What language changes or usages interest you?

[-]

Dazz316@reddit

I more accents, or how people speak. But I always like people from other countries and speaking English. Like Chinese's struggle to say the letters L and R or I always notice how Eastern Europeans struggle with the word Burger and pronouncing it Boor-geh-r.

Reply

[-]

heilhortler420@reddit

Its simillar in Japanese Its why Kojima cyphered the Patriots to La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo in MGS

Reply

[-]

Dazz316@reddit

Can you explain? Familiar with metal gear solid but not any pronunciation differences

Reply

[-]

heilhortler420@reddit

You can't write it in any Japanese alphabet iirc

Reply

[-]

Dazz316@reddit

I'm utterly lost.

Reply

[-]

OpenCantaloupe4790@reddit (OP)

Yeah it’s crazy to me that babies are born capable of making every sound known to human language, but after only a few years, it shuts off and there are now sounds you will simply never be able to produce. I speak Spanish and double r is a real problem for me. I’ve heard “beach/bitch” cited as a classic example of two words that a lot of second language speakers of English struggle to sound differently.

Reply

[-]

SmugDruggler95@reddit

Something I have noticed is that biology does seem to play a part in pronunciation. One of my closest friends growing up is of North African descent and I noticed him pronouncing certain things differently to the rest of us even though he has a completely RP accent and you couldn't distinguish his heritage by his voice. I have since noticed with two other people I know who are from Central/East Africa and they have the same intonation. Im fascinated by accents and I have found this very interesting. And it makes sense to me that as our bodies have adapted over time, typical physical characteristics might have an impact on intonation and pronunciation. Its hard to talk about, because it is based on racial characteristics and thereby toxic to the online wordly. My sample size is tiny and I wouldnt draw any conclusions but I have noticed it. Generally, tall wide men have deep voices. Tiny slight women have higher pitched voices in comparison. Could physical characteristics between say, a typical a Scandinavian man and typical Phillipino man also affect the way their voice is expressed? Maybe too ambiguous and spicy for online discourse but I think its interesting. Sorry for the essay

Reply

[-]

SomeHSomeE@reddit

For most US accents, marry, Mary, and merry are all pronounced the same and they can't pronounce them differently even if they try (and they can't comprehend how they might be pronounced differently until you play them the sounds).

Reply

[-]

Loony_BoB@reddit

The New Zealand accent (which I have) is very subtle with variance between vowel sounds. I grew up thinking hair, here, hear and hare were all said the same, likewise for beer, bear and bare. It was in my late teens when people pointed out that I say them exactly the same, and I was confused because I thought it was correct to do so. I still say them extremely similarly to this day, but I do notice that I have a little more (still extremely subtle) difference to them now.

Reply

[-]

FrDuddleswell@reddit

Does Indiana rhyme with banana? And then, is he Indi-ah-na or Indi-anna Jones?

Reply

[-]

Dazz316@reddit

Northern Irish if the same

Reply

[-]

DameKumquat@reddit

And the cot/caught merger. What does surprise me is the number of Dons naming their daughters Dawn, when they are homophones to them.

Reply

[-]

raphamuffin@reddit

Each country's pronunciation of 'burger' is, perhaps unsurprisingly, directly tied to their pronunciation of the local variant of 'burg'. Sounds just like 'Amburgo' in Italian, 'Strasbourg' in French, etc.

Reply

[-]

Dazz316@reddit

It's not their word, but their pronunciation of ours

Reply

[-]

cornucopia-of-plenty@reddit

Well that's funny, because our pronunciation of Burger originates from English speakers being unable to pronounce it the original German way - something like "Boor-guh"!

Reply

[-]

Dazz316@reddit

That is funny

Reply

[-]

Im_not_a_crackhead@reddit

Someone in my family married a Serb and they always called them “buggers” - he could never understand why the rest of us laughed

Reply

[-]

The_Final_Barse@reddit

Only in the last 10 years, people have started using "myself" when "me" or "I" is perfectly fine. It's so jarring still, but it's here to stay sadly. Also, starting sentences with "So...". That's a new one that's everywhere now.

