yeah the Civic Hatch got rid of the Manual 2022 Sport Touring Manual w/ the 1.5T 180hp (23'tNOW it's just a 2.0 NA or the 2.0 NA + Hybrid power), GTI is too pricey at 35K for the SE Mid Trim (7DSG only no more Manual), Corolla Hatch has a CVT/ eCVT (at least you can still shift your gears and there IS shift shock- IK cuz I've been in my friend's 24' Corolla SE Hatch and he uses the Paddle Shifters). Subar Impreza Hatch with its Lineartronic CVT it feels like a LITE-DCT w/ shift shock.
Same here. Kia seems to be leaning into efficient small stuff lately, even talking hybrids on the next Seltos, so maybe that mindset helps keep a hatch like the K4 alive here. Think buyers will show up this time?
Totally agree - would have been nice to see Nissan grab some of the fun Renault hatchbacks for the US, but I'm not sure that partnership would allow it at this point.
Feels like Kia is leaning hard into hybrids and efficiency lately, so manuals seem to be fading even on fun looking stuff like the K4, which is a bummer. Would you take a really good hybrid setup if it meant giving up the stick?
Sadly, after being on the inside, they would never allow that. Too many political dynamics between the two companies and their market positioning. Hyundai could never be seen as "little brother" to Kia.
Is there a reason Hyundai in particular is the "bigger" brand here? Admittedly not super familiar with the dynamics between the two brands other than them being super closely related.
Also makes me wonder how cases like the Stinger happened where Kia had a flagship with no Hyundai counterpart, unless the Genesis (model, not make) was seen as the counterpart there.
As Hyundai is quick to remind everyone, the group is the "Hyundai Motor Group", and it was Hyundai who acquired Kia.
The Stinger came out, but Genesis also got a similar car, but with much nicer features. When the brands needed additional V6 capacity (ironically for the Carnival as one example), they kept the G70 and axed the Stinger. Shows which brand was given preferential treatment.
I have no need for a Stinger, and no place for one, but I always think about those cars. I had a couple as demos. I think they are criminally underrated cars still. Just effortless power, comfortable, plenty of space, sporty enough; just great. They feel more special than they should. A shame more weren't sold.
Thanks, that clears things up a decent bit. I doubt you have any insight here but would you happen to know then why there are cases like the Kia K4 where Kia is releasing a hatchback in the US (after the Forte hatch was killed due to poor sales) but then Hyundai doesn't sell the i30 here like they have in the past? Is this maybe a inter-generational thing where the next Elantra would add in whatever the K4 has that the current gen is missing?
It has to do with where the car is built, the capacity, and where that production goes. For the U.S., the K4 is built in Mexico and also builds cars for the North and South American markets. Some of those markets are big into hatchbacks, so they then need to work the economics out about how many are needed to be built, and where that production can go.
The Elantra is built at the HMMG plant in Alabama for the US market, and the line is more limited as other markets get some or all production from Korea. The i30 is not only built in the Czech Republic, but used to be built in Mexico along with the Kia Rio. Once those were killed off for the US, they adjusted those factories.
The K5 was built in Georgia for select trims (non SX turbo) before all production was moved back to Korea to make room for other models, with more of a US/North America focus. Telluride is built in Georgia while the Palisade is built in Korea. Just a lot of various factors that go into each line, the markets, and what capacity is there.
Hyundai motor group is Hyundai, Kia and Genesis. So Hyundai is the parent company with Kia and Hyundai selling vehicles for the working people, while Genesis is their luxury car brand.
The EVs can get a bit messy as the investment costs right now are so high, they are looking for ways to spread that cost around. They also don't look at shared powertrains being the end all be all on competing car lines. The view between what the GT product as Kia offers vs what the N brand is at Hyundai are different. N is more a performance brand, where as GT is simply a top trim. Suspension decisions between the two were very different based on those perspectives as well.
With the K4, they wouldn't simply re-skin an Elantra N and try to sell it. I think that cart would be AMAZING, but that's just not their place. Not sure if this made sense what I was trying to convey.
YUP It'd be like Honda/Acura - Honda get sthe Si Sedan While Acura gets the Integra Liftback. (Both the same powertrain as the Si ALTHOUGH the Shifter in the Teggy is a bit MORE Smooth feeling)
Folks are saying how Hyundai would never allow this, but they abandoned the Hatch/Wagon Segment in favor of focusing on CUV's. They killed the Elantra GT stateside in favor of the Kona and long ago stopped offering wagon versions of Sedans in favor of the Tucson and Santa Fe. If they don't want Kia to have nice things, then bring back Hyundai Hatches and Wagons.
