I'm OOTL...what is the logical reasoning behind why RAM prices are going up?
Posted by Upset-Ad-8704@reddit | buildapc | View on Reddit | 440 comments
The explanation I keep hearing is about how AI needs a lot of RAM to run it. However, I thought this was actually vRAM, as in you need to load the large models into vRAM so that you can take advantage of the GPU acceleration.
As I understand it, regular RAM would only be useful in loading the model for CPU processing, which is significantly slower than GPU-run LLMs (to the point that it may not even be worthwhile trying to use CPU to run an LLM).
I assume I am wrong because everyone keeps saying that the RAM shortage is due to AI, but I would like to get a better understanding of what I am getting wrong.
Acceptable-Ad-9797@reddit
The better answer here is that it comes down to fab capacity. AI uses vram so fabs produce more vram, which eats into the capacity for regular ddr5.
Upset-Ad-8704@reddit (OP)
I feel like this answer makes the most sense to me for now, but the base assumption is that vRAM and RAM are created/manufactured by the same factory, which I wonder if it is the correct assumption.
Perhaps another explanation is that vRAM and RAM share similar precursors and due to high vRAM demand, the precursor demand has increased as well, which increases prices of RAM?
curiousdugong@reddit
RAM is a commodity. There’s only 3 main companies that produce well over 90% of all RAM (DRAM, VRAM, HBM, all of it) im the world.
AI can far outbid what consumers can reasonably pay for those companies to dedicate their production capacity towards their needs.
Eastern_Surround_115@reddit
Look at all the RAM company ball lickers. May I lick your balls, RAM companies??
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kester76a@reddit
AI can outbid but doesn't have sustainable model at the moment. They're signing checks backed by contracts they haven't got.
b_vitamin@reddit
They just need to juice the numbers for the quarterly report. Nobody invests for future earnings any more.
kester76a@reddit
This will break a few banks if it goes badly.
patped7@reddit
There will be a depression at this point, at least going off of how much of our GDP growth is now tied up in this morass.
Shadowraiden@reddit
it wont break a few banks...
tax payers are paying for this especially in USA where majority of tax will just bail out anything that goes wrong with AI bubble just like they did in 2008 so while all those involved and politicians get rich off the bubble every day person will be saddled with trillions of debt that they had no say in.
kester76a@reddit
It's tax payers money that's paying for AI now 😂
cactus22minus1@reddit
It will go badly for many because there are too many players gunning to be the sole winner of the race. They’re willing to take a risk that we will all have to pay for dearly.
kester76a@reddit
Hopefully the only ones that lose out are the ones it hurts the least. Still think the Bank of England are a bunch of untrustworthly muppets.
Mister__Mediocre@reddit
That's also wildly incorrect. AI being sold to customers may not be sustainable, but AI used to improve internal products (Youtube, Netflix, Maps, Search, Advertisement) etc is very very profitable, and is going to contribute to RAM demand for a decade to come.
f0nt@reddit
Doesn’t matter for RAM manufacturers, they can simply adjust their fabs
cactus22minus1@reddit
When it all goes wrong consumers will take the brunt force of the fallout. We won’t have money to be buying their goods as they sheepishly return to the market they helped destroy.
kester76a@reddit
I'm kind of hopeing someone fills the gap with multichannel memory.
Thulack@reddit
Ram makers don't matter where the money comes from or what happens after the money goes away.
kester76a@reddit
Corruption runs deep in the ram industry.
PhotoProxima@reddit
If you combine how much money companies would actually need to bring in to break even (it's like $30 / month from every iPhone user in the world) plus the circular deals Nvidia keeps doing... This is the biggest bubble in the history of the world.
semidegenerate@reddit
True, but major world governments are throwing their weight behind it, which factors into the calculation. Namely, the US and China.
slyfox279@reddit
To what end? If no one can buy electronics who are they selling ai services to?
jjk0010@reddit
Lend lease basically was a thing, so wouldn't be surprised if some form of loaning the tech would be out of the option.
slyfox279@reddit
the companies making consumer electronics can't get much ram. and ai companies aren't going make consumer electronics. ai is just ruining everything. social media is full of fake stupid videos and pictures, its make up lies about people and now its making electronics unaffordable. lap top companies are talking about going back to 8gb of ram, next it'll be 4gb ram, but modern os need more then 8gb. seems ai is forcing society backwards to early 90s and late 80s. who knows in 10 years we might see laptops with Kbs of ram.
Rapturence@reddit
Fr are laptop companies seriously considering going back to 8gb? Fuck that noise. Guess it's time to hold on to my laptop and phone for the long haul. Screw AI.
slyfox279@reddit
on plus side it seems chatgpt is suffering so bad they now putting ads into even paid membership use. hopefully that won't solve their cash flow problem and they go out of business and then one less ai company screwing us over.
dragonblade_94@reddit
Never assume any particular company is concerned with long-term societal impact and what that might mean for the market. Their concern is making sure the present quarter ends higher than the last.
slyfox279@reddit
we really need laws to bring corporations under control otherwise they run themselves out of business in long term.
danwin@reddit
Consumer electronics don’t require much ram, especially to access cloud services that host AI
slyfox279@reddit
basic phones have 8-12gb, laptops 12-16gb. unless your suggesting Samsun and apple are going ruin their phones to appease ai companies. just web browsing has required more and more ram and apps use more every year too. that ram is getting super expensive now.
RiloxAres@reddit
Governments, other companies
theroguex@reddit
Fuck them being able to outbid. I fucking hate that we can't legislate to prevent this sort of thing from happening because some billionaires and the people they've brainwashed think that businesses should have the right to operate without regulation.
Shit like this should not be allowed.
CorrectPeanut5@reddit
The RAM industry is also well known for price fixing as well. I think over my lifetime I've had three different class action checks for price fixing. There is demand, but that demand can be used to mask some egregious behavior.
Emerald_Flame@reddit
They are. There are basically only 3 companies that actually make RAM, literally every type of RAM. Samsung, Micron, and SK Hynix.
Sketusky@reddit
There is also Goodram in Europe.
Emerald_Flame@reddit
Goodram doesn't produce actual DRAM chips.
Just like Kingston, Corsair, or anyone else that sells RAM, all they're doing is buying the chips from someone like Samsung, Micron, or SK, then putting those chips on the PCB, and maybe slapping a cooler on it and doing some branding/marketing.
The latest numbers I can find are showing that the 3 I mentioned account for 92% of all DRAM chip production. For that last 8% CXMT (China) makes up 5%, Nanya makes up 2%, and a bunch of tiny fabs mostly for R&D or highly custom items are making up that last 1%.
xenmorphic@reddit
Add onto this the fact that HBM generally consumes more wafer per shippable / usable bit, HBM also requires more complex processes the stack/package and then server DDR5 is currently a way for fabs to effectively just print money, you end up with bottlenecks from increased HBM production (which takes longer as stated above) & a high demand and drive for server DDR5 and thus, consumer chips get pushed to the back.
alloDex@reddit
The precursor you’re looking for, the building block for RAM, VRAM, HBM, SSDs is all the same thing, called a NAND chip. Samsung, SK Hynix and Micron actually manufacture NAND chips and sell those in bulk to other businesses (they, of course, package and sell them as consumer products too). These NAND chips are then put together with other components to make RAM, VRAM, HBM, SSDs, etc.
kragar@reddit
Ok, minor thread necromancy to reply to this at all, almost two months later. But NOR and NAND are non-volatile memory, used in flash storage. They are not in fact used in RAM. So not the common precursor.
