It's not illegal unless you log the time as sleeper berth. If you log it as off duty, there's no regulations regarding where you get your adequate rest.
My understanding is yes, it's illegal. DOT law is clear on requiring a sleeper if they have to take a break. Does it happen? Yes. I've seen guys sleeping in day cabs before. I think it’s normally a situation where the day cab driver simply ran out of hours where they normally would not have. I live in Michigan and every so often I see job ads for runs going from Detroit to the Toyota plant near Lexington KY and back in a day cab. Can it be legally done in a day cab? Yes, if everything goes perfectly as planned. But you’re right to the wire with nothing to spare. Do it, don't do it but if you get stopped by DOT for an inspection, they're going to want Hotel Receipts if there's no sleeper and you had to go off duty in another state. Normally in this situation you would go off duty, not in a sleeper birth because there’s no sleeper birth. But if you live in one state and you're 500 miles away going off duty, it’s a red flag for DOT and they’re going to want hotel receipts.
it happens a lot. i’ve towed a lot of trucks that’re just 26ft. boxes without sleepers, they just sleep on the bench seat or something. if it’s not illegal it should be illegal, shame on companies that will treat people that way
I would adamantly disagree that it SHOULD be illegal. We have enough laws, and if a man wants to sleep in a box truck or a literal box or anywhere else, assuming it's his property, cool, let that man live. As far as a company promoting this, I could get behind that being regulated. They should provide a safe and reasonable work space and if a driver job is otr that space requires sleeping facilities. Maybe implement some guidelines on what constitutes a bed thats not a seat. If they don't have sufficient units, run the trucks local until they do.
that’s my point. if it’s your truck do whatever you want but it should be illegal to force someone to sleep in not a bed. often under 26k lbs, often overlooked. needs regulating.
I've seen just that. A guy brought me some pump parts in a van that had a door between the cab and box. Sleeping bag and pad on the floor in front of the freight. Looked uncomfy
I run sprinter van work, and I have a hammock that I can set up and take down in <1 minute. Unless I have a full set of 3 pallets, I sleep there. I can't imagine a box truck driver with a door in the bulkhead couldn't do something similar.
I seen one the other day that had at least 8 feet in the front of the box. A second door into the freight area. Wouldn't be bad for a percentage of hotshots
Yes, I'm 100% willing to sleep in a box truck with no sleeper and a hotel on weekends! Are you willing to pay me the $275,000/yr salary required to get me to do that!?
Not legal at all. The carrier is required to give you a place for quality rest time. Either a sleeper berth or hotel. Guaranteed OOS if you get pulled over and get caught marking SB when you don't have one.
They’ll ask for hotel receipts then if you get your logs inspected. Sleeping in the cab or the box/trailer/tent/hammock/whatever isn’t eligible for SB logging, no exceptions.
So I can’t go over 100 miles and sleep at my mom’s house? Or a girlfriend’s house? Or under a bridge? Show me the law saying I have to get a hotel room.
Here’s how FMCSA actually views it:
- Home terminal rest – allowed if it’s genuinely your residence and you are free from duties.
- Sleeper berth rest – allowed only in a designated sleeper berth (meeting § 393.76)
- Trailer or non-berth rest – does not count as sleeper berth time (no bunk, not a designated sleeper compartment).
- Claiming “home off-duty” while sleeping in a trailer or truck parked somewhere is not permitted — because you are still in the work environment and have not relinquished work responsibility.
In short, stopping at a “family’s house” and claiming off duty while your truck is parked in the driveway is not eligible. So would be a clear violation that officers would see through very quickly.
Even this is not legal. Hotshot drivers run into it all the time. The seats do not count. How do I know? One of my guys who follows my equipment semi around in a pickup got fined last year.
I’m well aware of how it works, but thanks for the refresher. The Minnesota statie issued a warrant for just that, sleeping in the back of a pickup while off duty during the 10 hour. The original reason for the stop was due to the factory GM tint being too dark, but once he saw my guy slept at a kwik trip he quickly issued the citation. My legal team decided not to fight it so I’m inclined to disagree. Had my legal team fought it, and got it dismissed, I’d be inclined to agree. Classic example of “this is what the law says” vs real world experiences.
