without payment! Being 13 weeks+ in arrears is panic inducing enough and leaves your credit rating wrecked for years afterwards.

If you’re living in social housing and in the appropriate level of occupancy, it will cover all of it. It will not if you’re living outside of social housing. You need to have a look at Local Housing Allowance Rates.

Not to mention, if you are living in Social Housing as a couple with no kids you’ll only be given the LHA for a one bedroom property, but the amount of one beds is completely disproportionate to need. Most homeless people who present to the council for housing are on waiting lists as priority above working couples and they get put in ‘temporary housing’ for up to two years whilst a one bedroom property becomes available.

This means working people and people on benefits are often forced to rent in the private market which is more expensive and also has minimal studio or one bed properties. So they end up in over inflated two beds and get a penalty for that.

For example, a two bedroom flat in my building is asking £900/month for rent (I know the landlord’s mortgage and outgoings of mortgage, maintenance charge and ground rent total £572/m btw).

‘It’s pretty cheap to sit inside and stare at walls all day’

Pretty clear why I thought you were talking about being at home and why I brought up the topic of rent.

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user_deleted_life@reddit

Fine go sit in the library. That's both indoors and free. 🖕

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Irrxlevance@reddit

Exactly this. So if you have a few savings for the bare necessities. You're ok. Till you're not

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Lower-Builder1584@reddit

When I was unemployed UC + housing benefit didn't even cover my rent, let alone bills etc so I had to get a bit creative to survive.

Shoplifting more expensive food items + abusing self checkouts. Maxed out credit cards and overdraft with no intention of paying back (obvs this one eventually bites quite hard but I've paid these off now I have money again, my credit rating is still a mess but it was either that or become homeless). I let a local dealer keep some things in my house for £50 a week. Sold any of my possessions that had any value.

It's bleak and there's no way to really survive without either turning to crime or putting yourself in uncomfortable/immoral situations. I have female friends who have picked up sex work in similar situations. If you have no safety net and are living in a big expensive city then it gets really desperate really quickly, especially if you have other health issues

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Amnesia_UK@reddit

As a retail employee, what you do is immoral (shoplifting) and affects us members of staff and customers alike.

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Lower-Builder1584@reddit

Unfortunately people do immoral things when they're desperate.

Polz34@reddit

The problem with this is the 'rainy day' fund needs to be used sometimes. I put 15% of my monthly earnings into savings - but I also have to annually pay for service charges/ground rent for my flat which is £500 in one go (which get's taken out the 'fund') - that's this month, then in March it's MOT/Car Service and Boiler service; which easily adds up to minimum of £500 and that's with no work on the car. So over two months there is £1k spend on items that only come once a year.

I get an annual bonus (generally around £1.5 k) which normally covers the above but this year my toilet broke/leaked and it cost £1.3 k to get it all sorted, so I got £200 left! Have to find the money somewhere so these funds aren't just added too they have to get money taken out too.

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CaterpillarLoud8071@reddit

Of course, that's the point of a rainy day fund. You keep adding to it so it hopefully covers all your emergency needs. But it'll never be failsafe.

For more info, please visit the Chase website:

https://chase.co.uk/raf

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Glittering_Vast938@reddit

It’s been worse:

Unemployment stats UK:

1979 5.4 % (Thatcher)

1980 6.8 %

1981 9.6 %

1982 10.7 %

1983 11.5 %

1984 11.8 %

1985 11.4 %

1986 11.3 %

1987 10.4 %

1988 8.6 %

1989 7.2 %

1990 7.1 %

1991 8.9 %

1992 9.9 %

1993 10.4 %

1994 9.5 %

1995 8.6 %

1996 - 8.1%

1997- 6.9% (Blair)

1998 - 6.2 %

1999 - 6 %

2000 - 5.4%

2001 - 5.1 %

2002 - 5.2 %

2003 - 5.0 %

2004 - 4.8 %

2005 - 4.8 %

2006 - 5.4 %

2007 - 5.3 %

2008 - 5.7 %

2009 - 7.6% (Worldwide Banking crisis)

2010 - 7.9 % (Cameron)

2011 8.1%

2012 7.9%

2013 7.6%

2014 6.2%

2015 5.4%

2016 4.9%

2017 4.4%

2018 4.1%

2019 3.8%

2020 4.6%

2021 4.6%

2022 3.8%

2023 4.1%

2024 4.3%

I was gunna say this, I had a couple friends who are unemployed but they always find a way to make money, wether illegal or not.

