How do you deal with feeling like your kid is the “poor friend”?

Posted by RedCrabDown@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 380 comments

Please be nice to me, oh Redditors of the Uk. I grew up really poor and as an adult, though I’ve achieved a nice life, situationally and relatively speaking, I still feel quite poor. We live in a nice, safe part of London but we have 3 kids in a two bed flat. It took a lot just to be able to buy this place and felt like a massive achievement. When the kids were little, it didn’t matter so much. But now my eldest is 13 and all of his friends live in big 3 or 4 bed semis with massive kitchen extensions. Probably around £800k-1m type prices. He’s asked if his friend can come round and he admitted he felt a little embarrassed. We do plan to move but need to wait until my middle child’s secondary school place is offered in March. And even then it would only likely be a 3 bed flat. Our flat is also a bit grotty because we have prioritised family holidays over renovations. I just want to cry this morning. I have a really good job and I’m paid well but relatively, because of where we are, it doesn’t go very far. I feel like I’ve let them down and created the same situation I felt as a kid which was feeling like the poor friend. That feeling has never left me and I wanted to do better for my kids. I know I should focus on what I have but I just feel so bad. I went through periods of living on the streets when I was in my teens/ early 20’s so I know I should be proud but I just feel like I’ve let them down.

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ticodon@reddit

You have your own house? And can afford 3 children?? Damn, this guys rich

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AskUK-ModTeam@reddit

A top level comment (one that is not a reply) should be a good faith and genuine attempt to answer the question.

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KitFan2020@reddit

Ah now… I was the well off kid. Big house, both parents worked long hours, nice stuff, lovely holidays … I had friends who were the complete opposite. They didn’t have money but their homes were so happy. Too many kids squashed into the house but they always had ‘someone to play with’. I spent more time there than I did in my own home! Lots of laughter and fun mixed in with sibling arguments, weird food concoctions (!), a mum and dad who were ‘around’. Great times! Loved those days

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arenaross@reddit

I can assure you the last thing you've done is let them down. They are so lucky to have a parent who cares so much. I would try not to overthink this, most people won't care and those that do probably aren't people they'd want to be friends with anyway

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TempleForTheCrazy@reddit

The friends that mind don't matter, and the friends that matter don't mind

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Aggressive_Chuck@reddit

Some people here have forgotten what it's like to be that age, the heightened awareness of status and fitting in. A severe lack of empathy in these comments.

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Impressionsoflakes@reddit

There’s also the reciprocity where kids come to your house and then you go to theirs. It can feel weird when you don’t want to invite people back but don’t say why. If I could go back in time I would just have been super honest and said my house and my family were a total state and I was embarrassed by it. I can guarantee that my friends would have completely understood. It wasn’t like it was a secret I was poor or anything

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Yep.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

OPs kid cares though, that's the issue. He feels embarrassed. Those are his feelings, not his friends.

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Im_being_stalked@reddit

My parents were hoarders and spent all their money. Amongst my friends I was embarrassed and cared for my living conditions, I didn’t invite most friends to my place but the ones closest to me I did and I’m 30 now and they’re still my friends, they understand my struggles growing up and I understand theirs as they were there for me and I for them. It’s embarrassing but this is how you also filter out the people that don’t matter.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

There's no suggestion that OPs kids friends are being judgemental or unkind. OP doesn't seem to know precisely why the kid is embarrassed (but they should definitely ask). This isn't really about filtering out people. It's about dealing with OPs self consciousness and shame about their living conditions, and their child's embarrassment about said living conditions. We really need to stop moralising feelings so much. And it's not even effective at filtering out people, because these are young teens we are talking about. They are pushing boundaries, grappling new concepts and understanding of the world around them. They will make mistakes or misunderstand. An entirely innocent comment can spur or trigger embarrassment. So I fear you've misunderstood the real issue in this post.

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No_Height_2408@reddit

OP does know why. I grew up poor, OP grew up poor, we know how that feels. Everyone else seems to have more than you and it doesn't feel good when you're young and you just want to be like everyone else seems to be.

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Automatic_Acadia_766@reddit

But once his friends come round and he realises they don’t care I’m sure his embarrassment will go.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

It doesn't work like that. Kids and teens have emotions that are valid, even if they are heightened. OPs kid is growing up, and becoming more cognisant of broader social dynamics - wealth disparities in this case. OPs kid is also likely to start wanting more privacy too at this age. It's perfectly _normal_ and natural to have these feelings as a kid. They aren't fleeting or irrational, they are grounded in reality. They are nothing how society works and they are working out their place in society. It's not immoral to have these feelings either. OPs kid isn't being shallow or ungrateful for having them. Our surroundings matter. There are numerous studies linking mental health to our surroundings and personal spaces. Shrugging it off as "well kids don't care about these things. I'm sure these feelings will pass" is hugely, hugely invalidating to a young person. It minimises the feelings and emotions they experience. It teaches them their reality is lesser. It's profoundly damaging to take this approach/mindset. Op can acknowledge to their child that yeh, the flat is small and cramped and not really fit for a family of five. Op can agree that its normal to be self conscious about these type of things. Op can also point out how they've prioritised family holidays over home improvements as a decision they made. Op can tell their child that their home is always open to friends and is a safe space, which is no small thing. Op can flag that while the flat is small and outdated, it's safe and secure. None of the latter involves shaming or invalidating their kids feeling, but allows them to take pride in other aspects of their home life. It gives the child a spade to be honest about their emotions free of judgement.

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tcpukl@reddit

Great advice here. As you say kids have real feelings.

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WhatYouLeaveBehind@reddit

Unfortunately majority of the thread is dismissive of the parents feelings, which we're far too quick to dismiss.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

because OP is an adult. OP has made choices and has the ability to exercise their agency. OP made the decision to have three kids in a two bed flat. OP made the decision to prioritise holidays. Op has posted elsewhere that these were all conscious decisions, from the amount of children they planned to the finances they thought about. So OP is very much the architect of this situation. If OP has negative feelings about those decisions then they are 45 years old and should face up to that. In the post, that hasn't happened. They've just asked for reassurance and confirmation of their choices. They haven't demonstrated much of a willingness to reflect on their emotional state tbh. It's all very much focused on _them_. Instead it's been triggered by their child's own feelings of discomfort which Op can't handle either. The child in question is very much subject to OPs decision making consequences and has zero real agency over their life. The child in question hasn't got the mental ability to fully process emotions without parental guidance, so is the more acute need in this scenario.

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WhatYouLeaveBehind@reddit

Why are you like this?

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Like why? Commenting on Reddit?

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WhatYouLeaveBehind@reddit

Yes you do. It's clear you have a disdain for parents based on your own childhood. Adults feelings are valid too. That's why forums like this exist. You act like they're mutually exclusive concepts. God forbid we help an adult, that's child abuse! You blame this parent for their actions, you think the child being embarrassed is the end of the world, and you seem to believe the parent is a poor parent because they should have done better. Accurate? That seems to be your take from the hundreds of comments you've left across this thread. You act like your lived experience is the only one that matters. Why are you like this.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

I think you're doing a whole lot of projecting there..

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WhatYouLeaveBehind@reddit

I don't think you know what that word means... I notice you've not denied any of it though. Your comments make it quite clear what your views are and how they relate to your own experiences. You had a shitty time, that's unfortunate. But not everyone has shitty parents.

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wildOldcheesecake@reddit

Actually you are. You have no valid response here.

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WhatYouLeaveBehind@reddit

Have you read all their comments? >You have no valid response here. And you do?

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Ok buddy..

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msmoth@reddit

This is perfectly worded.

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vivahate29@reddit

Brilliant response.

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Plugged_in_Baby@reddit

They will care though, even if they mean no harm. “Why is your house so small?” Can sting, even if asked out of genuine curiosity because all the other kids have ever seen are the insides of 800k semi d’s. OP, talk to your kid. You can explain the concept of affordability and rising prices in simple terms (“your friends’ parents moved to this area a long time before we did, and now our flat costs the same as what they paid for their houses”), and if you plan to move, they will know they are only temporarily embarrassed.

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Progressive_Rake@reddit

Kids can be surprisingly understanding and tactful. I grew up middle class but some of my friends were decidedly worse off. I didn’t need to be told why their houses were smaller or less nice or anything else. I knew they didn’t have as much money and I didn’t give a shit and wouldn’t have dreamt of bringing it up. I think most decent kids are the same. They’re not ignorant of the world around them.

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PMOYONCEANDALWAYS@reddit

There was quite a sad story years ago about a girl who grew up in a council flat with a single mother. She wrote an article about it. At least one middle class girl made a bitchy remark in her earshot, saying "I wonder what it is like to grow up in a council house". Not everyone is as kind as you were to your friends from poorer backgrounds.

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puzzledbyadream@reddit

This is the way!

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Yeh, it's a learning moment. OPs kids will feel embarrassed, that's just reality. OP can either dismiss those feelings and their child will internalise it and feel emotionally unsafe/invalidated. Or OP can allow those uncomfortable feelings to exist. Explore them with their child. Why do they feel embarrassed? What's driving those thoughts and feelings? And then there's an opportunity to focus on the positives the child has, which can help balance and add perspective. I deeply, deeply wish I'd experience the latter form of parenting. It's taken years of struggling and therapy to really start to unpack a lot of the harms I experienced growing up, from having my feelings shrugged off or dismissed. It's really pyschologically damaging to do that. And having someone say "your feelings are normal and you're allowed to have them" is extremely freeing and liberating.

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NaturalEnthusiasm368@reddit

Thank you for posting this! It’s so important to be heard as a child and have your feelings validated. As a parent, it’s not always easy to do that but it is important to try

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Oh definitely. Can't be understated.

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WhatYouLeaveBehind@reddit

I've worked with rich kids who are embarrassed because they're not rich enough. Or new money v old money. Kids are kids. They'll feel embarrassed. They'll get over it. When they're older they'll be thankful they had parents who cared about them.

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Savanarola79@reddit

Exactly. I was going to suggest this. Some comments are saying the child's feelings are always valid, but would it be valid if a child was embarrassed because their swimming pool wasn't as big as their friend's? Or that their parents didn't own a stable full of horses? At what point does it become silly rather than completely valid. Children's feelings shouldn't be dismissed - but part of growing up is learning to cope with the fact that circumstances are not always what we wish they would be. Gratitude for what we *do* have is also a very very very important life skill to learn. Ultimately - safety and love and attention are the most important things they need ❤️

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WhatYouLeaveBehind@reddit

I also think the parents feelings shouldn't be dismissed either, which is absolutely huge throughout this thread. You'd think based on the comments that the parent should be sent to prison for child abuse. Which is likely how they feel coming away from this thread. It's sad really so see a parent doing their very best with so much love and care, and seeing people tell them it's not good enough because their child is embarrassed about how poor they are. Tragic really.

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Savanarola79@reddit

Agreed. Yeah I was surprised by some of the comments, although to be honest the majority are supportive of OP. The 'um ackshually' ones are the slightly strange outliers. My father was unemployed when I was born, but what he did was - he went out and got a job! Circumstances can improve later on. And if you keep putting off having children to reach an ideal financial situation first ' you may sadly encounter fertility problems or birth defects, the longer you wait. When you are younger you have more energy for parenting and work. It's a balance between circumstance and age. But love is hopefully constant. ❤️

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WhatYouLeaveBehind@reddit

Indeed. I was poor as a child. I also had parents who weren't they great. Given the choice, I'd have good parents over more money. I was often embarrassed and not having the best and nicest things. It's not uncommon for kids to be bullied over not having the latest fads, the best trainers, etc. But as an adult you realise they had the shit end of the stick. It's a shame to see some of the comments, but it sounds like OP & partner genuinely care about their kids.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

The prevalence of this thinking and this type of thinking is depressing. Please, I beg you. Stop just shrugging off childrens feelings. "It's no big deal they'll get over it". Shame and guilt are bug emotions. They are difficult emotions to sit with. They are valid emotions, and reasonable to have. Children, all children, deserve to have support processing those. And deserve respect and acknowledgement. Not just "you'll get over it". That's callous, dismissive and disrespectful. **Please do not treat children in your care this way** I'm sure many kids do "get over it". But what does that mean exactly? Do they learn to dismiss their feelings, or ignore them because they are being taught they don't matter? And is this healthy? I'd say, a resolute **no**.

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WhatYouLeaveBehind@reddit

Who the fuck do you think you are?

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Likewise.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

Exactly. And I think parents should hold themselves accountable for having children in such conditions that make their kids feel embarrassed. Especially if they've experienced poverty themselves, why do they think it's ok to bring children into a life of poverty? If you can't afford to properly house 3 children, don't have 3 children. I can't afford even a 2 bedroom flat, so I have 0 children.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

I asked OP this because I was genuinely curious, but they haven't responded. I'm similar. Grew up in financially precarious and an emotionally volatile household. I've been adamant I wouldn't bring a child into the same conditions. Kids were out of the question until I was in a happy and well regulated relationship, and I wanted to be married. I was also adamant I'd build up a career, savings and own my home. Only when I had all those things did I consider having a baby. It was a risky decision because I couldn't accumulate those things until I was in my thirties and I have PCOS, so older ager compounds my fertility struggles. But I felt that it was too selfish to consider the alternative. I didn't start trying for a baby until I owned a modest three bed semi. I now own a 3 bed detached in London. Having three kids would be out of the question for me because I don't think I could comfortable afford them as well as financial buffers to ensure they could thrive as well as just get by. I'll feel lucky if I can have one and at most, I'll have two. So I am genuinely interested in OPs decision to have three children in a two bed flat.

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BeatificBanana@reddit

Why is everyone assuming that OP planned to have 3 kids? Like obviously that may be true, but also accidental pregnancies happen. No matter what birth control you use, it can fail, and not everyone would be able to consider terminating their pregnancy even if they fully support others' right to choose it. Sometimes you just have to make the best of your situation. And personally I do not consider owning a 2-bed flat in a nice part of London and going on family holidays to be some sort of terrible, embarrassing life that they shouldn't have brought kids into. Some of these commenters are speaking like they've never seen actual poverty before

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Savanarola79@reddit

It's peak Reddit in some of these comments

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arenaross@reddit

So, so reddit.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Because most people of OPs demographic have had sexual education in school for free, have access to the internet with an abundance of resources on family planning, and free access to contraception via the NHS. About 10 years ago (the timeframe OP had their younger kids) only ~16% of pregnancies in the UK were wholly unplanned. So it's a fair assumption that OP either planned these kids, was ambivalent or they were wholly unplanned and thus, arguably, extremely irresponsible . I agree, everyone should make the best of the situation they are in. But children are a whole other kettle of fish because you're making a decision on behalf of someone else. OP is a teen who is presumably sharing a small space with 4 others and sharing a small bedroom. That isn't a great space to be in, and it's a decision made for that child by their parents family/financial decisions. Maybe you don't think it's bad, but OP clearly has reservations about it and OPs kid feels embarrassed about his living situation which are more relevant to the situation than your feelings on it.

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BeatificBanana@reddit

>Because most people of OPs demographic have had sexual education in school for free, have access to the internet with an abundance of resources on family planning, and free access to contraception via the NHS. I'm sorry do you think that if you have sexual education, access to the Internet and free contraception that means you're immune to accidental pregnancy? You do realise EVERY method of contraception, including vasectomy, can fail even if used perfectly?

