Sales volume. With fleet emissions standards, it's increasingly difficult to justify putting a big thirsty V8 in a car that sells in high volumes. The big, desirable engines are being confined to the expensive, low volume halo models as a selling point.
There's a reason why the Ferrari 296 has a 2.9L V6 in it - the first V6 since the Dino, when the predecessors to that car all the way back to the F308 have had V8s.
I wouldn’t necessarily call the (old) C63 with its 4 liter V8 a high volume car. At least not in the traditional sense. Sure, it’s all relative. And more than likely the C63 outsells the AMG GT, but I wouldn’t call the C63 high volume car.
MB can call it whatever they want, but no way the C63 is a high volume car. Like I said, I don’t doubt that it outsells the AMG GT, and it’s all relative. But it’s not a high volume car in the traditional sense. The C-Class as a whole sells about 30,000 units per year in the states. Of that, how many are C63’s? 2000? 4000? Whatever it is, it’s not a high number.
That was not confirmed, [and there was a conflicting report that came out a few days ago that said the V8 return news was false](https://www.motor1.com/news/681625/amg-denies-v8-return-c63-e63-rumor/).
They would have kept the V8 going in the C63 if they could, it would have been easy for them to re-use the engine from the previous gen. Mercedes were forced to change something because their fleet emissions were not looking good and EU emissions regulations are tightening with Euro 7 coming in 2025.
I know it wasn't confirmed, as it never said so in the article, but C&D isn't the type of publication to spout false info like a lot of other "news" outlets. I wouldn't be surprised at all if MB eventually *does* go back to the V8, especially after getting a ton of negative press with the 4 popper.
That wasn't false info, it was correct for its time. The pandemic put a big dent in carmaker's plans across the board when it came to new vehicles, especially ones that were still in the early stages. If the pandemic never happened, the LQ would've more than likely come out for 2022. Lexus' roadmap more than likely has changed since that article was written, and it's possible they're no longer going to build an LS sedan-powered SUV flagship. They're leaning heavier into electric powered vehicles now, and they do have an [EV SUV concept that's bigger than the RZ](https://www.lexus.com/concept/electrified-future), although it doesn't look to be a flagship like the LQ is/was supposed to be.
That article even says:
>"This story originally appeared in the May 2020 issue of Car and Driver as part of our 25 Cars Worth Waiting For package. Our sneak preview of the most exciting cars coming in the next few years draws on knowledge from leaked product-development plans, spy photos, and loose-lipped insiders mixed in with information that has already been officially released. **The reporting for this story was completed in February and early March, before the auto industry began feeling major effects of the coronavirus pandemic. As many automakers are now delaying or pausing development programs, the debut and on-sale dates reported here may change**."
That still doesn't address their problem of the brand's poor fleet emissions. I doubt they got rid of their well regarded V8 C63 on a whim. They would have carried it over on all their 63 models if the upcoming EU fleet emissions regulations were not as strict.
Yes the V8 Mustang is sold in Europe along with the 4cyl turbo. Best selling sports car in EU.
Even so, MB coulda kept the North America C63 with a V8 instead of optimizing packaging for a 4 cyl, which ended up being super heavy.
A lot of people are assuming that because it shares a platform with the SL, it won’t be performant. I wouldn’t bet on that. It’s very possible they designed the platform for performance and the SL is a luxury GT version of it. Also, Mercedes has the technical know-how to build a performance coupe. The prior AMG GTs are prime evidence of that.
Anyway I’m hugely impressed. I love the new design shift. The interior looks fantastic as well. And the specs are extremely promising- especially what they’re saying about the engine and suspension. Watching autegefuhl’s video it almost makes it seem like a modern higher end GT-R, but made by AMG. I’m in love.
> It’s very possible Mercedes designed the platform for performance and the SL is a luxury GT version of it.
Indeed. Here's what Car and Driver said about the SL63 during [Lightning Lap](https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a42387134/2022-mercedes-amg-sl63-lightning-lap-2023/):
> We can't pretend to know the SL demographic better than its maker, but does the official convertible of South Florida really need that much capability?
Thanks for posting that link. I had no idea the new SL is up there with GT-Rs and 991 Turbos around VIR. Thats extremely impressive, and confirms my thinking. This new GT is going to be incredibly fast. And when you consider the amenities it has, it’s going to be an awesome machine. I’m really really loving it. I wonder what the pricing will be.
Carwow did an [interview](https://youtube.com/watch?v=U4appF8eS5g&feature=share9) with the product manager. Pricing should be similar to the SL. They haven't said how many units they'll make, but it'll be available at the end of the year.
What some people might have missed is that the new SL platform was developed by AMG in Affalterbach. That's why it's sold under the Mercedes-AMG moniker for all variants rather than Mercedes-Benz. The new SL is a much more serious sports car than previous iterations, with a chassis that's 40-50% stiffer than that of the old AMG GT Roadster. The new GT with its fixed roof should be stiffer still. So, the new GT is moving a bit towards the grand-tourer part of the sports car spectrum, as the customers requested, but it's still going to be a serious sports car.
\> 4300lbs, around 700lbs heavier than its RWD-only predecessor.
