Expats in the Netherlands: how satisfied are you with the healthcare system?

[-]

SandroJungle@reddit

Have anyone ever experienced going to the GP and get a prescription based on the GP's grandma's knowledge? "Cut an onion and put beside the bed."

I have a 9 month old baby, and he has some cold like symptoms, intermittent 40 degree fever and rashes since December, and every month we go to the GP and consultatie bureau to ask for an investigation.

In December: it is the winter effect. In January: it is because he joined daycare. In February: is it polen. Now, in March: Last week I went to the GP with my wife and son because the symptoms didn't go away with 4 month of prescription of paracetamol. The doctor then made the comment followed by the incredible prescription worth years of study and knowledge improvement and all the support from Dutch Healthcare: "What I see is a healthy happy boy! But as my grandmother would say: cut an onion and put beside his bed."

I wanted to laugh, and at the same time slap the guy in the face to see if he wakes up and starts practicing. But tried diplonacy and after using all my negotiation skills, different strategies and advanced communication approaches, I told the doctor that I didn't want another assumption of what my son has, I needed real interest. He was VERY reluctant, even after 9 months me asking for a consultation with the pediatrician, he made the referral.

Is that the average? Did I had bad luck with this guy?

Everytime I go there I get so frustrated, but still didn't find another available GP.

[-]

RMWK@reddit

Hi, everyone -- This has been a very enlightening conversation for me, so I appreciate everyone who contributed. I've been considering trying to relocate to NL, and I guess I just assumed that healthcare there would be great. This is giving me pause, because I do have some health stuff (not serious, but could certainly get serious with neglectful/incompetent treatment) -- and not being taken seriously by medical professionals makes me furious.

The conversation left me with a couple of questions that I hope people have feedback on -- apologies if they're at the "have you ever heard of google?" level ...
+ How much choice do folks have in getting a GP? In my experience in the U.S., you're allowed to pick anyone in-network -- as long as they're accepting new patients, don't have a long waiting time for appointments, etc. But if you want to see a new GP quickly, your options become *much* more limited. And sometimes, even when you make an appointment with a specific doctor, you might end up getting a different physician from the practice, with no warning and no reason why.
+ Similarly, if you find that your GP is incompetent, is there a system for reporting them that actually has influence or repercussions for the practitioner? And if you see someone who's incompetent, or even just "not a match" personality/style-wise, what are the options for "shopping around" until you find someone you like?
+ It's my understanding from NL locals and expats that the communication culture in NL is straightforward to the point of being blunt. (I assume it's somewhat similar to the communication culture I've experienced in Germany?) I'm originally from a part of the U.S. where politeness supercedes all other considerations; but after living in New York for many years, I got better at being more direct. Is it possible in an appointment to flat-out say, "I want to use the treatment plan my specialist in Italy recommended, not the one you recommended," or "I understand that you don't think that this test is necessary, but I know how much pain I'm in and I want that test"?

One hack that has started to spread in the U.S. is that any time a doctor seems dismissive of a patient's experience or refuses to order a test, the patient (or advocate) will say, "Fine. I want you to put in writing on practice/hospital letterhead that you were specifically asked to perform this test / give this treatment, and that in your professional medical opinion, it was unnecessary; and then I want you to sign and date it." People usually end up getting the test/treatment at that point. But I know that the U.S. has a super-litigious culture, and I'm not sure what the laws on malpractice are in NL, so I'm not sure how effective that would be there.

Apologies for the long post! I appreciate anyone who takes the time to (constructively) respond. Thanks!

[-]

SDV01@reddit

I don’t think this thread is representative of the actual situation. What you’re seeing here is largely confirmation bias: people who are unhappy or anxious are far more likely to respond, while those whose experiences were uneventful or positive usually stay silent. That skews the picture and makes problems seem far more common than they are.

“Expats” are not a special protected class. At this point, more than half of Amsterdam’s residents were born abroad. Some newcomers who call themselves expats are in fact American immigrants seeking affordable healthcare for expensive conditions, without ever having paid into the system, abusing the DAFT visa.

What many US newcomers don’t seem to understand is that the Dutch healthcare system is not based on a “customer is king” model. You can’t demand tests, exams, treatments, referrals or statement. Your huisarts will not be impressed by self-diagnoses, prescriptions from foreign doctors, demands for antibiotics because you have a cough, or license revoking threats.