Otherwise, I don't see why they wouldn't let Kia do what they want if the K4 Hatch (still looks wagonish to me, and that's a good thing) sells well.
> it would be the perfect thing to replace my car with in a few years
The N-line is already 15 horse power too short, I couldn't imagine replacing it with something even slower.
0-60 in 6.4 is fine for me in the N-Line, and I’m sure a K4 with the same engine and a stick wouldn’t be that much slower. Acceleration isn’t my top priority personally
> 0-60 in 6.4
This isn't a real world number, the stock N-line is much more realistically a 7 second 0-60 in a manual and the '26 K4 Hatch has 11 less horsepower while weighing 200lbs more.
I mean if you're happy with your current acceleration then by all means I'm not going to argue what you find acceptable, but again I couldn't imagine moving to an even slower car.
It’s what car and driver tested, so objectively that’s what it is. If you want to argue real world conditions, make sure you apply those conditions to the cars you are comparing it against as well. It’s about half a second quicker than a Civic Si, again not something that particularly matters to me, but just as a point of comparison.
Assuming you rule the hybrid out on the Honda to be even on powertrains, both the Civic and Corolla hatchbacks are actually cheaper than that by a decent margin.
Personal preference, to be sure, but that has nothing to do with price like we're talking about here. Throw resale into the picture, and they're even cheaper in terms of total ownership cost.
It doesn't have to be "soon after" in order for the resale value to still play an important part. Honda and Toyota historically have higher resale value than the Korean brands, whether you're talking just a few years after or something long term like 10-12 years.
The only way to get a Civic hatchback without the hybrid powertrain is to get the Sport hatchback trim. And that starts at $29,100...or $1200 more than the sedan equivalent. But what's really weird, is that the cheapest Corolla hatchback, the SE, is actually $1000 *cheaper* than the equivalent sedan.
im pretty sure thats because the corolla hatch is based on an older corolla, while the corolla that is on sale right now is actually a newer generation.
Yeah, I'm just comparing hatches to hatches. Like you said, the Sport is the only way to line the Civic up against the Kia, since there's no K4 hybrid (yet). The Corolla actually undercuts the price estimate for the K4 here even in XSE trim (top trim), but that's kind of expected - Toyota has fully amortized the cost of the E210 platform and can afford to keep it cheaper than it's rivals.
Yeah Kia’s design run lately has been kind of impressive, this one feels clean without trying too hard. I’m curious if you’d still pick the hatch over something like the upcoming Seltos hybrid since that one seems aimed more at everyday efficiency.
Handsome car. Honestly the one real polarizing part of the K4 is that weird C pillar design an how it flows into the rear of the car. I personally hate the K4 from the C pillar back. But the hatchback fixes it.
I think the hatch cleans up the proportions a lot, the roofline makes the back end feel way less awkward. Kia also seems to be leaning more into smart packaging and efficiency lately like what they are doing with the next Seltos, so do you think they are finally getting their rear designs sorted?
I really like the potential of this car. Very handsome hatchback. If it sells well, it's a no brainer for Hyundai to offer the N model in a few years.
I've never owned a Hyundai. Is the turbo powertrain in this model proven and reliable?
From what I’ve seen Kia tends to stick with familiar turbo fours across models, like the one they’re rolling into the next Seltos, and those setups seem pretty conservatively tuned which helps long term. Do you usually keep cars a long time or swap every few years?
I haven't owned one either, but from what I hear, the 1.6T seems to be pretty good. Just be mindful that it is DI-only, unfortunately, so it requires carbon clean outs from time to time.
There isn't an OEM that i want to see succeed more than KIA. From where they started (literally buy one get one free) to here is something that in the auto industry will be studied.
Yes there are better cars, but there isn't a modern day success story even close to what kia has managed to muster. I love them for that alone. It's like a indie dev in gaming that made a really good game and continues to update it. I will always love a company that you can just tell actually listens to the consumer.
It does feel like a real arc, especially now that even stuff like the upcoming Seltos leans into hybrid efficiency instead of just flashy design. Makes me wonder if people will finally start giving them long term credit on resale and reliability.
They need to really work on dealerships.
Hyundai for example feels like a luxury car dealer compared to KIA.
KIA is still stuck in the 2000s.
I am in major metro area and visited several Kia dealers. All had some odd things happening and nonsense.
