Is it CRUD all the way down? How to break out of it?
Posted by onefutui2e@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 128 comments
Hey all,
About 17 years total experience, started off as a self-taught goofball writing scripts to make my job easier to working at big tech and startups, picking up my masters along the way.
What really got me into tech/software was that I could solve a lot of business problems writing code and gain efficiencies. My love for it increased as I went back to school and worked with C and all its thorniness. I remember writing my own (shitty) web server for a class and load tested it on a potato computer, watching it serve tens of thousands of requests per second without fail. Or writing and managing my own (shitty) message broker.
Then over time, a lot of things changed. You no longer write and host your own web servers; you have AWS for that. Okay, fine, I thought. There's still a lot of value in managing your provisioned resources, trying to figure out what your tech stack looks like, etc.
A few years later, everything now is either server-less or otherwise managed. Why spin up your own Kafka running on ECS when you can just use MSK? Do you really want to manage your own message broker while AWS offers ManagedMQ now? Any time I need some sort of service to set up, my infrastructure guys would just be like, "Yeah, let's just use this managed service instead."
(On one hand, I get it. If managing a service ourselves takes up 10% of an engineer's time, then it might make sense to go with a managed service as your startup scales. On the other, it's a lot less fun and I have fewer opportunities to bolster my CV.)
At that point, my life was basically coming up with the architecture to manage distributed systems, but a lot of my day-to-day was relegated to writing CRUD APIs. And that was fine, too. You want me to pay me how much money to just write code that essentially delivers your request to a database and returns you some data? Sure!
But now with AI around, even writing CRUD is being supplanted (as much as people on this sub think otherwise, I've personally used it and it gets 80% there most of the time). And I'd be remiss if I didn't say that this has increased my anxiety and existential crisis. So my question to you all is, what now?
I was thinking maybe moving into technical product management or maybe looking into the various "forward deployed engineer" roles where I can leverage my technical skills while doing work that is unlikely to be replaced by AI. But I think back to what made me so interested in software engineering in the first place and I want to see what else is out there. So far, I've played around with running my own LLMs, writing my own agents, etc. But even that essentially is CRUD with a wrapper around it. Not to mention that space moves so quickly that with a job and a child, it's very difficult to keep up.
Curious to hear thoughts and ideas. Thanks in advance!
beauzero@reddit
pdf2htmlEX).difftastic), paid proprietary apps (SemanticMerge), or line-based diffs (git diff).Potrace), expensive suites (Illustrator), or limited web demos.Hang in there and pull out your old OS and Systems Engineering/Architecture/Analysis books. Soon very soon single developers will be building stuff from old ideas and new that were thought impossible. We just have a hard time seeing tomorrow. I lived through going from Gopher to http and html. I wish I had taken the time to pull apart CGI (common gateway interface) and write something for windows 3.11 back then. You have those chances again. Look around...step up one theoretical level and start pushing the toolchains (Codex, Claude Code, AntiGravity) to work on things that are so impossible for you that you don't think of them now.
Examples of 3 such ideas (above).
Fancy-Scholar-4348@reddit
Been messing with Qoest API for a side project turning scanned invoices into structured data. The OCR handles messy PDFs better than anything else I've tried, and the pricing actually makes sense for small runs. Semantic parsing still feels like magic when it works.
Diddlesquig@reddit
thanks chatgpt
beauzero@reddit
Nah can't afford ChatGPT. Had to go with Gemini for the table...got Gemini with the family plan. :)
HospitalSimple6501@reddit
I actually went through a very similar phase.
After years doing backend work, I realized most of what companies pay us for eventually collapses into CRUD around business rules. Infrastructure got managed, distributed systems got abstracted away, and suddenly a lot of engineering became glue code between APIs and databases.
Instead of fighting that, I started experimenting with removing the repetitive part entirely. I ended up building a PHP datagrid/admin framework mostly because I was tired of rewriting the same CRUD layers over and over again.
Interestingly, once the boring parts disappeared, the work shifted back to solving real problems — data modeling, UX for operators, workflows, performance edge cases — the stuff that originally made engineering fun.
AI actually reinforced this for me. If AI can generate 80% of CRUD, maybe CRUD was never the valuable part of our job to begin with.
