Is it cooked? Aeroflot A321
Posted by CockpitExplorer@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 89 comments
Since the airspace over Europe closed for Russian Airlines in 2022, this Aeroflot A321 (VP-BOE) is sitting on the tarmac in Geneva (LSGG).
It doesn‘t seem to have any covers installed nor is there any maintenance performed.
Will it ever fly again or is it cooked?
kotjagys@reddit
If no maintenance has been done in four years, even though you do an extensive engineering assessment, some parts won't be allowed to be used without being sent to shop, specially the engines. Safran nor any other design office that have to approve the required tasks to be performed due to the non compliance, will allow it with just an onwing inspection. Return to service is not imposible, but would be extremely costly. It might even be difficult to find a design office that can approve the return to service. Even Airbus might reject to send approved instructions.
SeaHawkGaming@reddit
The catering is still in there. Or at least it was before the mice got to it.
The plane has been parked there since 2022 I think, there’s so much missed maintenance that it’ll probably be cheaper to write it off than to find everything that broke in the meantime and fix it
DiligentCredit9222@reddit
Not necessarily. Planes are sometimes parked years before they are used again l. The time is not the problem. However the cold and moist climate where it's parked IS a problem.
If they would be parked at Mojave or Spinal airport in the warm, dry desert with the engines and everything covered it could sit there for years without becoming unusable.
SeaHawkGaming@reddit
There’s also not a single cover on the entire plane, the outflow valves are open and the wheels are starting to rot, I think it’s safe to say this one is beyond economic recovery
Flying-Toto@reddit
What a shame for that plane.
Without any preservation procedure engage, it will be cooked
IndependenceStock417@reddit
A pan seared A321 does sound kinda good right about now
Zorg_Employee@reddit
Mechanic here. It's hard to tell just by the photos. How cooked it is depends on how old it is. A younger airframe might be worth throwing some serviceable engines/apu which are usually the first to go.
I'd say at this point there's a 50% chance it could be brought back into service. I'd hate to be tasked with that though.
Muunwalker09@reddit
May I ask why you would hate that task?
Zorg_Employee@reddit
I'm not a heavy maintenance guy. More than a few days of working the same plane, same task, I get bored. I like engines, flight controls, and landing gear.
Bringing an improperly stored aircraft back online would be corrosion repair, wire bundles eaten by vermin, and moldy carpet/seats/walls.
Muunwalker09@reddit
Mate thank you for explaining, I do aviation IT and don’t have real insight, that’s why I really appreciate this kind of feedback.
AntiPinguin@reddit
Rumors are the catering is still on board. That isn’t an airplane anymore, it’s a zombie apocalypse waiting to happen…
I am based in GVA and the story I heard from multiple people is that they were taxiing out on their way to the runway when the airspace closure for Russian aircraft in Europe came into affect. So they parked there, deboarded and left the plane as it is.
It for sure isn’t airworthy. But the bigger problem is that whoever takes possession of it to fly it out will have to pay years in accrued parking fees in addition to all the maintenance required…
Fitzefitzefatze@reddit
There also was a Aeroflot A320 parked in munich for several years. It was towed from time to time to make room for other airplanes, but also no covers or anything. At some point after more than 2 years it was flown out (after the leasing company which owned the aircraft payed almost half a million Euros in parking fees). So yes, with adequate maintenance done, they can fly again. Rumors are that the cabin smelled like hell, because the aircraft was catered when they abandoned it.
https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a320-aeroflot-leaves-munich-airport/
MaintenanceAnnual263@reddit
so the food was cooked and not eaten?
OptiGuy4u@reddit
No, it was raw but the people still ate it. They just abandoned the people inside too. 🙄
KonixSpeedking@reddit
“Folks looks like our slot is gone, we’re just going to sit here on the tarmac for a while so we can sort this out. So sit tight, and we’ll have you underway as soon as possible”
Medox2@reddit
Some are still clapping.
MrPBH@reddit
Hands?
Or do you mean booty cheeks?
