Toyota Camry vs Hyundai Sonata | Reliability vs Value [savagegeese]

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Tony-cums@reddit

Decades of evidence shows one is better than the other by light years. Critically think on why one is packed with tech but is still cheaper and has a shittier resale value.

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Red-Wedge-0516@reddit

Because the public is thinking Hyundai’s engine problems and the Kia Boyz phenomenon of the 2010s are still relevant as well as Hyundai producing their own steel, thereby keeping costs lower. Simple.

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Tony-cums@reddit

Dug up something 5 months old. To add nothing. Bizarre.

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Red-Wedge-0516@reddit

Added a legitimate response and comments are public record forever. It’s not like butter or milk that has an expiration date.

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Tony-cums@reddit

You didn’t critically think at all. You sound like a doofus.

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Red-Wedge-0516@reddit

Yes, I did. Thank you for the compliment regardless. 😊

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UniqueThanks@reddit

Camry or Accord for me. I don’t care how much value Hyundai packs into their cars. They’re just don’t have the same long term reliability or resale value

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The resale value part really flips the equation if you're on the other side and buying used though. If you're buying 3-5 years old, the hyundai would probably be more expensive on a few repairs, but it's so deeply discounted from depreciation that you can still come out ahead.

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UniqueThanks@reddit

That’s a good point, but I’d rather have a 3 year old Camry than a 3 year old Sonata

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accountforrealppl@reddit

I'd rather have a ferrari instead of my miata but it's more expensive For the same price, you'd either be comparing a top of the line sonata to a poverty spec camry, or a 3 year old sonata to a 5-6 year old camry

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smc733@reddit

I’d rather have the car whose engine won’t grenade at 80k miles while I’m going 70 mph on the highway.

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HomeRunEnjoyer@reddit

That hasn't been an issue for Hyundai in years. They completely scrapped the engine that was having those failures.

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smc733@reddit

The one they lied about saying was fixed in 2014, that they kept using until 2022? The one that blows up all the way through 2022 models? The one where they retaliated against a whistleblower and had their offices raided? What about the Nu engine that has the same issues. I take care of my cars meticulously, have had multiple Hondas and Toyotas go 200k. Had two Hyundais, were both junk by 80k

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HomeRunEnjoyer@reddit

Well my 2011 Sonata is running fine at 170k

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ThickCrepes@reddit

Mine running fine at 201k. 2007 v6

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CabernetSauvignon@reddit

I'd rather have a 6 year old Camry than a 3 year old sonata

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SizeableFowl@reddit

My momma always said stupid is as stupid does. Most people don’t hang on to cars for the 10+ years it would take for the reliability delta to actually matter between the Sonata and Camry. For example, you can find a 2023 Sonata that is CPO with a full 10 year 100k mile powertrain warranty. The Camry will have no warranty, and while you can argue about perceived reliability its hard for me to justify choosing a car with no warranty over a car that will have warranty for 7 more years.

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ergoproxyism@reddit

How many times do we have to go over this There is a massive gulf between Hyundai's stated warranty and the actual accessibility of getting said warranty work done. There are countless horror stories of customers having to fight tooth and nail to get stuff covered under their 10 year warranty because Hyundai would lose massive amounts of money if they actually universally serviced all these vehicles.

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SizeableFowl@reddit

Sounds like selection bias. You’re basing an opinion on a collection of people who went through the effort of complaining online. You don’t get your warranty cancelled unless you fail to maintain your car.

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ergoproxyism@reddit

Man, there is an upvoted post on this subreddit currently talking about how Hyundai Corporate repeatedly denied his warranty request for no reason, forcing him to go through the Better Business Bureau.

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SizeableFowl@reddit

I submit to you that we probably have a very one sided story. You are, of course, welcome to believe what you read.

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ergoproxyism@reddit

Maybe. Then again, i've dealt with Hyundai's dealership network personally, so I can totally believe any negative story about Hyundai, to be quite frank.

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SizeableFowl@reddit

I’ve owned 2 Hyundais, ‘13 Genesis Coupe that needed an engine and a ‘23 Santa Fe that has been great. In either instance the dealerships have been consistent with dealers from other manufacturers.

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MisterMakena@reddit

This. Besides the quality gap is narrowing and paying premium for Toyota could end up costing more even if you had a lower "quality" car. And, I trust a 5 uear old Toyota than I do the newest models which have had their share of recalls, complaints.

