Why would Nvidia hamstring their own very popular GPU line by switching to a subpar node with their Ampere generation?
Not saying I fully believe the rumor, just stating that it's not a totally implausible suggestion.
Yeah, the Chinese overtaking Taiwan we're told to happen the next Monday morning since the 1970s …
Even announcing another round of *»This is the year of the Linux-Desktop going mainstream«* has more credibility to it, and actually is becoming reality rather sooner than later, thanks to Valve's Steam now, also their SteamDeck.
----
Intel just dug up that age-old Taiwain-spectre, to scare investors and governments into submission for subsidies, and y'all damn fools all bought readily into nonsense and manifested a threat, China really couldn't care about less.
China has a host of other problems — Taking out Taiwan, will inevitably result in vaporizing it for EVERYONE, which wouldn't help Peking/Beijing one bit anyway to begin with. It's a futile undertaking and they know it.
Every year there's new rumors about AMD using Samsung for their 4nm and 3nm node, and then people like you always say the same comments like this, and then it never ends up happening. But then a new Samsung node gets announced, and the cycle repeats.
*Sigh.*
> Because AMD has significantly more understanding and insight regarding the processes involved, than random gamers?
Dude, don't you think such a assessment is a 'lil bit too much to drop casually?! o.*0*
*This is Reddit!* 90% of users here are armchair-generals or virtual CEOs, who actually know their sh!t …
Are you sure? Google AI says
"Nvidia is heavily invested in 2nm chip technology, planning its next-generation "Feynman" AI architecture on this advanced process node via TSMC, targeting mass production around late 2026 or 2027, following its current "Rubin" (3nm) chips, with its cuLitho tech aiding the shift for improved efficiency and speed, aiming to maintain leadership in AI hardware despite rivals also targeting 2nm"
Google AI wouldn't lie would it? ;)
AI has fuzzy memory like humans. The way attention works in AI is based on context. Certain keywords increase or decrease certain likelihoods.
Vague prompts increase the likelihood of a hallucinated response.. In my screenshot you can tell it also provided the picture of Nvidia's official roadmap. This is called grounding.
Can't trust AI 100% time just how you can't trust humans 100% of time.
Yeah I didn't give it much of a prompt :) "nvidia 2nm"
I've been playing with local AI on a ubuntu box with a 5090. I built it earlier this summer to get myself up to speed on all of this, especially just trying to understand how it all works. It's quite fascinating. I still have much to learn but seeing it in action, setting up a local LLM, comfy, etc.. I remember I asked it to code me a raytracer and the dam thing did. It even made changes to the code when I requested. I was amazed. Also just unplugging it from the internet and asking one of the LLM models questions about things and having that "oh shit it doesnt need the internet to know things" moment was fun :)
I have a lot to learn but I'm really happy i went through the effort of setting up an ubuntu machine just to play with AI and the open stuff out there.
I believe
For N2; APPL A20/M6, NVDA Feynman, INTL Nova Lake
For N2P; APPL A21, MTEK 9600, QCOM SDE8G6, AMD Venice
AVGO, MRVL, AMZN, MSFT, GOOG have also volume contracts for n2/n2p production with several SKUs in bring up already.
AMD only ever claimed N2, which is interesting because Mediatek had no problem specifying N2P, though IIRC their original press release *also* only had "N2".
Given that AMD seems like they will launch their N2 products the earliest, I think they might be on N2 rather than N2P, but who knows. The differences between the two nodes seem very minor anyway.
Perhaps this would make more sense if this wasn't:
* just a rumor
* no mention on whether this was for CCDs or IODs
* being fabbed at Samsung which has a horrendous track record
But sure.
Interesting. Yet, I am quite certain the people at AMD and Samsung (or TSMC for that matter) still have significantly more understanding and insight regarding the processes involved than random terminally online gamers. Just a hunch.
We’re not allowed to discuss this rumor as mere enthousiasts frequenting a forum about hardware? Why do you think AMD would move EPYC to SF2 instead of N2?
You're allowed to discuss the rumor. I am also allowed to point these discussions are way beyond the pay grade of a lot of people in this sub.
FWIW Designs for 2nm generation are already in production, so that ship has long sailed.
