Why are garages in newly build houses so narrow, that a normal car can’t fit into it?
Posted by Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 364 comments
I’ve noticed that many newly built houses in Edinburgh are sold with a “garage”, but in practice it’s barely usable. A standard car “technically” fits, ( inner width are ~2.3m) but you often can’t open the doors enough to get out. In reality, most people seem to use them as storage and park in front of the garage.
Smaller cars (like a Mini) are fine, but even a fairly normal older family car (e.g. a Honda Accord) becomes impractical.
Is there no regulation or guidance on minimum internal garage width for new builds? If not, why are developers allowed to market these as garages when they’re functionally unusable for everyday parking?
Genuinely curious about the planning/building-regs side of this.
Ok_Composer2884@reddit
I agree. It’s annoying I can’t fit the car in the garage. And I don’t have a big car. I’m stuck street parking.
Paulcaterham@reddit
Cars got bigger. Garages did not
A Mark 1 Ford Granada was 179cm wide.
A 2025 MINI Countryman is 184cm wide.
A Ford Granada was considered a very large executive car.
Original-Definition2@reddit
garages did get narrower, ours is shown as 2 car wide but 18.5 feet.
JeffSergeant@reddit
But OP is asking why garages didn't get bigger. Why are they still building garages that only fit 40 year old cars?
MalpighialesLeaf@reddit
It will partly be because so few people expect to use their garage for their car. The garage is a tool shed, gym, potential home office, laundry room etc.
nfoote@reddit
I find Brits seem to vastly under value the luxury of a internally connected double garage. Walk from your house straight into your garage, into your dry, frost free car, remote controlled garage door opens and off you go without a care to the weather.
Cars stay WAY cleaner when kept overnight in a garage too.
opopkl@reddit
A double garage has the same footprint of most new homes. Even new developments, where houses cost £600k+, are built on tiny plots.
bonamoureux@reddit
I hugely value my internally connected double garage.
It's full of motorcycles, tools, half built projects and other various toys 😁. The cars live out on the drive.
whooptheretis@reddit
It does piss me off when people have a garage and yet park on the street.
TartRevolutionary970@reddit
They can't fit in the garage!
whooptheretis@reddit
Garages are usually at least 2.5m which can fit a regular SUV.
But also, don’t buy a massive SUV if you aren’t going off road.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Ours is 2.3 m wide, inside. The previous owner converted it into an office, but if it were still a garage, I would want to use it as a garage and park my car there.
TartRevolutionary970@reddit
I have no intention of buying an SUV.
I can get my car in but can't open the door.
whooptheretis@reddit
Didn't think of that. I have a double garage and whilst I can get a big SUV in there, I didn't realise that I open my door into the other bay's space!
Deruji@reddit
So build it as that and not a garage?
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
If you buy your new house early enough most of the house builders would do this for you at an additional cost.
Also those are all different uses so their isn't really a one size fits all. In what way would a tool shed, storage area or even a gym be drastically different from what a garage is.
Leaving it as a garage gives the average buyer flexibility. House builders do also sell houses that don't have a garage and have more living space in it's place so buy one of those if you don't want a garage.
ddven15@reddit
One big difference would be having thermal insulation.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
Why would a tool shed, storage area or gym need thermal insulation?
The wall between the garage and the house is insulated and in most new builds the external wall is also insulated so the door is the only part that isn't insulated.
ddven15@reddit
To not be cold.
thespiceismight@reddit
What’s the difference between the two?
funkmachine7@reddit
That would mean building to a higher quality level, a stand alone garage is able to skip lots of requirements as there not lived in space.
Cow_Launcher@reddit
Single skin brickwork with (doubled) brick piers to support the roof, for example.
Assuming the garage isn't an integral part of the house with living space above it, of course.
the-cock-slap-phenom@reddit
Which is what people want as well.
They want an empty space that you can make dirty/messy and not worry about damaging anything.
MalpighialesLeaf@reddit
You're missing the point. What a garage is is evolving from primarily the place where cars are kept to being more of a general purpose outbuilding. It isn't built as a car storage unit, it's built as an extra multi-purpose area because increasingly, people expect there to be a drive for the car instead
captain-carrot@reddit
Can confirm there is a row of 8 new-builds opposite me on what used to be a school field. They all have a garage (and double driveway) and none of them uses their garage for cars. They're just secure storage at this point.
All of their garages are in-built and narrow though and would barely fit a car in, less much else for storage.
That said, we have a detached garage that is about 1.5x the size of theirs and we use that for bikes, other storage and as a (DIY) workshop rather than for our cars. Of the 14 houses on my street with garages, only 1 actually ever puts a car in theirs. They're all just general storage.
Altruistic_Fruit2345@reddit
They could make it a room then.
NrthnLd75@reddit
They'd prefer you to make it a room at your cost once they've sold the house to you.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
They do that on other types of house they sell.....
dwair@reddit
I guess that's the knock on effect of new builds being so small. People need to utilise that extra space for living.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
Because if you build a bigger garage you need to either
a) use more land per house - The housebuilders don't want this as it reduces profit
B) reduce the internal living space of the house - Most house buyers don't want this as it reduces the space they actually use.
emil_@reddit
And there's no way to do anything about it...
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
I mean councils could put planning restrictions in place to make the garages a certain size but best case the house builders would just compromise to make the other rooms a bit smaller and the plot size a little bigger.
Given that we want more houses in this country there isn't really much intensive to get the house builders to build fewer house per development which making garages bigger would inevitabley do and i don't think there's even necessarily a demand for bigger garages.
Royal-Instruction273@reddit
Councils do most will have a minimum internal size for a garage to be considered as part of the the parking provisions on a planning application.
However the is no requirement that says that a garage’s primary use must be for parking
emil_@reddit
Yeah, yeay, yeah. God forbid we make a little less profit for the almighty shareholder.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
That's not what I said.
Also who do you think gets squeezed when the house builders, who are essentially management companies, make less profit?
emil_@reddit
I'm fairly sure you understand what "legal framework" and "enforcement" means
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
Enforce what? If a housebuilder has a plot of land there's only so much room on that bit of land to build houses. If you want house builders to build bigger houses to accommodate bigger garages they will be able to fit less of them on that bit of land.
Seems counter intuitive considering there isn't really a big demand for bigger garages and we need more houses
. Cala build about 50 houses in my town recently and most have a 1.5/double width garage yet the driveways are always full of cars. So either most people in that estate have 3/4 cars or they aren't using their garages to store cars.
Anony_mouse202@reddit
Problem is that this quickly makes developments not feasible, as land that can be built on is obscenely expensive and extremely difficult to get hold of.
Councils deliberately restrict the amount of land that can be built on for political reasons, which massively drives land prices up, so developers have to get the most out of every square centimetre.
If land was cheaper this wouldn’t be an issue, but this would require councils to stop artificially limiting the amount of land that can be built on.
Ftm-1973@reddit
They do
libsaway@reddit
Honestly, no, there isn't. Bigger garage means more space. Which means less living space, or more land, meaning more money.
Inside_Carpet7719@reddit
Nothing mate, I had a look outside, literally no actions could be taken to resolve this.
International_Body44@reddit
To add to point B, theyve already shrunk all the bedrooms so much that you cant fit a wardrobe and a bed. And they arnt going to increase the footprint of the house .
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
That entirely depends on what size of newbuild you buy.
If you buy a 2/3 bedroom yeah that's proably true in a lot of instances.
If you but a 4/5 bedroom at least 2 of the bedrooms are usually a pretty good size.
I say this as someone who spends most days looking at new build layout drawings for work.
This also isn't a new phenomenon. I live in a 4 bed semi built in the early 70s with an extension. the original 3 bedrooms are tiny and the master can only fit a double bed and a wardrobe and the 3rd bedroom can only just about fir a single bed.
International_Body44@reddit
All the 4 to 5 bed new builds i looked at recently had this issue.. honestly id hesitate to call the bedrooms habitable spaces.
We are a family of 4 and i wanted the extra space for an office..
The 5 beds felt a lot like they took a double bedroom and knocked it in half into a room that wouldnt work.
I live in a house built in 1999 now, theres room for a bed and wardrobe and an additional bonus the garden is a decent size and not just a little square..
I mean look at this beand new 5 bed: https://www.millerhomes.co.uk/new-homes/north-east/seaham-garden-village-ph1/the-denford-008
Two of the 5 bedrooms are ~6m² the "principal" bedroom is a poor size but makes up for it with a walk in wardrobe. Put a double bed in there(1.9m wide) in that 3.12m wide room and youve got half a meter to use to walk around in... what a shit show.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
So you're current master bedroom is 13.02m2. That Miller house has 11.79m2 master bedroom with a 1.84m2 walk in wardrobe so that's 13.63m2 which is bigger than your existing master bedroom.
Your bedroom 2 is 11.43m2 vs the Miller Bedroom 2 at 11.05m2 with an en-suite
Your bedroom 3 is 9m2 vs the Miller bedroom at 11.5m2
Your office is apparently 11.79m2 (seems odd to have the 2nd biggest bedroom in your house as an office) vs Miller bedroom 4 at 8.7m2
That Miller house has an additional 5th bedroom at 10.47m2
International_Body44@reddit
I have an ensuite too you know, i dont count that as a bedroom because its not.