KarmaPoliceT2@reddit
It's not just the mfg aspect (though that is probably the biggest)... It's also that every system built with these fancy VRAM/HBM kits ALSO require system DRAM... nVidia's best practice guidance is 2-2.5x the amount of VRAM/HBM in system ram...
So if a systems has 8x RTX 6000 Pro cards in it (we'll stay away from the HBM ones for simplicity but it's similar)... Then you need 768GB of VRAM and 1.9TB of DDR5 (or 4) for the system. A rack can hold 10+ of these systems, so a single rack might consume 200TB of memory chips... AI Datacenters are deploying literally dozens (maybe even hundreds) of racks a day right now with this kind of equipment... So it adds up fast.
And remember I ignored HBM, that's because the density numbers get even larger and so the above numbers are very very much on the low end.
Source: I worked for SambaNova and Tenstorrent designing Datacenters for their customer's AI training/inferencing deployments. I've seen this first hand.
waterfall_hyperbole@reddit
Maybe consider checking it? Instead of just making shit up
PeanutNore@reddit
They're etched on the same silicon wafers by the same lithography machines. A fab that makes memory could pretty easily be making any other kind of integrated circuit. It all comes down to how the fab owners allocate time and space within their fabs.
DaEccentric@reddit
vRAM and RAM are quite similar at the circuit level. Both utilize DRAM circuitry, where each cell is a simple 1-Transistor-1-Capacitor (1T-1C) circuit. The thing is that using capacitors requires specialized fabrication steps which cannot be easily replicated in normal fabs, and the 3 companies others have mentioned really do supply most of the world's DRAM.
So yeah, Occam's razor is actually correct. It's AI buying everything out, just like with GPUs.
Delicious-Ad2562@reddit
No the bottleneck is always fab capacity. Cutting edge lithography is super complicated and while precursor supply is important, it’s much easier to buy more chemicals/wafers than it is to set up new fabs which regularly takes 5+ years to do.
Financial_Sport_6327@reddit
Specifically it's HBM. The tooling used for HBM is the same as for DDR, but the margins are like 10x, so it makes no financial sense to even produce DDR. Also, memory is basically cartel land, there's only like 3 companies in the world that actually make it.
elonelon@reddit
samsung, skhynix, and micron ?
Kastergir@reddit
Well, micron is out of the Game for the consumer market . No more Crucial SSDs and RAM .
Micron is killing Crucial SSDs and memory in AI pivot — company refocuses on HBM and enterprise customers
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/dram/micron-is-killing-crucial-ssds-and-memory-in-ai-pivot-company-refocuses-on-hbm-and-enterprise-customers
Empty_Instruction433@reddit
Micron were the worst anyway
nuenoxnyx@reddit
It's not just HBM. AI uses both HBM and DDR5 so it's a double sided supply and demand problem: more manufacturing capacity goes to HBM and the existing consumer grade DDR5 gets bought up. So just less DDR5 available for the average PC builder.
theroguex@reddit
I'm fucking done with this AI bullshit. I want all the AI companies to burn to the ground.
DHTabletopEmporium@reddit
Nothing good comes out of it, that's for sure. Art generation based on stolen property, text generation that still makes absurd amounts of mistakes, programming help that seems to create more and more problems in companies. And this huge boom where every single company tries to introduce AI to be "competetive".
I really hope this AI boom will flop, and do it soon!
fritzkoenig@reddit
There will be a time where you can find 1TB of RAM in the bin and it will be glorious
Kilroy898@reddit
Just got 2 to for $60
_Baccano@reddit
Of ram?
Thagyr@reddit
If/When the AI companies go belly up they'll be trying to sell their RAM for pennies I hope.
GrumpyKitten24399@reddit
AI companies will go belly up, but it could be years later, and more importantly they could be bought up by other AI companies, so you won't be getting any of that sweet sweet AI RAM. At least not anytime soon. This AI bubble can last up to 2030.
XxNitr0xX@reddit
Don't forget the terrible pollution that comes with the datacenters
YearTough6856@reddit
It basically reads all business communication (MS Teams), participates in projects like ChatGPT or Google and who knows where else it is inside already.
What could go wrong? Oh us poor humans...
Excellent_Brilliant2@reddit
just think of how cheap RAM and GPUs will be when a data center closes and all the servers are liquidated....
YearTough6856@reddit
I hve nightmares it will overrun humanity and we're just left as useless garbage
semidegenerate@reddit
Yes. Nanya (from Taiwan) is the runner up at number 4. China's CXMT and YMTC are up-and-comers, too.
bassbeater@reddit
I can't see anything listed for sale from Nanya though.
bofardeeznutz@reddit
Did you check in the wardrobe?
bassbeater@reddit
Nah just the sock drawer
semidegenerate@reddit
What u/Acceptable-Ad-9797 said.
The DIMM (stick) manufactures rarely explicitly say which ICs (chips) go on which DIMMs. So, when you buy from G.Skill, Kingston, Corsair, etc. you often have to go by context clues.
A 2x16GB 6000 30-36-36-76 1.35v kit is pretty much guaranteed to be Hynix A- or M-die. 2x16 6000 36-36-36-96 1.35v will likely be Samsung B-die. And so on.
It's a bit harder to tell which are Nanya, because there aren't a lot of high performance kits sold to the DIY market with Nanya ICs. Nanya's N16A dies are supposed to be able to do tighter timings at 6000MT/s than Hynix H16A, but good luck finding any.
bassbeater@reddit
Thanks for clarifying.
I'm just glad I decided to build before all this stuff happened.
Got some new GSkill Flares. 32gb. Hopefully when this problem resolves and I want to upgrade I'll be able to find 32 more.
Acceptable-Ad-9797@reddit
Usually chips and end products are not from the same company. Nanya is a fab like micron is a fab and crucial Was the consumer brand.
For another example look up the IO chips in first gen zen cpus where the fab was Global foundries, does that mean GF is selling Ryzen CPU’s?
bassbeater@reddit
🤔 you know? You're blowing my brain 🧠 right now
stupidtechjesus@reddit
God i hope we get more one day from anywhere
semidegenerate@reddit
That would be nice, but the costs to set up a fab are astronomical. You pretty much need to be an existing tech giant willing to take a huge gamble or be sponsored by a nation state.
wulfoftheorderofbio@reddit
Why have no American startups taken advantage of POTUS' rhetoric and pushed for the government to fund a in best stereotypical voice "'murica-made high-speed Memory stick made of gold and powered by true American grit (and coal-burning/diesel powered electricity)'"
FranciManty@reddit
cause they want consumer prices to stay up. the current us government inverted 500 billion dollars in ai companies, it's in their interest that people start getting subscriptions to grok gemini and chatgpt instead of making their own computer and using ai locally. i'm convinced this is 90% of the reason they drove prices up this much.
Absolut1l@reddit
It's actually just simple economics. Supple and demand... The FAB's shifted to more profitable HBM. The demand for consumer RAM didn't suddenly drop like the supply. Demand high, supply low.