I think the escape hatch isn’t leaving engineering, but moving closer to tools, abstractions, and systems that multiply engineers instead of replacing them.
Ironically, building tools for developers has felt more “engineering” than most product work I’ve done in years.
Complete-Towel-834@reddit
AI is not even necessary to abstract coding CRUDs, you can just use Supabase
CallinCthulhu@reddit
Everything is CRUD, absolutely everything.
_SpaceLord_@reddit
Not everything. I can’t find any way to describe the product I’m working on (embedded avionics sensor) as CRUD. That’s just… not what it does.
Not gonna argue that most stuff isn’t CRUD, especially in the web space, but the jobs that OP is looking for do exist.
wisconsinbrowntoen@reddit
The OP is saying that all software does some combination of creating data, updating data, reading data, and deleting data. Which I'm sure your fancy plane sensor does.
Imaginary_Maybe_1687@reddit
Depends on how silly or earnest you want to be with your definitions. Is instancig an object Creation? Is setting a variable an Update? I would argue its not. Thats not what CRUD programs do.
Pressing the spacebar and seeing my mario jump I wiuld not consieer anywhere near anything in CRUD.
_SpaceLord_@reddit
Defining software as “something that does stuff with data” is tautological. CRUD has a specific meaning in the software industry.
CallinCthulhu@reddit
Yeah it means Create, Read, Update, Delete.
I-AM-NOT-THAT-DUCK@reddit
Yeah I work in the heavy machinery industrial side - there is no way my work is CRUD
yojimbo_beta@reddit
This is a bad argument. You are saying that anything with state is CRUD. And anyway, there is lots of stateless programming
Teh_Original@reddit
OOP is just blashphemy to the CRUD gods.
gigamiga@reddit
Not at all. I’ve worked on anti fraud and anti money laundering algorithms, robotics calibration, neural nets for OCR, customer service AI, there’s plenty out there that isn’t crud.
AchillesDev@reddit
I have too (and work on even more cutting edge things these days), and it still is. The issue is that CRUD is a reductive term to the point it becomes meaningless if you overdo it.
farox@reddit
It's actually cache management. Almost everything is managing cache of some sort.
kagato87@reddit
My first thought as well. Even that wep server OP wrote was still a CRUD application - it was reading files from a disk and presenting them to the user. A file system is still a lot like a database - it stores data on a stuctured way. It's just hierarchical instead of relational.
Computers do stuff with data. No data, no computer. It always has been CRUD all the way down to the registers. Even down to the transistors.
dmazzoni@reddit
Are you asking what else is out there other than CRUD?
I'm not sure I agree that other types of coding are less likely to get replaced by AI, but I've spent most of my 20+ year career working on stuff that's not CRUD (though of course there's some).
Some examples I can think of:
That's just scratching the surface, there are so many more.
daddy4sharx@reddit
I've been working on web dev my entire career. Does anyone here work in robotics? How is it? Is a pivot possible?
Connect_Fishing_6378@reddit
I think there’s nuance here. I personally hit an inflection point in late 2025 where I went from thinking AI assisted coding was basically a grift to thinking that most code will be generated rather than written in the span of 5-10 years.
The difference is though, for CRUD-type code, especially if good tools exist to abstract away things like auth, backend infra scaling, etc. once the code can be generated the work basically decomposes down to something that can be more or less done by a product designer, UX designer, etc. And honestly maybe a lot of the developers that exist today are already essentially filling those roles in top of writing the code and will just naturally transition over time to spend the vast majority of time doing design than typing code into an IDE.
For things that involve more algorithmic complexity, complex interactions with the OS and/or HW, advanced performance optimization, etc. I don’t see AI replacing the need for an ‘engineer’ to spec requirements, define architecture, and validate what the AI generates.
stdmemswap@reddit
BusEquivalent9605@reddit
Been working my way through the crud to get there. But making the jump is tough. I know Id do great in a non-CRUD role but my resume says CRUD, so I’m basically asking someone to take a chance on me. It will pay off, but this is a tough market for it
R_Olivaw_Daneel@reddit
This resonates with me so much. Almost all my experience is CRUD or architecture around CRUD. But my passion is way lower level. My hobby projects are where I can express this because I do feel like its super difficult to break into a different domain.
