Most reverts to Islam are girls. Try to do something with your life instead of lying on a major religion and villinizing its adherents online. Who are you to basically claim that Muslim women are slaves? You're just an ignoramus trying to feel better about yourself online.
I mean you could try shooting a report but I doubt it'd do much. The people here only say these things because they don't have anything else of much importance going on in their lives
Well, they'll stone you when you're trying to be so good
They'll stone you just like they said they would
They'll stone you when you're trying to go home
And they'll stone you when you're there all alone
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned
It was a lot more before it was optimized for shareholder value. Now it's just engagement bait and shoving ads in places our forefathers could have never imagined.
But how did the women covering themselves become popular among men? Like if you're the big boss man in your society, wouldn't it be annoying that you basically can't see any hot chicks anywhere and men and women are often separated in many social settings? I just can't see how that wouldn't completely suck ass lol. Have to go through life with 99% of titties and ass being redacted.
Because if you see a woman with her eyes/ankles/hair/etc uncovered, you'll have no choice but to rape her. So obviously, the game is to keep your women covered and safely at home, guarded by other family members, while also scouring the streets for someone else's wives and daughters to rape.
It's Islamic capture the flag. If your area runs out of people to play with, just invade other countries and force them to play.
two fold, mate guarding and ease of finding mates.
basically in the earlier days and up until reciently muslim marriage was easy, so you can marry with ease and at a young age and sometimes but rarely have multiple wives.
but the other thing is they want to mate guard and own the woman and if every dude want to do that it'll result with women wearing tents.
I mean you have tons of guys in America that get mad when their girlfriends/wives go out with their friends dressed all slutty.
They don’t want other guys looking at their women. They can dress slutty for them at home
Which part is that? When women were given inheritance rights while christian women were inherited as property? Or that a women is encouraged to cover her body from strage men while modern society encourages women to reveal more skin to be more free. Which part exactly?
Your society has nothing to tell anyone about moral values. The average age a girl loses her virginity is around 15. Your grandmothers were married and had kids by that age. The line keeps moving. Btw she was betrothed at 6 not married. Learn your propaganda well
>"And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. "
This is a note of Paul referencing the Cult of Artemis in Ephesus which had big congregation of women and women preachers. Also it's important to literally quote what he said next.
>For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control."
He literally in the next sentence quotes the tenants of Christianity by saying that women will be saved if they embrace their motherly role, love and holiness which could be said the same for men.
>Just because god raped a woman and used her as a breeding vessel in your story doesn't make it a not sexist story.
Lol, lmao even. Written like an atheist keyboard warrior.
She agreed to it.
>And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. For with God nothing shall be impossible. **And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.** And the angel departed from her.
- Luke 1:30-38
I'm responding to this:
>"For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control."
-
> He literally in the next sentence quotes the tenants of Christianity by saying that women will be saved if they embrace their motherly role, love and holiness which could be said the same for men.
So I'll ask again due to the misunderstanding, what happens to the women disinterested in pumping out more christians?
>what happens to the women disinterested in pumping out more christians?
You're focusing on the individual while Paul speaks about humanity as a whole. I'll answer literally then if women (and men) are disinterested in as you said pumping out more Christians then humanity dies out so obviously he would want to encourage this.
Parenthood is a big part of a persons life, Paul speaks specifically about women here but it can be referred to men too, if you are a good parent, love and remain holy and patient aka a good person you will obviously be saved, it's really not complicated.
But to directly answer your question, if said person remains true to the tenants of Christianity aka loves they will be saved.
I mean before Islam, women were treated like cattle. Islam kinda forced them to marry the women and treat them like pets. So I guess it was a little improvement for the time.
Arent other supposedly better religions only better because their modern followers decided that not all parts of holy texts should be taken literally and when the God says "kill kill kill", its just an alegory and if you dont understand it, its because you are stupid and uneducated.
>It’s a religion where men are the boss man and women are basically slaves that’s why it got popular
Can't wait when it's going to be popular in the Western countries. /s
Well you should have seen the conditions for women before Islam. Islam gave women rights that took the western world more than a thousand years to give
Islam- muslims was predicted in the Bible:
KJV: But I say, -- I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a **foolish nation** I will anger you.
KJV: They have moved Me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked Me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a **foolish nation.**
I'm always curious if people read through all the gospels when they say stuff like Jesus was a cool dude.
Jesus told parables about beating\[Luke 12:47\] and torturing slaves\[Matt 18:34\], he said you wouldn't thank a slave for only doing what's asked of them\[Luke 17:9\], he healed the centurions slave after being told the slave was obedient\[Luke 7\]. In the parable of the ten minas or talents, the slave which makes the least return on investment is punished\[Matthew 25:14–30, Luke 19:11–27\].
Jesus said that Jews who don't believe in him are a generation of vipers\[Matthew 3:7 , Matthew 12:34\], he said they're the sons of Satan who do his bidding\[john 8:44\].
Jesus says you need to hate your family and your own life to be his follower\[Luke 14:26\].
Jesus tells a parable about himself where at the end he says to bring his enemies before him and kill them\[Luke 19:27\].
Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace but a sword\[Matthew 10:34-36\].
Jesus talked about how it will be worse than Sodom and Gomorrah to be in the cities that don't convert on judgement day\[Matthew 10:15\].
Jesus says to that not a jot nor a tittle should be removed from the old testament law until heaven and earth pass away and all things are accomplished\[Matthew 5:18\]. As in, Jesus commanded his followers to obey the old testament commandments, which are heinous. And he says to follow the words of the Pharisees\[Matt 23:3\]. (As in he agreed with the Pharisees in word, but the Pharisees didn't practice what they preach).
Jesus commanded a leper to sacrifice birds in the temple\[Mark 1:44\].
When asked if a guy could bury his father before following him, Jesus said "let the dead bury the dead"\[matt 8:21-22\].
Jesus called Canaanites dogs, (Canaanites had a genealogical curse to be slaves of slaves)\[Matthew 15:21-28,Mark 7:24-30\].
Jesus said he spoke in parables to confuse people, because otherwise people would understand his meaning, and they would be saved\[Marky 4:12\].
Jesus says don't wash your hands before you eat\[Matt 15\].
If you include the apocrypha. Jesus says women need to become men to get into heaven\[Thomas 114\], Jesus kills childhood friends\[Infancy Gospel 2:3\].
There's the blood curse where Jews supposedly take responsibility for the death of Jesus\[Matthew 27:25\]
There's the cleansing of the temple where Jesus violently attacks innocent sellers and currency exchangers who were providing a necessary service for the temple so that Jews could make their required sacrifices and pay their taxes in the correct currency. Travelers coming to the temple needed those services.\[Mark 11:15-18,Luke 19:45-47,John 2:14-16\]
When Jesus is asked about why he lets himself be annointed with a large quantity of oil, which could be sold for lots of money (approximately a years wages, so roughly maybe 50k in today's money) to help the poor, he says you'll always have the poor, but you'll not always have me.\[Matthew 26:11 and John 12:8\]
Lastly, if you truly believe Jesus is God, then Jesus flooded the world to kill it's inhabitants, he commanded child sacrifice, he commanded genocide, he used bleeding as a virginity test for women, he directly commanded chattel slavery, etc... If you believe in the book of revelations, then Jesus rides around on a horse with a sword sticking out of his mouth killing people. And there will be floods of blood from the winepress, where the blood is as high as a horses girdle for \~184 miles.
If I said or did half of those things, I wouldn't expect people to call me cool. And he did and said a lot of uncool shit. If we just clip out the nice things Jesus said, we get a nice highlight reel, but his highlight reel of awful things he said is pretty long as well. For me it's hard to look at a flawed character like Jesus and boil him down to a cool dude.
Were you aware of this kinda stuff? Have you read through the bible or the gospels? I'm not trying to pry, just curious about it.
A lot of those are very much metaphoric. Aramaic is a very poetic language that contains lots of metaphor and hyperbole. For example, Jesus doesn't *literally* expect you to hate your family to follow him, he is illustrating how you are to pick him over all else.
