What's the future for the AK platform?
Posted by StrangerOutrageous68@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 93 comments
(Image: AKV-521)
Posted by StrangerOutrageous68@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 93 comments
(Image: AKV-521)
Ok_Camp_9140@reddit
I like what the SureShot did to solve the problem in mounting optics. Create a side rail dust cover. Boom problem solved.
I also loved there SureShot spear LT but it's pricey
The problem with AK - modularity of barrel replacement - no standardization. Each Ak manufacturer has it own way attaching its stock, handguards and other accessories - Chang the bolt carrier design. It should not sit on top of the receiver which means the charging handle should be place on the upper part. The dust cover base should sit on the top of the receiver
meowtu@reddit
I agree with you.
- Recreate the front trunnion or create a design which will allow lego like barrel replacement.
- Bolt carrier should not slide on the top of the receiver but should be limited only to the internal side of the receiver.
- The charging handle should be on the upper part
- The safety should be like Galil ace style
- Decrease the length of the side rail. Instead of having 1 side rail. Add another side rail on right side. This will ensure the weight balance of the rifle.
- Design an AK mount that is welded on the dust cover (like the SureShot) and it will be attach on the side rail (both side)
- Add bolt catch
TRX302@reddit
"The future" of the AK happened in 1990, when the Indian INSAS variant went into service. The INSAS had various improvements over the base AK; forward cocking like a G3, a completely different FCG with three-round burst capability, better sights, and many detail improvements.
The INSAS did poorly in service and was eventually replaced with imported, Russian-made AKMs. The problem with the INSAS wasn't the design, which was excellent, but the effect of absolute lack of quality control of accountability, which was, unfortunately, an unsolvable political problem, not an engineering problem.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
If you think those features on the INSASare improvements please do more research at least. What is different does not mean better.
ShermanTeaPotter@reddit
It gets AR-ified until it’s only a long stroke gas piston system in an otherwise conventional chassis. My five cents on this topic is that Eugene Stoner‘s true genius was less in the internal piston system, but more in the supreme ergonomics.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Supereme ergonomics have a price in reliability and durability.
Bolt hold open/Releases wear out.
The safety springs also wear out.
Yes yes, needs replacement if replacement is available at the time. And that depends on the supply structure and if and how it is disrupted as well as the country that uses it and their military's inspection regime.
The button magazine release is weak and sub-optimal if you want to use your rifle in EVERY region in the world.
And in my opionoin, we absolutely can forget the T-handle for good. Bury it even for anything other than a concealed PDWs. That's what that particular design shines.
One can argue for example that the AK's ergonomics suck and everything is too overbuilt about them so that needs extra training to use but they are as simple as it gets and if you really pushing the extremes you'd want that sort of functionality. But is that really always necessary?
TRX302@reddit
I greatly prefer the AK's ergonomics to those of the AR.
The only advantage the AR has, ergonomically, is that you can buy or assemble one that ejects to the left.
Crq_panda@reddit
In the end, it will all look like QBZ-191 because no one can resist the short stroke piston
ShermanTeaPotter@reddit
I think gun design shares some similarities to the evolution of species. The design most suited (fittest?) for the intended purpose will survive, and right now it looks like short-stroke piston ARs are generally considered successful.
EnvironmentalBox6688@reddit
I've thought about this before.
Mainstream firearms design has definitely taken the "Carcinisation" (tendency for crustaceans to evolve into crabs) route.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
And why are short-stroke piston AR platform variants are seeing more success nowadays?
IlyushinGoBrrr@reddit
Advantages of short-stroke piston AR15-esque rifles:
Less need for fine tuning the gas system like in Direct Impingement. In short-stroke, there are 3 settings: 'suppressed' and 'unsuppressed' and 'adverse'
Less gas into the internal parts than Stoner's DI, no need to clean gun super frequently, less gas to face, less pressure blowback which means better suppression host.
Always over-gassed to remove debris, dirt and whatnots, meaning it always runs no matter the conditions nor the weathers. The recoil is somewhat more stout than DI, but it is not that bad.
