Indiana State Police select SIG P320 as next duty handgun
Posted by donniekrueger@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 150 comments
Indiana State Police are rolling out 1,350 new SIG Sauer P320 pistols to officers across the state.
Crafty-Awareness-580@reddit
It was a no brainer for them. They’ve been with sig for quite a while and carried the Sig P227 prior to this for a little over 10 years. I’m sure sig offered them a deal to trade in on top being a long time customer.
Bravoarmory@reddit
They probably got a hell of a deal on them.
Hkfn27@reddit
Somebody got a kickback. No way you select the p320 with all the issues surrounding it especially if you're in charge of procurement for a PD.
caterham09@reddit
Sig is really good at greasing people's pockets seemingly. They won literally every single US military contract despite having significant issues with 2 of the weapons.
Reesespeanuts@reddit
Bro army pistol contract. For the M17 to win over the Beretta APX while the M17 failed some of the tests while the APX never failed is clear indication of fraud.
donniekrueger@reddit (OP)
Maybe the M9 just left a bitter taste…. Everyone who chose Beretta last time was probably fired already. 😅
Positive_Stress3116@reddit
The “finals” were selected by price. The GAO basically said the program was a farce, in carefully watered down language. I do have to agree, the APX is ok, but not great. The M9 was awesome in reality. In my 21 years of service, those that bemoaned the M9 the most, never even carried or shot one.
donniekrueger@reddit (OP)
People bemoaning pistols they never carried or shot… is definitively a common occurrence 😆
Positive_Stress3116@reddit
I’ll never understand it. I try to only relate information from actual experience. I’ve shot a lot of firearms. Most of them perform just fine.
Ok_Storm_282@reddit
Regular Guy Training shat on the APX 🤣. APX fanboys on suicide watch after that video.
MulticamTropic@reddit
Except for the optic one. Vortex won that. But yeah, it’s a strange coincidence that the general who was in charge of the program retired and joined Sig’s board…
tonguejack-a-shitbox@reddit
Look at all the former US Army Marksmanship Unit soldiers who end up with Sig sponsorship and employment deals after they get out. For those that don't know, the USAMU has huge sway on which firearms get selected for the contracts.
Daniel Horner literally has "his own" p365 that they just released a few weeks back. He was one of I not the "most influential" members of the USAMU when the p320 was adopted by the Army.
proquo@reddit
The did win a contract for the Tango 6 though.
anonpasta666@reddit
Their mpx also failed to the APC9K
286893@reddit
Nobody is even trying to cover their tracks anymore with this stuff.
If you look into it there's a suspicious amount of people that were key players in the contract that went to a very specific area in the private sector just after it was won.
EdgarsRavens@reddit
If I was an LEO I’d refuse to carry a P320. I’d take it, if I had to, but I’d get a Glock 19 with my own money and carry that myself.
smithywesson@reddit
Most places will not let you do that, but I’d sure as hell put the request in writing and state my reasoning. If you did have a sigcident after that it would probably help you toward an early retirement
permabanned36@reddit
I’d get anything else , shit is too cheap not to , idc what their salary is that’s affordable enough considering the risks present
Rob_Zander@reddit
It's interesting when you look at price too. I bet Sig is significantly less for a 320 than Glock is right now. I know the grip frame sizes can be attractive for better fit but I don't know how many departments are genuinely making different sizes available.
jacgren@reddit
Gov cost to the Army is about $200 a pistol, so significantly cheaper than most other competitors, even with discounts
proquo@reddit
Sig sold the 320 at a loss to the military counting on making it up in civilian sales and law enforcement contracts.
DrunkenArmadillo@reddit
I bet that is backfiring on them right now.
proquo@reddit
Nope. LEOs are clearly still adopting them, they just scored a contract for the Swiss military, and the US military doesn't look likely to drop them any time soon.
donniekrueger@reddit (OP)
Maybe not… https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/s/tAlXQJrxyo
DrunkenArmadillo@reddit
Yeah, that was the next thread I clicked on.
NotesPowder@reddit
Cope. Coming up with a grand conspiracy theory because you can't imagine why a PD would rely on Sig's engineering rather than internet rumors.
proquo@reddit
What's that?
NotesPowder@reddit
People with engineering degrees and years of work in the firearms industry.
proquo@reddit
How does an engineering degree prevent a MIM part from having a wide tolerance and poor quality assurance?
