TheaterFire

The Boeing 727-like the DC-9, MD-80 and BAC 1-11-used reverse thrust to roll backwards from the gate, no tug needed - It was noisy, smoky, and spectacular: three JT8Ds roaring in reverse, the ramp shaking, and that kerosene haze caught forever on grainy VHS tapes.

Posted by Twitter_2006@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 157 comments

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157 Comments

av8geek@reddit

Dash 8s do this all the time in Madeira.
View on Reddit #76781695

pigbearpig@reddit

I don't understand the title. I don't see smoke and haze, nor a grainy VHS.
View on Reddit #74720488

Reasonable_Lock9798@reddit

It reads like it's AI generated. Sorry for commenting on an old thread. It's just something that I noticed.
View on Reddit #75236517

pavelowdriver@reddit

Did a great job of cleaning up all that FOD.
View on Reddit #74858732

-burnr-@reddit

You had to be careful not to use too much brake when slowing, they had a tendency to sit on their ass if you did. Most of the time, we would roll past the point we needed, stow the reversers and only brake moving forward
View on Reddit #74712293

compbl@reddit

I was wondering the same thing. Was there ever a situation where too much brake was applied and the "popped a wheelie"
View on Reddit #74713851

WAR_T0RN1226@reddit

I remember seeing a clip of this happening. Might've been military, maybe a C17
View on Reddit #74714361

Brilliant_Rutabaga_6@reddit

Wow thanks for that video
View on Reddit #74836478

cookiemonster757@reddit

Super easy to do in a c17, personal expirience lol
View on Reddit #74736549

CannonAFB_unofficial@reddit

Put a gunship on there too. Backing it into a hard stand every night after a 10+ combat sortie gets old real fast. She just wants to do wheelies everywhere.
View on Reddit #74745782

theyoyomaster@reddit

C-17s do everything they can to avoid the wheelie. Even a few inches of nose gear strut extension is super uncomfortable. 
View on Reddit #74727979

Malcolm2theRescue@reddit

There’s a good one of an A400 doing it at an airshow. Came close
View on Reddit #74715568

WAR_T0RN1226@reddit

That's the one
View on Reddit #74716075

No7an@reddit

I worked the ramp in MSP in 2001-2004 and we were still doing DC-9 / 727 power-backs. When powering back, the marshaller would do a forward rolling motion until the aircraft was in position, and then immediately instruct the pilots to power forward to stop the aircraft. At no point was any “X” given as an instruction to the pilots, as braking would put the aircraft on its tail.
View on Reddit #74759579

rob_s_458@reddit

I remember in FS2002 I could do a pushback with the parking brake set (not sure whether it's realistic that a tug could overcome the braking force), and then when I'd stop the pushback the plane would nose up. Not sure whether the strut just extended some or came all the way up.
View on Reddit #74735499

West_Good_5961@reddit

Yep, first thing I thought. Maybe the 727 having NLG brakes could mitigate this?
View on Reddit #74712476

-burnr-@reddit

Some did. It was an option.
View on Reddit #74712617

FlydirectMoxie@reddit

We didn’t use any brakes.. just pop the reversers closed and gently add power. Brakes equal smacking the tail skid on the -72, or the fuselage on the -9’s.
View on Reddit #74717864

wileysegovia@reddit

The DC 9 didn't have a tail?
View on Reddit #74719130

FlydirectMoxie@reddit

Not sure if this is stupid or funny.
View on Reddit #74720775

wileysegovia@reddit

You said "brakes equals striking the [...] fuselage on the [DC]-9's". How would the fuselage reach the ground if the landing gear, wings, tail, etc. are geometrically in the way? Genuine question
View on Reddit #74721260

driftingphotog@reddit

He’s talking about a scenario where the plane tips on its butt.
View on Reddit #74722908

wileysegovia@reddit

Butt meaning ... tail
View on Reddit #74723183

Soft_Language_5987@reddit

You’re fucking annoying
View on Reddit #74736264

Brawler215@reddit

The same way that slamming the front brakes on your bike when you are going 20mph is going to flip you over the handlebars. All that mass is going to rotate about the rear wheels and make the plane pop a wheelie.
View on Reddit #74722838

wileysegovia@reddit

So, pops a wheelie and then ... strikes the tail
View on Reddit #74723165

Malcolm2theRescue@reddit

The nose brakes were not a common option.
View on Reddit #74715307

farva_06@reddit

I've done this in flight sim multiple times.
View on Reddit #74729619

Liamnacuac@reddit

They quit using them because you couldn't hear the backing up beeper.
View on Reddit #74802827

