Why does everyone drive so close together nowadays?

Posted by _FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 191 comments

I passed my test just under a decade ago and I was always taught two seconds behind the car in front unless it’s wet etc. and I understand that there are way more vehicles on the road since even just a decade ago but is it not still safest to have at least a two second gap? Is this not taught anymore? When I first passed my test it was the occasional AH that would drive up your bumper but now it’s more people than not that do it. This is a genuine question, I don’t understand :(

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191 Comments

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Jamesl1988@reddit

Simply, because people are: * In a rush * In a world of their own * Selfish * Mega cunts

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laredocronk@reddit

And when drivers do leave a sensible gap, someone from the list above with force their way into it.

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sihasihasi@reddit

I tend to drive at 60ish in lane 1. The amount of times I see 3 (or more) cars in the same gap I'm leaving, in the next lane, is staggering.

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rakadiaht@reddit

honest question, why do you drive 10 under the limit?

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IcyShop7051@reddit

I also drive at around 60mph, only overtake when a HGV or such is slower. I give myself plenty of time to get to where I need to be. Also I drive a BMW.

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Flinnyboi@reddit

Okay, but why?

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UnCommonSense99@reddit

Jumping in here, I suggest you try driving at 60- 65 mph Compare your actual journey times and fuel consumption to when you drive faster. You may be in for a shock. "I wasted how much fuel to get there 4 minutes sooner?" Also, when the right lane is full of angry lemmings driving too close I find it relaxing and safer to pull to the left and ease off a little

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Flinnyboi@reddit

I do drive at 60-65 most of the time. I was only repeating the original question (of why?), because rather than answer, the previous commenter replied just to say that they also do this, with no explanation.

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Mission_Beach_7098@reddit

I'm not a 60mph person but a number of times I've found there's stupidity going on around me on the motorway and just dropped my speed and opted out for a while in lane 1. Much less stressful

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IcyShop7051@reddit

Literally this. No need for me to answer as this is exactly why. Thank you.

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Zymoox@reddit

In my experience around 60-65 mph you get the lowest fuel comsuption with the shortest travel time. Below 50 mph it takes too long and at 80+ you consume fuel too fast.

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sihasihasi@reddit

Initially, for improved fuel consumption. In my diesel Focus, the difference between driving at 60 and 70 gets me another 10-15 mpg. But it's also just far less stressful. I'm happy to plod along, only overtaking the odd HGV and let everyone else dart about. When there's a single lane, I'm doing the speed limit along with everyone else, but dual carriageway or above, I'm sitting in the "slow lane". I do speed up to match the traffic in the next lane, when overtaking, though, to avoid the "duelling trucks" effect.

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SuchHorror@reddit

I'm replying to this comment specifically because I also drove a diesel focus 🤣 And this is exactly what I do. In another post somebody who works for the emergency services (allegedly) told me that one day somebody will rear end me and the emergency services will have no sympathy. I'd rather have a less stressful journey, get better mpg and I get to laugh at the train of people 2ft from each other bumpers in lane 3 🤣

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sihasihasi@reddit

Yeah, I'm sure that person works for the emergency services. I mean - we see cars crashed up the arse of HGV's _all_ the time, don't we? What a wanker.

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Public-Amphibian4698@reddit

I do a lot of towing and simply find 60mph nice speed to drive at even when I’m not towing, fuel economy is better and it doesn’t add anything to travel time. Plus the rage people have when they have to sit behind me for a whole 5-10 seconds while I go past a lorry is just brilliant.

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jamesfowkes@reddit

Definitely true, I have adaptive cruise control set to a roughly 2 second gap at 70mph. That gap regularly gets filled by someone pulling into it.

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TimeForGrass@reddit

That's fine, it's how roads work. I don't mind at all if someone pulls into my 2 second gap, it's a non issue. That's just how you navigate motorways. If you've just overtaken a few people and you drop into the gap in front of them but behind another car, what's the problem?

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UnCommonSense99@reddit

I detest adaptive cruise control. When I pull to the left a middle lane hogger starts to overtake me, but when a lorry pulls out 300 yd ahead their adaptive cruise control eases off and blocks me in

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thmt11@reddit

What’s a sensible gap? I try to leave 2 car lengths and the car in front somehow thinks I’m tailgating them and slow down to take the piss.

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LeTreacs2@reddit

You are tailgating them.

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MarrV@reddit

2 car lengths is a fraction of a second at 70 mph. 2 car lengths is 8-9 meters. That is covered in less than 0.3 of a second. The average human reaction time is 0.2-0.3s which is enough time for you to react before hitting the car in front. You should be giving 96 meters, which is over 10 car lengths.

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Pedantichrist@reddit

You are close enough that, at speeds over 15mph, you could be charged with driving without due care and attention. If things went awry, that would translate to death by dangerous driving.

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steadvex@reddit

2 car lengths?! I'd be having constant panic attacks every time the car in front flashes the slowing down lamps! Increase panic with speed 😂

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GazelleScary7844@reddit

Two car lengths!? Are you having a laugh? Two SECONDS, not car lengths, jeez.

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invisiblenotimmortal@reddit

Average stopping distance in dry conditions at 30mph is 23m (this is thinking time plus braking time). The average car is somewhere around 4.5m long. That means you should be over 5 car lengths away from the vehicle in front at 30mph. This distance increases with speed so, as the person above mentioned, you should judge based on time rather than actual distance.