If i bought that 5 bed, a wall would be knocked down so its a decent size 4 bed.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
I wasn't counting the en suite in the are. The walk in wardroe is work counting as it elimates the space a wardrobe takes up in the actual bedroom.
But let's not include it for arguments sake
If you 16cm of the wide and length of the Miller Master bedroom it's exactly the same size as you're master bedroom which is practically unnoticeable and you've got a walk in wardrobe on top of that.
Bedroom 3 in the Miller house is bigger than your second bedroom
Bedroom 2 in the Miller house is 0.74m2 smaller than your enormous office room. that's only 10cm off the length and width.
The 5th bedroom in the Miller house is bigger than your 4th bedroom.
The miller house has an extra bedroom.
You're talking absolute nonsense.
International_Body44@reddit
Im guessing youve not lived in an older uk house with larger rooms, and are only comparing new to new.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
The house I live in was built almost 60 years ago.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
That's a terrible example.
for starters it has a massive garage which is what started this whole debate.
A double bed is 1.9m Long. It's only 1.35m wide. A super king is 1.8m wide and 2m long
The master is big enough for a superking bed, has an en-suite, a walk in wardrobe and room for a dressing table.
It's then get 2 other double bedrooms, one with an suite.
The other 2 rooms are perfectly good single bedrooms and a family bathroom.
That's a huge house.
Warm-Net-6238@reddit
Cheap though.
I sold a 3 bed mid terrace for that, 4 years ago.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
I my country of origin you can’t call a room below 11m2 as a room, just a half room ,and even a half room should be more than 6sqm.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
Congratulations to your country of origin, it must be great living there.....
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Living there ? Unfortunately not. We have one of the worst , corrupt pm ( Viktor Orban ) and party over there. There is a proper reason why I am not living there. And even a country is small . Population is 9.5 million
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
I was well aware you don't live there.....
International_Body44@reddit
No its really not, my own bedroom is larger and i wouldnt put a king in there (we downgraded to a double from a king) you might get a superking in there if you like scraping against the walls when you move around.
It only fits if you dont account for the stuff that hangs off the end of the bed like the blanket, or you have never thought about a bedside table.
Kitchens and offices are built around a 1m² rule for space around the cupboard/chair etc for this reason. You
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
The master Bedroom is 3.12m Wide x 3.78m Long.
A super king bed, which is absolutely massive, would leave you 66cm around each side of the bed and 1.78m as the bottom of the bed. a 50cm wide bedside table would be massive and you'd still have 10cm spare. Bear in mind this if for a superking so and a kingsize is 30cm narrower.
You're current bedroom is so big that you've had to downsize your bed to a double and your complaining about the size of a bedroom that can comfortably fit a kingsize, has an en-suite and a walk in wardrobe.
Those single bedrooms are plenty big enough for an office. The smallest bedroom is 8.7m2!
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
True. For my kids I can’t even put a table , where they can write their homework and a wardrobe and a single bed into that small space .
kinkyintoxslut@reddit
We're in a new build 2 bed... Both bedrooms are 5m x 3m... So much space
DugaJoe@reddit
The trend may not be new, but it is still shit. Why can't all the bedrooms be a decent size?
ClimbNature@reddit
Literally Capitalism.
Stats_monkey@reddit
Yeah that's why America, the land of capitalism, have such tiny houses...
What a moronic take.
Aggressive_Chuck@reddit
Capitalist government planning law.
Isgortio@reddit
Because people still buy it so it must not be that problematic.
Aggressive_Chuck@reddit
Because there's only so much land with planning permission. If you want more space in a small country with a swelling population, you'd have to tear up planning law and abolish green belt.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
Honestly I would say bedrooms are on average bigger on new builds now than they were 50 years ago.
If you want 4/5 big bedrooms your going to need a massive house.
Housebuilders don't actually make as much profit as they used to. They're basically maxing out what they can see a houses for but their build costs are continuing to increase. Their profit margins have dropped quite significantly post covid.
Old_n_Bald@reddit
I used to live in a 3 bed, ex-council house. Built in the 50's. 2 bedrooms are OK, the 3rd is a box room, single bed and a small wardrobe tops.
We're now in a newbuild and the rooms are all big and 2 cars easily fit in the garage.
LongBeakedSnipe@reddit
I mean, thats not a convincing answer. The garage needs to be a certain size to ‘be’.
If it isnt said size, then the property might as well be larger without a garage
bowak@reddit
"I guess it comes down to, why are people buying these properties and then complaining. That is the main problem, as if these places were not selling, they wouldnt be made"
You have to take into account that supply is limited relative to demand though. If there was a sustained oversupply of new housing for long enough then I'm sure the small garage situation would play a bigger role with more properties with small garages going unsold, taking longer to sell, selling for less etc.
But with demand consistently being greater than supply, and almost no one ever buying a house/flat that isn't a compromise in many areas, the small garage often becomes just one of the factors people put up with as for many there just isn't a choice not to.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
Honestly i just think the culture around putting your car in the gargae has massively shifted, In my life the only people I've know to put their car in the garage regularly were people of my grandparents generation.
My parents have been in the same house since the mid 80s and have never kept the car in the garage.
no one I know uses their garage to store their car and that includes people who have built their own house with massive garages.
bowak@reddit
That's definitely part of it, but cars getting bigger is at least a partial driver in garages getting repurposed too.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
There was a Cala development built near me recently that was all big detached house with 1.5/double width garages that would be big enough to easily fit at least 1 car yet just about every house has at least two cars on the driveway. So either everyone in that estate has 3/4 cars or they aren't using the garage to store cars.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
I mean it's a garage because it looks like a garage but it's effectively being sold as a storage facility.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Depends on the material of the garage. If it’s brick and mortar, yes , you are right. If it’s metal garage, actually you can get that extra 30-40cm just not having the brick walls at the side . And you can still use as a storage , on the same size of land.
Jazzlike_Traffic6335@reddit
To be fair I'm based in Scotland and almost every new build is a Timber kit inner leaf, 50mm cavity then an outer leaf of 100mm rendered block work.
The external wall of the garage get's the same insulation as the rest of the house and the wall between the garage and the house also gets insulation in it so the door is the only bit that isn't insulated.
ButterscotchTop194@reddit
£££
What gets built is "good enough". Want a bigger garage? Pay more.
bartread@reddit
Short answer: because they can get away with it. The only way the situation will improve is if building regs require garages to be bigger... which I'd guess means passing legislation? I'm not really sure how building regs changes happen, hence the question mark.
DMMMOM@reddit
Glaringly obvious, land is money. Add up all the extra 2 feet on garages across a new build estate, you now have an extra 8 houses at half a million each. You won't get that money for the extra 2 feet on a garage.
de-tree-fiddy@reddit
Because they park the car on the driveway to show off anyway.
Belle_TainSummer@reddit
Cars got bigger, planning regulations did not. And developers are cheapass bastards. Make everyone's garage big enough, and you'll lose enough ground for an extra three or four houses across a scheme. Why do that if you do not have to? You've already seen some of the weird shapes of some places on a newbuild scheme where they cram an extra house or even bedsit just because there is barely enough space.
EvilInky@reddit
This sounds odd to me. Our house was built in 2012, and we were told the garage had to be wide enough so that someone in a wheelchair could get in and out the car.
Money-Feeling@reddit
They likely had a requirement to build a certain percentage of wheelchair homes.
The difference between a typical parking space, 2.4m and a wheelchair one is 1.2m up to 3.6m which would be a large shift for them to voluntarily build.
EvilInky@reddit
This was a house designed to our specifications. We were told planning regulations decreed that the ground floor had to be wheelchair accessible.
decidedlyindecisive@reddit
Nah this was a problem in my house built in the 1980s. Even the older cars couldn't actually use it. It's like OP said, the car could technically fit but only if you didn't want to open any doors.
WGSMA@reddit
Developers would rather sell more house and less garage but it’s illegal if the local NIMBY’s say so
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
+30cm doesn’t cause that, especially if that extra could take from your garden. I know. We built a 12sqm log cabin as a home office in our garden in London previously.
whooptheretis@reddit
Because they're already sensible car sized. If you want to buy a massive car, then you gotta find somewhere to park it.
Ok-Result8789@reddit
Not really. Typical garage is 2.5m wide, a "sensible" car is circa 1.8m wide Inc mirrors. At best that's enough space to park the car hard against one wall and open the doors on the other side. It's not wide enough to open the doors on both sides.
My house has a car port, which is also to narrow to open doors on both sides of the car. But it's a bonus never getting frost on the car, and it being shaded in the summer.
whooptheretis@reddit
Yeah I have a double garage and get an SUV in there easily. I hadn't considered that I open the door into the other bay!
mikolv2@reddit
Because UK has an obsession with cheap housing which is as small as possible. We live, on average, in some of the smallest houses in the world. Smaller than much more densely populated countries and the size of UK homes is only trending down instead of up. If people totally accept having less living space, having less parking space isn't even on their mind.