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jmbre11@reddit

15 year old Camry vs a new sonata. And it’s still an easy choice.

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xselimbradleyx@reddit

And it’s not even close.

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fhs@reddit

Having driven used Hyundais and Kias and saw their problems, nope, I would never buy one, new or used

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Innocent-Bystander94@reddit

Well, there’s a reason for that. You’re most likely going to be paying for a new engine soon with that used Hyundai

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Educational_Age_1333@reddit

Don't they have a 10 year powertrain warranty?

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absolute_imperial@reddit

Hyundai corporate will do anything they can to weasel out of denying a claim on their warranty. I had to appeal through the BBB for 3 months to get them to replace the engine in my 2017 Sonata after they denied my claim for 'lack of maintenance' despite proof of oil changes almost every 2,000 miles between 40k and 70k miles because the engine kept burning so much oil. Hyundai corporate is shady. I wont buy a Hyundai again and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone based on my experiences with them. Their cars aren't reliable and they will try to deny warranty claims when their cars inevitably fail.

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dietchaos@reddit

So you bought a used car. Only new and certified pre owned get a manufacturer warranty.

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absolute_imperial@reddit

Not at all. Car was used but still covered under warranty. Hyundai Corporate tried to deny my claim. They lost on appeal with the BBB and had to replace my engine ...because it was covered under manufacturer warranty.

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dietchaos@reddit

Used isn't certified pre owned. Only certified pre-owned come with any manufacturer warranty. Read the paperwork when you make expensive purchases.

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sephirothwasright@reddit

Unless there are state specific rules (like the Hyundai lawsuit warranties in certain areas IIRC), manufacturer warranties travel with the VIN. It's extended ones you buy where it gets tricky re transfer.

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absolute_imperial@reddit

Still got my car fixed under warranty so idk what you want, dude.

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eurojosh@reddit

A new car warranty that’s still in effect transfers to the new owner. *insert snarky comment about reading the print when you buy something expensive*

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trackdaybruh@reddit

You had proof for maintenance between 40k-70k, how about from 0-40k?

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absolute_imperial@reddit

I had that as well (and provided it as part of my claim), but the point of contention in their written response to my BBB appeal argued that I didn't maintain the car between 40k & 70k miles. Didn't make a lot of sense, but anything to try to screw over a customer and save make the numbers look better at the end of the year to investors, I guess.

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cat_prophecy@reddit

I believe it's not transferrable to the next owner.

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ItsyaboiIida@reddit

It isn't. It will knock it down to the standard 5 year 60k for the next owner. Unless the dealer has their own warranty. My local Hyundai dealer has an unlimited mile warranty on the powertrain and a 7 year 100k mile warranty on the electrical system.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

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eh_itzvictor@reddit

Not on the new ones. No notable failures on any of their new Gen engines, at least not the past 5 years. Hopefully that still stands in 2030 🤞

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cat_prophecy@reddit

The value proposition for a Toyota is much better for new than used. Especially if it's a popular model.

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Civilianscum@reddit

for a 1 year old sure, but after on 3rd year that augment falls off fast, its about a 10k difference. Bought a used 2021 in 2024 highlander and after all said and done i saved 11k including the Toyota extended care warranty to 2031 100k miles.

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accountforrealppl@reddit

That's still very small in comparison to most vehicles. That's a ~20% depreciation over 3 years, whereas the average vehicle is close to 40%. It's not that you're not saving money on used, it's that the value of a used toyota relative to a different used vehicle is worse, looking at only the purchase price at least. Whether or not the toyota is still the better choice after you consider that it will continue holding its value and that it will probably be cheaper in maintenance and repairs depends on a lot of factors.

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fobbyk@reddit

Had 2.4 NA honda. Nah it’s less reliable than an ecoboost mustang which is a sports car that I drive hard once in a while. All those jacked up price Hondas with 2.4 makes me laugh. VCT actuator issue is common, valve cover leak is also common, and oil consumption issue is so common people just top off their oil once in a while.

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WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit

Says a Swasticar owner.