Be clear and calm about your symptoms when speaking to the triagist. Don’t be confrontational with your huisarts. For serious conversations, bring a Dutch speaker so nothing gets lost in translation. And trust that if there is a real medical issue, you will be cared for very well, quickly, and without going bankrupt.

[-]

RMWK@reddit

Thanks for your response. I agree that confirmation bias can skew the data in a situation like this, and I'm trying to take that into account as I read this thread ...

Those numbers about Amsterdam's born-abroad residents are surprising. To be clear, I personally am looking to relocate permanently outside the U.S., including contributing to the economy and social safety net; and while I do have some health issues, they're well-controlled and not likely to get worse as long as I have competent care, so this isn't a case of medical tourism.

My question about communicating with one's doctor was more a question of style -- I've heard that the upfront style of communication in NL can be surprising sometimes if someone's from a place with a more roundabout communication culture, and wondered if some folks who've had frustrations were trying to communicate in a way that didn't mesh with their physician's.

I do think that it's important to advocate for oneself (or a loved one) -- particularly when you feel that you're not being taken seriously. For instance, studies have shown that in the U.S., physicians often diminish the experience and discount the pain/concern voiced by women and people of color. Those people deserve to have their concerns taken seriously, and the method of advocating I mentioned began in those communities.

I appreciate your perspective -- I had a great experience in Sweden years ago, and assume that NL is doing its best to take care of the people who live here. I also assume that your feedback is coming from a place of knowledge about, and pride in, NL's healthcare system -- though some of your wording makes me wonder if it's coming more from and anti-foreigner / anti-immigrant / Wilders / PPV place, which would color my reaction to your points. No need to confirm either way or respond at all -- I take your positions at face value and appreciate them as teh qualitative data that they are.

[-]

juicyjuicery@reddit

Honestly the Dutch are direct but the doctors are next level assholes and they know it’s because they hold all the power and can’t successfully be sued

[-]

Intelligent_Ad2526@reddit

Do you live in the Netherlands? I do. Their healthcare system is horrible! But don’t worry. I am leaving so there will be an opening! And I am an expat since I arrived on a 5 year fixed contract with a special tax treatment ( not the 30 rule). Never paid a single Euro in taxes and glad to leave. Major reason? Healthcare.

[-]

Mysterious_Button_47@reddit

Same, I couldn't even wait until 5 years period will end, left after 4 and glad intuition worked, as I would walk with a stick and my left arm wouldn't move from the shoulder down anymore, I am still not as healthy as I as before evolving there but I am doing gym, hikes, swimming and definitely mobile, I also went to therapy because of the pain I endured and helplessness I felt. Im glad I am in a completely different dimension now, and I will never stay silent about abusive dutch Healthcare. One of most abusive sociopaths I ever met was dutch company doctor who yelled at me because I was in pain, yay.

[-]

Intelligent_Ad2526@reddit

The arrogance of the GPs was always shocking. Took my two kids to see a Dutch GP because they had high fevers (even after taking kids cold medicine for days). The GP looked at me and asked “What do you want me to do?l” and referred me to a Dutch healthcare website the said until their temperature was 40c or higher they don’t do anything. Left and took them to see a German doctor who ran a blood test and prescribed antibiotics based on the results. WTF? That was my last visit to that Dutch clinic. I hope the Dutch weaboos enjoy their time in NL.

[-]

Mysterious_Button_47@reddit

Damn you reminded me their famous "what do you want me to do?" ☠️

[-]

carnivorousdrew@reddit

The system is shit. And your points are mainly a joke and insult to the people hurt by such demented ponzi scheme system. You are just making a fool of yourself for even remotely attempting to defend it. Might as well confess you have a calendar of CZ CEO in your bathroom.

[-]

AntiDynamo@reddit

Practically no choice at all. In theory you can sign up for whatever practice you like, but in reality most only accept new patients within 15 minutes of the practice, and most of those will be full (not accepting new patients). You may have to go through your insurance to force someone to take you.
Probably, not sure how effective it would be - haven’t used it myself
Yes, you can be direct in an appointment. But they can be equally direct back in refusing.
I don’t imagine that would work often here. The GP will just refuse. May even refuse to sign your little letter, since it doesn’t mean anything and isn’t real.

