Even a first gen Viper is really not that scary on modern tires. Sure it doesn't have TC and you're going to spin if you disrespect it, but good tires and a bit of caution go a long way.
Nah man, I've witnessed in person 3 complete loss of controls that resulted contact of a body panel and something else for 1st gen Vipers. Aside from Nissan products, it is by far the most common car car I've personally witnessed get into accidents. Given how rare they are, that's all sorts of fucked.
It's a shame about the g37s, they're a good value, decent handling, fairly reliable, and I was thinking of getting one if it wasn't for 1 how easy and often they're stolen 2 I didn't want to have to deal with the insurance for it
I graduated from my 98 v6 to a 2006 GT in like 2019 at the age of like.. 22? It came with poopy skinny tired and if it wasn't for the traction control i would have wiped out on an on ramp 20 minutes after i bought it.n i really didnt gove it a ton of throttle. That was sort of on me, though. After this I immediately bought a wheel and tire package with some 295s on the back wheels. After that you would honestly have to try to crash that car. It had a great diff that made it super easy to do a controller slide in the wet, and even from a dig you had to be stupid or actually trying to break the tires in a normal driving situation.
The only thing that could make them "hard" to drive is the snap over steer, which almost got me exactly once.
I think after somebody gets a rear wheel drive car, it's not a terrible idea to go to an empty lot and see exactly what it takes to break traction, and how the car behaves when it does. By the time i sold that car i could easily turn on to an EMPTY road and keep the car sideways for a while or do some l o n g & s l o w slides in the snow / rain.
It's an easily accessible car with some decent power to the rear wheels, which can be disastrous for the uninitiated in a panic correction situation.
Very accessible car to terrible drivers.
I have a lot of seat time in S550 Mustangs, and tried out the S650’s. Soon as they got IRS in 2015 they got really good, same with the 6th gen 2016+ Alpha Camaro. Great control, feedback, handling.
Really want a cheap ecoboost Mustang as a drift car. And since 2011 most if not all Mustangs come with trac-lok LSD’s or if performance pack equipped will have Torsen. Whereas most of the new Nissan Z’s are open diff.
> same with the 6th gen 2016+ Alpha Camaro. Great control, feedback, handling.
The 5th gen had IRS. The Alpha platform is great because it's a class above everything else in its price range. It's a luxury platform that was designed for Cadillac first, so it uses a lot more aluminum and light weight materials than other similarly priced cars.
A clapped out Mustang GT is the cheapest way for a Monster-addicted, broccoli-headed, 17-year-old fuckboy whose brain has been rotted from too much vape and too much TikTok, to get access to a RWD V8 making 300+ horsepower. These kids would wrap a Radio Flyer wagon around a tree. The car did nothing wrong, it just fell into the hands of the wrong drivers.
It can be easy if you know what you’re doing.
If you’re a 20 y/o schoolboy who thinks he’s the king of the road just because his dad bought him the car, then yeah, say hello to the first lamp post.
Yup. There’s like a base driving level of
“Car starting to go sideways, instinct is to countersteer and be careful with gas/brakes”
That like 75 percent of the people out there just don’t have.
Once you’ve met that very basic standard, there’s a whole bunch of difficulty levels. But first you gotta be able to not crash something the instant it starts going sideways.
> “Car starting to go sideways, instinct is to countersteer and be careful with gas/brakes”
That's not instinct, that's knowledge/experience/training. Instinct when something is suddenly moving in a way it shouldn't is to immediately try to stop the movement; in a sliding car that means hitting the brakes, which leads to
> That like 75 percent of the people out there just don’t have.
Because they panic and operate on instinct.
You've basically encapsulated why, as someone who learned to drive on a TTB Ford, I think the current "anything other than a fully independent suspension CUV is a deathtrap" mentality is a bit overstated.
In the right situations it can. Timestamp 1:40
https://youtu.be/w7IWVPDguoU?si=5I0NpbaxITwvjUXI&t=100
PS4S with reasonable tread, standard sport mode, systems left on. No clue if the car or my countersteer saved me when I got tunnel vision chasing the x3 and didn't see the gravel.
> By no means was I using a grippy tire. I think at the time I was using a used set of Michelin pilot sport all season 3s.
In fairness, these are far better than the OEM trash that the non performance models came with. I had a 2016 V6, so far less powerful than your GT, and the stock tires would slip and slide easily if I was being silly. I upgraded to 355 summer tires all around and never again had any questions about grip. I think it's safe to assume that the average 25 year old mustang driver isn't investing in quality rubber.
So yeah it is mostly a problem with people being stupid, but the actual OEM tires also suck.
Agreed, it was wholly unnecessary, but made the car much more stable during spirited driving. I did not want to be associated with the mustangs leaving car meets crowd lol.