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Innocent-Bystander94@reddit

The greatest value a car has is to always run every time you want/need it to and not leave you stranded. I’ll sacrifice every fancy feature for that alone. Give me the Honda/Toyota any day of the week I’m personally of the opinion that only idiots buy anything else in the price range

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SnowDucks1985@reddit

Why is this getting disliked lmaoo, not getting stranded or becoming the mechanic’s cash cow should be the main priority folks 😭 where reliability is concerned, really Japanese autos have the best track record in that regard (well maybe not Nissan but lol)

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fhs@reddit

Well because reliability is only one part of auto experience and other people might enjoy other things, life's too short to drive boring reliable boxes.

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MALLAVOL@reddit

I don’t necessarily disagree, but neither of the BMWs I’ve owned have ever left me high and dry, either.

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w0nderbrad@reddit

I’m a Toyota/Lexus lifer at this point but I can see why other people buy other cars. They’re not idiots. Well unless you’re buying a Range Rover instead of leasing it.

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TurkeyBLTSandwich@reddit

Avoid the Accords 1.5 Turbo CVT combo. Its so bad they dropped it from the Civic line. If youre buying any Honda now just go with the 2.0 N/A or 2.0 Hybrid. The 3.5s SHOULD be okay. But the cylinder deactivation has always been an iffy issue. Just get a Camry Hybrid end of store or Honda Civic Hybrid or 2.0 base Ive seen break downs of L15 engines and yeah those are some not great engines. Can't say anything good about Hyundai/Kia UNLESS its an EV, but I keep hearing about dealerships not honoring warranties or buyback without lawyer intervention

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Absurdity_Everywhere@reddit

The accord is great as long as you don’t need to put an adult in the back seats. Ever. It has the worst headroom in the back of any midsize I’ve ever sat in.

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longgamma@reddit

If you score a cheap lease deal on the Hyundai, does it really matter?

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IllustriousSteam@reddit

Hyundai reliability confuses me. They have a good reputation everywhere besides North America, yet it’s still very common to see 15-20 year old Hyundais over here that look beat to hell rolling around. It’s like the import equivalent of “A Chevy will run like shit for longer than most cars run”.

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TheAbdominal_Snowman@reddit

The engine failure was a USA production issue. The engine failures and run of easily stolen cars contributed to their low resale value. Then, the cheap used cars got bought by people without a lot of money to spare who are less likely to take good care of them. Similar to what you see with the notorious Altima - it's not a terrible car. Some of the owners, on the other hand...

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accountforrealppl@reddit

By most reliability metrics they're pretty average. They had some major engine issues a while back but afaik those are resolved and cars without those engines (theta I believe?) are fine. Their bad reputation becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy though. They can't sell for much new and they depreciate faster because they aren't known to be reliable. So people with less money buy them, who are more likely to beat on the car and defer maintenance and repairs. If an 8 year old toyota has an issue, the owner assumes that the car still has value and will run just fine for a long time if they keep it up, so they're going to get it fixed as it arises. If an 8 year old hyundai has an issue, the owner will assume that tbe car will be worthless in a few years anyways and will just have 2 new issues pop up as soon as they fix the one (even if that isn't the case), so they don't spend money getting it fixed. So the toyotas stay nice and dependable, and the hyundais turn to shitboxes

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t-poke@reddit

I don't know Hyundai engines that well, would the Theta have been the engine in a 2014 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T? That's the car my mom had until she passed in 2023. We were looking to sell it quick and easy even if it meant not getting the full value (so no Craigslist BS), so my dad drove it to a Hyundai dealer to see what they'd buy it for. By pure coincidence, the engine blew in the dealer's parking lot, but without *any* pushback or hassle, they told him it was covered, sent him home in a loaner, and we picked it up a week later with a new engine. Ended up selling to Carmax because they offered quite a bit more, but I was shocked at how smooth the repair process was. Wasn't even the dealer they bought the car at. So I figure that's the one Hyundai's been having lots of problems with. Other than that, my family's had several Hyundais without any issues. Prior to the Santa Fe, my mom had a 2004 Sonata that was problem free for 10 years and 100+k miles before she was rear ended and it was totaled. My brother had a 2005 Elantra that he also got well over 10 years out of before that was totaled, he replaced it with a 2017 (I think? Somewhere around there) Elantra that's been problem free. My dad has a 2021 Santa Fe Calligraphy that he absolutely loves. I'm the only one in my immediate family that doesn't have a Hyundai, and *checks flair*, close enough I guess.

