God I love the GMT800 so much. The Tahoe is easily my fave in this list. Followed only by the Sequoia mainly thanks to its cushy interior as they noted in the test.
It's funny, Im really not a gm guy. I've always been ford/Japanese in my preferences with the occasional jeep scattered in, but when it came to getting a workhorse truck I was looking for something with good parts availability, cheap, reliable, capable, and bulletproof. I narrowed it down to pretty much 3 options; a sequoia (no truck bed and parts are expensive), a 7.3 or v10 ford (the 7.3s in particular arent particularly cheap for what you get and the v10s were all beat), or a gmt400 or 800 with the 4l80. I worked on my buddy's 400 for a bit and just kept running into things that were just a little too tedious for my liking (like the power steering bracket or other bs like that) but I stumbled ass first into a 2001 2500 for about 3k.
This truck has been great. Im genuinely annoyed how much I like it. Everything I need to work just *works*. It's comfortable, spacious, every time I need to turn a wrench (it's a 25 year old cheap truck with 350k miles on it) it's intuitive and cheap to fix. Gm truly stumbled ass first into making a really damn good truck.
GMT800 Tahoes have that charm, and the sunroof was a rarer option but it did exist. Funny enough the new Sequoia seems to keep that cushy vibe while the hybrid torque makes it feel calmer around town from what I’ve seen, did you ever drive one back to back?
I can’t say I have. Difference is now the Chevy interiors are more or less as cushy as the Toyotas.
I’ve also learned that the sunroof was available in the trucks for select model years!
GMT800 SUVs had the option of a sunroof for the entire run. Extended/Crew Cab pickups only had it for two years. You could get the sunroof and DVD player on the SUVs, but you had to choose one or the other for the pickups.
Your useless GMT800 fact of the day, GOBBLESS.
Yeah that platform is the GOAT for me. I've owned many vehicles and always keep coming back to the GMT800. I have a '05 Tahoe with almost 300k miles and an '03 LB7 now. I think it's possible that this is the best truck/suv platform in modern history.
I’m not saying these cars should or need to do 0-60 in the 4’s but it is interesting how the acceleration of the Chevy/GM siblings basically has not improved at all since 2002. 8.3 sec versus 7.5 sec today. The current gen Sequoia and the Expedition can both do 0-60 in mid 5’s.
Maybe I'm starting to get old, but I just don't like the idea of long term ownership of a big, heavy SUV with a 2.4L 4 cylinder turbo hybrid. I'd rather spend a bit more on gas and have a relatively simple V8 that will need less maintenance dollars as the mileage creeps up.
The problem with hybrids comes when manufacturers use it as an excuse to make the engine as anemic as possible for cost or emissions reasons, instead of adding utility and power. The F150 powerboost is done so well because its the standard 3.5L V6 ecoboost that you find in a normal F150, but with the addition of an electric motor between the engine and the transmission that can output 7.2kwh of electricity to the bed outlets and bump up fuel economy and torque. It's so good that they're talking about adding a hybrid coyote V8 option, and so if you can get the sound and feel and lower complexity from eight naturally aspirated cylinders without sacrificing fuel economy and power, I think it is the ideal setup.
Toyota went the other way, using hybrids to shrink down engine sizes and cylinder count to make up for performance, leaving you with a small engine that is pushed hard that gets not great fuel economy. There's a reason they make $30B a year, but time will tell if they did it right or if they just cashed in one two decades of building equity into their reputation. And stellantis is out here giving up on hybrids entirely because they apparently cannot figure out golf cart level technology.
Toyota’s small engines make good efficiency (Prius, Corolla, Rav4, etc). Not only that, their eCVTs are an amazing gearbox design that is nearly bombproof.
What issues with Toyota’s motors are you referring to?
It works for the cars because those are designed to be commuters and people movers, but it hits their trucks pretty hard. Trying to move a big heavy box through the wind while also hauling a hybrid system can bring the payload capacity of certain trims of the 4runner, land cruiser, and tacoma down to near or even under 1000 pounds. That is 4 adults plus their stuff and you probably hit the limit. To put it into perspective, most trims of those vehicles won't be over 1500lb of payload which is what a Ford Maverick can carry, and its where the ranger generally starts. If you want to go camping or overlanding, which a lot of people buy these vehicles specifically to do, you either have to pack extremely light or run wildly over GVWR which is what most people end up doing.
Not to mention they also have tiny gas tanks and not that great fuel economy considering all the compromises on the powertrain, so range is probably 350 miles on a good day. If they just upsized the engine and the hybrid system they would be in a much better place, considering Ford is able to get the same fuel economy in a bigger 3.5L turbo hybrid V6 in a full sized F150, that has 1,000 pounds more payload capacity and 10 more gallons of fuel.
Just comparing 2026 Tundra hybrid and F-150 Hybrid in similar trims, they look roughly equivalent - not a huge difference in specifications. I trust you if you are into things like 4-runners and overlanding and whatnot, but a hybrid is going to do much better mpg over time than a non-hybrid drivetrain if you are doing a mix of in town and highway driving. People make the same complaint when they buy a hybrid Lexus RX and then complain that their highway mpg isn’t better than the V6 variant: highway is not where a hybrid drivetrain shines, and it never will be.