[-]

RMWK@reddit

Thanks for the feedback -- the info on choosing / getting assigned to a practice is especially helpful.

I think I might have over-sold my enthusiasm for this approach. It seems like people think I'm suggesting that people walk into any meeting with this option front-of-mind. That's definitely not the case.
It's mostly been used by women and people of color in the U.S. to try to create accountability when they feel that they're receiving unequal care because of race or sex (or immigrant status, sexual orientation, etc.). It's certainly not the first step in a discussion or something to be used in every situation.
And it usually doesn't get to the actual letter stage -- the request usually either makes a physician look at their decision again and reëvaluate the level of pain/discomfort a patient is in if they're advocating so strongly for themselves or a loved one. The self-advocacy is the point, not the piece of paper.
It'd be silly to say that in the U.S. the concern over evidence in a malpractice suit isn't part of the reason why someone would rather just give a test than sign a letter -- but again, that's kind of the point: to make the doctor ask emself, "Might I be committing malpractice by not ordering this test / considering this treatment? Or am I rock-solid in my conviction that this is a waste of time and resources?"
Of course, people can and do sue for malpractice without any sort of letter or written proof (in the U.S.). And even if someone were to sign such a letter, it wouldn't necessarily indicate malpractice: a physician can genuinely believe something to the best of their knowledge and training, and be wrong -- doctors are human.

Having said that, some of the information that's been shared with me here, as well as the way some of that information was communicated, has made me second-guess my choice of NL as my first immigration choice. (Maybe that was partly the point in some cases?) In any event, I appreciate the feedback.

[-]

AntiDynamo@reddit

Yeah, I think that would mostly be seen as a weak/childish/weird attempt at manipulation more than anything. A GP would not be encouraged to re-evaluate their opinion, except maybe to re-evaluate having you on their books.

Self-advocacy in NL tends to only work based on facts - you present data explaining your position. Attempts at emotional manipulation won't land, or won't go over well.

Consider that the letter only counts as "self-advocacy" in the US because of litigation culture. It's not self-advocacy if you cannot actually sue.

[-]

RMWK@reddit

So I guess my question is, how does one self-advocate? If a patient feels very strongly that they're being carelessly, prejudicially, or incompetently treated, what can the patient do? Even folks who are defending the system here give me the impression that it's rare for a doctor to reconsider a diagnosis / course of action. It sounds like there aren't really any options for people who believe they are - or actually ARE - getting bad treatment.

[-]

AntiDynamo@reddit

You present the facts in an dispassionate way. If they refuse then you would calmly organise a transfer to a different GP in that practice when you got home, or spend a few weeks looking for a new practice nearby accepting patients. I think you can also request review by a specialist but the specialist only recommends treatment, they don't take over from the GP.

[-]

RMWK@reddit

Ah, so in the end, not so different from the U.S. -- including, based on some of the feedback I've seen here, the difficulty of finding a nearby clinic taking new patients ... Are general practitioners in NL gatekeepers to specialists? For example, most specialists in the U.S. won't even schedule an appointment for someone without a referral from the patient's GP -- so if a GP won't give you a referral, you have to go find a *different* GP (which can involve wait times, extra cost, etc.) just to try to get a specialist referral.

I think I understand what you mean about presenting data. Other feedback has indicated that GPs are entirely unimpressed with international doctors' recommendations, information that the patient has researched (there's a lot you can learn about your condition beyond just "Dr. Google"), and past patient experience. So I'm guessing you mean data in terms of, "On this date at this time, my body temperature was X; on this other date at this time, my body temperature after eating [food] was X, and my digestion was disrupted in the following ways; on this third date ..." So not trying to suggest what the diagnosis might be; just giving as much data as you can for the doctor to use. Am I parsing that correctly?

I'm sorry to hear about your treatment in the U.K. While it sounds to me like there are some things that the U.K. system does well, the British system on the whole definitely has some blind spots around certain issues. I'm glad to hear that you're getting a better response in NL.

[-]

AntiDynamo@reddit

Yeah, I get migraines so for me it's about presenting data for every attack I've ever had, medication doses and responses, symptoms, and how it affects my functioning. So you wouldn't tell them you're in 11/10 pain, you'd explain that you were unable to work and could not move to go to the bathroom. Emotional distress is not really a factor in NL healthcare, only how a condition physically impacts you. GPs are definitely gatekeepers to specialist treatment in NL as well, they're the gatekeepers to the entire medical system

[-]

RMWK@reddit

All really useful info. Thanks!