CrappyTan69@reddit
Why don't the leasing company collect it? I'd assume the airline would be in breach and thus allow them will to collect?
tarmacjd@reddit
It’s a Russian leasing company that is also sanctioned
M-Div@reddit
Sooo… free to good home?
rapzeh@reddit
I don't think the airport would cry if you flew it off their property
Flaxinator@reddit
They would if you didn't pay the outstanding parking fees. While the aircraft it there they can use it as leverage
obi2kanobi@reddit
"Hey, pay the parking fees and it's yours"
MAVACAM@reddit
No it's not, the A320 that left MUC in the OP is owned by a Chinese leasing company.
MAVACAM@reddit
I imagine they wanted to see if there were any resolutions to the airspace bans/sanctions before they made the final decision to seize it back. A year on, they probably realised there was no end in sight and began proceedings to take it back.
Prestigious-Monk-191@reddit
One mayor difference is that the A320 that was parked in Munich (as well as the A320 that was parked in Amsterdam) is owned by a Chinese leasing company. The A321 parked in Geneva, however, is owned by GTLK (State Transport Leasing Company). That company is owned by Russia and is on the EU sanctions list.
iambackend@reddit
I wonder if GTLK agreed to give up the plane just to not let it rot away, would EU take it, or sanctions would prevent it too?
Excellent-Gur-8547@reddit
Neither side would or could do that. The government wants their parking fees, which Russia won't pay Russia wants compensation for the aircraft, which no one in the EU can pay. Really they'd need a Chinese leasing company to become the middle man and buy the plane from Aeroflot, then pay the parking fees, then bring it into flyable condition and even then that might be so obvious that the EU still wouldn't go for it.
Puddleduck97@reddit
Why would they do that? Russian aircraft wastefully languishing in European/Western airports makes the West look bad (as far as Russians are concerned).
Nice_Classroom_6459@reddit
Looks great to everyone else, though.
Puddleduck97@reddit
Well yes, that's the point of sanctions. If they don't have an impact they aren't working.
Dreamerlax@reddit
That airframe (former VP-BET) is now flying for Chinese airline GX Airlines as B-32MK.
amcl1986@reddit
Along with its sister aircraft MSN 7215 (formerly operated as VP-BAC).
Personally managed both of these aircraft last year and helped deliver them to the new operator GX Airlines over in Hainan.
A lot of people asking on here whether it is possible to get these old airframes flying again without protections. Short answer is yes, as was the case with the two of these, but it takes a lot of work and a lot of assistance from the OEMs like Airbus and CFM / P&W.
danit0ba94@reddit
"because the aircraft was catered when they abandoned it"
eeeEEUUGH🤢
CockpitExplorer@reddit (OP)
Interestingly, there is the rumor that the plane in GVA is also still fully catered…
slickd0g@reddit
Can someone explain why would it be cooked? I mean cars stay outside for hears and run fine.
Azurehue22@reddit
A car is… very very very different than an airplane. You just can’t compare them. The only similarity is they are both vehicles.
VoiceActorForHire@reddit
Beautiful livery
Muunwalker09@reddit
I love the colour scheme, it gives me James Bond vibes don’t know why 🥶
0D1246@reddit
Maybe it should be seized and sold. Then buy weapons from the proceeds and give them to Ukraine.
Muunwalker09@reddit
What?
novar41@reddit
This is probably a much answered question, but… What happens to the crew that operated that plane? Did they get dead headed back to Russia?
wildrabbit12@reddit
Stolen planes
ProjectNo864@reddit
As a European seeing what US has done recently, they should be sanctioned too
aviation-ModTeam@reddit
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ImmediateSeat6447@reddit
Recently ??? So US' actions Iraq, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, Serbia, Afghanistan and elsewhere were OK because the orange guy was not doing them? It shocks how oblivious Europeans can be about catastrophic US foreign policy over the past 30 years. Sadly, many of these illegal activities were supported by European governments or they looked the other way, pretending nothing happened. If international law was equally applied there would be no "western" air travel outside the western US controlled block. The West would basically become and oversized North Korea given its actions (i.e. wars and coups of aggression, supporting terrorism, economic warfare and coercion, etc.) over the past 30 years.
aviation-ModTeam@reddit
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possiblecrimes@reddit
Maybe, if a miracle happens and all the sanctions are lifted, all lease disputes resolved, maintenance preserved AND it somehow makes it’s way back to Russia, gets a Russian registration - then yes, it might fly for Aeroflot.
