TheaterFire

Albania🇦🇱 (since 1912)and north macedonia🇲🇰 are only countries that recognise aromanian as a national minority granting tham right for education,language etc.despite greece🇬🇷having bigfest aromanian population they dont recognise as national minority?what do you think they deserv recognition?

Posted by Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 359 comments

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359 Comments

RemoteMeasurement10_@reddit

There are Vlachs, 22 of them in Croatia, AND STILL they are a national minority
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Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

Croatia best country for minorities. World known fact
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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

And albania why you dont mentioned it 🤣🤣🤣 we recognise 9 minorities,grant them schools,academic research everything.they want
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Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

Man I bet people are queuing to migrate to Albania no?
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SoulofDeadweeler@reddit

Comparing the actually in fact truthfully clean and still meticiously organized Tirana to your still wretchedly pathetic shithole of Athens full of homeless mentally-destroyed Gypsies such as you and drug addicts where the sewers smell like shit and literally Rhomioi gyppos are actually in fact **hyperemotionally illegalo-parking everywhere on pavements and sidewalks too literally reflecting your severely mentally illnesses I definitely see people queing to migrate to Albania as a still logically potential possibility.**
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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

It doesn matter doess croatia had que to go there in 1994,1998,2000 etc it matter that we respect people,minorities,we are tolerant,we dont have any fear.we build bridges with people.we protect their traditions,culture officially. Unlike greece. So i see you hate for albania bit you will used to it
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Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

I would appreciate if you would recognize the same only for the sake of the 1000s of Albanians making Greece their home and I am referingto the large majority of good people out there not the tiny minority of rapists and killers in prisons
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RemoteMeasurement10_@reddit

No, seriously, we have like 20 official minorities
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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Yes its about tolerance,culture thing,respect,tradition not big deal,yes i know in italy in molise region have recognise croatian national minority and burgerland,austriai think.
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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Yes its about tolerance,culture thing,respect,tradition not big deal,yes i know in italy in molise region have recognise croatian national minority and burgerland i think.
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8NkB8@reddit

If Greece gained independence later, perhaps they would be. At the time though, there were prominent Aromanian figures who were proponents of Greek independence and statehood, such as Kolettis, Zappas and others. In World War II, there were attempts to create an Aromanian separatist state. This had little support amongst the Vlachs, who in any case were not as numerous as these images would suggest.
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TastyRancidLemons@reddit

The Treaty of Bucharest (1913) included a formal agreement between Greece and Romania that allowed these "Kutzovlach" schools to continue operating with Romanian subsidies. Communist Causescu regime shut them down. Ask the Vlachs of Greece, why did they not demand the government to reopen them? After all, many prominent Greek politicians were Vlachs in origin. They could open these schools again in a single day if they wished.
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saebica7@reddit

Aromanians in Greece, because they were tought the Romanians made a huge propaganda(it's true) and the Aromanians who left Greece and signed 7 times to leave the Greek citizenship to go to Constanța with the Iashi ship in 1920, now consider Romanian Aromanians traitors. In Romania, we are considered a Romanian dialect, which linguistically is false and we fight against it. Sadly, Romania even though we sued the state officially many times, it ignores us. Romania used the Ottoman empire to get Aromanians closer to Romania and Greeks accepted because they wanted to get rid of us as we had started being vocal. 30k Aromanian families left Greece in 1920 as Macedonian colonists and they received Romanian citizenship after 7 years. They were robbed by the Romanian communists and then they chose the Fascists in 1930. We are slowly disappearing.
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chipsydust@reddit

Linguistically is false. How come? Both are latin languages that managed to survive in a slavic world. One developed on the north of Danube and the other developed in the south.
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saebica7@reddit

What is false? I did not understand. The Aromanian language evolved after the Romanisation of the Thracian tribes in the Balkan Peninsula, and probably the other tribes. Greeks have never been Romanised and Getae and Dacians never left the lands to interfeere with the Thracians
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Really_gay_pineapple@reddit

Ive never heard anyone bere consider Aromanian a dialect of Romanian, idk what youre talking about? People agree that Aromanian is a language that is related to Romanian as part of the Eastern Romance group.
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eferalgan@reddit

Actually that’s the position of the Romanian National Academy. Aromanian is similar to Romanian, just like the Sicilian and Napoletan is to Italian
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Lothronion@reddit

>If Greece gained independence later, perhaps they would be. This assumes that there was an upwards trend for expansion in the Aromanian Identity, which was interrupted and then suppressed by the Greek State (or the Ottomans in European Turkey, as a reaction to losing Southern Greece). I dont think there is any evidence pointing towards that. In fact, given how once Thessaly was known as Greater Vlachia (Greater Wallachia / Vlach-land) and this name had faded into oblivion by the early 19th century AD suggests the opposite. >In World War II, there were attempts to create an Aromanian separatist state. This had little support amongst the Vlachs, who in any case were not as numerous as these images would suggest. It is noteworthy that these attempts were not internal ones, out of the Vlach Greeks against non-Vlach Greeks, but instead externally imposed by Italy. This is because Italy originally sought to completely annex most of Greece (intending to leave Macedonia and Thrace to Bulgaria), as part of their effort to prevent further spread of German influence in the Balkans, which they regarded as part of the Mediterranean sphere, so under their own agreed "jurisdiction" with the Germans, where they were supposed to only focus in Continental Europe. After their failure to conquer Greece by themselves in 1940-early 1941, and Germany's intervention, the Germans decided to just let the Greek State continue as a sovereign entity, albeit by removing the Pro-British Pro-Allied flank of the 4-August-Regime, and install a Pro-Axis government using the Pro-German faction within it, and thus reverting the Greco-Italian border in the Greco-Albanian frontier. Briefly they had attempted to hold onto and annex Epirus, and then just North Epirus, but these were also denied, so they chose to try to create the "Roman Legion" out of a minority of separatist Vlach Greeks, in order to establish the "Pindus Principality", which they aimed to render into a protectorate, through which they would spread Italian influence throughout Greece (despite how difficult that was, due to lack of Italians and Italophones in Greece, and their racism towards those there, as "decadent oriental Levantines").
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Mminas@reddit

If you walk up to Greek Vlach and tell them they're a minority they will punch you in the face. I'm not saying that's how it should be, but that's just how it is.
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eferalgan@reddit

That doesn’t make it right
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kontinos1@reddit

What is not right? That they identify themselves as greek vlachs?
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eferalgan@reddit

They should be considered as a minority by the Greek government in order to preserve the language and culture
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Lothronion@reddit

Their own cultural associations vehemently deny any status of minority. If the Vlach Greeks do not want to be considered as a "Vlach minority", as a majority (because exceptions always exist), why should they be imposed that quality? And they deny it while being proud of both their Greekness and their Vlachness. It is just that the latter is for them more like a "tribal" sentiment. Such do exist in other frameworks in Greece; for example I share a Dorian sentiment, since I come from Doris of Phocis, in Central Central Greece, which is also shared by other localistic identities, like those in the Mani Peninsula, the Laconian Plain, Kynouria and the Malean Peninsula. So imagine going to those Greeks, even with fully developed cultural associations and even specific scientific societies (e.g. the Society of Laconian Studies, the Society of Tsakonian Studies) and telling them how they are now a "Dorian minority".
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eferalgan@reddit

I heard the story with the head of the Aromanians association which was on the payroll of the Greek government and didn’t want to lose that money stream They speak la Latin based language- Aromanian, which is a language close to Romanian, they have their own culture and traditions - this should be preserved not assimilated by the Greeks
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

1.Vlachs should be allowed to preserve their own language and culture(too late now) 2.Vlachs are not related to Romanians nor Dacians ,they are autochthonous in their lands and have literally 0 connection to Romanians beside the fact they speak a Vulgan Latin derived language 3.If you learn more about the Greek war of Independence,you will see that 90% of their heroes is Arvanite and Vlach and they needed to create a nation identity and they all started identifying as Greek and revived Greek culture and identity.
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eferalgan@reddit

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. You probably don’t even know that you are descendent from the Ilirians, or if you do, you have no idea who Ilirians were. Anyway, long story short, 2000 years ago, before the Romans came, in the are of what we are calling now Balkans there were basically 3 large ethnic groups: Thracians, Greeks and Ilirians. Within the Thracian group there were subcategories (think of them as cousins): Dacians, Getae, Carps, Costoboci, Bessii, etc All of them were speaking the same language tho. It was basically the same people spread across a vast land. When the Roman Empire came and conquered the territory, the language became romanized and they were speaking mostly Vulgar Latin with some Thracians elements (but the same language). In the last 2000 years, that same language had evolved a little different because of the influences each language had (Romanian had French, Slavonic, Turkish, etc - Aromanian had Greek, Albanian, Turkish, Slavic). Just like Romanian and Italian that developed separately. 1800 years ago both people were speaking Vulgr Latin, now that language had evolved into today’s Romanian and Italian.
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

I have done my research,when did I mention Illyrians??if you answer ,I will school you about it😎
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eferalgan@reddit

What?
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Look at my comment and then at yours,maybe you were trying to answer someone else
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eferalgan@reddit

You didn’t, I did because you are an Albanian. I was using Ilirians in connection to you. I have answered your comment
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Im confused af😂😂Im partly vlach
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eferalgan@reddit

I saw you commenting in Albanian, I assumed you are Albanian. If you are Vlach, it means that you belong to the Romanian family group
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Nooooo😂😂who says that ,you? There is literally 0 connection between Vlachs and Romanians,look at genetics Albanians ,Vlachs ,mainland Greeks are completely indistinguishable from each other. Romanian and Aromanian are not mutually intelligible ,Vlachs are just autochthonous people of that region that refused to get delatinize exactly as Romanians refused to.
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eferalgan@reddit

Genetic tests have 0 zero value, relevance or serves as proof. They only show that you are somehow related with your neighbor
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanian_language Academics of tiktok maybe 😂😂
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eferalgan@reddit

No, by the Romanian National Academy
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

If so,they are lying because any linguists classifies Aromanian as a Language !!!!check it and stop being uneducated on the topic and genetics is way more important and is not only related to your neighbours but also the dna found in ancient sites
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eferalgan@reddit

It is a language in the larger sense of the word, but technical, is a dialect of Romanian language family
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