I don’t mean this in a bad way but just solely regarding the 2 people I know, if they out the effort they put into grafting as they did a job they wouldn’t have this problem

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whooptheretis@reddit

I had a couple of friends

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TheVentiLebowski@reddit

I had'a couple'a friends

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whooptheretis@reddit

UK could introduce additional unemployment insurance based on years worked. This is common in Europe. The problem is people in the UK (probably including you) don't want to pay the additional tax/social contributions that come with it.

People in the UK need to be willing to pay to the Government what Belgian and Germans pay to the Government on the median salary, if they want the same benefits.

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gagagagaNope@reddit

No more taxes.

We pay enough already - they highest level on record.

They need to cut the handouts to those who don't contribute,

As it stands, a graduate earning a bit over £50k (so only a smidge above average in London) already faces a marginal tax rate of 51% - that's Danish/German/Beligan levels of taxation without any of the services they get.

The welfare state was set up as a contribution based system, it needs to get back to that.

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Phronesis2000@reddit

As it stands, a graduate earning a bit over £50k (so only a smidge above average in London) already faces a marginal tax rate of 51%

Can you break that down? I can't see how anyone earning in the 50s pays more than a 42% marginal rate of tax and contributions combined.

Well the countries you list are quite different. Denmark — fair point. But Germany and Belgium are fairly debatable when you look at international comparisons of public services.

Where Germany, France, Belgium are clearly better is for the very poor who don't pay any tax, but you're not talking about that.

The welfare state was set up as a contribution based system, it needs to get back to that.

Contribution-based systems are not usually cheaper. Do you really want that 42 percent marginal rate going up to 48 percent when you are paying a contribution-based compulsory health insurance like in Germany?

The best systems are probably where you reduce the bureacuratic nonsense and just have a simple general taxation pool from which you fund everything, like NZ and to a lesser extent Australia.

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Slight_Horse9673@reddit

Can you break that down? I can't see how anyone earning in the 50s pays more than a 42% marginal rate of tax and contributions combined.

- Add 9% for the student loan (hence 'graduate') to 2% NI and 40% tax.

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gagagagaNope@reddit

That exactly 40%+2%+9% student loan (which is functionally a tax for 95% of people).

I say it's a tax - payments are related to earnings, not loan amount. It's like a loan in that you can pay it off to avoid it, but the percentage who do that (or pay it off at all) is incredibly low.

If you want a chat about £100k, what happens there is horrendous - marginal tax rates of over 100% if you're foolish enough to have had children. People are choosing to get paid less it's so punishing, it's utterly perverse. £100k used to be a lot, but it's middling manager money in a lot of industries.

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Phronesis2000@reddit

Yep, fair point about loans. I would include that as a tax. Though a temporary one I guess.

The thing is you can cherry-pick the point at which you get hit hardest in any country. Yes at just above 100k you get hit worse in the UK than in most European countries. But at 120k+ you will be better off in the UK.

And at any rate, there are lots of these 'extras' that apply to individual people in Europe as well. As a random example, in Germany once you hit 100,000 euros on top of your insane marginal tax rates (which continue forever, unlike student loan payments) you are now liable to contribute for any welfare-dependent parents you have.

So yeah we can chat about 50k, 100k, 60k or 120k at different price points. The uncontroversial point remains that a median earner from the UK pays less in compulsory tax and contributions than they do in Belgium, Netherlands, France, Germany. Use any calculator you like. Likewise the median upper quartile earner in the UK pays substantially less than elsewhere.

In short, tax rates are a red herring. The core problem is around housing and energy prices which do relate to govt policy, but not directly from tax policy.

As long as individual Brits think the path to riches is to buy and sell houses to eachother, the country is borked.

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gagagagaNope@reddit

The problem with £100k is that your take home cash actually goes down if you break that threshold, and with multiple children it can be over £137k before you recover.

That's truly perverse and unusual. It's not just an increase in marginal rate like the removal of personal allowance, it's a brick wall where 100% of the loss happens instantly and is not related to any further increase.

From a national revenue point of view it's insane. It's vindictive, inequitable, unfair.

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Phronesis2000@reddit

Yes, I understand the problem at £100k. And that is a ridiculous inefficiency in the tax system.