It's a shame they water it down for the sake of sharing a platform with the R232 SL. It looses its bespoke front-midengine platform and therefore the transaxle layout, gets the worse 9 speed transmission (in context of performance car purposes), is significantly heavier and AWD only (for now?).
I'm a fan of the C190, proper 911 competitor with great performance and driving dynamics to back up Mercedes' claim to build a 911 fighter across all AMG GT iterations. If you deliberately place your product as a direct competitor to the 911, it should also achieve comparable driving dynamics - the C190 did that across all variants. I have serious doubts about the new one.
Cars like the AMG GT, 911, Vantage, etc. have always crossed the line between Gran Turismo and sports car, the new AMG GT seems to be much more Gran Turismo than the C190.
Its incredible how much weight MBgains in its last models.
How can a 2 seater sportscar weigh more than 2 tonnes??
And where did the extra 300+kg go?????? I really dont get it
Its the anti-Lotus :D
Complexity then add weight
I still dont understand where all the weight goes. The new C63 is too heavy but it also has a battery, e motors etc.
So where are the 300kg? Sound dampening? Rigidity? Safety regulations?
The same way BMW was able to pump up the weight in the M2 (or the general small RWD BMW coupe). It used to be that an E82 (depending on trims from 125i to the 128i to the 135i) weighed maybe 3050-3300~ish pounds, ~3200 for the 1M. While that might not be initially light, the E82 was extremely light for a coupe on a shortened version of its sedan platform stablemate, the e90. Now jump all the way to the current G42 chassis, and even the M240i weighs 3,900 lbs. All that through a ton of refinement and sound deadening among other tech baked into the platform.
The old AMG GTR in that Green Hell Magno paint is a goal car of mine. Definitely a worthy rival to the 911 even if reviewers say its not quite as razor sharp
With the addition of a 2+2 layout they really try to tackle the 911 but all the changes position it much more as a BMW M8 rival than a 911 rival, which I think is a shame.
All fundamental technical changes (loss of front-mid engine platform and transaxle, gearbox,...) are purely cost-saving measures with zero gain in driving dynamics or performance.
>... even if reviewers say its not quite as razor sharp
The C190 GT R is a fantastic car. I know some say that it's not quite as sharp but in terms of driving dynamics, it has more in common with a GT3 as one might think.
Therefore, a comparison aka the GT3 is the precision tool while the GT R is the sledgehammer is not really appropriate if you ask me.
Agree with what you’ve said on this new 2+2 car. Admittedly I dont have access to this level of car, so I’ll need to wait for reviewers to see how it will shape up but from the onset it seems less focused than the outgoing car which you summed up best as a shame
Glad to hear your praise of the GTR. In the US and in Canada, 911 GT3 prices have really ballooned but AMG GTR prices are actually a decent amount lower now so its an interesting alternative if I am ever able to purchase a car of this caliber. I also think its stunning in the matte green paint and who doesnt love a grumbly V8
>In the US and in Canada, 911 GT3 prices have really ballooned but AMG GTR prices are actually a decent amount lower
Not just in North America. Here in Germany, GT Rs are currently in very attractive price regions too. There are several for under €150k on the market, making them around €20k to €40k cheaper than a contemporary PDK 991.2 GT3. At this price point they offer fantastic value for money.
My color choice would probably be China Blue.
Have you ever moved a base AMG GT over a track?
Its more capable than most mass-produced "sportscars" around, easily competing with GT3s and their likes
Unfortunately no, I’d love to tho!
From the outside it looks like it’s heavier than the tyres would’ve liked and it dips quite hard under braking.
And it’s really nice on the road, it’s giving me those “It’s a GT you can use on track but it really doesn’t want to”-vibes.
Such a heavy car, 2 tonnes. 2+2 makes sense in a car like the 911 where you a tiny boot, but here you get a decent sized boot, so what's the point of making the car longer to a pair of kids or some extra bags. I guess all of these changes were just an after thought because it's on the SL platform.
I think the car is stunning, but I am genuinely curious about the product planners' approach. I could by mistaken but I don't believe the M8 is doing particularly well which is what this new iteration seems to be chasing.
Personally, the styling is not speaking to me the way the C190 gen does, much more conservative looking. And the weight is... rough. I'm sure they'll engineer around it and make the car plenty fast, but man. It already cooks through brakes and tires on track at 3600lbs.
> It's hard not to get excited for a hypothetical new Black Series, and imagine it going head-to-head with the likes of the 2025 Ford Mustang GTD. But that's a showdown for another day.
i think the car reviewers have lost their minds after fords announcement. the gtd was a mockup,,, they didnt have an interior and it didnt startup/drive onto the stage. will it? sure. but it is what maybe a year or two before first production delivery? meanwhile mercedes are showing a preproduction gt car that hasnt delivered 1 unit yet let alone starting a black series program. but moron reviewer is jerking it to cars that do not exist and in the case of mercedes is a crystal ball car. /facepalm
I miss the long hood of its predecessor. Last gen was an elegant, expensive looking car. This looks like a “sporty” competitor to a z4 or f type. Doesn’t look bad at all, still a good looking car but does not look to be the same caliber as it once was.
[The non 2+2 configuration looks like it has Corvette-rivaling storage.](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/2024-mercedes-amg-gt-coupe-interior-102-64da40b183d60.jpg?crop=1xw:1xh;center,top&resize=980:*)
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