A piston gun does not require buffer tube. You can slap a folding stock which shortens the overall length of the rifle. There are some exceptions like HK416 and HK417 which are short-stroke piston operated and have a buffer tubes in their stocks.
leto78@reddit
It is just better with suppressors.
Cheap-Variation-9270@reddit
Soviet engineers switched from short stroke piston to long stroke
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
For their service rifles, yes. They started out with the short stroke SVT-38/40 and then the SKS and then an AK.
Cheap-Variation-9270@reddit
Before the SVT, there was the ABC 36 and a huge number of trial copies that proved that a long piston was better in the USSR.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Not just for the USSR, many other nations used it in the 20th century. The long-stroke piston is in my opinion is the best system for a service rifle. But it might be overkill for today.
Cheap-Variation-9270@reddit
The Russian Federation needs an assault rifle that works in any climatic conditions, from the Arctic to the desert and the jungle.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
The short-stroke gas system can do that but the long stroke does it without extra parts and stays reliable longer when dirty.
Cheap-Variation-9270@reddit
The short stroke piston is able to do the same as the long stroke, but at times more expensive, given that the required number of units is estimated in millions - a short stroke is not needed in the Russian Federation.
dirtybellybutton@reddit
Barring some unforeseen and insane advancement in manufacturing tech, pretty much any advancements from what's shown above would change the rifle into a new design that would be outside of the realm of "AK".
"Similar" short-stroke alternatives like the BRN 180 and the jakl are being developed in produced by multiple companies. These designs will probably saturate the market especially since AKs have risen in price so dramatically as AR components have dropped.
The AK is eternal and the last shot fired out of one will be long after we are all bones in the earth but as far as improvements to design it will be very incremental.
I would really like to see someone figure out how to delete the front trunion to lighten the AK up. Use an AR10 barrel and bolt and figure out how to cam it properly
Conserp@reddit
AK is pretty much its bolt, which is a masterpiece with features that most people have no clue about. Almost everything else is superficial.
Something like short-stroke piston is not even a significant design change, just a mod.
BRN-180 and JAKL are not "AK alternatives" in the slightest (apart from being alternatives functionally). They are copy-paste slop with external bells and whistles. No serious military would consider them.
AR10 bolt design is utter trash on many levels, it is only applicable to civilian sporting rifles.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Can't delete the front trunnion. What the AK-12 brings in that regard it deleted the front sight post. Which is in part why it can be 200 grams lighter then the comperable length 200 series.
Saudiaggie@reddit
Not with that attitude
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Try it then.
nachosjustice72@reddit
Brother you're asking people for ideas and being combative when they present them. If you weren't looking for opinions that differ from yours why bother doing anything other than talking into a mirror?
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Brother I'm not being combative at all, do try it.
dirtybellybutton@reddit
That's why I was suggesting using a AR-10 bolt and barrel because the pressure is contained within those two units and doesn't use a front trunnion as an intermediary. That would possibly make it possible to substitute the front trunion material for something like 7075 aluminum or get rid of it entirely in favor of a solid billet aluminum receiver
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Excellent idea. You just made an AR-10 :)
dirtybellybutton@reddit
Hence the first comment that I made that any improvements upon the above design deviates from a traditional AK. Thing that makes an AK an AK is also one of the biggest things holding it back from AR precision. The barrel and the bolt locking mechanism being separate entities will always hold back the AKs accuracy. It also is the thing that holds back the AK from being a lighter rifle than it is because with that front trunion existing it will always be the heavier rifle.
Being heavier and less accurate will keep The AK lower on the roster. Them also being the price of a pretty nice AR is also a huge negative. If I spend $1,000 I can get a budget AR with aftermarket parts that will make it way more precise and just as reliable as a standard AK.
I know you want to fight but I'm giving perspective from two points: manufacturing perspective- I'm a machinist that has worked both in high-volume manufacturing and R&D. Fanboy perspective- I love AKs and it's the only rifle that I own at the moment and I would love to see improvements that not only make the gun truly on level with the ARs accuracy but also on level with the AR's current price point. I have spent a lot of time pondering improvements to the AK.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
I don't think anyone can doubt that the AK has limitations in the 21th century that were borne out of the way it was set up, and tha was done by the need of insane levels off mass production.
