The Boeing 727-like the DC-9, MD-80 and BAC 1-11-used reverse thrust to roll backwards from the gate, no tug needed - It was noisy, smoky, and spectacular: three JT8Ds roaring in reverse, the ramp shaking, and that kerosene haze caught forever on grainy VHS tapes.

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av8geek@reddit

Dash 8s do this all the time in Madeira.

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pigbearpig@reddit

I don't understand the title. I don't see smoke and haze, nor a grainy VHS.

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Reasonable_Lock9798@reddit

It reads like it's AI generated. Sorry for commenting on an old thread. It's just something that I noticed.

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pavelowdriver@reddit

Did a great job of cleaning up all that FOD.

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You had to be careful not to use too much brake when slowing, they had a tendency to sit on their ass if you did. Most of the time, we would roll past the point we needed, stow the reversers and only brake moving forward

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compbl@reddit

I was wondering the same thing. Was there ever a situation where too much brake was applied and the "popped a wheelie"

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WAR_T0RN1226@reddit

I remember seeing a clip of this happening. Might've been military, maybe a C17

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Brilliant_Rutabaga_6@reddit

Wow thanks for that video

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cookiemonster757@reddit

Super easy to do in a c17, personal expirience lol

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CannonAFB_unofficial@reddit

Put a gunship on there too. Backing it into a hard stand every night after a 10+ combat sortie gets old real fast. She just wants to do wheelies everywhere.

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theyoyomaster@reddit

C-17s do everything they can to avoid the wheelie. Even a few inches of nose gear strut extension is super uncomfortable.

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Malcolm2theRescue@reddit

There’s a good one of an A400 doing it at an airshow. Came close

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WAR_T0RN1226@reddit

That's the one

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No7an@reddit

I worked the ramp in MSP in 2001-2004 and we were still doing DC-9 / 727 power-backs. When powering back, the marshaller would do a forward rolling motion until the aircraft was in position, and then immediately instruct the pilots to power forward to stop the aircraft. At no point was any “X” given as an instruction to the pilots, as braking would put the aircraft on its tail.

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rob_s_458@reddit

I remember in FS2002 I could do a pushback with the parking brake set (not sure whether it's realistic that a tug could overcome the braking force), and then when I'd stop the pushback the plane would nose up. Not sure whether the strut just extended some or came all the way up.

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West_Good_5961@reddit

Yep, first thing I thought. Maybe the 727 having NLG brakes could mitigate this?

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-burnr-@reddit

Some did. It was an option.

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FlydirectMoxie@reddit

We didn’t use any brakes.. just pop the reversers closed and gently add power. Brakes equal smacking the tail skid on the -72, or the fuselage on the -9’s.

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wileysegovia@reddit

The DC 9 didn't have a tail?

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FlydirectMoxie@reddit

Not sure if this is stupid or funny.

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wileysegovia@reddit

You said "brakes equals striking the [...] fuselage on the [DC]-9's". How would the fuselage reach the ground if the landing gear, wings, tail, etc. are geometrically in the way? Genuine question

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driftingphotog@reddit

He’s talking about a scenario where the plane tips on its butt.

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wileysegovia@reddit

Butt meaning ... tail

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Soft_Language_5987@reddit

You’re fucking annoying

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Brawler215@reddit

The same way that slamming the front brakes on your bike when you are going 20mph is going to flip you over the handlebars. All that mass is going to rotate about the rear wheels and make the plane pop a wheelie.

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wileysegovia@reddit

So, pops a wheelie and then ... strikes the tail

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Malcolm2theRescue@reddit

The nose brakes were not a common option.

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farva_06@reddit

I've done this in flight sim multiple times.

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Liamnacuac@reddit

They quit using them because you couldn't hear the backing up beeper.

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Fart2Mouth69@reddit

i remember seeing md80’s do this in dca in the late 90’s

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psychedelicdonky@reddit

Well nice video but why tf does the player thingy take 2 times 30 something seconds to play?

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JSpencer999@reddit

Back when jet fuel was cheaper than water.

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BoringBob84@reddit

Also, the engines were up high, so they didn't kick up FOD and then ingest it.

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messyhairdayyy@reddit

So modern planes can't do this? Granted I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the subject matter but I still see these types of planes all the time.