[-]

SpaceBall330@reddit

I can only answer to the malpractice question. My spouse was misdiagnosed with cancer. ( my comments in the thread) I wanted to sue to the pants off the doctor that made that misdiagnosis because had been caught any later than it was, I would have been newlywed widow.

We did speak to several lawyers who informed us that while we had a good case it would be difficult at best to sue for malpractice. It’s been a while since these conversations but what it boiled down to was that we couldn’t sue for full compensation, pain and suffering, and having their medical license revoked. Because it doesn’t work that way in the Netherlands as there is a set amount. End of story. My spouse is very bitter about all of this.

My home country, US, would have more than likely would have awarded a large settlement, license revocation, etc.

My spouse isn’t the only one that has been in this particular situation either.

[-]

RMWK@reddit

I suspected that there were probably much different laws regarding malpractice ...

It's a paradox: on the one hand, insurance and the litigious culture in the U.S. (I'm also from the U.S., to be clear) can warp doctors' approaches to care here; but on the other hand, there's a way to actually hold doctors and organizations responsible for negligent or incompetent behavior. I'm theoretically in favor of doctors (in NL or anywhere) feeling secure to follow the course of action that they think is best; but then it sounds like the NL system insulates some physicians from the concerns of their patients or communities.

Of course, all I can go on is what I'm seeing here; and I know that this is qualitative, not quantitative data. But I really appreciate the additional perspective. Thanks for your response!

[-]

Millennial_Snowbird@reddit

This was years ago but the Dutch neurologist I fought to be referred to told me they were using older criteria for diagnosing MS and didn’t think I needed treatment or monitoring on that basis. Annual MRIs and physical exams are standard for stable MS disease in most developed countries and I was in NL for 3+ years with zero MRIs or follow up. The whole system seemed designed to be as cheap as possible regardless of patient outcomes. “Come back when you need a wheelchair.” My huisarts also chided me that annual exams were not a thing. I was glad to move back to Canada and get proper monitoring and preventative treatment.

[-]

carnivorousdrew@reddit

It's because it wants to be private and insurance based as the US one but with the fake socialism of subsidies and none of the litigious options (suing hospital/doctors easily). They just need to be sued until they learn the lesson. But yeah, it's a broken system and probably the worst in Europe.

[-]

juicyjuicery@reddit

💯 exactly this. This system combines the worst aspects of privatized and socialized medicine

[-]

carnivorousdrew@reddit

Ruined me for life. It's the worst system I have ever experienced, and you cannot trust the GPs, they are subjugated by the insurance companies, if you need preventive care (which is usually the vast majority of people) don't count on it.

[-]

RMWK@reddit

It never surprises me to hear that insurance companies are the problem ...

[-]

Mysterious_Button_47@reddit

I feel you. I needed MRI and CT scans, proper anti-inflammatory and pain management, the inflammation was visible from outside and all I got from my imbecile GP was " have you tried to combine paracetamol with ibumetin?" I went to my country and I had inflammatory autoimmune joint and spine disease that costed me 3000Eur to manage, and literally every doctor told me that if it was treated in the beginning, everything would be fine and I wouldn't need those expensive treatments.

[-]

Accprova@reddit

I had pretty bad SAD, I was recommended to a mental health specialist. His suggestion? Try not being sad. I swear those are the words he said.

I got my blood taken, the nurse didn't even bother to clean my arm with alcohol before piercing. I should have to tell her.

My wife has basically given up on getting care here. Doctors just dismiss her symptoms and refuse to do the exams she requests, so she flies back to her own country every few months for analysis and treatments.

[-]

ZefkeMols@reddit

I got my blood taken, the nurse didn't even bother to clean my arm with alcohol before piercing. I shouldn't have to tell her.

No you shouldn't because it's not necessary keep up with latest developments (+20 years old)

[-]

juicyjuicery@reddit

I gave a stool sample and the woman collecting it (who also took my blood) did not wear gloves or wash her hands!!! 🤢🤢🤢

I filed a formal complaint online and this quality control person called me to discuss it and she actually asked “was there poop outside the vial? Did she use the same hand to touch it?” She confirmed it was “fine and within protocol” since the woman used her other hand and there was no visible poop outside the vial. Seriously unbelievably disgusting.