Fart2Mouth69@reddit

i remember seeing md80’s do this in dca in the late 90’s
View on Reddit #74799292

psychedelicdonky@reddit

Well nice video but why tf does the player thingy take 2 times 30 something seconds to play?
View on Reddit #74793534

JSpencer999@reddit

Back when jet fuel was cheaper than water.
View on Reddit #74711584

BoringBob84@reddit

Also, the engines were up high, so they didn't kick up FOD and then ingest it.
View on Reddit #74714407

messyhairdayyy@reddit

So modern planes can't do this? Granted I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the subject matter but I still see these types of planes all the time.
View on Reddit #74735958

Navydevildoc@reddit

They technically can, but it's not recommended by Airbus or Boeing.
View on Reddit #74736256

biggsteve81@reddit

I imagine the 717 can "safely" do a powerback, but why risk it when the tug is there. Planes don't have backup cameras or rear cross-traffic alert.
View on Reddit #74737987

Christafa1982@reddit

AirTran used to allow powerbacks with their 17s.
View on Reddit #74786749

ajc1239@reddit

I had some KC-130s come in to the airport I worked at. They backed themselves into their parking spots probably because they didn't want us to tow them if they could help it. I also got to see an HC-144 back up a few times off our ramp onto the taxiway. They lowered the cargo hatch in the back and just had a guy in the plane watch the rear while they backed up. It's cool to see, especially my first time when I had no idea turboprops could do that
View on Reddit #74770653

AVeryHeavyBurtation@reddit

I did it in flight sim, then I hit the brakes too hard and the plane tipped backwards haha.
View on Reddit #74761647

zxzkzkz@reddit

I believe every plane with reverse thrust can do it. But no airports allow it because it can throw debris at the gate and cause damage.
View on Reddit #74746235

BoringBob84@reddit

Yes, they can, but the risk of engine damage is high - especially on narrow-body aircraft like the 737 and A320, where the engines are very close to the ground.
View on Reddit #74736745

BrewCityChaserV2@reddit

It should be noted that most of the time they did not do this despite being able to.
View on Reddit #74723917

Malcolm2theRescue@reddit

This was in the 80s-90s. Jet fuel wasn’t cheap. As soon as the powerback was complete, the extra engine was shut down to save fuel then restarted before take off.
View on Reddit #74715178

OpportunityFriends@reddit

*looks at tug* That's for school girls. Now here's a pushback with some chest hair. (I miss Futurama)
View on Reddit #74712191

Bornflying@reddit

Um, futurama is back if you didn’t know
View on Reddit #74779129

OttoVonWong@reddit

Bite my shiny reverse thrust ass.
View on Reddit #74730659

yourzero@reddit

Ok, I love Futurama, but I'm having a hard time placing this reference...
View on Reddit #74723063

stocksy@reddit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Vp9eKnUes
View on Reddit #74724535

OrangeJon@reddit

Built like a 737 but handles like some other more nimble plane.
View on Reddit #74717004

Luftwaff1e5@reddit

A bistro?
View on Reddit #74718712

kpidhayny@reddit

Kif, order me two cases of…. *Bistro*
View on Reddit #74721002

nerferderr@reddit

But that route leads through a swarm of comets...
View on Reddit #74713687

Workinginberlin@reddit

Really dangerous on 727s that were re-engined with RR Tay engines, the shift in the compressor working line put the fan blades in flutter and caused 2 multi blade releases, one was a fatality where the blade went into the fuse and decapitated the passenger, head was never found.
View on Reddit #74746962

KiloPapa@reddit

Wait the passenger’s head was decapitated inside the plane and they couldn’t find it?!?
View on Reddit #74753502

Workinginberlin@reddit

Yes it exited the fuselage through the hole caused by the fan blade.
View on Reddit #74777269