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Navydevildoc@reddit

They technically can, but it's not recommended by Airbus or Boeing.

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biggsteve81@reddit

I imagine the 717 can "safely" do a powerback, but why risk it when the tug is there. Planes don't have backup cameras or rear cross-traffic alert.

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Christafa1982@reddit

AirTran used to allow powerbacks with their 17s.

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ajc1239@reddit

I had some KC-130s come in to the airport I worked at. They backed themselves into their parking spots probably because they didn't want us to tow them if they could help it. I also got to see an HC-144 back up a few times off our ramp onto the taxiway. They lowered the cargo hatch in the back and just had a guy in the plane watch the rear while they backed up. It's cool to see, especially my first time when I had no idea turboprops could do that

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AVeryHeavyBurtation@reddit

I did it in flight sim, then I hit the brakes too hard and the plane tipped backwards haha.

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zxzkzkz@reddit

I believe every plane with reverse thrust can do it. But no airports allow it because it can throw debris at the gate and cause damage.

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BoringBob84@reddit

Yes, they can, but the risk of engine damage is high - especially on narrow-body aircraft like the 737 and A320, where the engines are very close to the ground.

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BrewCityChaserV2@reddit

It should be noted that most of the time they did not do this despite being able to.

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Malcolm2theRescue@reddit

This was in the 80s-90s. Jet fuel wasn’t cheap. As soon as the powerback was complete, the extra engine was shut down to save fuel then restarted before take off.

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OpportunityFriends@reddit

*looks at tug* That's for school girls. Now here's a pushback with some chest hair. (I miss Futurama)

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Bornflying@reddit

Um, futurama is back if you didn’t know

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OttoVonWong@reddit

Bite my shiny reverse thrust ass.

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yourzero@reddit

Ok, I love Futurama, but I'm having a hard time placing this reference...

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stocksy@reddit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Vp9eKnUes

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OrangeJon@reddit

Built like a 737 but handles like some other more nimble plane.

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Luftwaff1e5@reddit

A bistro?

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kpidhayny@reddit

Kif, order me two cases of…. *Bistro*

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nerferderr@reddit

But that route leads through a swarm of comets...

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Workinginberlin@reddit

Really dangerous on 727s that were re-engined with RR Tay engines, the shift in the compressor working line put the fan blades in flutter and caused 2 multi blade releases, one was a fatality where the blade went into the fuse and decapitated the passenger, head was never found.

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KiloPapa@reddit

Wait the passenger’s head was decapitated inside the plane and they couldn’t find it?!?

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Workinginberlin@reddit

Yes it exited the fuselage through the hole caused by the fan blade.

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NxPat@reddit

That was actually pretty snappy!

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PresentationJumpy101@reddit

Did that once on a Midwest express flight

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unreqistered@reddit

fond memories of that overwhelming kerosene stink …

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Fickle-Classroom-277@reddit

Embraer 135s and 145s could do it too, but they're not allowed to anymore because too many pilots applied brakes instead of forward thrust to slow down and set them on their ass

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can_i_gets_some@reddit

I remember Northwest let us listen to the ATC conversations from our seat. That was always fun for a nerdy kid like me.

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Baterial1@reddit

meanwhile pilot: https://preview.redd.it/35ujwn6bwjag1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=dcdc82f0ffb60083feff101ca9536e6c258f076a

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iksbob@reddit

Right? I'm wondering if the tail has reversing lights and a beeper on it.

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twilighttwister@reddit

There's a guy on the ground keeping an eye on things, while standing in view of the cockpit.

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Far-Yellow9303@reddit

Many aircraft also have a connection [on or near](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/responsible-job-15453122.jpg) the nosewheel assembly for ground crew to plug in and talk to the cockpit crew directly

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gameforge@reddit

Does he have a megaphone and yell "BEEP .. BEEP .. BEEP"?

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rob_s_458@reddit

UAL512: Ground, United 512, which way would you like us to face? Kennedy Steve: You gotta face the front, sir. If you fly looking at the passengers they get scared.

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hursofid@reddit

And of course with radio volume turned down, if you will understand that reference

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luki-x@reddit

How does the pilot know where he is going?

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mrbubbles916@reddit

They would most likely get cleared by the ground controller (meaning no airplanes crossing) and then they would watch the ground crew give them signals.