And some of these are outright misleading. The phrase "Jesus called Canaanites dogs" is flat-out false. The woman calls *herself* a dog to illustrate what she is compared to Jesus. Read it again.
What you are 100% correct about is how Jesus is not some hippie who just wants us "to all love each other and be vaguely good people man." He's pretty clear about following God, and the consequences of separating yourself from God and the laws of God.
The Gospels record a number of instances where Jesus did commit acts of violence.
1. Whip in hand, causing a fracas, he attacked the merchants in the Temple area (Matthew 21:12, Mark 11:15-16, Luke 19:45, John 2:15).
2. He destroyed a fig tree for not having fruit out of season (Matthew 21:18-21, Mark 11:13-14).
3. He caused the death, by drowning, of a herd of swine by allowing demons to purposely enter their bodies (Matthew 8:32, Mark 5:13, Luke 8:33).
Biblically, it would not matter if Jesus actions were justified. The question is, “Did this individual literally perform violent acts?” All New Testament applications of Isaiah 53 to Jesus presume a literal fulfillment. A literal application to Jesus of the phrase “he had done no violence” is not possible. The Gospels inadvertently indicate that forms of violence were perpetrated by Jesus. By the very fact that an individual committed violent acts, even if they can be justified, he does not qualify as one having done no violence. These are acts of violence under any circumstance and if applied literally to an individual that person could not be the fulfillment of verse Jesus’ acts of violence demonstrate that he did not literally fulfill this description of the servant as prescribed by the New Testament citations of Isaiah 53. On the other hand, Israel as a corporate entity has, in the overall course of its history, sought to avoid violence Christians provide novel reasons for Jesus’ destructive actions, but they still remain acts of violence. All the excuses cannot hide the fact that these violent acts disqualify Jesus from being the servant.
One cannot excuse his actions as those of a supernatural being, who allegedly had the authority to do as he pleased. Do what he will, Jesus would still be disqualified from being the servant. Jesus was not adverse to using violence and held no general principle against violent action. If Jesus was truly non-violent he could not have uttered his call to family strife and divisiveness. He proudly avowed that his is a mission which will cause discord and disturb the universal peace and bring war to the world (Matthew 10:34-35, Luke 12:49-53). Jesus called for his opponents to be brought before him for summary execution. He declared: “But these enemies of mine who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here, and slay them in my presence” (Luke 19:27). The use of violence is not always an act of evil. But, in exploring the teachings of Jesus, we are not just dealing with his physical violence, but also with a philosophy of violence.
When one is a teacher, especially when one is considered an authoritative teacher to his followers who’s every word has power to transform into actions how one acts is as important as what one teaches. And if you teach and do violent actions—you are violent! Could Jesus have preached violence or hated anyone when he spoke words of forgiveness and non-resistance to wickedness? Did he not say: “Love your enemies” (Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:27), “Do not resist him that is wicked; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also” (Matthew 5:39) and, alternately: “To him that strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also” (Luke 6:29)? These verses are taken as representative of the extraordinary forgiveness supposedly taught and exercised by Jesus himself. However, “turn the other cheek” was not practiced by Jesus himself. Jesus, it is said, preached turning the other cheek, loving one’s neighbor and praying for them, and forgiving those who wrong you. But, when did Jesus manifest such behavior in his personal relationships, during his lifetime? Was it his cursing of the Pharisees (Matthew 23), his threat of violent retribution on cities that rejected his message (Matthew 11:20-24, Luke 10:13-15), or his condemnation to death of Jews who would not accept him (Luke 19:27)? Jesus himself never turned the other cheek. He never forgave anyone who rejected his claims. He never forgave anyone who wronged or criticized him. He responded to his opponents, not with passive resistance, but by answering criticism with criticism, and by reviling and threatening his adversaries. John’s Jesus, when beaten by an officer, instead of offering quietly his other cheek argues with him (John 18:22-23).
Yeah, most of the points the other guy made are just straight ignorance, and some of them are just straight up true and not a negative. Matthew 3 isn't even Jesus speaking, it's Johnny Baptizer, and it was specifically the *priests and leaders of the Jews who were promoting false teaching*. Matthew 15 is Socratic questioning to arrive at the importance of faith. Jews at the time were *supposed* to sacrifice at the temple. "If you include the apocrypha" *there's a reason we don't*.
It's ok, middle school can be hard, but people can grow.
Jesus completely endorsed that guy by being baptized by him, probably the strongest endorsement of anyone in the new testament to be honest. It's really not unreasonable for anything he says to be literally taken as word of god. The 'false teachings' John the Baptizer is talking about is not believing in 'judgement day is immediately upon us' Messianism, among other things. 2000 years later and we're still waiting. I guess it checks out that god would operate on geological timescales.
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Satan masquerades as an angel of light and Muhammad met with him in that cave when he masqueraded as angel Gabriel. He then blasphemed against Jesus, and Muhammad lapped it up. Islam is not just another religion, it was purposefully created by Satan to undermine Christianity.
>Satan masquerades as an angel of light and Muhammad met with him in that cave when he masqueraded as angel Gabriel.
So Satan pushed Muhammad and mankind to seek education and to learn to read and write? Is that what you're saying?
>Islam is not just another religion, it was purposefully created by Satan to undermine Christianity.
Funny take considering what the Quran says about Christians and how they are to be trusted for Christians have priests and seek wisdom and have good hearts lol
The "Jesus" presented in the Quran is *not* the Jesus of the Bible. At minimum in Islam he's a false prophet, since according to Ibn Abbas, "Jesus" scapegoated one of his disciples on the cross and ascended to heaven *before* the crucifixion, which makes him a liar since he repeatedly predicted His own death.
You are a heathen if you deny the divinity and supremacy of the all-father, the unworthy shall be denied access to Valhalla.
I will sacrifice a goat and fine mead at next prayer offering so you may find your way back to the one true path and avoid being cast into Helheim.
/> What shall you do to see if Jesus rewards you?
idk don’t sin, fast, pray every night, go to church every Sunday or (Saturday), idk man just read the bible.
It is, there are an incredible amount of unplannable coincidences, Luke is casually accurate about specific Roman culture and bureaucracy that would've been unresearchable, and even gets some geography more accurate than the available maps of the time. The *claims* may be up for debate for some, but claiming the New Testament isn't a historical document is just pigheaded ignorance.
Yes, my point was that the guy who linked that was making a point about the bible not being historic and they shared that link which says the historic part (New Testament) is…
There are literally 0 unplannable coincidences.
The New Testament is a historical document in the same way the Bhagavad Gita is.
Written well after the events they claim to report on, by people who did not witness them, and who were provably willing to bend facts to fit a narrative.
Different genres: The Bhagavad Gita is part of the Mahabharata, an epic poem centered on philosophy and dharma. The New Testament, specifically specifically the Gospels and Acts, is written in the style of Greco-Roman Biography (Bioi).
The NT writers name specific Roman governors (Pilate), Jewish kings (Herod), and local landmarks that have been verified by archaeology. Epics usually take place in a "mythic past"; the NT is firmly rooted in 1st-century Mediterranean politics.
Regarding your argument about historic documents, they don’t have to be written by witnesses or contemporary to facts, to he considered historic. Most of what we know about Alexander the Great was written by Arrian and Plutarch about 400 years after his death.
Most scholars date the NT books between 20 to 60 years after Jesus’ death. In the world of ancient historiography, that is considered a "blink of an eye." It means the documents were circulating while eyewitnesses were still alive to refute or confirm them.
Even if one questions the Gospels, the Letters of Paul are almost universally accepted by secular historians as authentic 1st-century documents.
Paul was writing within 15–25 years of the crucifixion. He mentions meeting Jesus’ brother (James) and his lead disciple (Peter). This provides a direct link to the inner circle of the movement that most mythic texts lack.
A common historical test is the Criterion of Embarrassment. If you are "bending facts to fit a narrative," you don't invent details that make your movement look bad.