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laredocronk@reddit

Two seconds. How big that is depends how fast you're going. Two car lengths might be fine at low speeds, but it's way too close if you're going at 70 mph.

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Colloidal_entropy@reddit

2 second time gap not 2 car lengths. Basically if you're above about 12mph you're too close at 2 car lengths.

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TheCowboyOfEpic@reddit

Much bigger than that! IIRC, 2 average car lengths is a 2 second gap at ~10MPH. 2 seconds is a pretty good distance to give yourself time to react to anything happening in front smoothly (for general driving) and should be more than enough space in an emergency. (At 30 MPH the 2 second rule is about 26 metres or around 6 car lengths.)

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highrouleur@reddit

in decent weather conditions, 2 seconds ( nothing to do with car lengths, the actual distance is relative to speed), if wet, or icy, a lot more

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Silly_Tomatillo6950@reddit

and they think their finance car makes them immune to crashes

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ARobertNotABob@reddit

> In a rush Because they **never** heed the oft-spoken wise words : Allow More Time For Your Journey.

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AgileSloth9@reddit

* The person in front is driving unnecessarily slowly for no apparent reason. Sure, tailgating doesn't really help anyone, but if you're driving 50 in a 60 at all times, people will get pissed off. Same with those doing 60 in a 70 on dual carriageways/motorways. Unnecessary slow driving needs to start being fined too so that people actually drive to the conditions instead of causing that frustration by driving so slow when theres zero reason to do so.

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sihasihasi@reddit

>Same with those doing 60 in a 70 on dual carriageways/motorways. So just overtake, get on with your life, and let them get on with theirs. What a moronic attitude.

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NoExperience9717@reddit

There's a lot of vehicles that are speed limited to 60mph on a dual carriageway and some on a motorway so that's a non-starter. Maybe I could see one for 50 or less though. NSL roads I would not apply a minimum speed limit to.

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Pedantichrist@reddit

No, the car behind is responsible for this. There is no right of way in the UK, you do not get to insist someone else drives faster, for your convenience, and you absolutely do but get to intimidate them into it.

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AgileSloth9@reddit

You also are meant to drive to the conditions, not to whatever you feel like. If there's no reason not to drive at 60 in a 60, you should be doing 60 (or at least close). Yet constantly in perfect conditions there are drivers who insist on doing 10/15/20mph below the limit for no reason at all, slowing down everyone else. This absolutely needs to start being punished, as it's absolutely driving without due care and attention when your speed being so severely below the limit that you end up with a huge queue behind you. It's absolutely a dick move too. As I said, tailgating helps no one, but going significantly below the speed limit is also a cause of people closing up the gap because you're causing the frustration by driving poorly yourself.

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sjcuthbertson@reddit

Note: "conditions" includes the conditions inside the car as well. If the car is heavily laden, it takes more time to get up to speed and needs to slow down again a longer time before corners; it may need to be moving even slower through the corners too. Equally, the car may have a passenger (human or animal) who is unwell, motion sick, or generally infirm, and who consequently needs reduced G-forces. On A-roads and smaller, such situations often equate to never getting above 40-50 even when there are straight stretches that other cars can hit 60 on. The crucial point here is that **you cannot tell what the internal conditions of the car in front of you are**. Give other drivers the benefit of the doubt wherever possible. I find it helpful to remind myself that the vehicle in front of me could be a vehicle that has a lower legal speed limit (most big vehicles have a limit of 50 rather than 60 on single-carriageway A roads) or something like a farm vehicle / tractor that simply can't hit 50+. Or, indeed, a horse or pedal cyclist. All of these users are equally entitled to use the road.

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macw450@reddit

Disagree with the order but spot on

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CallousJoy@reddit

And often looking at their phone screen...

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AlfalfaFlaky7100@reddit

Right? It’s like they think their texts are more important than everyone’s safety. Driving's not a video game, folks!

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Pitiful-Spinach-5683@reddit

And unfortunately the person in front is the same but additionally: * Lane hogging * Inept (and I mean this in the nicest way - some people's vision isn't as good as others especially at night) * Maybe don't have the performance of the car behind

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Pedantichrist@reddit

None of those things excise the car behind tailgating. Not at all.

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Slartitartfast@reddit

How does any of this cause someone to tailgate them?

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Questjon@reddit

In a "rush". People think they're in a rush but it's just that engaged driving is more entertaining. No-one is weaving through traffic to shave 5 minutes off their journey because the need to, it's just a form of boredom. For some people driving is a burden, for others it's entertainment.

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Thomasin-of-Mars@reddit

Yet people switch to driving automatics with more and more convenience features.

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Questjon@reddit

Automatics? What year are you living in. Driving an automatic is like using a ball point vs a fountain pen. It's purely preference (maybe some style points of the penmanship), it doesn't change the quality of the actual writing.

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peteyourdoom@reddit

I was driving through town, just below the speed limit and got beeped twice, once on the straight and then turning left safely . Absolute selfish lad behind me...

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haonowshaokao@reddit

If you leave a reasonable gap some twat will undertake you to get in front and save himself 0.5 seconds on his journey.

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adsm_inamorta@reddit

People are so impatient. It's either that or they are creeping forward waiting for the traffic light to turn green or run a red light when there's no doubt they could have comfortably stopped before the light changed.

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_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit (OP)

A lorry driver beeped at me for stopping at a red light.

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adsm_inamorta@reddit

Did he though, or was he directly behind you and didn't appreciate how quickly you stopped? Maybe he thought you were going through but then changed your mind so he had to brake hard.