"That's truly perverse and unusual."

It isn't unusual. Almost all countries have that — a certain threshold above which you lose your entitlements and get a marginal rate of 100 percent+

As an example, in Germany, if your household hits a combined income income of 175,000 Euros, you lose ALL paid parental leave. Or, above 60,000, of privately insured for healthcare, your children lose the state subsidy immediately.

It's worse than the UK— pop one Euro over a threshold, and you will have a marginal tax rate of hundreds of percent.

So yeah, you intentionally chose a couple of specific pay points and profiles where people get screwed in the UK (graduates at 51k, people with kids at 100-130k). But you would have a worse story applying it in other countries.

"From a national revenue point of view it's insane. It's vindictive, inequitable, unfair."

The distinct UK problem, in my opinion (now living in Germany) is not wasted govt spending. That is a problem in EVERY European country. Your Belgian on the street paying 50 percent of their income to the govt is just as confused as to why their infrastructure is broken.

What makes it all worse in the UK is the cost of housing, both to purchase and rent, the cost of utilities, and the massive North/South divide which makes it hard to get well-paid jobs in the cheaper areas.

There are lots of reasons why that has happened, but one of the biggest issues is the speculation in the housing market. If individual wealth is built on people buying and selling houses to eachother you will get this issue, which is why things are just a bad in Canada and New Zealand (and kind-of Australia, but it gets around the problem by selling ore to China so people have higher salaries).

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Any_Flight5404@reddit

They've whacked up tax rates, business rates, red tape. The employment rights bill will be the nail in the coffin.

Immigration is the other issue - 5m people arrived in 5 years, many of whom will work off book for peanuts.

Three of the highest current costs are pensions, NHS and debt interest. Immigration is a very small portion of the government budget by comparison. 1/10th of all tax paid currently just goes on debt interest.

Any government that comes in will be stuck with the same problems, unless they cut/freeze pensions or make healthcare only available to those who can pay for it. The UK is doomed for at least another decade.

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LavishnessTiny3621@reddit

We really need to start looking at ourselves for change.

How we choose to spend our money is THE ONLY power we have, as citizens. It is the only thing that these big corporations and billionaires are sensitive to.

It is not just a theory, it has been shown many times, that these people will change things IMMEDIATELY when we fk with their bottom line.

Yet, we go just like to sit quietly and accept whatever shitty terms they throw at us.

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Fuzzy_Shape_4628@reddit

Fine idea BUT when your buying power cant pay the utilities let alone a bit of food, you kinda still don't have a choice. We need real change, rejoin Europe, abolish the billionaire monarchy and stop believing the sh*t the legacy media prints, owned by 3 billionaires who whilst working I paid more tax than.

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Lost-Personality-775@reddit

Basically you have to make it more expensive for them to ignore your demands than to give in to them

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LavishnessTiny3621@reddit

Exactly!

But it’s so hard for us all to be united.

So many in more comfortable positions will just see it as ‘not their fight’.

Just look at how they want AI to replace human jobs. It is not a billionaire doing the actual coding. It’s regular people helping these corps create it. The ramifications don’t concern these tech people, because they are paid very well for it. Just take a step back and see how that looks.

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mountainousbarbarian@reddit

The word ‘treacherous’ comes to mind, tbh.

Why? Treason is acting to overthrow a government, what does that have to do with economics?

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LavishnessTiny3621@reddit

There is a difference between treason and treachery.

All treason is treachery, but not all treachery is treason.

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CranberryMallet@reddit

Nothing but treachery and treason aren't the same thing, stop being pedantic.

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Fair_Bluejay_5488@reddit

I steal feom dumpster amd sell the items on vinted

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AcanthisittaFit1066@reddit

If you save something from landfill by taking it from the dumpster, is that really stealing? More like helping to save the environment....

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Razhbad@reddit

I don't know about now, because I am lucky enough to work. When I was a kid there was a small period probably around a few weeks or months, its difficult to be certain I was so young. Me and my brother would have like 1 meal a day, 6 days a week. We would visit my Grandma once a week to stay the entire day and during that day we would get a massive lunch and massive dinner. After this short period my mum could afford for us to have more meals, but she still had like only 1 meal a day.

Thing was it essentially changed my Mum's meals behavior forever, that time is like 30 years a go and even now where my Mum is financially alright, she still usually has 1 meal a day.