The NT records the lead disciples being cowards, doubting the resurrection, and arguing over status.
Crucially, it claims women (whose testimony was legally invalid at the time) were the first witnesses to the resurrection. If you were "faking" a narrative in the 1st century, you wouldn’t choose female witnesses.
You can argue that while the NT writers certainly had a theological "agenda," that doesn't make the documents non-historical. In the ancient world, everyone wrote with a purpose… the job of the historian is to peel back the bias, not throw out the data entirely.
If I remember right, Odin and many other nephelim are mentioned in the book of Enoch. Which describes more in detail the time period when angels abandoned heaven to go fuck big tiddy earth women. Their children, the nephelim, were famous powerful beings known all across the world. And the children of the nephelim became the race of giants who once walked the earth before Tartaria killed them all
> book of Enoch
Not canon for 99%+ of Jews and Christians, worth noting, pretty much only Beta Israel and Ethiopian Orthodox consider it anything more than Hebrew commentary. Basically historical Chicken Soup for the Soul.
The Mormon fella? You know he was a high degree freemason and in the blood cult of Molech worship.
Also descended from the Rothschild family. Surprise surprise.
The guy participated in the ritual sacrifice of children to molech/baal. As all high degree freemasons are required to do. As has been the Jewish tradition since forever
Assumptions assumptions, if (you) actually looked into it and read (I know (you) cant) about it, (you) would know that there’s a high probability that they were maybe involved in his lynching.
Tell me you don't know anything without telling me you don't know anything.
So, I've actually read both of these books, and the Quran is the more sensible one by FAR.
The bible contains specific regulations for animal sacrifice and exactly how to torture and kill your wife for a litany of crimes that include the wife coming indoors and not being kept with the animals while she's menstruating. Down to how many birds and animals and what type to kill, how to kill them, and how to burn them in offering.
The bible is a really mixed bag. All its books are really different. You have bizarre fantastical genealogies where people are hundreds of years old, and that are really boring to read because they are just lists of people and their progeny, like in numbers. You have pretty disordered rambling gospels like in Matthew. You have interesting stories of self sacrifice like in ruth. You have really humanist gospels like in Luke. You have really cool almost zen philosphy like in ecclesiastes. You have a bunch of really bizarre fantastical monsters. you have a whole lot of really awful moral takes. you have a whole bunch of purity laws and animals and things you aren't suppose to eat.
The Quran is mostly pretty sensible (by comparison anyway, i mean, they both do endorse slavery and beating our wife at the end of the day), far more progressive (it was written a lot more recently in fairness). The bulk of it is kind of poetry, more or less. It's a lot more cohesive, and actually reads as a unified work.
You expect people on r/4chan to read up on the religion they’re already predisposed to hate and educate themselves before making baseless and basically racist conclusions? You might as well try teaching geometry to a dog, you’d be more successful in that.
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Gonna be tough to debate on this since everyone here seems to be well opiniated against the religion.
\>Claims to be the final prophet of God: correct. Muhammad was even confirmed by a Jewish rabbi who said Muhammad matched signs of prophethood found in Jewish scripture. The rabbi later converted to Islam known as Abdullah ibn Salam.
\>No other prophet foretold his coming: this part is deceptive as there are countless prophets, some of which aren't named anywhere because the purpose of a prophet is to share the message of God. What matters is the message.
\>Illiterate: that's the point. He was illiterate, it's considered a miracle. The first Surah of the Quran which supposedly came from the Arch Angel Gabriel was actually a command from God for people to seek Education to learn to read and write.
\>Doesn't confer with any theologians: already proven wrong at the start of my reply lol
\>Lives an unholy carnal lifestyle: he was married to Khadidja who was at least a decade older than him for 25 years. His other wives also consisted of a widow as the four wives thing was kind of a communist strategy to make sure that, since they were in a time of war, that no widow or orphan is taken advantage of or without a man.
\>Claims to talk to demons. Not demons, it's called Djinns. An intelligent species living in a parallel earth with access to our reality. They are more advanced to us according to Muslims. 4 dimensional beings. Also, didn't Solomon also speak to "demons"?
\>Gives several prophesies which dont' come true: that's false. I literally can't think of a single one of his prophesies which didn't get true. He literally predicted stuff like the fall of Constantinople and even predicted that it would be under a Red moon. He also predicted the Arab Spring which happened in 2011 lol.
\>Allah gives him information on other religions: Not really information, God supposedly tells him that Christianity, originally pure, was corrupted for example which is the only reason Islam existed.
\>Scientific theories which were false: like what?
\>His death was not by having his aorta severed, it was a metaphor this post twists out of context to serve it's purpose.
\>Have muslims ever questions this? Yes which is why there's dozens of schools of thoughts, some of which are similar to Christian Orthodoxy or Unitarism in shape and form.
The TLDR is actually to separate the Hadiths from the Quran because hadiths are not accurate and weren't written while the prophet was alive in the most part.
>Isn't there a hadith that describes muhamad having sex with other men, which, by his own definition (not mine, i must say), is an unholy, carnal lifestyle?
Cite it or provide a reference for it otherwise I can also say: isn't there a hadith that says inter20021 is making shit up
Hadith 2681 for the gay djin orgy.
Also, it's quite funny to say the quran is the direct word of god when it contains several statements of "fact" that are just actually factually wrong. Sugesting either, it was made up by a bunch of people from the time period, or, somehow, god got the implamentation details of creation wrong on relaying them.
As for the inacuracies, a brief list from google:
Scientific and Cosmological Claims
Geocentrism and Flat Earth References: The Quran is argued to describe the earth as a flat, spread-out carpet or bed (15:19, 78:6-7) and to suggest the sun and moon move in an orbit around it (36:38-40), rather than the earth orbiting the sun.
Setting of the Sun in a Spring: Surah 18:86 describes a traveler, Dhu'l-Qarnayn, reaching the place where the sun sets and finding it "setting in a muddy spring.".
Origin of Semen: Surah 86:6-7 states that human beings are created from a fluid "ejected from between the backbone and the ribs," which critics argue is anatomically incorrect, as semen is produced in the testes and accessory glands, not in the spine/chest area.
Embryological Development: Surah 23:14 states that in the womb, the fetus becomes a "clot of congealed blood" (alaqa) and that bones are formed before being "clothed... with flesh." Critics point out that blood clots do not develop into humans, and that bone and muscle tissue develop simultaneously, rather than sequentially.
Stars as Missiles: The Quran describes stars as "lamps" in the lowest heaven that also act as missiles to drive away devils (67:5, 37:6-8), which critics argue confuses stars with meteors.
Creation Timing Contradictions: The Quran states in several places that the heavens and earth were created in six days (e.g., 7:54). However, in 41:9-12, the breakdown is: two days for the earth, four days for food/provision, and two days for the heavens, which critics calculate as eight days.
Mountains as Pegs: The Quran describes mountains as "pegs" (16:15, 78:6-7) to prevent the earth from shaking, which geologists argue is not their function; they are caused by tectonic plates.
Historical and Genealogical Inconsistencies
Mary as Sister of Aaron: The Quran refers to Mary, the mother of Jesus, as the "sister of Aaron" (19:28). Critics argue this confuses her with Miriam, the sister of Moses and Aaron, who lived over 1,000 years earlier.
The Samaritan at Moses' Time: In 20:85, a "Samaritan" (As-Samiri) is present during the time of Moses and the Golden Calf. Critics argue the Samaritan people did not exist until centuries later.
Construction of the Kaaba: The Quran claims Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba (2:125-127), which critics state lacks archaeological or historical documentation
>The Quran is argued to describe the earth as a flat, spread-out carpet or bed (15:19, 78:6-7) and to suggest the sun and moon move in an orbit around it (36:38-40), rather than the earth orbiting the sun.