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mkosmo@reddit

Those ramps are almost all nonmovement areas, controlled entirely by the airlines and this kind of thing coordinated by the marshalers.

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GroundedGerbil@reddit

Did it in a Merlin, well the CA did, I was a CFI and “warm body”. But pretty cool.

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beetfield@reddit

I worked at the old AUS (Robert Mueller) in the early 80’s. It was called a “power back.” But I don’t recall 727’s doing it. Supposedly it was too easy for them to end up on their ass.

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matreo987@reddit

this was a common issue for them to end up on their ass. very light braking if at all was permitted when slowing down during a power back.

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FlydirectMoxie@reddit

Grrr. First thing once the buckets are open- heels on the floor. Come forward signal- out of reverse, apply a bit of forward thrust. You never ever touch the brakes.

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VikingLander7@reddit

We were told a story about this in school, was normal procedure for these types but when the 757’s arrived they tried it and blew out a bunch of windows in the terminal building so that ended that.

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Pretty1george@reddit

Have video of being on this at DTW on the dc9 and 727. Unique experience!

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wagner56@reddit

and then the 70s Mideast Oil Crisis and fuel went way up in cost

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--TheSolutionist--@reddit

Those were the days!

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Weary-Echidna1984@reddit

You could power back a Boeing 717 also. You weren’t meant to, but *allegedly* someone has.

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kokosnh@reddit

Now we have e-tax systems on the weels in testing.

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StickySolvey@reddit

With a 90 degrees turn is it still possible for a forward thrust to move a body this big?, or was it not a 90 degrees?

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agha0013@reddit

It also sucked for ground crews, equipment, terminals. Blasting all the crap at the head of stand sucked.

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headphase@reddit

Wonder how many terminal windows were cracked by stay stones back then...

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3MATX@reddit

I’d guess not a ton since the terminals are generally higher than the engines. But I’d bet plenty of ground equipment with windshields had a bad track record.

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Badrear@reddit

I was lucky enough not to be on a ramp when they did this, but unlucky enough to be in a couple places where jets just turned out.

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agha0013@reddit

I used to work at an fbo with a ramp and main customer entrance facing another fbo ramp. The other fbo never cared if we had passengers waking to and from planes. They'd have big jets turn and blast our ramp without hesitation. Has caused more than a couple issues and at least one injury. Bad neighbors. And they had plenty of other spots to park and tow planes

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njsullyalex@reddit

I wish I could’ve experienced this IRL. Sadly I only got to fly on the MD-80 twice before they were retired and both flights we had a regular tug pushback.

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an_older_meme@reddit

Can easily damage stuff. Someone would need a good reason to do it.

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ConflictInside5060@reddit

Add the ERJ-135 to that list. I was paired with a retired United captain on a charter flight out of BWI. The tow bar was broken and we were cleared for a power *out* if the next gate was empty. The forbidden power *back* happened so fast I just did my flows and checklist and waited for a phone call.

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rob_s_458@reddit

My first time flying out of my local small airport was on a E-145 and when they started the engines while we were stationary, I thought we were going to power back. But the jet bridges are set up for parallel parking so we just pulled forward.

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ConflictInside5060@reddit

Interesting. Once the jet bridge was pulled, we were supposed to power forward and turn right.

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Majortom_67@reddit

With Swissair md 87 in ZRH 1990

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jumppilot03@reddit

The 727 pilots had a saying when powering back. “1.4, feet on the floor” 1.4 was the EPR power setting while in reverse and feet on the floor was so that no one had their feet on the tow pedal brakes. A tap of the brakes would put the airplane on its tail.

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UniqueIndividual3579@reddit

I worked on the ramp at BWI in the late 80s. An AA MD-80 doing a powerback was an impressive sight. I always wondered how much fuel that cost compared to a push back?

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Chaxterium@reddit

My second day as an airline captain I had to do a three-point turn on a runway. I thought the runway was wide enough to do a 180 without taxiing all the way down to the hammerhead at the end. I was wrong!

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Protip19@reddit

Its surprising that electric taxiing systems haven't had much success yet. Seems like it would be super useful.

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Kungfu_Queso@reddit

A C17 can also do this

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Freddan_81@reddit

As a Swede I’m happy to still be able to see ”JY8D” going backwards every now and then. The Swedish airforce historic flight have two airworthy Saab 37 Viggens that like to show a short stop and taxi in reverse at airshowns.