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callumrulz09@reddit

I haven’t had a job for about 6 months now. Savings gone, family unable to help.

I basically eat one meal a day, and that meal entirely depends on what’s in the (thankfully pretty extensive) reduced section in my coop or I batch meals with bits from Lidl.

I don’t leave the house anymore as I just associate leaving the house with spending money I don’t have.

I’m incredibly stressed and very depressed. I’ve been applying for multiple jobs a day and have only had 2 interviews, both of which were unsuccessful.

Bear in mind I have two degrees and 6+ years of professional experience.

Council tax, water, etc aren’t being paid so my credit score which was great is now just about fine.

It’s completely exhausting.

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Dismal-Record-487@reddit

I know this isn't ideal advice ebitneating one meal a day will absolutely keep you stressed and depressed to a much higher level .

I know lidl in the mornings do a £1.50 fruit and veg box it's great, about enough for a week for one person most the time.

Unethical pro life tip but need must. Order a large bag of rice from Amazon. Get on the customer service chat and tell them it came ripped in the box and can't use it . Contaminated and not safe to eat. They will refund you. Don't ask for a refund just explain. Say you have no money and what are you supposed to do. I guarantee a refund.

Many aren't.

I was fortunate to have been made homeless in my early twenties so that I now have a council flat, I'd not have been able to afford rent if I was a private renter.

I volunteered for a really cheap charity shop which helped with the cost of clothing - I also sold a lot of my things, and bought from the charity sop to resell too. I volunteered for various other charities which would often have some food provisions, although food bank and food panties were also used. I'd sometimes have to steal things like TP from public buildings. Avoid washing and doing laundry to save on the gas bills, bills for toiletries and detergent, etc. I don't have family but had a partner who would often pay for food that I'd prepare for us both.

No social life. I lost all my friends and wasn't able to make new friends, almost two years on work and that situation hasn't improved - on the plus side no social life is still saving me some money now too I guess.

I'd borrow money when I could, a constant juggling act borrowing from one thing to pay for another thing.

One big thing is people writing off their debt - I couldn't afford my utilities on ESA, companies wouldn't give me payment plans as debt was too high and I couldn't have a prepayment meter, so every few years I'd have to get a DRO. Effectively debts get passed on, economy goes backwards and it fucks everyone.

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NWarriload@reddit

Live with mom and dad …

This does piss me off no end - it should never be the case that anyone is worse off working than they would be not working.

Good on you for trying.

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Nowitcandie@reddit

Read the details, their situation concerned domestic violence. Housing benefit is capped for everyone else and rarely covers full rent unless it's a room in a HMO.

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John_0Neill@reddit

Mine didn't even cover that. I was paying £700 just for rent in Manchester in a 12 bed house with black mould, pretty much the cheapest I could find. When I was made redundant and went on job seekers allowance the max amount they would pay for my rent was 400, plus 200 living costs. So all together it was about £612 a month, which didn't even cover my rent, let alone bills, food etc..

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RealRelative9835@reddit

That seems extortionate for Manchester. Did you have particular requirements to push rent up? Even city centre (which I'd assume it can't be as 12 bed) can find cheaper including bills

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John_0Neill@reddit

No, when I moved in it was £650, the cheapest I could find in 2 weeks. That did include council tax and shit WiFi though.

Christ almighty, you live in a one bed flat in zone 2 in LONDON, no wonder you wont be better off doing minimum wage IN LONDON, youd be living in the arse end of zone 4 on min wage just to survive there.

I'm finding the same thing. Four years back business was great (self-employed) but now it's full on died I'm getting either more or an equivalent amount to what I was making the last few years of desperately working my arse off, depending on hubby's take-home each month.

Lost my job a couple of weeks ago (another chef that couldn't survive January, a cliche).

The same with warehouse jobs.

Also, people meme on foreigners come over to take err jerbs etc

Rude_Dependent_2934@reddit

Come and blitz my house once a week

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Urgulon7@reddit

And mine. You could make a business out of it.

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_solemn_cat_@reddit

It is something I'm starting to consider, I don't like cleaning my own house (mainly because I did a deep clean Monday and then the cats decided they wanted every single muddy puddle in the garden after I'd mopped and steamed the floors) but I do enjoy cleaning my friends!