😂😂😂bla bla bla instead of “ I was wrong and I will educate myself”
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eferalgan@reddit

https://acad.ro/institutia/acte/media/puncte_vedere/2020.03.20_Declaratie%20limba%20romana_Basarabia.pdf You can use AI for translation. Can you give sources to back your claims?
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

I just sent the wikipedia link ,what is wrong with you?
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eferalgan@reddit

Sorry Wikipedia is not a scientific source. I have a Wikipedia account and I can edit any article I want, the way I want to Here is the translation in English, in case you can’t read Romanian: "For more than two centuries, the Romanian language has been systematically studied by Romanian and foreign linguists, who have established its exact status and role. Romanian is the easternmost Romance language, comprising four dialects and several sub-dialects (regional accents). The dialects of the Romanian language are Daco-Romanian, Aromanian (Macedo-Romanian), Megleno-Romanian, and Istro-Romanian. The foundation of the Romanian language is the Daco-Romanian dialect, the only one spoken north of the Danube, which is considered by the general public to be the Romanian language proper."
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

https://www.academia.edu/Documents/in/Aromanian_language/MostDownloaded The papers on Wikipedia
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eferalgan@reddit

Even if is saying Academy.edu is only a business, not an academic source
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

😂😂😂😂 at this point is getting ridicolous,the whole world is wrong beside my government 😂😂
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eferalgan@reddit

Romanian Academy is an independent institution, not subordinated or even financed by the government
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Just stop being ridicolous
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eferalgan@reddit

Sure, me is the one being ridiculous. You claim that Aromanians who are speaking “a language” extremely close to Romanian are in reality Greeks. That makes a lot of sense. And again, me is the one who is being ridiculous
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

I never claimed they are Greeks ,you are blatantly lying now!!!they called themselves Vlach or Armanji and that is because of the language,Spanish is a also close to Italian but that does not make Spaniards Italians so go and educate yourseld and stop being ignorant
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eferalgan@reddit

No, you said that Vlachs are starting to identify as Greeks and then you said that you are a Vlach yourself, hence you agree with it. Is the same thing told in a different way. Regarding the Spanish language, is a wrong example, because is not the same situation. You might think of Sicilian or Napolitan being close to Italian and yes, they are Italians too. Spanish has also its own like Catalan and so on. This is the right comparison By the way, Vlach or Valach or Blach was the name given to Romanians by the Germans. That’s why in Medieval times, Tara Românească was called Wallachia. How can they be called Vlachs and Aromanians and yet you claim they don’t have anything to do with Romania
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

I said Im partly Vlach and yes Vlachs identifies as Greeks and Albanians not Romanians ,if they are form Greece they are Greek Vlachs ,if from Albania are Albanian Vlachs . No your example is wrong because they all share a boarder ,Vlachs and Romanians too far away from each ofher exactly like Italian and Spanish or Italian and French. The Romans referred to any latin speaking in the balkans as vlach but they never meant they were related. You are clearly uneducated on the topic and need to study more or you can stay ignorant and believe in your nationalistic propaganda
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eferalgan@reddit

Of course, when you lose the arguments debate, you can only resort to rudeness. Have a nice day!
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Maybe you are part if the Romani/Gipsy community ,that js why you refuse to accept it,shame on you!
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eferalgan@reddit

Hahahaha…I am a Gypsy now! But of course! 🤣
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

If you get to decide what am I ,why can’t I decide what you are? If I were you ,I would write a petition to the government,saying to recognise vlach as minority,not to behave like Greece!!
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eferalgan@reddit

Vlach = Blach = Valah = Valahia Valahia = Țara Românească If only with this you will walk away from this conversation, will be still considered a progress!
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Vlach x Romanian not = ,you can also weite German=Romanian but it would bot be true exaclty as for vlachs,completely distinct ,culturally and genetically!!!you can keep lying to yourself but that view is not shared from the mainstream.
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eferalgan@reddit

What are you talking about? Of course is a mainstream view. Nobody considers Vlachs different from Romanians, that would be crazy
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

😂😂😂just google it ,you must have some issues ,literally everyone does not connect them with romanians beside romanians themselves,wtf 😂😂
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eferalgan@reddit

When you say everyone you are referring to yourself? I told you about the Aromanians that moved from Bulgaria to Romania and were calling Romania “mother country”. By the way, the wealthiest person in Romania is a Aromanian (we are calling them “Român-Machedon” in Romania)
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

According to Universal sources ,to any scientific papers,literally everyone in the world?why are you being so disrespectful to the vlach community?
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eferalgan@reddit

I love Aromanians, they are part of the larger Romanian family. I am just stating the truth here, you are a Romanian hater, for some reason
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eferalgan@reddit

If you were Vlach, you would know your history. You don’t even know where “Vlach” term came from…
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

I perfectly know history,I know that the term Vlach meant at the beginning Outsider referring to all outsiders and then shifted to only romance language speaker of the balkan ,you do not know history and keep lying about it.
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eferalgan@reddit

Lol…you read that Gemini AI explanation backwards! Again “Walhaz” was the name given by the Germans to the Latin/Romance speakers. In the Byzantine the term evolved into “Vlachos”, and then into “Walachia” - meaning the land of the Vlachs.
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Im not reading anything unlike you Im well versed in the topic ,Wlach was not referred to Latin speaker but to Outsiders !!!!!!!
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eferalgan@reddit

Can you give me source for this? Yes, it was a “Foreigner” label given by the Germans to the Latin/Romance speakers. That name stuck
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

0 argmunent ,you are just repeating an already disproven nationalistic and you refuste to accept the main stream sources,Romania does not recognize vlachs as minority althoug they have been asked many times from vlach commnunity,sham on you Romania!!!
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eferalgan@reddit

First of all, you are no Vlach. Now, the border is a condition 🤣 . If we don’t share a border then the rules don’t apply? How about the Aromanians in Serbia and Bulgaria? How about the Timocen Aromanians? For they, the rules apply? We have a common border with them. This is stupid After the World War 2, a large part of Aromanians, mainly from Bulgaria had relocated in Romania in the Dobrogea region. All of them were saying they were coming home to the Mother Country (Țara Mamă). Vlachs knows their history, unlike you No, there was no reference to “Vlachs” during the Roman times. Again, is a German term that became popular. In the Roman times, there was no reference because they were Romans they were speaking Latin. During late Byzantine times, they were referred as “people who are speaking an Italian related language”. During those times, Byzantine was mainly Greek, Latin was only used as a language of communication between countries not between people
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/bvg4bta83udg1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b8f2b1ef900b2a7c03742296e3ecebdd3d85b15 Exaty like Greeks you do not recognize Vlachs,what a shame
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eferalgan@reddit

This is retarded. How can you recognize a minority someone who speaks a slightly altered version of Romanian? The Italians are recognizing Sicilian or Napoletan speakers as minorities? No, of course not because that would be crazy
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Is an ethnic minority completely unrelated to romanians !!!you see you exactly like greeks😂😂 You got schooled today !!!
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eferalgan@reddit

It is not, no matter how much you induce Google Gemini to tell you what you want to hear
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

You must have a sad life bro,if you try to telle any vlach thag they are romanian,they will slap the shit out of you😂😂
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Acadamia is one the main websites where you can see peer reviewed scientific but I see you made that choice bro😂😂
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eferalgan@reddit

The website is not a scientific source, is a business. I have sent you a document issued by a scientific institution
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

The website is one of the most famous website with acaddemic sources,if you click the link you would se 50+ papers of the Aromanian language,what you are smoking bro?I want smth😂😂
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eferalgan@reddit

Whatever. Still not a scientific institution
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Dude the nationalistic paper is not a scientific source😂😂wikpedia is way more credible because represent what main stream linguists claim not the nationalistic agenda of the governments ,who peer reviewed that paper?😂😂you need to study and stop being ignorant
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eferalgan@reddit

Is not a nationalistic paper, Romanian Academy is a scientific institution, it is not involved in politics. Again, I can probably modify that article in Wikipedia, probably I will do it because I have the academic sources. I don’t know how am I the ignorant one, as I am citing scientific sources.
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

I also would like you to change the Wikipedia page I sent,I bet you cannot
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eferalgan@reddit

I edited a lot of Wikipedia articles. I will take a look at this one
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

I listed another link ,your paper it is not only not scientific but is just a claim that is not shared by main stream lingusits,accroding to the whole world is a Language ,accordint to a Romaninan paper/claim (no science involved here) is a dialect ,if you wanna stay ignorant you are welcome ,if not ,read the paper I listed
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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Romance_languages
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Lothronion@reddit

Well, what is the evidence for that? And I am not speaking of a singular organization, it is not as if there is one only; often there are regional ones, even for the same identity. The Pontians have a whole host of different association, often functioning as local municipal cultural centers, alongside the more official ones (hence why there must be many dozens, only in Athens). Even the Dorians I listed above, all have various cultural societies. As for the decline of Grecian Vlach dialects, that is certainly not some unique case. This has been occurring through all of Greece, where all Greek dialects have been in steep decline through the 20th century and the early 21st century AD. Out of the Dorians I listed above, the Old Maniot and Old Tsakonian dialects are practically dead. And unlike in other countries, such as France, where the state deliberately killed any linguistic dissimilarity, what happened in Greece was more subaltern: the various Greek dialects essentially killed themselves, mainly through the need for speaking Modern Demotic Greek in order to participate in the higher political and economic fabric of the country (with local dialects being only useful in their local framework), the domination of Athenian media over local ones (perhaps with Central Macedonia being an exception, thanks to those established in Thessaloniki), and the rampant urbanization and centralization of the country in the 1950s-1960s, resulting in around 1/4th of today's Greek population living in Attica.
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eferalgan@reddit

You are speaking from the planet Mars. Aromanian is not a Greek dialect. Is a language close to Romanian language. Aromanians are the descendants of the Daco-Romanians of antiquity who developed their language being away from their mother country. Similar with how Italian and Romanian have evolved over time being separated by territory. They should have minorities protection in order to preserve their language and culture
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Lothronion@reddit