NxPat@reddit

That was actually pretty snappy!
View on Reddit #74775938

PresentationJumpy101@reddit

Did that once on a Midwest express flight
View on Reddit #74775369

unreqistered@reddit

fond memories of that overwhelming kerosene stink …
View on Reddit #74774960

Fickle-Classroom-277@reddit

Embraer 135s and 145s could do it too, but they're not allowed to anymore because too many pilots applied brakes instead of forward thrust to slow down and set them on their ass
View on Reddit #74771507

can_i_gets_some@reddit

I remember Northwest let us listen to the ATC conversations from our seat. That was always fun for a nerdy kid like me.
View on Reddit #74767289

Baterial1@reddit

meanwhile pilot: https://preview.redd.it/35ujwn6bwjag1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=dcdc82f0ffb60083feff101ca9536e6c258f076a
View on Reddit #74716057

iksbob@reddit

Right? I'm wondering if the tail has reversing lights and a beeper on it.
View on Reddit #74721333

twilighttwister@reddit

There's a guy on the ground keeping an eye on things, while standing in view of the cockpit.
View on Reddit #74725328

Far-Yellow9303@reddit

Many aircraft also have a connection [on or near](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/responsible-job-15453122.jpg) the nosewheel assembly for ground crew to plug in and talk to the cockpit crew directly
View on Reddit #74765476

gameforge@reddit

Does he have a megaphone and yell "BEEP .. BEEP .. BEEP"?
View on Reddit #74736167

rob_s_458@reddit

UAL512: Ground, United 512, which way would you like us to face? Kennedy Steve: You gotta face the front, sir. If you fly looking at the passengers they get scared.
View on Reddit #74735745

hursofid@reddit

And of course with radio volume turned down, if you will understand that reference
View on Reddit #74721524

luki-x@reddit

How does the pilot know where he is going?
View on Reddit #74714309

mrbubbles916@reddit

They would most likely get cleared by the ground controller (meaning no airplanes crossing) and then they would watch the ground crew give them signals.
View on Reddit #74722130

mkosmo@reddit

Those ramps are almost all nonmovement areas, controlled entirely by the airlines and this kind of thing coordinated by the marshalers.
View on Reddit #74764138

GroundedGerbil@reddit

Did it in a Merlin, well the CA did, I was a CFI and “warm body”. But pretty cool.
View on Reddit #74760833

beetfield@reddit

I worked at the old AUS (Robert Mueller) in the early 80’s. It was called a “power back.” But I don’t recall 727’s doing it. Supposedly it was too easy for them to end up on their ass.
View on Reddit #74713800

matreo987@reddit

this was a common issue for them to end up on their ass. very light braking if at all was permitted when slowing down during a power back.
View on Reddit #74719894

FlydirectMoxie@reddit

Grrr. First thing once the buckets are open- heels on the floor. Come forward signal- out of reverse, apply a bit of forward thrust. You never ever touch the brakes.
View on Reddit #74757290

VikingLander7@reddit

We were told a story about this in school, was normal procedure for these types but when the 757’s arrived they tried it and blew out a bunch of windows in the terminal building so that ended that.
View on Reddit #74756221

Pretty1george@reddit

Have video of being on this at DTW on the dc9 and 727. Unique experience!
View on Reddit #74754664

wagner56@reddit

and then the 70s Mideast Oil Crisis and fuel went way up in cost
View on Reddit #74753693

--TheSolutionist--@reddit

Those were the days!
View on Reddit #74750528

Weary-Echidna1984@reddit

You could power back a Boeing 717 also. You weren’t meant to, but *allegedly* someone has.
View on Reddit #74748791

kokosnh@reddit

Now we have e-tax systems on the weels in testing.
View on Reddit #74744437

StickySolvey@reddit

With a 90 degrees turn is it still possible for a forward thrust to move a body this big?, or was it not a 90 degrees?
View on Reddit #74741189

agha0013@reddit

It also sucked for ground crews, equipment, terminals. Blasting all the crap at the head of stand sucked.
View on Reddit #74711780

headphase@reddit

Wonder how many terminal windows were cracked by stay stones back then...
View on Reddit #74720904

3MATX@reddit

I’d guess not a ton since the terminals are generally higher than the engines.  But I’d bet plenty of ground equipment with windshields had a bad track record.  
View on Reddit #74738739