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_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit (OP)

Yeah but I’m not gunna run a red light. He wants to relearn himself about stopping distances if he doesn’t want to brake hard.

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Random_Guy_47@reddit

I was taught the 2 second rule was for motorways. Not for city streets. There was never really a specified distance to leave for any other roads, just common sense.

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Aggressive_Drop_1518@reddit

Roadcraft and IAM apply it to all driving (obviously dry etc). Useful IAM calculator: subtracting 10% from your speed gives the distance travelled in two seconds e.g., 50mph -10% = 45m. Thus at 50mph you need to be at least 45 metres behind the vehicle in front to achieve a safe 2 second overall stopping distance. Or 30 mph needs 27m

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Fair_Condition_1460@reddit

TIL! There's no way I have ever seen cars at 30mph with gaps as big as 5x car lengths between. You'd get overtaken, then lynched.

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Aggressive_Drop_1518@reddit

Probably why insurance for IAM members is so much cheaper and they're not the ones rear ending other cars?

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Fair_Condition_1460@reddit

That's a bit pessimistic. I'm sure there will be an IAM trained rear ender one of these days.

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Aggressive_Drop_1518@reddit

Fair comment Fair. There was that TPAC that went horrifically wrong fairly recently, with quite the spectacular 'failed to stop short...' and those guy's training is up a level or two.

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Fair_Condition_1460@reddit

🤝

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okaycompuperskills@reddit

It’s a rule-of-thumb for braking distance, so it applies everywhere

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MidsummerMidnight@reddit

I really don't get it. I have a car in front of me. I give them space. But car behind will be up my ass. Why? What do they gain? I can't go faster anyway cos I have a car in front of me lol I just go slower nowadays if people tailgate. I had one guy flashing me once cos I slowed. Was quite satisfying to know id annoyed him.

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BilboSwaggins1993@reddit

If people tailgate you, slowing down and increasing the gap between you and the car in front is what's recommended, actually. So keep doing that. Not to annoy them, but so you can brake very gradually and reduce the chance of them crashing into your arse.

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MidsummerMidnight@reddit

Yeah I do it for both tbf, two birds one stone and all that lol

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_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit (OP)

If I set my cruise control to 32mph through a 30mph limit and someone tailgates me I will drop the cruise control down to 30mph.

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MidsummerMidnight@reddit

30 is being generous. I'll go down to 25 lol

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BilboSwaggins1993@reddit

I passed a few months ago. It's still taught, but a lot of people don't seem to care. If 20-30% of people don't care, everyone ends up looking like they're very close together, even if the majority would be trying to leave 2s, especially on relatively busy dual carriageways and motorways where, without fail, a car will slot in front of me leaving me about 0.5s of time gap. I drop back, the space is filled again 2 or 3 minutes later. Rinse and repeat.

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ClawingAtMyself@reddit

Learning to drive currently and my instructor told me, when we first went on the motorway, "if you leave the correct space between yourself and the car in front of you, someone will cut in that gap, just slow down and make those 2 seconds up again" So yeah, we're definitely still taught it, we're just also taught about what some drivers can be like lol

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Slartitartfast@reddit

Because somehow people don't realise that if you're having to use the brakes on the motorway then you're doing it wrong. People also missed the key bit of information that people braking is what causes slow downs on motorways because of the concertina effect. If everyone kept their distance everyone would get there faster.

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slade364@reddit

This somewhat ignores traffic density. As it approaches c.30 cars per lane per km, concertina becomes unavoidable. Not due to inherently poor driving, but because small fluctuations in traffic flow are amplified throughout the flow due to density of vehicles. Think of a slip lane - if you're joining an already busy motorway, it's not as easy as simply keeping your distance so that everyone arrives sooner. To do that, you'd have to slow down, and given sufficient number of vehicles on the road, you instigate a concertina behind you.

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Slartitartfast@reddit

It doesn't ignore density, the concertina effect is both caused by and the cause of a lot of that density. If you're keeping your distance then someone slowing in front doesn't require you to slow down as you have a gap to drive into, which then opens up again when they speed up. That's the whole point. How many times have you found yourself in slow downs with zero cause? That's caused by people braking unnecessarily on open stretches because they're so close to the person in front that if they have to adjust speed then the following car brakes, the car behind them brakes etc. there's no reason for most slow downs on motorways, it's entirely poor driving either through lane hogging or driving too close. M62 is a perfect example. When you go over saddleworth it's an open stretch but it's often totally snarled up and full of brake lights.

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ConceptOfHappiness@reddit

>If you're keeping your distance then someone slowing in front doesn't require you to slow down as you have a gap to drive into, which then opens up again when they speed up. That's the whole point No it isn't. The point of the gap is to give me space to react if the car in front crashes/piles on brakes so I don't hit them. It's therefore not safe to allow that gap to get eaten up by normal speed fluctuations because if they then have to brake hard I'm going through their back window.

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Slartitartfast@reddit

You're right, I'm suggesting that you just drive straight into someone who's slowed down. That is obviously what I mean, not that keeping a distance reduces the need to slow down when the driver in front adjusts their speed due to e.g. a driver pulling in front of them. Thanks for correcting me, what a silly sausage I am.