DrShocker@reddit
You've gotta try to twist things to fit, or if it comes down to it do a personal project at professional quality.
BusEquivalent9605@reddit
Lord knows I’m trying, lol. Been building an audio program in C++ keeping the dream/delusion alive that it’s enough for someone to hire me
ZucchiniMore3450@reddit
Maybe you should contribute to some open source project. SerenityOS has attracted many web developers that are now writing C++ operating system code.
That way you can scratch your itch, see if you really wanna do it as a full time job and have proven reference.
BusEquivalent9605@reddit
Good call and thanks for the heads up on Serenity. Will check that out and start contributing as time and skill-level allows
No_Indication_1238@reddit
Just change your resume. Get the interview. If you're good, you have nothing to fear.
bland3rs@reddit
At my first job, I would spend time between tasks working on my own things that I personally thought were important. Well everyone else agreed too.
I became the guy that could be given “cool tasks.”
So I started getting cool tasks. Math heavy ones (I took a lot of math in college), optimization problems, etc.
Then I could put that on my resume and it was easy to find jobs that did more fun stuff.
BusEquivalent9605@reddit
Totally - I’m always moving in that direction and the project I’m on is a bit more than straight crud along these lines. The jump from Java/Angular to C++/Qt is the trick
nyanyabeans@reddit
How did you get into audio programming? I have a background in music/sound mixing but work in a very different field as a dev now. After almost five years of being out of the music industry I miss it a lot, but it feels like I need to take specific courses or something to even know where to start there.
just-random-name-@reddit
I'd add data engineering / analytics engineering to that list
stuartseupaul@reddit
Sounds like you want to be a devops person. I wouldnt consider managing services myself to be a dev thing. The architecture for a distributed system to me is fulfilling and requires a lot more than basic CRUD.
dmikalova-mwp@reddit
A revelation for me with Terraform is that it's just a declarative CRUD wrapper around APIs that then lets you write generic configs to manage resources.
Connect_Fishing_6378@reddit
While I have been fortunate in that I have not worked a CRUD job in my 10 YOE, I did face dread of perpetual CRUDdom when I was graduating after only really doing CRUD for internships/personal projects.
How I escaped that track and the best way I can recommend to others to do the same is to get a job that leverages your existing skills in an organization that also employs non-CRUD devs, build relationships with them, ask questions about what they do, go home and build relevant personal projects at night, and then start asking if you can pick up some backlog tickets on their projects and go from there. None of this is easy or guaranteed to be successful, but it’s a lot more of a direct path than spamming applications to jobs you’re likely unqualified for, and I do think it’s worth the effort.
Pale_Height_1251@reddit
No, games aren't CRUD, generally embedded isn't, or creative apps like Adobe, or industrial.
No magic to it, apply for jobs you like the look of.
Nottabird_Nottaplane@reddit
Why are creative apps like Adobe not CRUD? I can intuit why the software that powers an F-150’s motor isn’t reducible to a simple CRUD, but what makes Figma different in that respect too?
Connect_Fishing_6378@reddit
Photoshop / video editing sw / music production sw / etc. involve some of the more complex algorithmic work that exists in mass market sw products. Think about compositing multiple sets of layers and filters, color corrections , etc in photoshop, implementing beat sequences in protools and perfectly tuning the OS audio stack to get the lowest timeline to audio latency possible, or writing GPU based video encoders to get maximum throughput.
All of this is very much non-crud. Granted a big question is how much of the hours that go into developing these products is spent on these types of tasks vs front end or more CRUDish pieces of the overall system.
Nottabird_Nottaplane@reddit
That’s interesting thanks
Wacov@reddit
The original post reads a little ai-ish too lol I am losing my mind
user345456@reddit
Are all the other replies to this comment bots? They all start the same way (yeah/totally/true), are all fully lowercase, similar length, similar content.
elevator13@reddit
yeah totally, identifying AI posts is now part of the Reddit experience. makes reading comments interesting again (/s I am not a bot)
NowaStonka@reddit
That is something a bot would say.