Badrear@reddit

I was lucky enough not to be on a ramp when they did this, but unlucky enough to be in a couple places where jets just turned out.
View on Reddit #74717032

agha0013@reddit

I used to work at an fbo with a ramp and main customer entrance facing another fbo ramp. The other fbo never cared if we had passengers waking to and from planes. They'd have big jets turn and blast our ramp without hesitation. Has caused more than a couple issues and at least one injury. Bad neighbors. And they had plenty of other spots to park and tow planes
View on Reddit #74717375

njsullyalex@reddit

I wish I could’ve experienced this IRL. Sadly I only got to fly on the MD-80 twice before they were retired and both flights we had a regular tug pushback.
View on Reddit #74738458

an_older_meme@reddit

Can easily damage stuff. Someone would need a good reason to do it.
View on Reddit #74737340

ConflictInside5060@reddit

Add the ERJ-135 to that list. I was paired with a retired United captain on a charter flight out of BWI. The tow bar was broken and we were cleared for a power *out* if the next gate was empty. The forbidden power *back* happened so fast I just did my flows and checklist and waited for a phone call.
View on Reddit #74713746

rob_s_458@reddit

My first time flying out of my local small airport was on a E-145 and when they started the engines while we were stationary, I thought we were going to power back. But the jet bridges are set up for parallel parking so we just pulled forward.
View on Reddit #74736101

ConflictInside5060@reddit

Interesting. Once the jet bridge was pulled, we were supposed to power forward and turn right.
View on Reddit #74736257

Majortom_67@reddit

With Swissair md 87 in ZRH 1990
View on Reddit #74735315

jumppilot03@reddit

The 727 pilots had a saying when powering back. “1.4, feet on the floor” 1.4 was the EPR power setting while in reverse and feet on the floor was so that no one had their feet on the tow pedal brakes. A tap of the brakes would put the airplane on its tail.
View on Reddit #74735188

UniqueIndividual3579@reddit

I worked on the ramp at BWI in the late 80s. An AA MD-80 doing a powerback was an impressive sight. I always wondered how much fuel that cost compared to a push back?
View on Reddit #74734918

Chaxterium@reddit

My second day as an airline captain I had to do a three-point turn on a runway. I thought the runway was wide enough to do a 180 without taxiing all the way down to the hammerhead at the end. I was wrong!
View on Reddit #74733959

Protip19@reddit

Its surprising that electric taxiing systems haven't had much success yet. Seems like it would be super useful.
View on Reddit #74732393

Kungfu_Queso@reddit

A C17 can also do this
View on Reddit #74731747

Freddan_81@reddit

As a Swede I’m happy to still be able to see ”JY8D” going backwards every now and then. The Swedish airforce historic flight have two airworthy Saab 37 Viggens that like to show a short stop and taxi in reverse at airshowns.
View on Reddit #74712853

Chankla_Rocket@reddit

I love the Viggen! I fly the AJS-37 variant in the DCS flight sim. It's really thrilling to fly fast and low and has great STOL capabilities, especially with that reverse thruster.
View on Reddit #74731017

stranger-things_123@reddit

Almost the same noise as a electric car reversing😅
View on Reddit #74717969

fresh_like_Oprah@reddit

Yeah, they just add that roar and ear-piercing whistle for awareness
View on Reddit #74727003

double_positive@reddit

The Northwest logo is one of the best ever
View on Reddit #74712355

fresh_like_Oprah@reddit

This is the 'bowling shoe' livery. Pretty crazy to see the 3-holer and an airbus wearing it next to each other.
View on Reddit #74726785

yellowstone10@reddit

it's an N, and a W, and a compass pointing northwest!
View on Reddit #74723045

EccentricGamerCL@reddit

Delta REALLY needs to use it as a throwback livery.
View on Reddit #74719223

dpdxguy@reddit

And I can hear the radio jingle playing in my head.
View on Reddit #74712694

Zakluor@reddit

As a controller, I worked in the tower during the last days of seeing 727s carrying passengers at my airport (early 90s). Most airliners (even the DC9s and 727s) used a tug and requested "pushback" to leave the gate, as they do today. One time, a pilot of a three-holer requested a "powerback". It was the only time I got to see it, and it was very noisy.
View on Reddit #74725211

abstractmodulemusic@reddit

I trained for that when I was a ramper, but that's the first time I've actually seen it.
View on Reddit #74722088