I absolutley, thorougly and limitelssly fail to understand the point of supposed issues with trunnions.
All AKs and AK variants have trunnions. The SIG 550 has a trunnion, so does the FNC. but they lack the front sight post of an AK and so they are not visible from the outside. And so what?
And we all know what the SIG 550 series are all about, its VERY accurate. And AKs aren't that inaccurate as people make them out to be and iti s not about the trunnion you see. An SVD can be very accurate as well, it also has a trunnion. And so what if it does?
Plus even the PKM has a trunnion and we all know what the PKM is all about. Lightness, Reliability and Accuracy. Yes the PKM is considered accurate.
Moreover there are trunnions on the RPL-20 which is also an all stamped gun, only weighs 5.5 kg / 12 LBS with a 23 inch barrel. It has a trunnion and so what? Did the world collapse? No. Trunnions do not make guns so much heavier unless you put a CHUNKY front sight post on them hence why I mentioned how the AK-12 manages to cut weight compared to the 200 series.
Even the SVCh and the AM-17 have trunnions following the MA design of the 70s. Exact same thing. Check them out how they're set up you'll surely appreciate the Dragunov MA lineage.
But why did bring ALL of those guns, because ALL of those guns have AK derived bolts.
If you want to use the method used for example on the AR-15, a barrel extension chamber ou you would have to ABANDON the AK style bolt!!
But by building for example with the guts of an AR-10 you'd end up with an AR-10 type gun even if its long-stroke gas piston driven and will have nothing to do with an AK even if you managed to keep some of the asethetics.
Hence why I wrote to it is not possible to remove the trunnion from an AK. And it is so strange that some people think this is about mentality when it is about limitations.
But if you or other people disagree about that, present me the method you'd couple an AK bolt, extension. And no, yo cannot do an AR bolt with TWO wide lugs. That is not an AK bolt.
dirtybellybutton@reddit
But this is about mentality because that's the only thing to really improve the AK. I've already stated twice now that any changes to the above design is no longer an AK. This is why I brought up the BRN 180 and the jakl.
The sig 550 series is one of my favorite models of gun but again it's heavier than shit. The bolt also doesn't completely function in the same way an AK does. The sad truth is The AK pattern is being phased out. Every significant military on the planet is adopting an AR pattern because it is just inherently superior as much as I hate to admit that. It's extremely modular to the point that the same lower can except three different uppers with three different gas systems. It's lighter and even though it might be marginal, it is more accurate.
No one's crying but you bud. I just like watching the fireballs come out of my Saiga 308 while I mag dump garbage
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Again, nobody disagrees with the limitations of the AK.
Again trunnions are not issues at all and will never be. A shitty sub par AK IS the issue.
They are needed for AK style bolts. And they are used on non AK bolt derived guns as well. They are different. Not inherrently less accurate, The do not weigh much. Check the guns weight I wrote about. Check the weight of a Dragunov. Again check out everything about the guns I wrote about, but at least check out the MA method of having an AK trunnion.
Nobody who is a designer cries about trunnions its so strange to me when people do.....How astonishing. They are needed where they are needed. End of the story!
-The sad truth is The AK pattern is being phased out. Every significant military on the planet is adopting an AR pattern because it is just inherently superior as much as I hate to admit that. It's extremely modular to the point that the same lower can except three different uppers with three different gas systems. It's lighter and even though it might be marginal, it is more accurate.
I do not see tha AR system being inherrently superior just because it has a lower/upper configuration and so much better optics and accessory mounting capability. One thing is for sure I'd take a good AR over shitty sub-par bullshit AKs that can survive 5k and 10k round tests and people are rejoicing in awe when a PSA or Riley or XD Century does that. Those roundcounts are the break in period for a real AK you know. What the AK is still a king at is going at going to distance, going to war anywhere on the planet. It really is a soldier's best friend. Limited in the 21th century, but is a cockroach of a durable gun and extremely reliable. And when a malf happens remediation is great. That is why the AK is a soldiers best friend.
And please by all means, name those large militaries. Do give figures of adopted rifles and the type of rifle as well I am very curious.