>Aromanian is not a Greek dialect. And where did I claim that it is one, exactly? I merely explained that even Greek dialects are dying due to the attitudes of Greeks towards anything that is not Modern Demotic Greek, which stance also affected Grecian Vlach and Arvanitika. My point was mainly about how these tongues are not being purposefully phased out by the Greek state, but instead their own speakers slowly elect to stop using them, more and more. This is exactly how Cappadocian Greek has become almost extinct today. In comparison, Pontic Greek has only managed to survive through deliberate effort by the Pontian Greeks in Greece, in spite of that general attitude (and even still, many of them have forgotten it). >They should have minorities protection in order to preserve their language and culture I asked it above, I ask again; why should they be given such a status and be made to preserve their distinct characteristics, if they do not want to? I agree it is regrettable to end up with a bland uniform sameness, but that is up to them, and nobody is stopping them.
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Fredfett@reddit

I’m simply curious here but would you support a government led effort to preserve, support, maintain any and all cultural protections if groups within the nation pursued it? For example language rights, education, direct cultural funding (cultural institutions, museums, archives etc.) stuff of that nature if it doesn’t already exist. You seem very well informed and I’m curious as to your thoughts about all of this.
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eferalgan@reddit

How do you know that they don’t want it? It has been organized a referendum and they voted that they don’t want their language preserved? Or you have this from a shady guy that is on the payroll of the Greek government?
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Lothronion@reddit

If they wanted to preserve Vlach dialects of Greece, they could have done so, just like Pontian Greeks do with their own, despite it being barely intelligible to other Greeks (and for many decades being looked down upon). They elect not to, hence the results of today it being in decline.
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eferalgan@reddit

My understanding is that the affairs of the Aromanians in Greece are run by a Aromanian association called Consiliul Makedonarmânjilor. There is a bit of drama with this one, I will try to explain it in brief, so you can understand the reason. I am not blaming the Greek government fully, I will explain: So when Romania entered in the EU (around 2007) the Aromanians from Greece, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania and some from Romania! wanted that Aromanians be recognized as a minority because they wanted the EU minority funds and a guaranteed place in the Parliament. At that point in time, this initiative was a cash grab, nobody was bothered about what a minority means and what their role as an association truly is. That initiative failed for obvious reasons. But the drama only grew from that point forward. Stere Samara the leader of Consiliul Makedonarmânjilor, said that they should receive funds too, not only the Turks (which are recognized as a minority). The Romanian academy stated clearly that Aromanian is a dialect of Romanian language, but Stere Samara was saying that the Greek academy recognize them as Greeks!!! In the meantime, the Aromanian minorities from the other countries had gave up their claims in face of reality, was even a drama between Albania and Greece, the Albanians accusing Greeks that they wanted to assimilate the Aromanians from Northern Epirus because they would have claims on the South of Albania. Anyway, long story short, these days, only in Greece the Aromanians are not recognized as a minority and it is known that the head of the Aromanian association is on the payroll of the Greek government
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fk_censors@reddit

Wtf do Aromanians have to do with Dacia???
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eferalgan@reddit

Learn history Beavis
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champagnenanotube@reddit

Lol the Greek state irregardless of governments is extremely fascist against minorities. They don’t recognize ANY minority in their country.
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New_Document_7964@reddit

There is a muslim minority with all their rights protected.
View on Reddit #76044228

champagnenanotube@reddit

So which ethnicities are recognized as minorities? Is it only a minority based on religion that is recognized??
View on Reddit #76053681

New_Document_7964@reddit

>Is it only a minority based on religion that is recognized?? Yes, that's what I wrote. Islam is a religion and its followers are called muslims.
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eferalgan@reddit

A minority should be recognized on the basis of ethnicity, not on the basis of religion
View on Reddit #76056186

New_Document_7964@reddit

Really?? Why
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eferalgan@reddit

Because that’s the definition of a minority! Geez!🙄
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New_Document_7964@reddit

Here you go buddy *Processing img oajhateznsdg1...* Source : [https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/sr-minority-issues/about-minorities-and-human-rights](https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/sr-minority-issues/about-minorities-and-human-rights)
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eferalgan@reddit

Yes, and?
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New_Document_7964@reddit

That's how the UN defines a minority. If you think your definition is more valuable, more power to you.
View on Reddit #76057162

eferalgan@reddit

How does this contradicts what I was saying?
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New_Document_7964@reddit

You are just playing dumb now. I don't like people who play dumb. Have a good night.
View on Reddit #76057272

eferalgan@reddit

Typical! When you are left without arguments, you just insult and leave! Bravo
View on Reddit #76057380

New_Document_7964@reddit

I don't need 50 arguments, one is enough to counter your made up definition of a minority. If you don't want to accept it, there is nothing I can do.
View on Reddit #76057736

champagnenanotube@reddit

And now we know why the Greek state is so oppressive of other ethnicities. Even their redditors are hostile, imagine the rest of the population
View on Reddit #76057168

eferalgan@reddit

I know and that is wrong
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kontinos1@reddit

Who exactly? Where exactly? This is a genuine question. Because most of that is intertwined in greek language and culture. Are there people in Greece than identify as vlachs that need that kind of protection? Are they threatened? Do they preserve the original language and culture somewhere i dont know about and are hindered of doing so?
View on Reddit #76043994

eferalgan@reddit

The Aromanians minority is exactly who. In Greece is exactly where. There is actually a song “From Metsovo till Miles, Ioanina” (Din Aminciu pan Ameru) Sure, they have their own language - the Aromanian language and culture. You are the reason why they should be protected. You don’t know anything about them. Hard to bring a serious argument that you don’t have any minorities in Greece. Why do you want to turn them all Greek? What are you afraid of?
View on Reddit #76044739

kontinos1@reddit

I don't know how i can make this clear. Where in Greece? How many? How are they threatened and need an official minority status? Are they prohibited from using their language? Are they asking for protection? From what? Your argument is incomplete.
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eferalgan@reddit

Do you want me to give you the home address of a random Aromanian? Are you serious? Have you heard of Metsovo? How many? Is not your duty to count them? Is your country, no? The threat is of being assimilated by the Greek majority and their language and culture will disappear
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kontinos1@reddit

Integration isn't a threat, it is a two way process. And languages and cultures wither and die from the beginning of history, either violently or peacefully. It is sad, but suppression isn't always the reason. You are advocating for the rights of this group to be recognised as a minority, you provide the facts.
View on Reddit #76047477

eferalgan@reddit

What facts you want? You doubt that they exist? I told you, Metsovo is probably the center place of Aromanians in Greece
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kontinos1@reddit

I doubt they are being threatened and i doubt they advocate to be recognised as an ethnic minority.
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eferalgan@reddit

The Greek state and Greek academy recognizes them as Greeks!!! This is the guaranteed way that they will be assimilated and they will lose their language and culture
View on Reddit #76055933

kontinos1@reddit

And? Has this group raised concerns about this? Is there some kind of organisation that speaks for them saying otherwise? Or is it just you?
View on Reddit #76056531

eferalgan@reddit

In all of the Balkan countries they are recognized as a Romanian minority, only in Greece they are not
View on Reddit #76056656

Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

You are delusional once again
View on Reddit #76052903

eferalgan@reddit

In what way?
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saebica7@reddit

+1
View on Reddit #76046343

saebica7@reddit

Aderfe, IN GREECE, IF YOU SPEAK AROMANIAN, and there'a also videos, Greeks will tell you to stop because it's forbidden, they would stare badly. I was THROWN OUT of a hotel because I spoke Aromanian to the boss who owns it by HER SON I was in a shop in Metsovo, the lady, her husband and son they all spoke Aromanian to me and when she said to a Greek "LOOK, they are Aromanians, they came to visit us" he looked very mad at us and told us to leave the city".. I studied Greek, I know some Greek, I understand Greek :)
View on Reddit #76045906

saebica7@reddit

Thank you
View on Reddit #76045097

eferalgan@reddit

Dumnezeu să vă ajute și să vă binecuvânteze!
View on Reddit #76045482

Scoreboardvietnam@reddit

It is so funny that you don’t even understand what a minority is
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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

*Processing img djec3ij5rsdg1...*
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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Vlach is a derogatory term,bit aromanians and why they will be ashame being aromanians??? they have beatiful culture,language,cuagom etc. Meaby is from outside force thinking tha being aromanian is"bad"
View on Reddit #76043019

TheGodfather742@reddit

Not at all in Greece, it's just an ethnogroup. If you go to a Vlach (my mother's side is) and tell them they are aromanians they will ask you wtf is that? And no Vlach has ever considered themselves to not be Greek, it's like saying Pontic Greek or Cretan Greek.
View on Reddit #76043554

bagpulistu@reddit

That's not true, there where tens, if not hundreds of thousands of Aromanians that migrated from Greece to Romania in the 19th and early 20th century, precisely because they didn't fit in there. They call themselves "armâni" and Romanians call them "machedoni" because they came from that region. Of course the ones that remained, given another century of time , mostly assimilated the Greek society. So I don't deny that today's Vlachs in Greece do not consider themselves Greek, but that's not true for all Vlachs in general.
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Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

The ones that did not migrate identified already as Greeks it has nothing to do with the so called century. You got your answer
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bagpulistu@reddit

That's also not true. We're talking about people who lived 4-8 generations ago, you can't speak for them how they felt. This likely was before the age of nationalism, so spoken language was less important for a person's identity than religion was. Like it or not, cultural assimilation is a natural process even if governments do not actively promote it. It depends on factors like community numbers, cultural similarity, people's willingness to integrate etc. And like it or not, many countries, especially in the Balkans and including Greece promoted assimilation of their minorities. Think about the times the Mediterranean basin was full of Greek colonies. Where are those Greeks from Marseilles, Naples, Syracuse or Alexandria today? Probably some were forced to flee, others were murdered, but many assimilated into the cultures that overran them. It's funny of how the Aromanian community is divided in Romania: some say they're Aromanian-Romanians and their language is a dialect of Romanian, so they're not a minority. Other say that they speak a separate language and there's a movement to attain minority status.
View on Reddit #76055729

dcell1974@reddit

It isn't derogatory among Vlachs in Greece. My sister is married to Vlach, he and his family call themselves Vlachs. I have never heard anyone use it in a derogatory way.
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Mminas@reddit

That outside force maybe existed 100 years ago. The national consciousness has now been irrevocably changed.
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slight_digression@reddit

Not really, given that they identify as such themselves, as least in Macedonia.
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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Seeing your coments i imagine why they dont have any officialy recognise minority or any rights for years,i garantee they have totally pressur from greek state and sociaety for years they live through roman times,western and eastern ,ottomans for thousend of years and unexcpeted theu disappear in greek state???
View on Reddit #76044543

