Refund from National Rail for being wrongly prosecuted - Should I accept or escalate?

Posted by ChestNumerous4150@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 41 comments

Hi there, I’m sure people might have heard about Nation Rail coming under fire for wrongly prosecuting members of the public. (If not https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyx0p18kq74o.amp) I have my own case of escalations and appeals over this and have been told I’m due a refund, I ended up paying around £3000 to a collection company to clear the debt shortly before I received the first correspondence about being entitled to a refund. On my last correspondence I was told I was actually wrongly prosecuted under this SJP ruling 4 times. Having researched and spoken to someone I know who had the same situation they were offered a few hundred pound as a refund. My question is, is it worth denying the refund and escalating this to go further to claim back the full amount I paid? Having to borrow the money off family to pay it back meant for a year or so I was constantly short of money chasing my tail, not to mention the strain it put on relationships for me. Any and all answers are appreciated! Thanks

Reply to Post

41 Comments

[-]

No-Sherbert-9589@reddit

Take proper legal advice.

[-]

Chilled-Fridge@reddit

Oh hell yes. Don’t stop until you’ve got AT LEAST the money you paid to them, even then I’d want more for the emotional pressure. Fuck them.

[-]

Kind-County9767@reddit

Unless you can prove a cost for that pressure you won't get anything. The UK legal system blows in some ways.

[-]

BabaGanoushHabibi@reddit

I think you have to show on the balance of probabilities you've got significant emotional harm from it.

[-]

Kind-County9767@reddit

And that emotional harm has caused a financial loss. Which is almost never has

[-]

BabaGanoushHabibi@reddit

I am not sure you have to show a financial loss you could be right I am not arguing. I think usually the consequences of the harm are like loss of job/income.

[-]

williamshatnersbeast@reddit

‘National Rail’ If you can’t get that bit right I’d probably leave it alone as long as you get your money back. Out of interest, how did it get to three grand? Did you ignore the initial fine or something?

[-]

ChestNumerous4150@reddit (OP)

Bore off 🙂 paid my ticket cost on the platform and appealed the fine that followed, submitted evidence to show ticket machines at my local station were out of order and heard nothing back. Moved out of my parents house into my own place, mum got a letter from a collection agency, argued my case with them and it escalated until I had to pay the collection agency in full.

[-]

williamshatnersbeast@reddit

Funny that I’m told to ‘bore off’ (which is just a way of someone confirming they were wrong about something but not being big enough to admit it) but you’ve then claimed it was a typo to several other people who have raised the same point. It ceases being a typo when you’ve repeated it several times in quick succession over different posts/comments. Facts are, believe it or not, important… like the name of the TOC in this case. Anyway, even though there’s possibly a bit of an issue with the fact you failed to follow up on your appeal and failed to update your address for correspondence, I hope you get your money back as you are owed it if you’ve been notified of wrongful prosecution. You’ll probably have a hard time claiming any mental anguish or hardship but you are entitled to push for interest that you could’ve had on the money. Whether you can push for the other things or not is a different matter and then you have to weigh up if it’s worth a lot of your time and effort for whatever that might be. If you’re getting the £3k plus interest I’d call it a day personally as it’ll likely be a lot of hassle for not much more but only you can make that decision for your circumstances. You won’t be getting hundreds of pounds on top, even if they do accept you have suffered other loss from the fine. It’ll never much black and white I think.s Obviously if they offer less than the amount you paid (which they shouldn’t) it’s worth much more of a fight.

[-]

SquareBondageDuck@reddit

It’s with the train operating company not National Rail. What was the TOC?

[-]

ChestNumerous4150@reddit (OP)

Northern Rail/Merseyrail I’m aware it’s not with National Rail it was a typo

[-]

gggggu-not@reddit

I say take them for all you can, as they are cunts. However putting my legal side, it’s not as clear cut as that. The key thing is, did you do, what would be reasonable to mitigate your losses. I.e did they issue the fine, you ignored until the debt collectors came in, and allowed the costs to increase, when you had the means to pay. If so, NR will likely just have to pay what you have reasonably lost if you engaged with the fines etc. However it’s not a catch all, if you was on a very low income and couldn’t afford the original fines I’m talking kids not having food on their plate if you paid the fine, or had mental health issues (documented) then these are mitigating circumstances and you can use these to recoup the extra costs. Hope you get as much as you can

[-]

North_Compote1940@reddit

I would disagree. If they had no entitlement to the money in the first place, then they cannot have any entitlement to any costs they wrongly incurred in chasing it or interest on it. While there is a duty to pay a debt due, there is no duty to pay one which is wrongly claimed in order to avoid a further claim which is without foundation.

[-]

gggggu-not@reddit

I disagree too, it’s an awful system, but it is what it is. The legal system is all about mitigating losses, if it went to court NR will argue the OP didn’t engage and caused the costs to increase, however if they did engage, appealed and went through the relevant process but was still fined, then 100% the OP should get back full costs.