Despite what people think, it is far more difficult to make theories like yours actually make sense. There's multiple companies, people, laws, regulations involved in these things. It's not like POTUS or some shady government organization can just rig up entire industries on a whim and keep it all secret.
FranciManty@reddit
brother. it’s 500 billion dollars dumped into the ai space with no interest or need to pay back. the point isn’t that they want to fuck up the market, but that spending money that comes out of thin air doesn’t contribute to an economy. ai companies aren’t profitable.
bliztix@reddit
It doesn’t happen overnight
elonelon@reddit
Awak gak kaget kalau tiba2 CCP langsung banjiri pasar DDR5 dengan sistem dump nya mereka.
semidegenerate@reddit
They are having problems with fabrication due to US embargoes. They aren't really at the level to flood the market right now. They can't get their hands on enough lithography machines, or parts for the existing ones.
longsdivision@reddit
Add to this a lithography machine designed for these types of products cost between 300-400 million with 100,000 parts.
For scale.
semidegenerate@reddit
Yeah, they're pricey. At least with DRAM production you can shop around a bit. For CPUs and GPUs you pretty much need to buy from ASML if you want a competitive node.
Either way, the costs are far from trivial.
theroguex@reddit
Honestly? I hope they suffer greatly when the AI bubble pops.
Kilroy898@reddit
It isnt popping... people have been saying it was gonna pop any second now for literally 3 years.
PualFromBoston@reddit
Sam Altman first
Burgschaft91@reddit
I second this. This massive push for AI is not going to be the outcome these companies think it is. Greed will eventually eat them alive. I also hope, when these douche nozzles, realize this and have to hire folks that were performing said jobs beforehand, they'll eat the cost that much more in labor. AI, being something that is fed information, and still the earlier stages, is prone to error.
Present-Resolution23@reddit
The AI bubble isn’t really going to pop the way yall seem to think… AI is a real asset and isn’t going anywhere, and as it evolves it only becomes more memory hungry… There is a bubble but in the same way that the internet was a real thing despite thousands of dotcom companies with inflated valuations, VCs are investing heavily in basically anything with the word AI attached to it, in the hope one will become the next “Google/Amazon” etc despite the odds..
So if/when memory prices come back down it’ll be due to the supply chain adjusting, not because of any “AI bubble” popping
Beginning_Moment6274@reddit
The problem is they will not suffer, while everyone else (re: you and I) indirectly will.
Any-Locksmith-9421@reddit
Bubble?
Governments are running a race for AI dominance, just USA recently announced a first round of 320$ milion funds for their Genesis mission.
There will be non stop AI escalation at least the next 4-6 years
Ippomasters@reddit
Everyone will, with tax payers paying for their electric.
StevenMcFlyJr1985@reddit
Crucial is in the top 5 my man
heyheyhey27@reddit
And didn't micron just pull out of the market?
Dziggettai@reddit
Only the consumer market, they’re selling exclusively to data centers now
TheOriginalKyotoKid@reddit
...another reason to loathe AI.
I pretty much need to win a lottery now to afford the upgrade for my ancient system to move to Win 11. On a fixed retirement income and the total cost for the parts I need jumped form around 960 USD to over 2,700. mainly due to memory and SSD prices (and that doesn't include a GPU I already have on).
Even DDR4 prices are going up.
On a fixed retirement pension and was trying to save what I could. Now there's no point
Dziggettai@reddit
Out of curiosity, what all did you have on your build list for it to jump that much? Even 64 GB of ddr5 and a 4tb ssd shouldn’t make that much of a difference and that much is already super overkill
doomed151@reddit
Wait I thought they only closed down the Crucial brand but still supply chips to RAM manufacturers like Kingston, Corsair, Teamgroup, etc.
Dziggettai@reddit
Afaik, all consumer and retail is done
doomed151@reddit
Hmm I couldn't find a source for that. Supplying chips to manufacturers is neither consumer nor retail, it's enterprise no? Kingston is the one doing consumer/retail stuff, not Micron.
Dziggettai@reddit
Then they may still supply to them, but they’re not selling crucial brand any more, that’s for certain
doomed151@reddit
That's what I said lol. I believe they're just stopping the Crucial brand but we can still get Micron chips in other brands.
iamshifter@reddit
Just out of the retail and consumer sectors
Data center, weaponized computing and government, and the like are all full steam ahead.
ProfessorKeaton@reddit
example of weaponized computing?
CoffeeWorldly9915@reddit
Do you know Palantir?
iamshifter@reddit
Troll/bot farms, automated surveillance, facial recognition databases and machine learning for that purpose, ai drone operations…
I’m sure plenty of other things we don’t know about too
wardin_savior@reddit
They shut down their first party consumer brand. They will still sell consumer chips to other brands.
spanglasaur@reddit
Supposedly. Who knows what will actually be available for other brands to purchase
Keyastis@reddit
What that means is, they currently have contracts with other brands that they have to fulfill, but once the contracts come up, don't bank on them being renewed. That is, if we keep going down this path.
RvLeshrac@reddit
The penalty calculation is inverted, don't count on them fulfilling their existing contracts if they pay a few million/billion but stand to make a few dozen million/billion.
Keyastis@reddit
Depends on the contract, but this is an accurate statement
iamshifter@reddit
Bingo. They are chasing that AI and Data center money while it’s hot.
0x2B375@reddit
It will be a non-zero amount but maybe not as much as before. The big tier 1 customers have defect per million (DPM) requirements in their contracts so there still needs to be a dumping ground for more questionable dies that might risk negatively impacting DPM metrics. Traditionally that means offloading them to companies like Kingston to turn around and sell to customers that are less quality sensitive. So there will still be that material available as a baseline.
JonInKC@reddit
Well, _that's_ sure nice to know... We're in good hands, then. :-(
StClawz@reddit
which market exactly are you talking about?
don't mix chip manufacturing and DRAM module manufacturing.
droson8712@reddit
And Micron is gone now for the consumer market
the_lamou@reddit
It's actually like 7 companies, but four of them are small enough that no one cares (Kingston, Kioxia, WD, and Nanya). But even if we assume 3, that has nothing to do with a "cartel." It's not even a natural monopoly or monopsony. They very much compete with each other, which is WHY there are only 3 big memory manufacturers.
Most people forget that just a short time ago, there actually used to be tens of memory companies. They don't exist anymore because most of them went out of business because memory is an absolutely terrible business. It's a largely undifferentiated product that's stupidly capital-intensive, has a very long return on capital window, and 9 years out of 10 the margins are functionally 0% after inflation. SK Hynix would make more money most of the time if they took all the capital they spent on building fabs and just dumped it into an index fund.
But occasionally, very very rarely, you have a year like this one (and next one) where demand skyrockets and you actually make profits worth caring about. The last time this happened, which was about 10-15 years ago, a bunch of smaller fabs decided the good times were going to last forever and dumped billions into new fabs... which were still being built by the time memory went back to commodity pricing and they all went bankrupt and got bought up for pennies on the dollar by the big three we know today.
That's why SK, Samsung, and Micron have all said they aren't dumping cash into accelerating capacity expansion: they only dominate the space because they understand how boom/bust cycles work and are conservative with capital.