Reply

[-]

Ok-Decision403@reddit

I think the former issue started because people weren't sure when to use "I" and when to use "me", so went for an (incorrect) alternative. It's something I always associate with a certain kind of salesman, which is very unreasonable of me, given how common it is now! I had a late colleague who always used to begin sentences with "so..." It wasn't as common then, and I always assumed it was something he'd imported with him from Rhodesia in the 70s: but it's absolutely everywhere now, so I just assume he was an early adopter...

Reply

[-]

iamabigtree@reddit

So many times when younger getting told "it's not me and my friend, it's my friend and I".. so just gets avoided entirely.

Reply

[-]

cowbutt6@reddit

I think some people may also think that use of "I" and "me" might come over as inherently narcissistic, and are trying to avoid being perceived that way.

Reply

[-]

Ok-Decision403@reddit

So "myself" is kind of a distancing tactic, or a display of humility? Interesting idea- I hadn't considered that: thank you!

Reply

[-]

cowbutt6@reddit

And, similarly, I wonder if the increased use of "yourself" is a bit like the French "vous", when the speaker might worry that "you"/"tu" might be perceived as impolite by a stranger.

Reply

[-]

balf999@reddit

It is, but it's older than people think. It's hugely increased in recent years, often to the point of absurdity, but it isn't new. I watched a ~30 year old episode of Father Ted recently and noticed Father Ted refer to the Virgn Mary as "herself" in a context when there was no explanation other than formality / politeness.

Reply

[-]

cowbutt6@reddit

The usage has changed though, from, e.g. "plonk yourself over there", or "I heard it from he, himself", to "Please email myself when you've completed that". Irish English (as in Father Ted) also has different idioms from British English.

Reply

[-]

Ok-Decision403@reddit

Also an excellent point - I could see people thinking that's a very direct way of speaking. If I was worried about this, I'd soften that by saying something like "if you could possibly do X, that would really be helpful" but I could definitely see a younger person saying "and then the X will be done by yourself" to create a similar effect. And, of course, the commoner it becomes as a speech pattern, the more widely used it is, as others catch on and use it in a similar way.

Reply

[-]

GreekVicar@reddit

I'd like to agree with you because it jars with me too. However, I've seen many examples on TV programmes from the 50s and 60s. Admittedly, it's nowhere near as prevalent, but it's there

Reply

[-]

Mane_UK@reddit

I love when expressions go wrong on a large scale. And I love when someone says you can't say something because "that's a made-up word" 🤣 Like eggcorns. There is a place where acorns are now called eggcorns just because of their accent and how it devolved, and how they look a bit like eggs, and I suppose they are tree eggs 🤔 Bull in a china shop means out of place, ruining something of which you know insufficient information. Bowl in a china shop is an evolution of that meaning perfectly in place, stacked with the rest of the china bowls where you should be.

Reply

[-]

BadgerBadgerer@reddit

I've never heard eggcorn or bowl in a china shop! Where are they said?

Reply

[-]

Icy_Mixture1482@reddit

I like Chinese for having a single gender-neutral third person pronoun: 他 tā. It can mean he, she, or it depending on context. (Although they did add a female version “她” to copy Western usage, it’s not used much except in Taiwan and is only different in written Chinese, not spoken). I like that their plural pronouns all follow the same pattern of ending in 們 mén. I = wǒ, we = wǒ mén You = nǐ, you (plural) = nǐ mén He/she/it = tā, they = tā mén

Reply

[-]

Guilty-Vermicelli320@reddit

Mandarin Chinese

Reply

[-]

abfgern_@reddit

The seemingly massive increase in usage of the word "yourself". Notice it a lot in 'Traitors' but also in internet/youth-speak (under 30) more widely. Like we're re-introducing nominative/accusative pronouns in effort to seem amiable/respectful/formal. I guess this is how grammar happens, languages are never static.

Reply

[-]

edgyusername99@reddit

i hate this one so much 😅

Reply

[-]

No-Bend-8770@reddit

It’s wild how quickly language shifts! Next thing you know, we’ll all be saying “yourself” for everything.

Reply

[-]

mostly_kittens@reddit

I think people think it makes them seem more well spoken to use myself and yourself instead of me and you. To me it makes me think they are a bit dumb.