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slade364@reddit

It does ignore density. You are correct that tailgating and unnecessary braking accelerate congestion, but there's a proven threshold above which spacing won't make a difference. It's also lower than most people think. Collectively, vehicles act like a compressible medium, and at a certain density traffic jams are mathematically unavoidable. Of course, anyone slamming on their brakes will also cause a concertina effect, but it's not the cause of our motorway frustrations. Above 30 (ish) vehicles per km, even if everyone tries to keep a gap, small speed fluctuations (not just heavy braking) amplify rather than disperse through the medium. At high density, safe corrections require higher speed change than the initial disturbance, and that spreads through the traffic. It's purely maths rather than psychology or poor driving. density/concentration, essentially. It's well established and has been empirically proven. Fluid dynamics with delayed feedback, basically. Happy to share more if you're interested.

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Pedantichrist@reddit

Effective spacing self limits density, however.

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Slartitartfast@reddit

Yeah genuinely would love to hear more about this, cheers. With regards it not making a difference, surely drivers applying brakes unnecessarily causes more braking behind and consequently traffic? Or have I been living a lie?! Perhaps I'm being really thick but surely everyone keeping (for example) 2 chevrons apart reduces density?

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slade364@reddit

Happy to share a system overview with a true mathematical breakdown but thought this would be easier to understand. But no, you're not being thick! The key aspect is that most people think in terms of good driving and bad driving, whereas density becomes a mathematical issue, rather than ability. Even keeping 2 chevrons apart, if someone slows down by 1mph (so a natural/unavoidable fluctuation in speed of one vehicle on a motorway, and not caused by inherently bad driving), the car behind will slowly close in. Humans have a reaction time, so the gap closes before they realise the small speed change, and to restore the same (safe) distance to 2 chevrons, the second car has to overreact and reduce their speed by more, because otherwise they'd remain at a reduced distance - which we deemed unsafe and thus to be corrected based on our 2 chevrons assumtpion. So they slow by 2mph, for example. The 3rd car sees their gap close even faster, because of the higher speed reduction of the 2nd car, and also must overreact to restore the safe distance, so they slow by 3-4mph. This means a very small effect of even 1mph can be amplified through traffic flow. However, shit driving will also cause traffic jams. So you're not wrong, you just don't necessarily think in a fluidic system way, because (frankly) why the hell would you!? And yes, before anyone asks, I'm a fucking hoot at parties.

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Slartitartfast@reddit

Ah ok, so I get all this as I've experience riding on a velodrome where these things are very evident. The way to counter them is to look beyond the rider in front and and at what the mass is doing, if you only respond to the person in front then it does the concertina which ends up with the last rider getting shot out the back. With this in mind, there's presumably a behavioural element to this. Someone over reacting to something the person in front does is magnified behind, which brings me back to my point - if there is a sufficient gap to the driver in front so that them changing speed doesn't impact you, surely that helps reduce this effect? I know when I drive on the motorway I don't use my brakes at all. I leave a large enough gap to the person in front that their fluctuations don't impact me as we have such a buffer; how can it be that if everyone doesn't do that it doesn't reduce the effect? Yes, you can't ever totally get rid of it, but the changes I mention must help, presumably why 50 zones and chevrons exist.

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slade364@reddit

Yes, larger spacing dampens the amplification effect of a small speed fluctuations. But when talking about the "sufficient gap", we are accepting that density is key. Above a certain density those very minor changes in speed create flow instability and stop-start waves are a mathematical guarantee. It also depends on the speed reduction, and reaction time. Because it someone slows gradually but the tailing vehicle notices slowly, they still have to overreact. And we are also assuming a perfect system so far. Let's add to the model that different vehicles have speed limiters (trucks, vans) which leads to lane and speed changes, slip roads / exits (again causing lane and speed changes), weather fluctuations affecting short and long term speed, speed limits, motorway bends recommending lower speeds, road works / lane closures. You can see that a "perfect" two-chevron spacing is practically impossible. From the moment you join a motorway and create a gap in front of you, the car behind you may already have to slow slightly. Add all the small fluctuations from vehicles, lanes, and conditions, and the amplification of minor speed changes becomes inevitable, all based around traffic density. But again, bad driving is also impactful.

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Slartitartfast@reddit

Ok cheers. I was terrified I was completely wrong for a second but that all makes sense! Thanks for taking the time to reply, I'm sure you're very good company at parties!

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slade364@reddit

Haha, no problem dude. Shit drivers cause plenty of issues outside of traffic jams too!

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BarnabusTheBold@reddit

> If you're keeping your distance then someone slowing in front doesn't require you to slow down as you have a gap to drive into, which then opens up again when they speed up. That's the whole point. Assuming this miracle world existed, nobody is perfect. Everybody will slow down slightly more than the person in front, because we're not literal machines who can perfectly track such things. This will promulgate until the end of the 'row' of cars or until a car stops altogether. You may have an argument that people being close makes this effect worse, but the effect still occurs regardless.

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Slartitartfast@reddit

If you look at the thread in which a mathematician agrees this you'll see that yes, I get this.

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cadex@reddit

This. The aim of the game on the motorway is to avoid having to use your breaks at all. Of course if traffic suddenly slows to a crawl you have no choice, but it's more than possible to avoid having to break at all providing you are keeping safe distance and travelling at the right speed. All these twats rushing up behind people then slamming their breaks on just causes others to slam their breaks on a s voila, traffic a few miles behind you comes to a standstill.