Could they all spend $50 billion to build new plants/expand current ones? Sure. But those plants: 1. Wouldn't even break ground for at least 18 months. 2. Wouldn't be completed for at least 36 months. 3. Wouldn't start meaningful production for at least 42 months. 4. Wouldn't start producing a positive ROI for a minimum of 60 months, and really closer to 120 months (10 years).
If Samsung started planning a new fab today, it wouldn't meaningfully increase the amount of available memory on the market for FOUR YEARS. And in four years, all of the big new datacenters would be mostly finished and suddenly demand for memory would drop off a cliff and Samsung would be sitting there with its dick in its hand looking like an idiot and out several billion dollars. Building new fabs now is the equivalent of buying GameStop stock when it was $400/share.
And here's the proof that this isn't just price-fixing or "cartels" or late-stage capitalism or whatever other nonsense people come up with: there are exactly two places where it makes sense to build memory fabs right now. China and Vietnam. Both are functionally state-controlled economies were the government can (and does) intervene to expedite annoying things like planning, environmental impact, zoning, land-use approval, etc. Those are the only two countries where you can conceivably build a memory manufacturing facility in less than three years. And they aren't going all in on it, even though China's (and Vietnam's) entire economy is still largely based on exploiting lucrative niches cheaply (a.k.a. "bootlegs" and "knockoffs"). Because even they realize that this is a temporary demand spike that'll settle out long before they can make enough profit to be worthwhile.
No_Professor_2301@reddit
Just another example of the free market failing most and benefiting a few.
the_lamou@reddit
The free market isn't "failing" anyone. You'll be just fine if you don't get your toys right now. Waiting a year might actually be good for you: give you some time to cool off so you don't spend money you can't afford to.
SwaggaSk8@reddit
But I want toys now 🥺🥺🙁🙁
Mister__Mediocre@reddit
This is the best answer so far.
Because as you said, it's a largely undifferentiated product. It means customers have zero loyalty to a RAM brand, but as a consequence, that means that the brand sees no reason to accept less losses to keep customers happy.
zakmo@reddit
I'm a crucial man... was a crucial man
Excellent_Brilliant2@reddit
i refurb order computers and Crucial's DDR3 sucks. i dont know if it just hated Intel and ASUS motherboards, but most of the time it either not POST, or give somevkind of weird windows error during boot. after a few hundred computers, i just pull any crucial RAM, replace it with kingston, hynix, samsung or nayna and sell the crucial in bulk
zakmo@reddit
Still rocking ddr4 from 2012. Not saying you're wrong just that it's been solid for me personally
AngelicTrader@reddit
Thank you for sharing this. Very interesting answer!
SirLordBoss@reddit
Very interesting read. To your memory, has a crazy spike like this ever happened before? How likely do you think it is that the former prices will ever return?
the_lamou@reddit
Yup, these things happen pretty regularly. I want to say the last one was in the early 2010's, or late 2000's? It's like every 10-15 years, then there's a long drop where RAM goes back to being functionally sold at cost.
SirLordBoss@reddit
I don't recall prices tripling back then... Then again I was a wee lad, blown away by a prebuilt whose specs I don't even remember. How bad did it get
the_lamou@reddit
So it looks like it was around 2013 after a fire at an SK Hynix plant right in the middle of the DDR3 to DDR4 transition. DDR4 prices about doubled, while DDR3 prices about tripled (and almost quadrupled over their all-time low).
SirLordBoss@reddit
Ooof. But that wasn't quite the same, was it? The current prices aren't caused by a disaster, but by too much demand and dwindling supply...
the_lamou@reddit
It might seem like it's different, but ultimately both cases are simple supply and demand. Just on opposite sides of the equation. In 2013, supply shrank below demand; in 2025, demand grew past supply. Different initial causes, but ultimately same reaction.
SpringyFingy@reddit
"Supply" "Demand"
Artificial demand. Just like diamonds. I can't believe how much you're simping for AI rn
the_lamou@reddit
There's no such thing as "artificial" demand. If people want something, that's demand. You don't get to tell people their reasons for wanting something are invalid.
SirLordBoss@reddit
Very good analysis! Now we just gotta determine how long it will take for supply to meet demand. Unless China enters the market, or some new RAM architecture changes things up, things will continue looking quite dire...
the_lamou@reddit
I suspect by the end of 2026/early 2027, things will have mostly settled out. The tell is that it takes about 3 years to build out new fabs on the low end. If memory makers suspected things would last anywhere near that long, they would invest significantly in capacity.
SpringyFingy@reddit
Except it is late stage capitalism...
You might be a tech bro and know all your shit about tech, it clearly doesn't make you literate with politics and economics.
the_lamou@reddit
I'm not a tech bro at all, and I actually have a very good understanding of economics. Which is why that long post you just read is 100% economic analysis and basically nothing to do with tech.
Fun fact: "late stage capitalism" is not an economics term. Or a polisci term. It is, in fact, something that doesn't exist anywhere except terminally online Twitter.
bangle12@reddit
Any estimation when all AI datacenters stop being built so we can see the RAM price decreasing?
the_lamou@reddit
Yeah. It's about a week from never.
Rapturence@reddit
TIL: 1) Kingston isn't in the top 3 despite every personal computer enthusiast I know of uses Kingston. 2) Demand spikes for high-tech high-capital items are the fucking worst because not a single company can ramp up production in time to meet demand and lower prices, and if they try they'll probably lose money because the market would've slowed down in 5 years. 3) AI ruins our lives, AGAIN.
Ltcayon@reddit
Weren't those same companies fined for price fixing though?
Meowz1945@reddit
Weren´t they fined 3? 4 Times already? Always joke fine.
the_lamou@reddit
In 2002. For agreeing to a floor price for major OEMs (Dell, Gateway, HP, etc.) because they realized that the OEMs were large enough to kill any one of them if they wanted. They didn't conspire to keep memory prices high for consumers. They've been ACCUSED of conspiring to keep prices high for consumers, and they've been SUED for allegedly cutting supply or raising price multiple times, but they have not been fined or had any of those lawsuits or accusations turn into anything. Because, and this is important: anyone can sue anyone else for anything if they want to. Doesn't mean there's any merit there, just means they found a lawyer either unethical enough to take their money on a shit case or one stupid or hungry enough to think they could make a name on shaking down Samsung.
StevenMcFlyJr1985@reddit
You could be anymore correct 💯
yellowfin35@reddit
Oligopoly
the_lamou@reddit
Maybe, but with enough firms to still allow for a normal level of competition. Which is why most of the time memory is sold at dirt cheap prices and with razor-thin margins.
CoffeeWorldly9915@reddit
I'm a bit skeptical of 3 companies supplying >90% of the market being enough to not be considered an oligopoly.
the_lamou@reddit
Maybe an oligopoly, though there are actually five major producers and the top three only produce around 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the memory. But it's not because the other two can't. It's just not good business to invest in new fabs most of the time, and even when it might be, chances are 50/50 that by the time the fab comes online the shortage is over and you're never getting that money back.
trappedslider@reddit
Thank you for that explanation.