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

That and the fact OP has posted previously about "carefully planning' each pregnancy taking their finances into account. So OP was fully conscious of their financial and housing situation but proceeded to have a third child in a two bed flat. OPs kids are between 13-8 and in two years time will be living in What's officially considerate overcrowded conditions. Two of OPs kids are opposite genders, and shouldn't be sharing a bedroom. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/s/xhdP5yNjl9

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Yeh sure, but that's exceptionally rare, so it makes more sense to assume OP planned their pregnancies.

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iconic117@reddit

By this measure every young millennial or gen z will be immoral for having kids. No one under 30 will be able to afford a three bed semi...

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Yes the birth rate is rapidly declining, likely for this reason. It's pretty feasible to raise one, maybe even two kids in a two bed flat. Three is a lot, especially as they hit their teens. So most millennials or gen zers will.likely only have 1 or 2 kids for that exact reason.

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Savanarola79@reddit

The poor have always been shamed throughout history for having too many children.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

Well if someone can't see for themselves that it's wrong to subject their children to difficult living conditions, others should be able to point that out to them without being accused of 'shaming'.

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Savanarola79@reddit

And what use does it do to point this out, once the children are already with us? Shutting the gate after the horse has bolted, springs to mind. 🐎

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

It's an important conversation to have because clearly the majority of people still think that a parent's *want* to have a child trumps that child's *needs*. Somehow it's ok to criticise people for getting pets they can't afford, but not for birthing children they can't afford. Why?

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Savanarola79@reddit

Well I don't think it's right to criticise people for having pets they can't afford either 🤷‍♂️

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

Honestly, it's very kind to have a "live and let live" attitude, but when someone's actions affect other living beings, whether animals or children, theirs or someone else's, then I don't think they should be above criticism.

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Savanarola79@reddit

Fair. But the critics may also be subject to criticism in turn.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

Criticism is fine. What's not fine is bringing an innocent soul into this world to suffer (emotionally, mentally, physically, financially etc) when that can be easily avoided. "Regarding procreation, the argument follows that coming into existence generates both good and bad experiences, pain and pleasure, whereas not coming into existence entails neither pain nor pleasure. The absence of pain is good, the absence of pleasure is not bad. Therefore, the ethical choice is weighed in favor of non-procreation."

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Savanarola79@reddit

Everyone suffers, no parent or childhood is perfect.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

My children are not suffering. You know why? Because I'm not creating them, since I can't afford them.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

👏🏼

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Savanarola79@reddit

Circular reasoning.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

As long as it prevents suffering, I'm fine with that.

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Savanarola79@reddit

I'd argue a life of relative poverty (in the UK or similar society) is far far superior to nonexistence

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Savanarola79@reddit

But who assesses what counts as the right level of income to have a child? Who makes that decision? Is it to be able to afford Disneyland, or at a minimum, Butlins?

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

A bedroom of his own, in this case. Is that too much too ask for?

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Savanarola79@reddit

So would you legislate that parents who have more children than bedrooms have their child placed into care? I'm just wondering what the practical application would be for irresponsible breeding.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

I'm just saying we need to normalise thinking critically about whether or not we can afford to have kids. And if we can't afford them, to chose not to have them. For the hypothetical kids' sake and not as a punishment for being poor.

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Savanarola79@reddit

So, ultimately it's just finger wagging then. If poorer people stop having g children we will end up with a geriatric society. Having to share a bedroom is not exactly a stygian level of discomfort.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

So you want to use poorer people's children and their suffering to prop up society for the richer people's benefit? How kind.

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Savanarola79@reddit

I thought this may be the response! My reply is: Do you want to live in a society where the majority are elderly? Poorer workers *already* prop up the rich, although I previously made no mention of economics, merely the composition of society.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

What I want is to not use children (or animals) as toold. But it's not about what I want. It's about what's best for the children who don't exist yet. And imo non-existence is preferable to a shitty existence.

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Savanarola79@reddit

Again, having to share a bedroom is hardly a shitty existence, especially if you have loving parents.

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Savanarola79@reddit

What about parents who can afford kids at point of birth, but become poorer later? Are they exempt from the criticism.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

That's a different situation, as long as they thoughfully planned the kids, considering all the information they had available up to that point. We can't predict the future but we can do financial projections :)

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Savanarola79@reddit

Some people may have children hoping they will earn more later on. The longer you leave it, the greater the risk of low fertility, birth defects or just being knackered all the time.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Have they? I'd suggest that poverty has been framed as a moral issue throughout history, and since having lots of children could swing a working class family into poverty, therin lies the link. You're right though, poverty shouldn't be framed as a moral issue because it isn't. But equally family planning should be framed as an empowering choice.

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Individual-Meeting@reddit

I actually don't agree with this... They both work, they have somewhere to live, pay for the children, they go away on holiday so she's hardly this irresponsible scrounger.... You can't just say only the wealthy can have children that's so wrong! Teenagers feel mortified about everything, if it's not being the poor friend or not having the latest this or that, then maybe it'd be embarrassment about having parents who waited until they had enough and are therefore "old," or parents who are a bit uncool or awkward or strict or set their kids up to be bullied due to their ways or lack of preparing them for the social world or whatever... Not saying this all doesn't feel awful at the time, of course it does it feels major at that age but there are more important things. Really the most important thing beyond not imposing anything on them that's gonna put a target for bullying on their back, is a secure and loving home... That's what they'll take with them through life and give them the best chances of security and happiness in life.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

What do you disagree with exactly? I'd argue emotionally intelligent parents are the most important thing a child can have beyond their immediate vital needs.

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Savanarola79@reddit

While it is not advisable or ideal.for mixed sex siblings over 10 to share a bedroom... there is no age at which it’s unlawful for siblings to share a bedroom, including siblings of opposite sexes.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

I didn't suggest it was a criminal offence. I mentioned legal thresholds. I was referencing Section 325 of the Housing Act 1985 (sometimes referred to as the “room standard”). It says that a household may be considered statutorily overcrowded if children of the opposite sex over the age of 10 have to share a room. This doesn’t make sharing a bedroom a crime. But it does flag how on an official level, this isn't seen as comfortable or ideal living conditions for children.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

Sounds like you've done really well for yourself, both financially and emotionally, to overcome your childhood circumstances. I'm still bitter about how and where I was raised, the choices my parents made, so I have less patience for people like OP and honestly I'm annoyed at how rare your take is on this thread. But huge credit to you for the life you've created for yourself and your future child. You will be an amazing parent.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Thank you that means a lot. I've achieved a lot but I am deeply proud about how much emotional intelligence I've developed. It's helped me so much in life and a huge contrast to what my parents modelled for me. It's the type of thing that doesn't get applauded much, but I have a lot of pride in it. I'm very similar. I try my best not to judge too much but I totally get where you're coming from. It hurts more as someone experiencing infertility, when I see parents making dubious choices IMO. It's a whole new level of anger.

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Savanarola79@reddit

But you're being rather judgmental here.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Am I? I don't think it's reasonable or feasible to remove any sort of judgement. And I asked about OPs position out of genuine, good faith and curiosity to understand their perspective. I try to be cognisant of when I'm being judgemental and why. I frequently challenge my own assumptions and thought processes, and when I make judgements I try to rely on facts and not just emotional, reactive feelings. However I have been victim to a childhood of poverty. It's traumatic and difficult and unfair. So I reserve the right to judge others, just a little.

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Savanarola79@reddit

Ultimately however OP and their children are living in the actual situation that they are in, whether or not the circumstances that got them there were irresponsible. And they have to navigate that situation. Some people will never be able to afford 3 bedroom detached houses, (or even buy a home at all) but may still want children.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

You don't have to have a three bedroom detached house to have a child though. You can have a one child. Maybe even stretch to two in a two bed flat. Personally if I couldn't afford a home, there's no way in hell I'd be bringing a child into the world. Having been subject to a childhood without a stable home.

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Savanarola79@reddit

As an only child with several only child friends I'd say on balance having a sibling is preferable. Being a renter does not necessarily mean instability. I've rented the same home for ten years. The following article gives quite a good perspective on the issue, and is worth a read: https://www.unitedwaygt.org/life/im-poor-and-im-a-great-mom-come-at-me/

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Someone's anecdetoal blog isn't particularly compelling tbh. A lot of people should never have had kids for various reasons but will insist they are good parents. I'd be more interested in reading a blog from the many people who grew up in instability and poverty... I moved every two years as a child. No family home, no stability. No preserved memories. It wasn't until I was in my 30s that I had the same bedroom for more than 4 years. On average in the UK, renters move every 4 years so statically you're a huge outlier and every 4 years isn't especially stable, to say nothing of the long term economic penalties of prolonged renting. I get that it's unfair, but let's not pretend kids just need sunshine and water to thrive and can thrive anywhere.

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Savanarola79@reddit

Well the UK renting sector needs massive reform so that it can provide stability for oeople on lower incomes. We need much more social and council housing. We need to define poverty. OP is not poor. And relative poverty (I'm not talking about living on the street ) does not necessarily lead to emotional instability If poorer people stop having children then society just ends up with majority elderly people. And that will cause a lot of emotional problems and instability in society as a whole. Ultimately it is a human right to have children, unless you are living in an authoritarian state.

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BeatificBanana@reddit

Jesus christ. What the fuck is this comment? Living in a 2 bed flat (that you own), in a nice safe part of London, and being able to afford family holidays, is *not* "a life of poverty". You must be extremely privileged to think it is.

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BrushSuccessful5032@reddit

Five people in two bedrooms isn’t ideal. Especially if the kids are different genders (OP doesn’t say genders or ages except a boy hitting puberty) that’s a real issue.

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BeatificBanana@reddit

I did not say it was ideal. I said it wasn't a life of poverty

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Savanarola79@reddit

👏

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Poverty is relative. And you're missing the most important reality that OPs kid feels embarrassed. So regardless of what you, or I, or anyone else feels about what poverty is or is not - the living situation is viewed negatively by OPs child.

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BeatificBanana@reddit

Yeah, I had friends who were embarrassed of their parents because their parents had waited longer til they had more money and a bigger house before having a kid, and so they were older, and the kids found it embarrassing to have people round and see that they had "old parents". Teenagers will always be embarrassed about something. It doesn't matter in the long run, they'll learn to stop caring about being judged. What matters is that they are safe and loved and cared for and have a happy family.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Sure, but living in cramped overcrowded flat in your teens is a pretty valid thing to be embarrassed and feel insecure about. It's pretty objectively bad. Personally I've never known anyone to be embarrassed of having older parents, parents are embarrassing across the board.

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KittenFunk@reddit

They can always sell and move to an outer borough. Nice and safe doesn't have to mean central and bougie.

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KittenFunk@reddit

Or move to a still safe, but less expensive part of town. Many outer boroughs are very safe and have great schools. I have acquaintances who prioritise fancy holidays and living in expensive neighbourhoods (to keep up with more affluent friends) where they can only afford a small flat. I don't think it's fair on the children having to share a tiny bedroom so their parents can feel bougie walking to Bayley & Sage to do the weekly shop. After you have children you should consider their welfare above your wishes. Not saying at all this is OP's situation, but personally I would do up my home before going on holidays.

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but_this_one_is_not@reddit

> After you have children you should consider their welfare above your wishes. Always. I completely agree with you.

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irish_horse_thief@reddit

You sound like a death at a birthday party

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TimeForHumanUK@reddit

Truth.

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SmokeStatus1593@reddit

Be real, these are teenagers. It’s a big deal for them and they do care and so will their friends.

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Impressionsoflakes@reddit

I kinda feel the same for the same reasons. The difference is that the families with the million-pound houses likely started someway ahead of you jn the game of life. I.e rolling a 1 and immediately getting £200 and a bunch of chance and community chest cards isn’t the huge achievement our society likes to tell people it is. You’ve created a secure, financially stable home full of great memories like holidays already - and you’ve done it yourself. That’ll put your kids further ahead than you were when they have to start out.

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isaidscience@reddit

Why don't you move out of London to somewhere different. For example, if you move to the US where your 500k flat will buy you a 4,000 sqft house with a yard and two car garage.

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baddymcbadface@reddit

You've got 3 kids, you're a home owner in London and you can afford to take them on holidays? I'm not sure what to say to that other than well f*cking done!

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Separate_Quality1016@reddit

Right? This post is kind of wild to me. A london homeowner is not poor, he admittedly has a good job and clearly provides well for his children. This is not to invalidate the feelings the kid and the dad have, everything is relative after all, and they seem to be mingling with some even more well off people that causes that. From an objective perspective though, sounds like OP is living well above the standards of a lot of people in this country. Poverty this is not.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

OP doesn't go into detail, but it's likely that their two bed flat fits the criteria for overcrowding as defined in law and most academic circles. For reference, a certain square footage is deemed necessary per adult and per child. For a five person family, two bed flats usually don't meet this threshold. OPs eldest is 13, we don't know about the ages of the other kids but it's probably Safe to assume they are fairly evenly spaced out age wise. When children hit 10, the law recognises that they need more space and shouldn't be sharing a bedroom with siblings of an opposite gender. Poverty is fairly relatively, even in Uk law. But it's clear OP will soon have an overcrowding issue (if not already). Overcrowding is linked to risks and poorer outcomes for children, even if it's not strictly a "poor" family, though they are linked.

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Separate_Quality1016@reddit

>OP doesn't go into detail So this invalidates the entire rest of your comment, because you are now speaking about a situation that you have hypothesised. We do know that OP is a homeowner in London, which no matter how you look at it is a decently affluent position to be in. I don't know what the motivation was here to take the opposing stance to argue with me on hypothethicals that you have inferred. Some people cannot afford to eat dinner. Some people cannot afford to pay the criminally expensive rents set by unregulated landlords. All my comment said was that while acknowledging the very real and valid feelings of the family, everything IS relative and OP seems to be doing well given how many families truly are not. This was not to shame, but to offer a reframing of the situation into one where OP could be proud of the things he has achieved instead of frantic over the things he has not.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

OP has posted elsewhere and I mentioned in my other comments. OP has explicitly stated that she has three kids aged between 9-13 of opposite genders which means that OP is in overcrowded housing. Which is linked to poor outcomes for children. I've already said that poverty is relative, so I'm not sure why you've honed in on this. I've agreed. But this remains an issue of overcrowding regardless of poverty levels.

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Separate_Quality1016@reddit

This is getting circular. It is a wildly privileged position to stand around and bring up overcrowding as as response to what I said about their good position in life. Even if they are overcrowded, which lets say they are I cannot be bothered to fact check OPs other comments now, it still does not change my point. Instead of feeling he does not do enough, OP could focus on the good life he has provided for his family so far. Not really an outrageous point this one and it is frankly just bizarre you keep feeling the need to argue back against it.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

It's not circular, the point is flying over your head. OP is raising kids in an overcrowded flat. End of. That's my point. The poverty aspect is largely irrelevant, youre fixating on it because youyr conflating it with overcrowding. While they often overlap they are ultimately, distinct.

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Separate_Quality1016@reddit

It is not irrelevant when that is OPs complaint. That he is poor. Your comment is irrelevant, you are bringing up overcrowding when it isn't the core of the issue. And importantly, OP has the power to forgoe his london postcode and provide a better life for his family. I have lied by continuing to engage with you. Pesky little notifications bringing me back. There is a "disable notifications" option for individual threads, which I will use instead of simply blocking and obviously delusional person, to allow you to read without the onus of having to read anymore from you.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

OP is a she for one. She feels poor and failing because she made pretty poor choices. Overcrowding is the issue. Because the kid in question is complaining about his living situation and OP explains herself that the small size and outdated flat is an issue. By all means, ignore me. But when you come at me with blatantly incorrect information or a profound misunderstanding then I'll respond accordingly.