My only issue is the transport side of things, husband uses the cat to get back & from work, unless he's away for work, in which case I have it. And then we're back to the I can't get a car because I can't even afford a cheap run around, as well as taxing & insuring it.. it's a vicious circle at the moment!

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BrightonBaby@reddit

Cat tax?

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_solemn_cat_@reddit

Spelling mistake on my part 😂

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BrightonBaby@reddit

No I mean if you mention the cat, you gotta pay the cat tax! Show us the kitties! 😻

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_solemn_cat_@reddit

prettytrapsoul@reddit

I’m chronically ILL and it’s getting worse. I’ve been looking for remote roles for years. I’ve gone in and out of physically work but can’t seem to last unfortunately.

I barely survive , I get PIP and UC but that’s to help me get to hospital appointments, medications , etc.

It really is hard and people think we’re just being lazy but honestly every single day I wish I could find work.

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Ok-Wedding-25@reddit

I mean I’ve always had a job. Regardless of pay per hour, the phrase work sets u free comes to mind. I couldn’t sit at home all day everyday doing nothing but watch daytime tv.

With this labour gov basically paying people just to sit at home and get more then what a full time retail worker gets, it just blows my mind

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SoulStuckInAthens@reddit

Moving back with parents and accepting the job market is fucked, is only going to get worse, and just... ride it out until something changes.

I only got my new job starting in March all thanks to my dad's connections. Before that I was searching on and off for 3 years. This new job is an hour and a half away, but my area is so barren and I can't drive by myself yet that I have no choice but to take the long 3 hour daily travel time.

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SpectralDinosaur@reddit

Eating through the savings that was supposed to be a deposit for a house.

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Strong-Wash-5378@reddit

Dog sitting dog walking vinted reselling hosting exchange students and living in extreme frugality

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Hannahmatopoeia247@reddit

New graduate, living with parents - only one of whom is earning. I'm on UC, spend every day looking for and applying for jobs, volunteer in my local community in other hours and otherwise - stay at home, doing the activities I already own. We're subsiding on one parent's life savings, which they need for their pension (coming close to retirement). We are surviving, but not living. Frugal showers, turn the boiler off every daytime, eat minimally and as cheaply as reasonable.

It's miserable, inescapable, and heartbreaking that my generation is being blamed for failing to get jobs when there are only 8 in the nearest city. All I get are rejections.

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Total_Aerie_3778@reddit

I’m employed but working part time as a Cleaner. It’s not a glamorous position but it’s money. Not enough to pay bills. There are jobs out there for cleaning positions, and while it’s tough sometimes it’s money for groceries, while one can search for positions.

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NiceAd4282@reddit

Driving for Amazon as delivery driver for 4 days a week, and job hunting studying ish rest of the times graduated from Durham last year (international student maybe that’s why). Brutal but I consider this as a learning and development phase 🫩.

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HobNob_Pack@reddit

Apply for everything.

You cant pick the job you want. Pick any job that will pay your bills.

That means manual work jobs. Jobs that aren't at a desk or work from home.

Also if you've got 'mental health' problems and you're going to interviews with woe is me type responses you're obviously not going to get picked.

Do you take someone who's going to get on with the job or someone who's going to cry half way through a shift?

You need to lie on your CV. Add bits of extra stuff that will help you get the job.

However many applications you're sending.. send more.

Last time the company i worked for lost a contract I applied to over 200 jobs from friday - Sunday alone.

If you actually want a job and you cant get one reply with your CV and what / how many jobs you've applied for

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massdebate159@reddit

I know that people genuinely struggle with it, but my brother gets more money than I do, but still mamages to scrounge off of me whenever he needs booze or weed.

I don't get it. All his rent and bills are paid for, but he's still always skint.

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istmh43@reddit

I hate it and it's extremely anxiety inducing. I've lost an enormous amount of motivation for the things I used to enjoy and the savings I spent a long time building are very quickly disappearing.

I left a job at a national newspaper last August by voluntary redundancy. I'm in my 20s, I no longer wanted to work in journalism and was more than happy to take a significant salary reduction to switch careers. If anything, I wish I'd taken a better look at the job market before leaving my job. I was perhaps slightly naïve in thinking I'd be back in employment by Christmas. But I don't think changing either of those aspects would have made much of a difference because the job market is so incredibly saturated.