Jawaad13@reddit

That's awesome!
View on Reddit #74722024

ttman05@reddit

This is how I roll out of the gate in msfs /s
View on Reddit #74721656

Mr_McMuffin_Jr@reddit

I once saw a CRJ200 complete boarding and do a 180 in place at the gate under its own power. I have video of it. Not sure how common that is. This was at KBMI, gate 3.
View on Reddit #74721541

Old_Communication960@reddit

Nwa dc9 used to be a common occurences
View on Reddit #74720484

OneLonelyGuy_1971@reddit

They were doing this also in the mid-1980's with American's fleet of MD-80s as well. I witnessed it many times at Little Rock Airport back in '86 and '87. Back in late 1993, I flew on a Continental DC-9 that powered back from the gate at Midland/Odessa International Spaceport Airport (KMAF). I was 22 at the time, and it was an exciting experience. That was also back before the new terminal there was built and opened.
View on Reddit #74713822

autobot12349876@reddit

Man I don’t remember any of my flights. Let alone the specific planes I flew on. lol the only flight that stands out was a northwest flight in winter in Detroit where they kept us on the plane for four hours
View on Reddit #74719197

novar41@reddit

I didn't know the BAC 1-11 did that. I've seen it on the DC-9, 727 and even 737 sometimes but never on the Eleven.
View on Reddit #74712368

Technical-Patient28@reddit

It’s a 727
View on Reddit #74713467

novar41@reddit

I know. But OP stated that the BAC 1-11 also did that. And I did not know that was common practice on that aircraft.
View on Reddit #74718326

Technical-Patient28@reddit

True that. Apologies
View on Reddit #74718678

novar41@reddit

No worries. I’ve seen this practice on the ATR-42/72 Q400, Twin Otter, J-41 DC-9/MD-80/717, 727, 737 and 757 and an ERJ operator that I worked for actually had a provision in their FOM to power back the ERJs so… I guess it’s more common than I thought lol!
View on Reddit #74718922

1989DiscGolfer@reddit

I used to visit Detroit Metro for some plane spotting in the late '90s. Used to park on top of the parking garage and you'd be right on top of a very active runway there. Saw tons of these NWA 727's, brings back cool pre-911 memories. I remember being excited watching a DC-10 take off. I took a VHS video camera once, but the footage is weird, I'm guessing due to the frame rate or something, because it looks like the planes wobble as they move. Kind of unwatchable really.
View on Reddit #74717831

Zvenigora@reddit

I only witnessed this once in person. I don't think ground crews were fond of the practice, and loose objects could be picked up and blown at terminal windows.
View on Reddit #74717755

Thel_Odan@reddit

Man I miss Northwest. I don't know if they were actually a good airline since I was pretty young, but it was always a staple of our family vacations when I was younger.
View on Reddit #74717480

MrDannyProvolone@reddit

Is a mechanic im always hesitant to deploy the TR's on the ground, fearing FOD ingestion. They I remember they used to do this shit.
View on Reddit #74713794

Cheezeball25@reddit

It's funny how different maintenance operations work when it comes to TR's. I work in a city that regularly gets a ton of ice over ramp areas, and the TR's are the most reliable way to stop without risking a slide. Although I work on CRJ's, and those engines are about 10 feet in the air, so FOD isn't much of a concern
View on Reddit #74717084

decisivelyvaguename@reddit

Your mom was a thrust powerback in the 90s too.
View on Reddit #74717081

fan_tas_tic@reddit

It looks like it took much less time though. Does anyone know the time difference of the tug/reverse thrust?
View on Reddit #74712384

julias-winston@reddit

I don't know, but I think every other part of boarding through takeoff takes longer, from a passenger's perspective. Comparing pushback times feels like optimizing the wrong part of the process.
View on Reddit #74713293

halfty1@reddit

Yes, the main advantage of the powerback was needing less tugs/ground crew for pushback. It was never really about time savings vs tug.
View on Reddit #74713969

Nice_Classroom_6459@reddit

Now workers are cheaper than fuel, too.
View on Reddit #74716473

Fiveofthem@reddit

3 engines roaring in reverse? I don’t think the tail engine had reverse thrust.
View on Reddit #74713453