DualWieldingCaguamas@reddit
No this is 100% human skill, baby
Confident_Pepper1023@reddit
No, I wouldn't.
TheGlobfather7I0@reddit
yeah totally, stepping inot smth like bot detection or snake charming could spark you up bruhhhhh. fresh meats and real human creativity ftw
SharkBearRhino@reddit
I think I need to reevaluate why I am even on this website, or this kind of internet in general. We should all probably do that, it seems like we’re already full Dead Internet theory
OccasionalGoodTakes@reddit
It’s hard as fuck to break the habit of using this website when you’ve been using it long enough. It’s also homogenized communities that would’ve existed on different websites.
gefahr@reddit
This isn't even my oldest account. I regret 80-90% of the time I've spent on this site since around covid. Ratio used to be the inverse of that before the mobile app push.
The remaining 10-20% that kept me here is being overrun by bots and angry teenagers.
OccasionalGoodTakes@reddit
I get it entirely. Early 10s to now, it’s an entirely different website.
newEnglander17@reddit
Indie web!
Unfair-Sleep-3022@reddit
Holy moly
GuybrushThreepwo0d@reddit
New gpt just dropped
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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SamurottX@reddit
I just want to know what specifically caused this post to get swarmed by bots in such an obvious way. Other posts probably are as well but at least it's more subtle
bdanmo@reddit
For real. What the fuck is going on?
PrudentWolf@reddit
r/ExperiencedBots
TheGlobfather7I0@reddit
They're heeeeeere
Flashtoo@reddit
And the obligatory single typo
lunacraz@reddit
cyber security
rayreaper@reddit
To be fair, unless you're doing engine-level work, modern gameplay programming can end up being high-level systems integration on top of large frameworks. It's not CRUD, but can still feel pretty repetitive after awhile.
Exact_Initiative_957@reddit
ngl fr, creative apps and gaming are a whole different beast. maybe worth diving into those if you're looking for more excitement
suzannez3sty9012@reddit
idk yeah, there's so much more than CRUD. exploring different domains might reignite that passion for tech you had initially js
Ok_Maintenance8258@reddit
yeah, branching out might be the way to go. sometimes just gotta switch it up and find the spark again
irenez3sty3917@reddit
true that, it's all about finding what sparks joy. maybe look at fields where creativity and problem-solving are core elements
EarPossible625@reddit
yeah totally, game dev and embedded stuff seem like a fresh change of pace. might be worth exploring if you're feeling stuck
joych3rry4320@reddit
bruh true, gaming and creative apps offer more freedom. maybe try something in vr or ar? could be a fun challenge?
Wonderful-Debt-1867@reddit
for sure, shifting into areas like gaming or creative tech could def keep things interesting and away from the crud grind
courtneybu7tercu5569@reddit
yeah totally, there's a whole world outside of CRUD. just gotta find what makes you excted to code again
CommercialWarning676@reddit
yeah, games and embedded can be really cool, definitely different frmo the usual crud grind. might spark that old passion again
Inner-Lawfulness-420@reddit
yeah totally, stepping inot smth like game dev or embedded could bring the spark back. fresh challenges and creativity ftw
bilbo_was_right@reddit
AI right now will produce a massive tangled mess of slop if you don’t direct it well. If we want to keep using it, it’ll have to get better. Once it does, there will always be people whose job it is to drive the AI, or suggest it to do things differently. Human creativity is what is missing from generative models, and they mistake randomness with creativity. Maybe they’ll solve that problem too, but right now there’s a very large gaping problem solving hole that AI needs to cover with infinite effort, and soon after VC subsidization goes away, a lot of places probably won’t want to pay the price tag.
leniency-1@reddit
using assistive text-generation is not a skill. using google-ripoff that speaks is not a skill. using trending jargon is not a skill. companies who use it have lower business practice standards by reliance on cutting corners and hide behind unsubstantial business speak.
chipstastegood@reddit
Business application software is mostly CRUD. There is a lot more out there than just business apps.