"Have We not smoothed out the earth ˹like a bed˺,
in the ayath there is word "ardzh" which means surface, and refers to surface of earth is made like this smooth for us to live on it like that. and earth was like mountains and holes at the beginning and shaped smoother over and over years ago cause gravitaion. so iits not wrong is it?
in islam every prophet and book came us as miracles like, jesus had a healing miracle at the time that medical was most advanced at that time. and quran came at arabia at that time where the literature was most advanced at that time (with a man who doesnt even illetarate). so there was so much metaphor on quran due to its literary form. and you guys just bringing thats to conversation like you found something new centuries later.
and there was some ayaths that refers the earth as rolling and even as ostrich egg that fits to earths geoit shape. you can research them.
>Setting of the Sun in a Spring: Surah 18:86 describes a traveler, Dhu'l-Qarnayn, reaching the place where the sun sets and finding it "setting in a muddy spring.".
yep. thats what i was telling about at the beginning. fo you really think that people would think everyday sun would drown and get created again in the morning? like thats not even a real arguement you guys just writing down to make it long. if a writer says when he was descripting the rain scene "and the rain drops coming down as bullets that pierce my mere flesh and reaching my thoughts" do you really will think as its real meaning?
>Origin of Semen: Surah 86:6-7 states that human beings are created from a fluid "ejected from between the backbone and the ribs," which critics argue is anatomically incorrect, as semen is produced in the testes and accessory glands, not in the spine/chest area
thats not the word that used semen in quran. in ayath it says "nutfah" that means something like mixed liquid or generally liquid. it says "meni" when it want to say semen. it clearly referring to first stage of pregnancy and its perfectly fits the place that referred. after that it says about how protective that place of human bones is and describe more about the stages of pregnancy with full correct. and not like that you said bones develops before flesh but exact opposite of it. you could at least read the referred ayaths man.
>Stars as Missiles: The Quran describes stars as "lamps" in the lowest heaven that also act as missiles to drive away devils (67:5, 37:6-8), which critics argue confuses stars with meteors.
in ayath it says "lowest heaven/low heaven" and its again perfectly matches with the meteors. and there is other word for quran for stars as "buruc".
>Mountains as Pegs: The Quran describes mountains as "pegs" (16:15, 78:6-7) to prevent the earth from shaking, which geologists argue is not their function; they are caused by tectonic plates.
im not gonna explain it to you you can just look at the sources i will share
Watts, A. B. (2011). Isostasy. In Encyclopedia of solid earth geophysics (pp. 647-662). Springer, Dordrecht.
Vening Meinesz, F. A. (1931), Une nouvelle methode pour la reduction isostatique regionale de l’intensite de la pesanteur, Bull. Geodesique, 29, 33-51.
Eakin, C. M., & Lithgow‐Bertelloni, C. (2018). An Overview of Dynamic Topography: The Influence of Mantle Circulation on Surface Topography and Landscape. Mountains, Climate and Biodiversity, 37.
Ok,
1. You don't address the geocentrisim, which is wrong, and in the quran
2. As far as i can remember, my bed isn't a sphear, and the earth isn't smooth. In fact, it gets less smooth over time because of tectonics.
3. Babies still dont start as a blod clot
4. Babies aren't developed between the backbone and the ribs. In fact, no part of the reproductive system is there, so there is no interpretation in which that is correct
5. Distinction between meteors and astaroids still missing then?
6. Yeeeeah, no, mountains dont stop earthquakes. They are caused by them, and they are in no way "pegs".
So yeah, still objectively false statements in a book that claims to be objectively true. Even if you can "interpret" things differently for most of it (which ngl is a bit shitty of allah, if they exist to make a book full of suposed truths and make it unclear) the geocentrisim is an objectivley untrue smokingngun.
It clearly states the sun and moon move in the sky, that is, relative to the earth, surely an all knowning being if they meant to describe the movements of the sun and moon, would you know, not deliberately say it in such a way. So, realisticly, either it's badly written (which contradicts itself) or its wrong (which contradicts itself), which is it?
Because i think its quite funny, you also forgot about the fact that it contradicts itself saying the earth was made in 6 days but when you add up the creation of the earth, 2 days, mountians and such, 4 days and heavens 2 days, that in fact comes to 8, just going to bring that up here, is god here saying 2+4+2 = 6 or that 6 = 8 or something else?
He didn’t get back to you so allow me to pretend to be him…
“No, none of that is correct because internal bias, mental gymnastics, and obtuse rhetoric”
what about now
[https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/1qvba44/comment/o3kkkq3/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/1qvba44/comment/o3kkkq3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
For Christianity specifically he claims that God the Father, Jesus, and Mary are what constitute the trinity and that has never been even close to being true. The most Mary obsessed catholic has never had even the shadow of that thought cross their mind.
He also recounts at least one maybe more stories about Jesus that have their origin I believe 300-400 years after the death of Jesus from heretical Christian sects.
The problem with these two things being is that if Muhammad got his information directly from God then why is the information wrong?
There were possibly Christian heresies that worshiped Mary in the region at the time
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyridianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyridianism)
I find the biggest problem with calling Muhammad wrong is that Christianity itself has a spectrum of heresies that are closer to Islam than modern Pauline Christianity; he was a Judaiser no different to James.
Likewise the "information directly from god" in the bible has also been rejected by other Christian sects e.g. the Ebionites rejected Mark etc; even outside of theology Mark has Jesus saying some really nonsensical things like Mark 7 which is ignorant of basic hygiene, even when taking apologetics into account there's a better time for Jesus to make a point than when his disciples are eating with dirty hands and the point is far too broad to be correct.
Idk if the time difference matters since the "holy spirit" waves away most of the same issues with Christian doctrine evolving.
The main reason we even have such contention is that most of the world currently follows some flavour of Christianity with Islam being the eastern flavour, if both religions were smaller this would just be a sectarian dispute.
\>There were possibly Christian heresies that worshiped Mary in the region at the time
Yes I'm aware that is probably where Muhammed actually got that information from but that's not what is says in the Quran or how the Quran is pro-ported to work now is it?
\> "information directly from god" in the bible
That's only a problem for protestants that think that the Bible is the literal word of God. The Quran being the verbatim word of God is a required belief for all Muslims everywhere. Even if that were the case for all Christians the washing in Mark 7 is a ceremonial washing and Jesus' response is talking about spiritual defilement. That is incredibly obvious and it makes me wonder if you got that tidbit from a reddit thread instead of actually reading the literature.
Wdym? the Quran is quite focused on local matters and addresses specific local heresies and events, no religious text is detached from its historical context.
>
the washing in Mark 7 is a ceremonial washing and Jesus' response is talking about spiritual defilement.
I take issue with this because either Jesus doesn't choose his words wisely or picks the worst moments because the disciples are eating with dirty hands; neither reflects well on him.
I've read the text, i've read a lot of theology in general because there really isn't much outside of religion besides pitch black nihilism. Unfortunately these little things add up over time and with the slightest bit of cynicism it becomes rather hard to still believe.
Satan (Iblis) was originally a djinn. Sounds demonic.
> Scientific theories which were false
Quran 54:1-2. The Prophet split the moon in two and reassembled it.
Sahih al-Bakari 3636 cites companions who witnessed this.
Do you believe the moon was split in two and reassembled as it says in the Quran?
The Hadith =/= the Qur'an. The Hadith are historical records, not divine revelation. Second of all, the Qur'an describes an event that has not yet occured, aka The Hour, or what Christians would call "The last days"
It was during the Meccan period during 614-617 CE.
The claims of it being a future event during The Hour are rebutted due to the second part of the verse which mentions the denying and mocking of the act they saw; there will be no deniers and mockers of the power during The Hour, therefore this can only refer to a time prior to The Hour when deniers and mockers were abundant.
Not in the Quran. The Quran is not the word of Muhammad. It was in a hadith when one of the followers asked for signs about the end times and when to know you're close to it
As a Christian, a few of your points stand out to me.
>Lives an unholy carnal lifestyle: you dispute this, but didn’t Muhammad marry a 9-year-old girl? How is that not unholy and carnal? Please explain why Muhammad having sex with a literal child is a good and holy thing to do. I’ll tell you one thing, none of the Christian leaders in the Bible did that.