Samsung's roadmap does, however, align neatly with some of AMD's monolithic-die roadmap as well, so for future designs the rumor makes a bit of sense.
>You're absolutely allowed to discuss the rumor. I am also allowed to point these discussions are way beyond the pay grade of a lot of people in this sub.
I'm just baffled why you brought it up if you seem like you *agree* with the premise of the original comment anyway, other to just dunk on gamers? Lol.
>FWIW Designs for 2nm generation are already in production,
Only 18A and Samsung 2nm, both of which are likely not on par with TSMC's 2nm node. Meaning calling them part of the "2nm generation" is a stretch.
> I'm just baffled why you brought it up if you seem like you agree with the premise of the original comment anyway, other to just dunk on gamers? Lol.
It's their pastime.
Your own recent posts are out of touch even if you claim authority because you're a director.
These Samsung foundry rumors are like Intel foundry rumors. I'll believe it when I see it.
>Interesting. Yet, I am quite certain the people at AMD and Samsung (or TSMC for that matter) still have significantly more understanding and insight regarding the processes involved than random terminally online gamers. Just a hunch.
Maybe. However, that may be why u/heylistenman is asking why AMD is rumored to be switching foundries, to get insights from people more involved in the industry than random gamers.
This is just a meaningless appeal to authority with no logical backing. Plus, any decision to make chips in Samsung, whether they turn out true or not, will also involve non-technical factors like cost. They could very well choose to go with a subpar process if it is way cheaper. Beancounters often hold significant decision-making power.
And historically Samsung has had a number quality issues versus the having the same architecture made at TSMC, so these concerns are pretty fair.
Vertical integration in CPU/GPU/memory is now the hottest thing. Amd wants one contractor to provide all the comments and and can have a streamline input in the entire stack without delays in communication
Gives them more leverage in negotiating prices with TSMC, also could be looking at Samsung as a second source; AMD is probably doing enough volume now in the datacenter market that they can justify the costs of adapting their design to Samsung's fabs, and then use the Samsung chips for lower end datacenter products.
FWIW that is not necessarily how prices are negotiated between designers and foundries.
The roadmap has more effect, and TSMC, Samsung, or Intel being in the picture is rarely used to drive prices lower.
Sure competition among fabs and packagers may set the ballpark of costs. But designers rarely use the threat of going with a different process to get a lower/better price from TSMC, Samsung, etc.
If AMD is going w Samsung it is likely because Samsung's roadmap may align w AMD requirements for a specific design.
The reason why this news may be unlikely is that AMD does not have an stablished silicon team with Samsung (that I am aware of). And that usually is how you can tell any type of significant volume from a large design team is going to be on a given foundry.
However Samsung does have a very nice roadmap for the type of large dies AMD has in their pipeline for their monolithic SoCs (mainly their APUs and GPUs). So there could be some alignment there.
For the CCDs and IO chiplets + 3D cache, it seems AMD is very aligned with TSMC and the packaging flow there.
I understand dual sourcing for lower end SKUs, but the article makes it sound like the entire new Epyc line is moving to SF2, a very likely worse node than N2. This would impact the performance and potentially allow Intel to close the gap further, so I’m struggling to understand why. If this article is true, there could be something off about N2.
>I understand dual sourcing for lower end SKUs, but the article makes it sound like the entire new EPYC line is moving
Which makes no sense because AMD already confirmed that Venice will be fabbed, at least for some part of it, on TSMC 2nm.
>SF2, a very likely worse node than N2
You are probably right, but the article also mentions SF2P, which very well could be Samsung's next real node jump after SF2 having very minimal PPA benefits over SF3 GAP.
So maybe they could catch up to TSMC 3nm rather than being decently worse than it, as they currently are.
>This would impact the performance and potentially allow Intel to close the gap further, so I’m struggling to understand why.
TBF I doubt Intel and Samsung are going to be in much different places if Venice is fabbed on SF2P and DMR on 18A, and AMD's design side also just gaps Intel's, so they could still win at what could be considered node parity.
Most analysts have AMD as a top 5 TSMC customer, and Venice is a flagship product from AMD.