How did they know he slept at a Kwik Trip? If he logged off duty, all they’d know is that he parked the truck there. Could have walked or taken a rideshare to a hotel.
Because that’s where his ELD put the truck for the 10 hours and he told the statie that he stayed there in the truck. Fortune 500 corporation, so sadly it’s not up to me.
Not only that. Hotshots arent legally allowed to have a sleeper unless they remove the bed from the truck from what i heard.
I have been seeing guys get sleepers put on their trailer on the GN. though. Cant remember who makes em. Like a tear drop but no axles just mounted up top.
You've never been audited I'm guessing. The carrier is required to show proof of 10 hour rest periods along with supporting documentation, ie hotel receipts or sleeper berth on the tractor. As a w-2 employee, a hotel is a company expense that the employer is supposed to cover or reimburse.
No law requires providing hotel receipts or sleeper berth. If yiu are being audited and they are asking for them, it is because they suspect logbook fraud.
FLSA is the law requiring employers to cover travel related expenses for employees. Employers are only required to cover hotel expenses if the employee is not 100% relieved of all work responsibilities.
When logging off duty, drivers are not allowed to do any work related task, which means the employer does not have to cover lodging expenses.
Like 90% sure it is illegal. Like 98% sure that OTR box truck driver is 1 of the top 10 worst jobs in America. Literally every downside of being a truck driver with 0 of the benefits. 70 hr work week but no sleeper and getting paid like $700/week? Hellllll no
I'd like to see it as well, but isn't there DOT guidelines that say you have to sleep in a sleeper when team driving and off duty? It seems like this same thing would apply to non-team drivers. But still, lets see that law.
You can't log sleeper unless you are in a sleeper, but you can log off duty if you sleep in a parked truck.
Nothing requires that you ever log sleeper time. I run a daycab and go home every day. My bedroom is not a sleeper, but I can log off duty when I go home.
You generally can't log off duty while in the passenger seat of a moving truck, but they are some exceptions to that.
If you're a team driver you can log off duty for up to 2 hours in a passenger seat while your teammate is driving before or after 8 hours in the sleeper berth.
Arizona DOT pulled us over for being in the left lane too long and straight up asked me why I was in the passenger seat as a team so your mileage may vary.
That is not correct. You can be in the truck while logged off duty. You can also sleep in the driver seat if you choose.
However, if logged off duty you cannot have any work related responsibilities.
The law requires rest periods. It does not have any requirement on what you do during those rest periods or where you have to take them.
If you log a rest period as sleeper berth then there are requirements for what qualifies as a sleeper berth and you must actually be in the sleeper berth during that rest period.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/taxonomy/term/8701
I dont know the specific statute but the law does state that a drive must rest 10 hours before driving. You cant log sleeping in the driver seat as sleeper berth, so they would need to go off duty and be in a hotel or somewhere else with a bed. Sleeping in a driver seat is not rest.
You can try to argue that the employer doesnt have to provide it. Maybe true if its in writing that the driver has to pony up and pay for a hotel. We can argue who is responsible all day, but I promise you when that driver gets in an accident and it comes out that they were never getting proper rest, the employer and employee will get destroyed by a lawyer in court
It may not be restful, but it is rest. We slept overnight in our Mack day cabs constantly while working oilfield and having to work days at a time. I've had my logs examined by dot in Texas a number of times where it shows me as sleeper berth even though it's a day cab and nothing was ever said. Perhaps that only pertained to us as we had oilfield exemption status, not sure.
The point is moot though, as the ad doesn't say anything about this being a cdl position. Most box trucks don't require a cdl (under 26k) so there is no law against the driver sleeping in the cab as long as he's in a safe spot.
Yes the law does require rest periods. It does not have any requirement on where you take them or what you do during them unless you log them as sleeper berth.