Mindless-Pilot-Chef@reddit
If you’re working on web app, pretty much everything is a crud. But then with scale you start noticing bottlenecks so you introduce batch processing, background jobs, message queues and evolve the system over time.
onefutui2e@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I was doing some thinking and I feel that part of it is just that right now, my startup is still in the "we're about to scale" phase so while we're building towards it, we're not quite there yet. And as a result, I'm just writing back-end APIs to serve the front-end app. Our tech stack as a result is fairly simple; we're just not quite there yet.
Mindless-Pilot-Chef@reddit
At a startup, your main goal is to push more features as fast as possible. Scaling is not the first priority
tikhonjelvis@reddit
There are definitely some more specialized (and interesting!) jobs out there. I've been lucky enough to work on supply chain optimization, simulation, automated accessibility testing and, at my current role, static analysis. I've also had a couple of more generic backend/fullstack roles, and the specialized projects have always been more interesting.
Roles like that exist. Some of them even involve doing legitimately novel work! (Lamentably rare in an industry that should, in principle, be able to reuse solutions to non-novel problems...)
Unfortunately, I don't have any real suggestions on how to find roles like this, just that they're worth looking for. In my case, all my interesting work so far has either come from somebody I know or, at least, from an inbound recruiter. But other people on the same teams and in other interesting projects definitely found the roles actively, so it's both possible and worth the effort.
onefutui2e@reddit (OP)
Thanks for this. I'll keep an eye out. Perhaps the early stage startup space isn't quite the right fit for me and I should start trying to see what else is out there.
AchillesDev@reddit
If you become this reductive about your work, then yes everything will look like CRUD. But your wrapper shouldn't be so thin that there is nothing else there, and it shouldn't just be a wrapper.
I do a mix of data, genAI, and ML engineering, as well as research work. While a lot of it uses some database or some service as part of the core (everything has to store data!), it's not what most people mean when they talk about CRUD apps.
I went solo in 2024, so companies hire me (or build a small project-based team with me) to solve their data and AI problems. Some of this looks like FDE, some of it looks like regular IC work (including research and engineering), some of it looks like a mix of team lead/management/product management. A lot of the IC work is interesting but the interesting part is getting a vague description and forming it into something before ever even writing any code, but having the 'full stack' of skillsets is extremely important and I think will become much more important as we continue.
onefutui2e@reddit (OP)
You make a good point. I should probably be more proud of my work and less reductive, as you say. Thanks!
iscottjs@reddit
I can’t remember who said it, maybe Linus Torvalds, something along the lines of “computer science is about moving data from one place to another and transforming it”.
That’s always stuck with me because it feels so true with everything I’ve built from content management systems, enterprise platforms, SaaS and lower level stuff.
You could argue that everything is CRUD one way or another but there’s the good kind and the shitty kind.
If you’re building an app that just takes form input a puts it into a database and does nothing else then I see that as shitty CRUD.
But if you have an app with many connected parts and complex business logic, maybe a subscription/billing system or a stock management system or workflow automation, it’s still got elements of CRUD by definition but maybe a bit more interesting.
onefutui2e@reddit (OP)
This is true! I think the thing is at my startup, we're in that awkward "we should think about scaling, but we're also not quite hitting the pain points and bottlenecks of a distributed system yet" phase so while we want to start building out the architecture to be more complex, these priorities are butting against business initiatives and well, those always win out lol.
Banquet-Beer@reddit
Maybe you should be in sales. That was boring and exhausting.
Unfair-Sleep-3022@reddit
Big companies don't use managed services because it's stupidly expensive
h3wro@reddit
Totally not true, lol
Unfair-Sleep-3022@reddit
Do you have an example?
One_Victory6632@reddit
I'm a data engineer and in the past worked as a DS, so I've quite literally never worked on CRUD apps beyond putting a ML model behind an endpoint
AcrIsss@reddit
Every time the paradigm shifts towards more simplicity, you either follow the trend and find something else to do, or you find work in all the companies selling that simplicity.
I work for a database company. It’s CRUD, but with more exciting challenges
FortuneIIIPick@reddit
It was never about CRUD but about the business logic. AI can do CRUD. It has not the ability to do a decent job on business logic yet companies frothing at the mouth to cut people and fatten their C-suite's golden parachutes are treating AI like it can.
jjcdr@reddit
Sadly its crud all the way down indeed.
opideron@reddit
Most business applications are essentially very fancy Excel spreadsheets that can talk to a database. For these, yes, it is CRUD all the way down, and the extra layers put varying degrees of facade on top of the database and/or intermediate layers.