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kyonkun_denwa@reddit

The 15-20 year old Hyundais you're seeing likely had the Beta II, which was a fantastic engine. A friend of mine had a 2010 Elantra Touring and the thing is Corolla levels of reliable. 320,000km and zero issues. I was actually planning to buy it before circumstances lead me to take my mom's XC70 off her. But the car was cheap to buy and is cheap to run; the only reason he wanted to get rid of it was because he was looking for an upgrade. There was a guy in Québec who took a Beta II equipped Elantra to 1,000,000km: https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/quebec-man-drives-2008-hyundai-elantra-1-million-kilometers-in-10-years Also the *original* Lambda V6 was pretty reliable. Not quite VQ35 or 2GR-FE levels of good, but I would probably trust it over a Honda J35 with the cylinder deactivation, and it was unquestionably better than anything the Americans were putting out in the mid 2000s.

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a_berdeen@reddit

Hyundai-Kia had a couple lemon engines when the cars started becoming “good” in the 2010s. Add on kia boys and reputations was killed. The cars are generally pretty good though.

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Innocent-Bystander94@reddit

Their engines still have problems. They make for excellent leases for this reason though. Use it during warranty, enjoy the features, then turn it in to be someone else’s problem.

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cookingboy@reddit

I can’t praise the current gen Accord hybrid well enough. What a great car for its price. Oh it has better steering than my BMWs out there lmao.

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SnowDucks1985@reddit

> Oh it has better steering feel than most BMWs out there lol. I’m dead lmao, you did not write this with a straight face 😭😭

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cookingboy@reddit

I know it has better steering feel than my i4 or the F30 335i I owned for sure. In fact yeah, I think it does have better steering feel than most EPS BMWs. Is your experience much different?

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SnowDucks1985@reddit

To each their own I guess lol, always learning something new everyday

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hehechibby@reddit

> What a great car for its price while I agree it has better driving dynamics and steering feel, I think it could be better priced compared to the Camry? Just looking at starting prices of the Camry LE (since all camry are hybrid) at $29k versus the Accord sport hybrid (cheapest hybrid) at $33,795 in the camry you're getting a hybrid for cheaper, more power, better fuel economy and can even add ~$1500 for AWD that isn't available at all on the Accord (and still end up cheaper) imo I still think in the honda sedan lineup, the Civic is just overall the better buy unless one really wants the larger size and it has to be a Honda

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cookingboy@reddit

> Just looking at starting prices of the Camry LE (since all camry are hybrid) at $29k versus the Accord sport hybrid (cheapest hybrid) at $33,795 I see. I have not driven the new Camry hybrid actually, so I'm not gonna argue back. Are they fun to drive now? Old Camrys were about as engaging to drive as a block of wet tofu lol.

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absolute_imperial@reddit

Can't speak to previous Camry hybrids, but the new Camry's with gen 5 toyota hybrid system have great throttle response and steering for an economy car. 2.5L engine, hybrid motors, and 225 horsepower makes getting acceleration between 30 and 70 very good. Idk if you'd call it a 'fun' car but it definitely drives better than ICE camrys of previous gens.

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cookingboy@reddit

That sounds promising! I loved the new Prius as well, which had an even worse reputation among enthusiasts. So glad to see that Toyota is getting sportier these days.

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t-poke@reddit

I'm not going to lie, the new Prius is a compelling option for when my lease is up in two years. It's one of the few cars under $40k that has all the creature comforts I want (ventilated seats being the most notable one) and the fuel economy can't be beat. Yeah, it's not EV, but I don't drive enough to continue making the price premium of an EV worth it. The difference between a top trim Prius and any EV with all the stuff I want pays for a lot of gas and oil changes.

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cookingboy@reddit

The biggest issue I have with it is the poor noise insulation. It was pretty noisy even on the butter smooth Japanese highways at 60-70mph, so can’t imagine at higher speed on American pavement.