And then we can talk about India for example as a larger one whos adopting modern AK-203s
dirtybellybutton@reddit
Nobody cries about trunnions period, it's just a design limitation and any real designer will admit that.
Modularity and easily supplied, swappable parts far outweigh the benefits of raw rugged reliability especially when the drawbacks are weight and accuracy.
As far as AR style military adoption you have nearly all of Europe(mostly HK416s but there are other variants mixed in there), America of course, Israel is phasing out their bullpup for AR patterns, the Philippines(Remington r4 and m4), Ukraine is trying phase out aks in favor of AR patterns, Japan bought a shitload of m4s off the US, The list is actually so long that I don't have the attention span for it. If you want a rough view of it I would just look at Wikipedia or if you have the time you can scrap through military intel articles.
And I said significant military, India is not on that list. That's like caring about what cleats a beer league football team uses.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Thank you very much, very informative.
Dracon1201@reddit
It zombies on because of national identity until it gets dropped for the superior AR.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Other than than stable optics and accesory mounting capability, in what was the AR is more superior to an AK?
Dracon1201@reddit
True replaceable parts, easier to work on on the armorer level, truly universal magazine pattern, better sealed system, generally better accuracy (in that only some ARs are worse), better ergonomics, more easily convertible in every single way, better aftermarket, etc.
I love the AK, but it's a relic.
DerEisen-Drak@reddit
In the context of the russian military though they do not produce AR parts meaning that they have worse AR aftermarket than the AK at least in Russia itself, and STANAGS magazine patterns are only applicable to NATO and its allies.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
The thing is, AKs do not have to worked on much because they're built differently than ARs with different design considerations in mind. That does not mean they are indestructible just a good AK is very difficult to break so it requires to worked on by an armorer.
Universal magazine pattern? Same thing for the AKs. Now there are AKs with proprietary magazines and magazine wells . For example just about any 5.56 magazine of a given caliber will work in your Saiga. But will not for your Galil, Zastava, FB Radom or Arsenal and require proprietary magazines or modification.
Better ergonomics in normal conditions, worse ergonomics in terrible conditions and when you have to wear thick gloves or an NBC suit. So, in reality different, not better.
The AR is more accurate, absolutely has the aftermarket behind .
I love the AK and know it is not a relic. It is just limited by a design that focused on mass production optimization. Cost and material savings.
Dracon1201@reddit
AKs absolutely need to be worked on and things break on them as well. The difference is that it's harder to replace many of the parts that do break.
That's not true about the magazines. Different AKs do better or worse with different magazines. I can name between 1 and 5 brands of magazine that do not play well with various AKs I own and have owned in the past. Many also require fitting. I literally have seen this on the same brand and model of AKs.
ARs have plenty of improvements that work in adverse conditions. It's the benefit of it being so universal.
The AK absolutely is a relic. It really struggles with modernization like most Cold War era rifles. The AR nailed it perfectly. That's why everyone drops AKs for ARs, makes them for their special operations when they usually issue AKs, and the countries that make their rifles slowly morph their AKs into AR15s.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
-AKs absolutely need to be worked on and things break on them as well. The difference is that it's harder to replace many of the parts that do break.
-That's not true about the magazines. Different AKs do better or worse with different magazines. I can name between 1 and 5 brands of magazine that do not play well with various AKs I own and have owned in the past. Many also require fitting. I literally have seen this on the same brand and model of AKs.
I adressed just these and I emphasize what I wrote, GOOD AKs. But I am VERY curious to hear about what AKs you've seen break, in what way and after how many tens of thousands of rounds.
-ARs have plenty of improvements that work in adverse conditions. It's the benefit of it being so universal.
I'm curous about your favorite improvements that you think work. And how you'd make your AR be a truly universal fighting rifle you can deploy anywhere in the world with. Good thing an AK IS truly an universal gun and it doesn ot have to be improved or modified to work in adverse conditions. Maybe throw a booster on it for Siberian use. But let's get back to the AR.
The problem is inherrent to the design of controls sadly. No matter how great small spring assisted safeties are, no matter how great ping pong paddle bolt releases are. No matter how great button mag releases are. They have inherent reliability and by the way durabiltiy concerns, granted if you want to use an AR everywhere on planet Earth. On an AK, every control is avaialble for you in every environment wearing every type of gear required but for the 21th century the controls are considered unergonomic and can be also improved somewhat. EG. Krebs shelf safety or ambi thumb safeties.