Correct, hybrids are built for the city. It's why the Camry hybrid became a popular choice for New York taxis after the Crown Vic ceased production. However if you are a person who does a lot of freeway driving, a hybrid isn't for you. Even turbochargers on a little engine doesn't do anything because they just give you low end torque. You want a NA engine, or maybe electric if you can handle waiting 45 minutes for it to charge at every stop.
Big NA engines come with additional pumping and bearing losses that the turbocharger alleviates. Turbocharged engines are application-specific. Engineers pick the turbocharger wheels and volute sizes to perform specific tasks, whether to add low end or top end, depending on what they want to do with the engine.
The problems come when the power density gets too high, the engines start to feel leaky and a lack of inertia in the drivetrain doesn’t “feel” right to the driver, even if it is functionally superior to a big NA engine. There are also question of longevity, as the higher power is being loaded on less bearing surface, and heat in the cylinders is being transferred and held in less metal and smaller transfer surfaces, all the things that make a small turbo engines come with more efficient can hurt it over the long haul due to there just being less material.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I predict in 10, 20 years we will look back on the last generation of large displacement, DOHC, fully VVT, DI, chain driven, naturally aspirated V8s as a golden era.
5.0 litres making 375-400 hp with good low end torque and good high end power, but with no turbocharging or mild hybrids to heat-soak, or CEL these drivetrains to death. Sure, lots of them had chain, guide or liner problems but most of those got fixed and once they are... I think they are the last 300,000 mile engines.
That said, people were really critical of the first Ford Ecoboost V6s in the F-150s so I wonder what the concensus is 10, 15 years later - where the doubters right? I got the 5.4 V8 and literally only did oil changes and a serpentine belt until I sold it at 300,000km...
You are referring to the Prado version of the Land Cruiser which is a size down from full-size. It's 17 inches shorter than the Tahoe. It's similar to the 4Runner & GX in dimensions. NA used to get the full-size Land Cruiser but toyota changed it to the Prado in the newest generation. Other markets have gotten both for decades.
No company except Toyota has what you are saying and they aren't used on the full size SUVs.
Most have a twin turbo 3.5l V6 hybrid which are complex but not high strung for a modern engine. They don't run crazy high boost.
I agree, I'd take a V8 high displacement in a heart beat when mpg is not much better with these new hybrid cars. I'd love to a Hyundai/KIA hybrid with a V8 and 8 speed though. Toyota has proven a hybrid system can be very reliable and achieve 250K+ miles without issues. Not to mention the 50% better mpg
It's not necessarily about being high strung - it's the two turbos, the intercooling piping, the hybrid motor, control system, wiring, motor cooling, battery pack cooling, battery pack, etc etc.
What's the going to be like at 150,000 miles?
On my 5.0 litre V8 Range Rover at 150,000 miles I'll probably have to do the timing chains, tensioners and guides again, and do the 6 cooling hoses, timing cover and valve cover gaskets, cam variators all as part of the same job, about $5k in parts if I go OEM - then I'll be good for another 10 years. Maybe sometime in there I'll have to do the starter, high pressure fuel pumps and low pressure pump but that's all typical high mileage car stuff.
The last thing I'll want is to budget for a $10,000 battery pack, $10,000 drive motor, $10,000 twin turbo setup, 2 dozen molded hoses and plastic pipes all in addition to the stuff my V8 needs...
New vehicles are definitely built more with the "Trade it every 2-3 years" or lease crowd in mind. Who cares if that 4cyl turbo starts burning oil at 80k, won't be their problem.
Smaller engine use is being driven primarily by global/Euro emissions requirements, along with manufacturers goals to minimize drivetrain development and production costs. Manufacturers are not able to both offer higher displacement engines while still meeting fleet emissions requirements (more cylinders = less efficiency, from a fleet perspective), and they don’t want to pay the emissions penalties just so you can have a V6 or V8. There are clearly exceptions, usually higher priced, low volume premium options, but manufacturers are banking on the fact that the vast majority of modern buyers do not keep their vehicles for more than 4-5 years before trading in, and their high strung, low displacement turbo engines are good enough/reliable enough for the market demands.
Yeah back when blocks were iron, compression was in the 8's, oil clearances were looser, and composite head gaskets were the norm. Then emissions regulations got tighter and everything changed.
Emissions requirements don’t force manufacturers to maximize hp/liter. Lower powered/less stressed motors last longer and still get the job done unless the job is racing.
Yeah it feels like GM’s been playing it safe for a long time, while the newer Sequoia picked up real off the line punch once it went hybrid. From what I’ve seen the higher trims add a lot of weight though, so even with mid 5s capability it probably doesn’t always feel that quick day to day.
Huh!?! When comparing 5.3L to 5.3L obviously it hasn't improvement. But the 6.2L will do 0-60 under 6 seconds depending on year/spec.
You think a modern Sequoia with a 4.6 or 4.7L would be any better? They'd probably be slower. Same with a 5.4L OHV in a expedition. Would be slower.