Reply

[-]

balf999@reddit

This has definitely increased, but it's not totally new, in the way that people seem to think it is. People have always used "yourself" as a more polite version of "you" (and also "himself", "herself" etc.). Having said that, I still find the massive overuse of it annoying.

Reply

[-]

EarballsAgain@reddit

As a non-TV watcher, do you have any examples? Personally I haven't heard an increase in real life.

Reply

[-]

Luskidoo@reddit

Something like, "if you have any questions come and speak to myself" instead of "speak to me".

Reply

[-]

dolphinboyoo@reddit

I think they mean people saying “I gave a book to yourself earlier today” when “I gave a book to you earlier today” is more than sufficient

Reply

[-]

raphamuffin@reddit

That's not even what they are. They're purely reflexive pronouns and this is a form of hypercorrection that's just completely wrong because apparently nobody understands what sorts of pronouns they're supposed to use. It's maddening.

Reply

[-]

yourwhippingboy@reddit

They’re absolute fiends for it on The Apprentice too

Reply

[-]

average_as_hell@reddit

"arks" instead of "ask" "can I arks you a question?" From a language perspective its counter intuitive as its actually harder to say and language is generally lazy.

Reply

[-]

throarway@reddit

The variant "ax" is as old as "ask"; the latter only became the standard variant c. 1600.

Reply

[-]

average_as_hell@reddit

So I hear and ax is easy to say. Its the "arks" that I have a problem with

Reply

[-]

throarway@reddit

I don't actually have the British "ar" phoneme so I can't replicate what you mean (but I know the sound you mean). It's interesting to hear you find it more difficult!

Reply

[-]

nemmalur@reddit

Arks makes sense if ask has the trap/bath split (ahsk).

Reply

[-]

Tigertotz_411@reddit

The word blanking seems to have been replaced by the word ghosting. "He ghosted me" used to be "he blanked me".

Reply

[-]

No-Bobcat-4737@reddit

Starting a sentence with So . It seems to be getting really popular these days but it gets on my wick

Reply

[-]

Mobile-Proof8861@reddit

I've noticed the upsurge in the word "'replicated" in the UK. People used to say ''copied', 'duplicated', or even 'repeated'. I hear it everywhere.

Reply

[-]

rainz_gainz@reddit

When you get absolutely sloshed and don't come home til the next morning you say you're Jay Slatered.

Reply

[-]

natpoa@reddit

Do I? I hadn't noticed.

Reply

[-]

Dico80@reddit

Putting 'of' after 'off' bothers me (in most cases) as it's usually redundant, i.e. 'he fell off of the wall'.

Reply

[-]

SmugDruggler95@reddit

Definitely guilty of this Think i say some horrible contraction i.e off've

Reply

[-]

Dico80@reddit

You've acknowledged your guilt so will be spared the firing squad, but don't do it again!

Reply

[-]

SmugDruggler95@reddit

I will try my best! I have an RP accent sullied by my Northern heritage. Leaves me with some bizarre bastardisations of the Great British Language that don't make sense on either side of the Watford Gap!

Reply

[-]

PowerApp101@reddit

Yeah...thanks Rolling Stones with Get off of My Cloud

Reply

[-]

arpw@reddit

"Get Off From My Cloud" wouldn't really scan as well in the song!

Reply

[-]

PowerApp101@reddit

Get off my cloud would though, just extend the off slightly. They were trying to be American at that stage.

Reply

[-]

Dico80@reddit

They can be first against the wall!

Reply

[-]

forgetmenotjimmy@reddit

I love when people turn nouns into verbs. It feels very efficient. At uni my friend and I would say stuff like: "just gotta fridge the shopping then we can library"

Reply

[-]

OpenCantaloupe4790@reddit (OP)

Also fun with names, as in: “That manager didn’t last very long did he?” “No, he Liz Trussed it”

Reply

[-]

Delduath@reddit

After watching her youtube channel I'm half convinced she's Chris Morris in a mask. Everything about it is comedy gold

Reply

[-]

pm_me_yur_ragrets@reddit

If there was ever a cause for recognition of satirical genius Mr Morris would get it for this (perhaps swiftly followed by prosecution for the damage done!)