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Savanarola79@reddit

There is no age at which it’s unlawful for siblings to share a bedroom, including siblings of opposite sexes.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Nothing in my comment suggested it was unlawful that they share. I was referencing the legal statues which stipulate overcrowding metrics. By legal standards, kids of the opposite gender (which applies to OPs children) over the age of 10 (also applicable), shouldn't be sharing a bedroom. If they are, it's a contributing factor in assessing whether they are living in overcrowded accommodation. See my other comment.

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No_Height_2408@reddit

I don't really think there is an answer anyone can give you. It won't kill them to feel that way, it's part of life. Rich people can also not feel rich enough around richer people. I grew up poor and now live in a 4 bed house but we rent and look a lot richer than we are. I would kill to own my own place, you've done amazingly.

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Creepy_Move2567@reddit

I remember as a kid going to my friends 'cozy' houses. I didn't realise that we were the well off ones and it didn't really matter to me. I liked my friends places and their parents were warm and loving so that's all that really mattered to me.

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rddtuser3@reddit

Hey OP thanks for sharing. By all means have a cry! But once you are done, start putting together a plan where you and your family have more living space in the future. Because as your kids get older not having more living space could be become a much bigger problem.

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welshdragoninlondon@reddit

Kids don't care about these things as much as adults do. Some of my friends had swimming pools when I was a kid and huge houses. We just had quite a small house. I never even thought about it as a kid, it was just this is where we live.

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Norman_debris@reddit

Same. And in fact we all spent most of the time in my small house because my parents were the most permissive and accommodating. The one with the biggest house and a massive garden with an enormous trampoline had an awful stepmother who made us avoid going there.

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malmikea@reddit

I wanted to comment something like this. Every teenager appreciates having somewhere to hang out regardless so long as they’re allowed to have a good time. I grew up in a spacious home, had my own room which was rare for my friendship group. But I only was allowed guest every two years or so. The fact that I was welcome and my friend’s houses, who had games consoles and generally a nice welcoming vibe was so important to me. I think the only fix for OP is to have people around as much as possible imho

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ffs_not_this_again@reddit

I'm not trying to be a dick but teenagers do. Little kids don't care but at 13 you can unfortunately expect the possibility that other teenagers will take the piss out of having old, cheap, or unfashionable things like phones and clothes, or living in a grotty or poor seeming home. OP's son has admitted he's embarrassed so he is at least aware that his home might be thought of as less nice by his friends. And yes you can say "oh well they're not really his friends if blah blah" but that doesn't actually help the kid right now if these are the friends he has. Sorry for the quite negative comment but I think this kind of attitude is helpful. No, the other teenagers shouldn't judge him for being poorer. No, he shouldn't feel nad about it. But the reality is that they might and he has already admitted that he does. His feelings are valid.

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Savanarola79@reddit

So what's the answer then

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claireauriga@reddit

You teach your own child that while the financial differences do exist, they do not reflect on your value as a person. It's natural and normal to notice a difference and feel self-conscious about it, and the next step is to give it appropriate importance in your life. What really matters about your home? What you do in it. Is it a space where you feel you can be yourself? Is it a space where your friends can have fun and feel welcomed? The size aspect may have a practical impact here, but what are some other ways they as a family can make it a pleasant place to be? If the size impact really is the deciding factor right now, what are some other ways the kid can contribute to their friends being welcome in their company?

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Savanarola79@reddit

I agree but I wonder what ffs thinks...

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

I agree with you. Feelings of embarrassment and shame as a teen are normal. They should be talked about and validated, not shrugged off as "noone else cares". That's not the point. It doesn't matter if people actually care or not. OPs kid cares, and that's what OP needs to address. Shrugging it off is extremely emotionally invalidating and thus, harmful.

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lordnigz@reddit

Sometimes an awareness of that is character building or at least an awareness of the unfairness of wealth discrepancies. Better than having an entitled child wanting for nothing imo. Regardless of the material wealth you have it's about being grateful and kind. I'm almost typing this out to convince myself though as it's often forgotten!

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welshdragoninlondon@reddit

Yes, I was describing my experience as a kid. But what is OP going to do. There will always be people who have more and better things. Even if got a new house. They may make friends with people who have a lot better house, car, better holidays etc. All can do is teach kids to not worry about it and that true friends won't care.

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DullSense8359@reddit

Literally. We used to go to a different friend’s house every week. Not even thinking about who had the nicest house or nicest kitchen utilities cause we were fucking kids man. Adults care wayyyy more than kids do about stuff like this.

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Human_Section_4185@reddit

Your wealth is not your house, its size or the salary you get. Your wealth is your 3 children, your family and the memories you create with them. Your love and TIME is all they need to feel strong and confident enough to go through life successfully and happily. If you feel this way and you show it to your children, then you will pass it on to them and they will feel sad and will pass it on to their kids as well. If they understand that their family is priceless and that they are truly wealthy for having parents who spend time with them and love them, they will be able to reproduce this and be content and happy, and so will their children. Do not be deceived by what is material. While it helps, it is not happiness and it is not your family.

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Compromisee@reddit

Money's a funny thing I grew up in poor neighbourhoods. My Mum had me and my sister very early on in her teens and so had no money or education because of it. She eventually met my Stepdad who helped to push her on. They worked their asses off for promotions and good money until eventually they got a really nice house - I was a little too old to appreciate it by then. All through my Teens and 20s I hated that my Mum had sacrificed quality time with me to work. When I had my kids I swore I would never do the same. Swore I would spend more time with them and give them good lives, with nice houses and nice holidays etc. It was only recently that I realised I work so much now that I've essentially become my Mum. I only wanted to work hard and give them a nice life but I didn't realise how much having nice things sacrifices time. You haven't let anyone down - just keep doing what you're doing and they'll see you when they're older.

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HighlightAmbitious84@reddit

I’d distract the flat by making the best dinner or best takeaway! Make the flat immaculate and so it’s like the place to be! Distract distract distract I don’t recall going to anyone’s manky house growing up except one friend who lived in a damp council estate where her mum sat in darkness chan smoking with nasty frozen food from farm foods. Even still, we continued chilling at hers and it’s all good. I highly doubt your house will be looking like that!

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DullSense8359@reddit

I promise you. Real friends would not care less where he lives. It wouldn’t even cross their minds.

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N-F-F-C@reddit

They are teenagers.

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DullSense8359@reddit

So? Teenagers don’t automatically become snobby devils.

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N-F-F-C@reddit

Teenagers aren’t known for their empathy and critical thinking skills

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astronautas@reddit

They actually can be, if you spend some time with them.

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can_see_england@reddit

Old enough to understand that some people have more than others, then. Teenagers are likely going to be much nicer than say, an 8 year old who will say the first thing that comes into their head

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N-F-F-C@reddit

I see you likely had a decent childhood

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can_see_england@reddit

I work with kids.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

A lot of teens are awful. Not because of their own moral failings but because they are old enough to be awful but too young to fully comprehend. A lot of kids act out, or are cruel because of unhappy home livesm whether that be dysfunction, abuse, addiction, emotional dysregulation, poverty. None of these are rare. I was a poor kid from an abusive household and I was not a pleasant or kind teen. I didn't understand why or how I could be unpleasant. But I had a lot of anger and unhappiness and grief and sadness that acted out in ways I'm not proud of. This is all by the by. It's largely irrelevant what the kids friends are saying, because it is OPs child who has these feelings (not their friends). OP isn't likely to be too concerned about what other people are saying, but they are concerned (and rightfully so) about how their own child feels.

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heliskinki@reddit

Some teenagers aren’t cunts. We’re not rich by any means, but we own a decent 3 bed semi. Some of my daughter’s mates are working class / from poorer backgrounds and she treats them with the same kindness and respect that they give her. 9/10 If a kid is a cunt, it’s because they’ve been brought up by cunts.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

The issue isn't OPs child's friends caring. (I agree. They won't care). The issue is that OPs child cares. That's harder to navigate. I was a kid who was ashamed of my family home. It was grotty. Often messy and dirty. I had a very unhappy home life. It massively shaped my life, I didn't get to be a normal teen. I didn't feel I could have friends round, I felt embarrassed if they ever came around to mine. I didn't want a boyfriend because I didn't want to have to risk opening up my crappy home life. It meant that I slowly isolated myself and cut myself off from others. Feeling that sort of deep shame is awful, and extremely hard to overcome. OP is right to want to address it, but there's no easy quick answer to this.

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BeatificBanana@reddit

I do think there's a very big difference between your and OP's situation. Their flat might not be newly decorated but that doesn't mean it's messy and dirty like your childhood home was. And you refer to yourself as having a "crappy home life" whereas OP seems like they genuinely love and care for their kids. Two completely different situations. I grew up in a tiny ex-council house in the cheapest part of town, my house was always in some state of shabbiness (old faded carpets, wallpaper peeling, doors that didn't shut properly because the wood had warped over the years) as my parents didn't have enough money or time to decorate/renovate - but the house was always *clean* and my parents were loving, happy and kind to both me and any friends I would have round. Some of my friends lived in huge, incredibly posh houses and yet they all loved coming round my house because we would have so much fun playing, and they loved my parents. Nobody noticed (or if they did notice, they didn't care) that the house was small and shabby. It literally didn't matter to any of us

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

I wasn't saying my childhood home was the same. You've missed the point entirely. My feelings of shame and embarrassment are what's pertinent. Likewise the feelings OPs kid has are valid. It's not about comparing homes.

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MonsieurGump@reddit

Cancel this year’s holiday and decorate the flat?

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DancingWilliams@reddit

At school I had some friends who were a lot richer / posher than me. But they came to my house and liked it. Their own parents were never home, didn't engage with them much, lived in sterile "perfect" homes. My home was just normal ... homely. If these other kids like your kid, they are already not judging. Space might be a bit tight, but you sound lovely, and are doing fine in life. Those in the £1m houses may be juggling multiple debts and living a rubbish life, who can tell? If you can be relaxed about it you kid will start to relax about it too.

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No-Deer-79898@reddit

I grew up in house with 10 siblings. I just never invited my friends to my place, I went to theirs. It’s fine and I never held it against my parents because they did their best. I never went hungry and wore clean clothes etc. I never felt poor either. Life isn’t postcard perfect. Your kid will be fine.

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rthahshsdh@reddit

you have not let them down man. you should be proud of who you are and proud of your family. it's the bollocks society we live in that values all the wrong things

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Sendhimoffdiabolical@reddit

It's a sad indictment on our society that people give a fuck about this kind of thing.

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OkToe9494@reddit

5 people in a 2 bed flat isnt really a society thing its not practical, a 13 year old who has little privacy, where would the friends go if they came over to visit. OP had said they have prioritised the luxury of holidays over the necessity of a suitable living space.

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Savanarola79@reddit

Convert the living room to a multi use space for the parents to sleep in. If at least two of the kids are the same sex, you've then got a reasonable compromisewl with 2 bedrooms. An alternative is to look for somewhere bigger in a cheaper area. Although the kids may not be too happy about leaving their home either! And commuting costs etc

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

People have been caring about their domestic settings and comfort for at least 400k years. From when early humans first started forming sleeping spaces, hearths and took storage. It's instrincly human to care about our domestic space, and transcends across cultural and geographic boundaries. So it's not a sad endictment that OPs kids feels self conscious because it's part of his development. Is it sad people attach so much status and place hierachal social value on domestic settings? Sure. But it's not even clear that's what's happening here either. We don't know the full reason for OPs child's embarrassment. Presumably he's sharing a small space with two other siblings, with little room for privacy or self expression, in a society that values both those things very highly. A little judgement can be useful, but I don't think there's any need or usefulness in seeing this scenario as some sort of moral failing. Because it isn't.

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Kapika96@reddit

Sounds like you're worrying way too much about it, it's not a big deal. When I was a kid how big other kid's houses were wasn't something that even crossed the mind. And if your kids are going to school talking about the holidays you've taken them on, I doubt anybody's going to be thinking of them as the poor kids!

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Reallyboringname2@reddit

Excuse me. You have achieved incredible amounts and should be very proud. It’s understandable that your son might feel a little embarrassed but let him know it’s a great way to filter out real friends from fake a**holes. Explain how tough you had it and the solid foundation, and generational wealth, you’re building to make it easier for them than it was for you and you would be allowed to cry. Tears of joy, of course! I’m a council estate kid who has nothing to inherit and finally became a first time buyer in my 40s. My son went to Private School and all his classmates were much better off than us but none of them, or their parents, were better than us. We are all people x

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Gullible_Wind_3777@reddit

His real friends wouldn’t care where he lives. And from the sounds of things, neither should you. You’ve done more than enough and so what if you don’t have the best looking home?! It’s still a loving comfortable home!! 💕 not many have that. 💋

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simmyawardwinner@reddit

some of the best nights of my life as a kid round friends houses were in garages covered in cobwebs or in sheds covered in dust. kids care about the friendship, not the qiuality of the house!

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Oster-P@reddit

This for sure. I was better off than some of my friends as a kid, but I still loved going to visit them at their houses and it didn't even cross my mind at the time that their house wasn't as nice as mine, I was just excited to be hanging out with my friend. Their parents were always friendly and kind to me and that's what I remembered, not what the house looked like. Just make them some nice snacks and let them hang out and have a laugh in their own space.

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ArtDifferent448@reddit

Yeah I totally agree. If they friends say ANYTHING about the house being small then they are 100% not his friends

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simmyawardwinner@reddit

take a breath yure doing wonderful ❤️ 💕 i remember my mom would be so embaressed when my posh friends wanted to come over, and it made me make up a lie to them and say i didnt want to have a sleepover, they ended up thinking i didnt like them anymore and i lost some amazing friends. it really hurt me. my mom constantly thought others were better than us and they werent. we lived in a 3bed semi in a leafy surrey suburb btw, now over £850k. and she still made me feel lower than my friends. my advice to u is dont let ur kid see that. realise your doing amazing, compared to the rest of the country. dont compare urself to ur richer friends! load of my friends live in million+ pound houses and guess what, they got inheritance and marrried rich etc. i have a 1 bed flat and worked my ass off wiht no help or money handouts. i couldnt feel prouder when people come here. ive decorated it to a gorgeous standard, the size does not matter, its the pride i take in it. if your struggling to keep your house feeling somewhere your proud of, and ur comparing urself to others and feeling like uv let little bern down, its a sign u need to get some help❤️ talk to a counsillor. get things off your chest. but pls dont let him realise the way u feel, cos it reli didnt help me as a kid to know my mom thought everyone was better than us❤️

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RevolutionaryLaw393@reddit

I was the ‘poor’ one in my friend group growing up. My bedroom was a shoebox, could barely fit a single bed and wardrobe in, yet I had friends round most nights. My friends didn’t care that I had a tiny room as we made it fun. If I had multiple friends over my mum would let us camp out in the living room and for a bunch of teenage girls was really exciting. You’ve honestly got nothing to worry about if your son’s friends are nice. Most kids dgaf where they are x

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Hard_Dave@reddit

3 kids in London is gonna make you feel poor! I have 3 kids in Leicestershire and life ain't cheap even here.

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levidathan@reddit

Speaking as the poor friend. I lived in a two bedroom council house…. Was the only kid in the class that didn’t get invited to a girls pool party, at her house, (she had two built in swimming pools.) Once I reached 10- teenage years no one cared or commented. They all wanted to come to mine because my parents had time for us and there was less rules about playing and messing about (because let’s be honest, what’s the damage really going to cost…) Truth is, I don’t think kids really care or notice money or status. I never felt “better” at friends houses who had pools and play rooms and a rollercoaster in their garden, it’s the people that matter and their parents were shit.