[-]

juicyjuicery@reddit

Healthcare in the Netherlands is a disgrace. My GP once told me that he had “9 cups of coffee” before work at 7am. (Um, ok?). I’ve had more than one GP since I lived here write me wrong referrals to places, refuse to honor my wishes for preventative testing on numerous occasions, use Google in front of me to “google the problem together.” Overall GPs are unprofessional and the field is a joke with how little schooling they need and how overburdened they are with patients. Also WTF is this 5 minute appointment and needing 10 minutes for a “double appointment”, and only being allowed to discuss one issue per visit as if it isn’t A) hard enough to find a time slot for an appointment at all, and B) the case that problems are interconnected in your body.

I’ve been turned away from the hospital with a broken bone because it was past 5pm on a weekday and I didn’t have a GP referral : WTF

I’ve been waitlisted for over 2 years for a specialist.

My concerns have been routinely dismissed and I’ve been misdiagnosed and mismanaged on numerous levels. On top of all this the bullshit data management here makes it impossible for patients to transfer their own files. Low key I’m American and I never thought I’d say this but this system makes me miss American healthcare. Despite it being expensive, at least American healthcare workers are generally more competent and express more open-mindedness and empathy.

[-]

juicyjuicery@reddit

I was turned away from the hospital for having a broken hand and no referral from my GP (it was after 5pm). Even the off hours urgent care told me to wait until tomorrow for a referral.

I was waitlisted for 2 years for mental healthcare treatment. Along with a lot of other unethical shit happening related to this.

Healthcare in the Netherlands is a fucking disgrace. Pay for private care if you have anything serious.

[-]

Technical-Neck7407@reddit

It depends on your GP. It is the luck of the draw. We’ve finally got a good GP who takes me seriously and orders tests and has no problem referring me to specialists. I’ve never had to wait very long for a specialist. That said, if something is seriously wrong or I feel it needs immediate attention I march directly into an emergency room. I’ve never been turned away. I suspected a heart attack a white back but the sonogram at the ER revealed an extremely infected gallbladder with gallstones. I was immediately admitted and whisked into surgery the next morning. I avoid the huisartsenpost like the plague. They sent me home with zero meds for Bell’s Palsy 20 years ago and the left half of my face is still paralyzed. I should have gone to an ER because their protocol is prescribing prednisone, which was desperately needed to take down the swelling so my facial nerve wouldn’t die. I’ll never make that mistake again.

I do the usual government preventative tests, but we have gone elsewhere for yearly preventive checkups with MRI, etc. I was able to get a bone density check from my specialist here, and I have been able to get some preventative tests but I have to ask for them. It isn’t always possible to know which tests I need. When we’ve visited South America we’ve gone for comprehensive testing very cheaply.

[-]

LoyalteeMeOblige@reddit

Argentinian here, out of curiosity, where are you from?

[-]

Technical-Neck7407@reddit

US

[-]

LoyalteeMeOblige@reddit

Of course he did. Argentina’s doctors are all above preventive care. Here they would let you reach death's doors before trying anything. Or God forbid running an actual check on your health.

[-]

TinyWabbit01@reddit

Really bad, don't want to go into details but basically a problem was overlooked for 5 years. While the solution could have been super easy. And the GP responsible was extremely dismissive of even acknowledging that they overlooked standard procedures..

That's the most frustrating part, I understand you can't know everything. But not even giving an apology..

[-]

Mysterious_Button_47@reddit

Right? When I was seeking the ways to file a formal complaint against my GP for obvious negligence and causing aggravated outcomes from something that could be avoided with 2 CT scans and proper medication, the only path was to involve "mediator" who "will help us to TALK" Like, I talked many times, we both spoke very fluent English, my symptoms were visible without involving any diagnostic, I explicitly asked for diagnostics, which I was debied. all the NL can offer is "to talk" I am so sorry for thousands of people who becomes crippled monthly/yearly and their lives being ruined by this horrendous "health" system

[-]

TinyWabbit01@reddit

I agree the blatant neglect will cause so much more harm. And when you try to talk to other Dutch people it's a no go. Their healthcare seems to be a part of their national pride. Criticism isn't allowed.

I've only gotten further with some very good Dutch friends who I've known for many years. And they trust my judgement.