Reply

[-]

Delduath@reddit

You must not have been following her channel. Liz Truss did absolutely nothing wrong when she carried out the actions that experts warned would tank the pound and damage the economy, it was actually all the fault of the deep state, the radical left wokerati and the trotskyest BBC.

Reply

[-]

danielroseman@reddit

Verbing weirds language, as a wise philosopher once said.

Reply

[-]

GreekVicar@reddit

The IT industry has helped verb many nouns ;)

Reply

[-]

cheandbis@reddit

It still winds me up so I'm not sure it totally fits but there is a trend of people using a noun for an adjective. Example being people saying "you're bias" instead of "you're biased". I'm not sure where it has come from.

Reply

[-]

forgetmenotjimmy@reddit

Could be people not saying/hearing the 'ed' of the adjective so just assuming other people are using the noun?

Reply

[-]

DI-Try@reddit

I find the whole rhotic/non rhotic thing interesting. In the UK we used to say our Rs in words like farm, door, cart, beer. In the 1700s-1800s, the upper classes started dropping the r to sound all posh and to distinguish themselves from the lower classes, however they soon followed. Party became more like ‘pahty’, cart is more ‘caht’ In the UK, the further you are from London the more likely you are to still hear the r. Picture how a Cornish person might say party or farm compared to someone more central. It also influenced American accents. As most Americans had already started to settle in the US before the change, they still tend to use the r when they speak. The exception to this is eastern major ports, who continued to experience ongoing English immigration after the change and developed their own non rhotic accent (say party or door in a New York accent). However further west it was a case of people already settled slowly spreading inland and taking the r with them.

Reply

[-]

nemmalur@reddit

I’m interested in how some verbs gain or lose a preposition that goes with it. We used to sort things *out* when solving a problem or completing a task, now it’s mostly just sorted. I remember people used to park their cars, now they “park up” and I’m not sure if that’s subtly different.

Reply

[-]

GreekVicar@reddit

I'm generally interested in the changes our language is constantly going through, as well as how pronunciations change. As a specific, to parallel your example, the redundant addition of "ones" to "these" when indicating a collection of items. e.g. "I'd like these *ones* please". I'm fully aware that this agrees with the singular form which is already pretty much embedded in common usage - "I'd like this *one* please"

Reply

[-]

raphamuffin@reddit

I think this helps to distinguish between various examples of the same type of item and so adds clarity. If you go into a bakery and point out the cakes you'd like you might say 'three of these, please', but if you specifically want the ones at the front you might add 'these ones *here*, please'. Where the distinction isn't needed, it's not usually added - consider going into a corner shop, putting a chocolate bar on the counter and being asked if you want anything else, you might say 'just this, thanks', because you don't need to specify your preference as nobody else is picking something for you.

Reply

[-]

GreekVicar@reddit

But "these here, please" works just as well in that situation. The point being that "ones" is generic and adds nothing to the clause. "There eclares here" would make sense because it qualifies the item, identifying the specific thing being requested. "These ones" is all over the place, even being used in situations where no choice is available. It's even been used in the Words Unravalled podcast when referencing the words they've just been speaking about

Reply

[-]

GaryJM@reddit

I often see verbs on Reddit being regularised, e.g. "the actor was casted in the film" or "the car costed a lot of money" or "the job payed well".

Reply

[-]

Loony_BoB@reddit

Aside from words which literally (and I use that word literally) change the meaning to the opposite of what it was intended, I'm fine with almost any change in language. People get themselves worked up a lot over changes in grammar and phrases, but I find them all interesting. I don't agree with every one of them, and I think some do frustrate me, but I don't hate them. So, I suppose it's more the whole, larger change rather than a single instance that interests me. Still, I can give small example, I suppose: The spelling of the word 'fence'. In America, they changed 'defence' to 'defense' and 'offence' to 'offense'... but 'fence' is still 'fence'. On the one hand, even though I prefer 'defence' (and before anyone says it, I also prefer 'center' so I can swing both ways in spelling preferences), I can still understand *why* they would make this change to defense - it does have a 's' sound after all. But why one and not the other? That's the part that interests me.