[-]

EpochRaine@reddit

If I had received a conviction and had received a letter confirming I was wrongly prosecuted, I would be talking to a Solicitor about damages for wrongful prosecution, and claiming all monies paid to them.

[-]

Fragrant_Associate43@reddit

This.

[-]

CordwainerMudworble@reddit

Seems only reasonable for them to pay you £6,000. Ie your money back and a fine equal to the amount they fined you.

[-]

-info-sec-@reddit

How much time do you want to invest in this? If you have a busy life, take the cash and move on. Obviously you did something wrong at the start, therefore evens, and walk

[-]

ChestNumerous4150@reddit (OP)

In what way have I done something wrong? If there’s no staff on the desk and ticket machines are out of order that’s purely the fault of the company and not mine. As stated I paid the cost of the train fare, it’s the extra £120 I received ontop I’m appealing

[-]

ARobertNotABob@reddit

You are out of pocket as a result of the wrongful conviction now quashed. I'm not certain who, but someone owes you your costs as well as interest on them.

[-]

beernon@reddit

So this ruling allows 74,000 prosecutions (let’s say 20% of them were a mistake in selecting the wrong railcards or something) to just go scot free?

[-]

ChestNumerous4150@reddit (OP)

Not at all, no one at the desk in my local station and ticket machines on the platform were down. Wasn’t able to buy a ticket on the train so once on the platform I was pulled aside, I paid the value of the ticket there and then and appealed the £100 fine I was given as a result. So I covered the cost of my journey and was STILL wrongly prosecuted, but hey, don’t let that get in the way of that boot in your mouth.

[-]

beernon@reddit

No need to be mean, your situation sucks and you’re one of the 20% I explicitly mentioned

[-]

ChestNumerous4150@reddit (OP)

My bad misread that a bit, was an early rise this morning

[-]

ClacksInTheSky@reddit

They were wrongly prosecuted, regardless. The correct procedure has to be followed or things like this happen. The flip side is spending hundreds of thousands re-investigating each case whilst 20% (let's say) are innocent people put through the wringer like the OP

[-]

Carrente@reddit

People tend to be very annoyed that checks and balances exist right up until the point where those checks and balances save them.

[-]

Mental_Body_5496@reddit

Absolutely!

[-]

Carrente@reddit

Yes, if that's how you want to see it. If you'd rather ignore procedure and the rule of law when it doesn't suit you.

[-]

EatOfTheBread@reddit

Did you get on the train without paying?

[-]

ChestNumerous4150@reddit (OP)

Yes, there was no one at the desk in my local station and ticket machines were also out of order. I provided them with a picture of the machine out of order on my appeal.

[-]

velos85@reddit

The fact that debt collectors came around, I would be getting the £3000 back and then I would escalate for stress and trauma caused by being chased and threatened by these companies.

[-]

Baynonymous@reddit

Throw in lost interest at 9% for the £3,000

[-]

Tuarangi@reddit

Definitely worth asking but it's 8% not 9 - that's the level the FOS refunds at, they aren't going to pay more

[-]

Koda614@reddit

If they have admitted that they were in the wrong and are offering you your money back, and you have evidence to prove you paid the balance to their appointed collections agency, then you’d be entitled to the full balance paid as a refund at minimum. If you can demonstrate material loss then you may be able to squeeze more out of them too to cover this. You may have to fight for it and this will involve more stress and hassle, but you’re entitled to this at the end of the day and they shouldn’t get away with it. Try legal advice subs, or even speaking to citizens advice as a starting point. They will both be better placed to advise on how you go about getting the ball rolling.

[-]

West-Kaleidoscope129@reddit

You get your full refund!

[-]

FinalEdit@reddit

You have suffered a material loss and considerable hardship. You shouldn't accept this easily offer whatsoever. You possibly also shouldn't have paid the 3k in the first place but obviously we don't know the details or reasoning behind that. I would absolutely seek to get that entire sum back myself. As others have said try r/legaladviceuk

[-]

EffectiveAlarming875@reddit

100% escalate to get the full amount back. How is this even a question?

[-]

barejokez@reddit

At first I thought you were asking if you should accept a full refund or escalate to get compensation as well - I thought, hey, maybe but don't get too greedy. When I learnt that the offer didn't even cover the charge you had wrongly paid in the first place, well... Take them for all you can mate.

[-]

Flavourifshrrp@reddit

Yeah exactly. If it wasn’t you, and you paid the money, you should get at least all of the cash back. Personally with these companies I always think it’s never take the first offer.

[-]

Drwynyllo@reddit

Maybe ask on r/LegalAdviceUK where you'll probably get a better assessment of the likely hassle/reward ratio.

[-]

AutoModerator@reddit

**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - When replying to submission/post please **make genuine efforts to answer the question given**. Please no jokes, judgements, etc. If a post is marked 'Serious Answers Only' **you may receive a ban for violating this rule**. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*