[-]

AntiDynamo@reddit

It hasn’t been too bad for me so far though I’ve had limited contact with them, and my previous experience was in the UK. I’d say my health issues are taken more seriously here in NL than in UK, but the system is slower than that in Australia.

Though it was awful trying to sort out recurring prescriptions without insurance, as I don’t yet have my residence card.

[-]

marachella@reddit

We moved out of NL last year. I previously lived in a few other countries, we were in NL for 5 years, two of which with a newborn child. I had to build cases to be taken seriously by my GP practice. One of the doctor scolded me for reporting to him the advice my long time specialist in Italy gave me in case I experienced ear infections and forced me to a procedure he thought would fix my issue while my specialist in Italy told me absolutely to avoid it, all because this GP didn’t want to trust a foreign doctor nor send me to a local specialist. This is just one of the examples. I got to a point where I would be stressed showing up at my GP because I knew they would dismiss me. On top of this, in NL you can’t access private care without GP referrals so you’re back to square one. Now we’re in the UK where people complain a lot about the health system but it does not compare to the level of arrogance and the general practice to stop people from getting access to specialists in order to I guess save money. In my experience, in the UK GPS listen to you concerns, send you to specialists and if the waiting is too long if you can afford it you can go private. Not ideal and I’m in full support of public healthcare but at least there’s options.

[-]

carnivorousdrew@reddit

Italian family doctors are nuclear scientist to what a Dutch GP would be a child with off-brand megablocks.

[-]

deedeeEightyThree@reddit

My spouses serious symptoms were dismissed until she got to the point where she had sepsis. Even then, she was initially dismissed and sent home once again at the hospital (after being told to go in by the huisartspost) and then had to return the next morning when she was literally dying of sepsis. After a 5 day hospital stay they managed to save her… but I can’t help but wonder if she never would have gotten that ill if they’d just treated her original infection properly in the first place. We are grateful that she’s alive but it shouldn’t have ever gotten so dire.

[-]

deedeeEightyThree@reddit

I want to add that overall our GP has been fine. Very reluctant to ever prescribe antibiotics, but I understand their reasoning and overall I have been ok with this. Usually most infections in fact do self resolve with time and rest. The problem we’ve encountered, though, is that as regular people we haven’t been able to tell when it’s serious enough to warrant medication or further testing. So we can’t always just know what we need and then ask or push for it. If a GP tells us they think we’re fine we believe them… they are medically trained, after all, why shouldn’t we? We’ve lived here almost three years maybe there’s a learning curve and it will get easier. But while my wife was in the emergency room for example she had confusion as part of the sepsis. She certainly couldn’t describe her symptoms well and advocate for herself hardly at all and as someone who is not trained in medicine I didn’t feel comfortable pushing for things I didn’t know she needed. From my experience there needs to be a little bit more of the doctor advocating for the patient especially in situations involving serious or complex illnesses where a non medically trained person wouldn’t necessarily know what they need

[-]

carnivorousdrew@reddit

If you have a deficiency of vitamin D under 9 and the GP tells you to just take the 800UI daily from the supermarket to solve it, they are either illiterate or being knowingly deceitful.

If you have a dermatitis that will not go away with cortisol cream A and they just tell you to use brand B which has the same compounds, they are either illiterate or being deceitful.

If you are in ER with a fever that has been going on for days and the antibiotics you were given are doing nothing and your kidney hurts and they say "you should probably go home and rest, not get hospitalized, only to then find out you were going into sepsis, they are either illiterate or being deceitful.

The only way to make them do their job is to put the money on the table and say "if you don't do what you are really supposed to do I will sue the living shit out of you and your clinic, put my whole life savings into suing you". Otherwise they will try to save the clinic every last penny at your expenses.

[-]

b2q@reddit

The primary care in Netherlands is one of the best if not the best of the world:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5904289/

[-]

TinyWabbit01@reddit

This is from 2018.. a lot has happened between 2018 and now 2026.

[-]

b2q@reddit

It is a scientific recent article (there are way more) but it goes against the general opinion of expats.

[-]

DrunKeN-HaZe_e@reddit

If you come from, say, the Congo, you'll like it

The system is slow, broken and backward.