Fiveofthem@reddit

I was wrong, the center does have a reverse thruster.🤷‍♂️
View on Reddit #74716375

SumOfKyle@reddit

I seem to remember the same, but I’m just a dumb man
View on Reddit #74716043

swirler@reddit

All three had reversers.
View on Reddit #74714597

Nice_Classroom_6459@reddit

"20,000 pounds of fuel? We don't even need half of that."
View on Reddit #74716255

btroib92@reddit

Why dont planes do this anymore?
View on Reddit #74712901

Key-Illustrator-5562@reddit

Military aircraft, specifically the C-130s and C-17, practice this regularly. It requires crew coordination between the PIC ( pilot in command) and loadmaster(s) sitting on the open ramp.
View on Reddit #74716200

halfty1@reddit

Uses a lot of fuel (fuel was much cheaper then), blasting the terminal with dust/dirt, wing mounted engines (basically all planes now) are at increased risk of FOD (foreign object debris) ingestion since engines closer to ground. That last one is the main reason why power backs were really only routinely done with aircraft that have tail mounted engines.
View on Reddit #74714105

jhill9901@reddit

Dangerous. Strictly forbidden in most everyones AOM and limitations
View on Reddit #74713109

Cesalv@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/p4zomy68ojag1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=6cb6f7e967214634bfc8b9978a87bc0dacf82859
View on Reddit #74713066

edoreinn@reddit

My Detroit childhood is flashing before my eyes
View on Reddit #74715208

So_HauserAspen@reddit

Come on.  This would have been recorded on Hi8 not VHS! The noise made sitting at the gate windows better.
View on Reddit #74715051

windas_98@reddit

I love flying the 727 in the sims. No pushback needed, and the Super 27 variant is so powerful.
View on Reddit #74715047

wasthatitthen@reddit

Vague memory tells me the IL62 could do this as well. In the very dim and distant past during one of the regular Cold War episodes of handbags between London and Moscow there was an IL62 at Heathrow to take diplomats home and they cleared the Queens Building spectator terraces because the plane was “going to use reverse thrust” to leave the gate, and “it was dangerous”. This may be total bs of course, but it was on the tv news and struck me as odd.
View on Reddit #74715006

snoopcat1995@reddit

Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep
View on Reddit #74714513

Born-Process-9848@reddit

Back when planes has rear view mirrors.
View on Reddit #74714439

LRJetCowboy@reddit

Even a Gulfstream will do it in a pinch. Not that I would know 🤦‍♂️
View on Reddit #74714383

Melonpan78@reddit

The Northwest 727 was my second ever flight. (My first was their DC-10, same holiday) Think of that- all the way from the UK to the USA on tri-jets.
View on Reddit #74712001

clausy@reddit

I remember going to Gatwick’s viewing gallery to ‘spot’ those Northwest DC-10s back in the 80s
View on Reddit #74714263

Zorg_Employee@reddit

Still would do this in the early 2010s if it was late and ops went home.
View on Reddit #74713654

Coreysurfer@reddit

We control our destiny !
View on Reddit #74713616

CrappyTan69@reddit

If they did a J-turn I'd be more impressed 
View on Reddit #74711976

SerenityFailed@reddit

I was on a C-130 that did a J-turn and backed into its parking spot on the ramp. It was an awkward experience
View on Reddit #74713301

pjlaniboys@reddit

I was jump seating once on NWA when they did this. Crazy feeling as you put 100pct trust in the marshaler that all is clear behind you. Completely blind and don’t pop the brakes.
View on Reddit #74713088

cpav8r@reddit

My cousin backed over a pickup truck in a DC-9 one time.
View on Reddit #74712902

DullMind2023@reddit

I remember when AA used to do this with their MD-80s in DFW and thinking it was an expensive FOD incident just waiting to happen. I’m happy sanity has returned.
View on Reddit #74712871

TankerVictorious@reddit

I remember seeing this employed frequently at ORD, IAD, and DCA. Seeing the gate crew run away from the blast area was cringey…
View on Reddit #74712798

Borkdadork@reddit

I remember being in planes that did this. I remember specifically in a NW DC9 at MSP
View on Reddit #74712539