It is 100% legal to sleep in your driver seat during a rest period as long as you log off duty instead of sleeper berth. You also must be free from all work related responsibilities during that time.
The company is only required to provide you the rest periods. Everything else is up to you legally. If you choose not to get proper rest during your rest period, that is on you, not the company.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-service/summary-hours-service-regulations
Again, in the case of an accident, if a lawyer finds out a driver was sleeping in a seat they will be at fault even if they didnt cause the accident. Sleeping in a seat is not adequate rest, as the law does state that adequate rest is needed.
If the employer forced the driver to sleep in their seat then they would be liable. If the driver chose to sleep in the seat rather than paying for a bed, the driver would be liable.
Again, the law only requires companies to provide rest periods. It does not dictate where you rest or what you do during those rest periods.
Maybe if the driver is 1099. Because if what youre saying is true then union pacific engineers and airline pilots could be forced to find their own sleeping quarters if the companies decided to screw them with no repercussions for the companies. I dont believe it
Trucking laws, railroad laws and airline laws are different.
Trucking requires a rest period.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-service/summary-hours-service-regulations
Railroads require company provided lodging
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-II/part-228/subpart-F
Airlines are also not required to provide lodging, but do fall under FLSA for lodging. Trucking companies are generally exempt from FLSA because during rest time you are free from all work related activities.
While not mandating hotels, FLSA requires airlines to pay for all work-related travel time, including time spent in overnight lodging if the employee isn't free to use that time for personal activities, which effectively necessitates providing lodging or reimbursement.
I really hate to see vulnerable workers fall through the cracks in our safety code. Like some others have said, its wild how many desperate people are willing to do the work and sleep in a driver seat.
This we agree on. I personally would not work for a company that did not either provide a sleeper berth or paid for hotels. But there are many out there who will and will find the cheapest place they can to sleep. Whether that is in the seat or box or ground etc.
If the employee is forced to pay out of pocket for a hotel room for adequate rest to legally preform his job duties, it can be construed as wage theft.
That would be a stretch. The law only requires employers to provide rest periods.
Employees can choose what they do during those rest periods. No law says they have to rest, sleep in a bed, stay in a hotel etc.
If the employer told the employee they are required to sleep in a hotel each rest period and pay for it out of pocket, then you would have a case for wage theft.
/sigh.
Literacy vs Intepretation. Historical Precedent. Spirit and Intention of the law.
An example that has happened MANY times in the past - A company offers an on-the-surface much higher wage then competitors to attract workers. Once the workers are there, the comoany nickles and dimes them on all forms of "legal" deductions (Uniform cost, uniform maintenance cost, company meal cost, ect) to the point that the worker is then working for minimum wage. Legally, a company CAN do these deductions up to minimum wages.
The workers sue. Its taken before a judge. The judge determines that the company, while obeying the letter of the law, is in gross violatoon of the spirit/intention of the law. They rule against the compant and force them to pay back wages. This isn't just a 1 time occurance, but has happened MANY times througbout US history.
Another extremely classic example thats actually in danger. The first amendment to the US constitution prohibits Congress from passing any form of legislation inhibitong various freedoms of expression - speech, the press, assembly, ect. It does not literally prohibit the Executive branch from infringing upon these freedoms. Thus we have the Japanese American internment camps in WW2. A decision made by the executive branch at the time to curb possible Treason.
Of course, those citizens recieved a massive payout and compensation from lawsuits following WW2, because while it didn't literally violate the wording of the 1st amendment, it absolutely violated the spirit of it.
The 10 hour break has 1 intention - to give a driver adequate physical rest to prevent fatigue. A company that doesn't make allowances for this intent - By, say, preventing a truck from having any climate control while not driving to save on fuel and maintenance costs, or by just not provoding anything other then the cab seat to a driver for rest - may not be in violation of the literal portion of the law, but are absolutely in violation of the spirit of the law.
I would like to ask you this - it seems you are defending shady company practices to nickel and dome their workers and society to enrich themselves. Why?
I am not defending companies. I am merely stating what the law requires.