Practical_Material13@reddit
Is this written using chat gpt lmao
the_lamou@reddit
No, I'm just literate lmao
Practical_Material13@reddit
Alright then, just the structure and wording looks a lot like chat gpt
the_lamou@reddit
Serious answer:
That makes sense because most of my life has been spent writing for money for a bunch of different industries and formats, so I've developed a kind of "neutral legible web writing" style. Kind of how news anchors practice the "neutral American accent." So lots of classical rhetorical devices, clean formatting, a style that pulls pieces from AP and APA and MLA and Chicago and NYT, good structure, etc. And I'm also very familiar with markdown, so I use it to format shit to make it easier to read.
And ChatGPT was trained on so much text that it also tends to converge on "generic, clean, neutral, readable" style. It's not always exciting, but when people see "ChatGPT" style, what they're actually seeing is "this is how you should be writing if you want your shit to be ready to read."
Some tells that my writing ISN'T ChatGPT:
When I use em-dashes ( — ) as I have since learning about them in middle school, I put spaces around them while ChatGPT doesn't. I started in journalism, so I use the AP style format. ChatGPT has a lot of research and formal documents which tend to use Chicago, APA, and MLA with no spaces. So mine are: like — this. ChatGPT tends to be: like—this.
I go off on tangents and use a lot of asides and parentheticals. Sorry, ADHD brain. ChatGPT doesn't. It's much more concise than me.
I often (but not always) curse a lot more.
My lists don't usually come in exactly threes.
themaster567@reddit
I'm a writer and I never once assumed you were using AI. Your writing is solid.
the_lamou@reddit
Thanks! I can't take credit, that all belongs to the amazing editors who put up with my bullshit and beat the right way into my head.
themaster567@reddit
You wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) the amount of writers who fight their editors at every turn. I respect you for taking their critiques in stride lol
the_lamou@reddit
Whoa, now... I didn't say that LOL. But I did listen, even if I didn't agree.
themaster567@reddit
Hah, fair enough! The battle of form versus function will rage on forever.
Comprehensive_Rise32@reddit
Well yeah, because it was trained to copy literate humans like lamou lmao.
Now I am curious what ChatGPT's answer would be given a prompt.
theroguex@reddit
Basically: capitalism is fucking consumers over again, and no one will do anything about it because everyone thinks capitalism should be free to do whatever it wants.
the_lamou@reddit
No, basically "over-privileged entitled idiots who have never actually had to deal with any real hardship in their life are getting bigmad butthurt because their hobby is a little bit more expensive and are demanding that we rearrange the world because their selfish wants are more important than anything else, ever."
If you want more memory, go buy some. If you can't afford to go buy some, go get a cheaper hobby. Or just wait a year, instead of throwing a tantrum like an over-indulged toddler.
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ThelceWarrior@reddit
It's an oligopoly not a cartel.
verticalfuzz@reddit
Same for HDDs right?
da_chicken@reddit
The only time spinning rust had capacity problems was after the 2011 Thailand floods. COVID and AI have had some effects on it recently, but nothing like the chip fab stress that AI is putting on silicon.
cranberrie_sauce@reddit
there was chia crypto - so glad it didnt take off for spinning rust
verticalfuzz@reddit
Yeah fair. My issue at the moment is that seagate and wd had drive-size-parity right up thru 24 tb, but stopped at 26/28/30 tb, so mixing vendors across an array is no longer possible without wasting money or capacity (for most common types of arrays)
da_chicken@reddit
Yeah, I'm not sure what changed where the vendors are doing that now. Different tech or differences in manufacturing.
I don't think we have mixed vendors in a long time, though.
verticalfuzz@reddit
I have just a homelab with a small overall number of high capacity drives, so I try to prioritize reducing the risk of simultaneous failures.
As-is I am probably mtaking things to an extreme with a pool of 3x zfs mirrors - kind of a knee-jerck response to a nearly catastrophic data loss incident a few years ago.
Hoping the mgfs align on sizes again by the time I need to expand.
da_chicken@reddit
Yeah, I don't have a home lab anymore, and I don't have gigs and gigs of stuff anymore, either. But I did at one point, but I always got matching disks for my RAID 5 array though.
modSysBroken@reddit
All the hdd manufacturers colluded for years after that to keep prices artificially high.
No_Moment_9465@reddit
Ah, there it is.
velvetRidging@reddit
This is the key. DRAM makers have limited wafer + packaging capacity, and HBM for GPUs is the highest-margin use of it. When hyperscalers pre-buy HBM, the firms allocate more lines to HBM and less to DDR5, so PC DIMMs get fewer bits. With only a few suppliers, even small shifts show up as higher prices.
FloridaManActual@reddit
exactly. DDR5 is like hedging their bets, there will always be demand so if AI HBM demand crashes the DDR will still be bought/needed.
HOWEVER, in these times, if the HBM is prebought, they dont have to hedge their bets with DDR production because the entire production run is already paid for and they dont need to find buyers.
No-Birthday383@reddit
It's the most blatant price fixing scam we have ever seen. Because most people probably missed the part about how manufacturers are selling direct to open ai and sending about 40% of their production to them, so no production storage it's done intentionally. AI bubble and PC, laptops, and Smartphones use totally different types of RAM yet the manufacturer just trying to sell the most expensive to profit more without any care for normal consumer so we need to stop buying for them to feal the lose of the most consistent and guaranteed buyer.
Fit_Dot1735@reddit
The better answer here is just price gouging
TheTrishaJane@reddit
You and OP are speaking a different language ive never heard of. This tech world has left behind.
ECrispy@reddit
lower supply, and high demand = inflated prices
they could sell the reduced supply of ddr5 at the same price, since they are certainly going to make more profit from switching fab to hbm, but thats not capitalism.
theroguex@reddit
Fuck capitalism.
bittabet@reddit
You need to understand that capitalism is actually way better than any alternatives because at least in this system the amount of RAM that is able to produced is still sold for the LOWEST price possible. In any other system you just wouldn't have any RAM to buy at all. You get USSR style government control over production and essentially only the government would ever have any RAM for military use.
Even if the RAM manufactured wanted to sell the RAM for the old price it wouldn't work in a shortage. Simply because more people want the RAM than the amount of RAM that exists, so someone who buys the RAM for the old price would just sell it to someone else at a markup as a scalper if they don't want the RAM as badly as $900.
The price is set by the number of people who want RAM and the amount of RAM produced, and the producers are just adjusting the price to where the number people willing to buy and the amount they can produce are matched. Markets can fluctuate so prices can undershoot and overshoot but it's still the best method of getting people to manufacture things.
There's DEFINITELY someone out there looking at these RAM prices and thinking about setting aside some fab capacity for memory chips. Like maybe Intel is seeing these prices and looking to see if they can adjust some production, etc.
theroguex@reddit
Lmao
Rich_Criticism_622@reddit
Late but... will the price of RAM for the average user eventually go back to normal given time?
Acceptable-Ad-9797@reddit
Personally I think it will take at least a year and even then we will get used to a new “normal” price. Like every other segment in pc gaming.
LetrixZ@reddit
But why now and not months or years ago?
Independent_Win_9035@reddit
it cant just be that. a 2x8 16GB kit has gone from 60 euros to 120 euros in the last 30 days. this is RAM that is no longer being produced.
in that case, is it just dwindling supplies? even with stock getting sharply reduced, that's a HUGE price increase for one month
Kastergir@reddit
The price increase in DDR4 is likley down to expected ( or even already materializing ) increasing demand .