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Chankla_Rocket@reddit

I love the Viggen! I fly the AJS-37 variant in the DCS flight sim. It's really thrilling to fly fast and low and has great STOL capabilities, especially with that reverse thruster.

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stranger-things_123@reddit

Almost the same noise as a electric car reversing😅

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fresh_like_Oprah@reddit

Yeah, they just add that roar and ear-piercing whistle for awareness

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double_positive@reddit

The Northwest logo is one of the best ever

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fresh_like_Oprah@reddit

This is the 'bowling shoe' livery. Pretty crazy to see the 3-holer and an airbus wearing it next to each other.

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yellowstone10@reddit

it's an N, and a W, and a compass pointing northwest!

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EccentricGamerCL@reddit

Delta REALLY needs to use it as a throwback livery.

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dpdxguy@reddit

And I can hear the radio jingle playing in my head.

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Zakluor@reddit

As a controller, I worked in the tower during the last days of seeing 727s carrying passengers at my airport (early 90s). Most airliners (even the DC9s and 727s) used a tug and requested "pushback" to leave the gate, as they do today. One time, a pilot of a three-holer requested a "powerback". It was the only time I got to see it, and it was very noisy.

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abstractmodulemusic@reddit

I trained for that when I was a ramper, but that's the first time I've actually seen it.

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Jawaad13@reddit

That's awesome!

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ttman05@reddit

This is how I roll out of the gate in msfs /s

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Mr_McMuffin_Jr@reddit

I once saw a CRJ200 complete boarding and do a 180 in place at the gate under its own power. I have video of it. Not sure how common that is. This was at KBMI, gate 3.

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Old_Communication960@reddit

Nwa dc9 used to be a common occurences

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OneLonelyGuy_1971@reddit

They were doing this also in the mid-1980's with American's fleet of MD-80s as well. I witnessed it many times at Little Rock Airport back in '86 and '87. Back in late 1993, I flew on a Continental DC-9 that powered back from the gate at Midland/Odessa International Spaceport Airport (KMAF). I was 22 at the time, and it was an exciting experience. That was also back before the new terminal there was built and opened.

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autobot12349876@reddit

Man I don’t remember any of my flights. Let alone the specific planes I flew on. lol the only flight that stands out was a northwest flight in winter in Detroit where they kept us on the plane for four hours

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novar41@reddit

I didn't know the BAC 1-11 did that. I've seen it on the DC-9, 727 and even 737 sometimes but never on the Eleven.

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Technical-Patient28@reddit

It’s a 727

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novar41@reddit

I know. But OP stated that the BAC 1-11 also did that. And I did not know that was common practice on that aircraft.

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Technical-Patient28@reddit

True that. Apologies

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novar41@reddit

No worries. I’ve seen this practice on the ATR-42/72 Q400, Twin Otter, J-41 DC-9/MD-80/717, 727, 737 and 757 and an ERJ operator that I worked for actually had a provision in their FOM to power back the ERJs so… I guess it’s more common than I thought lol!

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1989DiscGolfer@reddit

I used to visit Detroit Metro for some plane spotting in the late '90s. Used to park on top of the parking garage and you'd be right on top of a very active runway there. Saw tons of these NWA 727's, brings back cool pre-911 memories. I remember being excited watching a DC-10 take off. I took a VHS video camera once, but the footage is weird, I'm guessing due to the frame rate or something, because it looks like the planes wobble as they move. Kind of unwatchable really.

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Zvenigora@reddit

I only witnessed this once in person. I don't think ground crews were fond of the practice, and loose objects could be picked up and blown at terminal windows.

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Thel_Odan@reddit

Man I miss Northwest. I don't know if they were actually a good airline since I was pretty young, but it was always a staple of our family vacations when I was younger.

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MrDannyProvolone@reddit

Is a mechanic im always hesitant to deploy the TR's on the ground, fearing FOD ingestion. They I remember they used to do this shit.

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Cheezeball25@reddit

It's funny how different maintenance operations work when it comes to TR's. I work in a city that regularly gets a ton of ice over ramp areas, and the TR's are the most reliable way to stop without risking a slide. Although I work on CRJ's, and those engines are about 10 feet in the air, so FOD isn't much of a concern

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decisivelyvaguename@reddit

Your mom was a thrust powerback in the 90s too.