I think companies should pay for lodging and encourage their drivers to sleep during their rest periods.
People sue for all kinds of things. Laws are always sibject to change. Currently, trucking companies have zero requirement to provide lodging. They have to provide rest periods so drivers have the opportunity to rest. If the driver chooses not to get rest during thag time, thats on them.
Is there anything that defines "adequate rest" as sleeping in anything in particular? A lot of box trucks have bench seats, pretty easy to lay down on one of those. Hell, it may not technically be a sleeper, but I've seen some that have beds in the overhang. It may not be the most comfortable, but there's no reason getting "adequate rest" requires a full bunk or bed.
My point is that a good lawyer can play with definitions and make it to their benefit. Which in this case would be a good thing since its really not adequate rest. As far as having beds in the overhang, thats clearly functional. A driver's seat is built to be sat in while awake, a bed is built for rest.
DOT only requires employers to provide time for adequate rest. It does not define what adequate rest is or what a drivers responsibilities are for adequate rest. Nothing in the law even require drivers to sleep during their off duty time, it only requires the opportunity to sleep.
And funny thing is I'm pretty sure I've seen people sleeping in box trucks with no sleepers at truck stops in the past when I was driving trucks. I thought to myself there's no way that's comfortable and who the hell would do it. Sure enough though, he was in fact Indian
That is illegal. The truck MUST be equipped with a sleeping quarters of some sort. Even if its just big enough to be a bed with a curtain to cover it from the cab.
Its not bullshit they got on fucking hotshots for it now too. It literally says you need a physical sleeper birth to comply with FSMCA HOS rules. Its not 1975 anymore catch up.
It is not.
A sleeper berth is only required if logging rest periods as sleeper berth.
If you log off duty, you do not need a sleeper in the truck.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-service/summary-hours-service-regulations
If you are sleeping IN THE VEHICLE it needs a sleeper birth that meets specifications.
https://csa.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyplanner/MyFiles/SubSections.aspx?ch=22&sec=64&sub=140
I'm not arguing with a bunch of old foggies who can't use fucking Google.
You're fucking stupid. There is absolutely no law that says a truck driving otr has to have a sleeper berth. None. There is also no law that states an employer must provide you with a sleeper or a motel. Only that they have to give you time for rest. No law states where you can rest. UNLESS, unless you log sleeper berth. Then you better have one. But if you don't have a sleeper berth you log off duty and you can do anything you want in that off duty period
You seem to be missing the part where legally if you're sleeping in the sleeper birth your log should reflect. So LEGALLY speaking your log would be false and you could receive citation if an officer wanted to be petty. So yes, you need a sleeperbirth and FMCSA reflects it.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
I have not missed that. It's what I have already said.
Logging sleeper requires a sleeper berth.
Logging off duty does not.
No law requires trucks to have a sleeper berth.
No it is not legal to designate where a driver sleeps.
This ad very much seems to imply that you can't sleep away from the truck. They likely have issues with load security and have to keep the driver with the truck.
That said: they're not required to give you a place to sleep, just enough time to sleep.
I did that for awhile, dude set up some padding to bridge the driver seat and the passenger seat together, didn't even get a damn bench seat. He would pay for hotels twice a week, home on weekends and $1000 under the table cash, it was good money for me at the time and I drove all over the country, but they do this so they can run you in a non CDL box truck, the expeditor ones are CDL B trucks, I did that for awhile also but honestly dealing with the tream driver I had made me want to go back, made less money also. I eventually parted ways when he legit told me that "personal conveyance" can be used once my time runs out, lucky I never got stopped.
I was shipping some loads where the client was arranging shipping. PIA since they didn’t know what they where doing half the time so that was part for the headache with them but that’s a different story.
But the loads we were producing would get picked up on box trucks to go from CA to TX/MX border.
Most of the driver’s 1) had shitty equipment, one left his pallet jack Since if just broke, and his lift gate was spewing oil for example. 2) had mattresses in their box.
One even had like a little apt with a kitchen and porta potty, but looked like a regular box truck .