I'd also discuss the AR internal mods which there have been geuine advancements in the AR BCG. Enhanced BCGs and parts to adress some of the shortcomings and enhance the BCGs performance Be that bolt lugs shearing off, bolt carrier separation and extraction and even ejection. Improved parts and so on. Different finishses and treatments and so on.
Even when a manufacturer does the right improvements, let's say LMT. The receiver of the AR system is very space constrained. A physically larger bolt carrier with a larger extractor would be more beneficial as well.
Yes you can get modified everything on your AR. Yes the T-handle is also inherrently limited by design even in its aftermarket forms. But hey, you can get a side charging upper. The same thing cannot be said for the AK although it has a pretty good aftermarket now.
Would a military get everything modified or enhanced on an AR? No. And frankly, consider most of those enhancements not so necessary but they do give a bit of an edge over MIL SPEC parts. How much is that edge depends on a lot.
And yes the AR patterns make great specialist guns but in my opinion and that is definitely dependant on the mission profile. The 416 and the MK-18 stand out to me.
The AK struggles from a design that is optimized for cost cutting and mass manufacturing thus it looks like the way it does and that limits it for bringing it up for 21th century use greatly. The AR is great in that respect and what went down in the 90s on the M4, changed the game forever.
I like both, but know for a big military and for a big war the AK is a better gun for going to distance and adversity. One can believe about the AK or AR what they want to but there are some things and limitations for each platform that cannot be denied.
BothSale3895@reddit
I personally don’t see much for the AK platform other than popping up in random zones of conflict since they are still very easy to learn but approving it much further I could see be a problem for the platform because it could easily interfere with the easy to learn aspect of the ak
sandalsofsafety@reddit
Hot take: The AK peaked with the Valmet Rk 71
HellblaueHoelle@reddit
The main improvements that the AK (usually) lacks are last round bolt hold/button release, stable top-mounted rail systems, and potentially the safety location, but that one is mostly based in Western AR-based doctrine and preference.
The appeal of the AK (and all stamped guns) is that once you build a factory for them, they're remarkably cheap for how good they are, but without the USSR, nobody is really building a factory for them, so every country is sadly going to identical AR systems.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Yet new factories all over the world are still being set up or reconfigured to produce stamped guns. AKs and PKMs.
The latest BIG factory that just opened is the AK-203 Factory in Amethi, India. And they are going to make a TON of AKs for the Indian Military as their new issued assault rifle.
Vietnam's expanding their PK manufacturing capability and Turkey doing much the same. And so on and so on I could go on. So do research this a bit more. The AK is ANYTHING but dead and will not be dead as long as people need TONS not lots but TONS of guns.
But for example in the US, making AKs is just not worth it. Or rather, making proper AKs, still sadly....
You still gotta go with GOOD exports or boutique workshop manufacturing to get a good gun properly put together for you or just learn how to build AKs yourself.
Yes it is VERY expensive to set up a line for AK manufacturing even if you have the proper tooling, schematics and the data package plus skilled workers that need to do manual labor not just throwing an AR together but I think everyone knows this and there's no need to go into this any furtther.
Yes it becomes cheap once you made tons of it, which you gotta do, to make up for the big invsetment in the factory and tooling. And you also have to make improvements to the gun to make it marketable. Or just well, do it the WASR way. WASR.
sacritide@reddit
Probably not for long tho. You don't account that so many major militaries (esp NATO) are starting to ditch the AK platform as well. They either going for AR-15 or AR-18 derivatives.
I don't even recall when was the last time any country going for AK platform to modernized their current platform.
As much as i love AKs, they're starting to less and less adopted around the world.