Also, you are tracking that the engineers and experts that built Sig were in Europe, and the ones in America are the ones that made the P320 and tanked the reputation?
Hkfn27@reddit
Found the sig shill
NotesPowder@reddit
I wish. Instead I'm stuck arguing with idiots on reddit for free.
demoncrusher@reddit
The only issues are allegations. The US military has about a half a million of these things, and rates of accidental discharges are roughly the same as with prior service pistols.
KeepandBearMemes@reddit
The original drop safety issue is not an allegation. The multiple redesigns of the 320 internals is not an allegation. The MIM internals from india is not an allegation. The lack of a trigger safety on a fully cocked striker fired pistol is not an allegation.
The accuracy issue with high velocity .277 ammo on the spear is not an allegation. The ridiculous weight of the spear isnt an allegation.
There are more problems that are an absolute fact that i cant remember right now. Do you really believe there is no problem? Would you appendix carry a p320?
demoncrusher@reddit
The drop safety issue has been resolved for years. The rest of these are not serious problems with the P320. I wouldn’t appendix carry anything because I know the safety rules and I’m not going to point a gun at my dick.
proquo@reddit
Fudd take.
demoncrusher@reddit
It’s your dick, point a gun at it if you want
FlapperGasfire@reddit
Apparently you don't
demoncrusher@reddit
Aiming right at my dick isn’t a safe direction. Y’all are nuts if you think otherwise
NotesPowder@reddit
M17 and M18 pistols were not mass issued until after the voluntary upgrade program. It's also not what people are talking about.
There was only one major redesign (the aforementioned voluntary upgrade program). All other smaller design tweaks are expected from a mature product (every other major pistol in production does this) and don't majorly affect the function of the P320.
I don't care, why do you?
Neither does the P365, but it magically doesn't matter there.
Not even the same gun. Did you have so few arguments that you had to resort to criticizing a completely different firearm?
Apparently yes.
KeepandBearMemes@reddit
So they were issued with a major problem
You realize that is a fucking joke right? Should have been a mandatory recall
You dont know what the fuck you are talking about. There are multiple vids of sigs from various years of production that have SIGNIFICANT changes to the internals. These are ghost "upgrades" that sig wont admit to, but are easily seen if you have p320's from different years. This is well known, but you dont know, because you are a sig simp that hasnt looked into the facts on this matter
Fucking india quality on parts that shouldnt be mim with no quality control on sigs part, so yea i care
Its had a shitload of other problems and ghost upgrades aswell, its not a good gun, but yea it uses a completely different striker system that doesnt go off on its own, congrats
Im referencing multiple sig guns that have major contracts with major problems
Yea the problems with this gun are so many and have been a thing for so long that i cant even remember all the problems with this absolute piece of shit gun that has been banned from multiple public ranges and police ranges. More lawsuits than any other gun in recent memory. Payoffs, guns exploding, guns going off on their own. A bad conversion of a da/sa into a striker. Literally a meme in the gun community. Sights flying off guns. A high ratio of military guns going down for various reasons during training. Military investigation finding like 10% of the inventory having problems
Shove your p320 up your ass and pray it doesnt fire on its own. There are to many better service pistols to list, the p320 is bottom of the barrel trash. Lowest bidder backroom deal trash.
Dr_ChungusAmungus@reddit
You are 100% right but Reddit hates SIGs, and they are violently ignorant to the P320. They will still argue that the navy discharge was the gun even after there is a man in jail who was found to be responsible.
DrusTheAxe@reddit
What’s the .277 issue? First I’ve heard
pcpgivesmewings@reddit
Look for the new motorhome in the parking lot.
Reesespeanuts@reddit
Yeah clearly. Forensic Accountants need to get on that.
Inspi@reddit
The only thing the military fears more than commies are qualified accountants.
grey487@reddit
This is Indiana. Of course its corrupt.
PTKtm@reddit
Plausible deniability
ScottBroChill69@reddit
Damn, thats exactly what I was thinking. Kinda fucked if thats what it is lol
PM-ME-UR-DESKTOP@reddit
Maybe they’re like big Pharma where they start wining, dining, and wiring money to get these contracts secured
Weird_Affect_1654@reddit
Do they still use Internet explorer too?