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fan_tas_tic@reddit

It looks like it took much less time though. Does anyone know the time difference of the tug/reverse thrust?

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julias-winston@reddit

I don't know, but I think every other part of boarding through takeoff takes longer, from a passenger's perspective. Comparing pushback times feels like optimizing the wrong part of the process.

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halfty1@reddit

Yes, the main advantage of the powerback was needing less tugs/ground crew for pushback. It was never really about time savings vs tug.

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Nice_Classroom_6459@reddit

Now workers are cheaper than fuel, too.

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Fiveofthem@reddit

3 engines roaring in reverse? I don’t think the tail engine had reverse thrust.

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Fiveofthem@reddit

I was wrong, the center does have a reverse thruster.🤷‍♂️

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SumOfKyle@reddit

I seem to remember the same, but I’m just a dumb man

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swirler@reddit

All three had reversers.

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Nice_Classroom_6459@reddit

"20,000 pounds of fuel? We don't even need half of that."

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btroib92@reddit

Why dont planes do this anymore?

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Key-Illustrator-5562@reddit

Military aircraft, specifically the C-130s and C-17, practice this regularly. It requires crew coordination between the PIC ( pilot in command) and loadmaster(s) sitting on the open ramp.

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halfty1@reddit

Uses a lot of fuel (fuel was much cheaper then), blasting the terminal with dust/dirt, wing mounted engines (basically all planes now) are at increased risk of FOD (foreign object debris) ingestion since engines closer to ground. That last one is the main reason why power backs were really only routinely done with aircraft that have tail mounted engines.

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jhill9901@reddit

Dangerous. Strictly forbidden in most everyones AOM and limitations

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Cesalv@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/p4zomy68ojag1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=6cb6f7e967214634bfc8b9978a87bc0dacf82859

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edoreinn@reddit

My Detroit childhood is flashing before my eyes

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So_HauserAspen@reddit

Come on. This would have been recorded on Hi8 not VHS! The noise made sitting at the gate windows better.

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windas_98@reddit

I love flying the 727 in the sims. No pushback needed, and the Super 27 variant is so powerful.

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wasthatitthen@reddit

Vague memory tells me the IL62 could do this as well. In the very dim and distant past during one of the regular Cold War episodes of handbags between London and Moscow there was an IL62 at Heathrow to take diplomats home and they cleared the Queens Building spectator terraces because the plane was “going to use reverse thrust” to leave the gate, and “it was dangerous”. This may be total bs of course, but it was on the tv news and struck me as odd.

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snoopcat1995@reddit

Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep

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Born-Process-9848@reddit

Back when planes has rear view mirrors.

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LRJetCowboy@reddit

Even a Gulfstream will do it in a pinch. Not that I would know 🤦‍♂️

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Melonpan78@reddit

The Northwest 727 was my second ever flight. (My first was their DC-10, same holiday) Think of that- all the way from the UK to the USA on tri-jets.

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clausy@reddit

I remember going to Gatwick’s viewing gallery to ‘spot’ those Northwest DC-10s back in the 80s

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Zorg_Employee@reddit

Still would do this in the early 2010s if it was late and ops went home.

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Coreysurfer@reddit

We control our destiny !

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CrappyTan69@reddit

If they did a J-turn I'd be more impressed

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SerenityFailed@reddit

I was on a C-130 that did a J-turn and backed into its parking spot on the ramp. It was an awkward experience

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pjlaniboys@reddit

I was jump seating once on NWA when they did this. Crazy feeling as you put 100pct trust in the marshaler that all is clear behind you. Completely blind and don’t pop the brakes.

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cpav8r@reddit

My cousin backed over a pickup truck in a DC-9 one time.

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DullMind2023@reddit

I remember when AA used to do this with their MD-80s in DFW and thinking it was an expensive FOD incident just waiting to happen. I’m happy sanity has returned.

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TankerVictorious@reddit

I remember seeing this employed frequently at ORD, IAD, and DCA. Seeing the gate crew run away from the blast area was cringey…

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Borkdadork@reddit

I remember being in planes that did this. I remember specifically in a NW DC9 at MSP

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