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Winter_Tell6019@reddit

Be friendly to visitors. Ask your kids what you can all do to make home more welcoming to friends. Make sure the loo is reasonably clean. Have some snacks available. Give them some privacy (use the kitchen whilst they are in the living room?). Prioritise outdoor play dates when the weather allows. The most important thing is that your kids feel secure, loved and not worried about their parents.

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Cha_r_ley@reddit

OP, I often felt like the “poor friend” growing up. We weren’t exactly impoverished, but when I went to secondary school, I suddenly realised that a lot of people in my class came from much wealthier backgrounds than I did. They’d never been on a caravan holiday. Their houses had separate utility rooms, dining rooms, extra living rooms, massive gardens with grass. They always had the most expensive trainers, and they didn’t have to wait till Christmas to get them. Even then though, I recognised things that I had that they didn’t. My mum had frank conversations with me about sexual health, alcohol and drugs. She made sure I was using contraception as soon as I was sexually active, and never made me feel shamed for it. She had taught me to respect property, and look after my belongings. She set restrictions to stop me from running wild, but also trusted me to use my judgement in other scenarios. I couldn’t wait to get a job and pay my own way. A lot of my more coddled friends were immature, dependant and had no common sense or boundaries. OP- even if your child sometimes feels the sting of being less privileged, I promise you they’re also noticing everything you’re doing right. You’ve been doing the absolute best you could, and I promise your son knows it. Big hug friend, you sound like a great parent who loves their kids.

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Thoughtful_giant13@reddit

Kids do notice differences because they assume everyone lives like they do, but they don’t care. We have a nice house but my 12yo daughter’s favourite place to go is her best friend’s high-rise flat. Kids care about the atmosphere, the food, and the fun, nothing else.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

OPs kid has told them that they feel a bit embarrassed. So the child in question in this post clearly does care.

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Thoughtful_giant13@reddit

Sorry for not being clear - I meant that kids don’t judge others in the same way. Of course they worry about how they appear.

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OkToe9494@reddit

Because a twp bed flat with two adults and a child is different to a two bed with 3 kids in one room. The living space isnt suitable. They need to prioritise the living space over the holidays

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puzzledbyadream@reddit

We had very little money growing up because my dad spent it all on cigarettes and alcohol. You are not doing that! We lived in a council house, never went abroad, didn’t go on residential school trips etc. I still had a nice enough childhood, however, because our mum took us to lots of museums and on walks and really got us interested in things. The one thing I will not be repeating with my future children, however, is the repeated refrain of “we can’t afford it”. It got to a point I was hiding letters from school that asked for money because I felt like I was being a terrible burden. Instead, I wish my parents had sought help from school or more privately worried about money. I am absolutely sure you are not doing this with your kids! I think it’s tricky living in London in particular because they’ll meet so many wealthy kids. However, love and care is the most important thing. And I bet your kids have that in abundance. An important lesson I learned at some point was that nobody’s family life looks like an advert family. Up until that point I was so jealous about something that didn’t even exist!

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zbornakingthestone@reddit

Bluntly - you chose to have three kids in a two bed flat that you haven't maintained properly - that has consequences for kids who are beginning to realise that they are the poor friend. The other blunt thing you need to understand is that you own a home in a nice part of London. Your kid might be the poor friend now - but give it 40 years and he and his siblings will be much better off than actually poor children. You've made choices that have consequences for your children - you need to be the one to make them understand just how fortunate they really are.

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Puzzleheaded_Drink76@reddit

I would talk to your child and acknowledge that yes, you have a less fancy property. But that is life and you will always know people richer than you and people poorer than you - and that's okay! The key is a) not to be a dick about it in either direction and b) not to make yourself miserable through comparison. It sounds like your kid has a perfectly nice life. The best way is to accept those differences just like you encourage him to accept other kinds of differences. And enjoy the friends' hot tub/pool/giant TV whatever.

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baconkopter@reddit

Stop being silly. You sound like a good parent. Just make sure they're safe, fed and in a good mood when they come over and that's it. Friends don't care about anything else.

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aspacetobelieve@reddit

My house was always a bit like the Weasleys house, with things not working or being run down, and lots of us squeezed into not many rooms. I played sport on team where everyone seemed to have lovely modern nice houses. But for some reason when my team mates stayed over they seemed to really enjoy it, I think because my mum used to make them feel so welcome and at home 💜

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SmokeStatus1593@reddit

If you grew up really poor and presumable didn’t want that for your kids why did you think it would be okay to have 3 of them when there are only two bedrooms? This problem was foreseeable so my sympathy for you is capped. You’re repeating the cycle for your kids.

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Cantthink2023@reddit

You own a home in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Give your kids head a wobble!

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Kaliasluke@reddit

If you live in London and your kid is going to state school, I can assure you that there will be plenty of kids at that school living in flats or cramped terraced & semi housing that’s only differentiated from a flat by a postage stamp of a garden. Maybe he’s only befriended the ones with well-off parents, or maybe, like you, the ones living in tiny flats & houses don’t invite people round that much.

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OneCatch@reddit

>the same situation I felt as a kid which was feeling like the poor friend. That feeling has never left me Better that than them being entitled sods. I know that's flippant, but it's true. Your kids have a stable, comfortable home. And you're probably actively and passively instilling them the importance of working hard and being sensible with money. >He’s asked if his friend can come round and he admitted he felt a little embarrassed 13ish is the age where this feeling will be most acute and it's something for your kids to work through in their own way. Best thing you can do is keep supporting them *generally* rather than hyperfixating on this specific thing and forcing them into conversations about it or trying to 'solve' it for them. If he wasn't embarrassed about this he'd be embarrassed about some other thing instead. And, frankly, even if some of his peers are actually snobs about it, he'll learn something useful about a) dealing with those situations and b) who's actually worth being friends with >Our flat is also a bit grotty because we have prioritised family holidays over renovations. Depending on the scale of the issue, *this* might be something you could focus on. A lick of paint makes a big difference. Don't need to go mental or spend loads of money, but just show that you've heard him and are making an effort. If you do, make it a bit of a family effort though - have the kids put in a bit of the work (whether that's painting, tidying, whatever) given that it's something which ultimately benefits them!

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Icy_Ad6293@reddit

I grew up as the poor friend . My friends didn't care and felt empathy for me. Still didn't take away the shame and embarrassment I felt. It really does a number on you.

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CountryBulky7105@reddit

It does. I’ve had an inferiority fompldx for life

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oscarx-ray@reddit

My parents couldn't keep up with the Joneses for "stuff" when I was a kid. They also prioritised holidays, experiences, and time together as a family. Even when my house had no running water from lead pipes, and my clothes / trainers were cheap compared to my pals, I felt the love, and I truly appreciate all the more what my parents did for me now, as an adult.

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oscarx-ray@reddit

That is to say that you're doing a fantastic job.

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LegsElevenses@reddit

I feel like this. We have two kids per room, crammed into a tiny rented property. The kids always want friends over but I can only really facilitate it if their siblings aren’t here as it’s so small. I always feel so embarrassed, and try and remind myself that comparison is the thief of joy. When my kids do have friends over, the friends just want to see the child they came to play with and seem oblivious… it’s me that worries about their parents. I also grew up really poor, single parent family and we were very hungry and lived in a house that was falling apart. I had a rich relative pay for me to go to a private school for a while as the relative felt it would help me as I lived in such an awful situation. It did the opposite, it basically set me up for this feeling of unending comparison and worthlessness I feel now in comparison to others. Many of the kids there had drivers and huge London houses with big gates etc… parts of my house the ceiling had fallen down and there were rats in my home my parent couldn’t pay to have exterminated! 🐀 … kids at that school were going skiing or to the Caribbean and I never left the country until I was an adult. My kids have no idea what it’s like to live like that so I think having a loving home, food on the table and a happy existence should not be diminished by the joy thief of comparison.

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CountryBulky7105@reddit

With the greatest of respect why did you choose to have 4 kids?

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skyepark@reddit

I also wanted to add that just because they live in a nice large house doesn't mean one can tell what their family situation is either.

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skyepark@reddit

You sound like you're not past your scarcity stage. There will always be something to be embarrassed about, however turn it into a source of pride. I'm in London too I'm in a two bed flat. Most have houses but not all and others still rent so don't judge yourself. We're all trying our best and if your son gets judged then those are not his friends.

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ukreader@reddit

When I was a kid, I much preferred going to houses with kind parents and good snacks over anything else. One of my friends had a beautiful, huge house but her dad yelled at her all the time and I hated going over there. As long as your house is clean, I wouldn’t worry too much about this.

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Vectorman1989@reddit

One of my friends lived with his dad who was a raging alcoholic. House was a state and his dad would just sit in the living room drinking. You were constantly on edge when you went round because his dad would randomly wake up flip out after lying paralytic all day on the couch.

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Serious_Escape_5438@reddit

Yeah a friend of mine had an amazing house but her parents were horrible. They used smacking as a form of discipline and were always making judgemental comments.

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pickindim_kmet@reddit

Going to my SE Asian friend's two-bedroom flat with his super friendly parents who made food for us constantly was 100x better than my other friend's house that had loads of space, games consoles and everything I could need and his parents were (and still are) weird and awkward. Kids love and remember warm parents.

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BackgroundAttempt137@reddit

Totally agree with this. My kids had friends who lived in 5 bedroom houses and the friends they loved to visit most lived with their mum, granny and an older sibling in a small flat. What they remember is that she made them their favourite curry and they were made to feel so welcome. Based on how much you care, I’d bet your kids’ friends like coming over. Acknowledge what your son is saying but empower him to understand that a fancy house is not required to enjoy life.

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turbospeedweasel@reddit

Yup, the kid with the biggest house in our friend group I don’t think his dad uttered a word to me in a 10 year span. He wasn’t mean or anything but it was awkward AF.

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thecitypartoftown@reddit

Agreed. The place I spent the most time growing up was at one of my “poorest” friends. His Dad was disabled and they lived in a council house, but boy did they make us all feel welcome, we had so much fun there. I would stay there most weekends when I was able to!

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Fit_Competition_3736@reddit

3 kids and two bedrooms is vile. No doubt you tried your best. But unfortunately your best isn't good enough. If you don't care enough about them to move further out to somewhere with more space You are stunting their ability to have anyone come round their house in the future out of embarrassment. The long term effects of your decisions are more than you could know. But at least take solace in the fact that you think about it and care. But ultimately what are you gonna do about it?

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NoCatch2153@reddit

I went to a posh school but come from a poor area. One thing it taught me is that the kids were no different to me. It helped to break down barriers throughout my life, and gives me the ability to mix with both rich and poor alike.

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OkToe9494@reddit

3 kids in a two bed flat and prioritising holidays is kind of a wild decision to make....

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Pargula_@reddit

Comparison is the thief of joy.

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it_aint_me_babz@reddit

All good, character building.

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Individual_Corgi_887@reddit

Lol I had the smallest house of all my friends by a long way, but my friends literally lived at our house. We rarely went to other people's houses, they often felt cold and unwelcoming with very little presence of the family. Having a two bed flat in London is a huge deal, you've achieved something most people can't. Be proud!

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AgileInitial5987@reddit

Most people’s favourite character in South Park was Kenny. Take from that what you will.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Literally nothing because it adds nothing?

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AgileInitial5987@reddit

Here was me thinking it showed that someone’s popularity in society wasn’t defined by their socio-economic status 🤷🏼

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Kenny is an abstract cartoon figure of satire. He doesn't reflect a real world person, or real world scenarios. He's a ridiculous figure who served often as a punchline. He's not popular because he's poor, he's popular because he's a figure of ridicule with a running gag. If anything his poverty is mocked, it's not especially sympathetic. Cartman is the most popular character and the most merchandised.

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KatVanWall@reddit

My kid goes to private school, which is paid for by her dad (we're divorced and have 50/50 custody). I'm self-employed and poor, and live in a really small house where her room is tiny (like, too small to have a friend sleep on the floor tiny). She doesn't seem to mind yet, but not gonna lie I do feel a bit bad sometimes. We live like an hour from her school, so none of her friends have been over yet, but none of the parents have ever been cunty to me; they all seem pretty nice! I do feel embarrassed about birthday gifts sometimes though, as although I try to be thoughtful, I don't have much disposable income at all. But I don't honestly think the parents notice yet or care. I drive an ancient car and my clothes are kind of lowkey and my favourite jacket is tatty as fuck, so they probably think I'm genuine old British aristocracy LOL. (Her school is very 'new money' and 99% of the families are what the Americans call POC - idk if that's the reason they're polite, they understand what it takes to drag yourself up the social ladder by your bootstraps! But more likely they just don't notice or care about my class that much, since they haven't been to my home.)

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Alekazam@reddit

I grew up as one of the ‘poor’ kids in my primary school but I scarcely thought it at the time. Similar to you, we lived in a one bed flat in a nice area, but my friends all lived in larger houses as you describe. Although as I got older I was more conscious of the divide, I never once thought that my parents were failing. We eventually moved and I got my own room when I was about 12 or 13 and even though it was a small house to be honest I was just thankful for that!

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Icy-Weather8719@reddit

I think you’re overthinking. Are you kind decent people? Then you’re good. I was the kid with the huge house and holidays when I was younger. My best friends were those who my parents felt were kind and a good influence rather than the size of their houses. And anyone who does judge doesn’t matter.

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pix1985@reddit

Prioritising holidays is great as they will keep those memories forever, but if you’re looking at moving in the future then you need to switch priorities for a while, investing the money into your home will mean you will get more when you sell.

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Ok-This-That-1696@reddit

You sound like a good parent. Your child will probably turn out better than most others. You care, you sacrifice and give them everything you can, and that's probably more than most. They might not see it now. You might not see it now. But in what you believe you lack now, your child and the generations that follow will make up for in spades.

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Snoo-84389@reddit

Mate, you havent let them down! Look at where you say you were in your 20's to where you are now 😀 And you are clearly giving your kids a loving n caring home environmental and are taking them away on family holidays. Many parents don't do that and many kids don't receive that (as you seem to understand). I think that you are doing your very best to set up your kids as best as possible for this world. You absolutely should be proud of what you have done and what you are doing 👏

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onionsofwar@reddit

As the poor kid who also can't seem to shake that feeling, my mates were happy to be invited in (even when I was embarrassed) because my parents actually gave them attention and chatted and were friendly and easy going. On the practical side though, you don't need renovations but if the place is certainly clean, that will make a difference. Make sure they have some space, it's clean and they're well hosted and you're good to go.

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sv21js@reddit

From an outsider’s perspective, I’m impressed by anyone who manages to make a life in London work with a family. I’m impressed by anyone who buys a home without help from family. You’ve created a stable life for your children and that is huge by itself. Also, if I were them I’d rather go on the holiday than have new kitchen cabinets or whatever. Those are memories they’ll have forever.

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Barbora1519@reddit

What you’ve achieved is something to be proud of . There are always people you can compare yourself to . But what’s the point ? There will always be somebody richer than you . What you need to do is to teach your children to be confident about what they have .my brother has always struggled with money but he was always the first one to announce when he couldn’t afford something . He’s never been embarrassed about it or apologetic . His job only paid so much . He’s learned to be very good with whatever money he has . If somebody offers to pay for lunch , he has no problem with it . He doesn’t assume that somebody will pay for him, but he also doesn’t feel the need to reciprocate . He knows who he is and what he has and to my knowledge has never compared his lifestyle to anybody else’s . That’s the way to go .

