TheaterFire

UK Lawmakers Propose Mandatory On-Device Surveillance and VPN Age Verification, what does that mean for linux, in particular ubuntu?

Posted by DoubleOwl7777@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 42 comments

Reply to Post

42 Comments

Klapperatismus@reddit

It means that you need to vote those people out of parliament. As they are unfit for that job.
View on Reddit #73917734

AlonsoCid@reddit

This means that Brits will enjoy their votes. Aside from that, there's nothing for Linux. If you're tech-savvy, you can overcome these artificial barriers. Even in China, people find ways to bypass government limitations, the British government won't do a better job.
View on Reddit #73815386

fellipec@reddit

I means that r/stallmanwasright once more
View on Reddit #73639880

zardvark@reddit

It means that George Orwell was right, more like.
View on Reddit #73647682

fellipec@reddit

Orwell, Huxley, Pondsmith, Bradburry... Those guys tried to warn us, but people keep using their work as instruction manuals.
View on Reddit #73649481

mrdeworde@reddit

Next you'll be complaining about the Torment Nexus project. (/s)
View on Reddit #73800981

gogybo@reddit

Copying and pasting my comment here: This is the House of Lords, ie the chamber that has fuck all power. What's more, none of the "lords" (they're not real lords any more) that have proposed these amendments are even of the governing party.  If the government had wanted these amendments in the bill, it would have put them in there in the first place. This is just a little group of self-righteous cunts looking to push an agenda by proposing ridiculous amendments. Edit: Quick and dirty explainer on how it all works: bills start in the House of Commons and are normally put forward by the government. They get worked on for a while in various committees until everyone's happy, and then they're sent to the Lords for review. The Lords can propose amendments but the gov't (which sits in the Commons btw) is free to ignore them. The Lords can also block a bill if they're really against it but they can only do this three times I believe before it automatically goes through, and it's extremely rare anyway for them to do this, like a once per generation sort of thing. 
View on Reddit #73641971

manobataibuvodu@reddit

What's the purpose of the house of lords then?
View on Reddit #73643592

Age_of_Statmar@reddit

Free money for rich people
View on Reddit #73793516

gogybo@reddit

People have been asking that for 100+ years ;) To try and make the case for it though - the Lords is less dominated by party politics than the Commons (because they're appointed for life) so they tend to be quite good at properly scrutinising legislation which the gov't may have rushed through the Commons. They might not have a proper veto any more but it's still very embarrassing for a gov't to lose a vote, even if it's in the Lords. Makes them look weak and incompetent (imagine that?) so if a bill is defeated and sent back to the Commons they'll normally change it enough to make sure it passes the next time. That's the idea nowadays anyway. The reality is, we ended up with the current system basically by accident and there's no proper reason for any of it. 
View on Reddit #73645422

manobataibuvodu@reddit

Is there any talk about changing that? I know it's not often that the government structures change, but it does happen sometimes (eg in Lithuania we recently-ish introduced 2 term limit for city mayors, we used to not have any limits and it was a bit problematic)
View on Reddit #73646912

jimicus@reddit

Fairly regularly. The problem is that - for all its faults (and nobody's pretending there aren't any) - the Lords have this awkward tendency to overall be a force for good. Their oversight tends to be non-partisan and fairly grown up precisely because they don't really have to care what's going to be in the papers tomorrow. And nobody has yet managed to figure out a way of resolving the faults inherent with the Lords that doesn't also destroy the things that make them a force for good.
View on Reddit #73654666

lisa_lionheart@reddit

Make the appointments chosen by an independent board, change the name to "senate" or something that does sound so fudal and abolish any ability to veto so it's just advisory and I would be all for it
View on Reddit #73748064

lisa_lionheart@reddit

Labour promised to replace the lord's with an elected second chamber but I doubt they are actually going to do that now they are in.
View on Reddit #73747851

gogybo@reddit

Oh there's always talk, there's just rarely any action. The last big change was in the late 90s when most of the old hereditary lords were kicked out, but for some unfathomable reason they decided to let 92 of them stay and that's the way it's remained ever since.  Basically everybody is in favour of kicking the remaining hereditaries out (having actual Dukes and Earls knocking about in Parliament is embarrassing even for us) but there's no agreement at all on what should be done with the HoL apart from that. Some want a fully elected second chamber, some think it should be scrapped entirely, and some think it should be appointed (as it is now) but by an independent panel (rather than the gov't) who would choose the top people from science, arts, industry etc to serve for a number of years.  Most people though don't give a shit, which is kind of why nothing gets done. 
View on Reddit #73648371