On the other hand, it could be returned to the lessor or sold on secondary market.
All of the scenarios are likely to take years, so we can’t accurately predict the future.
Galf2@reddit
if a miracle happens it becomes part of the payment for the war damages, you mean.
possiblecrimes@reddit
That’s probably the least realistic outcome. (If you’re not being sarcastic)
It is a privately owned A321 LEASED asset, not Russian state property. Reparations are handled by state, like frozen assets (which will be used).
Galf2@reddit
As explained, it's owned by GTLK, it's on the sanctions list and a Russian state company, so it's definitely not sarcasm
Also just like Russia is doing we need to start appropriating assets that are related to Russia even if not owned by Russia, but that's another discourse entirely.
possiblecrimes@reddit
Fair, but you will still have layers of international aviation law, insurance claims, maintenance and more of a headache to deal with. A stored A321 with very questionable preservation will be a very inefficient way of compensation compared to the frozen assets I’ve mentioned in my other reply.
CockpitExplorer@reddit (OP)
Do you think, the damage from improper storage without any maintenance will ever be repairable?
Also, i can only imagine the amount of parking fees it must have collected over the years.
Who ever wants to have this plane, he will have to invest a lot of monney to get it flying again.
crocolligator@reddit
Yes repairable but would be very expensive.
There are preservation procedures to induct the aircraft into long term storage, then repetitive storage checks must be performed weekly, monthly and every 6MO... lastly a depreservation package needs to be performed for RTS, on top of the calendar driven scheduled mx that went overdue. Doubt that airbus would issue an "AMPES-FCD" to defer these tasks.
it would most likely need a lot of zonal inspections to check for corrosion and the engins are now 100% unserviceable for being stagnant with no preservatives in the oil system and dessicants to absorb moisture
possiblecrimes@reddit
In theory, yes.
But speaking practically, it would be really expensive and hurting to finance, if years went by without proper maintenance. Long term storage without proper maintenance can cause a lot of hard technical issues, especially on CFM56s. On top of that, as you said after years of parking the fees and upkeep will reach fair heights in terms of prices. After years of all the processes the price to get it flying again will likely reach or even exceed it’s market value, so if someone would want to get it flying again, it will be easier to buy a newer, already serviced aircraft.
My prediction would probably be that this airframe will just be a parts donor to other aircraft at this point.
miko_idk@reddit
How are the avionics, can Boeing / Airbus - pilots easily get used to it? Otherwise no use ob the used market I guess?
BuckyDoneGun@reddit
Can Airbus pilots get used to the avionics on an Airbus A321? Is that what you're asking?
miko_idk@reddit
Sorry, didn't realize it's an A321. Thought it was a modern Avtonov operated by Aeroflot, as I talked about those planes with my gf yesterday.
antesocial@reddit
Documentation for the black market parts they sourced via Kazakhstan is going to be a doozy. Genuinely not sure what will be certifiable.
BuckeyeSRQ@reddit
Still odd seeing the Skyteam logo on the side of that bird after the way the last few years have gone
STI_Job@reddit
We had one at EHAM Schiphol but at least that one had covers and was also parked on a remote stand... i believe it was there for more than 2 years, VP-BAC eventually got flown away.
InfiniteGene8125@reddit
It'll definitely be scrapped, however, some parts might be reused
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
Ironically possibly less fucked than the ones that fly in Russia, since it is now a hangar queen, I imagine it still has all legal parts and could thus be reactivated using normal methods when the current unpleasantness with Putin is over.
