It’s resentment.
You got a choice to leave even though you were not in great danger if you are not near the frontline. Got support from the other country too - and a lot of perks. You can build your life wherever you want, a golden ticket people some from your country would kill for *before* the war.
They get to get busified from the street and sent into trenches to get disintegrated by a fab. They couldn’t just leave because the government won’t let them. They are treated like a cannon fodder for their country and government - and, presumably, for you. And you decide to just build your life or whatever you call it elsewhere.
I would do the same and you should do the same. But don’t pretend like you don’t understand their resentment. You do.
No, they should feel guilty. Women wanted equality. I also distinctly remember the west and Ukraine hyping up the anti Putin feminist group called Femen. Now that shit hits the fan, there is a war and an excellent opportunity to beat Putin, all feminists are dead quiet. Feminism and the complaints of unfair and unequal treatment are only used as a beating stick to whip average men into submission. Men serve as a safety net though, because I know and you know, that when a crisis arrives, there will be no equality. Normal men are resented by women, and then they are supposed to die for them.
They shouldn't feel guilty? Get the fuck outta here
I don’t know about this story and can’t say if it is correct or not, but a single woman is not responsible for everything women had ever done regardless.
If you're feminist and hold an idea of an equal treatment of men and women in society, and you don't call out such obvious discrimination, then you're a hypocrite.
Feminists in Nordic countries fought for equal treatment in the army and the conscription of women - precisely because with equal responsibilities come equal rights.
After the war Ukrainian women most likely won't have equal standing (especially in politics) in Ukrainian society - because they didn't sacrifice as much as men did.
That is true, it would be a hypocrisy - as the majority of expression of feminism in modern western countries is. One can hate the system for being unfair, yes, but it is useless and unfair to transfer the blame onto the whole sex, let alone a single person. Whatever that organization the original commenter had mentioned did was probably not done by this particular girl. No need to blame or hate her for that.
As for them not having equal standing - won’t happen in my opinion, even though some people might think that would be fair. Here is how I see it(assuming the country will be divided, which seems to be the trajectory the conflict had taken):
The part that is to stay with Ukraine will have a class of men requiring special attention/promotion in veterans, especially wounded ones, which is unusual since usually it is the women who get the preferential treatment. Otherwise it will get restored to post-soviet brand of equality so to speak with some domestic problems, but little “negative influence” of religion while having more legacy influence of Soviet liberal abortion laws. The part that is to stay with Ukraine will be influenced by European NGOs and grants with terms to promote EU brand of feminism both in media and in policies slowly changing it to a more European country in that regards in the coming years. Ukraine is a poor country AND is devastated by war, there wouldn’t want to say no to this even if they wanted to. Which they won’t - getting into EU and becoming a European country had been a promoted national idea for years to begin with - from the trade zone debacle leading to revolution and besides - that is decidedly anti-Russian and thus definitely good for them.
It’s is all speculation of course, but it does sound realistic to me.
I am gonna blame and hate her. Her comfortable life and that complaint she was making as if I have to feel some sort of pity for her. It's a spit on the face of the men who die for nothing on a daily basis. The Ukrainian men ought to put down their arms and not fight. They're fighting for people who don't even care that they live or die.
Eisenhower became the president after WW2. Ulysses Grant became the president after the Civil War. Literally right now the biggest political rival of Zelenskyy is general Zaluzhny. Ukrainian parliament will be packed with veterans after the war - not female ones, though.
I would probably be more concerned about Russian politics going that way, they have been promoting putting their war veterans into political positions from the start of the conflict and are independent in their politics.
I can see some influence of war veterans on Ukrainian politics, yes, but them getting majority power - let alone going against liberal policies? Not going to happen without another revolution - and on the off chance that will happen, the question on where to take money for rebuilding the country will still stand. Ukraine won’t be independent enough from EU funding anytime soon to go against whatever EU will want from them. And don’t get me wrong, I am not putting it as a bad thing, some things in Ukraine, like corruption, are super backwards. It is just a matter of fact.
I feel like we're taking about two completely different things or your missing my point. I'm generally agreeing with you on the foreign influence on the political scene, but that's not really what I'm arguing about.
I'm not saying veteran party will dominate the post-war political scene. Or only men will matter after it's over. I'm saying there probably will be a veteran president, there will some veteran MPS - and they'll use the army experience as an argument to vote for them. But those won't be women - at least not in
Again, men in Ukraine pay bigger price in this war, and (some) of them will get the advantages for that.
Yeah this, totally. I know young Ukrainian women who could, during the war, leave Ukraine, travel the world and have some summer romance in fucking Bali. It's not like they have children, family members to take care of or even
At the same time, I know Ukrainian men who are unable to leave the country for even a weekend - just to attend a wedding of very close family.
Totally agree with this, but I think it's worth also explicitly naming the nationalist dimension of this.