Milspec M4s are also not that expensive to produce compared to AK now. Even third world countries have capabilities to produce them cheaply.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
I know the trends, yes most European country adopted or wanting to adopt an AR-15 or AR-18 platform. But the reality is in the numbers of guns created no matter how many countries produce a given platform. Hence why I shared some of the countries beginning or expanding their AK production now, sure they won't fill up the news except a for a few and some even stay largely hush hush for other reasons. But I absolutely emphasized India that did not. They'd be making about 800k over the tender and I'm sure the numbers will exceed that. So worry not, TONS of AKs are being manufactured even though you don't hear about it much. Yes at its core Russia is the country that makes the most AKs, but maybe it's China. And there are other smaller countries still making them.
ApprehensivePilot3@reddit
Bolt hold/button release sounds kinda useless to me. Like you can just insert new mag and pull charging handle.
HellblaueHoelle@reddit
Yeah, it's a relatively small thing and introduces more complexity into a system that wasn't build with that in mind. Zastava Oružije did some M70 prototypes with bolt hold-open, but they didn't make it onto the service rifle.
ApprehensivePilot3@reddit
Didn't Czech have something similar with their VZ58?
HellblaueHoelle@reddit
That has a bolt catch, but it's also a totally different design than the AK, it just looks similar.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Nothing wrong with that. Adding spring loaded doodads to a rifle doesn't make it better, but faster to reload. Spring loaded stuff will fail after a while and the spring needs to be replaced. And the question is, if that interferes with the function of the gun or not if it does fail.
Houndsthehorse@reddit
Its a very simple way to make reloading easier, especially in more awkward body position. Put in new bag and push a button is easier then pulling something all the way back under spring tension
Q-Ball7@reddit
AKs, and more importantly the tooling cost to make them, makes sense when your labor costs are low.
Once your country gets rich enough to where CNC machines are the cheaper option, AKs stop making sense and ARs dominate.
Then, once your country gets rich enough to where aluminum and plastic extrusion is the cheaper option, ARs stop making sense and post-AR designs dominate (ARX-160s and G36s, Bren/SCAR/Type 20).
Giterdunn1@reddit
They'll keep refining it until it ends up a Sig-553/563. That's what I did slowly over time, improving one little thing here and another there, then years later I realized my AKi (improved) is just a Sig-553.
TheGreatSockMan@reddit
Ultimately, I think it’s going to come down to what happens in Ukraine.
Civilian AK manufacturers are really just trying to recreate old models or add on rails for optics/LADs.
Militarily, I think the only company really making any updates/improvements to AKs is Russia. If the war doesn’t end favorably to them, they may not have the budget/ability to invest in that R&D. If the war ends really well for them, they’ll probably push some of their R&D designs to their military or to export models. Unfortunately for them, the war (and western militaries’s equipment performance against Russian systems) is making would be buyers look elsewhere for equipment
Ka1serTheRoll@reddit
If you count the Galil ACE as an AK, you can Vietnamese, Colombians, and Israelis as well on that.
teilani_a@reddit
More than that.
Ka1serTheRoll@reddit
Right but im talking about the 3 countries that I'm aware of that produce it, and now with Colombian-Israeli relations on the rocks it looks like those two countries will be developing thr rifle separately.
n1flung@reddit
There's also Ukrainian Malyuk that's currently limited in usage to mostly spec-ops but with further development can be viable enough for military roles where compact rifles are needed, like drivers, airborne and maybe even trench warfare
TheGreatSockMan@reddit
Unless Ukraine gets into exporting them to the civilian market post war, I think that’s dead in the water. Ukraine started moving away from Soviet guns/calibers right before the war, and while they did start using them to fill the void in the war, I fully expect them to dump any AK variant after the war and adopt something in a NATO standard caliber, probably the CZ Bren in 5.56 based on how they seem to really like that platform atm
SomeDudeNamedDavid@reddit
The AK-74 is as good as the AK platform can get, really. The AK-12 as it is currently is little more than an AK-74 underneath, but with some ergonomic improvements that have already existed for over a decade.
Mayes041@reddit
I think you've got it. As far as military use goes, the AK-74 and M16 may as well be interchangeable for their effectiveness. But by happenstance the AR adapted really well to tacking on accessories, that's why it's going to keep on serving in militaries that could choose another rifle if they wanted one. The AK simply doesn't lend itself as well to all the stuff we want to bolt onto guns these days. While firearms have been improving marginally, the various doodads end up making a difference and being able to inegrate those well in one of the proven operating mechanisms seems to be the ticket until there's some fundamental change in firearms. Doesn't really seem to make sense modify the AK, just pick something else
Cliffinati@reddit
The AK-12 is basically Milspec Zenitco on a 74M
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Milspec zenitco?!?!?!?