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peppermint_aero@reddit

Gently: you don't control house prices. It sounds like you're in the south of England. If you are, almost nobody can out-earn those prices unless they're in finance or something. It sounds like you've done your best on the things you could control. Have a chat with your son about his feelings. True friends won't care what his house looks like but he may want to process some feelings.

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Serious_Escape_5438@reddit

The people with those fancy houses probably come from family money, or bought years ago.

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peppermint_aero@reddit

Yep. In London you pretty much only own property (under 50) if you're either inheriting, got help from family, or are an extremely high earner. Especially houses.

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strolls@reddit

> It sounds like you're in the south of England. OP says London in the submission.

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peppermint_aero@reddit

Well spotted, thanks

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

100%. Shame and guilt are two of the most profound emotions we can experience. OP and their child both need to process these in a healthy a way as possible, even if it just means acknowledging it and normalising it. It's normal to feel embarrassed about cramped or outdated surroundings. Society conditions us to revere material settings, and demonises poverty. If OPs kid isn't allowed to discuss that openly, they'll just internalise the shame. I would know, because I was OPs kid at one point in my life except in much more extreme circumstances.

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mulymule@reddit

Growing up I was slap bang in the middle, I was round friends houses who was 2 up 2 down houses in shit hole areas and had as much fun (if not more) as going around friends houses which were 8 bedroom houses with thier own horse stables and school in the garden. Kids can be bastards to each other, but friends don’t give a shit. You’ve achieved what you wanted and you should be proud

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GeekyGamer2022@reddit

Fuck 'em. They're all probably up to their eyeballs in debt and their entire life is a sham, a thin veneer of aspirational bullshit built upon a house of cards. Don't let yourself get dragged into that "lifestyle". You do what you think is best to provide for your kids.

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hibutterscotch@reddit

I grew up in a very big house, swimming pool, etc… all my friends were impressed until they spent over 30 mins with my parents shouting abuse at me or my siblings and they stood there awkwardly. My favourite house to go to was the “poor kid” who had a homely flat and a kind mum that would bring us snacks and made me want to be her kid. It hasn’t even registered to me that they were the poor kid until this post made me think about it, all I remember is their flat being homely.

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ProfessorYaffle1@reddit

You haven't let them down. You have , it appears, got through some incredibly tough times and have managed, despite that, to be sucessful in your role and to provide your kids with a safe, secure hom. You are doing fine. Tens get embarassed over all kinds of stuff. I think in the short term, tlak to your kid. Explain that you are't, obviously, in a position to move home right now, but ask whether there is anything specifc that it might be possibleto do that would make them feel better. IFthe flat looks a bit tired, is letting the id and their friends free with some paint to spruce it up a bit an option? or letting teen have a free hand in their own room? Or even, if it is feasible, asking if they would prefer that you gavve them a bit of cash so they could take their mate out to a cafe. It's also not to early to talk to them about finaces more generally - I am not sure what, if any, teaching kids get in school about budgeting, fiancial products etc but as a parent those are things you can talk about - letting them know that a lot of people have expensive stuff but also have big loand, or lots of credit card debt, - notto diss their friends but so they have a clearer understnading of why you don't have all those things, and why getting into lots of debt isn't a great idea It's also possble that the way the friend sees it is different tohow you and your kid see it. Growing up, our house was never as smart looking as those of most of my friends, I'm one of 4 kids so my family had less disposable incom than many, I was sometims a bit embarassed but learned that a lot of my friends loved it as they felt our house was more relaxed and cozier than than theirs. For some, they also valued the fact that there were no huge rows or nasty digs between the adults in the house, and (in some cases much later) I also found that several of my friends had at different times talked to my paents becasue they found them more approachable and less judgmental than their own. Your kid's may all have fantastic parents but I think it is likely that some of them may find things they value in your home that you don't see. When my parents got an extension, I was practically knocked down in the rush of mates who learned I was going to be allowd to chose the decor for my room and paint it myself , because they were not allowd to, they had to have their rrooms look nice anda be done 'properly' - the chance to come and be allowed to muck around with paint rollers and stencils (it was the 80s, don't judge me!) was very appealing .

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livvileo@reddit

There are plenty of other, more important ways to be "rich" in life. I was always the poor friend growing up but it's not why I didn't invite my friends over, I didn't invite them over because my mom was neurotic and controlling and judgmental. So be rich in kindness, and warmth, and empathy. Be the mom who has an open home, who listens to her son, who gives space for him to have friends over if and when he wants. And engage with those friends kindly. Those are all wayyyy more important.

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technomat@reddit

I told our daughter, there are people far poorer than you, if you don't understand I can give you less stuff/money so you can see, she never goes hungry and has a good phone and tablet etc, she went to a school where parents ranged from council housing low income to some very affluent people with houses with stables for the horses. As a parent you can only do your best and within what you can afford, I use to also tell her if they are rude if come round because they don't like it then it's on me and Mum and they are not the type you should hang with, as people should be respectful enough to not look down or be rude about your house.

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Background_Work1254@reddit

What is mad that you make 3 kids while living in 2 bedroom flat.. insane

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ForwardCity9803@reddit

I have 3 kids of similar ages (unsure of your youngest), how I would handle this is getting some good snacks in and taking the other kids out somewhere else. The place will feel more spacious without the rest of you and the boys will enjoy having the place to themselves

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Naive_Reach2007@reddit

I'd tell your son that comparison is the thief of joy, remind him you own a property that in London is a feat in itself and some people have showy stuff but are comparatively poor. https://alearningaday.blog/2019/06/04/joseph-heller-and-enough/ This may help

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_bubble_butt_@reddit

I’m so sorry you’re feeling upset by this ❤️ I was always the “poor friend” growing up but my mum always made my home feel warm, clean, and kept guests well fed. Those are the main thing kids notice when they visit, and sometimes visiting “rich” friends prefer being a guest because in spite of it being smaller than what they’re used to, they could feel the love there and know parental figures who are present/interested (because there are other ways kids go without despite living space and money). Your child’s friends might come to see your place as a home from home. It might also serve as an education in what different backgrounds are like

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Correct-Ad-6605@reddit

My mum+dad broke themselves to provide everything for me because they had nothing growing up. I wanted for nothing and had everything my friends had and more. We had a 3 bed detached home with a fair bit of land so we were 'keeping up appearances' quite easily. Or so i thought. Tons of debt and silly financial mistakes made sure they ended up fairly penniless and i had to save both their retirements at the destruction of my own. Looking back, it was constantly chasing the good life that was the cause, but honestly, i wouldn't change it even if i could. I had a great childhood. The absolute best.

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Long_Creme2996@reddit

Why did you have 3 kids if you can only afford a 2 bed flat?

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East-Position8228@reddit

I was the poor friend growing up and felt the way your child is feeling. All you can really do is what my Mum did and reassure them that their friend isn't coming to judge your house, but spend time with them. After the first few times, the feelings should lessen a bit, but they'll probably pop back up intermittently when their friends get something shiny and expensive at their houses.

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lamb1282@reddit

No matter how rich you are there is always someone with more than you. There is nothing wrong with your home and you have provided a safe family home, it may be humbling for some of his friends but that not a bad thing and you should not be ashamed of what you have achieved. You can do your best have your home at its best for your son’s friend to come round and provide some nice food for them as snacks or for dinner. Talk to your son about what you have achieved through hard work and you hope to see him do more than you and achieve higher again. Let him know where you came from and the steps you had to take to get to where you are now.

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srogijogi@reddit

Well, I'm not sure if I will be nice, but I'm sure that I will be honest. I grew up in a different country, very poor too. Poor to the point of being humiliated by this, not enjoying my childhood fully, feeling as a worse one, 24/7. But this fade away as I became an adult. I understood pretty quickly that my mum (single parent) did what she could and was able to do to make our life easier somehow. There always will be someone with much more money. People will always look up, at the richest. People always will compare themselves to richer than themselves, but never to poorer. And trust me, whatever happened to your life, there are people on this planet who have less and they know that due to flow of information (internet). What can you do then? If you cannot give your kids money, give them something more valuable: time. Spend time with them, give them feelings that they are important. Help them become good, interesting people. They will remember this, probably more than they didn't get newest iphone or they didn't life in a mansion.

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Pauliexxx@reddit

Can’t you start to prioritise the family home from now on, at least for a while, make it a home you are proud of.. if it bothers you this deeply surely it wouldn’t hurt for a year or two, then go back to the holidays when you feel your in a good place homewise and I’m sure the kids will love to see the home spruced up 👍🏼🥰

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Economy_Reveal_957@reddit

I have some very minor hang ups about the opportunities I missed as a kid because I was the poor kid. But then I remember just how many of my friends parents hit them, or put too much pressure on them to succeed, or didn’t accept them or encourage them as themselves, or didn’t protect them, or teach them basic decency. Parenting is not about resources, it’s about support. I would choose being poor over any of these in a heartbeat. I would choose not going on those school trips over having an emotionally distant or abusive parent every single time. Because it made me feel like a human, not an extension of my parents’ ambitions.

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ThatFilthyMonkey@reddit

Grew up at maybe not the poor kid but friends always had new bikes, latest consoles, whereas I made do with second hand etc. for what it’s worth, they will understand when they’re older and probably have a much better handle on money matters than their peers. It can also slightly motivate them to do the best they can in life while still being happy with their lot.

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Awkward-Warning-9238@reddit

I've been trying for a kid for 5 years. Bro, trust me, you're rich. I'm sure his mates wont care.

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Competitive_Test6697@reddit

Is it wise to have 3 children when your living situation doesnt work for that number? And going on holidays before decorating? Something youll want to do before selling anyways.

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Honey-Badger@reddit

I think in London you'd be surprised at how normal all aspects of life are. Your kids will have mates whos parents are mega rich and mates who are in a far worse situation than you are, I highly doubt it will phase any of them at all

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gentlebeast06@reddit

Real friends will appreciate the time spent together and the love in your home, not the size or appearance of it.

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Pure_Pollution_9823@reddit

OP, you need to take a breath and relax. I grew up in a decent home, mother was a SAHM and my father was an officer in the RAF. They bought a house in a less popular area of the village, that was less flashy and smaller than a lot of the other officers, but affordable. The house was always spotless, my brother and I had our own rooms and financially we were 'comfortable'. However, the atmosphere was cold and unwelcoming. I was rarely allowed friends over, and I was more embarrassed by the atmosphere than the fact that our house wasn't some flashy McMansion. I was a single parent to a kid with multiple disabilities. I couldn't work until he was 13, as life was an endless whirlwind of medical appointments, school issues etc. I also started having a lot of medical issues, so we were skint. I was mentally and physically broken, and whilst the house was clean, it was cluttered and due to a dodgy landlord, pretty shabby. I felt embarrassed when friends of both myself and my son came over, but I wanted to do everything I could to help my child build solid friendships so I always tried to encourage him having his mates over, despite my discomfort. OMG, I needed a revolving flippin' door! His mates LOVED being round. They could mess around without worrying about posh carpets being ruined, I was forever baking to feed the hordes (far cheaper than buying in the local shop) and I became an adopted mum/auntie to all these kids, most of whom came from very obviously rich families. They loved having the freedom to be themselves without judgement, I heard all their problems and worries, whilst everyone respected my rules (and I had very clearly defined and inflexible boundaries) they also knew that I would respect their privacy whilst also intervening whenever necessary (bullying, self-harm, abuse concerns- I spoke to parents or relevant authorities) The kids would frequently say that they loved being at my house, preferring it to their beautiful homes. And the parents also loved popping over, there was always a cuppa ready and most "popping by to pick up the kid" moments lasted an hour or more. And whenever I struggled physically, I had kids squabbling over who mowed the lawn, washed the windows etc. It was busy, but lovely. I moved away 3yrs ago, now live with a partner along with my son and have finally gotten a dog. I have a lovely home, without the revolving door. And my son admitted last year that he kinda misses the "shabby chaos" even though he initially found it embarrassing. I don't- my phone is constantly going crazy with the same kids/parents still reaching out, but I can now have a bit more peace and quiet. Not too much, still got the son around, a bossy dog and the partner! It just shows though, kids place value on different things to adults. Make sure you've got plenty of snacks (teenage boys have hollow legs and are always hungry IME) be emotionally available and don't hesitate to join in -or start- the shenanigans. Nobody gives a monkeys left testicle if you're living in an Instagram home, they just want to chill, eat and have a laugh!

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Desperate-Ad-5109@reddit

My mates seems to like coming over to my place and we had a very modest house and obviously lived extremely frugally.

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laluLondon@reddit

I think this is a good experience to live growing up if your children get the right guidance from their parents. It helps them learn that their intrinsic value is not tied to how much money your family has and it also teaches them to set healthy boundaries when they can't afford some of the expenses that their friends will be able to afford. Their essential needs are being met, you are doing a good job.

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JingleWurzel@reddit

Never mattered to me as a kid. I had mates with nicer houses and things like their parents had a brand new car or gave them pocket money, or bought them a flash bike or the rare Pokémon cards. I also had mates on rough council estates. Usually though I preferred going to those peoples houses because they'd offer you snacks and pop and do their best to make you feel welcome. The more affluent kids if you saw their parents they didn't ever really seem fussed you were over. Not bad, not good.

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Wavesmith@reddit

I think you’ve done amazingly! It’s unfortunately the downside of managing to live and go to school in a nice area: you will necessarily spend time with people who are financially better off than you. We had the same when our daughter went to nursery in a a nice area of our city, we do alright but all of our friends had bigger houses, more holidays etc. I try to see it as, there’s good and bad in every situation. Maybe the friends have smart houses but parents who are uptight about the doing fun things there. Maybe they have expensive things but very little quality time with their parents. Maybe the have no opportunity to learn not to be entitled and value the things they do have.

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dark_sparklex@reddit

Growing up I’d rather go to the house with the nice parents, who cared about their kids and loved their friends. Made us feel safe and welcome door was always open attitude. Love makes a home

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glorycock@reddit

Kids growing up in London very often gain the rich experience of meeting people from all walks of life, from very rich, slightly rich, normal income, struggling badly etc… In London sometimes you can see multi-million houses (and flats), and there will be “social housing” literally across the street. I genuinely wouldn’t worry about this - this isn’t America, and **being a cool kid isn’t about money**.

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Arizonal0ve@reddit

I think it’s important to recognize that yes some experiences stay with us for the rest of our lives and as long as we’re aware of that and that it sometimes clouds our judgment it’s totally fine. I was the poor friend in my teens for years but relatively speaking because we actually had a big detached home and it was a beautiful home. But my parents divorced as soon as we moved there and my mum was working long hours to pay the bills and there wasn’t money for much else. So as an 11 year old I was cooking dinner every night for when my mum would get home. I would often have friends around and they would be surprised when I started food preparation while they were still there. All that never bothered me and I started working at 12 so I wouldn’t have to ask for money for certain things and that didn’t bother me either. But once I was more in my teens I realized i was always dressed “poor” vs others. Not just no brands, just not a lot of clothes and often hand me downs from my sister. Once I started earning money as an adult buying “nice” clothes has always been my achilles heel. I have too many now but I just so enjoy being able to have a variety of choices. Anyway, my point is, your eldest is 13 and his feelings are valid but it’s also a moment to recognize together and just talk about priorities in life and the simple fact that shit costs money and that every household has a different income which will dictate how they live what they drive etc but that bigger houses newer cars don’t define the worth of someone and doesn’t necessarily mean they are better or happier etc.