[-]

PowerOfTheShihTzu@reddit

Hurr durr murica

[-]

SpaceBall330@reddit

My Dutch spouse nearly died because the GP never bothered to do a simple MRI after my spouse explained that the physical therapy wasn’t working. Turned out to be a very aggressive form of cancer in the spinal cord. It was left untreated for months. My spouse lost the ability to walk without assistance while doing massive rounds of chemotherapy for months. It took almost two years of very intensive rehabilitation so my spouse could walk again.

Myself I had a chronic condition misdiagnosed until I got angry, and hauled myself to Erasmus in Rotterdam for a consultation as its a teaching hospital/clinic. The doctor with their students after reviewing blood work the correct diagnosis was made within a few minutes.

I actively avoid the GP except for scheduled follow up tests. They are awful. The specialists I have are good which seems to be a thing in The Netherlands.

Our concerns taken seriously is a joke. See above.

Long waiting times depends on what specialty you need to see.

Compared to my home country (US) which is not without its problems ( too expensive ) it’s abysmal. It’s truly luck of the draw if you get a good, caring doctor who is actually willing to do their job properly. Don’t even get me started about dentists which suck too.

[-]

Girlirl@reddit

For all the good gps I’ve had here and the amazing care I received for emergency surgery, I’ll never forget the GP who said “what is it NOW?!” It wasn’t said in a joking or friendly way - she was annoyed. As if the huge lump in my breast was something I just wanted attention for. I got the care I needed after she begrudgingly examined me, but I’ve never been treated so rudely by a healthcare professional. Sorry, but some of us will have more than one complaint in a year.

[-]

patty_victor@reddit

It depends a lot on the GP you have. I have had a decent one and my care so far has been satisfactory. Not amazing, but I was always taken care of.

[-]

Mental_Coyote_1007@reddit

not only GP, but almost 90% of the dutch ortopedic surgeons + radiologs should take 6 years of medicine education again. They dont even have the knowledge of a medicine interns

[-]

Mental_Coyote_1007@reddit

I was able to get an MRI but the dutch radiolog interpreted it wrong. I took a second mri in my home country and doublechecked the first and second mri with the doctors there and they told me that the dutch radiolog couls have been just a newbie, whereas he did somehow have 20 years of experience... What a joke

[-]

miss_expectations@reddit

Honestly a mixed bag, but it's the same in the UK and for my particular condition, the US too. You have to find the right people and they are not always immediately available to you.

I had three main gps, one of whom was brilliant. Thought outside the box, consulted with people at the hospital to get better guidance on treatment/management. Wonderful. Got long covid and had to retire. Second was head of the practice. I didn't live in an English speaking area so she struggled with her confidence (as did I). Did try her best to refer me to useful places, but ultimately didn't help much. The third one was brought in after everyone was completely burnt out from covid and she was awful - tried to blame a kidney infection on a mental health condition? Very random.

Specialists were the same. I was absolutely amazed that my lung consultant looked at my weird breathing issues and just... called the neurologist, right then. That never, ever happens in the UK. Unfortunately she then forgot to arrange an appointment for me that set me back years. At least two sets of specialists were dismissive as all hell - traumatising really. Some tried their best but ran out of ideas and just stopped trying.

I honestly don't know that any dutch person would pay extra money on top of insurance (it's not like you can quit paying insurance, the basic fee is mandatory) to talk to a different doctor who may well be as incompetent as any they'd encounter in the public health system? I think they'd really struggle to see the advantages of private over public - except they maybe wouldn't recommend paracetamol and walking quite so much. There's also no real way to link up between a private gp and the public hospital system - there are no private specialist consultants and the public ones won't give you priority. I really think you'd struggle to get any traction.

[-]

OK-Smurf-77@reddit

• How satisfied are you with access to care through your GP (huisarts)? Been to a few of them because of moving. I never had any problem with accessing. From time to time you need to be assertive (=demanding), that’s for sure.

• Do you feel your concerns are taken seriously? In general, yes. However, they like waiting things out, hoping that nature will do the job for free. This causes unnecessary suffering - such as repetitive ear infections that only got operated after 18months and only because I told them that long term use of friggin paracetamol can damage the liver (and kidneys) of our toddler. Or a chronic shoulder pain that they treated for months with some sort of ultrasound treatment and cream and other wizardry then it turned out to be something that must be operated. Would have been a lot easier, less painful and I am sure less costly as well with a referral to radiology after the first visit.