Depending on which gen we're talking, not really. It's mainly people putting it up at 6k, and sending it into the nearest tree outside their local Cars and Coffee.
Gonna copy pasta my response from r/mustang
Same progression here - 15 GT PP -> 6MT Supra.
The barrier to entry on a mustang is significantly lower, attracts low credit score behavior…There’s gotta be 20x GTs on the road than Supras.
It’s far more likely to be someone’ first high HP RWD rig after driving FWD/AWD/ shitbox. Same folks will perpetually drive with the nannies off, cheap tires, no real experience with limit handling. They run out of talent very quickly, hence the deserved memes.
The Supra is more nervous/twitchy but I’d argue the composure and feedback thru the chassis is light years ahead of the GT. Skill cannon car. You’re gonna find Supra owners at track days and auto cross. You’ll find stang owners at takeovers and late night meets showing off the CJ pony parts catalog.
With all that said, I miss how rowdy the 5.0 gets.
Not a hot take at all: in North America it is too easy to get a license and waaaaaay too difficult to lose it
And when you look at the stats, the most dangerous vehicles per capita aren’t anything sporty; they’re typically the massive trucks & SUVs that everyone “needs”, but even on r/cars, if you suggest that maybe millions of people don’t need a half-ton crew-cab to go to the McD’s drive thru ina city, you’ll get a lecture about how you hate freedom
Its almost as if millions of mallcrawlers are negatively impacting people….
Just days ago in my City, a 81 year old killed a woman while reversing his Ram, but sure, let’s do everything possible to coddle the egos of society’s most fragile snowflakes.
Because statistically (read: not emotionally) the vehicles in the US that are deadliest to others aren’t Mustangs or anything like that - the list is dominated by pickups and SUVs
Ok... let's talk stastistics then. No better source than insurance actuarial tables.
https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/auto-insurance/insurance-losses-by-make-and-model
Vehicles with the lowest medical payment claim rates
1. Rivian R1T 4dr electric 4WD Large pickup -67%
2. Volvo XC60 plug-in hybrid 4dr 4WD Midsize luxury SUV -61%
3. Chevrolet Corvette convertible Midsize sports car -53%
4. GMC Sierra 2500 crew cab 4WD Very large pickup -53%
5. Ford Bronco 2dr convertible 4WD Midsize SUV -52%
6. Volvo XC90 plug-in hybrid 4dr 4WD Midsize luxury SUV -52%
7. GMC Sierra 3500 crew cab 4WD Very large pickup -51%
8. Land Rover Defender 110 4dr 4WD Midsize luxury SUV -49%
9. Chevrolet Silverado 2500 crew cab 4WD Very large pickup -48%
10. Ram 2500 crew cab SWB 4WD Very large pickup -48%
Vehicles with the highest medical payment claim rates
1. Mitsubishi Mirage G4 Mini four-door car 231%
2. Lexus ES 300h hybrid 4dr Midsize luxury car 144%
3. Kia Rio Mini four-door car 143%
4. Nissan Versa Small four-door car 138%
5. Kia Forte Small four-door car 124%
6. Mitsubishi Outlander Sport 4dr 4WD Small SUV 124%
7. Chevrolet Malibu Midsize four-door car 122%
8. Dodge Charger HEMI Large four-door car 119%
9. Chrysler 300 Large four-door car 116%
10. Nissan Sentra Small four-door car 114%
I’m not saying that these monster trucks are endangering their occupants, I’m clearly saying that they’re endangering everyone else. So yes, let’s talk IIHS statistics https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/latest-driver-death-rates-highlight-dangers-of-muscle-cars:
Highest rates of other-driver deaths
Deaths per million registered vehicle years, 2020 and equivalent earlier models, 2018-21
Vehicle name Vehicle type Death rate
Ram 3500 Crew Cab long bed 4WD Very large pickup 189
Dodge Charger HEMI 2WD Large car 164
Ford F-350 Crew Cab 4WD Very large pickup 147
Ram 2500 Mega Cab 4WD Very large pickup 145
Kia Optima Midsize car 134
Kia Rio sedan Minicar 133
Ram 2500 Crew Cab short bed 4WD Very large pickup 122
Ford F-250 Crew Cab 4WD Very large pickup 120
Dodge Charger 2WD Large car 105
Ram 1500 Crew Cab short bed 2WD Large pickup 104
Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD Midsize SUV 103
Kia Forte Small car 96
Ford F-250 SuperCab 4WD Very large pickup 95
Nissan Altima Midsize car 94
Chevrolet Blazer 2WD Midsize SUV 93
Jeep Gladiator 4WD Small pickup 93
Dodge Challenger 2WD Large car 91
Dodge Journey 2WD Midsize SUV 90
Jeep Renegade 2WD Small SUV 90
Jeep Wrangler 2-door 4WD Midsize SUV 89
Bodily Injury Liability is claims submitted when you are at fault for another persons injury in a collision, not your own injuries.