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princewinter@reddit

I think the ONLY THING that matters is that your kids are hygienic, which by the sounds of it, you're a great parent and that isn't an issue. I went to secondary school with a kid who ABSO-LUTELY stunk. It wasn't his fault, his house was a total shithole with like 10 dogs, no one ever cleaned, it was disgusting. He was a nice kid and we were still friends, but whenever I would stay at his I'd come back stinking. My mom would barely be able to stand it in the car, and I'd have to strip and shower the second I got in. I would never have cared about how "posh" someone's house was, and granted I was still friends with this kid, but the hygiene was definitely an issue. Beyond that, kids don't really care. And even if there's a comment made, try to think of it as an echo of their parents rather than the kid themselves. Kids just parrot what they've grown up hearing.

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MobiusNaked@reddit

Are they loved, warm and fed? Then they are rich.

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-Not-Today-Satan@reddit

Do you love each other? Are you safe? Are you warm? Do you have clothing? Do you have enough food to fill your bellies every day? And enough to pay your bills? Then you are rich. Everything else is trinkets and adornment. You’re doing great.

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seshwan33@reddit

I was this kid growing up but relative to the country we were in an affluent area. I was piss poor compared to my friends as I was in a single parent house hold and my dad earned very little. My friend’s parents were all wealthy. I didn’t feel like they judged me for it much. And when I went to other people houses I certainly didn’t care how much wealth they had. I guess where it made an actual difference was as we got older and wanted more expensive life experiences. But by that point I was living with other relatives who had more of a middle class income and it was easier to take part in expensive stuff. I think it’s a hard one but the main thing is just explain finances and economics as best you can to your kids. And also if kids are mean to them about it then I don’t think their parents have done a good job of educating them on people who are less well off than them. And that’s more of a reflection on them than you.

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No-Championship9542@reddit

Leave London it's a shithole, humans aren't designed to live in tiny cages like animals.

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MingePies@reddit

Personally I can’t see the appeal of London at all. If it was me, I’d definitely move elsewhere but it’s not that simple for everyone. Many are tied to work, family or social circles in the area. It’s not for me but I can certainly see why it appeals to others.

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No-Championship9542@reddit

You can live outside it, in an actual house and get into central quicker on the train than people from zone 3, etc.

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RiceeeChrispies@reddit

"my kids friends think my house is too small" "whole city is a shithole, move away" what a take lol

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No-Championship9542@reddit

It does in many places actually have a strong smell of poo poo

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RiceeeChrispies@reddit

I live in a farming county , I can assure you the smell of poo is much stronger up here

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No-Championship9542@reddit

The manure smell isn't as pungent as London sewer

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Far_Kaleidoscope_102@reddit

Remind your kid that there are others in this country that have literally nothing. They will wake up Christmas Day and have nothing to open, no Xmas dinner to eat. Sad sad times a lot of people have it way worse than your child. If your child’s biggest worry is his mates kitchen being bigger than yours then I say you’ve done well to even provide a kitchen.

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menthol_patient@reddit

You go without so they can have a better life. Welcome to being a good parent.

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Familiar-Woodpecker5@reddit

My son’s friends all live in nice owned houses. We live in a rented 2 bed that needs work. My son isn’t embarrassed and his friends couldn’t give a fig. But I do understand how you feel, I have felt it many a time. Teenage boys don’t care. Keeping up with the Jones’s is not a way to live. You are where you are and you have what you have. Some people have nothing. ❤️

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Consistent_Time_40@reddit

You haven’t failed. Kids remember love, safety, and time more than space. Be honest with him, hold your pride, and trust that your resilience is the real inheritance here now.

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BarbiePeonies@reddit

I also grew up as a kid with two siblings and in a two bedroom terraced house. Trust me your kids are going to appreciate everything you have done for them. My parents bought our home in quite an affluent area and I will forever be grateful for it even if it meant I didn’t have my own bedroom. My friends who had bigger homes lived in kinda dodgy areas and even though my home was the smallest everyone always wanted to come over to my house because of the environment. Did I have feelings of embarrassment definitely yes. But I realised that I am still very fortunate in many other ways. As you’ve said you are planning to move so hopefully things do get better.

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Informal_Republic_13@reddit

My kids always seemed to make friends with all sorts including very well off people, and we are middling but appear worse off due to stingy habits and our own materially poor upbringing- they never batted an eye! In fact living near a field containing cows at one point was of much more interest (positive!) to the kids from high rise flats in town. People are people and their relative affluence level is not top of mind especially for kids.

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Petrichor_ness@reddit

Your attitude makes you a brilliant parent. I can't offer any advice to your specific situation but I can offer a perspective from my childhood. My sister went to private school that my very working class parents couldn't afford. My bat shit crazy mother drummed it into her that the most important thing in the world was perception and appearing to be well off. Mum wouldn't park her crappy old car near the school to pick sis up (had to park several streets away), sister was taught to never let her school friends know mum was a cleaner (had to tell everyone mum was a bookkeeper). The most important thing in the world was not letting sisters school friends know she/we were poor. By the age of 15, sister was expelled from private school for shoplifting and stealing from class mates (and a spot of light prostitution). To this day (she's now in her late 30s), she maxes out her credit, drives cars she can't afford, has no savings, buys expensive gifts for her friends and last I heard, was still constantly borrowing money to cover her mortgage/luxury holidays abroad. From the sounds of it, you're teaching your kids about money the right way.

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Safe-Error-2992@reddit

You have not failed. Kids remember safety, love, holidays, not square footage. Talk honestly, normalize differences, invite friends anyway. Your resilience is the real inheritance you are giving them daily.

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Qatmil@reddit

Friends are unlikely to care about the flat. What would make a difference is the lack of privacy depending on how the siblings get on. If they are happy to have his siblings hanging out then there’s no problem. If they don’t want that, then getting the siblings entertained away from 13 and friend would make a huge difference. In my experience, pizza (you don’t have to order, supermarket is fine), haribo and crisps or popcorn go down very well with teenage boys and is far more likely to sway their opinion of hanging out in your home than having more rooms.

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Aggressive-Risk9183@reddit

It is a massive achievement buying a two bed flat in a safe area in London. It’s also a massive achievement buying a three bed soon. It is fair to validate his feelings but it’s not the same as when you were younger at all. He’s a kid feeling embarrassed and that would also happen if he lived in a 3 bed semi and attended private school as it’s all relative to who is in your social circle. Your kid will ultimately care about what his mates will think. You can reassure him that they won’t give a shit. If it helps, I was the richer kid growing up. I remember going to my friend’s one bed council flat and all we thought at the time was that it was so cool that we could watch whatever we wanted and eat good snacks lol. It was my first choice of where to go hang out. You guys can also pay for him to do some fun stuff with his friends sometimes. You can also get some nice food for when friends come over. It’s an expense but much cheaper than finding an extra few hundred grand for a 3 bed semi (that is in fact still squashed let’s be honest). For context, I currently live in a one bed with my five year old and we already discuss that we can move further out but then we will not live around the corner from auntie or grandma etc. Good luck!

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siblingrevelryagain@reddit

Work with what you have-a loving home that will be welcoming and safe for his friend. Tell your child to pre-brief the friend that you live in a small place, so the two of them will ‘camp out’ in the living room. You sort them out with snacks etc and retreat to your bedroom and let them have the run of the living room for the evening & overnight-either sleeping on the sofas or mattresses/cushions/sleeping bags on the floor. Your child is lucky to have you

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Rumhampolicy@reddit

I hated my friends coming round, my house was just a dump compared to theirs. I went to quite a posh school, i was the poor kid. I didn't really notice until I was a teenager. Tbh, make sure the house is clean and doesn't smell. Maybe spend a bit on their bedroom to make them feel better.

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nandos1234@reddit

I get how your son feels. My parents house had carpeted bathrooms and they wouldn’t spend any money on repairing or replacing broken furniture and I refused to let anyone come around after I had an awareness of that. I just went out with my friends instead.

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PMOYONCEANDALWAYS@reddit

I understand the kid too. My mother was a single parent. I can remember my school offering us a school trip to Belgium. My mother said I could not go. Her reasoning was that she felt the country did not have good fire safety laws etc and she was not confident the accommodation would be safe. Looking back I think she could afford to send me on the trip and that the safety issue was an excuse that might have sounded plausible to some.

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Silver-Article9183@reddit

My best mate growing up stayed in the worst part of town. His house was my favourite to visit because his mum was warm, loving, and generous with the snacks. I hated going to another friend's house that was much nicer because I couldn't escape the feeling their parents were massive arseholes.

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smb3something@reddit

Living in London with 2 people on above average salaries can still feel poor. I feel you with the small flat situation. I'm also in an area where half the kids at school are in some type of social houseing, and we also have neighborhoods with 1-2M houses attending the same school.

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pseudonomdeplume@reddit

I was the poor kid at school - single mother, a sibling I shared a room with - and my friends used to beg to come to my house because they all loved my Mam. She's kind, funny, was always interested in them and their stories, and would make their time at my house as fun as possible. I never once had anyone mention that she wasnt as affluent as their parents, just that they all thought she was great. This isnt (just) me bragging - could you brainstorm some things for him and his friend to do? He might be at that age where to coolest thing you could do is give them snacks and let them game, could you set up the living room into a den for them for the night?

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thebedsheetghost@reddit

You have the kind of security I could only dream of. It is crazy to me you would care about such things whilst in your position.

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tittychittybangbang@reddit

I was the poor kid growing up too, but my mum barely even tried. She always claimed it was to be a stay at home mum but she was so emotionally absent and depressed she might as well not have been there. after my sister was born and in school we thought she’d try and work but no. All three of us were raised in poverty and to this day I support her financially. I never felt empowered and was embarrassed that she didn’t have a job when all my friends parents had careers. There were no family holidays, there was frequent food insecurity and she refused to have any of our friends over. It was like a dirty little secret and compounds my shame to this day. I would have given anything to have a parent like you growing up. ANYTHING.

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Good_Lettuce_2690@reddit

Move out of London.

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confuzzledfather@reddit

You can only control the things you can control. I remember going around the homes of friends that were richer and poorer than me, and the only real thing that stood out were the families that obviously loved one another, had parents who showed affection openly and wanted to spend time with each other.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

I grew up in a poor grotty home and felt a lot of shame over it. My parents were abusive and there was constant fighting. I felt jealous of my friends larger, clean homes. But I felt intensely jealous of their parents who were kind and loving. Both are relevent and important. OPs kid had feelings of shame that should be confronted and discussed and normalised. They shouldn't be shrugged off as "well your home is clean and loving though". My parents did the same "at least you're fed. At least you're not homeless". It's pretty invalidating and not dealing with feelings/emotions just causes a whole host of issues down the line (I would know, dealing with MH problems and therapy). They are two separate things really.

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confuzzledfather@reddit

Fair enough, was just giving my memories of a similar situation. I wasn't really bothered about how nicely decorated a friends place was, but their family dynamics did make an impression. Your right though and I wouldn't want to invalidate anyone's feelings.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Oh definitely. It's pretty common I think in society to kinda just...brush over uncomfortable stuff. Especially something as deeply personal as our homes, I can see you were just trying to be reassuring which is also helpful

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bumbleb33-@reddit

When you say "a bit grotty" is this something that you could spend a weekend fixing? A lick of paint and a carpet cleaner can go a long long way if that's part of what your teen I'd feeling like a barrier to friends coming round. If you're planning to sell soon this might be a good thing to do now anyway

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AnythingPeachy@reddit

I was the rich friend in the big house and whenever I went round to other people's places I never thought of them as being poor or looked down on them because of where they live. I just don't think kids really think like that. The only time it ever even came into my head was in passing like 'oh your parents sleep on a sofa bed in the front room, lucky they get to watch tv in bed' or 'wow your room is so small how did you manage to fit all your stuff in here'.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

That's great and for most kids it definitely the case. But OP is talking about their child's feelings and their child _has_ noticed a difference. So that's what needs to be addressed. The feelings and emotions that _do_ exist.

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AnythingPeachy@reddit

Yeah but what I'm saying is generally the feeling shouldn't exist. My situation is pretty similar to OPs atm and I'd be pretty surprised if my kids friends or parents of friends came round and noticeably judged the way I live.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Why shouldn't they exist? It's inherently human to care about our domestic space, and it's part of Ops kids developing an awareness of the broader social space (socioeconomic status). It's simply OPs kids mind expanding to undrrstand the wider world around him. It's healthy to explore that and to feel self conscious about it. The post isn't about being judged. There's zero suggestion in this post that OOs child's friends are judging him.

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AbsolutelyWingingIt@reddit

My best friend at school lived in a lovely four bed detached. Both her parents were doctors. I lived in a small, cramped three bed house with my family. I was embarrassed to have her over, but when she did come, I warned her my house was really small. Her words? “Wow, your house is so cool!” she came over many times after that and I never felt judged.

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JenCarpeDiem@reddit

Is your home warm? Are your kids happy? Do they spend all their time fighting for space, or do they play next to each other quite comfortably? Do you have a nice TV and a comfortable place to sit while watching it? Are there decent snacks on hand? Squash and tea? Any fizzy drinks? Is the home tidy, are there storage spaces for everything? That's the stuff your kids friends will really notice. They will be surprised to see three kids sharing a room, I honestly think most people would be, but they will *remember* the mood more than the size. The smallest home can be the happiest. I knew plenty of kids in big houses who had parents who totally ignored us, and it wasn't nearly as much fun as the tiny cramped houses with the parents who kept bringing us tea and biscuits and checking we were okay. It sounds like you moved in to this place expecting to move on a lot quicker, and that might be why the "flat is also a bit grotty" because it's not a priority since you don't really want to be there. It's the sort of thing that's easy to fall into, and easy to ignore, until something like an impending visitor happens and suddenly you can really see all the things you don't like about your life. Do yourself a favour, my friend, and commit to sorting out whatever you're calling "grotty." Figure out what it is, spend half an hour working out how much it will actually cost, and stop putting it off. Maybe it just needs a good clean, or an hour or work, or a trip to B&Q and a youtube tutorial. Make the time. Delay the family holiday into the off-season if you need to for the budget, because a week of fun just doesn't compare to improving the living space that you spend the other 51 weeks in. It looks better in the photo albums, sure, but you're missing the forest for the trees. :)

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StrawberryDesigner99@reddit

Honestly, move out of London.

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alillypie@reddit

I think it's important to educate kids on the fact that in life you can't have it all. You decide what's important what makes you happy and focus on that. Having a massive house and lots of money comes with sacrifices, do you think those parents have time to spend with their kids or do they just need to work work work? Teach your kids about budgeting and focusing on what they like and not what someone else have.

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Sezyluv85@reddit

Oh god, I feel you but don't worry. I was coming out of a post trauma depression and my house was a bit all over the place (a mess!) and I absolutely hated my kids bringing people over. However, her friends are all from different backgrounds and wealth and they all view my house as a safe house. Her friends have never judged me or my daughter. Obviously, I've been gradually getting on top of everything, but what it boils down to is if it feels like a happy environment it will be. If you are tense and stressed, that's what they'll notice x

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Best_Huckleberry8429@reddit

We live in a very nice house and my daughter is very lucky. Her best friend is one of four, they do not have much in the monetary sense but there is so much love in that house. My daughter loves going there. She’s even said she wishes we had a house like theirs. Their house is a 3 bedroom and all the children share with one of siblings. The bedrooms are tiny. My daughter is 13 and honestly hasn’t said anything about the house being small. Children having to share rooms etc. Please try not to worry too much about other children’s perceptions. Our experience has very much been that they really don’t care.