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Voltalox@reddit

I just posted in r/drivinguk about how I passed my test around 1.5 years ago. "Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule" was drummed into my head when I was learning, and I stand by it. I always keep a good distance between myself and the car in front of me. I don't know if they suddenly need to brake or not. What if an animal (or worse, a child) suddenly runs out in front of them? I'd have no way of anticipating that, but I can certainly brake without hitting them if there's enough distance. Common sense, innit.

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DMMMOM@reddit

Because the majority of people driving cars these days are asleep and stupid. That's why they are driving too fast and too close. There is no other reason. And it's why your insurance is sky high.

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Zealousideal_Fold_60@reddit

Totally agree, I have a safe gap on the motorway and someone will jump in..

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NoExperience9717@reddit

How is this an issue though? Between them presumably moving faster if overtaking and if you want to easing back 1/2mph it quickly corrects. Having gaps for people to move into also helps roads move smoothly by enabling people to move between lanes reasonably safely. Realistically if someone waited to move back in after overtaking to a full 2s gap we'd see far more congestion and overtakes would take far longer so the 2s gap is more for following other vehicles when you're going at roughly the same speed.

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BarnabusTheBold@reddit

> Totally agree, I have a safe gap on the motorway and someone will jump in.. This is in fact one of the reasons for leaving gaps. Honestly this mentality is ironically just as bad as the thing everyone is moaning about. Similar to when you're on a 'merge in turn' section and everyone decides to merge into the lane early and then gets angry at people following the traffic rules which should reduce congestion

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OMGItsCheezWTF@reddit

Yeah I fucking hate this, I was in the M4 today and had some native people carrier dip in front of me as soon as their rest bumper cleared a cm of my front bumper. Nuts

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Glass_House_555@reddit

Every. Single. Time.

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CheekyYoghurts@reddit

If this is happening to you a lot, it's highly likely you're doing under the limit without a good reason. Everyone I know at work complains about driving standards, yet when I'm in their car they are regularly doing 10mph under the limit (unnecessarily) and complaining about people being up their arse. It's so hard not to point out the obvious 🤦🏻

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_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit (OP)

I always set my cruise control to about 10% over the speed limit.

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Cornelius-Figgle@reddit

Some people just aren't aware. When you think of an Audi driver being a foot from your bumper, you think a lot 20-something boy racer who wants to go faster. But yesterday it was a middle aged woman in a Q7 on the school run *with her kid in the passenger seat* that was filling my rear windscreen. Standard half 3 traffic and we were moving 20-30mph (slower due to traffic lights + pulling out across a roundabout) as is typical of that road, but yet she felt that it was a safe distance to follow me at.

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LemmysCodPiece@reddit

Because they are idiots.

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Woodkern32@reddit

• the majority of people are bad drivers • people are only required to pass a test to operate heavy machinery at high speeds once, despite the fact that this qualifies them for 60+ years • the increase in drivers from abroad where standards are much lower • the almost complete absence of a police presence on the roafs • the overall increase in traffic etc

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Regular_Zombie@reddit

When you compare the qualification and training requirements to operate machinery in a controlled workplace environment compared to the 'training' given to drivers it isn't too surprising we are where we are.

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Woodkern32@reddit

I've always advocated for re-testing drivers every 10 years, and for new drivers to undertake CBT (exceptions permitting)

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TheMusicArchivist@reddit

I think we should have multiple grades of licenses with harder and harder tests for each. Each license gives you the opportunity to drive a larger or more powerful car.

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BarnabusTheBold@reddit

> abroad where standards are much lower This is a default assumption, but a lot of places have more difficult tests than the UK

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Woodkern32@reddit

>This is a default assumption, but a lot of places have more difficult tests than the UK Is that why so many people bribe the examiners, then. Nice try, bozo

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Treaclechino@reddit

Pack mentality and also selfish twats that do not understand the risks!

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repair-it@reddit

Since covid, people are much more aggressive and less patient.

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Garf01@reddit

I've just moved to Hampshire from the Midlands and people driving too close to the car in front is so much worse down here.

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cjizzle236@reddit

Get a marker that the car in front has passed then say to yourself - “Only a fool breaks the two second rule” and if you pass the marker before your finish the rhyme, then you’re too close.

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MrPejorative@reddit

I have a rhyme to deal with the tailgaters behind me because they infuriate me. To the tune of Simply Red, You Don't know me. "If you don't pass me right now "You will never never never pass me"

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Radioactivocalypse@reddit

This is what I was taught too! I still do it while I'm driving. I think there are people who are unaware of the two second rule, but also people who are aware of the rule but completely misinterpret it. They ride the bumper in front of them, going "yeah that 1 metre gap is the equivalent of 2 seconds" completely not realising what's what and how it's supposed to be

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sail__away@reddit

Only a fool br—

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leninzen@reddit

Anecdotal evidence but I feel like drivers have less patience these days

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NorthAstronaut@reddit

People who always tailgate are also afraid of overtaking for some reason.

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_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit (OP)

I agree and can kinda understand that because there is SO much more traffic. We all need to chill. Do you think a lack of patience makes people drive closer?

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leninzen@reddit

We do need to chill. I think it's a genuine reflection of how society is atm, people are generally less patient and more individualistic/have main character syndrome. So yeah I think it's just impatience

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Aggressive_Drop_1518@reddit

I'd agree. It something you see at give ways. You'll see someone on a side street waiting behind the give way line but after 3, 4 ,5 cars pass (depending on patience) they'll just pull out in front of a car already established on main road causing then to brake. For way too many there no longer appears to be a I have to wait until a safe space to pull out into.