Jaded-Repair-8304@reddit
Cars need to become smaller again, we don't get more land
CyberGnat@reddit
Because most people in the UK expect to buy a 40 or 80 or 120 year old house, and tolerate standards from then too. Housebuilders are in competition with existing houses which already exist and don't require builders and suppliers to be paid this year with current costs. A 150-year-old house in London can go for millions because that's how much it would cost to build today, even if it were built for far less even after adjusting for inflation.
Some bits of old houses can be retrofitted to meet modern standards. We don't use old kitchen ranges and coal fires now. But while it's easy to take up floorboards to retrofit in modern central heating and electrics, we can't make garages much bigger. In most cases, people would prefer to use the space for living in. At which point, you don't really need to think about the space ever hosting a car. It's basically just a storage locker attached to your house for your gym stuff or the bikes.
Cars don't generally need to be kept in garages any more. Our climate is incredibly mild and doesn't really cause problems for cars in any particular direction. Garages are a lot more important if you live in deep continental climates like in Alberta, where it might be cold enough overnight in winter to stop your engine working in the morning without a block heater. In those places, old houses with small garages will end up being unappealing to new buyers when their cars get bigger as they do expect to continue using them. The result is that old houses don't stick around for as long.
Scasne@reddit
They are getting bigger, there has been a push in regulations in the last decade however developers do do tricks such as giving the width between the faces of the walls not the piers, (so they could say it is a 3x6metre garage but it's clear dims would be 2.8x5.8metres) however most people still think a house from the 1990's to 2000's are new.
I've worked for Persimmon and seen the plans for the garages of the houses being built on the development land my parents have sold.
Yeah I've seen some fun and games.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Our house built in 2020. Relativily new.
Scasne@reddit
Who by and when was the original planning approved? Yes that is one of the stupid games I've seen, they can get planning on a large development then take 10years to build it out, it's then compliant with the planning rules from when it was approved not the current ones.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Our one is as I mentioned 5 years old, but even Barratt or Miller build same size of garages nowadays as well in this area. I am just thinking , if it’s not suitable as garage, don’t call utas a garage. Call it like a storage room/workshop or anything else . ( not you literally, but builders)
Scasne@reddit
No that's fair, honestly I get the frustration, as I said, there has been a push but they play games as I said, say arguing it's wider in most of the garage and ignore the piers halfway down the garage.
So thought I would check the plans for a scheme I'm working on and it's showing single garages at a clear width of 2.9metres between the piers and so 3.125 between the faces of the walls themselves.
I would also advise people to never buy a house that was completed for a Christmas sale date as they always liked to have a lot waiting as that tends to be when it's easy for couples to take the time to go visit them, and therefore I think they are more likely to have been rushed for that date.
Cela111@reddit
It became socially acceptable to just dump your car on the street, and people got attached to using it as general storage space.
Complex_Specific1373@reddit
Land costs money, and the amount of money needed for land got bigger
johnathome@reddit
I guess the same reason parking spaces haven't gotten bigger, someone needs to change the law and neither party seems to be bothered.
APiousCultist@reddit
5cm seems a negligence difference. I can't see 2 inches being the difference between getting out of the car or not. A foot, maybe.
adammx125@reddit
The point is a modern mini is a ‘small’ car whereas a mk1 Granada, while still smaller than the mini was considered a very large car at the time. Of the largest cars 40yrs ago are still smaller than the small cars of today you can see where the size issue occurs.
Newreddituserw@reddit
You forgot to mention that builders have to add a "garage" as per regulations
essexeasy@reddit
Isn’t it the same thing with standard parking spaces in car parks? Cars got bigger/wider spaces didn’t.
Takklemaggot@reddit
Not just new builds.. check this from 1981..! 😆
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxh32RKfu4mJxuEiaCl80qmUQ2Gqrhl3uF
Objective-Seesaw-649@reddit
God I hate the Countryman so much it's a terrible MINI
LegSpinner@reddit
The change is even for the same model! The Fiesta went from 1.55m wide (1985) to 1.8m (1995) to 1.9m (2005). That's a good 35 cm increase in width. Garages are often 2-2.2m wide so you suddenly go from having about 20 cm spare room on each side to not being able to get out at all...
cosmic_monsters_inc@reddit
6 whole cm? Need a doublestack carhole for that.
Electrical-Injury-23@reddit
Exactly this. We bought a 1980s house. Our Polo just fits through the garage door. Our 4wd, not a chance.
firthy@reddit
Username checks out - buy a Caterham if you want to park it in your garage
jooosh8696@reddit
Better yet, a Peel. Fit the whole family's cars in a single garage
WiseAssNo1@reddit
They are not garages. They are furniture storage areas, because houses nowadays do not have enough cupboards and wardrobes built in them.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Okay, question then : Why someone needs an insulated garage ( yes it is, with 20-30 walls , roof insulation , as our one built, ( we are the second buyer) , instead a log cabin or shed? Even metal garage could add the extra space , because their walls are narrower, therefore the extra 30-40cm can be there.
WiseAssNo1@reddit
Sorry I have no idea. They are not even garages, they are lock ups. Not fit for purpose really.
opopkl@reddit
Wait until you see the size of the gardens.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
We have nice ~80sqm garden.
When I grew up we had 1000sqm, that was way too much. Lots of work with it , I didn’t like that.
But this one is fine for barbecue , 2 extra sheds and for stargazing and sitting on the garden furniture .
opopkl@reddit
That's 10x8m. It's quite big compared to some new developments.
LLHandyman@reddit
Most people don't park their car in the garage as insurance is more expensive
Cars have got considerably bigger, garages haven't got bigger to match
International-You-13@reddit
Lots of `garages' on new builds aren't garages at all but a small storage room designed to provide the aesthetics of a garage, but simply be the place where you store a small lawnmower or garden furniture.
Embarrassed_Status73@reddit
The UK is a clusterf*ck of epic proportions when it comes to planning and enforcing regulations. It is SO biased to developers doing what they want (and the consequences of them not bothering are so minor) that the non-affluent are screwed over, time and time again. The reason is obvious, those who collude with the developers don't have to live in the shitholes they build and neither do the developers.
Deat69@reddit
I mean I used to have this fight with my mother 10 years ago, she would call an outbuilding a garage and my response would be like "Right, go clear the crap out and try to park in it, can't fit a vehicle in it, its not a garage"
spidertattootim@reddit
I've worked at three planning authorities in England as a planning officer and we've always had minimum dimensions for parking spaces and garages.
HOWEVER if a house has enough external parking spaces of the minimum dimensions then we wouldn't have cause to require that the garage also meets the minimum dimensions.
DoKtor2quid@reddit
Seems a bit pointless then, calling it a garage and not a 'shed' or 'workshop', if it's related to outside space and not what it actually is (or should be). And thanks for your clarification!
spidertattootim@reddit
Just because us planners won't count it as a garage doesn't mean it can't function as a garage if your car is small enough or you want to use it to store motorbikes.
DoomscrollerUK@reddit
It feels like the solution here should be that house builders should only be able to describe a house as being “with garage” if it meets minimum dimensions. Although preferably its needs more than that as I figure buyers will see a garage looking space in a floor plan and assume it’s a sensible size.
spidertattootim@reddit
I don't think it really needs a solution apart from people using their common sense to check whether the garage on any particular house fits their car before they buy it.
Even if it meets the minimum dimensions in planning policy, that's no guarantee it will be big enough for every individual's specific car or future car.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Before we bought it , it was already converted to a room ( insulated roof and walls, double glazed door etc). So we knew that we could not use it as a garage . But I just wondered around this area, this who didn’t converted , still parking outside. Diferrent scenario if our’s wasn’t converted. My expectation is park there.
DoomscrollerUK@reddit
I means you’re right. But equally OPs description sounds believable and it wouldn’t happen if house builders weren’t able to get away with it.
spidertattootim@reddit
What do you propose would prevent housebuilders 'getting away with it' ? Not describe it as a garage in their sales details? Well that's great for the first person to buy the house, but after that the owner can describe however they want.
Or alternatively... caveat emptor.
Brickie78@reddit
Presumably the reason they're putting undersize garages on at all is to advertise "with garage" (are there targets of houses woth garages to hit, like the "affordable" target?), much as hotels stick a couple of exercise bikes in a cupboard and call it a "gym" so they can fulfil that particular requirement on the star rating checklist.
JustGhostin@reddit
Not really. This isn’t America, most people don’t buy a house with a garage to park their car in it. A garage that’s a ~0.2m too narrow to get a car in is still a great addition to a house for storage
zhorakovsky@reddit
Is it an addition, though? Rather an awkwardly sized room carved from the building footprint for advertisement purposed? Similarly to “3 bedrooms” being often smaller than normally proportioned 2 bedrooms in other countries.
thespiceismight@reddit
Is there a minimum required number of spaces? On my street alone, the old commercial garage, village shop store room and public toilets have been converted into holiday accommodation without any parking spaces - instead they are presumably expected to use the general street.
These have been built previously, and just last week the church hall had a planning application put in to turn it into 6x studio holiday lets. Again, no parking except free for all on street parking- in a tourist town.
verykindzebra@reddit
Interesting. What counts as "enough" external parking spaces?
spidertattootim@reddit
It will vary from one council to another and they will have different policies depending on how remote a site is from services and public transport, and the size of the house.