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SexySwedishSpy@reddit

I was friends with a really rich girl when I was a kid, and my mom was very self-conscious about it. She started trying too hard and it pushed the other family away. So whatever you do… don’t do anything you wouldn’t normally do. You are who you are and they are who they are, and that’s just how the world works. Don’t try to be anything you’re not (but always strive to do better, not being different).

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naturalconfectionary@reddit

I think in the short term, you could do their room up for them how they would like it. That would maybe help him feel less embarrassed

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zonked282@reddit

when i was growing up i had lots of friends from across the wealth spectrum , and i can say from my experience that the only thing i ever remembered about those houses was the vibes. i went to large, well off homes but was not allowed to sit on the good furniture and didnt get fed along with the family, and i went to friends living paycheck to paycheck in council housing and had wonderful fun and Tukey dinosaurs for dinner, no prizes for guessing which one i had negative things to say about.....

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moosebeast@reddit

His friends might not care about this as much as you think. I don't think I was aware about this kind of stuff until a later age. In any case, it might be good for them to see that not everybody lives in the same kind of house as them? I can identify as we are in a similar situation - two kids but also in a small house and in an area where all the other parents seem to be well off. We also avoid inviting people over to be honest, but I am cautious of passing down to them an anxiety over what other people think of us - might be something you want to be wary of too.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

OP isn't concerned about what his friends think. He's concerned about how his child feels. And his child has told OP that he feels self conscious and embarrassed. Those are valid feelings he's entitled to have, and whether his friends share his views or not is largely irrelevant.

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jackc01217@reddit

STOP! Remember this, your children are loved, safe and have a roof over their heads! Please don’t feel ashamed or embarrassed, feel proud that you’re raising 3 beautiful children in the best way you possibly can! Life isn’t about wealth, it’s about love, safety and stability and it sounds like you’re smashing all 3 of them! Take a step back and look how much you’ve achieved in YOUR life not others!!

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Plugged_in_Baby@reddit

From my own experience I can tell you the state of the home and the parents’ attitudes matter far more than the size and the value. I lived in a huge house, but I have three siblings so money was always tight and our house was messy and the furniture was old and cobbled together, and my parents were often stressed and yelling. I much preferred going to my friend’s place which was a clean, nicely decorated flat and her parents were lovely and chill.

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Designer-Initial-351@reddit

You've done well for your kids and just fell victim to comparison, you've made it so your kids will not struggle as you did. I was the poor kid, and you do notice it but it's not a feeling that dictates all parts of your friendships though it does open your eyes to how many people take things for granted! Even as a young kid (6yrs/7yrs) I had a friend who came round to my house and the first thing she asked was "Is this it or is there more in the back?". Totally serious, my mum was shocked because what kid has that mentality?! At the time, it was a two bedroom house with front & back garden and felt big enough for me. The same kid ended up having a great time and loved the attention she received (which was normal for me), didn't change her judgy-ness but she wanted to visit again. I was the friend that went round to friends houses who had fields for gardens and playrooms and pianos and such. The only one that didn't have the money to go into town all the time or split food evenly (rather than paying my share only). They were complaining they only got 2 games while I only got tgings at christmas and birthdays. It could be isolating but it didn't bring me shame, and the only time it became in issue is when crappy friends made it so. Crappy friends will make him feel like tgere's something to hide, good friends won't care. Your kids have a great start already, give yourself a break.

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pikantnasuka@reddit

I have 3 kids. They are very different people. The older 2, for various reasons, ended up at different secondary schools. They have incredibly different social circles. For my older son, we are the 'posh' family in the mix. We are probably roughly even with most of his friend's families in terms of income but our lifestyle is unlike most of theirs. They find me especially funny and point out to my son that when I go to see him everyone probably assumes I am his social worker or solicitor. When he lived at home they came round a lot; when major trouble interrupted his life a number of them contacted me and offered any help they could give (much of it not the sort of help I would want but the thought was nice). For my middle son, we are the 'poor' family. Most of his friends are much, much richer than us. They have lovely big houses in very nice areas and spend more on a holiday than I do on a year's housing. His friends have loads more spending money and expensive clothes and costly hobbies and the like. Their parents are unfailingly pleasant to us but they are also very, noticeably aware that we are not part of their ingroup. As is my son, who never invites friends over and is very careful about what invitations he accepts so as not to have the financial disparity be so obvious. I do feel shitty, often, that I can't give my kids what my middle boy's friends have. I also feel shitty, in a different way, that my younger son's friends think wearing neat clothes to court and refusing to allow them to smoke weed in my house is so 'posh'. For both of them, who is an actual friend and who is an acquaintance who judges these things has become fairly obvious. But I do feel you. Nothing can make you feel quite as small and inadequate as the first time your kid tries to make excuses for not inviting his friend over and has to admit it's because you live in a hovel compared to their home.

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joolijools23@reddit

Many moons ago I was very hard up and renting a tiny, very run down, ex-council house adjacent to a quite posh area when my kids were little and I felt the same as you do. The school was in the posh bit, my daughter would come back from friends homes and talk about how amazing they were, I felt so ashamed when they visited. I recently bumped into one of her best school friends in town, she told me everyone used to love coming to my house as it was so friendly and seemed full of love, it made my day!

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thomasjford@reddit

I feel the same way. We live on the South coast in an affluent village where a 4 bed house will set you back the best part of a million quid nowadays. Myself and my wife don’t earn a huge amount between us, and live in a small three bed mid terraced house. Most of my friends live in nice houses and have decent incomes. I do get down about it sometimes, and certainly stressed when we had no money. But at the same time, the kids get most of what they want and are really good kids, so sometimes you just have to accept that money isn’t everything and as long as you have your health and your family, it’s all good!

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gogul1980@reddit

We grew up poor too. We moved from Ireland to England in 1986 and we had to live in a hostel to begin with. When my parents finally got a flat we had to eat our first meal on bits of kitchen paper as we had no plates, furniture etc we had to literally build a life from 0. Over the years we finally got given a house (5 kids) when we were teenagers. Honestly my house was a revolving door. We didn’t have much money but all my friends enjoyed coming to ours. A warm fun house beats a stuffy clean one every time.

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butwhatsmyname@reddit

Hey OP, first of all, you're doing a great job for your kids. This is an impossible economic era to thrive in for the average person. You're doing everything you can. They are safe and warm and fed and loved. Something that might help you with the things you _can_ change: You're talking about being "the poor kid" and I get you. Off-brand trainers. Shared bedroom. No playstation. It was a crap way to grow up. I felt inferior, embarrassed. Like I wasn't worth as much as the kids with the hot trainers and the new cars. But that was never true. It wasn't true for me. It wasn't true for you. And it isn't true for your kids. You can't give them the hot trainers and the new car. But you can give them the knowledge and support they need to feel less of the embarrassment that we grew up with about that. They're old enough now. Make the time to sit and have a chat with them about how they feel about it. About seeing their friends having more stuff than they do. How it makes them feel about their peers and about themselves. Tell them about your own experiences and feelings. Talk about how it affected you, and the things you've learned since then. **You** know that you weren't a less worthy kid because your trainers were shabby. You also know that you wouldn't be a better parent if you bought them a new iPad each for Christmas. You've worked hard to get to where you are, and you deserve better proud of it. Help your kids to see that path, and to start exploring this. They live in a world of social comparison and competition, and bombarded by advertising. This is the moment to start helping them establish their own benchmarks, their own values. What makes someone a nice person? What makes someone a good friend? What are the things about a person which make them admirable? Would they like their bestie more if they owned nine Stanley cups? Would they love their [grandpa or whoever] more if he owned a Porsche? Would they love him less if he had no money? They get told a lot of "this is cool and that is cool, and this makes me better than you" in an environment where there isn't a lot of space to ask themselves "But does it, though?" Get them asking themselves that question. Help them value what really matters. It's not a magical fix, but it'll help them, and it'll help you

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SparkyWarbler@reddit

As one of those “poor kids” back in the day, don’t worry. We know that you’re trying your best and we don’t blame you for it. If anything it makes us stronger people. I had a friend much worse off than my own, and I didn’t care because her family were more welcoming and lovely than my own - all that matters is his friends feel cared for and safe.

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stevebucky_1234@reddit

My comment might not be read, but it's so much more about home than house. Spouse and I lived in the UK where kids were born, now in India over a decade. We live in a a flat but holiday as a family 3x a year, twice internationally. My teens' friends live in larger bungalows, but almost never travel, and have quite orthodox upbringing. I guess I'm saying it's about experience rather than assets.

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ElusiveCrab@reddit

Just this morning at work ive managed to secure some real shitty temp accomodation for a homeless family and finally got a vulnerable adult away from an abusive environment. After dealing with people in awful situations for years the thought of a grown woman who lives in a nice area with a decent standard of life curled up on the floor crying because her kids friends have nicer houses is absolutely *hilarious* to me.

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cleb9200@reddit

Children do not care. Growing up I was lower middle class, we had a roof and clothes etc but no fancy holidays. My friends’s houses ranged from lavish country pads with acres of land to grotty council flats covered in graffiti. I did not even notice until I thought back years later

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Clearly children do care, because OPs child cares.

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Independent-Cat-59@reddit

I grew up in a nice house, but my parents were very lazy and didn't tidy or clean much. I was always so embarrassed of the state of our house and jealous of any friends who had pristine clean houses, regardless of the size!

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And_Justice@reddit

If you want a bigger house then move somewhere that isn't London lol Having grown up in an affluent area I've got no real sympathy here - it's your job to humble your kids, not to pass on some generational insecurity that they should feel inferior to rich london kids

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Aggravating-Land7848@reddit

it's not "your job to humble your kids" it's your job to teach them how to feel confident in themselves - sorry OP's dealing with this because it does bring back some really awful, deep feelings of shame but she needs to stand strong in what's she accomplished and proceed with that confidence

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And_Justice@reddit

If your kids are complaining that their friends are richer than them despite being brought up in a posh area of London then it is your job to humble them.

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Aggravating-Land7848@reddit

no, it's "your job" to explain certain things, one being that if people look down on you for what you don't have or kiss your ass because of what you do, they aren't your friends You say "humble" but what you actually mean is shame which is one of the underlying factors here to begin with Hate people who treat kids like this & believe it's their duty to make them feel shit

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randysalmonspawn@reddit

Those who care don't matter, those who matter don't care.... this is the mantra you should try to instill in you teen xxx

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TibetIsNotAMushroom@reddit

This was me when I was young too. My friends liked coming over because my mum let us have more freedom. Camping in the garden and making a mess in the kitchen and stuff. She would just accommodate whatever we wanted to do. Whereas a lot of their parents made you adapt to their schedule. Sounds like you're a great parent and you have nothing to worry about.

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Zs93@reddit

Kids really don’t care about this and yes as they become teens they are more aware but if he has friends who are snobby they won’t stick around. The priority is making them feel safe, feeding them and giving them a comfortable life which you are doing ! You’re a great parent

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chosenbyyoutoday@reddit

You've not let anyone down. You sound like you're doing a great job. There are plenty of people that could learn a lot from you. You should be proud of what you've done for your family. His real friends won't think twice about where he lives, they will just be happy to be invited. Can I ask what keeps you in London? I have no idea how much you've paid for your accommodation but usually when I hear the prices it amazes me. Living up north is a completely different world when it comes to housing costs.

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TransatlanticMadame@reddit

Cook. Really, really well. The friends will remember your house as the one with all the food and snacks, and will want to come over soon. Homemade food is way better - and, from what I'm seeing of my kids' peers - a rare thing. The friends come again and again - we host lots of parties all year round. No one will care about the wallpaper. Just be a good host. And feed people!

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scrumdiddliumptious3@reddit

Easier said than done but have you ever considered moving out of London where your money would buy a much bigger property…?

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Jonmc88@reddit

Your kids are fed, warm and loved. Honestly, it doesn't get better than that everything else is set dressing.

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Cod_Proper@reddit

I hope that his true friends wouldn’t care where he lives really. Having been the person with (a literal) building site for a home in an ex council house with friends having multi million pound houses, my house was the place we all stayed for most sleepovers/activities etc from 12-18. I hope he has a good set of friends on him. You sound like a great parent to be concerned about this ❤️

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IAmLaureline@reddit

I was the 'better off' friend when I was a child. Not quite the only middle class family 'in the village' but not far off. I now realise my friends' houses were much smaller than mine but I didn't care at all then and I don't care now! As someone else said I felt comfortable in the houses where the families were nice and not comfortable where they weren't. Nothing to do with wealth or the size of their houses. I don't recall that we spent more time in my larger house than anyone else's. To be fair I'm old so we spent most of the time outside.

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Whulad@reddit

Proper friends won’t care and nor will most of their parents. You’ll always get a few snobby twats but that is their problem not yours or your kids.

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Beneficial-Level-651@reddit

He’s an easy idea to feel a little less poor, don’t live in one of the most expensive cities in the world!! My god man, why anyone lives in that shit whole amazes me anyways. Especially nowadays. It’s not the 19th century, work is available outside of the city.

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tigger064@reddit

Relocating yourself and three children is still an expensive and time consuming task.

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Ydoihavtofuckinlogin@reddit

Is this real? You own a two bed flat in London, safe area too, but his friends have 3-4 bed semis that you think are 800k - 1m. That does not add up at all for living in London like you say, they're not London housing prices.

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RedCrabDown@reddit (OP)

Sorry I don’t understand what you mean? We live in a south London borough that has really varied housing. Long long roads of either purpose built flats and estates like mine, or roads and roads of semis. I live on an estate of purpose built flats and maisonettes but literally on the same road is a house valued for £2m. I earn well but relative to London houses, it’s no where near enough.

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ZombieFrankSinatra@reddit

He's saying that those aren't London prices for those properties and in reality they're probably worth more than you're estimating. The property market is insane at present

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LetOk124@reddit

Yes they are. I live in a flat in London, zone 4 and the semi’s around here are those prices

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Morris_Alanisette@reddit

You're focussing too much on the size of your home. Understandable given your background but it's not the most important thing. Is it a loving home? Are there arguments all the time? Is there enough food to eat? Are you regularly passed out drunk? Is it clean and safe? Honestly if you're providing a clean, safe, loving home you're doing better than lots of people. There are plenty of kids who couldn't ever think about inviting friends over.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

For sure. I had a small, cramped and outdated home growing up and as a teen, definitely felt some shame and embarrassment around that. But equally I grew up in awful arguments, a wholly emotionally dysregulated environment, filthy surroundings, violence, lack of food and warmth etc. If I'd grown up with the latter, I could've processed and properly handled the former.

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Sad-Insurance1313@reddit

I grew up in a council estate where none of us had much money in the 80s/90s No kids myself, but I can tell you 2 things 1) What I remember from my childhood is genuinely the fun, time spent with my Mam & and abundance of love. Not what toys I had or didn't have. It sounds like you prioritise that too 2) Define "poor". It sounds like your kid is pals with some very wealthy folks' kids....how does that make you "poor"? You own a home, have full bellies (& hearts) & enriching experiences. You are doing great As an aside, the few "rich" kids I knew back then were genuinely way poorer than us. They were given material things in lieu of what kids actually need & want. Love, respect & TIME Listen, I know what a stranger has to say about your life is pretty irrelevant, but your house sounds like exactly the homely kind of place anyone would want to be. I imagine far from judging, these kids will come in & feel more at home than in their hermatically sealed boxes...you may be buying more snacks from now on haha

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rainaftermoscow@reddit

They have full bellies, own property in London and are able to take holidays. As someone who grew up on one of the worst estates in England I'd hate to see how OP would react to the genuine poor.