Men in Ukraine fight and die, voluntarily or not, for "their country" and the Ukrainian nation. Meanwhile many women have not only left, but will have non-Ukrainian partners with whom they will have non-Ukrainian children growing up in not-Ukraine. (This is simplified of course, but probably most half-Ukrainian children will grow up mostly detached from the country and will not "return" and their descendants will be even more assimilated)
Absolutely no one is obligated to have children at all let alone with men of the "right" ethnicity/nationality/race to provide a future for x ethnicity/nationality/race, but if people are not doing so that still has consequences and in a very real sense this contributes to the destruction of the Ukrainian nation as much as the war itself.
Ultimately if enough women leave Ukraine, Ukrainian men's reward for fighting for their country will also not only be the decline of their country in general, but also the probable death of their own family and bloodline in particular even if they survive the war. Like most cultures on Earth, they're certainly family-centred enough for this to matter to them.
If there is to be a rebuilt Ukraine, it's heroes will not live to see it and many will not have the chance to have descendants see it either. If the country even manages to be successful and an attractive country to move to, it will probably greatly be to the benefit of either random immigrants or to culturally foreign half-Ukrainians with greater human and material capital who will outcompete locals on the market or buy up businesses and property.
If that’s the case be mad at the rich psychopaths that start wars and not the women that make rational decisions not to be blown to bits. I swear to god I don’t understand for the life of me why people can’t see that their enemy isn’t the person that looks different or is the wrong gender and not the rich fuckhead who is trying to divide you and take all you shit.
There is little difference in life conditions between the countries - and it is not in Ukraine’s favor. Ukraine is basically Russia, but poorer. Russia was one of the big emigration destinations for Ukrainians before the war.
That being said I’m taking living in a first world country over living in either any day of course, - as the OP did.
If you don’t understand he is essentially saying “I am guy and if you want I can send you boobs”… if “siski” has different meaning in Slovakian please tell me what it is
Yeah, but he wrote siski, not shishka. Thanks, I forgot that you can refer to dick that way BUT he wrote siski, important it ends with “i” which implies plural form and either guy has more than one dick or he has photos of multiple dicks… both don’t sound so good
The English part seems fine. I've worked alongside quite a few younger Ukrainians (mid-20's to early 30's) who've become reasonably proficient in English over the past few years. Their phones are usually not set to English, but they do fine otherwise with emails, texts, social media, reports, reading menus and labels, and participating in meetings.
Most Ukrainian refugees are in Europe and don't speak English. Very, very few women are on 4chan. Those factors together mean the chances of this being legit are minimal.
One of my coworkers is a refugee in her late 20s who came here at the start of the war. Not only is she basically fluent in my language already (which I find astounding as the local language is famously a crapshoot to learn and some of my local coworkers make stupid grammatical mistakes all the time), my firm recently financed part of a three week intensive English course for her - she already spoke okay English before, that was more a... B2 to C1 booster, honestly. At the end of her apprenticeship she'll most likely be fully fluent in four languages.
I got to know a bunch of Ukrainian refugees over the last couple of years, and a lot of them, especially the younger ones, speak pretty good English. Some of them make the pretty stereotypical mistake of omitting a or the, but with some of them there's only a little bit of an accent. Unsurprisingly, the most fluent are the internet-brained gamers, same as with the local population here.
Same situation with learning local language and English where I live. And Czech is notoriously hard to learn too, especially ř and our grammar rules overall.
Because it checks all the boxes. It is probably written by a guy who fantasizes about ukranian womens and wants them to stay. "Why am i obligated to men who were more likely to beat me than the men here" This reads like an incel argument why he deserves a women.
A real Person would probably use a more personal reasoning.
Can confirm, the absolute majority of Ukrainians never ever heard about four chins, and English is considered a swear word. Any foreign language but English is OK to learn here.
On one hand, women and children were expected to flee from war, since the dawn of human history.
On the other hand, there are tough Ukrainian women in medical roles and volunteer roles who choose to stay, still contributing without having to be in the trenches.
Because a patriarchal society inherently puts value on owning women. It serves this purpose to shame you for being "stolen from them" by other men when they feel they are rightfully owed you.
Why are you downvoted when literally this is what it is, I’m Ukrainian and the sentiment of Ukrainian men who stayed there towards women who left is exactly this. And god forbid you dare to date a man from a different ethnicity (and if he’s different race it’s even worse for them), you’re immediately a traitor and to be publicly stoned
I don't care that I'll get downvoted for this but this isn't about lack of gratitude.
It's upsetting that you're in the wrong for moving on with your life as a refuge in your countries eyes. People only get upset when the women do it though which does seem sexist right?
These comments show no attempt to even empathise with or see it from the perspective of the men going to die though.
As for it being sexist. I’m not sure male refugees who go to other countries and pursue relationships there are free from judgement either. I’ve heard many times “they should be back in their country making it safe for the women and children there”
I think it's shitty for people to be controlling over other people and judging either men or women for being refuges.
Do women really have to specify for everyone, she's clearly not talking about literally every male in her country.