All I set out to do was to find a job in which any of my transferrable skills from my journalism career were relevant. I spend most of my day applying for jobs while making sure I exercise. I ideally wanted something in the public sector but I'm now not in a position where I can choose. I'm also anxious about how I might cope going back into full-time employment, having spent the last six, nearly seven months not working.

I already had enormous sympathy for people who are long-term unemployed and my own experience has really reaffirmed that view.

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ZuneshaOnReddit@reddit

This was me from June-December, 2025. All my redundancy money went to bills over six months.

Thank God, I got a new role in December and am slowly rebuilding.

I got made redundant in Dec. First time ever.

£400 a month for food, clothing, heating, lighting and emergencies.

Everyday is an exercise try to keep yourself off the end of a rope.

I have a two bedroom but even tho I have a child, it's subject to the bedroom tax so I'm currently paying the shortfall (70 quid) out of my UC to keep a roof over my head.

I only found out yesterday you can apply for a discretionary payment to help with the bedroom tax.

And I have a 6 year old who I need to pay maintenance out of my £400.

And traveling costs to collect him from school 7 miles away twice a week.

To say it's hard is a massive understatement.

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Soulrot89@reddit

Its easy, move to a small town, rent a room for 500. Eat once a day, rice and potatoes. Dont ever leave the house, wash clothes once every 2 weeks, only brush teeth once a day. Shower every 2nd day. Fun times.

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Exact-Character313@reddit

They're blagging some stupid syndrome or something and going on permanent sick pay with no requirements to seek work.

Ever since they changed the definition of alcoholics and drug addictions to an "illness" and not a choice, even though everybody with a brain knows it's a choice, the numbers on permanent sick pay exploded.

Add to that all the gen z with this week's popular syndrome to have, imagined mental health issues and fast growing immigrant numbers. Then you have your explosion in people with zero intention of ever working.

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burnafterreading90@reddit

I never said you made it up. Very defensive of you though.

However you've out disabilities in quotes meaning you don't believe they actually have disabilities.

So somehow they have managed to get several doctors to forge documentation and provide fake appointments for them. That's impressive!

The amount of money you get for child benefits is pitiful so if they are spending it on holidays and living large I have to assume their children wear rags and regularly beg on the streets for food scraps, like dickensian urchins.

Also they claim benefits without ever visiting the job centre. I assume this is because they can't due to having their fake disabilities. It takes a lot of proof to not actually ever need to go in but it sounds like they have it!

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-Incubation-@reddit

Unless their children are under 3, have been assessed as fully unfit for work AND work related activities or have caring commitments (person/child who requires care has to be in receipt of PIP/DLA to qualify and only one carer per person/child), they would be expected to be attending the job centre.

10k does seem very far off as a figure that's even claimable, even with disabilities and children.

While I'm venting, two stories that were really the final straw for me: I made a serious effort last year to get out for daily walks. I live in a really poor part of a city that is very urban dense, all houses, big roads and industrial estates. Almost no green space. The one tiny bit of green space we have I made a point of walking through each day. But it was constantly covered in beer cans and massive piles of litter. People would eat and drink and smoke in the park and just leave all of the rubbish where they were sitting. It was absolutely covered. Depressing enough but I learned to ignore it. Until one day someone had decided to throw their cigarette butt onto an old stump and walk away. I saw the smoke as I came into the park and ran to it. This was along the main path cutting through the park and there were flames and smoke coming out of the stump. I watched at least 10 people walk past it and do absolutely nothing before I got there. I knew there was a shop across the road so I ran to that with my phone out to call 999 but also to see if I could grab a bottle of water and put it out before it spread. Told the guy there was a fire, looks outside and you can see the flames. Grabbed a bottle of water and he shouted at me to pay for it before leaving. I said I would come back, need to stop the fire first but he just got angry and shoved the card machine at me. I already had my phone out so I just paid and ran out. Again, another 3 or 4 people walked past it in the time this took and also did nothing. Dumped the whole bottle out and just about put it out. Stuck around for 10 minutes to make sure it didn't start again. Just the sheer lack of concern by people and the shopkeeper broke me. This is a local park, it's pretty out of the way so you're only going through it if you live around here really. Not a single person cared.

While it’s very true that a portion of claimants are thriving because they have no real overheards due to council tax relief and having the majority of their rent paid etc. while also having a higher tendency not to care to pay the bills that they are actually liable for, they’re also a very small minority who are very over represented in the media.