Reply

[-]

nemmalur@reddit

I think the argument for defense, offense is that defensive and offensive already have an S so that would make it consistent, whereas fence only has fenced and fencing.

Reply

[-]

Boldboy72@reddit

word meanings have often changed over the centuries of the existence of English. Awful used to mean very good (now replaced by awesome) as in Delight becoming Delightful, Awe became Awful. Did you know that Warranty and Guarantee are actually the same word? Guarantee comes from French and Warranty comes from Norman French. G was pronounced as W in Norman French (William the conquerer was Guillame but pronounced William). Other words like Slut or Nice had completely different meanings to our understanding today.

Reply

[-]

Mane_UK@reddit

Words becoming their own antonyms is always funny. Difficult. But funny. There are places in the USA where can has the antonym can' (short for can't, short for cannot). It's REALLY difficult to tell if someone said "I can' do that" or "I can do that" it's an emphasis thing.

Reply

[-]

arpw@reddit

Are you sure that's not just from the way that the American pronunciation of the letter T can often sound like a D, so that "can't do that" ends up sounding like "can'd do that", with the two Ds then merging into one another?

Reply

[-]

Mane_UK@reddit

It very much feels like an extention of that, but yes I am certain of the fact that it is can and can'. No t no d (571 selim?) on the end. Just can and can with a slightly different emphasis. It is with every usage, and I now appreciate I gave a bad example - sorry for that; I can' think of a better one... Then you are waiting to see if the better example is forthcoming, but that's how they get you! 🤣 I think it was a thing in their popular music for a while, but I don't know the order of things or how it came about.

Reply

[-]

arpw@reddit

Hmm with it being about a difference in emphasis, I think it could be better described by weak and strong forms of the word "can". There's an [amazing YouTube video](https://youtu.be/EaXYas58_kc) describing this if you have 8 minutes to spare!

Reply

[-]

Mane_UK@reddit

I sort of agree. Hearing is definitely a can't with the t dropped off, but in absolute description terms yes. Also length and tail-off are different. It's really funny though. Contextually it was usually obvious, so not really a problem, but sometimes more clarity or certainty is required. I'll try to watch the vid later, thanks 👍

Reply

[-]

arpw@reddit

Actually here's an even better one that is literally about the can/can't distinction https://youtu.be/qlbGtEg68x4

Reply

[-]

Mane_UK@reddit

Thanks 😁 It's so variable around the world, where I currently live it is kan and carrrnt. Very different to my own accent. I've only that one small experience of them being almost identical. Of course many people substitute can when they mean may or should, but that's a different matter.

Reply

[-]

OpenCantaloupe4790@reddit (OP)

I’ve been reading quite a few 1930s books and one change I’ve noticed is ‘pathetic’ Pathetic then just neutrally meant ‘arousing feeling’, rather than today’s addition of pity. So if you saw someone down on their luck in the street and said “it was a pathetic sight” that wouldn’t mean you were pitying or disparaging the person, it just meant, the sight aroused feeling in you.

Reply

[-]

arpw@reddit

That's a really interesting one, and ties in nicely to the word "apathetic"!

Reply

[-]

laredocronk@reddit

The phrase "have a nice *rest of your day*" seems to have become popular recently, particularly in retail and hospitality. But not just in big chains - people in lots of smaller places say it as well. I'm not really sure where this has come from - was it some big push by corporates that's become more widely adopted? Were being people arsey about being told "have a nice day" if their day had been crap up until now?

Reply

[-]

ben_jamin_h@reddit

a lot - alot and a while - awhile are interesting recent changes. A few years back I was correcting people about it but then I realised I was just being an old man shouting at the sky, and was actually witnessing a change in spelling in real time

Reply

[-]

throarway@reddit

"alot" has been around a really long time but has so far resisted being an accepted variant (it still gets called out *a lot*). "apart" has surprised me, as have "nevermind" and "eachother", in the sense that they are starting to go completely unnoticed in informal contexts (particularly the latter two).

Reply

[-]

ben_jamin_h@reddit

Oh yeah. Also 'bestfriend' is now apparently just one word. That's a weird one too!