That’s my point though? You’d expect the vehicle to get incrementally better over time, let alone 20+ years. Expectations of what constitutes “good” acceleration have increased since 2004.
That's definitely a choice on GM's part. At this point engine building is an extremely well defined and documented science. The only ground that's being broken is improvements to emission control. It's not like the 70's where engineers were floored by the idea of the cross-flow cylinder head.
If GM wanted the Suburban to come with a reliable 700hp engine they would simply assemble it that way.
>>It's not like the 70's where engineers were floored by the idea of the cross-flow cylinder head.
Most of the innovations we see in consumer cars are not discoveries of the things themselves, they are investment in methods and supply chains to make those things cost effective and reliable.
For example, crossflow cylinder heads were not 70's innovations. When Rolls-Royce bought Bentley in the 30's they put Bentley's cross-flow heads onto the R-R old engine block for an instant power bump.
Same with pushrods vs overhead cams...
My friend has a 1924 Bentley 3 Litre with a 4-valve per cylinder overhead cam, dry sump, hemi head, and two spark per cylinder. But, it was a bit like the Veyron of the 20's - insane performance but zero consideration for daily usability or ease of service. It took 50 years for all those features to be cost effective to mass produce and be used as daily drivers for regular people.
>I’m not saying these cars should or need to do 0-60 in the 4’s but it is interesting how the acceleration of the Chevy/GM siblings basically has not improved much in the past 24 years. 8.3 sec versus 7.5 sec today.
Well, they've gained about 75 horsepower but also roughly 100-300 lbs. over the past 23 years. So that .8 seconds of improvement seems ok to me.
Likely mostly from gearing and transmission improvements. The standard 20 years ago was usually a 4 or maybe 5 speed gearbox. For instance the 05 Tahoe/Suburban came with GM’s four speed. Today it’s a 10 speed - more gears - shorter gears on the low end for more acceleration, more high gears for better fuel mileage, etc.
I’d bet if one sits down and does the math transmission improvements is the real hero in this trend over time.
The 1st gen Sequoia was an incredible car, made during peak Toyota, and the superior option for like 95% of people that weren't towing massive boats or something regularly. Shocked it came in third with a better engine, and interior than anything else in that test. A white on tan limited, with every option but the gold badging, is on my mom's "Car Mount Rushmore" along with her navy blue Volvo 240 wagon as the best cars she ever had. My cousin drove it after her for years until it rusted away in the mountains of West Virginia... and it was new to him at like 15 years old with 300,000 miles.
Feels like that era when Toyota just overbuilt everything and the Sequoia quietly ran forever, so it makes sense it left that kind of mark. The current Sequoia is hybrid only and pretty pricey in places like the UAE, which makes me miss how simple the old V8 trucks were, do you think that simplicity is why they aged so well?
Not sure what you are smoking but the engine was NOT better. Less power, less torque, more complex, and same efficiency to top it off. GM proves again and again that for mainstream cars a pushrod OHV high displacement works better than a DOHC lower displacement. Power, mpg, etc is always about the same but the cost to build and fix is not.
I'll take a 5.3L LS in a heartbeat. Well at least the years without the AFM tech. I don't see how Toyotas engine is better in this comparison...
> and arguably 4wd setup
This was why they hated it in the first place in the test.
Also I love the Sequoia interior too very much but that alone along with a 4WD system gimped to hell with overly aggressive VSC isn’t enough to place it above GMT800 offerings.
I would place it above the Yukon XL IMO though. Purely because I find the Yukon XL, Suburban, and Escalade Extended ugly long.
It is the only full time 4wd vehicle with an old school limited slip center diff. No clutch packs to wear out or computers involved sending power to the front wheels when they feel like it or after you are already slipping.
Most of their complaints could have been specific to their surface or tire related. I never had any issues with ours in the outer banks on loose sand or in the snow so who knows.
Not a truck guy but I have to respect the hell out of the GMT800 platform.
GM has made a lot of garbage but once in a while they have an absolute mic drop moment like these were. Also thinking of the Alpha platform and the new EV portfolio.
GMT800 really was one of those lightning in a bottle runs. Stuff like the new Lobo looks slick, but from what I’ve seen those street focused trims can be a bit of a gamble long term compared to the boring workhorse setups, what do you think?
GM’s failings as a company are almost entirely post engineering and has been for decades. Great platforms, great engines, bean counters get involved and material quality suffers - so interiors are filled with cheap plastics, component quality is reduced, etc.
> Toyota seems to have learned its lesson in the minivan wars: Don't innovate (the Previa)—imitate (the Sienna), because its first stab at a big ute flatters the sales champ (the Chevy Tahoe) with a good bit of imitation.
Guess they forgot about the Land Cruiser having existed for 50 years by this point
I catch myself missing my 05 Denali xl often. Blown air struts and full time 4wd with no low range were things that led me to sell it for a bit of profit. Thanks covid. I've had my fun beating on an Xterra off-road but I'm ready to pay dumb money for a clean suburban 2500.
Had a 2003 Suburban LT with AutoRide back in the day, my God that thing was comfortable. Best road-trip car ever. I heard the AutoRide system was insanely expensive to repair tho
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