I’m not judging anyone for being a refugee. I’m judging the lack of perspective with which they’re generalising and criticising the attitude of the men who are having their guts blown out by drones in a ditch in eastern Ukraine. I completely understand why they’d be hurt seeing their countries women being able to go abroad and seek relationships and live their lives there. Obviously that’s fair for Ukrainian women to do but the complete lack of empathy is what bothers me. You’re obviously a woman and therefore going to have more empathy for the women complaining about perceptions of them dating rather than the men being killed. We should leave it here.
Wait, do you think these women really don't care about their men back home at all?
Like the men who move are just trying to move on with their lives too right?
Like yeah obviously they get why it could be upsetting for people that stay at home but I don't get where the jump is to thinking the refuges don't care about the people back at home.
Also I'm a man, the first comment is right 100%, when white men see black guys fuck white girls they get possessive, when men see women move countries and marry another man they get upset. Regardless of what you think, there is social pressure for women to only fuck the right kind of guy in terms of race and ethnicity.
I feel like it's not crazy to say a lot of women's rights has been about being able to choose for themselves and even still to this day these choices come with weird underhanded ideas from men trying to pressure the women into making "the right choice".
By "men who stayed there" do you mean "men who weren't allowed to leave the country, abducted from their homes and forced to go to the frontlines to die for civilians who are partying in other countries while they die in the mud"?
The men who stayed there are doing so against their will and will be sent into the worst fighting of the 21st century just so you can keep being a Ukrainian woman.
Call me a chud, but it's disgusting to see an entire generation of men being told they need to commit sacrifice for a corrupt shithole while women like you live comfortably in the west with no plans of returning and contempt for those dying on your behalf.
I don't really understand what your trying to say, as your comment is a bit schizo, but im gonna piggyback off it anyway. Ukraine should have set up local manufacturing of arms, built up there logistics and defense, and get actually prepared for a war when they knew damn well it was coming back in 2012. If that were in place, they could have implemented the drafting of an equal amount woman to support the cause. Or better yet, work out a deal in a war they know they will lose. I'm sure alot of Ukranian woman would have stayed if they had the infrastructure to help the war effort far away from the front line, as many of nations have done. Instead they get dumped into a helpless shitshow of a conflict. I'd leave too.
Ukraine tried to join NATO. the whole world knew damn well that would piss off Russia. The Russian invasion wasn't a tragic suprise to the Ukrainian government, it was a reasonable (to them) sacrifice that backfired from the corrupt Ukrainian leadership. All that time to work out a deal over Crimea and other territories, just to send all there young men to die. A good leader (with the world backing him) would surely try and protect there dwindling population even if it meant they'd have to take a deal in a war they can't win. Instead they scoop what few citizens they have left and send them into this bullshit.
To be clear Euromaidan revolution was preceded by the Ukrainian vote and commitment to try joining the EU, not NATO which had not been seriously considered by anyone at that point and not requested by Ukraine either. When Yanukovich pulled Ukraine away from trying to join the EU it sparked protests that led to the revolution which then were exploited by Russia to seize Crimea and foment unrest in the Donbass.
As for what a wise ruler would do, they’re doing it. There is no lasting peace with Russia where Ukraine is independent of their influence where they have not taken a huge bite out of the Russian military and economy. They have done so, though had a high cost themselves.
Yeah bro, why would guys who were captured by roving bands of unmarked Ukranian millitary vans and forced against their will to go fight on the frontlines and get turned into a bloody mist by drones have any resentment against their own women leaving them to die just to live it up like whores for foreign men in western countries?
Yeah, but I guess the damn patriarchy is at it again? Sybau.
If you build a life in the country you move to then you are not planning to go back to your old country. If you plan to go back to your old country then you should maintain a distance in the country you're seeking shelter in. It's about choosing where you belong, and people are absolutely within their moral right to reject you for abandoning your (and their) country for another.
Because you will be a foreigner to the people of the country you move to. You're not the same as them because you're not from there. And you'll be someone that abandoned the country to the people in the country you left behind. It's all a choice you make by immigrating to a new place.
*"Ukrainian men should dodge the draft, it’s not worth defending Ukraine... and Kiev regime should give warm-water ports to Russia... and EU should not confiscate frozen Russian assets beacuse stealing is bad"* - Ukrainian woman on 4chan
Dude, I get this is Reddit and you feel like you just agree with current thing
But the fact is 1/3rd of Ukrainian men have died
Their women have been sent to foreign countries to start families with other men
I’ve seen countless Ukrainian men beg for the war to end, they literally resort to capturing Ukrainian men and forcing them to conscript you can easily find footage of this happening over and over again
You clearly hate Russia which is fine so let me ask you. When Ukraine eventually runs out of fighting aged men will you support a EU draft to send other men to fight for Ukraine ? Will you ever personally fight for Ukraine ?
If these questions make me right wing then you are a terminally online Redditor
The actually unbelievable part of this is that she's getting mostly hate online. Maybe here and there, but there is no way majority of men in any part of the world are against having Ukrainian women around
I'd say many ukrainian men are against it, but they're too busy getting exploded in ukraine for them to ever meet ukrainian women in real life in whatever random other country they fled to.
maybe don't listen to people online (or offline for that matter) who berate and attack you?
online has one great feature - you can turn it off anytime you want
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