SpeakUpOhShutUp@reddit
Hotmail
nerodiskburner@reddit
Lol just realized glock is the iphone of handguns.
DamienKane33@reddit
And crown vics!
Easterncoaster@reddit
Why does everyone in this town use Alta Vista?!
sofa_king_awesome@reddit
They prefer Netscape navigator
Crohn85@reddit
I liked Netscape Navigator back in the day.
Inspi@reddit
That would be the smart option back then.
Weird_Affect_1654@reddit
“Chief! Get off the internet. I have to call my wife.”
mandreko@reddit
As an IT person in Indiana, I’m fairly sure that the locals here are still “new to computers”. We’ve been very slow to adopt anything.
Weird_Affect_1654@reddit
Like Scotland.
TheHeroChronic@reddit
they store everting on the 5.5" floppys
DarthMonkey212313@reddit
What kind of crazy futurist are you? They are still using the 8" ones.
Weird_Affect_1654@reddit
Like number crunchers… which they use to catch white collar criminals.
Automatic_Analyst_20@reddit
Lol you can hear in their bodycam videos that they still use Internet explorer based on error videos in MDC
cha0scypher@reddit
"You mean there are other internets?"
-Casey Anthony investigators, probably
sparkypme@reddit
ND’s for everyone!
SlateBlueSporting@reddit
More than likely this is a, “It’s what the Army uses, thus, good enough for us, too.”
I don’t know what the commercial rates are, but if you’re buying 1,350 handguns and Glocks are $520 apiece (Blue Label price) vs SIG P320s being $350, we are talking $702,000 for Glocks vs $472,500 for SIG. That $229,500 difference is probably the entire ammunition allotment for those 1,350 State Police officers for the year.
Another thing I know SIG does really well as a business is they are like a one-stop shop. They will bundle optics, holsters, mags, weapon lights, and ammo super cheap for these Agencies whereas Glock basically says, “Buy a $1,300 COA and get the fuck out of here.”
People online act like they can’t believe people still buy these, but honestly SIG makes it hard NOT to choose them in a straight-stick procurement exercise.
proquo@reddit
A lot of law enforcement agencies will fast track procurement by copying military or federal contracts. Saves time, money and expertise on having in-house evaluations.
DickNose-TurdWaffle@reddit
Certain brranches of the military already removed the gun from duty though?
proquo@reddit
No, the USAF briefly suspended its use for security forces but I think it's been reinstated. Certain USMC units made plans to potentially end use of the M18 but I don't think ever followed through. The military has announced it doesn't plan to replace them any time soon.
ThatBadFeel@reddit
You get what you pay for. Buyer beware. All of those rules apply to each of our purchases.
Easterncoaster@reddit
How much does it cost taxpayers when a cop shoots himself in the leg while holstering his duty weapon? Probably enough to cover the spread…
OhmyMary@reddit
WHY?
no-lift@reddit
Who greased the palms
fishman15151515@reddit
“First of all you are going to have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. the kickbacks to the carpenters, and if you plan on using any cement in this building I'm sure the teamsters would like to have a little chat with ya, and that'll cost ya. a little something for the building inspectors. long term costs such as waste disposal. who runs that business but I assure you it's not the boyscouts.”
fishman15151515@reddit
Heffboom_Konijn@reddit
Ooof, they get jumpy around falling acorns. So arming them with self discharging sidearms is totally the right call
United_States_Eagle@reddit
How the hell does Sig have the deepest pockets? Come on Glock
SethmonGold@reddit
They gonna get sued when someone looses a toe, and they'll lose.
Ok_Storm_282@reddit
"State dont want to pay for our rifles so we gone get one of yee suckers to take a bullet."
futilehabit@reddit
Like they care about lawsuits? It doesn't come out of their bank accounts or budget.
Possible_Visit_9551@reddit
It’s all about price guys. At the rate SIG is shitting these out at, a lot of manufacturers are having a hard time underbidding that bottom feeder of a company
Ok_Storm_282@reddit
Yea if we're to go by that number they gave out. Its $800 for the p320, Romeo X Sig Loc optic, holster and maybe a sig light.
Compare that to a gen5/gen6 glock with a COA its a $500 dollar difference. They're really the only competitor in town that sells as a package.
SetNo8186@reddit
Would like to see a teardown side by side with a retail P320. Piece by piece.