>Claims to talk to demons: you mention that Solomon talked to demons, but what you fail to mention is that that wasn’t a good thing. There are plenty of examples of people in the Bible doing things that God does not approve of, like talking to demons. The difference is that, for Muslims, Muhammad is presented as an unquestionable hero, not as a flawed man who was punished by God for his disobedience (as a reminder, God punished Solomon for his disobedience by allowing his kingdom (Israel) to split and eventually collapse after his death).
The only Muslim countries where Christians are mistreated are in countries that have been destroyed by Israel or America(on behalf of Israel) and had a CIA/Mossad puppet government installed.
But that shit is coming to a close.
The turrrrrurrrists
You seriously need to update your hasbara talking points,
You’re stuck in 2002 and nobody is buying it. Outside of bribed and blackmailed western government officials 70 year olds you are completely out of support.
It’s over, it’s just matter of time.
Oops, the latest Gallup polls show more Americans sympathize with Palestinians than israelis. And if you filter out people over the age of 55 the gap in support is massively in favor of Palestinians.
Cry some more I guess.
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There's a part of the Quran where Mohammed was in the desert with his servant and he came across tall dark skinned men and they 'rode him all night long' while his servant watched.
Made it all up you say? Lmao
"Abdullah related: The Messenger of Allah (SAW) sent for me, so we set out until I reached such-and- such a place, and He traced a line for me and told me: Stay between the two edges of this - don't go outside of it; if you go outside of it, it's over for you. Abdullah said: And so I stayed there. Then the Messenger of Allah (SAW) went off a stone's throw away or a little farther. Then he [the narrator mentioned a group of male members [haneen, i.e. men] who looked like Zutt people, as 'Affan said Allah willing, with no clothes on (but I did not see their genitals), tall and scrawny. And they came and started to ride [yarkaboun] the Messenger of Allah (SAW), and the Prophet of Allah (SAW) began to recite to them. And they started to move closer and lean around me, and get in my way, and I become intensely terrified of them, so I sat down. And when the morning light broke, they began to go away. Then the Messenger of Allah (SAW) came back exhausted and in pain, or practically in pain, from how they had ridden him; He said: Indeed I am exhausted. Then the Messenger of Allah (SAW) put his head in my lap. And the scrawny ones came with tall white garments on, but the Messenger of Allah (SAW) had fallen asleep. And I became more intensely terrified of them than I was the first time. ..."
(Sound chain of narration;
Musnad Ahmad, Section: Narrations from Abdullah ibn Mas'ud (may Allah Most High be pleased with him)
I've read the Koran back to back twice and I've never seen this before. The earliest this hoax came to be was a after covid, if I google it I can't find any source dating from before 2020. This is a forgery just like the protocols of elders of Zion.
Child marriage is legal in half of the US. Crazy to put our modern morale on someone 1600 years ago. I'm sure you can find a lot of fucked up shit in every religion.
It's always absolutely hilarious when this comparison gets made. There's a significant difference between marrying a 16 year old and a 6 year old lmao. Like yes, both are bad, but one at least is pretty widely condemned even if legal, while calling Muhammad a pedo is fighting words for a substantial part of muslims.
Out of like 2,000,000 per year. But yes, marrying to a 16 old is just as equal as marrying to a 9 year old and Americans support it in just the same way as Muslims support Muhammad.
Why do Muslims pretend other people being pedos makes it ok Muhammad (police be upon him) to marry a 6 year old and molest her until he started raping her at 9? Wouldn’t God’s perfect man for all times have better morals?
"Other people" do you mean God? Mary was 12 lol why do you guys feel so uncomfortable when this fact is presented?
As for Muslims, that hadith was written by an Iraqi guy 300 years after the prophet passed
Besides, Recent Muslim/Western led [revisiting](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth) over "texts" found she could've actually been 19-35. There are other islamic researches done to prove she was older than 9 years old. For example, the author of the reported hadith that claims Aisha was betrothed at 6 and married at 9 was an Iraqi guy born 200 years after the death of the prophet.
But Muslims also believe in the virgin birth, right? It just makes Allah a rapist like Muhammad.
Essentially every Islamic scholar agrees on Aisha being 6 at marriage and 9 when Mo started raping her, and I’m guessing you agree considering that’s what you were defending.
Most likely between 16-18, the normal age that a woman got married at the time. Aisha was 6 years old marrying a 50+ year old man, and they "consummated" when she was 9.
Mary was also still a virgin.
>Most likely between 16-18, the normal age that a woman got married at the time. Aisha was 6 years old marrying a 50+ year old man, and they "consummated" when she was 9.
You wish huh? she was 12. 16 at best. Her husband was what? 90? The church was approving marriage even at 7 years old in the 12th century which 1200 years after Mary so... Also, if that's not low enough for you, Rebecca was 3 lol.
Double standards man
You're pulling random numbers out of your ass and throwing them at the wall in the hopes that nobody knows it's nonsense.
12 was the absolute minimum age a woman could be betrothed (not married until at least a year after) in ancient Judea. There were legal stipulations surrounding marrying that young as well, and typically only done in the cases of arranged marriages with wealthy families. Joseph was an ordinary laborer. Most girls married in the late teens.
No, Joseph was not 90. That comes from a single apologetical text from a century and a half after Christ that was never accepted as authoritative. (Even in that source, Joseph is chosen to be Mary's husband because he is old and by his own agreement will not have relations with her.) Evidence from Luke and Church fathers suggests he was in his 20s, which again was a standard age at the time to marry.
The only cases I've ever heard of marriages that young in the middle ages were diplomatic marriages that were treated as a formality, permitted on the pretense that it wasn't a normal consummated marriage. Women tended to get married around 16-20 then too.
And Rebecca was not 3, lmfao. That's based on Talmudic miscalculations that everyone recognizes as ridiculous. In the Bible she's described as watering ten camels and carrying jugs filled with water, how the hell would a 3 year old do that?
So you don't accept Joseph being 90 because it was written almost 150 years after Christs death, but accept the bible as it is, even though most was written and rewritten 300 years after Christs death?
Lol
The Gospels were written before 70 AD. I don't believe the modern revisionism on the subject. It was also not "written and rewritten" in any manner that substantially changed the theological substance. Fragmentary evidence from the second century supports the accuracy of modern translations.
Multiple authors spanning centuries [Source](https://www.bartehrman.com/contradictions-in-the-bible/#:~:text=Yet%2C%20both%20views%20often%20overlook,inevitably%20led%20to%20biblical%20contradictions)
And you trust Paul? Who wasn't one of the 12 Apostles, born after Jesus died. Who spent his life persecuting early christians who might've been taught of the scripture by Jesus himself?
The one who wrote 14 of the 27 books? That Paul?
It's always the case with wannabe christians preaching water but drinking wine
Easy to spot, because they talk propaganda thats been stuffed down their throats without fact checking.
They tend to live in echo chambers
Ehrman is a modern revisionist. The arguments against the early dating of the Gospels all cite the same handful of skeptics who reject things like Jesus being able to predict the destruction of the Temple (despite that being a common theme in apocalyptic literature in late Temple Judaism, since it had happened before).
And yes, I trust Paul, the man who converted upon seeing a vision of Jesus and spent decades traveling around the Mediterranean preaching, was given approval by the Apostles including Peter, endured imprisonment and persecution himself, and ultimately was martyred.
Mary was 12-16. Given the biblical account and the Jewish cultural practices in Mary's day, the most plausible age Mary would have been when she had Jesus was most likely 12-16 years old. It was normal at the time but it hurts the narrative you guys try to spin. Doesn't it?
[A\]s the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Judaea respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.](https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)
Arranged marriages were permitted at times and with permission of the Church and the parents involved, especially in families of nobility were concerned. The minimum age for a dissoluble bethothal was 7 years of age.