Yavannia@reddit

You are talking straight from your ass. I am half vlach from my mom's side. We are from northern Greece so there are a lot of us. She is in Vlach cultural group, her boss at work is also and he is the president of the city's Vlach group. They recently had a big meeting in Vienna of all places, they are obsessed with traditional dances and stuff. Nobody is oppressed or have heard anything of such complaint.
View on Reddit #76052609

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

You cant justify nothing greek state since creation never recognise minorities,to grant them rights for school,to protect traditions etc greek state and sociaety have opressed minorities to declare themselvs greek and is fact,can justify nothing
View on Reddit #76053322

Yavannia@reddit

As I said my family are members in one of the largest and most active Vlach associations in northern Greece. This is a letter that they sent in 2011 to the Romanian president who asked for them to be granted minority status and yes it's in greek but their reply was, that we are Greeks and others should stop playing political games by using us. https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1894026558219446&set=a.365009047787879&locale=el_GR So please stop pretending to care about us, we can take care of ourselves and we aren't oppressed, it's pretty obvious what you are trying to do.
View on Reddit #76054366

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

It means nothing greece never have recognise aromanian as official natonal minority with protected law,but went with assimilation.its more than enough i read nonsens that vlachs are more greeks than greeks or they will punch you of you said to them they are aromanians,so for they ressist eastern roman empire,slavis,ottomans and suddenly they hate themselvs???cmon man tell the real story thats all not witj fear
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Yavannia@reddit

Keep trying to push your sad agenda by trying to use us for your goals, it's very obvious what you are trying to push. Pretty pathetic if you ask me... I linked you the association, contact them to ask if they are afraid or something to prove your point.
View on Reddit #76055169

Mminas@reddit

You're being overly dramatic. You can make a claim that they were oppressed during the nation building process of the modern Greek state but they are definitely not oppressed now. They are just assimilated.
View on Reddit #76045390

phoinikaskg@reddit

They wouldn't punch you in the face but they do consider themselves as greeks, yes. They don't consider being a vlach as a primary "national" identity. They just identify themselves as greek vlachs.
View on Reddit #76043762

Mminas@reddit

They don't consider being Vlach as a "national" identity whatsoever, primary, secondary or otherwise.
View on Reddit #76050426

phoinikaskg@reddit

I'm not sure about your definition of "national" but we could use ethnic/ethnicity as a better term.
View on Reddit #76054248

Mminas@reddit

Yes we could. Being Vlach is not an ethnicity just like being Sarakatsani or Karagounides or Tsakonians isn't.
View on Reddit #76054691

Yavannia@reddit

My family are members in one of the largest and most active Vlach associations in northern Greece. This is a letter that they sent in 2011 to the Romanian president who asked for them to be granted minority status and yes it's in greek but their reply was as you mention, that we are Greeks and others should stop playing political games by using us. https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1894026558219446&set=a.365009047787879&locale=el_GR
View on Reddit #76054270

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

What of bunch of nonsense,is not only you but majoroty of greeks i dont know if you belive you this yourself.for thousend of years aromanians were there in western,eastern roman empire,ottoman empire,and sudennly they hated themselvs of being aromanians,and suddenly disapear in greek state ??? I wonder why
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Mminas@reddit

You're spamming the same response over and over. I grew up in a Vlach neighborhood. I'm telling you what they believe, not what I believe. But I guess you have no respect for what these people think. Just pushing your agenda...
View on Reddit #76053180

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Now you tell me that aromanians ressit eastern roman empire,slavics,ottoman empire for thlusend of years and suddenly in greek state they start hating themselvs?? and being more greek than greeks?? It is nonsens you can say whatever you want
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Mminas@reddit

The only one here hating on Greek Vlachs is you, treating them like they have no agency or ability to self determine.
View on Reddit #76053815

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

🤣🤣🤣 are you ok, thats why aromanians never have been recognise officially with protected law in greece 🤣🤣🤣
View on Reddit #76054057

fk_censors@reddit

I don't think they have such low IQs to be triggered so easily to violence.
View on Reddit #76050365

Mminas@reddit

It's hyperbole.
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Candid_Company_3289@reddit

Similar to Vlach descendants in Bosnia and western Serbia. Today they are the most proud and nationalist Serbs
View on Reddit #76043912

rrrzrrr@reddit

Is there a way to identify Vlach descendants in these regions? By last name or something?
View on Reddit #76047746

Candid_Company_3289@reddit

Not by name, but by the places their family comes from yes. Also physically it's pretty easy to tell. Wide, stocky, dark (haired), "mountain man" type.
View on Reddit #76048628

Distinct_Revenue@reddit

Years of minority rights suppression will do that to a mf
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TastyRancidLemons@reddit

I had a fling with a Vlach girl for a while. She called herself Vlach Greek. She didn't know what an Aromanian is. Her language wasn't Greek but she could speak Greek fluently. Since I'm terminally online, I asked her if she considers herself non-Greek and she told me "that's racist" and "of course she's Greek" Maybe her parents had different opinions though. I never had pillow talk with them so I wouldn't know. Vlach should absolutely be considered a minority language, I agree with that.
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albanussy@reddit

There you go, thank you for giving the answer. This is exactly why they were never recognized. So they wouldn’t be differentiated and over time would get assimilated so that one day Greece would be considered a proper homogenous country.
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Tomorr3@reddit

Exactly. These guys aleays fail to see the point these posts usually try to convey and they always resort to: bUt ThEy ArE gReEks AnD wIlL kIlL yOu OtHeRwIsE
View on Reddit #76057320

albanussy@reddit

Se ose jan budallenj mendjeshkurter, ose jan skutha tinezare.
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8NkB8@reddit

>Sometimes I wonder, do the people who post these thinly veiled jabs at Greece understand that Greeks live alongside these "oppressed minorities" for centuries now? Do they think they'll step into Greece and all the Vlachs and Arvanites will throw away their chains like the Yunkai slaves greeting Daenerys in game of thrones? Good question. Far from leading a revolt against the "oppressive" Greek Kingdom, these people played a major role in its formation and held numerous high positions in the government and military. But they were all brainwashed idiots according to some...
View on Reddit #76060589

RestepcaMahAutoritha@reddit

Being a recognized minority in Romania means several things. For one the hungarian minority in romania has its own public funded schools which only teach in their language. They also have a government party to represent them. Do the aromanians in greece enjoy similar privileges? Not all "chains" are physical.
View on Reddit #76046399

TastyRancidLemons@reddit

I agree that the schools should be re-opened. I never refused this. Vlach schools did exist in Greece during the early 20th century under specific bilateral agreements with Romania. But they were closed by the late 1940s after the Romanian state under Causescu stopped funding them and the Greek government was released from prior interwar obligations. It's absolutely necessary to re-open them, but there's a world of difference between no official recognition and oppression. Greece is hardly unique in this. The Nordic countries treated the Sami people in horrendous ways and they ARE a recognized minority there. Greece doesn't fund minority schools for Vlachs, undeniable truth. But Vlachs themselves here haven't sued the government over it. The Vlachs themselves should testify on their treatments here in Greece. I will not speak over them. Let them tell their own stories and judge those stories for yourself.
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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

*Processing img y8acrzo1rsdg1...* With today technologies with IA.you cant hide anything
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CalarasiPoznasi@reddit

Romanians here. The idea that vlachs are Romanians arrived in the 20th century when everyone was obsessed with ethno nationalism, everyone wanted to increase their population and form a single nationality. All Romanians are vlachs but not all vlachs are Romanians. Vlach does not represent an ethnicity, but a way of living and a way of speech. Romanians and vlachs speak a east romance language and share some words, that's all. If they want the status of minority they should ask for it, Greece is in the EU, not like they will forbid them
View on Reddit #76055746

Silmarillien@reddit

I'm half Vlach born and raised in Greece. I consider myself Greek. The Vlach heritage had nothing super distinct when I was growing up. I'd hear a bit of the language and the songs, but that's all. My Vlach famil6 spoke Greek mostly, had Greek names, Orthodox religion, went to Greek school etc. It felt just a subgroup of Greece, like Pontians or Sarakatsani. I don't see the point of being seen as something distinct.
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TastyRancidLemons@reddit

Finally, a Vlach responds. OP has questions so maybe you can answer. Did you live or have family in a Vlach village? How many people in your family or Vlach acquaintances felt non-Greek or denounced Greece behind closed doors?  Does your family want to restore the Treaty of Bucharest (1913) which included a formal agreement between Greece and Romania that allowed "Kutzovlach" schools to continue operating?
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fk_censors@reddit

How are you sure it's a real Vlach and not a propagandist for the Greek government? The "we identify as Greek" shtick looks a little too over the top.
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phoinikaskg@reddit

As another vlach greek, I concur. Vlachs in Greece identify themselves as greeks. Nothing being said is over the top, it's my exact experience as well. All my relatives, village residents, etc identify as greeks, no doubt. I don't know about the greek state but they don't need to put any propaganda as nobody says anything contractive about this. At least I myself, never heard of any other opinion. Don't believe us if you may, just travel to any vlach village in Greece and ask them yourself.
View on Reddit #76055557

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Aromanians have ressit eastern roman empire,ottoman emlire,sudenly they disapear in greek state and they didnt want to be recognise as aromanians?? i wander why???
View on Reddit #76051289

Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

They were so idiot that a wealthy Aromanian gave away his fortune for buying what's probably one of the most succesful ships of the 20th century, armored cruiser Averof, and his grand nephew wrote a book called Axe and Fire describing how he fought separatists (Slavic) in the civil war. Ah and he was the leader of the right wing of the right wing party of Greece. Yes these people seemed terrorized by the Greek state which they cofounded. You do not understand that Hellenism has been a true cosmopolitan culture and you try to compare it with backwater local ones.
View on Reddit #76052119

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Yes and trump think like you,english language is "superior",usa is new rome is "superior" others are backward" that have to hate themselvs🤣🤣
View on Reddit #76052796