20dogs@reddit

Also if you're a government looking to get re-elected, Lords reform is seen as something that takes up a lot of time with little benefit.
View on Reddit #73662845

Suspicious-Limit8115@reddit

Lithuania benefits from being smaller, and thus easier to change. The biggest benefit and drawback of larger countries is always that their resistance to reform is high, even astronomical in the largest ones.
View on Reddit #73652165

Kulgur@reddit

Plenty, dissolution of the Lord's comes up on a fairly frequent basis
View on Reddit #73648481

ITaggie@reddit

Sounds similar to the original concept of a Senate.
View on Reddit #73670573

kalzEOS@reddit

Duh, they all have rings.
View on Reddit #73740928

MetaTrombonist@reddit

It's where rich people go to feel important.
View on Reddit #73644567

pervertsage@reddit

Wasn't that Epstein's island?
View on Reddit #73669124

stevecrox0914@reddit

Mostly a check and balance. Originally a king and queen took council from advisors (typically lords, knights and senior church members). These council sessions were called parliment. Under Henry 8th parliment was divided into a house of lords (made up of lords and senior church figures) and house of commons (made up of commoners like knights). Parliment became a way to raise issues, offer advice, etc....  Members of parliment would occasionally be tasked to perform roles for the King, with Charles 1st. Parliment became soverign and stood over the monarch. The Act of the Union brought in ministries of the crown to represent the monarch on issues in parliment, this was the government. Ministers were normally lords but over time increasingly came from the house of commons, WW1 represented an key point where it was decided a lord could no longer act as prime minister. The prime minister must come from the house of commons Fast forward to the 00's and the house of lords was reformed, hereditary lords were kicked out. Instead the house of commons would be able to nominate people with service to the UK to the house of lords. That government tried to be wise in creating a balance, the next political party took power for 14 years and did their best to stuff the house with their political representatives.  As part of the reforms the house of lords can't really propose legislation, (they can but the house of commons can ignore it), but legislation from the commons must be reviewed by the lords within a set time frame.  The house of lords can amend legislation and send it back if they don't like it but they can only do this 3 times. It means they can put upto a 5 year break on legislation, so in theory the government needs to expend real political effort tonget some things through. In theory it should have been a major break on brexit, but 10 years of being stuffed by lackys messed that up. So this has come from lords strongly affiliated by a party not in power and unlikely to ever retain it. So you can just ignore it
View on Reddit #73661010

AtlanticPortal@reddit

The purpose is that they’ve been there since the dark ages when John “granted” the Magna Charta. As time passed the Commons grew in power since the Government needs their approval to remain in their post. Moreover the Crown has the power to appoint as many Lords as the Crown wishes and that power is actually exercised by the Monarch under the advice of the PM, which is always under the Commons’ control (customarily leader of the majority party). Basically the Commons can threaten to pack the Lords with enough new peers to pass anything they want.
View on Reddit #73655719

BlackStar4@reddit

A retirement home for has-been politicians. No really, making someone a Lord is a good way to get them out of the House of Commons (where the real power is).
View on Reddit #73655487

LostGeezer2025@reddit

It's been removed, since they tossed out the legacy ex-aristocrats it's basically been a well upholstered retirement club for establishment politicians :(
View on Reddit #73654174