E.g. on the outskirts of a town, a three-bed house might be expected to have two parking spaces, whereas a one-bed flat in a town or city centre would probably not be expected to have any.
Interestingly, most authorities have minimum parking space numbers but others have maximum standards to try to discourage car use.
tulki123@reddit
Annoyingly we had a maximum of 1 applied (no visitor parking) for two bed apartments. Their justification being we live in a city so it’s not needed…. Fine except it’s a tiny city with almost no public transport and most people don’t work in the city. None of my neighbours work anywhere local but can’t afford to move closer (and social family reasons to be in the city).
They then put a parking prohibition with £100 fine on the street parking to really help us enjoy city life
Cela111@reddit
Do planning authorities have an actual deterrence plan for pavement parking? I see so many new build areas with houses that have 2 driveway spaces and on-road visitor parking bays, but people just start parking on the pavement before the development is even finished.
Worldly_Science239@reddit
I guess from the planning authorities point of view, enforcing 2 driveway spaces is their deterrence. What more can they do?
People have 2 carson average and the planning authorities insist on 2 driveway spaces. If people want to then use the pavement, either legally or illegally then planning authorities are not the ones that you'd report them to.
kcajjones86@reddit
That's the most annoying policy ever. Get the cars off the roads and driveways and into a garage.
spidertattootim@reddit
Why? Garages are more expensive than driveways and take up more space to accommodate the same number of cars insisting on garages would just make a lot of houses more expensive than they need to be.
arfski@reddit
Upvoted as you are about the only post that has answered OP's question rather provide an "interesting" anecdote or alternative use suggestion.
Modest_dogfish@reddit
I agree with you OP. As far as homes go and what the expectation of a “good home” is - UK is definitely not up there.
Eg if you look at our neighbour Netherlands - modern flats are spacious with high ceilings and roomy. Ample parking with modern design.
I personally think UK homes are very average when compared to others around the world…
mordhoshogh@reddit
Very few of the people I know who have ‘garages’ use them for car storage. They mainly seem to be storage these days so probably built with that assumption
P-l-Staker@reddit
I wonder why though... might have something to do with the fact that they're old damn small!
Rootes_Radical@reddit
Modern cars don’t rust away while you look at them. It’s not so important to protect them from the weather.
Jesterstear99@reddit
A lot of modern cars leak like sieves (e.g. Aygo/108/c1) and it is vital to keep them covered from the rain or the carpets start to go mouldy and the windows are permanently misted up. You can chase the leaks- the rear lights are favourite but it is a never ending battle.
A carport would be ideal.
P-l-Staker@reddit
They do, actually. Winter road salt is the biggest culprit. You just can't see its effect because it happens underneath. And it's not just weather protection, but theft and crash protection.
treelover164@reddit
Surely a garage isn’t going to stop the underside of a car rusting from road salt though
P-l-Staker@reddit
Never even hinted that it would. All I said was that modern cars do still rust. You just don't see it.
Rootes_Radical@reddit
Not to anything like the same extent. The steel used for cars in the past was often hilariously bad.
Garaging was almost a necessity if you were trying to look after a car, it’s very much a luxury now reserved for old cars and extremely flash cars.
P-l-Staker@reddit
You'd be surprised. The difference is that nowadays, we don't use steel for visible things.
AdhesivenessLost151@reddit
I miss my garage.
My car stayed cleaner for longer and I never had to scrape ice or snow of it.
You couldn’t open both doors when it was in there though. The passenger had to get out before you drove in and then you had to park to one side. It was still very snug.
Rob1965@reddit
Back when I had a usable* garage (it was a tight squeeze but still possible to get in the drivers door) it was such a joy never to have scrap ice off on cold mornings.
(* Come to think of it, I think it was my 1980’s car that was smaller, not the garage being any larger than normal.)
LaSalsiccione@reddit
It’s more because paintwork on cars these days can easily withstand the weather but they used not to be able to.
If my car will survive just find outside why would I not free up my garage space for other things?
ddven15@reddit
Why is the garage as an area still being built then?
LaSalsiccione@reddit
Because people want a big shed?
ddven15@reddit
Do most people want that? How do we know that they wouldn't prefer to use the space for something else?
LaSalsiccione@reddit
You can use it for whatever you like mate, that’s the point
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Why would not they build then a big shed/log cabin?
LaSalsiccione@reddit
Why would they use different materials than what they’re building the rest of the house out of? More effort, more money.
Besides, the house design already exists and it’s easier to just carry on in that fashion isn’t it.
Personally I like the idea of a big shed that’s connected to the house and has a very big front door that’s easy to get big items in and out of. I’m sure many feel the same.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Actually , building a ‘garage’ , or shed , which is not part of the house, but few meters away is much cheaper from this type of material than brick and mortars.
ScottishPixie@reddit
I mean, just personally we have 2 motorbikes so the garage is very useful and we specifically looked for a house with garage when buying. Some of us still want them. All the modern developments near me are mostly garageless homes, with one or two styles with garage dotted here and there, and often those are built as "double" garages so presumably would be large enough for a car. That's just my visual anecdote of what I'm noticing in my particular area though.
DarknessIsFleeting@reddit
My last rental place had a garage. It was stated in the rental agreement that I was not allowed to park my car in it.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that 9/10 garages never have cars in them.
No-Pack-5775@reddit
It's funny though because 9/10 of the houses on a nearby estate are with a garage and it eats up so much of the ground floor. Many of them are double garages.
I assume the data shows that people want a garage, but definitely don't want to park in it!
QSBW97@reddit
I've recently been looking for a new house, we want a garage, simply to build a home gym. No intention of ever parking my car in it. Although, the place we found is 3 minuets walk from a good gym. So no idea how I'll use it now
Username_goes_here_x@reddit
I think people are starting to prefer to erect insulated garden buildings now instead of garages for home gym / offices as garages make terrible gyms in winter. But you're right, people use them for home gym equipment, tool storage, bike / motorbike storage etc. why waste good floor space when most houses with garages also have driveways to leave your car on.
In terms of being 3 mins from a good gym. I could live 3 seconds from a good gym and I would still prefer my own. Nothing beats being able to do the exact exercise you have planned at the exact time you need to do it. I'll never go back now I've got my own squat cage.
Odd_Net_951@reddit
Also may be cheaper for them to install a garage. I doubt the bother to plaster them or put heating in them. I know some new builds around me never put a door to the house inside it.
Probably a mix of garages making houses more or the same level of attractive, and garages being less expensive to build, without reducing the sell price = ++profit
No-Pack-5775@reddit
Good points!
I believe some house builders will upsell an internal door to the garage, but not all.
I suspect you're right, a combination of kerb appeal and cost cuttings gets them the same profit without the expense of fitting out another room.
Monkfish786@reddit
I used to do put the car in the there , then realised how much a ballache it is , I work shifts as early as 3am so opening the electric door is noisy so I didn’t want to disturb my neighbours.
Now it’s a small gym for me and some storage like 95% of others use it for extra dumping space.
Infinite_Use_6214@reddit
What kind of sick person parks their car in a garage?
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Not sick persons. But almost everyone who has a garage ( my friends and relatives)
Neither_Set_3048@reddit
Because there are so many objections to new houses being built on fields, that land is at a premium in supply and price. So houses are smaller and have to have smaller garages and they are for storage and not cars.
benjymous@reddit
I'd imagine it's as much that modern cars are considerably wider than cars made in earlier decades, and house builders would have to make the living space smaller to accommodate a bigger garage, which many wouldn't use to actually store a car anyway.
zhorakovsky@reddit
Make the building 1m wider, no?
benjymous@reddit
Which means they can't fit so many houses into the same plot of land
Altruistic_Fruit2345@reddit
They haven't updated their designs in decades.
DMMMOM@reddit
New builds are all smaller than they were 60,40,20 years ago, so no reason to think the garages would be bigger.
AvadaBalaclava@reddit
Here in Milton Keynes, they don't count garages as parking spaces when checking if a house has enough parking, because so many get bricked up used as an extension. So now most houses only come with a car-port as that is covered as a parking space.
Thecentrecanthold@reddit
If you can afford a house and garage, you can afford a smaller car.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
With 3 small children even if I afford a house with a garage, ( just for your info, we recently bought it, doubled the size of our London 63m2 house , but valuation price us equal ) but can’t afford a car where the car seats don’t fit. Yes , I can buy a 2009 Mini Morris which could fit into a garage , but it’s a four seater, so someone from the family stays at home. Btw , I have an old accord. So , really? Are you serious? I didn’t buy a suv , or any huge car .
Thecentrecanthold@reddit
Glad you didn't buy an SUV, but you chose to have 3 kids.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
That’s true, but it doesn’t explain why any garage is built on a way if it’s not suitable to park a car in it. If it’s not suitable for that, don’t build it as a developer . Simple as that. If I need a shed for stuff , I will build it. For much cheaper price as a garage cost . ( as we did in our garden in London previously )
Otherwise_Koala4289@reddit
I think garages are increasingly not seen as a place for parking your car but more as a general storage place. We don't have one, but thinking of the people I know who do, they just use it for storage, even those for whom their garage would be big enough for their car.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Okay, I understand that many cars simply can’t fit properly. But do you mean garages are not actually intended to be used as garages?
