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Sensible take on ebike classification

Posted by UT07@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 16 comments

Seth from Berm Peak is spot on. https://youtu.be/gjRNoVYuo28?si=LT6yYtrlk-6QFUrk

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16 Comments

stormdelta@reddit

This guy really hurt the point he was trying to make when he started off the video by victim-blaming a child for being murdered by a truck driver.
View on Reddit #76035547

REDMOON2029@reddit

if only they actually enforced and impounded the dirtbikes and people who ride recklessly, im willing to bet a majority of problems would be fixed
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Jaegermeiste@reddit

Targeting throttles is dumb. The class system as it's currently defined is extremely dumb as well. Set rules of the road, just like for automobiles. Ticket based on user behavior, not arbitrary capabilities/features of the machine.
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hezuschristos@reddit

So what does that look like? Like the rules of the road already exist, so all e-bikes should just have to follow them? As in, no sidewalks, no bike lanes, no cross walks? Bound by speed limits, have to use head lights, brake lights, and turn signals? Licensed drivers, registered and insured vehicles? I guess what I’m saying is that this isn’t, entirely, an attempt at setting rules of the road, it is an attempt to define which rules of the road which users have to follow. I don’t think it’s perfect, but for government with/without throttle is an easy delineation to set and enforce.
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Jaegermeiste@reddit

Yes, quite simply bikes should follow the rules of the road as legislated for bikes, and if there are any gaps, they can be addressed with additional legislation. Bikes aren't cars, and most jurisdictios alreadyhave a set of bike laws (which, admittedly, probably require updating). If the bike speed limit is 28 MPH (or the posted limit), then simply enforce that. What does it matter if I've got a 750W or a 7500W motor, as long as I behave? Same goes for throttles. If I'm riding recklessly, pull me over. Aside from mandatory helmets, safety lighting, and pedals, the form factor of the bike should be generally irrelevant. The behavior of the rider and their compliance with the bike-relevant rules of the road should be what matters.
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hezuschristos@reddit

I agree, to an extent, I’m curious though why the fact that a “bike” has an electric motor as opposed to gas would make it a bike? Is a moped (by definition a low powered two wheel vehicle with pedals) a bike then as well? Is a surron style bike that the manufacturer slapped pedals on a bike? Would I be able to affix a set of pedals to my KTM and call it a bike? It’s not as simple as your comment, and others, seem to want it to be. Motorized vehicles are already divided by power, form, use, and speed. Arguing that changing the type of motor somehow changes that is eventually going to result in more and more restrictive laws like this one. At least that’s my thinking.
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Jaegermeiste@reddit

Noise and pollution of mopeds aside, I'd say they've generally been unfairly maligned and are functionally bikes, yeah. For the surron, if the pedals *actually work* then sure, its a bike. Just don't ride it like a jackass and follow the prescribed rules of the road or suffer consequences.
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hezuschristos@reddit

Truly a dumb take. Good luck arguing that one…….
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Captain_EFFF@reddit

Yes, though to correct you a bit all bikes electric or otherwise should follow the vast majority of road rules if they are being ridden on the road. Lights are a must for low light riding, hand signals should be second nature, most towns and cities disallow all bikes on sidewalks anyways but if not and you are riding on sidewalks keep speeds low and always walk your bike across intersections.
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hezuschristos@reddit

Agree. But to be clear the comment I replied to seems to be indicating that all electricly powered bikes should just be considered bikes, and in May places bikes are allowed on the sidewalk. So the surron with pedals is welcome on the sidewalk by that logic. Speed limits for “regular” bikes don’t generally exist, meaning they wouldn’t be enforceable for the surron either. The all electric bikes are bikes arguments don’t hold up. Ever. And they will result in overprecriptive rules.
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thishasntbeeneasy@reddit

IMHO, putting a 20mph throttle on a bike makes it a moped (not under current definition, but effectively a motorized vehicle) - I want that to include licensing and insurance, and have the expectation that it's not just a toy bike for kids to use without much responsibility. I had a class 1 for a few years and found that to be just as safe as an unpowered bike - it doesn't accelerate hard, it doesn't exceed speed limits, and it still required pedaling. I now have a class 3 and a slightly different view of ebikes. It goes 28mph which I think is faster than most people (riders and the car drivers around me) are used to. Frankly I'd be fine with some kind of registration process for it because it does feel more like a "motor vehicle" even if it's still pedal assist without a throttle.
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stormdelta@reddit

> IMHO, putting a 20mph throttle on a bike makes it a moped How does adding a slightly different method of modulating the motor output magically turn an otherwise identical bike into a moped? And 20mph is not nearly enough to keep up with traffic in the road. Treating these as mopeds would just be more dangerous for everyone. > required pedaling What does requiring pedaling have to do with safety? Speed is the actual issue. > have the expectation that it's not just a toy bike for kids Then ban kids from them. Target the _actual_ problem instead of screwing over everyone else for no reason.
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zekerigg41@reddit

How bout hot take we build better infrastructure that seperates kids on bikes from 2 ton cars. Also just enforce the rules we have?  Seize illegal dirt bikes riding down the street don't make me have to sell the bike I bought years ago.
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beagles4ever@reddit

Not sensible - huge step backards.
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stormdelta@reddit

Yeah, I lost any respect for this guy the instant he started victim blaming a **child** for being murdered by a driver.
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Worried_Document8668@reddit

absolutely solid and workable take.
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