ClothesZestyclose814@reddit

Propaganda for what, lol? Vlachs in Greece consider themselves Greeks, that's just how it is. Nobody sees them as an ethnic group, literally not a single soul.
View on Reddit #76050887

fk_censors@reddit

Propaganda that Greece is only inhabited by Greeks.
View on Reddit #76051189

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

,is not only you but majority of greeks i dont know if you belive you this yourself.for thousend of years aromanians were there in western,eastern roman empire,ottoman empire,and sudennly they hated themselvs of being aromanians,and suddenly disapear in greek state???
View on Reddit #76051860

Silmarillien@reddit

I lived in a suburb of a city, which was inhabited mostly by Vlachs, who came from a Vlach village. None of my Vlach family felt non-Greek. My grandfather and his brother fought for Greece in the wars. They'd feel offended if someone told them they're not real Greeks. I doubt they have any idea of that treaty. I had never heard of it before. It was enough for them to be taught the language from their parents.
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anon58588@reddit

Go tell a Greek with Arvanitic roots that he is not Greek but Albanian and see what happens.
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tortarusa@reddit

Arvanite here. I said YAY YAY YIPPEE HOORAY
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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

Who cares about their reaction? It's a historical and genetic fact that Arvanites are of Medieval Albanian ancestry.
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Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

Man this is my favorite quote. I would like someone to try and explain this to that infamous General Pangalos who almost started a new Greek Bulgarian war in 1925 and he was probably crying that Lausane treaty was signed with turkey in 1922 instead of his pet project of a war in Eastern Thrace.
View on Reddit #76052324

abki12c@reddit

What is this Romanian nationalism? Why is it that people from Albania and Macedonia come here and claim Greece supressses minorities when the Albanian government seizes the property of the Greeks in North Epirus to make them tourist resorts and in North "Macedonia" anyone who identifies as Bulgarian is ostracized? Vlachs in Greece are Greeks and have Greek DNA. They cluster with Greeks from Epirus, Thessaly and Macedonia. They just spoke a latinized dialect which was forced upon them during the Roman Empire.
View on Reddit #76047228

icancount192@reddit

>They just spoke a latinized dialect which was forced upon them during the Roman Empire. That's not true and there's no evidence for this. The funny thing is that I hear mostly Greek Vlachs repeating this theory. The thing with Christian minorities in Greece is that through the Greek school and every day life all mostly abandoned their ethnic identities in favor of Greekness to the point they today get offended if you dare to insinuate that their ethnic origin might not be Greek. I've heard Arvanites from Souli deny they are Arvanites and make up stories about how they supposedly kicked out all Arvanites back to Albania. I've heard people with the most Slavic sounding names (Gatsos) tell me how they have zero Slavic origins and they were forced to change their Greek names to Bulgarian during some occupation or another. And of course the Vlachs that say they were either latinized or, the funniest thing, they tell me how their ancestors were merchants in Romania and learned the language there and came back to Greece speaking Romania. Why does this happen? It's a non violent, non forced assimilation. Greek was the language of schools and a status language. Greekness was seen as a status thing since the Ottoman times. The truth is the Balkans were a very mixed populace. A good 10% or more of Greece in the early 20th century weren't ethnic Greeks. As 10% of Turkey was Greek, as 5% of Albania was Greek, as 5% of Bulgaria was Greek. Most Greeks from these places moved back to Greece through volition or force. Many also settled permanently abroad as they were more affluent compared to Vlachs, Slavic Macedonians or Pomaks living in Greece. So no reason for them to stay put to a land they own.
View on Reddit #76059361

abki12c@reddit

> That's not true and there's no evidence for this. The evidence is that Vlachs in Greece have Greek DNA. How do you think people with Greek DNA spoke a Latin based language, through assimilation. How was Romanian formed from Latin. Through assimilation. Georgios Babiniotis, in Etymological Dictionary of Modern Greek, KENTRO LEXIKOLOGIAS, 2009, writes the following: Vlach < Slavic Vlaha < Old German Wal(a)h < Latin Volcae (> Hellenistic Greek Oualkai), the name of a Celtic tribe that had been Latinized and lived under Germanic rule. He continues with a “HISTORICAL NOTE”: The Vlachs or Aromanians (Arman, “Romans”) of the Greek area descend from populations that had been Latinized during the Roman period and speak a Romance dialect related to Romanian. The Latin name Volcae (from which the medieval Vlach derives), which referred to Celtic subjects of the Roman and later the Germanic Empire, forms the origin from which the names of various present-day Celtic remnants in Europe are traced, e.g., the Welsh (Welsh, Great Britain), Walloons (Wallons, French-speaking Belgians), Gauls (Gaylois, France).
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icancount192@reddit

Every single linguist disagrees with Babiniotis. Vlack originates from Proto-Germanic walhaz meaning "foreigner" Also there's zero evidence of any DNA continuity of Vlachs being "latinized Greeks" and that would be stupid. They had 1,000 years of the Byzantines to speak Greek again, why would they start speaking Greek during the 20th century again? Vlachs are not ethnic Greeks.
View on Reddit #76076769

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Albania recognise minorities,greek,aromanian,bulgarian etc we grant them school,customs,culture etc and that who size for tourist resort,villas is fake info,its not only greeks there and albanians too have taken villas,6,7,8apartaments in seaside go there if you dont belive >Vlachs in Greece are Greeks and have Greek DNA. They cluster with Greeks from Epirus, Thessaly and Macedonia. They just spoke a latinized dialect which was forced upon them during the Roman Empire. This is enough.aromanians were there through thousend of years western,eastern empire,ottoman e.pire and sudennly they desapear in greek state??
View on Reddit #76047617

abki12c@reddit

In Albania the elected mayor of Himara, a town with a large Greek minority, was put in jail. Also under Enver Hoxha property that belonged to Greeks was seized and there's still issues with property claimed during that era, including properties of the Greek Orthodox Church. As for aromanians they didn't dissapear they just returned to their roots. They have Greek DNA, identify as Greek and sacrificed their lives for Greece. Just like the Greeks who called themselves Romans because the term "Hellenic" was derogatory returned to their roots.
View on Reddit #76056949

bloodship123@reddit

He was put to jail for literally buying votes tho lol. And he became an European Parliament memeber from the Greek side… go and figure
View on Reddit #76058328

saebica7@reddit

Another lie, as always. Greeks have never been "Latinised" 😂 We have documents that the Greek Church forced the assimilation because we spoke "Devil's language" Greek Dna = 0
View on Reddit #76049321

abki12c@reddit

I expected nothing less from the Romanian separatist moderator of r/Aromanian . Go somewhere else to spread your propaganda. Aromanians were considered part of the Rum millet till Romanian nationalism kicked in and the Ottomans seperated them from the Rum millet and then Romania started building Romanian schools in Greece to get rid of their Greek identity. And yes, Vlachs in Greeks have Greek DNA, shocking
View on Reddit #76050907

saebica7@reddit

1. I am not from r/Aromanian. 2. I am against the Romanian and the Greek propagandas. 3. Aromanians are an ethnic and linguistic group. 4. Ottomans considered us ULLAH MILET since 03 May 1903 5. Greek Dna means nothing. 6. We are Aromanians, not Vlachs. Vlach is an exonym given by the Germanic people. You're exactly the Greek propagandist who doesn't even know the proper terms but wants to deny any evidence about the Greek propaganda, not only with Aromanians, but Arvanites, Turks, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Roma, Serbians and so on. You're the most chauvinistic country in Europe, we already know it.
View on Reddit #76051306

abki12c@reddit

> Ottomans considered us ULLAH MILET since 03 May 1903 1905 but ok, Romanian nationalism played a role in pushing for that recognition > Greek Dna means nothing. Lol tell that to the Vlachs here. Even if this didn't play a role they identify as Greek. It's not 1905 where people are classified in Millets from Ottomans You're the type of propagandist that will invent new minorities in Greece that are allegedly suppressed and need to be saved by the evil Greeks and will adopt propaganda from other Balkan countries against Greece. And yes, it's difficult not to be proud of a culture with such long history and inventions Lol i didn't block you
View on Reddit #76054364

Extreme_Smoke_8965@reddit

Another presentation by an Albanian about why Greece is actually super evil or something
View on Reddit #76046506

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

It about eu values,resoect,tolerance dont you want bulgarian minority in north macedonia,and you know albania offically recognise bulgarian minorities too granting them schools,alcutlure etc so its a bed thing you think???
View on Reddit #76049680

Extreme_Smoke_8965@reddit

Why mention Bulgaria? This isn’t about Bulgaria.
View on Reddit #76063893

NoReportedTaxes@reddit

they are just pissed that greece demands minority rights for greeks in albania. kinda ironic, but what can we do? They Greece and the EU have our balls in their fist
View on Reddit #76060505

eferalgan@reddit

Is not a nationalistic paper, Romanian Academy is a scientific institution, it is not involved in politics. Again, I can probably modify that article in Wikipedia, probably I will do it because I have the academic sources. I don’t know how am I the ignorant one, as I am citing scientific sources.
View on Reddit #76063529

SalientSalmorejo@reddit

The vlachs themselves would never think of themselves as a minority nowadays. Source: I am one of them and I have a decent sample size.
View on Reddit #76042768

Zekieb@reddit

I'd like to ask some questions if thats alright. 1. Do you and the Vlachs in your environment have a "dual-identity" as in do they consider themselves both Greek and Vlach? 2. Is the language still spoken? Is it dying or doing alright? 3. Are there any resources or even schools present to learn aromanian or is it only transmitted via family?
View on Reddit #76044156

Rikerutz@reddit

I can also answer for Romania. We don call ourselves vlachs, but armani, coming for aromanians. 1. In Romania vlach (arman or machidon) is considered more of a geographical/culture identity rather than an ethnic one. Both romanians and vlachs consider vlachs as "romanians from south of the Danube". So romanian vlach is like bavarian german. 2. The language is dying as the vlachs are fully integrated so romanian makes a lot more sense as a first language. Only old people still speak it. 3. There are schools or classes and it's also transmitted in the families.
View on Reddit #76062646

SalientSalmorejo@reddit

1. I do not know anyone who considers themselves anything but Greek, whose ancestors maybe also spoke another language (not claiming this is historically accurate but it is, in my experience, what most if not all think) 2. I do not k know anyone under maybe 40-50 who speaks the language. A couple of words here and there tops. The older generations (80+) knew and spoke vlach often mixed with Greek (at least as I was growing up in the 80-90s) 3. I am not aware of any schools and I do not believe the language was ever taught in school or written.
View on Reddit #76045589