A garage still has real value: protection from rain, humidity, frost, bird droppings, tree sap, and general weathering , all of which contribute to corrosion and wear over time. That’s especially relevant in wet climates like we have here.
quenishi@reddit
I think you're overestimating the effect of the environment on modern cars. Unless you're parked under a tree, not going to get sap on your car and a lot less chance of bird poo. And if you clean it off promptly it isn't a big issue.
People who live near the coast can get salt corrosion, but as an inlander the things that have made us change cars haven't been weather-related and our cars have always lived outside.
My second car I parked outside, had very minimal cleaning for ~2 years. Was in an accident, car got repaired, looked brand new after repairs. Cue jokes about it being the first time it had a wash, lol. I did keep the windscreen, lights and numberplate cleanish most of the time....
Growing up in the 90s it was a lot more common for cars to rot out and paint to noticeably fade. These days cars are left out day after day and they're still the same colour.
DarknessIsFleeting@reddit
I know loads of people with garages. I don't know anyone who regularly parks their car in it. It just is not what people do.
I agree with you, but you and I are in the minority.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Where I originally coming from ( Central Europe) garages for cars. Main reason to protect from the elements of the weather, like hailes, snow , and reduce corrossions.
FrauZebedee@reddit
Yeah, I moved from UK to S Germany, and now have to use my garage for my car. We get -10 to -20 C, metres of snow, and huge hailstones, plus all the animals that nibble on stuff. My garage is from the 80s, and I have a polo sized car, it’s fine, my partner’s much bigger car still fits but anything bigger wouldn’t. Newer houses here have largers garages though. Even in the UK, I preferred to keep my car in the garage, frees up parking space for visitors, and much safer than being on a double parked road.
My mum lives in a new build in the UK, with a carport. For two cars, and it is so narrow that my car (which used to be hers) barely fits between the central pillar. She has an A1 so it’s ok, almost noone on her development parks in their double carports, though, they just block the road and take the visitor spaces, and store their junk in the carports. They don’t have proper attics or cellars for that stuff though, which most houses/apartments here have.
Anyway, if it’s sold as a garage, I want to use it as a garage, not as an extra sort of room.
Mundo7@reddit
great, but I’d 100% rather more living space then save my car from a little bit of rain and snow that does fuck all to it now that cars can cope with it
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Our garage is separated from the house. If a car can’t fit it, doesn’t not advert it as a garage. Create an extra room or something, but don’t call it as a garage if it’s not. Maybe my asd speaking.
Mundo7@reddit
right, can't fit your specific car that you've chosen? just because you've bought a big car doesn't mean it's the garages issue!
Mumique@reddit
I'm a Brit and agree with you. The advertised space isn't 'utility room', it's a garage, to drive a car into, with a garage door etc.
Wish we had a garage. But to be fair, my in-laws who had a garage...did not really use it as a garage. I don't know why.
DarknessIsFleeting@reddit
Do you have more living space? I have never known anyone to have more living space because of a garage. They are all just piled up with junk.
libdemparamilitarywi@reddit
If I didn't have the garage some of the junk would have to be stored in the house instead, which would give me less living space.
EntirelyRandom1590@reddit
We put bicycles and other stuff we never use in there.
spidertattootim@reddit
If I could fit my car in my garage, I still wouldn't use it for that purpose, because
I suspect the vast majority of people feel the same way.
Otherwise_Koala4289@reddit
Yes, I think they aren't seen specifically as car storage by people these days. As I said, even people I know who have big enough garages to do it don't store their car in there.
People seem to just see them as a space for storage, second fridges and freezers, gym equipment and so on. So it makes sense developers have noted that and don't cut into living space to make garages big enough for modern cars.
eairy@reddit
Changing use isn't the problem, the problem is the misrepresentation of the space by calling it a garage. If it's not big enough to fit most modern cars, then they shouldn't be allowed to call it a garage. It's mis-selling.
Otherwise_Koala4289@reddit
I don't think it is, since I don't think most people even think of garage as meaning somewhere to store a car any more tbh
eairy@reddit
garage
/ˈɡarɑː(d)ʒ,ˈɡarɪdʒ,ɡəˈrɑː(d)ʒ/
noun
noun: garage; plural noun: garages; noun: garage rock; plural noun: garage rocks; noun: UK garage; plural noun: UK garages
It's the literal meaning of the word. Just because you don't think it is, doesn't unmake it.
Otherwise_Koala4289@reddit
Yes, famously the meanings and understandings of words never changes over time.
eairy@reddit
Colloquial usage doesn't alter the mis-selling aspect.
Otherwise_Koala4289@reddit
Agree to disagree.
Comfortable-mouse05@reddit
They aren't built for massive cars to go in. Loads of cars are a bit too big for this country
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Sorry , but I don’t think that a 16y old Accord is a massive car. Nice saloon, but with 1847mm width it doesn’t give too much space in a 2300mm wide garage to get out from the driver’s seat. I just don’t understand things what I think miss common sense . ( same thing in the house’s layout too) . Anyway I am person who want to protect her own car , so sooner or later carport will be installed .
Comfortable-mouse05@reddit
Cool
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
Lol. A mini is not a small car. They are huge
deathmetalbestmetal@reddit
No they're still really quite small compared with other cars; people are just shockingly bad ad judging the size of a car. Yes cars have inflated in size (mostly due to safety in the case of things like the MINI), but the MINI remains at the small end.
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
As someone who regularly drives both a Mini Cooper, a fiat panda and a merc c class, the Mini is much more similar to driving the merc
deathmetalbestmetal@reddit
What a wonderfully helpful example of what I was talking about. You've convinced yourself that the MINI is 'huge' and similar to a C Class, but the cold, hard fact is that the MINI's footprint is much closer in size to the Panda.
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
It is. It’s the nearly the same size as the merc
deathmetalbestmetal@reddit
You know that the actual measurements are readily available, right?
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
Yep, and I looked them up after the very first time I drove the car to see the comparison
deathmetalbestmetal@reddit
Of course you didn't, or you'd not be here talking complete nonsense.
What years are the three cars?
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
The Mini I referred here was a 2009 Mini Cooper has a width of 1683 mm.
ImportantMacaroon299@reddit
Planning laws give minimum size for garages, bedrooms and bathrooms/en-suite. Also applies to parking available and road width.Builders want to maximise profit. So maximum number of houses built on plot of land they have. As others said these could change be changed but would increase housing costs so isn’t. Same as happened with new rules in uk with additional green plans. Add solar means min they have to do,,add car ev charging means add outside waterproof standard plug to side if parking next to house otherwise don’t need to add anything
Conveth@reddit
As an aside, I worked near Huddersfield and was from a major DIY chain. A new build estate needed some sinks delivered - standard low-mid range stainless steel ones. When I delivered them to the site I was asked to go to the show house as it was also being used as the dales office.
Everything in that house was smaller than usual.:
The sofa was a 2 seater, but had 3 smaller cushions on it. The 'double bed' had 2 smaller pillows on it - everything in that shoe box home was an illusion to make you think your 25 year mortgage was money well spent.
Oh and the garage, yep, no car could fit, so it was 'artfully' set up as a workshop/potting shed!
bluelizard92@reddit
My new build garage is 3m by 6m.
Broad-Raspberry1805@reddit
There’s less need to keep cars in a garage nowadays as they don’t rust like they used to (apart from Ford Transit vans but they wouldn’t ever fit in a garage anyway).
Altruistic_Fruit2345@reddit
But then why not have another usable room? It's because modern houses are too small in general, and largely a joke.
Broad-Raspberry1805@reddit
People want a garage to store their junk, that’s what mine is used for anyway - unfortunately.
Altruistic_Fruit2345@reddit
If rather store my junk in a room.
deathmetalbestmetal@reddit
But it depends what the junk is for. All of the stuff I keep in the garage is stuff that would be dramatically less convenient kept in a room versus a garage which has a nice big opening to the outside.
Agnesperdita@reddit
Cars also got better in terms of paint and finish, and do many more miles these days so they are replaced more often. They don’t suffer unduly from sitting on a driveway and are not seen as the huge investment and responsibility they once were.
My Grandad’s Austin Princess was his pride and joy. It was washed and waxed every Sunday. He had it from new, carefully maintained it, and drove it until his death. He would no more have left it on the drive overnight than he would have left my Granny out there.
deathmetalbestmetal@reddit
This isn't true - the average age of cars on the road is getting older and older. Newer cars are much, much better made and last much longer so people don't need to change as often.
igiveup9707@reddit
So they can sell a house with a garage and technically a garage space to put another car.
Y1ink@reddit
I remember telling a colleague it’s a pain getting the car in and out of the garage. He looked at me slightly shocked ‘who uses a garage to park the car’.
I thought am I being crazy, then thought surely that is the whole point of a garage.
Today my garage is full of crap and I can’t get my car in. But I think the general usage of garages these days is storage. My entire estate I don’t know anyone who parks in the garage.