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leninzen@reddit

100%, I got beeped at yesterday for not pulling out into speeding traffic because maybe it took five seconds longer than usual at that junction lol. People need to remember they're operating large metal death machines if not handled correctly

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idontlikemondays321@reddit

People don’t use the lanes correctly now so it pisses some people off.

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West-Ad-1532@reddit

In 1990, there were approx 17.5 million drivers; now it's 40 million. I would hazard a guess that might be the reason.

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_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit (OP)

Yeah it’s just like anything I suppose. More people in general = more people doing it if it’s the same rate.

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West-Ad-1532@reddit

It's also the type of driver I am. I tend to leave enough room on motorways, for instance, so I brake just in case there's a problem in front. That's significantly more than two car lengths. Some don't assess hazards or perceive them in that manner. However, when I'm in stationary traffic, I don't leave much space between my car and the one in front of me..

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Apprehensive-Ad9210@reddit

Because they are selfish idiots.

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Major-Credit-2442@reddit

I see almost no one maintain a 2 second gap on the motorway. And tbf, even when you have those chevrons on the road to show what gap should be left, that isn’t even 2 seconds either.

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Due-Adhesiveness-744@reddit

The motorway, its less safe to leave a gap honestly. You get people speeding to overtake, then panicking last second and cutting in to whatever gap you leave.

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_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit (OP)

Please reeducate yourself on stopping distances.

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Due-Adhesiveness-744@reddit

Please re-educate yourself on the fact that not every comment on Reddit is meant to be taken seriously.

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_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit (OP)

Weirdo

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qzapwy@reddit

The chevrons are 40m apart, so if there are always two visible (so 80m), you should be at least 2.5 seconds behind the bar at front when driving at 70mph.

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Major-Credit-2442@reddit

Why do you need to be 40m away from something for it to be visible?

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Brilliant-Figure-149@reddit

With the chevrons the gap was supposed to be "TWO chevrons apart" although the graphic on the sign didn't make that clear.

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Major-Credit-2442@reddit

Well that’s what the signs say, keep 2 chevrons apart. But to me I’ve always taken that to mean maintain a distance that is a little more than the distance between each chevron. That way there are 2 chevrons between you and the car ahead. I do know some people think it could also mean to maintain a gap that is equal to 2x that, but if that was the intention then I think it’s a terrible implementation. Because why not just mar the chevrons the distance you want people to drive at in the first place?

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726wox@reddit

As with every other ‘nowadays’ conversation, people think: The past - good The present - bad

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_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit (OP)

I’m not saying that I’m just saying I’ve noticed it more but then there are a lot more cars on the road so I suppose it’s more noticeable because of quantity.

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PiemasterUK@reddit

That's what I was thinking. I have been driving for 30 years and people have *never* respected the 2 second rule. There is nothing 'nowadays' about this at all.

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JakeRiddoch@reddit

Agreed. Been doing motorway driving regularly for 25 years, I'm not convinced it's significantly worse now than it was then, but the 2 second rule is rarely followed.

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_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit (OP)

It’s more on the A and B roads I’ve found.

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Aggressive_Drop_1518@reddit

True. But I would say when I started driving in 1981 car safety was: probably a crumple zone, maybe a non-collapsible steering column and a seat belt on the front seats that you weren't required to wear. On the not a safety feature side you had; cheap soviet steel that gave your car near zero structural integrity, A pillars as thin as your thumb (great for visibility but not so good for intrusion prevention), no abs, possibly drums all round that would violently lock one side and so pull left or right, who could guess ( a joy on your test). You knew if you rear ended someone (or crashed in anyway) it would hurt/be fatal. You still had knobs that ignored everyone’s safety and they made the rather high KSI figures we had back then. I'd say generally as cars have become more survivable and detached from the environment people have become more apathetic towards primary self protection?

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MbembasTuxedo@reddit

The vast majority of drivers wouldn’t be able to pass a driving test again

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Dumbusernamesuggest@reddit

Only a fool breaks the two second rule.

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YSOSEXI@reddit

Too many cars..... Had a guy at work, "sorry I'm late I was stuck in traffic". "fucker, you were the traffic".

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Statement-Acceptable@reddit

It's always someone doing 25 in a 30 or 30 in a 40 zone. These people make regular commuters on that route 'bunch up' as they all push the speed limit only to be met with somebody going way under the limit. Thats my experience anyways, I try to leave the gap but I end up doing about 20mph to do so...

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Statement-Acceptable@reddit

Lots of feedback on my initial comment so I will just say that OP is asking 'why do people drive so close together' and I gave my opinion as to why it happens. This is based on major roads into and out of town centres and is accurate. If the limit is 30 I am going to drive at 30 until I meet a driver going slower at which point me and everyone behind me will have to slow down and unavoidably 'clump up' as we all try to regulate our speed. That is why you see lots of cars 'close together' alot of the time on these roads. Thank you for having a massive back and forth over wether or not I tailgate which is not what we are discussing 😅👍

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worotan@reddit

Yeah, a lot of people seem to think they’re on a nice Sunday afternoon drive in the summer, not in lots of traffic trying to get to work. I cycle, and the massive gaps and lazy driving you see are crazy; at lights, for example, people leaving a massive gap and then driving through them, leaving masses of cars behind them that could have got through, tailing back and blocking roads. I ride past all the nonsense on my bike and get there quicker, blows my mind how people drive in rush hour. I get past the slow drivers as quickly and safely as possible, because they’re usually the ones who are too busy talking to look, or make some weird decision you can’t anticipate.