Nope. I get Hyundai/Kia dealerships are mad, but Toyota has no one stopping them. Those workers KNOW Toyota is in demand and they'll put every add-on onto the car, because if you don't buy it, someone else will. Everyone wants a RAV4 or Prius PHEV or Sienna Hybrid or whatever
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Honestly they are doing it right by focusing on everything but the dealerships. It is insane amounts of money to upgrade a dealership and that money is much better spent on literally anything else with the cheapest cars in the American market.
Kia doesn't offer nearly the same incentives as say a luxury car brand does or even a brand like GM and i don't think they should all it would do is raise the prices on the cars while we get what, a slightly nicer dealership to go to once every few years.
So in essence, its nice to be in, good set of features for its price, and if you care more about refinement and not about how fast it goes, its a very solid car.
I understand why they compared it to an entry level German.
Yeah that tracks, Kia seems to be leaning into quiet, well specced daily drivers lately, and even the upcoming Seltos hybrid focus on efficiency over punch kind of fits that vibe. Would you take that tradeoff if it means lower running costs and a calmer drive?
I don't really understand the point of comparing the feel to a decades old audi when its not really bygone,I think most will agree the current a3 is a very competent car, one of the best in Audi's current lineup, & still what it is what it was to the gti however many years ago
In slight fairness it seems like C&D hasn't actually tested one in quite some time so they don't have a reference, & I think its fair to say audi has somewhat lost their way on the a4+ offerings, but everyone seems very positive on the refreshed a3 & the upcoming q3
I think the Audi comparison is more about the vibe than a direct benchmark, especially since the A3 has stayed pretty sharp. Kia also seems to be chasing a more grown up feel lately with stuff like better efficiency and longer warranty focus across the lineup, which might explain the angle even if it feels a bit forced.
While calling it a bygone era isn't necessarily true, I think it was simply more of a reference to the fact that the A3 of yesteryear was a hatchback, whereas now, it isn't. This only applies to the U.S. of course, as the 2nd gen A3 was our 1st gen A3, as we only got the 5-door hatchback "Sportback" body.
I’m in the market for a hatch but I don’t see myself picking this over the Civic Hybrid Hatch Sports Touring. It looks like the top trim of the K4 is about the same price as that Civic.
29k fully loaded (K4 hatch) vs 34k fully loaded (civic hybrid hatch sport touring), pretty big difference in price.
But I agree top trims not competitive, bottom tier trims may do well (24k for hatch only other competitor is the hyundai venue?)
I wish Hyundai group would offer more than their gutless 2.0 and 1.6T in their smaller cars but if I'm forced to get a new car before an electric Veloster arrives, this will be on my list!
Oh absolutely, I liked it in my Veloster Turbo. The power to weight ratio worked in a car that size, I just wish that the trim I had came with a manual.
It's only illegal if you get caught!
Seriously, I wonder if any US customs officials would even notice if a Kia wagon was roaming the streets of Anytown, USA.
It would be at the top of my list if I didn’t pull the trigger on my car last year. The K4 hatchback had already been announced and I really liked the styling, but figured it wouldn’t come with a stick in the US.
I think this car is very attractive, and I'd honestly consider it, but two things hold me back -- first is I've never heard a positive story about dealing with Kia Dealerships, and second is I'd still be worried about Kia Bois lurking. Not that they'd be able to steal it, but just them fucking the car up trying to steal it.
> I've never heard a positive story about dealing with Kia Dealerships
If it helps, I have nothing bad to say about the dealership where I got my car. Very standard dealership experience when buying it.
Can't say anything bad about the service department either. Took it in once for a software update recall and a tire rotation and everything was fine. If I had a complaint, it's that the rotation was expensive, but I was paying for the convenience of getting everything done in one go.
> I'd still be worried about Kia Bois lurking.
This is still a worry of mine. I don't expect the Kia Boys to know my car is an EV and can't be stolen by turning an ignition with the USB cable. Thankfully, no one's tried to break into my car. I do wonder if it's contributing to my high insurance costs compared to the Model 3 it replaced.
>Can't say anything bad about the service department either. Took it in once for a software update recall and a tire rotation and everything was fine.
I wouldn't base your review of the service department on something that basic. Hopefully you never need anything major, but that's really when things change (not just at the Hyundai and Kia dealers).
I don't understand. So they are comparing a 2026 Kia with a 1.6t making 155 whp in FWD only, to a 25 year old first gen Audi A3? This doesn't make sense to me.
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