Also strangely whilst applying for car insurance online and trying out different options I found out that ticking the option ‘ car is parked in the garage’ increases the cost. I’m guessing people used to lie as it used to be cheaper or the risk of damaging your car going in and out of the garage was more.
willow_dreamly@reddit
Most people end up using them for random junk anyway, so maybe it’s just easier for them to call it a garage on paper.
ember_sparkmist@reddit
In the UK it’s weirdly normal to treat them like storage, but honestly it makes zero sense if your car is more expensive than half the stuff in that shed.
DarkNinjaPenguin@reddit
A car is fine outside in the rain. The Christmas decorations, table saw, pillar drill, bicycles, skis, paddling pool, 3D printer, tools and paints are not.
Least_Actuator9022@reddit
It's funny but I had a similar conversation just yesterday.
At one point, people with garages kept their cars in them so that their cars didn't rust.
Then manufacturers stopped making cars that rusted.
So people started parking on their driveway and filling their garage with junk.
Now, nobody puts cars in a garage any more, but everyone wants a junk room.
buzben@reddit
My fairly new house has a double garage but annoyingly it's 2 separate garage doors so still a struggle to get 1 never mind 2 cars in rendering it useless for cars. I'd like to replace the 2 doors with 1 wide door so I could at least get 1 car in (the middle), but they put 2 separate lintels in which would mean a costly rebuild of the front of the garage to accommodate 1 wider lintel and door!
MrTibee@reddit
Why are rooms so small you barely can fit a double bed in it, why are ceiling so low can’t put a ceiling light on without hitting my head in it, why they build 3-4 bedroom houses with only one parking space available, why are some road so thin two cars barely can pass eachother?
To save money for the investors, they know we will buy it anyway.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
I can’t agree more!
Unusual_Entity@reddit
Cars got bigger. Garages didn't, because nobody wants to put a car in a garage anymore. Given the choice of dedicating that amount of space to storing a car or storing a bike, tools, paint, random bits of wood and assorted other detritus, most people will leave the car outside.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Am I nobody? My friends, my relatives, who not just put their car into garage, but if they don’t have then rent one? If you have a garage, where actually a car really fits, you still have a choice to park your car there or use it for something else . But if the garage is so small , you can’t use it for the original purpose , just pilling your things over there.
Consistent-Pirate-23@reddit
Someone near where I used to live built a bunch of garages at the back of some houses. Went to look at one for my dad but his car wouldn’t fit. The huge vehicle was a mk2 focus and the garages were so new they hadn’t even had the doors fitted yet
arnie789@reddit
Also, the local council had a policy that a house with a small garage meant the owners would not buy a car and use local transport. Utter madness I know. Say hello to Telford council around the 80s.
Hot-Efficiency7190@reddit
Some houses built nearby recently solved this with a car port and large shed instead of a garage.
WGSMA@reddit
Because a) planners require them, even though Developers would probably rather not have them, and b) cars have exploded in size in the last 20 years.
Psychological-Cut449@reddit
Most people I know don’t even bother to put their cars in a garage. A lot of people would probably trade garage size for increased house size too.
No-Translator5443@reddit
They think everyone still drives a classic mini or Austin
kcajjones86@reddit
People in the UK are stupid and despite having consistently wet weather they don't care about properly storing (most likely) the second most expensive item they'll ever buy (after a house).
So, no one complains that they can't fit their cars in the garage. Cars have increased in size but garages have also shrunk due to greed from property developers.
Mundo7@reddit
properly storing an object that is now built to last outside in all weather, and can withstand pretty much anything?
yeah I’ll value the space in my house more than the minute chance of a little bit of rust or frost on my car 😂
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
How do you protect then from hails, falling branches in this windy weather and so on? And on top of that : rust.
Mundo7@reddit
hail? doesnt do any damage!
falling branches? - how often does that happen?
Rust - it's a fact of life, most cars these days are pretty much impervious to it
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Hail doesn’t do any damage? Really ? Just an example
Mundo7@reddit
yes, and the 99.99% of other times it hails?
kcajjones86@reddit
Wow that's some crazy thinking. Modern cars absolutely rust, just the same as older cars. Car manufacturers have no intention (nor insentive) to make cars last forever, as you're implying. They absolutely do rust and that's the biggest killer and car manufacturers know it. They get zero money from the second hand market so they love for people to absolutely believe this and spend billions to fool people like you.
Mundo7@reddit
yeah I’m really fooled by not caring whether my car which is outside most of the day anyway, will rust overnight instead of using loads of extra space in my house
Wd91@reddit
You don't. You accept the risks and move on with your life.
Cars are better protected from any of those things than the stuff people put in their garages.
kcajjones86@reddit
This is exactly what I'm talking about and why cars cost so much. People accept high insurance and a new car every few years.
Wd91@reddit
I can promise you, the reason insurance is so high is not because of hailstones and falling branches.
Most people aren't getting a brand new car every few years, they're buying 2nd hand cars that haven't ever been kept inside a garage but yet are somehow perfectly fine.
kcajjones86@reddit
Of course not. Insurance is so high because people bump into cars parked outside. More than 70% of people in the UK have had their car damaged whilst parked. Imagine if they put their car in a garage? A good proportion of that would be prevented.
As for the second hand market, sure people buy used cars but so many people by PCP and cars being "fine" for one person look like a shed to others who care for their cars and don't leave them outside in all weathers.
Wd91@reddit
How many people have garages but not driveways?
epiDXB@reddit
Source?
Solid-Injury-8881@reddit
Garages are glorified sheds i have had 2 new builds over last 20 years, both were drive through garages. First thing we did when we moved was added another garage door to the rear.
OneCheesecake1516@reddit
They have been like that since 1970's
capps95@reddit
What’s ridiculous is this is pretty standard on all mass built new builds, yet when I submitted planning permission to modify my garage slightly the council insisted I make the garage longer to accommodate a car, despite the house having space for five cars on the driveway…
Life-Squash2666@reddit
New build owner here. We have a single garage and it's 3.2m wide. Can put my racking down one side and still get my Cupra Formentor in too.
Inside_Lifeguard7211@reddit
Because everything is specified to the bare minimum that they can get away with rather than providing nice, useful and enjoyable houses.
I_love_my_tech_toys@reddit
Before we bought this house we checked the garage size to ensure my XJ6 would fit....
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
When we bought our detached house , the garage has been already converted to an office space . Which I don’t regret ( but still thinking to build carport over the driveway ) But in this area I see many detached houses, some of them with a built in ‘garage’ ( some of them as separated building), and it’s really rare if it’s converted, usually just used put rarely used things into that, or used as a storage for stuffs. Meanwhile these houses have gardens , sheds could fit into that, or even their own attic space. So it not common sense to me, why are these built as a garage , instead of creating a room there , which in this case could be more meaningful.
FancyMigrant@reddit
This had been the case since the 90s.
sidneylopsides@reddit
Out of curiosity, I've just gone to measure the garage of our new build, they're all within a few mm of a nice round number.
Door is 2.2m wide
Length from door to rear wall is 6m
Maximum internal width is 3m.
Minimum internal width is 2.85m
The documentation said the garage is built to an industry standard design, so I'd assume it's somewhat common.
The door itself is 2.3m wide, but the hinge mechanism is partly inside the frame, spring covers.
Ftm-1973@reddit
Yeah there are regs, they may vary area to area mind. We build in Northumberland and ours have to be min 6x3m internally.
EcoNorfolk@reddit
Because - people aspire to have a garage. The developers want to maximise profits. They know that aspiration often beats practicality. They also know that thanks to strong lobbying building standards haven’t progressed as they should So the bottom line is they make them too small because they can. The real kicker? They can because aspirational mugs still buy them.
ncminns@reddit
Who actually puts their car in a garage 🤷♂️
Odd_Net_951@reddit
Probably a mix of garages making houses more or the same level of attractive, and garages being less expensive to build, without reducing the sell price = ++profit
With a garage you don't plaster them, you don't put flooring in, may not even put heating in, and that's about it. Dirt cheap compared to a normal room. I know some new builds around me never even put a door to the house inside them.
Also most people will probably opt to convert it later on, so more business of the construction industry later on. Though I can't see house builders caring about that fact. Good for the local contractors though (unless the house builders charge extra to convert it before handing it over).
Stunning-Pudding-514@reddit
Because just like with car parks they are still going by standards set in the 60s/70s and nothing has been updated for modern cars. I had to work on some Persimmon homes years ago and the garages were bigger than the garden, kitchen, lounge.
TartRevolutionary970@reddit
The answer is because humanity is inherently stupid.
We could increase a standard garage size so that a normal car can use it. But we don't.
We can increase the size of standard parking spaces for modern cars but we don't.
We thought Smart Motorways were a great idea until lots of people were killed and we remembered why the Hard Shoulder exists in the first place.
You can talk about planning regs, housebuilder profits, and building footprints all you like. But these are human constructs, in a society where common sense is rare and Governments blunder through ever more nonsense. Ultimately, inherently stupid.
Boboshady@reddit
A combination of things - putting a bigger garage on would mean less space to use for other things. You might think "oh it's only another 50cm" but over the course of an estate, they all add up to an extra couple of houses.