That accounts for most software jobs out there, because there is always a need to manage inventory, employees, billing and so on. There are other kinds of software that aren't just a fancy spreadsheet that talks to a database, which do things like control robots, drive video cards, edit movies, or play games. These still have a lot of CRUD, but their non-business focus allows for more variety.
About the fanciest coding I've found in a business application is the algorithm to convert a pair of latitude/longitude points into a distance (by approximating Earth as a sphere). The fanciest I've ever had to create from scratch was a means to calculate "overtime" before the time is worked. So it isn't good enough to check whether there is overtime, but to check whether this next shift would go into overtime. Maybe that sounds simple to you, but overtime rules differ by business and by state. California goes into overtime after 8 hours in a day, and double time after 12, while most states just go into overtime after 40 hours in a week. And this particular application allowed for customized overtime rules. AND this check had to happen on the database side in a query, because reasons, so the algorithm had to go into SQLCLR (C#/SqlServer architecture).
WhatzMyOtherPassword@reddit
Fuckin california overtime & their breaks
SippieCup@reddit
hopefully you did it as a spheroid otherwise you probably have a little drift as you move in latitude - speaking from experience in writing the same thing awhile ago!
I love problems like these, at my current company, which is still basically a B2B SaaS ERP, we’re lucky enough to both have a whole bunch of them and not have to write it in a DB query.
opideron@reddit
Good point, but this use case didn't need the spheroid logic. The purpose wasn't to get an especially accurate distance, but instead to check for "all competitors within 50 miles", for example. No one was going to care that, "Akshually, that competitor is 51 miles away."
nedal8@reddit
Yeah.. I did a similar but even more lanky version. I was trying to show ski resorts withing a range.. I just used Pythagoras theorem and used a close enough coefficient to account for longitudinal convergence.
MinimumArmadillo2394@reddit
Can confirm.
Worked for a logistics company that has 40 year old software. Its basically a giant spreadsheet with complicated lookup tables, complex rules for data validation, and a genuinely shitty UI for a java desktop application.
Worked for a bank and the application I worked on was text extraction from a pdf which was, again, basically an excel spreadsheet conversion from a pdf for data validation.
Big_Bed_7240@reddit
The term “everything is CRUD” is as meaningless as saying that we’re all stardust.
danintexas@reddit
CRUD to pay the bills
Games to work the noodle
lunacraz@reddit
hilariously enough, i got into software to create things
passerbycmc@reddit
Tons of stuff, I have written mostly not crud in my 15 year career. Look at embedded systems, games, and creative apps.
Bricktop72@reddit
Helping users organize all the data that is going into the CRUD app will still be important.
8ersgonna8@reddit
I swapped to devops engineer because all available jobs around me was just CRUD APIs. Maybe data engineer would have added some variation though.
spdfg1@reddit
That is the nature of any job and it’s not just in software. over time most of the work becomes routine, repetitive, unchallenging like CRUD. Think of a building contractor who likes to build new houses but after you’ve built enough it’s all the same thing over and over. Your options are to find a new job where there is enough novelty for a while to keep it interesting. Or maybe find a role like a consulting so you can bounce from client to client frequently. But even that will be CRUD after a while as it repeats. Forcing yourself into constant change is the way to limit falling into the CRUD trap.
NotGoodSoftwareMaker@reddit
Nah youre still thinking too locally, its actually bit flips, all the way down
kevinossia@reddit
I solved this issue by avoiding web stuff my entire career.
The result is I get to work on fun, interesting, challenging stuff.
biggamax@reddit
In the age of AI nipping at our heels, what would your advice be for "senior" engineers who made the mistake you avoided, and can't as easily break into embedded systems and the like?
bluiska2@reddit
I'm a senior eng working Full-Stack. I'm in high demand. When you can orchestrate an entire system end-to-end to a good standard (experts will be better than me in each individual area but my value is breadth of experience) then you will always be needed. If AI is writing my React code, I'll write the API. If AI is writing the AI, I'll draw the architecture diagram. If AI is doing that, I'll break the tasks down and manage the sprint. Write docs, auditing, observability, you name it.
kevinossia@reddit
I mean nothing’s “easy”, right?