I wonder if the Glock Gen 6 was the submission or not. Anyone have access to the testing protocols and what were submitted?
donniekrueger@reddit (OP)
“In 2023, when we knew Sig was going to discontinue the firearm we are using, we began an explorative process to find a viable replacement,” said Indiana State Police Capt. Ron Galaviz.
Capt. Galaviz says ISP researched seven different firearm options from three manufacturers, plus the agency conducted all kinds of tests.
https://www.wrtv.com/news/wrtv-investigates/indiana-state-police-spend-1-17m-on-new-guns-amid-national-safety-concerns-about-firearm
donniekrueger@reddit (OP)
Here is a 3rd-party teardown and evaluation of the P320 safety mechanisms https://youtu.be/dPKMu47uWXQ
Gremguy22@reddit
They went from Sig P227s to P320s. What a utter downgrade.
december151791@reddit
Are they gonna use Ford Pintos for their squad cars too?
Pjb7490@reddit
Ah f*ck this was funny 😂😂😂
TitusXd40@reddit
Even though I have a P226 Legion, I don't really mean to defend Sig. But lately, I haven't heard as much about the P320 issues. I'm on Reddit daily so I normally see a lot of the Sig stuff that gets posted. Have they taken steps to fix this? Kept it quiet?
I dunno. I don't live in Indiana and I don't have any plans to buy a P320 so this doesn't affect me at all. Just asking questions.
donniekrueger@reddit (OP)
The article did not indicate any changes to the P320 for the ISP deployment.
TitusXd40@reddit
I was reading comments and forgot to read the article! 🤣 Hopefully ISP doesn't have any issues and SIG gets those things figured out.
HK_Bandit95@reddit
Honest question how is Sigs quality with their other offerings, aside from the p320 issue? Mainly the newer P226 they released last year.
proquo@reddit
Their legacy guns like the 226/229 are just fine. It's their new stuff that has constant issues.
RacerXrated@reddit
No idea, but I wouldn't support the company out of principle for a number of reasons.
hitemlow@reddit
It's wild that a company with military contracts seemingly cares less about their customers than Kel-Tec and Taurus. Because at least those two know how to issue a recall when they identify a defect.
Ok-Fisherman-7688@reddit
I got a P229 manufactured in 2021; it still has the same durability and reliability that made SIG a respected name.
Verum14@reddit
I’m pleased with my 365 XL and still carry it almost daily.
Been eyeing a 226 myself.
But as the other guy says, a lot of people are avoiding on principle rather than known safety concerns with the other lineups
Ok-Fisherman-7688@reddit
The P226 is still great option!
mb4_epn187@reddit
Fucking WHY though?
Inevitable-Sleep-907@reddit
Deflect responsibility from officers on bad shoots
mb4_epn187@reddit
Ah, now you’re thinking
corvettee01@reddit
We didn't shoot the unarmed man in the back five times, it was Sig's fault.
Clear-Brilliant-355@reddit
Yk, surprise the enemy
Fold_According@reddit
“extensive testing, including thousands of rounds fired”
Thousands of rounds is extensive testing?
Random-Cpl@reddit
Thousands of rounds fired, both on and off the range, inside and outside of holsters
Pubics_Cube@reddit
Thousands of rounds before they left the holster
No-Produce7606@reddit
That, and it's not like they had a problem with them firing when you pull the trigger lol
cha0scypher@reddit
Shit, I call that a training weekend
vorpalsword92@reddit
ah the thigh aerator 3000
awesome_jackob123@reddit
What a shame to phase out the P227 with the P320. One of the best to ever do it is being replaced by the most hotly contested gun on the market.
Those PD trade 227s about to roll out though
tubadude2@reddit
I got a sweet NOS one from Acme a couple months ago. It’s a sweet shooter. I can get behind switching to 9mm, but a 320 is a significant downgrade.
gordonfactor@reddit
I love my P227. It's a shame they stopped making them.
CosMemedoza@reddit
They already have been here and there. I got mine without the state police engraving. I don’t carry it as often as I’d like admittedly but as an Sig P series fan, it’s too cool not to have in my collection.
awesome_jackob123@reddit
What a shame to phase out the P227 with the P320. One of the best to ever do it is being replaced by the most hotly contested gun on the market.
I got mine last January right before ISP engraved ones started to roll out. I’m a P22X fan and an Indiana native. If it wouldn’t have been a 2 hour trip to a gun shop, I’d have picked up another.