Secondly, developers know not many people actually use their garages for their cars. Literally the only person I know who kept a car in their garage was my dad, who kept his hobby MG in there. Everyone else uses them for storage, including me.
So it's about making it 'technically' usable, whilst keeping it as small as possible. You're definitely not getting out of both sides of a car in a modern garage, but if you park up tight to the wall on the passenger side, you can generally get out of the driver side. I couldn't, because I have a big car and I'm really fat...but a normal car - \~1.8m - and a 'normal' person would manage.
I don't believe there is any national guidance on minimum width, though every local authority controls their own so they'll be some guidance locally at least.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
The problem is not that everyone can’t get out, but even only the driver can’t get out, because it’s so narrow .
Boboshady@reddit
Get a narrower car, or hit the treadmill :)
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
I know I know , why should I gave a birth for 3 children . As dinks we could fit into a narrower cars, not a saloon. 😜
OkPhilosopher5308@reddit
Sister has a house that was built in 1996 - you would have just about got an original Mini in it and been able to open the doors, it’s like the standard size for a garage is stuck in the 1950s.
raquetracket@reddit
Wait, you’ve actually seen a new build with garage???
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Yeah, Gilmerton in Edinburgh is full of them for example. Newly built properties with a glorified storage shed marketed as a garage.
FarRequirement8415@reddit
Im of the opinion that garages are just a junk room now.
Most modern houses I've seen have nowhere near enough storage space. Its just an overflow for all the crap you accumulate over time.
If you can't fit a car in..
Ok-Chest-7932@reddit
I don't think I've ever met anyone who puts their car in the garage though. Except rich people who could afford excess garages anyway.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
I have seen all of my friends, and relatives who has a garage parked their cars there. But I grew up in Central Europe .
Soggy_Amoeba9334@reddit
I know of a fairly new build where they just bricked up the garage door, added some windows and now have an extra room.
Mywords74@reddit
Same reason cars don’t fit in parking spaces in car parks anymore. They still use the same size measurements from the 50’s and 60’s cars are so much bigger now. It’s a ridiculous oversight
dan_in_his_own_way@reddit
We bought a 1970's property and I couldn't even park my smart car in our garage. I could get it in there, but good luck opening the door.
DancingWilliams@reddit
UK homes are marketed on the number of bedrooms, then whether detached or not, then garage. It doesn't matter if the bedrooms are too small for a bed, or the garage doesn't fit a car, or that detached means just enough space to scrape a bin through. Until houses are marketed on sq meters, the house builders will continue to "build and pretend".
Flat_Development6659@reddit
Cars are more secure nowadays so people just leave them on their drive. My garage is a gym, hardly anyone uses a garage as a garage anymore, it's a gym, man cave, storage area, workshop etc etc.
throwpayrollaway@reddit
My dad knew all about 1970s and 1980s rust bucket cars and always said driving a hot wet car into a garage was worse than leaving it outside. He wasn't happy about me putting my car into a garage until it became clear where I lived at the time the bigger problem was scumbags nicking the radio.
EfficiencyRecent4528@reddit
This is why we have underfloor heating in our garage. We like to spoil our cars.
Flat_Development6659@reddit
Possibly so but since 95% of most peoples time is spent not driving I'd have thought your car would be more likely to get wet being outside.
epiDXB@reddit
There is. They need to be at least 2.3 metres inner width.
Current-Code-2554@reddit
Former planning officer here. Many councils will not consider garages as part of a property's parking allocation as the space can typically be used for other purposes (such as ancillary storage). As such, minimum or reasonable parking standards are unlikely to apply for internal garage spaces if reasonable parking allocation can be accommodated on a driveway.
Kitbashconverts@reddit
My garage was big enough for two cars (it's offices now) but the garage doors (2) were the size of a small car and I couldn't get in ...
Sufficient_Creme2872@reddit
When the houses were built a normal sized car would fit in a normal sized garage. These days a lot of people insist on having a front room on wheels and opt to leave it on the drive so the neighbours can look at it. Cars are getting way too big in my opinion
bars_and_plates@reddit
Because people are buying the houses anyway.
It sounds like I'm being a smart arse and it's too simple an explanation but realistically this is how markets work.
The problem comes about when 10% of customers are discerning and 90% just accept whatever is thrown at them.
Monkeylife247@reddit
As many have said already, the requirements for single garage sizes hasn't changed for decades. This coupled with the face that housebuilders will also do the minimum possible for the maximum profit, means we have a perfect storm of useless garages on new houses. Added bonus for the housebuilders... they don't have to provides as many parking spaces then also, as these unusable garages count towards the total requirement. Not an architect so, this may be outdated from the time I learned about it.
Character-Bat-5081@reddit
My garage is just serving as a store room. It's big enough to park 2 bikes inside, though.
Formal_Produce3759@reddit
Because we're an anti car society and are trying to force everyone to use public transport.
zonked282@reddit
these mental Yank conspiracies becoming commonplace in the UK is so cringe
Formal_Produce3759@reddit
People believing obvious sarcasm is so cringe.
zonked282@reddit
Sarcasm - apparently
Obvious? - No
feesh_face@reddit
That guy was being sarcastic? Bet he gets taken seriously all too often and thinks people are humourless 😂
Formal_Produce3759@reddit
Of course it is, who the heck would actually think that?
Mundo7@reddit
people not able to do sarcasm correctly are so cringe
Formal_Produce3759@reddit
Ok, Mundo... I get it, you completely lack any sort of humour.
feesh_face@reddit
Would you prefer we force everyone into cars? That’s basically what the US does and it’s caused horrific urban sprawl, amongst other numerous negative impacts.
As it is, driving’s support systems and negative consequences are subsidised hugely by taxation on all. As it becomes more expensive it becomes less tolerable to the average person, because it is a massive luxury that we’ve become accustomed to and its real costs catch up.
Even the Netherlands couldn’t really be called an anti-car society, and the proportion of non-car journeys compared to us is wildly different.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
I am a big fan of public transport , and since I moved to the UK 16 years ago, last year was the first time when we bought a car. For daily basis we usually ride bikes when we go to the school with the kids ( actually until when the the cold temperatures kickes in ) But even the the bikes can’t be moved to the garden, if our car is on the driveway,
What I still find impractical is the overall layout. Even on the driveway, once the car is pulled all the way up to the house, there isn’t enough space to open the doors properly and get everyone out. With kids, the routine ends up being: stop part-way down the driveway, get the children out, then pull the car forward to the house.
FOARP@reddit
Not just new houses but nearly all UK garages are too small for an actual car and always end up being converted. You're always just better off having a driveway and using the space for living in.
This is simply downstream of UK houses being small, plus specs being for older cars which were smaller.
Additionally, modern cars aren't nearly as prone to rust as they used to be, so unless you live somewhere where your car will be continually exposed to salt (e.g., next to the sea), or you own a classic car, there's little point.
BluebirdDai@reddit
My partner and I have just moved into a new build, and I was surprised but also happy that I managed to get her Volvo XC60 into our garage. Not only that but there was plenty of room around it to get out easily and for more storage space.
Probably down to what developer you buy from.
TheTruth_329@reddit
https://youtu.be/ygXAhJMrA9M?si=J31jrtMBYwtPHQtq
Useless_or_inept@reddit
Apart from cars getting bigger, people's priorities have changed too.
People now have much more stuff which needs to be stored indoors somewhere. Boxes, tools, xmas decorations, the pallet of 500 bogrolls that you bought at Costco. it's not the 1970s any more, so you don't have to worry about your Morris Marina dissolving into a pile of rust flakes after 3 weeks of rain.
Some houses do have bigger garages but it's just not important to most people. Builders are responding to demand (within the constraints of the planning system &c)
notneb56@reddit
My house was built in the 90's.
I have a Mini Countryman, the one before the latest model. The mirrors don't fold, but I can still reverse into my garage and do so more or less every day. It's a double garage - 2 standard doors with a pillar between. So it's the same as getting into a single garage.
I will admit that the space inside the garage makes it much easier to get out of the Mini on one side. But getting out next to the wall isn't difficult.
Before our latest one, we had a different 90's house. It had a standard single garage. My wife would park her small Seat in the garage without a problem. I parked on the drive and dealt with the de-icing, etc. I was also the one who drove off to work first.
In the 90s, I worked in the car industry. My wife always fancied a Discovery. For her birthday I managed to lease one at a very good price. A 90's Discovery was a big vehicle, albeit nowhere near the size of the latest ones. I got home early and managed to hide it in the garage. It was a very, very tight fit. That was the only time the Disco was kept undercover. My car went in the garage, but somehow I still kept the task of de-icing ...
I like parking in my garage. It reminds me of the happier times ... before my lovely wife got a rare and incurable cancer. She was gone in 6 months.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Aww, such a nice story about that car . Sorry for your loss.
TheDawiWhisperer@reddit
because someone did the maths and worked out that a garage in name only adds more to the value of the house than another large room downstairs.
personally i'd prefer the room
Shove2001@reddit
My local authority has for about 6 or 8 years insisted they are min 3.0m x 6.0 internal. Quite generous...
egidione@reddit
Greed is the simple reason
terryjuicelawson@reddit
It is a token effort that people don't mind as few actually keep a car in one regularly. If they do it would be some kind of long term storage, so being comfortable getting in and out isnt an issue.