Thomas Aquinas (12th century) also said that the church was fine with betrothal happening at age 7.
Besides, Recent Muslim/Western led [revisiting](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth) over "texts" found she could've actually been 19-35. There are other islamic researches done to prove she was older than 9 years old. For example, the author of the reported hadith that claims Aisha was betrothed at 6 and married at 9 was an Iraqi guy born 200 years after the death of the prophet.
Again, the Protoevangelium has never been considered authoritative and is apologetic in nature, not descriptive. It is contradicted by authoritative material (Gospel of Luke) and the testimony of the Church fathers such as Jerome. This is ackkowledged in the NewAdvent source you provided.
The other relevant part that you seem to be missing is that Mary was still a virgin when Jesus was conceived, not through sex but by an act of the Holy Spirit. She was not carnally impregnated.
In the case of Aquinas, Catholic betrothal was very different from ancient Jewish betrothal. Basically a 7 year old being betrothed would mean that there was an arranged marriage that would take place sometime after she had undergone puberty, between 12-14 per legal/canonical requirements. Consummation would be forbidden until that point. This sort of thing was practically exclusively used in arranged diplomatic marriages, not for ordinary marriages.
And how convenient, any hadiths that were considered authoritative but violate modernist revisionism can just be disregarded or ignored! Even the Guardian source you provided argues first why it's acceptable rather than why it's potentially inaccurate. The fact that it wasn't really questioned until the interference of colonial powers in local sharia law says a lot here.
Looks like you guys are throwing accusations and doing the good old downvoting and running away.
Mary was 12-16. Given the biblical account and the Jewish cultural practices in Mary's day, the most plausible age Mary would have been when she had Jesus was most likely 12-16 years old. It was normal at the time but it hurts the narrative you guys try to spin. Doesn't it?
[A\]s the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Judaea respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.](https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)
Arranged marriages were permitted at times and with permission of the Church and the parents involved, especially in families of nobility were concerned. The minimum age for a dissoluble bethothal was 7 years of age.
Thomas Aquinas (12th century) also said that the church was fine with betrothal happening at age 7.
Besides, Recent Muslim/Western led [revisiting](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth) over "texts" found she could've actually been 19-35. There are other islamic researches done to prove she was older than 9 years old. For example, the author of the reported hadith that claims Aisha was betrothed at 6 and married at 9 was an Iraqi guy born 200 years after the death of the prophet.
Why is this the response you have to Muhammad being a raging ped
Yes kids were done over in antiquity.
Still doesnt change the fact of Muhammad being a degenerate diddler.
Mary was 12-16. Given the biblical account and the Jewish cultural practices in Mary's day, the most plausible age Mary would have been when she had Jesus was most likely 12-16 years old. It was normal at the time but it hurts the narrative you guys try to spin. Doesn't it?
[A\]s the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Judaea respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.](https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)
Arranged marriages were permitted at times and with permission of the Church and the parents involved, especially in families of nobility were concerned. The minimum age for a dissoluble bethothal was 7 years of age.
Thomas Aquinas (12th century) also said that the church was fine with betrothal happening at age 7.
Besides, Recent Muslim/Western led [revisiting](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth) over "texts" found she could've actually been 19-35. There are other islamic researches done to prove she was older than 9 years old. For example, the author of the reported hadith that claims Aisha was betrothed at 6 and married at 9 was an Iraqi guy born 200 years after the death of the prophet.
Sorry dude I know you're trying your hardest to move the goal post instead of talking about how Mary was 12 when she got married to a 90 year old man lol. I'm not helping am I?
You are the main goal post mover here, buddy.
The topic is about muhammad being a documented and proud monster of a pedophile.
Your only goal is to turn the conversation away from him. I personally say we should hang all the pedophiles and mention their names only with disrespect regardless of religious or political stances.
Be it muhammad, jesus, joseph, putin or trump. None deserve any respect or remorse. They all should burn in their own imaginations of what they consider hell to be.
Instead we are living in a world where people like you constantly defend degenerate rapists by throwing around endless lines of “whatabout xyz”.
Shame on you. I say, let pedophile defenders join their fate.
https://www.economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Global-Terrorism-Index-2025.pdf
Terrorism is almost entirely a Muslim thing. There’s not really any debate to be had.
And? Going back what, 80 years to prove your point actually just proves mine. I bet I don’t have to go back even 80 hours to find a Muslim terrorist attack.
You said it’s a Muslim thing, I said it was a Jewish thing.
And we all know it’s a political label nothing more. When America bombs and kills it’s ok, but when people resist it’s terrorism. Real Terrorists like ISIS and Al-Qaeda are extreme sects of Islam that are funded by the West and nefarious regimes to kill other Muslims.
Add nuance to your argument instead of being a sheep.
Ah so It’s not a Muslim thing if America also does it. This is what I mean when I say have nuance in the way you talk, not reduced down talking points that you heard on TikTok.
If you get killed by a terrorist attack in a country that isn’t a literal current warzone it’s almost certainly going to be from Islamists. Your “nuance” is bullshit.
In America I have a higher chance of being killed in high school instead of a terrorist attack. Are school shootings a Christian thing? According to your logic, yes they are.
Flawed logic is flawed logic, you make no sense and can barely string a logical sentence together to explain your point.
I had a similar interaction (but not a debate per say). Their justification was that Quran was written during wartime, so that's why it's so radical in some of it's beliefs. Idk if its true.
>The Quran is factually less violent than the Bible
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_Muhammad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_Jesus_Christ
The Quran still is less violent than the Holy Bible though. It's not about the personal life of Muhammad lmao
Also, there were many Prophets in the Bible who had military careers and did some really nasty stuff too like King David. So nice try moving the goal post I guess
If I was defending All Quiet On The Western Front you'd be calling the director and the studio a company of hate and lies lol. That's basically what this is and it's ridiculous that you admit to how stupid this is and yet feign ignorance to push hate which happens to be ironic
The fact you mentally defaulted AQOTWF as a movie rather than a book hurts me as a history buff
Not involved your internet slap fight, just wanted to let you know you hurt me. Have a nice day
You're completely retarded and make no logical point (because your parents are cousins). No one likes your fucking religion. Go back to your shithole if you like it so much. Christians have universally built greater civilisations. Your prophet was gay and got fucked in the ass by Big Black Zutts and the 'Archangel Gabriel'.
Khazars dont equal ashkenazi, do some research about genetic lineage of ashkenazi jews. Askenazi jews are descendants of jews who lived in Italy during the time of the Roman empire, likely part of the slave class after all the rebellions, and spread throughout Europe from there. Khazars were a horde of asiatic peoples, caught between the tides of the Islamic world and christendom who choose to be Jewish by their own volition.
Why do you think the Irish support Palestine, and the Ottomans sought to donate gold and food to the Hibernians in their famine? Now you're catching on.
Actually yes, i was working a rap show in the middle east last year and part of the set has a bunch of faces along the side of the stage and the government came and made us remove it because it could be seen as a portrait of Muhammad
Just googled it. He supposedly ate some poisoned goat, the gods texted him “aye spit that shit out” so he did but supposedly had lasting effects anyway. Died 3-4 years later possibly from the poisoning.
So not even a half truth, more like a quarter truth 😂
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4428
Sahih al-Bukhari 4428, one of several hadiths considered authentic in Sunni Islam has Muhammad describing his pain on his deathbed as feeling like his aorta was being severed due to the poison from Khaybar.
> The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O `Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."
Similar accounts appear in other collections like Sunan Abu Dawud.
Muhammad also said in other hadiths that eating 7 dates in the morning will protect from all poison. And black cumin seeds have cure for everything in it except death.
Wonder why he didn’t just pound some dates and black seeds right after he was poisoned to save himself. But oh well, I guess Allah works in mysterious way.
>Wonder why he didn’t just pound some dates and black seeds right after he was poisoned to save himself
Maybe he didn't have prime next day delivery and they arrived too late
These are not authentic hadiths. Sahih Muslim and Bukhari have many many contractions and falsehoods in them. Sunnis have to believe them all because if they don't, their whole belief system falls apart.