Unfortunately, I have met some GPs who are generally clueless. One considered my CRP level of 100 normal (ended up in a hospital eventually), the other said our toddler can’t have sinusitis because kids don’t have sinuses, then another one freaked out because she could not get my patellar reflex- then I showed her where to put that hammer exactly.

But I also must mention that GPs tend to keep the scores down as they get a lot of b*llocking from insurance companies for giving too many referrals.

• Have you experienced long waiting times or difficulty getting referrals?

Yes, for a child. This time until the operation theatre took 4 months from the day of the referral. For an operation I also had when I was a kid and was operated with in just days. As an urgent case to avoid complications.

• How does Dutch healthcare compare to what you were used to before moving here?

Once you break barrier one (the gatekeeper picking up the phone to triage ) and work your way through the GP (who can be brilliant or incompetent- it’s a lottery), the specialist are absolutely top and you most likely get excellent treatment.

I am from a country where there are a lot less resources and to compensate this, medical staff has a far wider knowledge and competences- especially GPs but also nurses. That’s not good either. The balance would be somewhere in the middle, but I believe that the Dutch healthcare system, especially because it’s private, is still working just fine. Of course not perfect, but hopefully evolving.

[-]

Aggravating-Chef8388@reddit

Probably the most realistic comment here, Dutch definitely suck on preventing things, but when you actually get the care its probably world class.

I come from a country where everyone refers everyone to everything, the result is that general lines (covered by the government once reffered) to things like CT, MRI or ultrascan are 1-2 years. Here in The Netherlands a friend got an ultrascan a week after refferal.

[-]

LoyalteeMeOblige@reddit

Much of it depends on your GP's approach which is usually dismissive and overly cautious which "let's see how far it goes", and on you really: you need to be assertive about what you want and don't take no for an answer even when they say "well, you would have to pay for this". I don't mind, just do it.

I had mixed experiences with my direct GP but the Huisart I used is a clinic, hence there are several doctors. With her I never got the idea she did listen or care, the rest were more clear and treated me better. And I'm saying this when she let my flu developed into a full pneumonia.

As for check-ups, I do them every 2-3 years when I go home. I'm not going to waste any breath by trying to reason with doctors here on that regard. Plus, I also think they like to pat one another given how good the results they themselves made, dismissing all the cases where people need to go abroad after being ignored or basically berated for asking for an attention in the first place.

[-]

chardrizard@reddit

Never had issue to get referrals the few time I needed it, getting emergency appointment was also fast.

One time I had my jaw dislocated, they found specialist in under 30min in their full schedule to fit me in 15 minute jaw fix.

Antibiotics prescribed right away too the time I needed it. I havent had experience with very bad diseases yet though.

[-]

PhysicalStorm2656@reddit

Our GP practice is really great. The respond quickly, listen to us. I’ve never been denied a referral or medication.

Dealt with multiple hospitals/polis, across a wide variety of specialities the past two years (it’s been a wild time 😅) for our family and I can’t complain.

There have been some long wait times for a few polis but it hasn’t been an issue as these were just for check ups I requested. So it didn’t matter if it took a little bit to happen. Anything regarding a present issue has been pretty quick. Never been denied a referral.

Obviously different but not worse. Where I’m from we could afford private healthcare, so it was typically good. We luckily didn’t need to rely on the public system, which is a nightmare.

Besides out of office availability, our huisarts offers all this. In that case the huisartsenpost is very useful.

Personally, I don’t think we would use such a service. I am sure however others might, especially those who have really awful GP’s. I do think mental health help would be an area that many people need access to much quicker.

[-]

Mysterious_Button_47@reddit

If I stayed 1 year longer I would be disabled now Such shitshow, incompetence snd sheer negligence

[-]

Champsterdam@reddit

Been great so far. Husband thought he broke his ankle and we got into GP right away and they sent us to hospital and radiology got us in right away.

Daughter had something weird on her hand and I sent pics to the GP and they called back within 15.

I made an appointment with GP because I’ve just been feeling so exhausted and down lately and they got me in quick and really seemed to listen to me. She ordered a full bloodwork scan and did it on the spot. Results came back and she sent me to a specialist who was nice. They got me on a prescription right away.

Heard bad things about it but we have been impressed. They seem genuinely concerned and interested in your health.