OrganicMojo@reddit
.
MDL1983@reddit
Renault Clio in my garage, I think I climbed out the boot.
Krakosa@reddit
Cars don't rust the way they used to so there isn't really a need to keep them in a garage so most people have transitioned to using the garage as essentially a large shed. Given this most people don't care whether the garage can fit a car, only whether one exists to store stuff in.
DoKtor2quid@reddit
Modern day minis are no smaller (narrower) than other saloon cars; you still won't be able to open the door. They are motorbike garages and spider houses, pretty much. (and also list other random shit).
Djinjja-Ninja@reddit
They're not even that much narrower than a SUV.
Here's a current gen Mini compared to a VW Tiguan.
The Tiguan is only 8.6cm wider.
The modern mini is 31.6cm wider than the classic mini
imperfect_and_tense@reddit
Weight: 1615 (mini) vs 1598kg (tiguan)!
Djinjja-Ninja@reddit
To be fair its an electric mini, while the Tiguan is ICE, I just went for the latest generation of both.
The previous generation ICE Mini was 1275kg, or if you flip and use the ID.4 (which is vaguely the electric equivalent of a Tiguan) it's 1966kg.
imperfect_and_tense@reddit
Ah. Thank you.
Exita@reddit
One of the big selling points of my house was a garage you could comfortably fit two cars in and still have space for other stuff.
KeyHuckleberry2560@reddit
Planning policy for individual local authorities will have parking standards, including minimum space requirements.
Might be worth checking the dimensions against the property's marketing material ( if they are different you may have a valid claim against developer) also consult local planning authority to see if their standards have been met.
Questjon@reddit
You make more profit squeezing 10 houses with tiny garages into an estate than you do 8 with good size garages. It's just another quirk of our terrible disfunctional housing market.
fussyfella@reddit
Anti car, out of date planning laws. The planning guidance for garages has not changed in decades, so if you apply for planning permission you will likely fail if the garages are a sensible size. Attempts to change the planning guidance fails because it gets vetoed by the "we do not want to encourage cars, people should use public transport" lobby.
ezzys18@reddit
Blame the local authority for not putting in place guidance and requirements for this. They have ability to do this
Forte69@reddit
Bigger garage = fewer houses built = less profit
EntirelyRandom1590@reddit
Whisper it quietly....
The garages aren't for cars.
GeeEyeEff@reddit
Because new build houses are built to be as small and close together as people will tolerate in order to increase the number of units and maximise the profit per development.
Same_Seaworthiness74@reddit
House price goes up if theres a garage. Even if the garage is as big as a cupboard it'll still be a selling point
yetAnotherRunner@reddit
Cars have expanded in size in all directions. (which IMHO is a major mistake)
The planning rules likely haven't kept pace.
ci_newman@reddit
My house is 4 years old and my single garage is big enough for an Octavia with ample room for additional storage around it.
The small garages are because the developers are maximising the number of houses they can get on a plot.
Builders with better reputations actually build usable garage spaces though and mine is used for car storage.
made-of-questions@reddit
So so important to look for reputable builders. The difference is night and day and has wide impact for a large proportion of your life.
The problem these days is you can't trust reviews much with so many bots. Or you have the opposite problem that only disgruntled people leave reviews giving you the impression that they're worse than they are.
A good source I found was YouTube videos done by professional snaggers. When we bought our house I must have watched 20 hour long cases, where they go to actual customers and highlight the issues with the property. After a while you get to see a pattern when it comes to builders.
Remarkable_Figure95@reddit
I think people stopped putting cars in garages decades ago. Now it's a junk room with a silly door.
tired_watchman@reddit
No update to legislation compelling developers to build more appropriately sized garages. It's a tick box exercise as far as planning permission is concerned. Developer submits plans to local council for approval, planning officer looks at it, does garage meet safety rules and minimum size? Yes? Rubber stamp go ahead. The planning officer won't set the minimum limits and a developer isn't going to use one brick more than they have to since over a whole development that could amount to several entire houses of material and site space.
BillWilberforce@reddit
The building regs for internal garages dates back to the 1950s. When cars were a lot smaller.
If you want a garage door that has a useful size, then it will have to be made bespoke. Which dramatically drives the cost up.
adamneigeroc@reddit
Varies from council to council, my local one specifies a minimum size if they’re to be counted towards parking provision.
Think it’s 6x3m internal.
If they aren’t counting towards parking provision then there’s no minimum size
quite_acceptable_man@reddit
The answer to 'Why do housebuilders always...?' and 'Why do housebuilders never...?' is the same:
Because it's cheaper, and because they're allowed to get away with it.
Another_Random_Chap@reddit
My parents bought a new build house in 1968, which included a garage. That garage was used to house the family car for years with no issues at all, and they were family cars like an Escort, Marina etc. When my mother came to change her car a few years ago she really struggled to find any car that would fit because they are now so wide. Even a Fiesta wouldn't fit.
FIREBIRDC9@reddit
I remember reading somewhere that the legal definition of a Garage in properties in the Uk is still based upon the dimensions of a Morris Minor Saloon.
No idea if its true or not.
McFigroll@reddit
People like to say they have garages but don't actually use them for cars.
c_dug@reddit
It depends a lot on the builder and house type - we're a small developer/contractor and I don't think I've yet built a house with a garage you couldn't park a decent size car in, but then we're typically building 3 to 5 bedroom detached houses on small developments of 2 to 10 houses - we're aiming to build a spacious and high-end looking development and a big garage fits that image.
As a matter of curiosity I just flicked through the drawings for the last 10 houses we've built across two different developments, and all garages were between 3050mm and 3500mm. Wide enough for any modern car.
The likes of Redrow and other large builders are trying to cram 250 houses onto one site, adding an additional 10% footprint to each house to build an equivalent size garage to those I am building might knock 15 to 20 houses off of the overall site, and there is no way on earth they are going to make up that difference in the sale price of each house.
cgknight1@reddit
General storage and also (and they don't say this) they expect many people to convert into rooms.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
Yes this is what we have as well . A ‘home office’, in a converted garage. But we have sheds ( even in a small garden / and next to the house ), as we had log cabin for same purpose when we lived in London. It’s just so annoying that I can’t move the bike into the garden when the car is on a driveway, because not enough space . Bins also needed to move elsewhere, because otherwise we can’t pull it out.
Postik123@reddit
Does make you envious of the USA where they typically have a garage big enough for 2 cars plus all of their bikes, tools, etc and still room to move around inside.
Appropriate-Bag5290@reddit (OP)
I am just expecting around 2.8-3m width. Not an American style. If the driver can get out from the car, it’s enough to me.
Postik123@reddit
Most new houses have a covenant saying you can never convert the garage into a room. However that might be at the request of the council / planning office rather than the developer themselves.
Any_Crazy_500@reddit
There’s a massive new build next to where we live and there’s a house that’s converted theirs into a room. And to be fair, whenever we walk through the garages that we see open are always stuffed full of anything but a car, so the storage in the actual house must be nixxy.
cgknight1@reddit
It is at the council request generally.
However where I lived, someone got one through so they had to let everyone else do it.
I kept mine as a garage.
romeo__golf@reddit
“Garage” doesn’t legally imply parking. Where the garage is being counted as a parking space for planning purposes it needs to be larger and often local authorities require it to be detached rather than integral to dissuade the use of the garage as additional living space.
A garage is just a low-cost way of providing additional square footage (upstairs, because most Brits mentally value a home based on the number of bedrooms) and the average buyer never considers it as a parking space.
vijjer@reddit
Additionally most people don't store their cars in garages anymore and invariably the house gets extended into this garage space.
fergie@reddit
Isn't it more that cars are getting bigger rather than garages getting smaller?
PitBullCH@reddit
Newer houses are also smaller than old - it’s the developers squeezing the maximum properties (and the maximum profit) from new estates.
Roofless_@reddit
I have a big/long Japanese import saloon and it fits in my new build garage but its very tight with other things around it.
Moved from a house with a double garage and workshop space so its a bit of a down grade.
Darloboy@reddit
I can get a car in my garage, but they narrowed the gap between houses too much so I can’t get a car to the garage!
Rinlow05@reddit
Or is it that cars are getting bigger on average?
Postik123@reddit
I don't know what the minimium required dimensions are for a garage. I assume there is one though, because where I live as part of the planning the developers have to allow for X amount of off road parking based on the house size. For example a 4 bedroom house would need to have 3 off road parking spaces. They class the garage as one of these parking spaces. Which is kind of daft because nobody keeps their cars in the garage. The car would barely fit even before you put everything else in there like your lawn mower.
Any_Being_567@reddit
Same reason carpark spaces are too small for modern cars; standards are all based of average car size from 1970’s.
cross_stitcher87@reddit
I don’t think the minimum sizes of garages have been updated in a long time in the planning regulations - and most builders are going to do the minimum unless they are aiming for the luxury end of housing
wingman0401@reddit
Very simply, they're not designed for cars anymore.
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