Its true. He slaughtered a jewish womans family, and that night the woman offered to cook him a meal and he accepted. She poisioned him, and one of his last words were "i feel like my aorta has been severed", which is exactly what he said Allah would do to false prophets
Regardless using that as proof that you're a profit iif God is so stupid. I can say I'm a profit of God and God only kills false profits by having their anus exlope so since my anus isn't exploding I must he a true profit. It's the circular logic that Islam relies on constantly and it's so embarrassing
In this thread, people using their belief system to judge another belief system and unsurprisingly determine that the other belief system *must* be wrong. Hmmm where have I heard people doing the same???
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The more you learn about the history and how many cultures and nations they destroyed and how the religion works in detail the more you realize just how batshit insane it is.
You wont be able to see any of them in public in a positive light ever again
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"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from \[any\] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction." - Surah An-Nisa, verse 82
As "Muslim" refers to anyone who submits to God, the first to submit to God is Adam. But if we're looking the first Muslim as in the first follower of the Message (Qur'an), it is Khadija, the Prophet's wife.
As a Christian, a few of your points stand out to me.
>Lives an unholy carnal lifestyle: you dispute this, but didn’t Muhammad marry a 9-year-old girl? How is that not unholy and carnal? Please explain why Muhammad having sex with a literal child is a good and holy thing to do. I’ll tell you one thing, none of the Christian leaders in the Bible did that.
>Claims to talk to demons: you mention that Solomon talked to demons, but what you fail to mention is that that wasn’t a good thing. There are plenty of examples of people in the Bible doing things that God does not approve of, like talking to demons. The difference is that, for Muslims, Muhammad is presented as an unquestionable hero, not as a flawed man who was punished by God for his disobedience (as a reminder, God punished Solomon for his disobedience by allowing his kingdom (Israel) to split and eventually collapse after his death).
haven't seen more hate than this all of this because y'all are ignorant
all mma say is Quran is a very difficult text very metaphorical
not everything is explained and deciphered
so taking everything literally may lead to misunderstanding the text
also we see the muslim flat earthers the same way you see ur flat earthers
No . Aisha was at least 25 in 624 CE
+++
First Aisha age is not mentioned in Quran
Second Aisha age is only in Hadith ( a collection of narrations written 300 years after the death of prophet Muhammad and Aisha ) .
3.its not Aisha who narrated this Hadith. But was a guy lived 120 years after her death in Iraq called Hicham Ibn Urwah
4. Hicham Ibn Urwah when he was in Iraq he was 92 years old and had hallucinations according to his friend the great Hadith scholar Malik
5. All early Islamic historian agreed Aisha the daughter of the first Caliph,was born at least 15 years before ( Biitha ) 610 so she will be 27 years old in 624
6. Before prophet Muhammad Aisha was already engaged to an Arab knight called Jubair Ibn Mutaim for 3 years .
7. In Boukhari the same book who said Aisha was 9 in 624 and was born In 615 ...
Said in 615-616 when Qamar chapter was revealed,Aisha was a jariya playing. So between 12-14
8. Aisha was not a random women . She was the daughter of Abu Bakr , the best companion of prophet Muhammad who became later the first caliph
9. Prophet Muhammad, his first marriage was Khadija not Aisha . Prophet Muhammad married Khadija when he was 25 while she was a 40 years old widow . They lived together for 25 years and had four daughters including Fatima the holy daughter of prophet Muhammad
10. Aisha is one of the strongest women in Islamic history, and considered to be the Greatest judge in Sunni Islam ...
This is some points used by the oxford PhD Joshua little
The Quran does not explicitly state Aisha's exact age at marriage, but Hadith narrations, particularly from Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, report she was six when married and nine when the marriage was consummated, while other scholarly interpretations, considering historical context like her sister Asma's age, suggest she might have been older, around 15-18 years old at consummation. So you need to stop lying!
Okay I see your confusion, first i was right it isn't stated is quran like U said, also the answer you are looking for is in the first reply I posted kindly read it, if U can
I see your confusion, let me educate you on this as you seem to have mixed hadiths and quran. Quran is the believed to be word of god, but it has nothing to do with hadiths.
Hadiths are like gospels written by people who knew a guy who knew a guy who claim they heard/saw the prophet do something. As you can see the flaw, hadiths have been made up and incorrect most of the time, so they are verified at first, and the hadith in question rn has the following flaws in it. Hope you understand now
https://sunnah.com/nasai:3255 | https://sunnah.com/nasai:3256 | https://sunnah.com/nasai:3378 | https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1877 | https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5133 | https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134 | https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5158 | if you deny this you are denying Allah and the profit Muhammad!
Yes you keep quoting hadiths, as I explained above aren't related to God, and these aren't even verified ones, there are a lot of hadiths and more than 90% have been discredited
Hopefully you have learnt something new, thank you for your time
are we going to pretend any religion gets questioned?
it survived the same reason as any other, because it was convenient to follow, both for the plebs and the elites.
the parts that were not covenient got bastardized, like one night marriages for whoring, again, same as christianism which changed their god from one of justice and retribution to (( love )).
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\> claims that if he is a false prophet then he will be killed by having his aorta severed
\> canonically dies by having his aorta severed
So he did prophesize one thing?
This gets pretty complicated in the nature of why and how religions form tbh. The individual actions of Muhammad almost have nothing to do with it. It could have honestly been anyone. But there is kind of a pattern of the goofiest and most obviously corrupt people somehow becoming the central figure of the religion.
Like the only religion where that isn't true. Is the one that basically had to make up a perfect and completely incorruptable person to use as a symbol.
Who's been chopping off heads, kidnapping and murdering children, bombing innocents, putting down women, throwing folk of rooves, stoning, shooting innocents whilst swearing death and carrying it out to non believers all across the globe for the last..I dunno..ever ?
Abd yes, all abrahamic religions are full of violence, and we have idiot apologists arguing that 'theirs is the best'. 'Civilisation' - my arse.
No, it comes from reading literally anything about Sharia law or the way they conduct themselves in any city where they form ethnic enclaves. "American Islamophobia psyops" didn't cause the Pakistani grooming gangs in the UK.
I just feel like you have to be drinking right wing media Kool-Aid if you actually think what you’re describing as a ‘grooming gang’ is a trait of Islam as if Christian’s aren’t infamous for something very similar.
Isn’t that pretty much the essence of what propaganda is?
It piggy backed on the success of Judaism and Catholicism. With enforcement on its members, taxes on it's non members and tribal crusades to rape and pillage the world like previous eastern Khan's.
Most of the comments agree with the degenerate from 4chan (or Israeli asset - take your pick) without once wondering WHY it is that Israel and the west want you to hate Islam so bad
You all just sound like a bunch of bigots doing the governments work for them FOR FREE……..
There probably was a radical preacher fitting the description of Jesus Christ in the middle east 2000 years ago, I mean out of thousands. There absolutely was not a man walking on water and healing blind people.
Basically, the brainwashing is too strong to break free from, Christianity brainwashes followers as well, sure, but with enough education and exposure to higher society people can overcome it and become atheists, no such thing for Islam, tons of atheists who were formerly Christian and grew out of it, no such thing for Islam
OP better be careful. About the only thing all Muslims agree on is that you aren't supposed to try and draw an accurate picture of their most holy prophet.
I'm always curious if people read through all the gospels when they say stuff like Jesus was a cool dude.
Jesus told parables about beating\[Luke 12:47\] and torturing slaves\[Matt 18:34\], he said you wouldn't thank a slave for only doing what's asked of them\[Luke 17:9\], he healed the centurions slave after being told the slave was obedient\[Luke 7\]. In the parable of the ten minas or talents, the slave which makes the least return on investment is punished\[Matthew 25:14–30, Luke 19:11–27\].
Jesus said that Jews who don't believe in him are a generation of vipers\[Matthew 3:7 , Matthew 12:34\], he said they're the sons of Satan who do his bidding\[john 8:44\].