It's hard to believe Mediatek can tap TSMC N2P for their next smartphone chips, but AMD couldn't for their high margin server CPUs?
AMD already announced they taped out Venice on TSMC 2nm back in April.
[https://www.amd.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2025-4-14-amd-achieves-first-tsmc-n2-product-silicon-milesto.html](https://www.amd.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2025-4-14-amd-achieves-first-tsmc-n2-product-silicon-milesto.html)
If they use Samsung at all, It is probably going to be something else. That said, there are going to be Zen 6 EPYC SKUs that use different chiplets (there are at least two chiplet variants). So it is possible that "Venice" is referring to a family of CPUs and there could be some Samsung based SKU in there. But I think it is more likely that this headline is wrong, and AMD is contemplating Samsung for a different product.
I/O die only makes sense if they are getting wafers cheap as they don't benifit from the leading node density as much, but they may like it for low power. Midrange GPU would make sense. One of the mid/low end APUs would make sense too. PS6 handheld or even the main console APU could potentially work as well, but that would require consistent parametric yields since they don't have opportunities for performance binning.
> as they don't benifit from the leading node density as much, but they may like it for low power.
AMD has been wanting to jump up to DDR5-9000 for a while if you've been reading the tea leaves/what comes out of their PHY guy via AGESA update, but the I/O die simply isn't up to the task as currently built. Jumping up to 2nm for a faster switching frequency and just adding a <profanity> load of transistors to make it less fragile solves that problem adequately.
Moving from TSMC's 2nm process to Samsung's 2nm would likely be a big downgrade. I believe AMD would have to compromise on frequency, power efficiency, or yield and even in the worst case it has to tweak the architecture.
I thought Venice was old news a long time ago.
[https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-3800-plus-venice/](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-3800-plus-venice/)
Athlon 64 3000+ was my first CPU that I got brand new. I upgraded from a very ageing Pentium 133MHz. 8 years of new releases brought 13.5x of clock speed increase as well as a lot more instruction sets. Now my current PC is on an over 9 years old platform...
I remember that specific article! What a trip down the memory-lane … Thanks for this!
> Advanced Micro Systems (AMD) has released a new revision of their Athlon64 S939 […]
*Oh dear, the glorious socket 939 and its Athlon 64* — Makes me a bit melancholic already.
*That was the time to be alive*. That was true journalism at heart from enthusiasts!
Explaining every short and abbreviation with the respective written-out long version and bringing out pieces for actual hardware-hits (instead of today's hit-pieces over the next refresh-cycle), where you could readily feel the joy of the editors themselves writing the article, describing new hardware between the lines.
Not the nonsense clickbait sh!t we have to day, which fabricate news around a single ~~Twitter~~ *~~X~~* *Twix*-post from some leaker no-one knows anyway …
Back then, you could go days, not seldom even a week without a single hardware-news, and no-one bat an eye, as it was only fueling anticipation and building up anticipatory excitement.
I still remember being excited about getting a Denmark (opteron 165) and OCing it like crazy.
Those were the days...
today's CPUs a way better and way more boring. Almost zero point to OCing.
Doesn't really make much sense given it'll go against their super successful scaling strategy with their CPU products. They cant just swap TSMC for Samsung chiplets and have everything all work out the same because they're designing these Epyc packages based on a very specific die size for the CCD's. This makes scaling super easy for them in so many ways.
Adding in some new CCD based on a wholly different process tech seems like it would throw everything out of whack, no?
They've never done anything like this before. They've always had the same process tech for all CCD's of the same type. Dense/C versions are a bit different, but those are also a strategically produced different line. You wouldn't do that just for a different process technology.
> They cant just swap TSMC for Samsung chiplets and have everything all work out the same because they're designing these Epyc packages based on a very specific die size for the CCD's.
Hasn't they've done so before already? AFAIK a bunch of CCXs were dual-sourced (TSMC, Samsung) and AMD even opted for *a three-pronged strategy* on sourcing (TSMC, Samsung, GlobalFoundries) for a single design of their CCXs (Ryzen, Threadripper, Epyc), no?
> They've always had the same process tech for all CCD's of the same type, for all ranges of CPU's of that architecture.