Most folk are constantly having to scramble for cash, likely known to food banks and living extremely hand to mouth and that goes for those who are both unemployed and/or poorly employed to the point they are essentially working for nothing and might as well be unemployed.

I agree in part. It’s incredibly difficult to be eligible if your partner has a job HOWEVER it’s not unknown that many claimants come from families of claimants where there’s no penalty on families who intentionally rely entirely on the state handout.

Your situation I would argue is unfair. Just because you had a job doesn’t mean you can suddenly support your partner entirely.

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HypeMountain_02@reddit

Doing temporary work contracts, and living with family to save tons of money on rent really. It’s bleak everywhere in the world right now, have American Discord pals who are really struggling to get work or get into a career too. I’m trying to get into apprenticeships and things like that in my early 30s to get an actual career going but have had no luck so far. Haven’t had a permanent job since summer 2024.

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Quite easily they don't pay rent get reductions on other bills don't pay for prescriptions or dentists etc it's not hard to see they can easily manage.

Some people will have savings or insurance they can use to tide them over, or they may have got a redundancy payout. Some people will have a family member or a partner to help. If you're renting and eligible for universal credit, you do usually at least get your housing paid for and can just about afford food on the remainder. There are also some good apps etc for cheap/free food now if you aren't too fussy.

Some people may also be getting into debt or arrears on their mortgage etc.

I used to work with a guy who made siginifcantly more mopney on eBay flipping shoes and coats he got from Gumtree, Vinted etc for cheap. He used to brag to me that he never paid tax on any of it, sounds like he just used multiple accounts to avoid being picked up on it by eBay.

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cgknight1@reddit

A few people I know got a hustle that doesn't count as employment

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Theo_Cherry@reddit

Savings have run out now so panic starts.

That part

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phatboi23@reddit

Why not eligible?

see the "Money, savings and investments limits" section:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/universal-credit-money-savings-and-investments

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xochtlic@reddit

i just take whatever job i can get

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Ill-Supermarket-2706@reddit

I survive being stuck in a job I hate

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ZealousidealCar2256@reddit

Even being employed is not enough anymore, I have 3 jobs on the side with my main one just to survive

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ClacksInTheSky@reddit

There's less job vacancies now then there were in December 2019 before the pandemic.

I had a brief bit of unemployment, eating less, gym, sleeping late, pretending I was a student again, being economical.

It sucked.

I was in my 30s.

Literally the goal of getting to the end of the day.

I'd visit my parents and help them out around the house, spend times with friends for a walk or a coffee and make it stretch.

I did have bills and debts and allocated myself 1500 a month from savings to cover everything.

I'd much rather have been working, even applying to 25 jobs a day on indeed didnt make a dent for a while.

I couldn't do it long term.

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sxxcxdx_blOnde@reddit

I read, I eat smaller portions so my child has more, we wear lots of jumpers, I bake at the weekend for a “treat”. Diagnosed bipolar disorder so I receive some disability benefits but not a lot. Live in constant fear of having those benefits taken away.

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Dry-Mammoth9632@reddit

Savings, savings made for the kids, not paying capital on mortgage, getting to the point where it’s best to say I’ve moved out so I get benefits and so does my partner.

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appletinicyclone@reddit

without benefits difficult, with family, those who can cover your house and food

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Iabhoryouu@reddit

Covid impaired me for life at 23 I’m now 27, people seem to forget that even happened. I can no longer work, everyday is battle to the next, from the long lasting effects this virus has left me with.

Previously I worked IT, had done for 5 years and was making good progress. Now I’m on benefits and live back with family which makes it possible to live.

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Chaos1842@reddit

Luck, making porn and daily scuicide plans that get dropped whe money suddenly comes in from the porn

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Dusty_Miss_Havisham@reddit

I went through a period last year where I wasn't earning bc I burned out from my corporate career. Luckily I had some savings but I had to change my lifestyle a lot. I realised I spent way too much before on unnecessary tat. We occasionally wasted food when we missed a use-by date, we went out too much, we bought new things like trainers, clothes, phones, new homewares etc.

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PuzzleheadedFold503@reddit

Be disabled/chronic illness.

It takes up much more time than a 9 to 5.

3x as much free time.

10x the appointments and meetings to fit in during the month.

No money to do it.

I’m employed at the moment, but given automation I have no idea how the next 5 years will look.

Trying to put away as much as possible each month as a little nest egg…

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