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boomerbill69@reddit

> Oh it has better steering feel than most BMWs out there lol. so does a fisher price car

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SeizetheCastle@reddit

Buy the Toyota. All cars went down in quality but Toyota still has superior reliability. Everyone I know who has a Hyundai has needed a ton of repairs and often at least one replacement engine. Sure they have a good warranty but the warranty isn't worth the hassle and uncertainty. My mom's friend bought a brand new Hyundai no more than five years ago and that pile of garbage is on its THIRD engine and has had several other issues. It has computer failure and suddenly lost power without any warning at least a couple times. My Toyota has well over 250,000 miles just like the Toyotas my friends and neighbors have and we have only done minor things here and there. Original engine and transmission with no issues. Our Toyotas outlast every other brand of car on the street. Even the better Hyundai vehicles that are well maintained never last as long as a Toyota. If reliability is important to you then don't buy a Hyundai.

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bolivar-shagnasty@reddit

I used to live in Montgomery, AL where they build Hyundias. It seemed like every Korean executive at HMAA drove Hondas or Toyotas. That's enough of a bellwether for me.

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IStillLikeBeers@reddit

> It seemed like every Korean executive at HMAA drove Hondas or Toyotas. Then they're driving them to see the competition because there's absolutely no reason why an exec wouldn't be driving their free Hyundais that they get to switch for a new one, for free, every year. Every OEM I've ever heard of has an extremely generous exec demo car policy. Even low level workers often get access to the fleet to daily drive as they check them in and out when not being used for press.

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ergoproxyism@reddit

All the Koreans who live/lived in my area all drove Lexuses when they actually got money.

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clownpirate@reddit

It is difficult and expensive to buy non-Korean cars in Korea, though it has become significantly easier nowadays than in the past. So if you have the chance to come and live in the US, why not try something new? When I was a kid growing up, if the folks back home in Korea asked what you drove in the US, and you said “Hyundai”, they’d say “you want through all the trouble to go to the US just to end up still driving a Hyundai???”

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aprtur@reddit

That's an interesting point - reminds me a lot of when I was growing up and saw what my best friend's parents drove (they are second generation Koreans). Ford F-150, Lincoln Towncar, Lexus LX. They never owned a Korean made car, and didn't buy them for their kids either.

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AwesomeBantha@reddit

When I was in high school, the most common car driven by Korean parents was a Mercedes GL/GLE. The ultimate flex would have been a GLS with a Harvard/Stanford/MIT sticker in the rear window.

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clownpirate@reddit

When I was in high school, the GLE did not exist and the ML that would become it was a year or so still in the future. Wow I feel old.

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handymanshandle@reddit

This is incredibly accurate. Used to work at one of the Toyota plants and a lot of the guys from Japan (that cared, anyways) were driving cars not sold there or are comically impractical to own there (primarily stuff like the Tundra, Tacoma and Sequoia, as well as the Supra). Why drive what you can have back home when you can experience something you've never had the chance to otherwise?

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

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despalicious@reddit

A while back the VW and Audi execs only drove their own brands (probably still), and that was a big reason why they had no idea what quality meant.

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LiberDeOpp@reddit

Mostly rentals I would venture, all our higher ups had new Hyundais or genesis vehicles.

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Beginning_Gain_9007@reddit

I would also venture to guess Hyundai has a vehicle benefit for higher ups that allow them to drive around in one of their vehicles for cheap or next to nothing.

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Innocent-Bystander94@reddit

Honda doesn’t do rentals so I doubt it. Also, higher ups can get luxury cars for rentals, so again, doubt.

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AwesomeBantha@reddit

Rental companies are or were buying newish used cars wholesale during COVID. Led to some weird and sometimes modified vehicles in rental pools.

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nukelauncher95@reddit

Honda *officially* doesn't sell fleet vehicles, but they'll alway make deals. Back in 2015-2016 the dealership chain I worked for opened a Sixt rental franchise and we had a fleet of brand new Civics and Accords bought from American Honda Finance Corp.

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mr_bots@reddit

Honda doesn’t do rentals? My last rental from National was a CR-V.

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LiberDeOpp@reddit

Probably true if the far parking for hourly you'd see all kinds of cars but all the close management parking you'd see Hyundai and genesis vehicles. Which Hyundai does new loaners from the local dealerships for visiting higher management.