Your link still has the same Charger at P2, ahead of all the 2500 class trucks which is typically the highest class people buy without commercial purposes. Only losing out to a DCLB Ram 3500. There are plenty of small vehicles in that list too, this list claims a Kia Optima is more likely to kill you than a Ford F-250.
Moral of the story? Stay away from Stellantis owners
I graduated from my 98 v6 to a 2006 GT in like 2019 at the age of like.. 22? It came with poopy skinny tired and if it wasn't for the traction control i would have wiped out on an on ramp 20 minutes after i bought it.n i really didnt gove it a ton of throttle. That was sort of on me, though. After this I immediately bought a wheel and tire package with some 295s on the back wheels. After that you would honestly have to try to crash that car. It had a great diff that made it super easy to do a controller slide in the wet, and even from a dig you had to be stupid or actually trying to break the tires in a normal driving situation.
The only thing that could make them "hard" to drive is the snap over steer, which almost got me exactly once.
I think after somebody gets a rear wheel drive car, it's not a terrible idea to go to an empty lot and see exactly what it takes to break traction, and how the car behaves when it does. By the time i sold that car i could easily turn on to an EMPTY road and keep the car sideways for a while or do some l o n g & s l o w slides in the snow / rain.
It's an easily accessible car with some decent power to the rear wheels, which can be disastrous for the uninitiated in a panic correction situation.
> but yet, it doesn’t have the same reputation the mustang does.
The type of person who is doing burnouts and losing control from a cars and coffee is more likely to buy a mustang than a Supra.
People judging the owners not the car.
Mustangs didn't have independent rear suspension till the last 10 or so years. They used to handle very bad, and were overall cheaply built but they've gotten better every generation.
A 2015 Mustang GT is an incredible car, but general reputation will always lag behind.
I think the fact that meme started when they had live axles is a factor. Unless I'm mistaken by 2015 they had a independent rear axle which is a way more modern and controllable setup that the old school live axle
I don't think this is a hot take, but I also think this attributes the stereotype to the car itself rather than the *actual* owners of the stereotype - the drivers.
Mustangs aren't inherently unwieldy beasts, and I don't think it's the *c*ar itself that has the reputation. It's the drivers - people that have either never driven a car that size, with RWD, with that much power, or it's their first MT and they're over-confident.
It's Mustang ***drivers*** that have the reputation for not being able to ***control the car*** rather than the car itself having a reputation for being difficult to operate. The vast majority of people in the compilations you reference aren't like you; they didn't baby the car, they didn't take it easy on the acceleration, they didn't only begin to experiment with the car until *after* they felt confident.
This is because Mustangs used to have live axles all the way up until 2014 when they upgraded to independent rear suspension.
Mustangs with the solid rear axles were good for drag racing, but bad for handling which resulted in its reputation.
New mustangs are better and so this stereotype is going away.
TLDR: things change.
The reputation used to have some merit, to be fair. Mustangs prior to the S550 used to have a solid rear axle and it was quite easy for someone to unsettle the car and end up in a ditch if they ended up hitting a bump at moderate to high speeds (or if they drove like an idiot).
Fellow Supra owner here; a number of supras have an issue with alignment being poor after shipping to the states, I’d double check yours, apparently much of the skittishness often seen with Supras is tied to that.
FWIW, mine feels incredibly well planted all the time.
There are plenty of other cars that are harder to control and put the power down but the Mustang is on cheaper side to both buy and make some absurd power with, so you see it more.
It really is an easy car to control, I’ve had 5 of the coyote cars from bolt ons to boosted and they are fairly easy to keep down provided you have good tires. That said if someone is dumb or doesn’t know how to drive you could lose control of one just like anything else easy enough
Most likely it's inexperienced young drivers buying a powerful RWD used car that has bad tires.
A few years ago I bought a used Toyota 86 and hit the gas a bit too hard while making a turn while shortly after it rained. And well, I got four new tires for the car the following week.
The Mustang is the most popular performance car in America, powerful, plentiful, and has a very low barrier of entry (or at least it did). Means a lot of young men would buy it and they’re more likely to do dumb shit or not have experience driving a car like it.
You won’t see Supra or M car with that reputation because they’re either more expensive or rare or both. Plenty of Mopar and other cheaper more powerful RWD drivers crashing, but none of them are as popular as the Mustang and it’s kinda gained notoriety for it, thus more attention when they crash.
At the end of the day, even if the Mustang was a little "spicy", none of these accidents would've happened if they were driving normally.
Even a 90s Viper won't betray you as long as you don't mash the pedal like an idiot.
I mean, I almost spun one on the test drive and I had tc on and I'm not an idiot so...
But it's mainly cos it's powerful and cheap. And cos people turn the tc off.
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