You think that Samsung's and GlobalFoundries' 14nm back then were identical down to the last bits?
Yes, they were the same process, but GloFo surely made quite a bit of custom tweaks on their own, don't you think?
This is about CPU's, where AMD is currently the top dog.
Much like how Nvidia used Samsung for Ampere GPU's while still being competitive, it's possible AMD could utilize Samsung for Zen 6 and still be very competitive. Especially because AMD's whole chiplet scaling strategy is still a lot more cost effective than Intel's messy bullshit.
> Especially because AMD's whole chiplet scaling strategy is still a lot more cost effective than Intel's messy bullshit.
Still baffles me how Intel can't let go of their big-die philosophy, tanking their margins and destroying yields that way since years while even crippling their overall volume — Still times higher manufacturing-cost than AMD.
It definitely feels like an ego thing that they didn't just copy Ryzen's super successful and ultimately quite straightforward chiplet scaling strategy.
> It definitely feels like an ego thing …
Well, yeah. It definitely IS a ego-thing for Intel — They called them *Tiles* purely out of spite.
Since you can't just call basically the very same what your competitor has, the same name, can you?
That's not how Intel rolls nor would have ever done anyway, even if doing so, would've saves them a lot of engineering-pain in the arse, even more teething-problems and cost them years of falling back behind their only lone competitor …
Truth be told, Intel's *Tiles* are basically in essence just Copy-Pasta: *A botched Copy'nPaste-job from AMD's chiplets*, yet relabeled as 'Tiles', just for Intel trying to pretend to have their "own" chiplet-esque implementation, even if it's basically the very same …
Wanna hear a joke? When Intel back then around 2018 out of the blue announced their heterogenous *Mix and Match*-stuff (pretending, they'd already worked a decade on this by then), the actual effing PowerPoint-slides actually didn't even incorporated anything called 'Tiles' — *Called them* ***chiplets****!*
Yet some big weak weasel's ego was hurt in Santa Clara, and they renamed it *Tiles* shortly afterwards.
http://web.archive.org/web/20210923105815/https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2018/08/monolithic-vs-heterogeneous-infographic.pdf
> … just copy Ryzen's super successful and ultimately quite straightforward chiplet-scaling strategy.
They joke is, due to both of them share a cross-patent agreement, Intel even would've had access to AMD's patented stuff over everything chiplets — Chances are Santa Clara chose not to over license-fees, or spite …
*That's how you're f–cked over by your own ego* — Rather throw years of potential lead into the gutter, instead of even *thinking* about having to share some meager percentage of profits of yours with others.
That's Intel for you. A bunch of braggarts and loud-mouths, wo always think they can do and know better, yet fail nigh every single time and still can't bring themselves to be humble for once …
Well, I think Intel at least *tried* to copy AMD's chiplet-paradigm helplessly for the last couple of years …
It seems that Intel was taken totally by surprise on anything Chiplets and got caught with their pants down (again), when AMD brought it this quick to market, when having worked on them for a decade plus.
Though IF Intel would already worked on anything *disintegrated silicon* for said 10 years by then (like Intel claimed when announcing their heterogenous '*Mix and Match*'-approach around 2018), *Intel would* ***not*** *have needed +6 years for finally reaching a fairly comparable design-approach* only half a decade later in 2023 with Meteor Lake (also Arrow Lake, Sapphire Rapids, Ponte Vecchio).
Since sure enough, all these disintegrated designs \*somehow\* brought Intel truly massive troubles engineering-wise and they had tremendous difficulties to overcome those for years — The years-long horror-stories over validation and dead-on silicon past tape-outs on *Sapphire Rapids* and *Ponte Vecchio* for example are testament to that … *Meteor Lake* was also everything but a performer.
----
The issue at hand for Intel was quite many-layered …
* Intel hardly knew how to do it (despite claiming otherwise for years). *Shocker!*
* Intel had no real equivalent to AMD's SuperGlue aka *Infinity Fabric*™
That's for sure the most striking one, obviously — The reason they had to wait for PCi-E 5.0 to become a thing, for "Intel's" *CXL* to finalize upon it (which in itself is basically just AMD's former *CCIX* in disguise as Copy-pasta anyway done out of spite).