These were one way dedicated loads, 2-10 pallets each.
Now a days. I seen em use plywood cut to go around the wheel and braced across the seats.
But honestly. The employer could do better to just buy a bpx that has cab access and just slap a cot back there.
Fuck a hammock would still be comfy....i kinda wanna buy a hammock now. Theres some days that its genuinely nice outside. I already keep the lawn chair just for days like that. Cant tell ya how many days i have chosen to just sit back and relax in the grassy area near my truck or just outside while at a dock relaxing.
Chances are it's a shifty 1099 job that pays 700$ a week and it's ran by those Russians out of Chicago. Only people applying to this are the poor schmucks who got rejected by every mega carrier and are staring down the end of a rusty shotgun barrel.
A simple Google search shows the answer. While it's uncomfortable, sleeping in the cab of a box truck without a sleeper berth is legal as long as the truck is in a safe location (I. E. Truck stop or rest area)...
So there's your answer. It's a dick move. I used to work oil field and we had Mack day cabs. I have worked 24 hours a day for 9 days straight babysitting a post frak well, taking a load of produced water to a disposal every 7 to 10 hours or so. Oil field exemption ya know? Drive an hour to disposal, spend 30 min pumping the tank out, hour back and sleep 5 to 8 hours or so.
I could never get comfortable with the only position really being to lean forward over the steering wheel and putting my head on my arms. Woke myself up a number of times pressing the horn on accident.
It really is shit.
Well I dont want to slander a company publicly if it is legal. Its shitty but if its legal and people are willing to do it for some reason then I can't bash on em. I dont want to be responsible for people to spam negative review em
Online Reviews of trucking companies don't mean shit. Amazon doesn't care if 3 letter trucking owned by Andrei Chauchezko is being slandered by some Karen, but the department of transportation DOES care if companies are making drivers break the law.
Your 10 hour reset isn’t valid unless the sleeper meets the provisions mentioned in the fmcsa green book. It shows minimum sleeper dimensions and features.
The only driver who would do this is an illegal immigrant. Even if you have a shit driving record, you can get a job at Welfare Express with a sleeper.
It's technically not illegal but it is spectacularly shitty and they know it is because they're getting hotels on the weekends or else nobody would apply. There's no law against sleeping in a tent or the box itself or the seats you just can't log it as sleeper berth if you're in the box or the seat so you can't do split sleeper. Honestly though it's probably cheaper to just get a box truck with a sleeper, they do exist.
A ton of people don't realize how blessed they are to work for a trucking company that gets sleeper trucks, or that putting a sleeper on a truck is as cheap as it is. Battery APU's too. Moreso if their company aren't dicks about idling, mine doesn't give a single fuck if I idle every single hour I'm not driving as long as I'm regularly checking the oil and coolant. I've idled for 48 hours straight before and they didn't say shit. But I have a perfect service record and driving record so it's just worth it and nobody bitches about anything.
It used to be 100% illegal. Not sure as of now, tmu there was a change in rulings that made it more grey. Lawyers would absolutely rake the driver over the coals though.
I’ve seen these guys they will be sleeping on like a bench seat with stuff hanging on the windows. Sounds miserable unless they giving you something crazy for pay but let’s be honest that’s not the case.
Companies are required to give you adequate TIME to sleep. I can't find a law, rule, or regulation that says they have to give you a PLACE to sleep. So no, technically it wouldn't be illegal.
But you can't log sleeping in a truck as sleeper berth if it doesn't have one, it would have to be as logged as off duty.
It's possible to sleep without a berth, for short stretches anyways... Back when I had my own truck I invested in a high dollar seat and half the time when I stopped, I just laid the seat back, threw my feet up on the steering wheel and slept like that. I never slept more than few hours (before eld's) and it worked for me.
I damn sure wouldn't want to try it in a box truck without a fold-down mattress of some kind though.
There's a company I worked for years ago called Bitendelo that does this. My first day on the job they wanted me to drive from Houston to Colorado.... 😂
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