I sort of get why people would say that after airsoft replicas and Barwarus stuff.
SomeDudeNamedDavid@reddit
An AK-74 with Zenitco parts is leagues better than a stock AK-12
Cliffinati@reddit
Hence why i said milspec
RogueDok@reddit
The future is the SIG 55Xs. Otherwise it will always suffer from the same problems.
DrBadGuy1073@reddit
Obviously the BO3 KN-44 with long barrel, quickdraw & stock /S
YLCustomerService@reddit
My faithful companion on The Giant
Cliffinati@reddit
Replacing rivets with push pins where possible, tight dust covers that can actually mount optics.
Stocks that attach to the butt of the receiver and aren't riveted in.
M-loc handguards and barrel shrouds.
Basically the Sig-550 series with some upgrades
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Rivets are great fasteners and they are used to this day and will be used. Push pins are not fasteners but keepers.
Yeah the sig 550 system is great.
Brown_Colibri_705@reddit
I think the AKV-521 was shelved. The IWI Ace is probably the best of the modernized AKs. In order to make the AK truly optics-friendly, you'd have to make the top cover integral to the receiver i.e. AR/SCAR upper style. Is it still an AK at that point?
Cliffinati@reddit
Yeah the ACE and SIG 550 is the end product of the AK family
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
I don't know what's going on with the project, and no it wouldn't be an AK.
Cheap-Variation-9270@reddit
Kalashnikov died in 2013, in general, the current variation of the ak requires changing the cartridge to a cartridge with a larger bullet mass.
Cliffinati@reddit
The cartridge is the least of the issues the AK has compared to the AR in the 2020s
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
Which caliber?
Cheap-Variation-9270@reddit
New Russian cartridge 6.02*41
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
It's still in development.
Cheap-Variation-9270@reddit
There is a main cartridge, as far as I know, there is not yet a whole complex of tracer, incendiary, armor-piercing. If there will be a good subsonic cartridge, it can get rid of Val, Vintorez, and then, if you have a cartridge against drones, it will come in as a combined-arms one.
DerringerOfficial@reddit
Can’t say much about it from an engineering standpoint, but in terms of international interest, I think western arms are becoming increasingly popular on the global market. After the war, Ukraine seems most likely to standardize on domestically made CZ Brens or ARs, and European rifles have becoming increasingly common across Africa.
Jens_Fischer@reddit
I honestly think the AK platform is at the end of the line for its upgrade options now. AK12 and heavily modified 74M is about as "advanced" as the system can be now. Any other changes will probably just be on the gas operation and firing mechanism, which I guess makes it "not" an AK anymore?
CyberSoldat21@reddit
The future of the AK is the AR platform as evident by widespread adoption of the system.
SomeDudeNamedDavid@reddit
The AK-74M is as good as the AK platform can get, really. The AK-12 as it currently exists is just an AK-74 underneath, but with some ergonomic improvements that have already existed for over a decade before it's official introduction into the Russian military in 2018.
SomeDudeNamedDavid@reddit
In my opinion, the AK-74M is as good as the AK platform can get. The AK-12 as it currently exists is just an AK-74 underneath, but with some ergonomic improvements that have already existed for over a decade.
WelwitschiaTokarev@reddit
Ak 100 series with ak12 elements.
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
That's the 200 series for you.
WelwitschiaTokarev@reddit
Wow what a beautiful thing. I dont hate the trunions of ak12 though. I think they massively improved but Holy hell the integrated hinge is such a boost up on these puppies
StrangerOutrageous68@reddit (OP)
I'd take four, remove the handguard and put something better up front and be done with it.
WillingnessSmall3843@reddit
Noooo
AutoModerator@reddit
Understand the rules
Check the sidebar. It's full of resources to help you.
Not everyone is an expert such as yourself; be considerate.
No Spam. No Memes.
No political posts. Save that for /r/progun or /r/politics.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.