Reply

[-]

rainbow84uk@reddit

I had my natural pedantry kicked out of me by doing a linguistics degree, so I'm usually good at just observing language change, but the rise of "apart" to mean "a part" drives me mad. They have (or had) almost opposite meanings!

Reply

[-]

GreekVicar@reddit

You're a kindred spirit, I no longer shout into the void either

Reply

[-]

mountainousbarbarian@reddit

The creoles developing in Philippines and India are absolutely fascinating to me, I wonder what they'll be like in a few generations.

Reply

[-]

cowbutt6@reddit

"Sorry" used as "excuse me", rather than "oops, I made a mistake that impacted you".

Reply

[-]

FlockBoySlim@reddit

Feel like that ones been around a long time

Reply

[-]

cowbutt6@reddit

I've only noticed it in the last decade or so. I'm not sure if people avoid using "excuse me" because they feel that it's always passive aggressive (though it certainly *can* be, depending on intonation), or whether it's being confused with "pardon"/"pardon me", especially by people who don't speak English as their first language, and their first language uses one of those for "excuse me".

Reply

[-]

BuncleCar@reddit

I don't know why but 'y'all' irritates me. It makes something simple more unnecessarily complicated

Reply

[-]

arpw@reddit

I believe the lack of separate singular and plural second-person pronouns in English is a major flaw with the language. I'm not saying that "y'all" is the best way to address that, but I'd like to see it addressed nonetheless. Similarly I'd like to see a pronoun for the third-person unknown/neutral gender animate that isn't the same as the third person plural.

Reply

[-]

BuncleCar@reddit

Decades ago I knew a German who was learning English to be a teacher in Germany. He said it could be difficult to know when to change from Sue to Du with people you'd just met, so he appreciated just having You when speaking English.

Reply

[-]

arpw@reddit

Yeah the formal/informal you distinction can absolutely get in the bin. Serves no useful purpose. Annoying in Spanish and French too. Interestingly, the Swedish language used to have an even more ridiculous level of formality in how you addressed people, but then in the 60s they [pretty much did away with it and switched to a single word for the singular you](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen), as part of a broader trend of modernisation and equality in society.

Reply

[-]

deathmetalbestmetal@reddit

Absolutely despise the proliferation of ‘use case’ where ‘use’ would suffice. ‘Use case’ is a term of art with niche relevance in ordinary language. Similarly, the insistence that venomous snakes are not poisonous is confused because again, biologists have no authority over ordinary language.

Reply

[-]

arpw@reddit

The omission of prepositions and connecting words. You hear things like "I'm going gym", "let's go pub" very commonly in Estuary/Essex dialect, for example, and I think it's spreading.

Reply

[-]

Mane_UK@reddit

I also love changing the emphasis on words or generally pronouncing stuff weird. I've travelled and lived around a lot of different accents. I've never lived in Wales or Australia but people usually ask me if I am from there. Anyway, I really love hearing everyone's accents and using whatever pronunciation will be funny and memorable - it gets the point across and people remember it.

Reply

[-]

Lopsided-Camel1114@reddit

As you said.changes to language is an infinite thing .

Reply

[-]

KeyJunket1175@reddit

I am a foreign speaker of English, I was taught the Cambridge dictionary pronunciation and the full extent of the grammar. It is certainly interesting to see how far this is from reality. I have a strong eastern european accent, yet I find this and most foreign accents closer to what I was taught to be "true" versus how people actually speak here. Also, it seems, in practice, people tend to avoid the more complex temporal tenses and grammatical structures. This is something I welcome.

Reply

[-]

OpenCantaloupe4790@reddit (OP)

Yes I think everyday language definitely tends towards simplicity! Interestingly I saw a video the other day explaining Auld Lang Syne, which begins “Should old acquaintance be forgot…” The video went out of its way to explain that ‘should’ here is not a question (“should we forget old friendships?”) but rather an if statement (“If we should forget our old friendships…”) I always thought that was obvious but it struck me this usage of should (“Should you have any problems, don’t hesitate to contact me”) is getting rarer and there might be younger people now who haven’t been exposed to it.

Reply

[-]

AutoModerator@reddit

**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - When replying to submission/post please **make genuine efforts to answer the question given**. Please no jokes, judgements, etc. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Reply

Reply to Post

107 Comments