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AwesomeBantha@reddit

I live near DC and therefore see quite a few cars with diplomatic plates, it’s pretty easy to identify what foreign mission a vehicle is registered through. Lots of Korean diplomats drive 5-10 year old Toyotas. Mostly Hyundai/Genesis, Toyota is probably in the #3 spot, followed by Mercedes. I went to a high school that was around 20% Korean but few Korean parents drove Korean cars, mostly Toyota/Lexus/Mercedes, granted this was before Genesis was really a thing. Also saw Japanese diplomatic plates on a late model Elantra.

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dietchaos@reddit

You don't gotta lie to kick it.

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bolivar-shagnasty@reddit

>You don't gotta lie to kick it. I have no idea what that sentence means.

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dietchaos@reddit

It means you don't have to make shit up to be part of a community.

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MALLAVOL@reddit

Yep, it’s like how Google Pixel developers use iPhones as their daily drivers. Look at what people actually use, not what they sell.

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Skinnieguy@reddit

I know someone who works for Toyota. They regularly rent out other manufacturers’ cars for testing.

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CuddleTeamCatboy@reddit

Ford’s CEO mentioned on a podcast that he liked the Xiaomi that he was testing so much that he kept driving it for months

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LiberDeOpp@reddit

Hyundai is smart following the Chinese model of moving luxury and tech down market. Once electrics become cost parity there is no reliability difference. Even now I've owned more Hyundai than toyotas and had zero major mechanical issues with either. Over 100k and ten years I'll buy a Toyota other than that they are same-same.

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CuddleTeamCatboy@reddit

Hyundai has somehow managed to introduce powertrain failures to EVs with their faulty inverters, so I'm not quite sure about them closing the reliability gap in the future.

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LiberDeOpp@reddit

I mean they just built a new mega factory so it's more of a process troubleshooting but once evs are locked in it's just rinse and repeat. I've toured them and other factories. Evs are inherently less maintenance minus additional tire wear. If you have additional data to share I'd love to see it.

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t-poke@reddit

But are they troubleshooting? ICCU failures have been happening since the EGMP cars first came out in 2002. And they're happening on US built cars, so it's not limited to the Korean factory. They keep putting the same faulty part in and are not making any effort to find and fix the design flaw causing these in the first place. And the fucking dealers aren't helping. There's a post in the EV6 subreddit where someone's ICCU blew on their brand new, 2025 EV6 and the dealer told them they can't get a loaner until they have an official diagnosis. Total bullshit. If a 4 month old is coming into the dealer on a flatbed, that should be an automatic loaner, no questions asked. I like my car, but there's no way in hell I'm keeping it after my lease ends in two years.

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WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit

Eww. Says an EV6 owner. And eGMP cars came out in 2002?

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t-poke@reddit

It’s called a typo. Ever made one? And why are you following me around this thread and replying to everything? What’s your problem?

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LiberDeOpp@reddit

To me the Hyundai dealers are the biggest drawback not the cars themselves. The iccu issue is addressed but it really depends on actual failure rates due to people having problems being the most vocal. For instance if the failure is 1-100k than it's an investigation that determines user, factory/components issue. Easiest fix is better customer service/dealer addressing the outside issue while working internally to find causation.

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t-poke@reddit

I think the official word from Hyundai is it's 1% of eGMP vehicles affected by the ICCU, but real world numbers indicate it might be higher. Of course, as you said, people with problems are more vocal. But still, 1 out of 100 is a lot. And it would be one thing if the ICCU only failed when you tried to turn the car on. Okay, at least you're safe in your garage or a parking lot. But it can fail at any time and force you to pull over to the side of the road. I don't know why it's not getting more attention than it is. Maybe there just aren't enough eGMP vehicles being sold so they can fly under the radar. If 1 out of 100 Teslas or even popular ICE vehicles like a RAV4 or F-150 could just die at any point with no notice, and the fix was to replace the faulty part with another one with the same design flaw, it would be a huge deal.

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WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit

As you swear that eGMP cars came out in 2002, they must have sorted a lot of kinks by now......good luck with your DeLorean hitting 88 mph.

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ChaosBerserker666@reddit

I had a drivetrain error in my BMW i4, we were the first one to get it fixed in Canada, and the dealer and BMW had a solution within 3 days (it was a firmware and software issue which also killed our TPMS which they also replaced at their cost). No arguments or anything, they just fixed it. They also gave us an almost base i4 as a loaner with no questions asked. If I were in your situation I’d do exactly what you’re doing.