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RedCrabDown@reddit (OP)

I don’t think this is fair. I DID grow up how you describe and it has never, ever left me. So even though I can objectively recognise yes, we have created a safe life that means we can provide for our children, emotionally I feel that I have not been able to break out of what I experienced. I KNOW it’s irrational and I know relative to me right now, there are many, many people a lot, lot worse off. I know this. But I might as well still be the poor kid at school. And my son mentioning this morning that he wants to invite his friend round has just triggered all this stuff that I buried deep down.

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BonnieH1@reddit

You obviously love your children and are doing the very best you can for them. Your love and care for them is far far more important than the size of your house or material possessions. I know that's easy to say and doesn't change the feelings of being somehow less. When friends visit, make them feel as loved and cared for as your own children. Maybe focus on doing something together - bake cookies, have a scavenger hunt - something fun, different from what they might do in their own family and which demonstrates how a loving and supportive family works. Of course the activity will need to be appropriate for their age. (I'm not saying their friends' families are not loving and supportive.) If you haven't already, you might also consider having an honest conversation with your children to understand how they feel about things. It gives you a chance to be honest about your finances and support them to develop a healthy relationship with money and possessions. You may want to have individual discussions too. Keep loving and caring for your children! 💕

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EvilTaffyapple@reddit

I was that kid growing up. I lived in a shitty part of Croydon, whilst all my mates lived in the leafy suburbs in massive houses. I never had anyone come around because of how poor we were, which was hard as I got a scholarship for a private school, so the vast majority of my friends were rich kids. Just take solace in the fact it isn’t affecting friendships. It would be a different story if his classmates treated him differently because of who he was. I never experienced that myself as we all just wanted to play video games at someone’s house, but don’t feel too bad for how you live. You’re just doing what you can. You’ll drive yourself mad comparing your life to others.

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floor9represent@reddit

I was that kid. Two bedroom flat and sharing with my little brother haha. Yes it was embarrassing to have friends over and I was embarrassed until I left school. None of my mates ever made fun of me but of course it’s embarrassing as a kid. Is what it is and I wouldn’t think about it too deeply.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

I empathise because I was the poor kid too. And it's massively shaped my world view. What I will say is, growing up my family life was fractured and abusive. We didn't have fun happy holidays. Personally, I've always felt that feeling "poor" paled in comparison to the shame and anxiety of the abuse. And I always felt like a lack of holidays and family bonding compounded that. I hope you don't mind my asking, but my mindset was that I was going to be in a really good place financially before having kids. I've purposefully waited until I'm in a good job, in a good sized house etc. and I didn't want to have as many kids because of the poverty I experienced. Do you mind my asking why you decided to have three kids in a flat, given our shared experiences? I'm trying to not sound judgemental, I am genuinely interested in your perspective

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CraftyCat65@reddit

You know what? I grew up as the "well off" kid. We had vintage cars, boats, a big house in the country, a second home abroad. I chose so spend the vast majority of my teenage years at the house of my best friend. A perfectly ordinary 3 bed council house, filled to the brim with 2 adults, 4 kids still at home and the 3 who'd already left frequently visiting with their toddlers. It was chaotic, noisy and as messy as should be expected with the number of people sharing the space. Money was short and it showed. I'll tell you what wasn't short though - love. And warmth and laughter and being allowed to be "you". They drew me in, treated me as one of their own (I even spent Christmas with them on several occasions) and cared for me unconditionally in a way that my own family never did. Even as a young teen I knew that money doesn't equal happiness. When I grew up and had my own kids, I kept those lessons alive. I've always worked but we're not even moderately wealthy. My kids' friends were always at ours though.

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stinkypoocow@reddit

Sounds like youre a good parent. I do wonder why people have more than one child if they then stress about the quality of living of their + children. Seems sort of preventable and ridiculous

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bonkerlad@reddit

You should be incredibly proud to own a property in London, you have no idea how many people would give absolutely anything to be in your situation. You should instil that through process in your kids minds. It doesn’t matter what their friends think, we all have our own paths and can’t compare. They’re lucky to have a parent that cares so much. You’re incredibly nice to even have self doubt. You’re doing much better than a lot of the population, be grateful and don’t overthink. The kids will understand it themselves when they’re older. :)

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Nicebutdimbo@reddit

I lived in a big house growing up, it never once occurred to me that someone’s house was smaller or not as nice, I was just happy to play with my friends and explore a new environment. As long as the place isn’t really dirty/messy, I don’t think it’s an issue. Being a student is still to come for all of these kids and that is probably going to be a lot worse.

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LizLizard29@reddit

i was sometimes the “poor” friend but it’s always in relation to someone else. ya know? In reality their are people struggling more than you ever will and visa versa. Keep all that in perspective. You are rich in love and family and obviously have a big heart. That will matter more in the end then if you had a big enough house or whatever.

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WheresMyAbs98@reddit

If you own you’re own property you’re doing better than most of us.

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peanut_dust@reddit

You prioritised holidays over having a home that's not grotty?

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guzusan@reddit

I can only speak from experience as a kid. I had very wealthy friends and very poor friends. I simply didn’t think about it, I wasn’t really aware at all about it being rich vs poor. Just different. I was just going to my mate’s house to have a good time. The wealthy one felt like more of a treat with more things to do, but we just made do with whatever we had and it never, ever felt like we were missing out.

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Choconuttynutnut@reddit

The bricks of a house/flat don’t make a home. When I was younger it didn’t matter what my friends houses were like but it did matter how warm and inviting their parents are.

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Maxi-Moo-Moo@reddit

Try to be kind to yourself you've done amazing. Kids don't see things the way we do and I'm sure your kid understands that you'll be moving. If his friend is a good friend they won't care as long as there is WiFi, snacks, fizzy drinks and the chance for a late night. If you can set them up in the living room, quilts, TV, snacks, pizza, gaming etc and they will have a blast.

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ara131316@reddit

Children in Gaza don’t have lives or the innocence of childhood, think of those that have less than you and teach that to your kids, you’ve got more than the whole world and have given them a better life than you had so you’re winning already, keep your head up

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Careless_Count7224@reddit

I remember being about his age and my mate turned up to school in his dad's convertible Ferrari and parked next to my mum's Ford Fiesta. It's all fleeting and in the moment (any embarrassment) as the reality is that it doesn't matter. Later on in life it's good to get on with people from all backgrounds. Don't stress it (I know that's easier said than done).

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Purple_Kidneys@reddit

I was the poor kid in my friend group, council house on a council estate. They had bigger houses and massive estates. Never even thought about it back then, but my house was the one people came to, it was homely and mum was always there to make them feel welcome. Also we didnt mind messy games, if something broke we got the super glue out and mum would laugh it off. The home is about the atmosphere - not the size 👍

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cloudmountainio@reddit

I don’t think their friends will notice/care? They’ll care more about what snacks you have and if they feel welcome. When I was a teen we were always in eachothers houses. Some of my friends had beautiful big houses. My house was small and on a council estate, but tended to be the one everyone gravitated to because my mum cooked everyone dinner and had good snacks 😂. One time my best mate stayed for like 2 weeks, basically just moved in, eventually our mums had to request she go home for a bit as was getting weird. But yeah there was always someone round / sleeping over or whatever. Our friend with the biggest / poshest house, we rarely went because her mum was really OTT and controlling. Couldn’t even have a bag of crisps when you were there. Watched you like a hawk the whole time. And was just generally cold towards us all. Don’t be so hard on yourself. Owning any property in London is a massive achievement with the property prices around here! Your son isn’t embarrassed about your home or he wouldn’t be inviting people 😊

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PagodNaAkoooo@reddit

You went from sleeping on the streets to owning a home in a safe part of London. That isn't letting them down, that is a superhero origin story. Be proud of how far you climbed.

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Ok-Ship812@reddit

Exactly. Put all those other parents in your shoes and see if they'd have their 1m pound houses or still be destitute.

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smackdealer1@reddit

When I was 23 my mum bought my aunt's car off her and gave it to me. I didn't expect her to say "sorry it isn't a flashy car like your cousin has" when she gave me the keys. Here she gave me a privilege not afforded to most and she's fucking sorry it isn't a sports car. Comparison truly is the thief of joy. Btw my family is stable while my cousins family is rocky af. Their parents have separated like 6 times and they fix their issues by throwing money at it. Mine just have a functioning dynamic.

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poptimist185@reddit

Interesting you say he ‘admitted’ he’s embarrassed. Did you press him for that information? I suspect you worry about it much more than your kids. That said, our family also outgrew our house and in the end we just moved. Space became the priority, and in the end it was probably the right decision.

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EunosLuke@reddit

I don't think house sizes are even something that came to mind as a kid, I was more interested in seeing whatever my friend wanted to show me or doing whatever we'd planned to do

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RiverTadpolez@reddit

There will always be someone who has more than you. While it can hurt if you feel like EVERYONE else has more than you, ultimately you can't protect your children from inequality and from feeling envious of others. It might help your children to get involved in volunteering to help people less fortunate than them, so that they can see that their peers' wealth is not representative of how most people live, and that actually your family are somewhere in the middle. You could also model to them gratitude for what you have relative to others. Also, I wonder if you can relate to this: I grew up relatively poor without a lot of things. This made me feel quite low about myself at times, when I compared what I had to my peers. As an adult, I'm still quite poor, however, I got to discover and explore loads of things for the first time. First time staying in a hotel, or going on an aeroplane, having a good new coat, having a bedroom etc.etc. Lots of things that seem normal to some people, I really treasure, feel grateful for, and enjoy. I used to work in a school in a wealthy area, and I found a lot of the children to already be kind of... Bored of life, or not easily impressed. They had already travelled to far away places, and had basically all they wanted in terms of material possessions. I think, in some ways, one of the upsides to have less is that it allows to ENJOY more in life, as your world is initially quite limited but has the potential to slowly expand outwards, rather than the whole world being handed to you on a plate from birth.

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Ok-Instruction-3806@reddit

Hello! I was one of those kids growing up- although I'm not English, I'm Greek. I grew up in Athens, Greece, upoer middle class and went to a very expensive private school there, and during middle school I felt like "the poor kid", despite my family doing very good for themselves. At school, most kids were upper class (the kind with houses abroad, their parents went to that same school, houses with 5+ bedrooms and massive gardens in the most expensive part of the city). Neither of my parents are from Athens, and they both went to public school growing up. They made their way to Athens and ended up with two flats there (one in the center - not a cheap area but not a crazy expensive one either, and one in the suburbs near the sea, although that was a tiny 2 bedroom that we only used in the summer). My parents prioratised travel and our education above all. I was extremely embarassed, both by our house, the fact that my parents aren't from Athens and wentnto public school, the fact that we went for skiing in France instead of Switzerland (you realise how ridiculous this sounds) As someone who went through this: it's not on you. Even if you did have a better/more modern flat, your kid would then compare themselves to the kids who have a bigger one, or a townhouse. And if you had those, then your kid would compare with those kids who have a house in the countryside. He's thirteen, he can't see clearly, but give it another three years and he'll get over it and realise just how lucky he is. What can help is if you don't necessarily "sit him down" for a talk, but rather talk at the dinner table with your husband about how you grew up, and the things you have now that you didn't when you were a kid. It might knoc some sense into him without pitting him in the "hot seat"- at least that's what my parents did.

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HighwayEconomy579@reddit

You sound like a responsible and level headed parent, and all we can do is give our kids a happy and safe childhood. That’s the most important thing and It sounds like that’s what you’re doing. That’s what your son will remember when he’s older. Try not to compare your situation to others.

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imtheorangeycenter@reddit

Some of my best memories were at my friend's house that had three teenage boys sharing a bedroom, no downstairs central heating and an outside loo (they had an indoor one, too though). I thought nothing of it - other than we got to eat a lot of fish fingers, hurrah :) This was in the middle of the 90s, not the 50s.

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The-Jelly-Fox@reddit

You adjust your values and ground yourself in what’s really important, and you pass those values on to your kids. Do you have a good relationship with your kids? Is your family safe and well cared for? Are your kids friends nice to him and has he found genuine friendships with his peers? Are your kids engaged in activities that they enjoy and find purpose in? At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter how big your kitchen is or whether your kid has their own room. What matters is that they have good relationships with their family and friends, that they are happy in life with what they have, and see value in life beyond what they have. When your kid an adult he is going to remember the amazing vacations you took and the time you spent as a family. He’s not gonna care about the “grotty” apartment. Better that than a massive kitchen and being ignored by your parents because they are working all the time.

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Training-Party-9813@reddit

We lived in an ex council flat as our first home. I felt like the poor person among my son’s peers and families but his friends didn’t care we lived in a flat while they had their big houses. It was more my issue thinking we’d be judged more than my son. He didn’t care! Sounds like you’re doing a good job parenting. It’s never easy no matter what you earn or where you live!

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foregonemeat@reddit

I totally relate. I earn well and live in a two bed flat with both my kids. It’s insanely expensive and I just get by on what others would say is a really good salary. You are doing your best. And that alone should be enough. Stop feeling guilty. You’re winning. (I am really also trying to tell myself this)!

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Herne_KZN@reddit

I was a scholarship kid at an eye-wateringly expensive school. It mattered…somewhat in the immediate term. I couldn’t go on holidays with my classmates, talking about what we’d done over the weekends was always a bit tricky. In the long-term though it’s mattered a lot less. The people I got on with then, I still get on with (and for many of them I’ve found out more about the other difficulties that had at the time that I didn’t know then). I get that he feels embarrassed but uneasiness and feeling that you’re standing out is the ground state for all teenagers. There may be kids who’re insensitive or cunty about it, but if it weren’t the house they’d be that way about something else. Your responsibilities are longer term than your son’s immediate discomfort. Financial stability over the longer term will have more positive effects than an unwise house-move now.

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dX_iIi_Xb@reddit

Just be you and demonstrate the loving, thoughtful, and dedicated person you seem to be - it'll be far more homely than a lot of well-maintained family houses.

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Shadow-Inversions@reddit

I'm in your position. My kids are 5, 12 and 14. The only thing I've found which works at all is developing a sense of humour about it. That may sound dismissive but I really did feel just like you for many years, until I made a joke of it, brushed off comments and tried not to obsess about the things about our living arrangements I couldn't change. Kids seem to loving coming over here, I make sure they go home fed and happy, and I think once you've done it a few times you and your child will be less self conscious. Easier said, I know.

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Ill-Breadfruit5356@reddit

Your kids have a loving family home. They have parents who care about them, provide for them, take them on holidays and defer big things like moving home to prioritise their children’s best interests. Yes, parents who make mistakes and regret some choices, but show me one who doesn’t. Your kids are rich in a way that many of their friends won’t be, and in a way that sadly the world often doesn’t appreciate. But don’t be hard on yourself for doing your best

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Savanarola79@reddit

I grew up relatively poor and have done even worse than my parents. So you're doing better than some.

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Powerful_Balance3958@reddit

I feel you. I grew up poor, do well now, and housing wise are in a 'better' situation than yourself (just), but even then it's crazy how little we actually get/do around here (also London) with two good salaries. If I could do it all again, I wouldn't have even considered coming here. Our kids aren't old enough yet, but I'll definitely try and lean into the arguments around status games etc, and how material stuff isn't the be all and end all. It's probably an impossible task, it took me until my mid 30s to get over it myself.

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Curiousinsomeways@reddit

You take a deep breath and get a grip, it's on you to power through or shame ends up being passed on. Your experience is very common.

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