DDR-4 is still being produced, but its being wound down ( ofc ) . From what I gather, it'll stop in 2026 .
Independent_Win_9035@reddit
huh. i dunno why i assumed it was all 100% old stock already.
still, a 100% price increase over a month is insane. i havent seen a component price spike like that since i stupidly passed on buying that MSRP rtx 3080 at my local PC store 5 years ago
SirBiggusDikkus@reddit
For sure seems like massive opportunity for people with deep pockets to get into chip fab in general. Demand heavily outweighing supply.
Few-Series5590@reddit
The problem is lead time. It can take over a decade to spin up a new operation from scratch, and hundreds of millions of dollars for everything from silicon supply contracts to power usage contracts, all of which can be stopped at any time by unlucky lawsuits over location or unfriendly local government. You basically need to be a multi national super corp to start one, and there is no garentee you will recoup your investment if the market shifts in those ten years of no profit setup time.
This is why there is only the three big producers, no one else can compete with a startup like that.
Emerald_Flame@reddit
Imagine you are a RAM manufacturer. You can only process a finite number of wafers and turn it into RAM every month and each wafer costs you $10,000 (numbers made up just to illustrate the point)
Would you rather:
You guessed right, you would choose #2 because you make way more money that way.
Most of the RAM manufacturers are at full capacity, so they're switching production lines to more profitable products while the demand and profit margins are high. They can't realistically expand capacity. If they started now, it'd likely be a minimum of 3 years (and likely longer) before the new production facility was actually up and running. By then, the demand may not even be there because the AI bubble might pop. So at the moment, RAM manufacturers are just sitting tight and maximizing the profit out of their existing plants.
Eastern_Surround_115@reddit
Imagine I fucking care about imagining it from the capitalist's perspective. Imagine how much I fucking care.
Wickmoods@reddit
You are very smart
tripleyothreat@reddit
so just like that, existing stock gets more expensive?
Emerald_Flame@reddit
I mean, prices have been steadily rising for months now, but effectively yeah.
If you're a store that bought RAM for $100, with the plan to sell it for $150, but your supplier tells you your next order is going to cost $300 to restock, you're going to raise your prices so you 1. make more money, and 2. can afford to restock
tripleyothreat@reddit
Woah didn't realize it's been months now. So micron stock blowing up isn't so wild then huh?
Emerald_Flame@reddit
Micron's stock price has been on a consistent rise since for months now too.
They've been outpacing the S&P 500 indexes since like May of 2025, and have been on significant rise since at least September.
https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/compare/mu-vs-voov/
fdoom@reddit
My question is why did this happen now and not 4 years ago when AI started going crazy?
absentlyric@reddit
Because AI was still dependent on GPUs, which is why those were as expensive as they were.
Jordann538@reddit
so that means gpu prices with drop a little bit to balance out the ram demand?
gibe93@reddit
AI is dependent on both computing chips and memory chips in the same way,if you increase one you must increase the other,each is useless without the other so that's not the reason,the discrepancy comes from a different starting position when AI race started,GPUs had no stock but memory was overproduced so GPU prices got high immediately while supply for memory had stocked chips to absorb the i itial demand,now they simply run out with demand still climbing and fabs at full capacity,only a few producers so if you want it you must pay more than the other are willing to
DazzJuggernaut@reddit
Four years ago was Dec 2021. AI as we know it did not essentially start until Altman demoed ChatGPT to the masses on Dec 2022.
gibe93@reddit
Memory had an oversupply problem after covid so the first ramp up of AI was covered but the stocks ended and now the problem is opposite,the only reason GPUs prices acted differently is that there wasn't a stock so they skyrocketed immediately
kontinuparadi@reddit
I've never seen such an eloquent answer from reddit. Thank you for this explanation. I can't explain how I understand this even with my dumb brain.
pessimistic_mangos@reddit
🤤mmmmmm vanilla wafers
Slightly_Sexy_421@reddit
This is mostly true except more like selling to data centers for $20k/wafer. Still more lucrative, but 10x the profit, not 10x the revenue.
cryptomonein@reddit
It's like being a company with the government as a client, you sell your stuff with 10 times margin as they basically have infinite money. (France assembly toilet paper is 12€/roll)
RelevantMetaUsername@reddit
Or $400 screws on US fighter jets that can be found on McMaster Carr for ¢75 a piece
weakbelt9990@reddit
Something amazing better come out of this AI bubble, coz it's really starting to piss me off. So far, it seems like mainly downsides.
Rich_Criticism_622@reddit
Late but... will the price of RAM for the average user eventually go back to normal given time?
Emerald_Flame@reddit
From past events, probably. When the AI bubble pops and demand goes down. RAM has traded as a commodity for a long time and has always seen big price cycles like this.
On the flip-side though. All the RAM manufacturers have been consistently and constantly been fined and tried for collusion and price fixing.
Ultimately your crystal ball is as good as anyone elses. It'll probably come down at some point, but who knows by how much or how long it'll take.
theroguex@reddit
See, I can't imagine this because I don't give a shit about maximizing my profits. My goal would be to be providing a product to people. I would devote some of my production to HBM3E, but most of it would remain DDR4/DDR5, and I would go out of my way to make sure it ended up in the hands of consumers, not the big AI companies.
DragonSlayerC@reddit
And you would immediately be fired by shareholders for not maximizing profits.
theroguex@reddit
So corporate boards need to start reminding shareholders that they have no legal obligation to maximize their value.
CirrusVision20@reddit
This is why you aren't CEO of a publicly traded corporation.
shittydriverfrombk@reddit
incredibly how people still don’t understand how little volition corporate leadership have in that regard
theroguex@reddit
Corporations have no legal obligations to maximize shareholder value. I wish they would play that card more aggressively, but I bet that is aajor reason why they pay executives in stock.
Should just ban that part. Pay them their salaries in cash only, and if they want to buy stocks, they can.
shittydriverfrombk@reddit
It’s not about legal obligation. They are compelled nonetheless by the structure of the economic system and the political dynamics inside and between firms
DwayneTheRockFan@reddit
Why aren't ram manufacturers like Micron's stocks soaring if they're earning way more?
Emerald_Flame@reddit
It is.
3 years ago a share of Micron was ~$50
1 year ago, it was $90.
Today, it's $241.
Aguyfromsector2814@reddit
But why now suddenly? Why not a year ago?
makoblade@reddit
While it's true that the choice between selling to consumers (or other companies who will) or business/enterprise is a major reason, it's not really about capacity.
There are only 3 relevant manufacturers in the world, who supply nearly 95% of all memory - Samsung, SK Hynix and Micron. They have no real interest in increasing production capacity because they have minimal interest in the consumer segment. Mind you, this isn't to say that they could double production or anything, just that they are actively advertising they are not going to entertain the idea of increased production under the guise of "avoiding overproduction" as way to appease their stockholder overlords.
It's more collusion to keep production levels stagnant while catering to the sector that is paying premium prices.
ShakenButNotStirred@reddit
It's not just that they're unwilling to risk an AI bubble.