Many years ago I found a PD trade from a college in Michigan with an engraving. I didn’t want to give a thousand for it though.
shamooo415@reddit
seanprefect@reddit
870 bucks per pistol/holster seems pretty freaking steep
DayManFOTNightMan@reddit
I wonder if it’s the version with a thumb safety?
That would presumably help the with the reholstering issues.
I ran a 320 XCarry for action pistol until a couple years ago, and while I never had any issues with it, I was never comfortable carrying it outside of a range environment where I knew I could be focused entirely on the gun.
My 365 w/safety doesn’t bother me.
DocGerald@reddit
The alleged issue with the 320 has to do with the sear, a safety does nothing to mitigate it.
NotesPowder@reddit
On the internet maybe. Multiple lawsuits (and nearly all the successful ones) have focused around the fact that the gun is offered with a light, short trigger without an external safety. The NH and Florida immunity bills are literally written around the lack of an external safety.
DayManFOTNightMan@reddit
That’s the “alleged” and debatable issue that - if true - probably only applies to a limited number via tolerance stacking.
I don’t know enough about the particulars to comment either way.
The fact that it’s super easy to hit the trigger unintentionally if you’re not paying attention is a definite issue and applies to all of them.
Maybe there are some spontaneous discharges, but I can’t imagine that number isn’t dwarfed by the number of NDs relating to the light trigger and lack of external safety on most models.
Definitely weird time to be picking up a new contract either way.
Any-Can-6776@reddit
Manual safety doesn’t bother me none. I find it where that people say they suck when every long gun has one
wunder911@reddit
you carry long guns in a kydex holster?
Any-Can-6776@reddit
You don’t?
DayManFOTNightMan@reddit
I don’t mind them. I prefer DA/SA, but hitting a safety is pretty easy to train for.
Any-Can-6776@reddit
Very easy.
Dharma_code@reddit
not-a-co-conspirator@reddit
Who did Sig bribe for this to happen?
Youwillgotosleep_@reddit
What better excuse for cops to “accidentally” shoot people.
WoodEyeLie2U@reddit
They probably got a good deal on some recent trade-ins.
alternative5@reddit
Are you forced to carry a department issued duty weapon, or can you opt out and buy your own service pistol? I see alot of cops in LA rocking 2011s these days.
2Drogdar2Furious@reddit
This is awesome... cant wait to see move videos of "unexplained" discharges 😀
hitemlow@reddit
Same PD that chose Dodge Durangos with insufficient transmissions(?) that were constantly in the shop....
TheHancock@reddit
dovahbe4r@reddit
Sig HAS to be trying to move these pieces of shit. Kickbacks, deep price cuts, whatever or however it works. ISP used to be issued 227s before they got discontinued so it makes zero sense to move to the 320 over the 226 considering they already had the budget for 227s.
IrateBarnacle@reddit
Sig is literally paying the ISP to take this garbage out of their hands.
Valuable_Cause9119@reddit
I’d expect this out of Minnesota where safety doesn’t matter as much as kickbacks
Additional_Dish_694@reddit
Sig is so shady it is honestly hilarious.
RacerXrated@reddit
I hope they're allowed to carry their own pistol.
burner456987123@reddit
I hope the existing officers can be grandfathered into keeping their old duty weapons. I assume the “retired” models are p22x series?
dovahbe4r@reddit
Yes, they’re moving away from the 227 because Sig discontinued it.
sixtysecdragon@reddit
I own p320 legion. Love it. Shoots amazingly.
But not carrying it anywhere. And there are so many equivalent options that don’t have the questionable history.
Underwater_Karma@reddit
I bet they got them VERY cheap
number__ten@reddit
Plausible deniability?
"I swear it just went off ten times into the suspect's back"
lateread9er@reddit
Makes sense. Indiana being unaware of any concerns…..
LexingtonPatriot1775@reddit
They about to “skrrrrrt” all shootings with “wasn’t the officer”
Tballz9@reddit
Switzerland just signed up for 140,000 pistoles of the SIG 320 X carry variant. This is to replace to p75 SIG220. I believe these 320 models will be produced in Switzerland as part of the contract terms.
vkbrian@reddit
EntrySure1350@reddit
🫠
Threather19@reddit
Oof