The ones Aeroflot is flying within archon of destruction in Russia? Yea, those are fucked, because in order for ANYONE in the "first world" to recertify them, they would likely need to be stripped down to parts all parts tested and planes build again, and frankly? I don't see China being happy about Russia flying Iran mantained planes in its air space, or to do the work on foreign designs to make that possible.
Xenonnnnnnnnn@reddit
Hey I see this thing almost weekly from the Highway
The_Pharoah@reddit
lol hey!! I was there in Dec. Took the bus all the way to the end (the bus turns around after that point) and spotted that A321.
notthegoodscissors@reddit
At Helsinki Airport, there is a privately owned business jet that has been parked at a remote stand for the same amount of time. No covers on anything and no maintenance done whatsoever during that entire time. The bill for the parking alone would be substantial!
ABoutDeSouffle@reddit
Jewgeni Prigozhin's private business jet is stranded in Berlin since 2022. Unlikely the Wagner guys will pick it up any time soon.
tiredofredt@reddit
Just tons and tons of scrap
Immediate-Spite-5905@reddit
i hope it is, aeroflot is not an airline that deserves to exist and it serves at the whims of Putin's band of war criminals
Public_Fucking_Media@reddit
No more than a normal Aeroflot plane I'd imagine, god only knows what rotted out chineseum parts those fucking war criminal murderers can get these days
SalsaForte@reddit
A French content creator just released a video on this topic.
https://youtu.be/mMwV1y1v0lo
Ironically, planes that are stocked in Russia have been stolen by Russian companies. And the safety record is going downhill within Russia. I suspect this plane will require major maintenance or will be salvage for parts.
ItsMeOnly3@reddit
Arrested and await its fate: https://www.ch-aviation.com/news/138006-lessor-flies-out-ex-aeroflot-a320-stranded-in-amsterdam
747ER@reddit
I’m sure it’s the same situation, but the article you’ve attached is actually talking about a different aircraft. This is an A321 (MSN 5755), your article is about an A320 (MSN 7215).
ItsMeOnly3@reddit
It's mentioned in last paragraph
MAVACAM@reddit
Sure it's mentioned but VP-BOE (the A321 in this post) hasn't been seized yet - the article is talking about VP-BAC.
ItsMeOnly3@reddit
MAVACAM@reddit
Russian aircraft are currently banned from Swiss airspace so VP-BOE is unable to legally leave Geneva.
There is nothing that suggests VP-BOE has been seized by Swiss authorities - the aircraft still legally belongs to Aeroflot.
Thanks for proving my point.
ItsMeOnly3@reddit
ok, now I get your point and I stand corrected
AndrewChikatilo@reddit
Seized? Did you misspell ‘stolen’?
Samtulp6@reddit
Nope, seized.
Stolen are all the aircraft that russia refused to return to its owners, the lessors, after it rightfully got sanctioned after beginning yet another war targeting innocent civilians.
CockpitExplorer@reddit (OP)
But can it just be flown out or is the damage of parking for 4 Years without proper maintenance to great?
ItsMeOnly3@reddit
u/possiblecrimes answered that eloquently. We can only speculate.
dpaanlka@reddit
Stop saying cooked.
ThrowRASadPanda10101@reddit
You're cooked
Proton_Energy_Pill@reddit
If for nothing else it'd be good for spare parts. Lots of valuable parts in a complete plane.
Ok-Limit-9726@reddit
I would walk before getting on AEROFLOP
possiblecrimes@reddit
In theory, yes.
But speaking practically, it would be really expensive and hurting to finance, if years went by without proper maintenance. Long term storage without proper maintenance can cause a lot of hard technical issues, especially on CFM56s. On top of that, as you said after years of parking the fees and upkeep will reach fair heights in terms of prices. After years of all the processes the price to get it flying again will likely reach or even exceed it’s market value, so if someone would want to get it flying again, it will be easier to buy a newer, already serviced aircraft.
My prediction would probably be that this airframe will just be a parts donor to other aircraft at this point.
egvp@reddit
It isn’t food, so I’m not sure you can cook it.
airport-codes@reddit
I am a bot.
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