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cat_prophecy@reddit

All manufacturers basically let their dealers get away with anything. It's just a smoke screen between them and the customer so they can claim it's a dealer problem. Toyota did a recall for the second row seats in the Sienna. Of course it's recalled with no parts available to actually do the recall. So many people have been told "tough shit" when they ask for a loaner and Toyotas official line is that they can't force the dealer to give you a loaner. So people with brand new cars cant use the second row and if they want the recall done, they need to accept to be without a car at all for an indeterminate amount of time.

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BahnMe@reddit

Not true at all regarding dealers. Porsche, BMW, Audi, etc dealer survey results are critical for their business.

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teggyteggy@reddit

And not so critical for a company like Toyota, who can put markups and random equipment on their Camry's and still sell out

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CuddleTeamCatboy@reddit

The integrated inverter/charging units used across the E-GMP models have a manufacturing defect that causes them to fail, [rendering the car completely immobile.](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-hyundai-ioniq-6-yearlong-review-update-3-iccu-recall) This is really the first major reliability issue that actually affects the powertrain of an EV, EV recalls have historically been for the batteries or software.

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LiberDeOpp@reddit

Yup I've seen that! Still stands if it's under warranty it's more of hey this didn't work, what caused it and where on the assembly line do we need additional qc. Sometimes it's a supplier batch that gets recalled. I prefer hyundai/lg pouches over rolled cells but end of the day evs are very reliable.

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BahnMe@reddit

If you actually own one, you’d be experiencing a major delay (months) to get parts to get it fixed.

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bullet50000@reddit

Except that’s not the case anymore? I had mine go and it took 3 days

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WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit

Says an Ioniq 5 owner. I sat in an Ioniq 5 and it became one of my dream cars (same with the Ioniq 6).

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LiberDeOpp@reddit

Yeah that's the problem just throw them in another vehicle and swap everything and be done with it.

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statmelt@reddit

So, it's exactly the same situation as with ICE vehicles. Hyundai produces cars with reliability issues.

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

>Hyundai is smart following the Chinese model of moving luxury and tech down market. Just wonder how they can succeed in that in North America, as local people can't and would probably never be able to buy Chinese EVs.

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WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit

>Aston Martin Vanquish r/askashittymechanic

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Weak-Specific-6599@reddit

Lol, the Vanquish thrown in as a wildcard. Camry wins hands down for the dealer network alone. Reliability is about more than just the vehicle itself. Hyundai/Kia dealers are legendary for their poor service.

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longgamma@reddit

This is gonna trip up ChatGPT 6 somehow lol

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WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit

There is ChatGPT 6? I'm probably living under a rock since I switched to Gemini quite a long time ago.

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Sriracha01@reddit

I experienced this first hand with my Kia Niro. Just getting to check my car was a $279 diagnostic fee. Trying to nickel and dime everyone means that you made that much harder to consider your next car with them.

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smellons@reddit

Out of warranty you’d be crazy to go to the dealership though

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Innocent-Bystander94@reddit

Sometimes OEM parts are the best choice. And a dealership is mighty convenient to get them at, even if on the expensive side

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cat_prophecy@reddit

And there is sometimes a dearth of independent shops. Or they suck in general.

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Mytre-@reddit

I ended up with a Hyundai sonata hybrid after test driving Toyota and Honda and Hyundai. Maybe I am lucky but my dealership is nice, service is good they have checked my car no issues and have a nice rest area plus on my previous car which was a cpo sonata 2018 they took care of everything with the warranty the car had no cost and no discussions. The 10 year warranty and features put the sonata above the Camry and Honda. Hell the Toyota dealerships all had a 5k to 10k markup on their Camrys and were outright aggressive when trying to discuss it since it was "market adjustment ". Honda dealership was bad and when I asked why couldn't I get the accord with at least a sunroof or blind spot they told me " you don't need that". And I mean I don't but I wanted it lol. Plus my parents owned a hrv and their dealership which was next to mine was bad. Treated them badly and I remember how they charged for a issue with the seat in the Honda and we had to call up the dealership sales manager to get it fixed by warranty ... I don't get why the reals value on Toyota keeps being so high also as they are having recalls and other issues too, I get is brand perception because honestly the warranty plus tech in the Camry feels old, still a great car that feels sporty but I can't complain with my 360 degree camera and cooled seats on my sonata. Wish it came with the features it has in Korea though ( integrated dashcam, rear window automatic sunshade,etc).

