Cheap ebike or mid-drive conversion kit?

Posted by Jamziboy0@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 22 comments

I have a bike, it's fine, a bit rusted, cable v brakes, but it has front suspension. I'm looking at buying a fairly cheap Ebike (about £1200), but I can't help but feel I'll have a better experience with a mid-drive conversion kit.

I want to use the bike for local errands and occasionally on a level bike path to visit my parents (12 miles one way).

Will I (as someone who's never ridden an e-bike) even notice the difference between a hub drive and a torque-sensing mid-drive?

I live in the UK, and I'll be staying road legal, so I should also ask if I'll notice the difference between 80nm of torque at the pedals (250w) and around half the torque (but still 250w) on a hub motor.

Buying a hub-drive conversion kit doesn't seem to make much sense financially. If I'm going to convert, the mid-drive seems a better option.

Any advice welcome!

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Lordly_Lobster@reddit

Installing a kit wither mid drive or hub on your existing bike would save you money. But with a kit you are responsible for service if something goes wrong. If you buy a brand name ebike from a dealer you can always bring it to them if something fails but you'll pay more. That said I have a Bafang mid drive that I put on my MTB and it's been flawless for 8000 miles. Take a look at Bafang BBS02B mid drives with a UART controller. Having UART means you can tune it how you like with a cheap USB cable. It's bery much a tinkerer's kit.

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Either_Monk_6072@reddit

Hi. Can you send me the pic or link of UART controller? It comes with package or it is bought as extra controller?

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chuckwolf@reddit

If its got rim brakes don't you dare convert it, rim brakes don't have the stopping power needed for the speed and torque produced by a mid drive, disc brakes at a minimum with hydraulic preferred.

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Jamziboy0@reddit (OP)

I keep seeing the disk brake discussion - however, I'm only talking about a 250w conversion here, does this change your opinion on the brakes?

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Keljian52@reddit

Mullet config on the bike is the minimum I'd go (disc front, v-brake back) as 70% of the braking is on the front. Also not just any caliper, BB7 or TRP spyke if going cable, or mt520 if going hydraulic - not no-name. Last thing you need is your anchors to fail in an emergency braking situation.

Ideally 180mm disc too on a 250W, depending on the duty. If you're doing a lot of hills it's a must, if you're just commuting on flats, 160mm is probably enough.

Fork is also a major thing, 32mm stanchions at least, rigid 7001 alu or chromoly. Smaller forks will twist under even 250W power with \~100-120kg system weight (rider + bike + motor + cargo)

Consider 250W is not 250W, 36v/15a (standard) is 540W peak, and 250W is the equivalent of two fit cyclists, or one Olympic sprinter.

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sc_BK@reddit

Well set up V brakes are fine, but hydraulic discs are better. So long as you're not towing a trailer or carrying huge loads all the time.

But then even with disc brakes, you get good ones and bad ones (and poorly maintained ones...)

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bowguru@reddit

I have a surley cross check I want to convert. Just wondering, it doesn't seem like the bike goes any faster than I'm used to going, it just makes it easier.

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Jamziboy0@reddit (OP)

noted! thanks

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Jamziboy0@reddit (OP)

Update incase anyone finds this in the future:

I bought a mid-drive conversion kit, fitting it as someone without specialist bike tools was a nightmare, unbelievably difficult to unscrew some seized bolts.

The bike is absolutely amazing, v brakes stop it with no problems (in the dry anyway).

It's not pretty and it's not light, but it's really enjoyable to ride, which was very important to me.

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Zenigata@reddit

I converted our long tail with a woosh tsdz8 mid kit last year and it's been great, loads of torque that can help haul us up any hill in sheffield. Torque sensing is pretty well done and the battery is nice and large.

Not sure I'd go mid somewhere flat though.

My wife's carrera subway ebike recently broke after 4 years of service and were most likely going to replace it with a mid kit bike, we do live somewhere made of hills though. the subway was pretty good, nice frame, great brakes, torque sensing beautifully done, lightweight for an ebike. However it didn't have enough torque for many of our hills and the battery was small (one reason it was so cheap and so light). Looking around it seems many cheap ebuikes have similarly diminutive batteries, the one which came with the woosh kit is nearly twice as large.

Previously did a hub conversion on our triple (couldn't figure out how to put a mid on it) pretty good but mid is much better for a heavy bike in a hilly area. also prefer woosh to dillinger, though dillinger were pretty good.

In your situation I'd probably get a woosh hub kit, which cost basically the same as the mid kits, several also have 60nm which isn't bad though substantially less than the 110nm the tsdz8 has.

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Jamziboy0@reddit (OP)

The subway is actually the bike I'm looking at, so that endorsement is very useful thank you! I've booked a halfords trial on it tomorrow, at least then i'll have a better idea of power for the hills.

I do live in quite a hilly area, it's just the bike path that is level, as it's built on an old railway line.

It seems like the consensus here is, as I'm inexperienced and have rim brakes, just get a store bike and upgrade in a few years.

Much appreciated!

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Zenigata@reddit

It would be an endorsement if not for the tiny battery which is a big problem. Not only does it mean that the range is very limited, it also means you have to charge the battery more often which significantly shortens the life of the battery.

As I said we're probably getting a kit this time round, mainly for battery size and mid motor reasons.

Disks are nicer but rim brakes are fine, ive been cycling for decades on tandems as more recently an electric triple with rim brakes and I guarantee you that you wont be placing more load on your brakes than those on my triple.

I must admit im a fairly experienced bike me panic but I found converting to be rally quite easy, maybe check out a video on the process and judge for yourself if you think you could manage it.

If you go the bike route definitely go for halfords or a lbs as yiu will need a local mechanic to service it and many wont touch ebikes their shop doesn't sell.

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Jamziboy0@reddit (OP)

Much appreciated,

I noticed you mentioned that the torque sensing was well done on the subway, but on their website, it says a cadence sensor.

I just tried out some bikes at a local shop, and I'm almost dead set on getting Torque, it's so much more fun and intuitive!

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Zenigata@reddit

I guess they may have changed things over the years since she bought hers. Shame because it was a really good aspect of the bike.

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funcentric@reddit

If you have to ask, it's generally recommended you get a retail bike.
Particularly if the bike isn't in good condition and doesn't have disk brakes, again, advice is to get a retail bike.
Especially if you are new to ebikes, definitely get a retail bike.
Yes, you'll notice immediately the difference between a hub drive that's typically cadence sensored and a torque sensored ebike. I explain the details here, https://youtu.be/hYVOXzqTl1Q?si=cg7GEv_JKFZSZvz0
You already suspect you should be getting a retail bike.

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Jamziboy0@reddit (OP)

Thanks, I was leaning towards a retail at the start of your comment but now i've watched your video, especially regarding enjoying riding and needing to sometimes go slowly, I think I really want torque sensing, and retail torque bikes seem out of my budget!

Appreciate the insight!

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funcentric@reddit

Sure thing. I don't push any particular direction overall. I do want to help people get what fits them though. It's often not about the device or product itself as much as it is about the fit to the buyer. Without considering torque vs cadence, one can easily buy the wrong bike from the beginning and have a terrible first time buying experience.

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Competitive_Pen_5713@reddit

Either or, but make sure you really know what you are doing if you fit a kit, or you could end up spending a lot more money than u planned on paper!

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Jamziboy0@reddit (OP)

I was worried about exactly that haha! Alright store bought it is

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My first ebike conversion was a basic bike with a fairly basic rear hub motor, with V brakes, and I was happy as a pig in shit, did 5,000 miles on that, and still have it at the back of the shed.