All three major manufacturers have all decided not to reinvest in increasing capacity because they've explicitly said they prefer higher margin at lower volume.
In a 'healthy' market one of the competitors would shift to increase volume, or a new entrant would appear.
Basically legalized stock buybacks plus unenforced anti-collusion and anti-monopoly laws make this possible.
Specific_Frame8537@reddit
So it's... Google's fault?
*readies pitchfork*
fakeaccount572@reddit
Upset-Ad-8704@reddit (OP)
This answer makes lots of sense! Thanks!
Scooter_Dave@reddit
The sad truth is : they don't want people to have computers. They want everyone to use cloud, and AI.
Intelligent_You1521@reddit
Ai data centers using all the ram. And crucial is no longer selling to consumers
Krelleth@reddit
Crucial is going away because Micron can just make absurdly more money selling every module they can make to AI firms. Desktop pcs are just a rounding error not worth their time.
(It's the same for nVidia, but they keep going with gaming cards for... some reason. Nostalgia?)
theroguex@reddit
This mindset is the cancer of capitalism.
Victizes@reddit
Competition in a capitalistic society promotes this scummy cutthroat behavior.
Victizes@reddit
Competition in a capitalistic society promotes this cutthroat behavior.
SometimesWill@reddit
Nvidia keeps producing consumer gpus the same reason Google keeps YouTube running. Even though it’s a small percent in their profit margins, it still nets them a profit.
ImHughAndILovePie@reddit
YouTube turns a profit?
Venesss@reddit
Part of the reason i presume is that Nvidia doesn't want to fall behind on consumer cards. It's hedging their bets in a way because if the bubble pops and wipes out their current business model they still have a solid base and profit model to fall back on
JacketsNest@reddit
Micron are being really stupid right now with shutting down Crucial
Weeaboology@reddit
It sucks for us but it’s not really stupid. I imagine once the bubble pops it won’t be all that difficult for them to swap back to making consumer ram. It’s not like they have hundreds of competitors to worry about
Golden_Flame0@reddit
Brand recognition would be my guess.
Empty_Instruction433@reddit
Greedy companies proritising profits
drowsycow@reddit
sam altman wants ur ram
goddamnitwhalen@reddit
More like Ram Altman amirite
God I can’t wait for that dude to get sued for everything he’s worth
Informal-Zone-4085@reddit
Sam Altman-Fried
SucculentShark@reddit
If he gets sued, all the money will be from people's retirement accounts and will go to disney and such for winning the court case. Sam will be fine but everyone will be donating a bit of their retirement to other massive corporations
goddamnitwhalen@reddit
I’m not talking about Disney.
Wise_Hovercraft799@reddit
Never going to happen, only in your fantasies. There is nothing you or anyone can do to stop AI.
SecureWave@reddit
About a year ago I bought used ddr4 ram with ecc memory for about $45 for 32gb. Now the price is 199 and it’s very old server memory. Crazy
Money-Code2078@reddit
How bout fuck AI
Lord_Chicken_wings@reddit
In my words, AI datacenters. AI needs a significant amount of memory to get good enough for the kinda stuff companies want to do in order to replace humans. So they're buying the heck out of them. They can also pay more than we can.
pursuedrew@reddit
ai incels ruin everything 🙄
Unlikely-Macaroon563@reddit
All while the CPUs and Graphics card still goes for the same prices, right. I didn't know inly SSDs and RAM were major components for AI. To me this is just another marketing scam like what's happening with the groceries, don't care how much technically rundown it's explained.
Otherwise_Award7228@reddit
Wtf is happening...few months ago I checked the price it was 2200rs now it has gone upto 5600 rs
Dapper-Razzmatazz-60@reddit
No. Sam Altman decided to hog 40% of the world's supply for himself. Google it. Literally this is the crux of it.
vali_grad@reddit
you guys are drowning, how many years stupid people & scammers used bitcoin ? it is extinct ? nope ! AI will grow exepnentially with gov help, just buy what you wnt while you can. We'll all be forced some day to buy locked devices for everything, just like phones were with telecoms
VT750C@reddit
The government increased prices so working people can't afford to build or buy a rebuilt PC
Keshenji@reddit
My go to is the lemon explanation in fall of the house of usher
https://youtu.be/rIK-q6JoOeU?si=xwUAByd1qWF6Zp56
hydrowarrior4@reddit
ai
harrismorr@reddit
I read a blog that primarily focused on high demand and low supply. You can check the blog
https://www.accio.com/business/latest-ram-memory-technology-trend
Ok-Big1417@reddit
I think it’s all a bunch of bullshit to get everyday people to pay the cost for these AI centers.
Fit_Dot1735@reddit
The simple answer that no one wants to say is; price gouging due to high demand of ai data centers which need tons of ram. So companies see a big boom of money in their pockets from the other big boom of ai companies needing storage. In which now screws over the common man.
Tall-Bug7108@reddit
it's all about taking advantage of the ai bubble, even DDR4 are expensive AF, used (second-hand) ram is also expensive.
Now even NVMe is 4x the price
Ok-Implement6481@reddit
Anyone expecting the AI bubble to pop...be prepared to shell out the $400 for some ram for the foreseeable future. AI is only going to get bigger and bigger. Love it or hate it.
Time-Grass5856@reddit
Basically people need to not buy any RAM until the prices come down. They're saying there is a shortage due to the AI requiring more and therefore they are shafting regular consumers, but really they're using that as a scapegoat to rake in more money. Unfortunately too many idiots will give in, just don't
nyghtdragon@reddit
This basically sums it up on why prices are high.
Memory (RAM) is expensive due to a massive, recent surge in demand from Artificial Intelligence (AI) data centers, causing manufacturers to shift precious production capacity away from consumer-grade RAM, creating a severe shortage and skyrocketing prices for gamers and general PC users, a trend expected to persist. It's a classic supply/demand imbalance, exacerbated by limited wafer supply, with high-bandwidth memory (HBM) for AI taking priority over standard DRAM. Key Reasons for High Prices Exploding AI Demand: Training large language models and AI requires vast amounts of specialized memory, diverting production to high-bandwidth memory (HBM) and high-capacity server DIMMs. Strategic Production Shift: Memory manufacturers prioritize more profitable AI-focused components, reducing the output of standard DDR4/DDR5 RAM for consumers. Market Shortage: With less standard RAM being made and high demand, a significant supply gap has formed, driving prices up dramatically (50%+ increases in early 2026). Limited Wafer Supply: The physical capacity to produce memory chips (wafers) is finite, and this limited supply is funneled to the highest-paying sectors, squeezing consumers. What This Means for You Higher Costs: Expect to pay significantly more for RAM upgrades or new PCs. Persistent Issue: The trend isn't temporary; the AI boom is fundamentally reshaping the memory market. In essence, the AI revolution is "eating" the world's memory supply, making it a luxury item for regular users as manufacturers focus on lucrative AI infrastructure.
Chowlampah@reddit
Only one solution to bring Ram prices down. Just get China to start producing Rams .. it is the only country capable of mass producing almost any thing.!
Upset-Ad-8704@reddit (OP)
You are very much not wrong!