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MisterMakena@reddit

Brand perception is a real thing and is why Toyota sells...reputation. That said, as technology integrates more with manufacturing and production the gap is even narrower. Same like Sony Panasonic to LG and Samsung....

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RamenWrestler@reddit

Had a rental 2025 Sonata with the N/A I4 recently and the transmission was slipping with only 2000 miles. Also had the most uncomfortable modern seats I've been in and the ride wasn't great.

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mgobla@reddit

Most Hyundai are much more reliable than brand haters on reddit pretend, it's brand based trash talk. Sure, they have some bad models, but so does every brand, even Toyota. The bad models have no influence on other models that don't have any of the problematic parts in them. Base engine Sonata are offered with discounts for less than $25k, a big, comfortable sedan with decent noise insulation (much quieter and much more comfortable than equally priced compacts like Corolla, base Civic, etc) under $25k, but reddit trash talks it and at the same time complains about how affordable cars don't exist and complains about people taking out 72+ month loans and having high car payments...

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absolute_imperial@reddit

Hyundai reliability engine problems (and very recently EV problems) are a very real issue. Class action lawsuits over their theta 2 engines and anti-theft issues have impacted millions of Hyundai vehicles. It isn't just internet trash talk.

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mgobla@reddit

You just proved my point by ignoring what I wrote. Current Sonata does not have Theta engines and it's not an EV so why would it have the issues of the Theta engines and the EVs. It does not have any of the problematic parts of the other cars you mentioned. It's like discrediting a Camry with engine issues of Toyota's V6 Turbo engine that Camry doesn't use.

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smc733@reddit

Why should I trust a company’s new engine when they used a known defective one for years, lied about the depth of the issue, kept using it for years thereafter, and retaliated against whistleblowers? No thanks.

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absolute_imperial@reddit

>You just proved my point by ignoring what I wrote. Lmao no. that's not how it works. Your point doesn't have evidence. Only evidence we have is that Hyundai is historically unreliable. Sonatas and Kias are still having anti-theft issues, and recently Ioniqs have been bricking.

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SnowDucks1985@reddit

Yea like thousands of people have literally been injured and/or died over Hyundai’s engine issues, it’s a safety hazard and who knows if their current cars have the same issues. For them to say Hyundai has no problematic parts is crazy work lol

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Feisty_Panda3063@reddit

I don’t know about the newer model Sonatas but my 2009 Sonata just hit 160k miles couple of days ago.

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NarcoticCow@reddit

Sonata all day Reliability concerts are overblown, and even still - sonata has that 10 year 100k mi warranty. No im not biased

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Kindly-Emergency-514@reddit

I much, much, much prefer the Sonata, but I don't trust their hybrid systems the same way I do Toyota. I'd get an N-Line.

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thatgymdude@reddit

If I was buying it I would take the Camry without question. If I was leasing I would take the Sonata without question. This is kind of like Lexus vs Mercedes all over again but at the economy pricepoint. I do hope Hyundai and Kia make more reliable cars going forward as I liked the Santa Fe alot for an economy car but I could not forgive them putting a DCT in it.

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testthrowawayzz@reddit

Interesting to hear about the jerkiness of Hyundai’s hybrid system. I thought it would just feel like a traditional automatic based on the setup. I’m not feeling the front of either of these two cars though. A bit too overstyled.

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blr1g@reddit

I don't know what they're talking about. I had the last generation Sonata hybrid on loaner, and I also have a Toyota Rav4 Prime. The Hyundai hybrid was just as good as the Toyota in regular hybrid mode. It had amazing fuel efficiency too.

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SavageGooseJack@reddit

Thanks for posting OP. Here to answer questions per usual. Happy holidays to everyone and their families.

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Essexyobbo@reddit

Recently traded in our 14yo Kia Optima EX for a 26 Genesis G70. The Kia was as dependable as a hammer but SWMBO wanted a car with the latest safety tech. She fell in love with the G70.

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caterham09@reddit

I think the biggest argument in favor of the camry is just the resale value. It's probably cheaper in the long run and likely more reliable

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generalright@reddit

I really didn’t like the pedal feel of the Vanquish, so that was at the bottom of the list for me.

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