Zekieb@reddit

Thank you, very much for the detailed answers! Kinda sad to see languages and dialects slowly wither away due to negligence and linguistic centralization. Regardless, thanks again for the honest answers.
View on Reddit #76046190

Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

This is a widespread issue. Even ancient Greek dialects like the Doric Tsakonika or the Ionian Pontic are fading away to the standard Greek not only Aromanian or Arvanitika.
View on Reddit #76052532

DontCareHowICallMe@reddit

Same for Pontic. My mother and father still can speak the language at an efficient level but me and my siblings only know some words at best, can't form sentences
View on Reddit #76055133

phoinikaskg@reddit

Not the op, but can answer this for vlachs in Greece: 1. Yes 2. Yes, by a few old people in rural areas. For sure it is dying and probably will be extinct in a few decades. 3. It is by family only. Or it used to be, nowadays not even that.
View on Reddit #76045150

Zekieb@reddit

I appreciate the answer, thank you !
View on Reddit #76045917

greekhop@reddit

Thanks for commenting here, you know that sometimes the Greek haters appear here and there, with various levels of virulence and with veiled or blatant attacks and propaganda. This topic of the Vlachs was discussed on reddit like a week or three ago, maybe it was in another subreddit. In any case, the leaders of Vlach communities in Greece where and are indescribably strident against being seen as an ethnic minority - they (you) are a minority language spoken by Greeks. Someone had posted various quotes and documents to that effect, that person was the expert not me, but apparently that was and is how Greek Vlachs self identify. I dated a Romanian girl once and that is how I learnt that Vlachika are very similar if not the same language as Romanian. Maybe the question is why Albania and North Macedonia do not identity their Vlachs as a Vlach-speaking Ethnic Greek minority... I'm kidding but I'm sure they wouldn't like that idea lol. As far as Aromanian schools and language support goes, here the Greek government barely cares about minority Greek languages, they will care about others? But that's a crying shame in my opinion, once these languages are gone, it will be almost impossible to bring them back.
View on Reddit #76050773

ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Bro wants to steal even Albanian Vlachs😂😂
View on Reddit #76058596

saebica7@reddit

Aromanian and Romanian are barely 50% similar. Same as Romanian and Italian
View on Reddit #76051731

Cool_Guy_Chazz@reddit

Vlashs (No Vlach in Greece uses the term "Aromanian") in Greece identify mostly as Greeks with Vlach being a subnational/"regional" identity. That's because from the beginning of Modern Greece Vlashs had played a big part in the creation of the country and were part of the Modern Greek national identity, with many Vlachs being to this day in high places of power.
View on Reddit #76060448

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

What of bunch of nonsense,is not only you bit majority of greeks i dont know if you belive you this yourself.for thousend of years aromanians were there in western,eastern roman empire,ottoman empire,and sudennly they hated themselvs of being aromanians,and suddenly disapear in greek state???
View on Reddit #76060711

Cool_Guy_Chazz@reddit

Under Ottoman rule, many native Greeks, Vlachs, Bulgarians, and others converted to Islam and were gradually assimilated into the Muslim often Turkish-speaking population. At the time of Greek independence, people in the Balkans generally cared far more about religious freedom than modern national identity. For many Orthodox Christians, the creation of an independent Greek state represented liberation as much in religious and civilizational terms as in ethnic ones. Through centralized education, the Church, and state institutions, groups such as the Vlachs were naturally integrated into the emerging Greek national identity. This differs from cases like your country Albania, whose independence occurred at the height of European nationalism, shaping a different path of national development.
View on Reddit #76061917

Diligent_Tomato_147@reddit

Is it true that Vlachs on general are descendands of Roman soldiers? Or am I wrong?
View on Reddit #76042167

S-onceto@reddit

Possibly, but there's no definitive answer. 
View on Reddit #76060802

RaulRene@reddit

Ish. A mix between the population that existed there like Dacia and the Romans that came and conquered
View on Reddit #76042325

fk_censors@reddit

Aromanians have nothing to do with Dacia. They are speakers of Romance languages in the Balkans, far away from Dacia.
View on Reddit #76050047

enigbert@reddit

Aromanians migrated from Northern Balkans (North of Jirecek line). Their ancestors were Illyrians or Dacians/Moesians.
View on Reddit #76052057

ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Any source of the migration?
View on Reddit #76058255

ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Dacia had its own language not a Latin one
View on Reddit #76043454

outlanderfhf@reddit

It got latinised, thats how you get Romania
View on Reddit #76049608

ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Yeah but Romanians and are Aromanians are completely different people ,the only thing they have in common is that they refused to get de-latinized after the fall of the Roman Empire
View on Reddit #76049823

outlanderfhf@reddit

Yes, eastern latins Hows that related to what i replied to?
View on Reddit #76050335

ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

I though you were the previous commentator that claimed Dacians and Romans
View on Reddit #76050596

Public-Restaurant566@reddit

They are definitely not shqiper
View on Reddit #76053655

ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

They are native people of the balkans autochthonous in nowadays Albania and Greece and Macedonia ,basically ancient Thracians/Ilyrians/Greeks that refused to get delatinized.
View on Reddit #76053938

iamamenace77@reddit

Afaik it s generally considered they were transhumant daco-romanian sheperds whose transhumance routes moved more and more towards the south
View on Reddit #76058112

shqiptarski1444@reddit

They’re Latinized Balkan natives
View on Reddit #76043312

ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

Not at all, "Balkan natives" are long gone, all modern day Balkanites are mixed with Byzantine Anatolians and Slavs.
View on Reddit #76052831

Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit

Of course. A medieval melting pot. I bet we can find coca-cola billboards on top of castle towers.
View on Reddit #76057702

cosmic_joke420@reddit

Yes, but as time passed many joined their communities, because they had so called "Vlach law", which gave them pass when it was time to cross the borders, because of their sheep and cattle. This was the case in Romania and Hungary, but I imagine it was similar in other places.
View on Reddit #76051523

Professional_Elk_489@reddit

They are latinised speakers south of the Danube up in the mountains with a non-settled tradition
View on Reddit #76049299

Gnomonas@reddit

The term "Vlach" isnt a national identity and it doesnt mean being descended from Romans either. It was a generic label used throughout the ages to signify places where local populations got latinised, hence you've got places like Wallachia in Romania, Wallonia in Belgium or Wallis/Valais in Switzerland.
View on Reddit #76046216

Thrilalia@reddit

We're so far away from that time that everyone in Europe is a descendant of a Roman Soldier.
View on Reddit #76044154

RowingMonkey@reddit

It’s true, my dad was a Roman soldier
View on Reddit #76045247

Tradeoffer69@reddit

A very affirming theory is that. Most probably from the Legio V Macedonica. The veterans usually settled big time in the Balkans.
View on Reddit #76043069

Zekieb@reddit

They are most likely the descendants of romanised locals and Roman colonists. Among whom of course former soldiers, but the claim all of them decend from Roman legionairs would be very difficult to prove.
View on Reddit #76042681

horrorwisp@reddit

Dang I live in a part of Greece that's full of vlachs and they tend to be more nationalistic with their Greek identity than the rest of the people here. This is all nonsense.
View on Reddit #76051276

saebica7@reddit

Because they've been brainwashed by the Greek church.
View on Reddit #76051632

horrorwisp@reddit

I'm not going to argue with a stranger on the internet. All I know is that my experiences are real and if you told a vlach here that they are not Greek they'd laugh in your face in the best case scenario. I'm engaged to a vlach and her family is very traditionalist and nationalist.
View on Reddit #76056525

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

What of bunch of nonsense,is not only you bit majoroty of greeks i dont know if you belive you this yourself.for thousend of years aromanians were there in western,eastern roman empire,ottoman empire,and sudennly they hated themselvs of being aromanians,and suddenly disapear in greek state???
View on Reddit #76060658

Mminas@reddit

A yes, they're all a bunch of idiots and you're going to save them, right?
View on Reddit #76053549

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

What of bunch of nonsense,is not only you bit majoroty of greeks i dont know if you belive you this yourself.for thousend of years aromanians were there in western,eastern roman empire,ottoman empire,and sudennly they hated themselvs of being aromanians,and suddenly disapear in greek state???
View on Reddit #76051478

georulez@reddit

Because we are ancient Greeks and shit. /s Greece is the descendant state of Romania (Byzantium) theyre not minorities if they were part of that state we are all Roman->Greek. They themselved opened Greek schools in Albania and Skopia (Moshopolis and Monastiri now named Bitola)so they recognise them as Aromanian to not recognise them as Greek. Meaning its actually Albania and Skopia not giving them the right to self identify.
View on Reddit #76051807

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Are you ok??
View on Reddit #76052218

MasterNinjaFury@reddit

He is right. Greece is the succesor state of Rhomania/Byzantium. Romioi/Greeks is the one and the same. Greece is also the state of the Romioi
View on Reddit #76058847

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Roman empire(Latin one) was called roma empire,romans,eastern roman emmpire ,was called again roman ampire neither eastern or byzantum.in 7th centurey adopted greek lamguahe eastern ones.but was emlire not an ethno state so greece now is etnho state or "empire"
View on Reddit #76059175

MasterNinjaFury@reddit

Scholars such as Kadelis describe Rhomania as a sort of proto nation state. As you know after 7th century islamic and slavic invasions the state contacrted to a mostly Greek speaking core. Over time to be Roman meant being Greek speaker, Greek Orthodox and etc. Basically to be Roman got hijacked by Greekness. So yes it was one. Greece is the succesor. For many of us Greeks we see all Romioi/Rum including Greek Orthodox of Syria as Greeks.
View on Reddit #76059603

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

But still not an ethno,state, without slavs still were multiethnic entity who were rules by emperor amd noble families,greek was empire language,in everything bit still not an natio state
View on Reddit #76060306

albo_kapedani@reddit

Christ and Saint Mary above! 🤦‍♂️
View on Reddit #76055349

New_Accident_4909@reddit

Serbs recognize Aromanians they just call em Cincari
View on Reddit #76043661

Duncekid101@reddit

Sadly, the Cincari are almost extinct in Serbia (even if they're famous as a group). One may freely declare themselves as a Cincar, but altogether they're far too few to form their own national council (like most other minorities can do). At the last census, there were only 327 Cincari. :(
View on Reddit #76051190