ICantBelieveItsNotEC@reddit

The house of lords exists to scrutinise the house of commons. The lords are appointed for life, which means they aren't subject to the political pressure of MPs in the commons. It's basically a check on democracy itself; a circuit breaker that triggers when the rhetoric in the commons gets too silly and populist. Brexit was a good example of the HoL working as intended. The government initially wanted to pass a bill that would take us out of the EU without a withdrawal agreement in place. The HoL rejected it for obvious reasons, which is why we ended up with a much more sensible bill that clarifies the situation in Northern Ireland, the status of EU nationals living in the UK, etc.
View on Reddit #73653449

FilmAndLiterature@reddit

Once upon a time the Houses were equally important. Then in the early 1900s, the Liberal government tried to introduce a land tax to fund social programmes and the Lords blocked it. Lords were appointed by the King, Prime Minister basically said to the King “I’m the Prime Minister who was elected so I should have a say in who becomes a Lord” and he agreed. He then went to the Lords and said “The King says I can appoint Lords, so I’m going to introduce this bill to reduce your powers and you’re going to approve it or else I’m going to appoint enough Lords to ensure you never get a say on anything ever again” so in 1911 the Parliament Act was passed which gave the House of Commons the power to veto the Lords and since their powers have been shrinking ever since. There has been talk of replacing the Lords with an elected Senate or National Assembly, but no one has yet seriously tried introducing it.
View on Reddit #73652842

Suspicious-Limit8115@reddit

British culturally embedded sycophantry
View on Reddit #73651944

Darth_Caesium@reddit

It's mostly down to tradition. So yeah it's mostly useless lol.
View on Reddit #73643958

AtlanticPortal@reddit

Technically it’s the Commons that is free to ignore the amendments, not the Government. Granted, the Commons always control the Government since a majority of the Commons can vote on not having confidence in the Government and force it to resign.
View on Reddit #73655488

Nelo999@reddit

Nothing surprising here. I mean, it is the UK after all, the exact same country that arrests individuals for innocent social media posts.
View on Reddit #73669666

SnooStrawberries177@reddit

That's not even true. The people that got arrested for social media posts were literally trying to incite violence against minorities \*during a period of widespread racist riots\*, including some posting addresses of non-white people to groups that were threatening to "burn them all down, with all the fuckers still inside". That level of incitement is illegal whether you do it on the street or online, it being on twitter doesn't make it suddenly OK. In fact, incitement to violence on that level is against the law even in the USA which has (or at keast, had, until recently) the strongest free speech protections in the world.
View on Reddit #73770954

Dirlrido@reddit

People need to stop taking headlines at face value. The house of lords has no control over what goes into a law.
View on Reddit #73671881

Hrafna55@reddit

I've emailed my MP for all the good it will do..
View on Reddit #73728912

vaynefox@reddit

Man, Watchdogs Legion is becoming a reality slowly but surely....
View on Reddit #73704448

Holiday_Floor_2646@reddit

old men in power
View on Reddit #73695813

SunlightBladee@reddit

Guillotine.
View on Reddit #73684531

_x_oOo_x_@reddit

These are two very different things. Similar systems to both are already in place: mandatory on-device media scanning (iPhone/Android), and age verification for spicy sites. That could easily be extended to VPNs. Enforcement seems to be currently non-existent --- some sites voluntarily implemented age verification, others didn't. 4Chan is still accessible.
View on Reddit #73662580

paradoxbound@reddit

This is on Starmer, long history of being a prig. The good news is that he is likely to be gone by May. He is already hugely unpopular in the country and his own party, at least what left after defections to Reform and the Greens. The Parliamentary Labour Party already have the knives out and they will want to spend the next two years before the general election repairing the damage and trying to get back the support of the electorate.
View on Reddit #73642018

Wheatleytron@reddit

It means that's they aren't going to be able to enforce it
View on Reddit #73639827

feldim2425@reddit

Apparently there is a bit more to the "lawmakers" part as [this other post](https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/1po184r/comment/nuc329l/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) explained. And indeed by looking at the linked document it lists just members of the house of lords that added this amendment and if I understand this system correctly other than striking a discussion this *shouldn't* do much.
View on Reddit #73641633