* Intel haven't remotely had adopted a design-strategy by then, which would've offered so to speak "intelligent" chiplets/tiles, which could be freely thrown together randomly at will on a (PCi-E) bus (which AMD actually evidently can with their CCX and I/O-dies since ages).
So Intel's claims before the press in 2018, of already working on disintegrated silicon since years already (and that AMD *weren't* actually as spearheading as they became), was pure virtue-signaling, a blatant lie.
As a result, Intel's IP-blocks still remained virtually *dumb* (in the sense of *head*|*less*) for years on out afterwards and most of it had to be *re-engineered from scratch* in all this other trouble like lay-offs, down-sizing or Intel's road-maps being constantly thrown out again (only to start over once more).
The reason why AMD had a years-long edge on chiplets from the onset, was since Intel just couldn't place or handle the stuff as ***independent*** *IP-blocks* — Everything was grown intercoupled and -linked together.
AMD on the other hand already had a decade-long headstart, due to their already well-tuned modular concept of IP-blocks (building-block principle with IP-blocks to freely chose from) attuned for the console-era from back then for the console-contracts (those, Intel always made fun of since).
So Intel allegedly been working on chiplet-esque designs for years already, was utter bullsh!t, and that's actually the sole reason WHY Intel struggled so hard for years with anything Tiles — They started at 0.
AMD and TSMC have been pretty intimately close ever since AMD ditched global foundries. Also TSMC isn't too kind on companies that are unreliable partners, AMD just hopping to Samsung would be pretty shocking
It goes both ways. Iif TSMC provides capacity to their latest nodes to every company that asks for it, giving AMD less allocation, then AMD has to look elsewhere too to fill the gaps. Can't rely on any one company for everything.
If i had to guess AMD is probably looking to offload lower end and mobile SKU's to Samsung to save on costs and get more TSMC production dedicated to more important datacenter/mainstream silicon. so Samsung might take over APU silicon for desktop and mobile along with motherboard chipsets and maybe some entry level desktop GPU's and most laptop GPU's.
Yea, at best it's dual sourced, or maybe it's going to be used for the IODs, if Venice actually uses Samsung (which I doubt).
FWIW, another prominent (though I'm very dubious about how accurate he is) twitter leaker, jukon, thinks it is for the PS6.
IMO, this rumor ends up going nowhere. We went though similar things with Samsung 4 and 3nm.
77 Comments
heylistenman@reddit
Seanspeed@reddit
Strazdas1@reddit
Lord_Muddbutter@reddit
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
R-ten-K@reddit
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
GestureArtist@reddit
noiserr@reddit
GestureArtist@reddit
noiserr@reddit
GestureArtist@reddit
noiserr@reddit
GestureArtist@reddit
noiserr@reddit
GestureArtist@reddit
R-ten-K@reddit
GestureArtist@reddit
R-ten-K@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
R-ten-K@reddit
heylistenman@reddit
R-ten-K@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
ProfessionalPrincipa@reddit
ProfessionalPrincipa@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
fastheadcrab@reddit
Sopel97@reddit
Realistic-Nature9083@reddit
GenericUser1983@reddit
R-ten-K@reddit
heylistenman@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
dabocx@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
mr_invester@reddit
RetdThx2AMD@reddit
Moscato359@reddit
RetdThx2AMD@reddit
Strazdas1@reddit
Gwennifer@reddit
nezeta@reddit
Environmental-Map869@reddit
mr_invester@reddit
Intrepid_Lecture@reddit
Homerlncognito@reddit
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
Intrepid_Lecture@reddit
RealPjotr@reddit
Seanspeed@reddit
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
INITMalcanis@reddit
Lord_Muddbutter@reddit
OptimusTron222@reddit
Seanspeed@reddit
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
Seanspeed@reddit
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
juhotuho10@reddit
ResponsibleJudge3172@reddit
mr_invester@reddit
mca1169@reddit
Rayuzan_Mojavec@reddit
ResponsibleJudge3172@reddit
Prawira_81@reddit
PrimaryRecord5@reddit
Artistic_Unit_5570@reddit
Geddagod@reddit
OptimusTron222@reddit
Kryohi@reddit