All I could say is pick something that looks interesting, figure out what they want from a hiring standpoint, and work backwards from there.
biggamax@reddit
Although it could be perceived as being a bit boring; interested in permissioning, audit logs, policy enforcement, monitoring, and evaluation of agents.
biggamax@reddit
Makes sense. Thanks for the reply.
OnyXerO@reddit
Like what?
IrishPrime@reddit
Like any systems level programming.
I used to work in backups.
Crawling a filesystem, monitoring for changes, checking diffs against the backup appliance, deduplicating backups (how many copies of
win32.dlldo you really need?), replicating the backups across multiple appliances...Lots of things to do just on one part of the "taking backups" side of the equation that never gets into CRUD (as we typically discuss it).
kevinossia@reddit
I wrote this comment a few years ago that I think still applies.
In my case I work on video streaming systems.
franz_see@reddit
Somehow i doubt that it’s all CRUD. What we do is automation. So what manual work are you actually automating if they’re all CRUD? Filing of documents? Inputing in spreadsheets? Even if that’s the case, at some point in time, it goes to a person for decision making or processing. This is where you leave the just-CRUD part.
So i guess im just wondering - what are you automating exactly?
Independent-Ad-4791@reddit
Self driving cars have been 80% of the way there for years.
FlattestGuitar@reddit
All this CRUD has to run on something. Bigger companies build internal platforms, AWS is hiring too. Join a platform team!
wind_dude@reddit
Nothing like hiring people to manage infrastructure and they just offload it. lol
Are you talking about AI writing the CRUD, or things like text2sql that interact right with the data?
But yea I’m feeling a bit of the same. Writing my own models even the architecture, curating the datasets and training has been fun, but I don’t have the financial resources to push it. Agents are… ehhhh, a bit like blogging IMH. I’m also think about more as a product designer / architect. But I still don’t get the joy from solving technical problems.
Dangerous-Sale3243@reddit
In 10-20 years who knows. Why worry about something you can’t predict or control?
In 2-5 years I see software engineering being more about organizing and shaping agents to achieve the task than writing code. But ultimately that’s all code was. This is just another abstraction. No agent or LLM out of the box can get you from A to B on a serious product. So you’re needed, just for something slightly different than you expected.
originalchronoguy@reddit
Sure but for apps like Games, Video Editing, Image processor, DJ remixing audio apps, Instagram reels, the CRUD part is like .0001% of the application. The store of data and retrieval just requires an adapter or interface to pull out my JSON coordinates of my video track or DB records of my audio tracts.
Tell a front end developer to build an app that makes TikTok and Instagram animation, 90% of FEs don't know how to do that. Thus, I would venture to say 90% of Enterprise CRUD apps that do web forms and paginated grids don't require much skill. They can be done by juniors and freshers.
Sliffcak@reddit
not at all, go embedded, robotics, automotive. And any other algorithm heavy fields
PurepointDog@reddit
Analytics processes, especially at large scales or with compleg business problems, certainly aren't CRUD at all
Fwellimort@reddit
I mean basically every problem at the simplest is CRUD no?
And yes, programming isn't making something completely novel for 99.9999% of jobs.
onefutui2e@reddit (OP)
Fair point. I do remember an old engineering director tell me, essentially, "Yeah, when I first started in the field, I wrote my own database drivers. But now no one does that. So what do we do? Well, as things get easier, we're asked to do more, solve more complex problems, etc. And that's where our value continues to live."
So yeah, understood that the vast majority of the time you're not working on anything particularly novel.
But...there's a part of me that feels writing RESTful APIs all day is not really complex at all. There was a bit of fun in trying to write your database queries in such a way to minimize the number of round trips, but recently even that feels like it's no longer prioritized in the name of making the repository layer more fungible, especially with Aurora RDS being a thing.
caveinnaziskulls@reddit
Until you hit sql. All the way down