New_Accident_4909@reddit

Ever since Serbian uprising they were quick to assimilate
View on Reddit #76058877

Candid_Company_3289@reddit

It's what they call themselves. They hate the name "Aromanian"
View on Reddit #76044100

New_Accident_4909@reddit

Yup I'm saying thats their official name on census. Fun fact Nikola Kojo is of Cincar origin
View on Reddit #76044184

saebica7@reddit

We do deserve. As an Aromanian linguist, activist, public person, I want my language and culture to survive. We Aromanians are not Greeks, Albanians, Slavs or Romanians, we are an ethnic group, we speak a Romance language and we are slowly losing our last speakers. Same for Istro-Vlach and Meglen-Vlach
View on Reddit #76044971

NoReportedTaxes@reddit

you are the first aromanian, i have seen here. The greeks were happy to answer for you, haha.
View on Reddit #76048933

phoinikaskg@reddit

Being aromanian and being greek are not 2 different things for us. Every aromanian I know in Greece identifies as greek. I'm not sure how an aromanian who is not from Greece is more valid to you than the greek vlachs themselves.
View on Reddit #76056900

NoReportedTaxes@reddit

I didn‘t ask you. Yet again you gyroniggas speak on behalf of them, hahaha
View on Reddit #76058727

saebica7@reddit

I am sure I'll be attacked at some point but yeah 😂
View on Reddit #76049114

Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

Well it seems that the issue was settled in the 1920s. Should we reopen all this period?
View on Reddit #76053684

eferalgan@reddit

As a Romanian, for me is not right what Greece is doing. I understand that Greek is probably the only country that doesn’t recognize minorities. Any kind of minorities. For the Greek government they are all Greeks, which is wrong. I understand and know the special bond we have we have with the Greeks, the history and the special place the Aromanians had/have in the Balkans. But Aromanians needs to be considered a minority in order to preserve the language and the culture.
View on Reddit #76043372

ClothesZestyclose814@reddit

Greece doesn't recognize minorities? You are plain wrong. Greece officially recognized the Muslim minority of Thrace, and have a greag degree of autonomy in fact. Now, why we don't "recognize" the Vlachs as a minority? Because nobody sees them as a minority, including themselves (most importantly). They are a LINGUISTIC group, not an ethnic group. Nobody is afraid to call themselves Vlachs in Greece, and I mean nobody.
View on Reddit #76044357

bcursor@reddit

Turks in Greece campaigned for years to be not labeled as Muslim Greeks but it is never accepted by Greece despite the European Human Rights court decisions. The Greek parliament passed a law to ignore these court decisions. If a Turk became atheist how can we define him as a Muslim Greek?
View on Reddit #76049179

ClothesZestyclose814@reddit

Again with this stupidity... It's officially called the "Muslim minority of Western Thrace" and not Turkish minority because MOST MUSLIMS THERE ARE POMAKS. Pomaks are Muslim Slavs, nothing to do with Turks. Do you understand now? And nobody calls them Muslim Greeks, that's not a thing at all.
View on Reddit #76050432

bcursor@reddit

Most Muslims are not Pomaks even so Greece refuses to recognize them as Pomaks.
View on Reddit #76058399

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

aromanians live through roman times,western and eastern ,ottomans for thousend of years and unexcpeted theu disappear in greek state??? I guess why?
View on Reddit #76044775

Kooky_Resource6348@reddit

Haha yeah, it’s weird. I’m 25% Aromanian from southern Greece, and 75% Macedonian (slav). But I do not feel Greek from that side, since my grandpa and grandma who were both 50% Greek vlach didn’t feel greek, they felt vlach. Idk how that worked really. I guess their parents taught them that they’re not greek and they had to move because of Greece not accepting minorities.
View on Reddit #76045208

Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

They had to move because of the same reasons that Monastiri Greeks or Bulgaria Greeks had to move at the same time period.
View on Reddit #76053537

ClothesZestyclose814@reddit

Because they consider themselves Greeks, and nobody is learning their dialect anymore. Vlachs are no different.
View on Reddit #76045264

wegwerpacc123@reddit

It's a chicken and egg situation. Why do you think they don't learn their own language anymore? Probably because the Greek state didn't recognize them as a minority, but as Latinized Greeks, and obviously Greeks will go to a school that studies in Greek, right? Fast-forward a few decades and a language will be lost.
View on Reddit #76048732

Hackeringerinho@reddit

But you don't understand man they are Greek they don't want to preserve anything/s
View on Reddit #76057856

eferalgan@reddit

How are they Greeks if they speak a dialect of Romanian, genius?
View on Reddit #76057911

MartinBP@reddit

Greece definitely isn't the only country to not recognise some minorities. Most of Europe doesn't group people by ethnicity, not legally at least. The legally recognised "national minorities" in the Balkans are a leftover of Ottoman administrative practices and the politicisation of minorities during the Balkan Wars. In Bulgaria "ethnicity" doesn't even exist within the constitution, only "ethnic self-identity" which is protected the same way religion, sexuality, political views etc. are. I honestly think it's very messed up that some countries group people based on ethnic origin.
View on Reddit #76044897

eferalgan@reddit

I guess in Romania, due to the Hungarian minority mostly - we are handing things much better
View on Reddit #76045433

No-Championship-4632@reddit

I actually think the Bulgarian constitution is quite OK and sensible in that aspect. It was the idea of the founding fathers of the new Bulgarian state post-liberation that everyone should be equal and no ethnicity or religion would have any privileges above the others, the only exception being the language spoken in official institutions.
View on Reddit #76049435

eferalgan@reddit

We are giving our minorities that - to use their language in public institutions. They can educate themselves in their own language, even for university studies, the inscriptions are bilingual, they have shows in their languages on TV, plus other rights
View on Reddit #76053497

Lumpy-Tone-4653@reddit

Actually during the balkans waras,greece and romania made some agreemengs regarding the aromanians.sI dont remwmber exacrly the terms but romania wanted the aromanias to preserve ethwir languagae and greece wanted rkmania to back their territorial claims.
View on Reddit #76043651

saebica7@reddit

Ro and Gr had some agreements with the Ottoman empire to erase us
View on Reddit #76045416

eferalgan@reddit

I don’t know anything about that
View on Reddit #76043811

Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit

There was a vlach girl from Albania that lived in Greece who said Edi Rama is a vlach as well because, unlike Albanians, he is very tall. I found the claim plausible, yet, i don't remember why we argued for a whole thread.
View on Reddit #76057964

Hackeringerinho@reddit

Greece erased all aromanian identity. In 100 years this will be a distant memory, all will be Greek. It's already here this mentality.
View on Reddit #76057737

another_countryball@reddit

You're missing something in this; The recognition of the Vlachs by the neighboring states was done with the intent of weakening Greek influence. You must remember that the Balkans were shaped by ethnic power plays by each participating nation, and the Vlachs weren't spared from this. The Vlachs under Ottoman rule fell under the general category of Rum as Orthodox christians meaning they naturally gravitated towards the Hellenic world. Infact the issue of the Orthodox church being a tool for the expansion of Greek culture was the very reason the Bulgarians created their Exarchate. When the Valchs of Albania and, at that time, Serbia, stopped being under Ottoman rule the respective nations supported a distinct Valch identity within their own populations in order to weaken Greek influence within their countries and prevent Greek irredentist claims. To act as if the Vlachs, who have shown no interest in being distinct from the general Greek population, must, by some moral obligation, recognize the Vlachs as a distinct ethnic group would go both against the desires of the Vlachs of Greece, and the interests of the Greek people themselves.
View on Reddit #76056994

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Aromanians were used from greeks,and greek orthodox church,opressed.you have raport from romanian state.they used like a tool of greek church and state use them as "greeks" to excpand greek borders and when aromanians live. And than they opresse,not letring language,schools,cultire etc cuz now they were "greeks" in new border
View on Reddit #76057464

Turbulent-Debate7661@reddit

Im a vlah. Im also greek im not a gypsy to be a minority
View on Reddit #76054558

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

so in your head to be minority is to be like gypsy🤣 and unfortunate a big chunk of greeks think like you seeing coments.
View on Reddit #76055100

Turbulent-Debate7661@reddit

Vlahs.are greeks. I dont know what is this post about. And as a coincidence. from an Albanian again
View on Reddit #76055711

determine96@reddit

We have Vlahs in Bulgaria too, what are they by your opinion ?
View on Reddit #76056120

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Greeks too😂😂😂😂
View on Reddit #76056756

determine96@reddit

Yeah, they speak the original Greek language which nor today Greeks, nor the ancient one would understand. Vlaho-Enigma Greek.. Anyway in Bulgaria is the same to be honest, Vlahs are getting t more and more assimilated, I think most of the younger ones didn't even speak it. My mother is half Vlah and when I was visiting her parents village the younger people were speaking only Bulgarian, I didn't learned the Vlah language either, but the older people were speaking it, including my grandfather and grandmother and they weren't feeling different than Bulgarians, but I wouldn't claim that they are Bulgarians by origin.. Like I couldn't understand a word of that language, that's why when my grandparents were fighting they often used to switch to Vlah so I couldn't understand them.
View on Reddit #76057180

commissaire-67@reddit

Οι Βλάχοι ενσωματώθηκαν στο νεοελληνικό κράτος από την αρχή όπως και οι αρβανίτηες, αυτά τα περί εθνικής μειονότητας τώρα είναι εκ του πονηρού, εν τέλει δημιουργεί ένα πρόβλημα με πρόφαση ότι το λύνει. Ποίοι έχουν αυτές τις "ωραίες" ιδέες?
View on Reddit #76047363

saebica7@reddit

Obviously, a Greek propagandist. This shit "The recognision of the Aromanians is a threat to the national security" is super old and outdated 😂🏳☀️
View on Reddit #76049222

horrorwisp@reddit

Bro there is no issue to solve here. These people speak, live, feel Greek. They are greek. If you "recognised" them as a minority they'd probably get offended and they'd be right to be, since you'd be treating them as non greeks.
View on Reddit #76056710

FreshGroundSpices@reddit

There's less than 200k Vlachs in Greece. That second map is the equivalent of when Greek nationalists post maps with coastal Turkey and Istanbul being part of Greece.
View on Reddit #76042937