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Slartitartfast@reddit

How is driving up someone's arse getting you there any faster? If they're doing 20 then you're doing 20 whether you're up their arse or a safe distance back. It makes no difference to your speed to leave a gap, surely you see that right?

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Drath101@reddit

The complaint isn't the "if I'm up their arse I'll get there faster, but I have to maintain a gap because of this highway code nonsense", the issue is "I wish they weren't doing 20 in a 30"

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Slartitartfast@reddit

"I try to leave the gap but I end up doing 20..." suggests that not leaving a gap would mean they'd not be doing 20 but they obviously would. I don't understand what someone's speed has to do with the gap you leave, it's odd logic.

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Drath101@reddit

"End up doing 20mph TO DO SO..." is the part you bizarrely tried to leave off the quote

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Slartitartfast@reddit

Adding 'TO DO SO' doesn't make any difference. It's exactly the same speed whether they're 1m away or 10m away. Am I having a stroke or something? You can tailgate at 20 or leave a gap at 20. You can only go as fast as the person in front. You're going to have to explain to me how I'm wrong because I absolutely am not getting this sorry.

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Drath101@reddit

You're not "wrong", you are just reading into the intent far too literally. The complaint is that the person is going slower. As a result they end up having to go at 20mph. They're not suggesting at any point that they believe they could tailgate faster, they're complaining that they're having to go at 20mph

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Slartitartfast@reddit

Ok, I get what you're saying but for OP to say that would suggest that the alternative is they drive faster up their arse, otherwise their comment makes no sense. It's entirely obvious that you'd have to do 20, so why say it like it's a thing unless there's an alternative? That's my point - it doesn't make any sense to say that without there being an assumed alternative.

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Drath101@reddit

Because that's the whole complaint. "I'm doing 20, that annoys me". If I stub my toe, swear and say "I just stubbed my fucking toe" I'm not trying to suggest there was an alternative, I'm just bitching about the scenario I'm in

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Slartitartfast@reddit

I think it's you who's not getting this, tbh. That's a false equivalence. OP is complaining about the speed and that they have to slow down to 20 to maintain the gap. Except they *don't have to slow down* they're literally going the same speed. There is no logical reason to say that without the thought that they're slowing down to maintain the gap which is clearly bollocks.

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Regular_Zombie@reddit

Sadly I think many people don't see that.

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Slartitartfast@reddit

Would appear the original commenter didn't, that's for sure.

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melnificent@reddit

So, people that understand speed limits are the maximum for that stretch of road vs people that see speed limits as minimum targets.

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twinkletots1@reddit

While there are more bumper to bumper drivers out there, there are more and more people on the roads that would have had my old driving instructor screaming “MAKE GOOD HEADWAY!” As well

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Drath101@reddit

We play the "are they too old to be driving, or are they texting" game every time

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Marvel--Jesus@reddit

Doing 10 mph lower than the 30 mph limit gets on my tits. Speed up a bit FFS.

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m1_ab@reddit

I'm learning to drive now, and can confirm the two second gap/double in bad conditions thing is still taught. People just don't actually do that.

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trin6948@reddit

Because people are assholes. It drives me mad, I have a small child in the car, give me space. I used to work in claims I know what happens if you're in the middle of a multiple collision on a motorway, it ain't pretty.

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Agitated_Year8521@reddit

Yeah seems like there's a lot more entitled folk around nowadays, and it doesn't help that cars are faster and ride better so some don't feel like they're being dangerous driving at stupid speeds on the A1. I had a Tesla undertake in heavy traffic that was already going 70mph, he was doing at least 100mph because he appeared out of nowhere and shot into the space barely big enough for his car right in front of me. I flash him, get brake checked for my trouble and he's wiggling his middle finger around like a poof before his Mrs pulls his hand down because I'm clearly in a transit van and am clearly indicating I'm now in a mood to pull over and fight. And all that to save a fraction of a second. There were so many lorries overtaking that he didn't even get ahead, I was up his arse for five minutes until I took the exit I needed to take to go to work.

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trin6948@reddit

When in slow moving traffic, when idiots do their thing I just stick my tongue out. If you're gonna behave like a child I'm gonna respond in kind. Makes me feel better!

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Rastapopolos-III@reddit

I'm lonely.

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CreativeAdeptness477@reddit

People are generally shit drivers. When I passed my test it was 3 seconds, not 2, and no one gave much of a shit back then either.

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qzapwy@reddit

The Highway Code still says you should allow at least a two-second gap between you and the vehicle in front on high-speed roads and in tunnels where visibility is reduced. Practically, I think thanks to modern technology most people have never had the terrifying experience of nearly going in the back of the car in front. Most modern cars will probably stop in half the distance the Highway Code says they will, on a good day. A lot of cars now have forward collision systems that are set lower than two seconds (My car has a little car symbol on the dashboard that goes from green to yellow if you are "too close" and it seems to trigger at about 1.5 seconds). And a lot of roads also have speed limits that are set much lower than the roads were designed for (say dual carriageways out of town with 40mph limits on them; or roads all over the Midlands with 50mph limits on that everywhere else would be national speed limit; or blanket 20mph limits in built-up areas).

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BillyJoeDubuluw@reddit

People generally conduct themselves much more selfishly than they did only ten years ago and with that comes a complete lack of patience and decorum… each party insisting to be in “the biggest rush” for “the most pressing reason” ultimately creates a loop of poor conduct and the driving standard - along with how to stand in a queue actually - are both perfect examples of this spike.