Jesus says you need to hate your family and your own life to be his follower\[Luke 14:26\].
Jesus tells a parable about himself where at the end he says to bring his enemies before him and kill them\[Luke 19:27\].
Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace but a sword\[Matthew 10:34-36\].
Jesus talked about how it will be worse than Sodom and Gomorrah to be in the cities that don't convert on judgement day\[Matthew 10:15\].
Jesus says to that not a jot nor a tittle should be removed from the old testament law until heaven and earth pass away and all things are accomplished\[Matthew 5:18\]. As in, Jesus commanded his followers to obey the old testament commandments, which are heinous. And he says to follow the words of the Pharisees\[Matt 23:3\]. (As in he agreed with the Pharisees in word, but the Pharisees didn't practice what they preach).
Jesus commanded a leper to sacrifice birds in the temple\[Mark 1:44\].
When asked if a guy could bury his father before following him, Jesus said "let the dead bury the dead"\[matt 8:21-22\].
Jesus called Canaanites dogs, (Canaanites had a genealogical curse to be slaves of slaves)\[Matthew 15:21-28,Mark 7:24-30\].
Jesus said he spoke in parables to confuse people, because otherwise people would understand his meaning, and they would be saved\[Marky 4:12\].
Jesus says don't wash your hands before you eat\[Matt 15\].
If you include the apocrypha. Jesus says women need to become men to get into heaven\[Thomas 114\], Jesus kills childhood friends\[Infancy Gospel 2:3\].
There's the blood curse where Jews supposedly take responsibility for the death of Jesus\[Matthew 27:25\]
There's the cleansing of the temple where Jesus violently attacks innocent sellers and currency exchangers who were providing a necessary service for the temple so that Jews could make their required sacrifices and pay their taxes in the correct currency. Travelers coming to the temple needed those services.\[Mark 11:15-18,Luke 19:45-47,John 2:14-16\]
When Jesus is asked about why he lets himself be annointed with a large quantity of oil, which could be sold for lots of money (approximately a years wages, so roughly maybe 50k in today's money) to help the poor, he says you'll always have the poor, but you'll not always have me.\[Matthew 26:11 and John 12:8\]
Lastly, if you truly believe Jesus is God, then Jesus flooded the world to kill it's inhabitants, he commanded child sacrifice, he commanded genocide, he used bleeding as a virginity test for women, he directly commanded chattel slavery, etc... If you believe in the book of revelations, then Jesus rides around on a horse with a sword sticking out of his mouth killing people. And there will be floods of blood from the winepress, where the blood is as high as a horses girdle for \~184 miles.
If I said or did half of those things, I wouldn't expect people to call me cool. And he did and said a lot of uncool shit. If we just clip out the nice things Jesus said, we get a nice highlight reel, but his highlight reel of awful things he said is pretty long as well. For me it's hard to look at a flawed character like Jesus and boil him down to a cool dude.
Were you aware of this kinda stuff? Have you read through the bible or the gospels? I'm not trying to pry, just curious about it.
> Jesus talked about how it will be worse than Sodom and Gomorrah to be in the cities that don't convert on judgement day[Matthew 10:15].
How is this a bad thing or contradictory?
I mean you'd have more people questioning this shit, if they'd be allowed to read or translate the quaran in their own language before being forced to convert.
I'm telling you it's a religion that only succeeded because it's a pervert's fantasy. 7 virgins with the skin so pale you could see their spinal cord and they regenerate their hymen???
Sorry for the ai slop but I dumped the aorta part in ChatGPT just to see if it was true. This is what it spit out.
Good question. This comes up a lot in interfaith and historical discussions, so let’s separate what the sources actually say from later interpretations.
⸻
Did Muhammad say a false prophet would have his aorta severed?
The wording comes from the Qur’an, not from Muhammad speaking about himself.
In Qur’an 69:44–46, God says (paraphrased):
If he (Muhammad) had fabricated anything against Us, We would have seized him by the right hand, then cut off his al-watin, and none of you could have stopped it.
• al-watin is usually translated as aorta or life artery.
• This is a conditional, hypothetical statement emphasizing divine protection of Muhammad’s message—not a prediction about how he would die.
• Muhammad is not saying “this will happen to me,” but rather God asserting that false revelation would not be allowed to succeed.
So:
✅ Yes, the Qur’an mentions the severing of the watin if he were fabricating revelation
❌ No, Muhammad did not claim “if I’m false, I will die this way”
⸻
How did Muhammad actually die?
Broad historical consensus (Islamic sources)
• Muhammad died in 632 CE in Medina
• He was about 62–63 years old
• He died after a short illness lasting several days
• He passed away in the home of his wife Aisha
• There is no report of sudden trauma, hemorrhage, or physical severing of an artery
⸻
What about the poison story?
This is where interpretations diverge.
The incident
• In 628 CE, a Jewish woman in Khaybar poisoned cooked lamb
• Muhammad took one bite, then stopped when warned
• He did not die at that time
• One companion did die from the poison
Later hadith near his death
Some hadith (e.g., in Sahih al-Bukhari) report Muhammad saying shortly before his death:
“I still feel the pain from the food I ate at Khaybar, and now I feel as if my watin is being cut.”
How scholars understand this
Islamic interpretation (majority view):
• The statement is metaphorical, describing intense pain
• His death is considered natural, though some say the poison contributed
• Many Muslims view this as martyrdom, not punishment
Critical or polemical interpretation:
• Some argue the mention of watin links his death to Qur’an 69
• This view is not accepted by mainstream Islamic scholarship
Importantly:
• There is no medical or historical evidence of literal aortic rupture
• The timeline (poison years earlier) does not match acute arterial death
⸻
Bottom line
• 📖 Qur’an 69 uses “cutting the aorta” as a hypothetical divine warning, not a prediction
• 🗣 Muhammad did not claim he would die that way if false
• 🕊 He died after illness, years after the poisoning incident
• 🩺 There is no historical evidence of literal aortic severing
• 🧠 The connection between the verse and his death is interpretive, not textual or medical fact
I simply mentioned the fact that homosexuals are at a high risk of summary execution, in Muslim nations, while Islam’s own prophet was gang banged in a desert, as mentioned in literally their own incorruptible holy book.
>How did this actual orc religion ever become even remotely successful?
Soon as you start seeing religion as a compliance device to assert political influence, the plot holes start not to matter.
People also believe this nonsense cause there are people that are absolutely terrified of the feeling of an upper class or being/person being there to protect us.
Its part of why they believe in so heavily in the government even though they can see with their own eyes how they lie to us. Even Bitcoin scares them due to decentralization. Everything needs control in their minds or else its like the spiral of mayhem in their minds.
I always tell them, if we believe in those books, we need to believe the original writings, that means you gotta support pedo,racism,slaves,etc.. after all its the word of God and you can't modify it. If your god/prophet is all knowing then we can't update it with the times. If he says women are lesser, they are lesser, if you can't get a tattoo or eat meat then you can't do it.
But most of these people don't follow most of this bullshit but take it seriously enough to pressure us to respect this nonsense. It's all a means to control people. It's why sites like Reddit, governments usually always will protect it.. oh ya do your silly little sayings to get back at the "bad" man instead of actually doing something about it.
Its exactly what the ruling class wants, you to be passive and religion is perfect for that.
I think the best takeaway is that the books might have some truths in them about living the good life, but it's interspersed with fiction.
For example, we can look at something like *Lord of the Rings* and say that good people coming together despite their differences can do amazing things, but that doesn't mean Sauron and Gandalf and hobbits are real.
Slight correction - not sure about other religions but Catholics view the Bible as being divinely inspired but written by mortal hands and subject to mistakes in expression, misinterpretation and mistranslation. I think they view the only way for God to work directly through the governing body of humans is through the Pope on the chair of St Peter
The dude basically paid for his followers. The whole history of Muhammad is a conqueror who used Christianity as a tool to enslave the citizens of his nations.
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