RemoteMeasurement10_@reddit

We have 20 Vlachs in Croatia, they are still an minority here.
View on Reddit #76046630

TastyRancidLemons@reddit

I'm just gonna kinda copy paste this, but the Treaty of Bucharest (1913) included a formal agreement between Greece and Romania that allowed "Kutzovlach" schools to continue operating with Romanian subsidies. They were shut down by Causescus regime. Greece had and still has prominent Vlach politicians, who haven't made any effort to reopen them. I do think they should re-open, but it has to be a decision by Vlachs for themselves. Forcing this on them again will just make the Vlachs vote Golden Dawn adjecent parties in response to rebuke the "you're not Greek" "accusation".
View on Reddit #76047944

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Aromanians lives for thousand of years,in western+eastern roman empires,ottoman empire but sudenly they dissapear in greek state ????
View on Reddit #76049058

DontCareHowICallMe@reddit

Why do you copy past the same 3 texts? It's weird
View on Reddit #76055348

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

The weirdest ones are th greeks one just have a look 0 logic
View on Reddit #76055586

DontCareHowICallMe@reddit

I don't understand what you are saying. The literal way, not not getting your point
View on Reddit #76056383

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

I said just look comment of greeks have a look ans see,im not here to tell nothing.you what do you want i dont understand
View on Reddit #76056494

TastyRancidLemons@reddit

Nobody said they disappeared, read my comment again and try to understand what I'm writing.
View on Reddit #76049237

wingipingi1@reddit

and what about the Megleno-Romanians? they also settled in the same region. I only know the Nantinets, the muslim meglendo-romanians from Notia (Greek-Macedonia), they was then expelled to Turkey in 1923.
View on Reddit #76042591

DontCareHowICallMe@reddit

If they were Muslims they were part of the population exchange with Turkey
View on Reddit #76055456

wingipingi1@reddit

yes exactly. But other megleno romanians are christians. only this Nantinets was muslims, those from notia...
View on Reddit #76055683

Severe-Conclusion229@reddit

do we know how high the Aromanian population could be?
View on Reddit #76054236

jim212gr@reddit

Why are you trying to create divides?
View on Reddit #76051798

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

To see a population how tolerant,civilized,see how they treat minorities.
View on Reddit #76052152

Azerate333@reddit

isnt it the same in Romania? we were learning about the aromanian minority and dialect in 4th grade 20 years ago
View on Reddit #76045042

saebica7@reddit

That was surely the Romanian Academy's propaganda to let you know we are Romanians
View on Reddit #76046206

Azerate333@reddit

we actually do have an aromanian minority here, especially in Dobrogea (50k-100k people)
View on Reddit #76051642

saebica7@reddit

I'm one of them. We're somewhere 50k Aromanians only in Constanta city, let alone the other cities and rural areas
View on Reddit #76052098

Jaded-Ad-4675@reddit

Oh no another post shitting on Greeks from jealous dudes!
View on Reddit #76050395

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

So is wrong to be tolerant,to respect people,to build bridges among people to grant people what they want,to preserve their culture,language,customs??? And why to be jealous??
View on Reddit #76051087

Jaded-Ad-4675@reddit

Dude you made a post about Greece and you wonder why I think you are jealous?!
View on Reddit #76051675

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Yes why im jealous tell me that we are tolerant,open,build brigdes with people not with foreigners but with native we are here locals with each other that balkan needs the most, to preserve the language,customs ???
View on Reddit #76052048

tortarusa@reddit

Greece doesn't recognise minorities, period. It either assimilates them, expels them, or kills them. Greece is built on such an insane level of genocide that we'll still be unpacking in a century.
View on Reddit #76051259

saebica7@reddit

Yep +1
View on Reddit #76051646

Winter-Speech978@reddit

There wont be any Greeks left if they recognize them as separate entity 
View on Reddit #76047940

saebica7@reddit

Yep 🫡😂
View on Reddit #76049149

Lumpy-Tone-4653@reddit

Most of them identify themselves as just greek so while goof in theory..i dont know if anyone is asking for this...
View on Reddit #76043742

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

i think they have totally pressur from greek state and greek sociaety for years aromanians live through roman times,western and eastern ,ottomans for thousend of years and unexcpeted theu disappear in greek state???
View on Reddit #76044645

littlecastor@reddit

Today minority languages globally tend to disappear at the fastest rate in history. People don't live in remote villages any more; we have urbanized, we have roads, radio, TV, internet. Such communities cannot remain isolated, like they did until the 19th century. Another example: In my grandparents generation, you could speak to a Greek for 10 seconds and understand from their accent which region they came from. Nowadays we all speak the same way (sometimes you can tell between north, south and Crete, but not always). No one forced me to have a different accent than my grandpa, I just got it from the TV.
View on Reddit #76049052

pinelogr@reddit

You think wrong
View on Reddit #76046211

TastyRancidLemons@reddit

>i think they have totally pressur from greek state There's Greek Vlachs in this very comment section. If you want to *really* think then ask them directly.
View on Reddit #76045041

8NkB8@reddit

Their post is pure rage-bait. "Albania good - Greece bad...."
View on Reddit #76045564

baxulax@reddit

Oh, I know who is asking for this: Romanians, Albanians, Turks, Slavs. All the neighbouring nationalist
View on Reddit #76047065

Blues4444@reddit

The Vlachs are apparently the biggest Greeks in Greece.
View on Reddit #76044174

bcursor@reddit

They recognize them as Muslim Greeks not as Turks and Pomaks.
View on Reddit #76048857

ADRzs@reddit

There are various Vlach associations in Greece that maintain culture and language. But, the Vlach population in Greece is fiercely Greek and has been such from the mid-18th century, at least. This is the basic difference
View on Reddit #76048086

paidbysoul@reddit

Arent Greeks doin same thing for Turk minority in Greece ? They speak Turkish,they feel Turkish but according to Greeks they are muslim greeks xD
View on Reddit #76047969

ayayayamaria@reddit

I don't think that today they'd like being labelled a minority. I think linguistically Aromanian should be recognised as a minority language and preserved.
View on Reddit #76042099

Blues4444@reddit

Do you extend this courtesy to the Macedonian Slavic minority?
View on Reddit #76044475

ayayayamaria@reddit

Yes.
View on Reddit #76047932

Tradeoffer69@reddit

Some do, some dont. For the ones that dont, it is important to be recognized as it is the only way to even better preserve the language and culture. So along the way, it doesn’t suddenly become a “Greek” language and culture but it remains what it is.
View on Reddit #76042954

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

i think they have totally pressur from greek state and greek sociaety for years aromanians live through roman times,western and eastern ,ottomans for thousend of years and unexcpeted theu disappear in greek state???
View on Reddit #76044626

phoinikaskg@reddit

Greek vlachs consider themselves greeks. Even the older ones that still know aromanian and live in rural areas.
View on Reddit #76043489

Third_Rate_Duelist_@reddit

That's not the only minority Greece doesn't recognize.
View on Reddit #76042327

Complex_Shine_1113@reddit

🙃
View on Reddit #76046933

TheGodfather742@reddit

There is no minority in the way that no Vlach in Greece considers themselves not Greek and something else. They all consider themselves Greek with Vlach habits and language being passed down (and not that much really since urbanization, only those who lived/live in the vlach villages, grandparents or dead now, speak the language and continue the traditions)
View on Reddit #76043965

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Seeing your coments i imagine why they dont have any officialy recognise minority or any rights for years,i garantee they have totally pressur from greek state and sociaety for years they live through roman times,western and eastern ,ottomans for thousend of years and unexcpeted theu disappear in greek state???
View on Reddit #76044469

TheGodfather742@reddit

If that's what you take from my comments when I say those people themselves don't see themselves anything other than Greeks, then your obviously biased and expecting me to say something you like over the truth, so not worth wasting my time on your post.
View on Reddit #76046322

ImpossibleNobody9265@reddit

It's all about incentives. It's very funny that since Greece doesn't recognized them they don't care, but here in Romania they were given special privileges and are very proud of their heritage hehe
View on Reddit #76045388

saebica7@reddit

Not true. We don't want money, we want to be officially recognised.
View on Reddit #76046166

Plutarch_von_Komet@reddit

Why don't you use capital letters?
View on Reddit #76043488

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

Sorry my bad i have not seen that sorry🙏
View on Reddit #76043525

Plutarch_von_Komet@reddit

I was wondering if that's common in Albania
View on Reddit #76044769

Practical-Pianist886@reddit

Yes Absolutely should be recognized History is important Culture has tremendous importance in society We all learn from each other
View on Reddit #76044375

lechef992@reddit

Albania didnt exists in 11 century? Or did?
View on Reddit #76042401

Tradeoffer69@reddit

As part of the Byzantine empire it did.
View on Reddit #76042753

lechef992@reddit

Territories did but they didn't?
View on Reddit #76042857

Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit (OP)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Albania_(medieval)
View on Reddit #76043135

Teabx@reddit

There's also the older Principality that was established entirely by Albanian nobility : [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality\_of\_Arbanon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Arbanon)
View on Reddit #76044347

mojothrowjo@reddit

It was thoroughly albanian by at least the 12th c. for sure. Albanian peoples though have been around in that area forever as Illyrian. Albanian language is also a distinct indo-european language like greek and isn't mutually intelligible by it's neighbor language speakers. Albanians are ethnically distinct from greeks and serbs
View on Reddit #76043253

Distinct_Revenue@reddit

*Latinophone Greek* screeching
View on Reddit #76044235

DraculaTickles@reddit

Journalist: Do you recognize any minority in Greece? Greek Government: you mean people under 12?
View on Reddit #76044153

Minimum-Winter9217@reddit

I'm a Greek aromanian and I wouldn't mind being a minority since I am also a Greek citizen so being seen as a minority wouldn't change a thing. It makes me sad to see the language dying and the aromanian identity losing its significance. One of the reasons I want to visit North Macedonia is because I know they recognise Aromanians as a minority. I would love to meet Aromanians there.
View on Reddit #76043915

Zekieb@reddit

The map of Megali-Valachia kind of explains why Vlachs played an important military role in the Despotate of Epirus and later the Despotate of Arta.
View on Reddit #76042935

Parking_Statement613@reddit

My grandfather from fathers side spoke vlach, and i did an ancestry test and im 6 domanian the rest Albanian- Greek
View on Reddit #76042586