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Smeeble09@reddit

Leave too little of a gap, and you've not got time to react to any issues. Leave too big of a gap, and some ass-hat will cut you up/ jump the queue/ force their way into the gap, causing you to now have less space and have to alter your driving to avoid them.

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de-tree-fiddy@reddit

You can just slow down and open up a space again, it doesn't matter.

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Smeeble09@reddit

That reinforces the crap drivers thinking, and then leaves space for another to cut in too.

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KayC720@reddit

Because I want to push you along like bumper cars

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Immaterial71@reddit

It's because they consider themselves Very Important, and they don't have time to waste waiting for the likes of us trying not to drive into the back of the vehicle in front by leaving a sensible gap.

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Sirlacker@reddit

Because if you leave a gap big enough for a car, a car will force itself into the spot.

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Lunchy_Bunsworth@reddit

I was taught that rule and try to follow it. Unfortunately some idiots think it gives them the right to suddenly cut in front of you without indicating as they can see a gap thus forcing you to drive closer to them.

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pdp76@reddit

Lemmings that think they can get somewhere quicker, but of course you can only go as fast as the car in front, and the car in front of that, and the car in front of that car, and ……..

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ConfusedMaverick@reddit

I am absolutely sure I have seen people who literally don't know the difference between speed and position They see that I have left a 2 second gap in front of me, and it enrages them to the point where they have to flash, undertake and barge in, because they perceive it as my going slowly. No, I am going exactly the speed of the car in front... Just with a safe gap. 🤷

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pdp76@reddit

Yeah it’s just common occurrence now, driving standards are awful. I’ll show my age here, but I do remember a time when there was actual traffic police on every day roads, A roads and motorways and the shit that goes on now just wasn’t tolerated. You’d get pulled in for it and educated or prosecuted. The roads are a free for all.

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Which-Ad8964@reddit

It's because they're dick heads, and they don't think that they should have to be behind you, because they're more important than you are in their eyes. The world is becoming more and more selfish every day it would seem.

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CheeezBlue@reddit

Self entitlement is becoming more common across the board , a lot of cee you next Tuesdays these days

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Competitive_Pen7192@reddit

Because people are stupid and don't understand the laws of physics until they collide with something. It's even better because when you drive sensibly and leave a safe gap then you can guarantee some idiot van, BMW or Audi will cut into the gap then tailgate the car in front because they want to make up a few seconds on their so important journey.

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another_awkward_brit@reddit

Incompetence, mostly incompetence - with an unhealthy dollop of the normalisation of deviance - see also: "everyone chooses to speed", "I'll only be five minutes on the yellow lines" and "people can get past me in the right lane if I'm in the middle".

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GotAnyNirnroot@reddit

I'm starting to think most people are perfectly happy to die in a car crash, because working for a living is bloody awful. I had a dacia dusta right up my arse earlier, in a queue of traffic. A Dacia Duster?!

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Slartitartfast@reddit

Think they're up there with the worst driven cars on the road. Usually a middle aged man behind the wheel. Male equivalent of a qashqai.

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Benificial-Cucumber@reddit

I don't go as far as tailgating, but I do close up the gap in city traffic for the same reason cyclists are told to use the whole lane. Some knobhead will see a gap that's *technically there*, but not quite big enough, and dive into it anyway.

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badgerlord69@reddit

I don't understand either. Just guessing that maybe it bothers people that someone squeezes into the gap they maintain. And maybe they like to assert some pressure on the driver ahead for whatever reason drive faster etc.. Maybe they enjoy the extra danger they created for themselves. Whatever the reason it's going to be a stupid one.

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darthcaedus81@reddit

This is it. Can't possibly leave a gap that someone may try to get into. God forbid you lose 4m of extra road space, that would be the end of the world.

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jaymatthewbee@reddit

Crossover and SUV cars with ‘commanding’ driving positions make drivers feel safer than they actually are.

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EldritchSanta@reddit

I think this is an underrated comment. Cars feel far too safe, people have no concept of how quickly it can all go wrong unless they've experienced it personally.

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h00dman@reddit

For most I think they just don't realise they're too close. I got caught by a speed camera van a few years ago (no excuses, I wasn't paying enough attention and missed a speed limit sign) and I chose the speed awareness course option. To the instructors credit I did actually learn a few things that I didn't know, but it also corrected me on a few things I thought I did - leaving two seconds off distance between yourself and the car in front for instance. I thought I was doing that but when the guy actually made us all do it as a group (it was online as it was during COVID) I realised my two seconds were actually one second. Those are my thoughts anyway.

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GovernmentOk3888@reddit

Maybe another consequence of having plenty of unskilled migration leading to people who are not very well educated!

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Discopants180@reddit

On here it's guaranteed to be Covid.

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General-Elephant4970@reddit

A lot of modern cars advertise their smart safety features as a key benefit. And often includes ability to avoid collisions. So people have become more careless I think.

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Belle_TainSummer@reddit

They are only right up your arse if you are going too slow. Lower your right knee a little and watch them fade into the background.

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Kind-County9767@reddit

That is so not true and you know it. How many times do you see a convoy of idiots doing 80 on a motorway with half a second between each other? People just don't leave a stopping gap no matter the speed being done.

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Agitated_Ad_361@reddit

People are ruder than they used to be. Patience really took a nose dive after TikTok and lockdown.

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