Objective_Lime_3820@reddit
The real answer is there isn't a shortage, we the consumers are just getting scammed again by predatory corporate ethics, because they have realized just like Oil if you pretend there is a shortage in supply, but have a ridiculous demand you can spike the prices however you like. Because this is the dystopian Future we are building.
Wild_Understanding72@reddit
Used for AI. The government is a big buyer for these RAM manufacturers. So, the manufacturers increased the price to milk the government, as they would have had an essentially unlimited budget.
Wild_Understanding72@reddit
The demand for RAM is extremely high at the moment. And due to the increase in demand, the suppliers cannot keep up. Could they figure out a way to pump more RAM out into the market? Yes... But why would you, when they can charge increased prices and profit more?
Think of RAM as a Birkin. Limited production = High demand, High demand = People willing to pay higher amounts to get their hands on one. Which then amounts to them being able to increase the price. If people (AI companies / Governments) are willing to pay the price, then why change it?
ashl0w@reddit
É o princípio do fim
Aggravating_Farm3116@reddit
Corporate greed
Accomplished_Pin5356@reddit
They have known since years ago the rising demand in AI smartphones AI PC & Laptops and the hungry AI data center yet they just wanted to get more profit. The strange thing is that all tech blogger & reviewer seems to ignore that fact 🤔 all they talk how hard it to begin the production & that it will never come before the problem is already solved 🙄 almost like they are bribed. So okay then as a solution I will never buy till it back to normal I will use my laptop instead of smartphone let's see who needs who.
huyomd@reddit
if Trump drop the tariiff the chinese ddr5 would be affordable
huyomd@reddit
I think only 3 companies can produce HBM and those are different process than regular. But CHinese makes ddr5 too so jjst a matter if Trump drop the tarriff
Venumidas@reddit
It's a big big tech scam.
No reasonable person can conclude why some weird ass 8gb SODIMM DDR4 with 2400hz suddenly spiked x8 in price from 1 week to another.
They use the fact that absolute highest end DDR5 ones are getting manufactured for datacenters only as excuse to raise the entire marketprice, making some weird claim about production shortages, which makes no sense even for retailers that already were selling them for that 1/8 price in the first place with plenty in stock.
So basically, large scale fraud.
Spirited_Pair1269@reddit
Ai uses a special type of ram so companies have slowed right down on production of ddr5 to sell to all these places pushing the ai boundaries. It sucks for us consumers big time.
Hamdivitoo@reddit
OK I don't understand this but is it to generate stupid video n photos, is that why AI getting all the ram ? 🤣 anyone can explain pls?
s00mika@reddit
Sam Altman (CEO of OpenAI/ChatGPT) preordered a large chunk of the worlds RAM supply of 2026. Not even finished RAM chips, but bare silicon wafers which are useless on their own. People assume it's more about him trying to stop competition this way, than actually needing for so much RAM. The manufacturers meanwhile announced that they won't set up more production, and actually will change some production lines to HBM GPU RAM. As a result RAM prices immediately skyrocketed because everyone is panicking.
And the funny thing is, OpenAI will never be sustainable. Even paid accounts don't make them money. Sams theory is that in a few years he will somehow be able to make an actual superintelligent AI which will make everything else meaningless, at least that's what he tells his investors. In reality many important AI researchers already jumped ship because they realized that ChatGPT will always be just an imperfect text generator, not a true artificial general intelligence or ASI (artificial super intelligence).
Rich_Artist_8327@reddit
SAM prevented companies to build their own local LLMs
theroguex@reddit
He shouldn't have been able to do this. There should be limits.
Proof_Picture_3962@reddit
Yeah. Ignoring the AI part, what if some dude with a lot of money did this just to manipulate the market? It would have been the same approach. This is insane and needs anti trust legislation.
Zedion@reddit
If a trillionaire buys your neighbor's house for 200 million dollars. He loses, you win. Nobody manipulates the markets more than our governments.
Flashy_Interview_301@reddit
If a trillionaire buys up half the existing supply of existing food and all food that will be produced in 2026 and producers are refusing to grow more crops, you as a consumer will almost certainly lose.
FUCKUWO@reddit
Start growing your own food
krugerlive@reddit
1) You know you need meaningful land to grow food to feed a family, right? You can't do it with a backyard or home greenhouse.
2) also this is a metaphor about ram, and I can't just make a backyard fab to avoid the insane cost increases.
Zedion@reddit
Do you believe government price controls will reduce the prices of RAM? If this is true, then maybe we should ask the governments to lower the prices of RAM to $1, then we will all have as much RAM as we want.
Flashy_Interview_301@reddit
Can't the billionaires bought up all arable lands.
ballebaj@reddit
This is a great way to summarize the politics and people around AI.
Where are the AI researchers actually going then?
s00mika@reddit
A few technical researchers went to a new startup which explicitly wants to create AGI, while AI safety researchers seem to have just left
Seriouscat_@reddit
There's one and only and totally sufficient way to make any AI safe: Don't believe a word it outputs without verifying first from an outside non-AI source.
Meanwhile the idea of AGI is a contradiction in terms, a metaphysical nothing, a consequence of misunderstanding what intelligence is.
rizzlybear_93@reddit
Going to companies like Adobe or Microsoft where they make a mil a year and 2-5x in stock on top of that.
Rich_Artist_8327@reddit
I have totally different theory. They do say that suddenly AI companies like OpenAI bought 40% of the capacity. That might be true but why only now? AI boom has been here couple of years. LLM has been here more than couple of years. This is not what it looks like, this is more political. They bought the capacity and will buy it more in the future but not because some AI company suddenly needs all. This is how it went: AWS: mr. president, companies do not trust us anymore and are pulling out. Its about your politics threathning the west. Please stop. Microsoft: Europeans have started to move their worksloads to european datacenters. Please bring back US reputation. OpenAI: Companies are not using enough our API, too many are building local LLMs. We have to stop this or the bubble burts. Trump: What should I do Musk? Musk: Wait. I'll ask from Grok. Grok: To keep US as the leader in cloud and AI and to prevent europe from bulding their own infrstructure, they need to be either nuked or you gotta buy all the RAM. Trump. Sam, buy all. Meet you in Greenland.
Squidgical@reddit
This artificial scarcity is further proof that markets need strict regulation prioritizing consumers. Corporations should not be able to collaborate, even indirectly, in order to screw consumers in the name of profit.
The fact that only three companies produce ram is honestly disgusting, we ought to have at least a dozen, each of them prioritizing some different aspect of the market (consumer vs corporate vs resell, vram vs ram, Asia vs N America vs Europe etc) to ensure that the product is available at a fair price for everyone.
Private capital is such a destructive phenomenon
courier11sec@reddit
There isn't a logical reason, but the realistic reason is that one faction of wealth fetishists have reached the point in their bubble where the only way to keep it expanding rather than popping is to trick municipalities into letting them build immense infrastructure that is unlikely to get used, the costs for which they will write off in taxes meaning you'll pay for it. This infrastructure would require unimaginable amounts of memory and so this fake demand has increased exponentially.
At the same time, a different faction of wealth fetishists has made the calculation that their profits will be greater if they abandon their actual customers to concentrate on these unnecessary projects' requirements.
A third faction of wealth fetishists have at the same time realize that they can leverage this situation to normalize renting you time using hardware and so it benefits them to do what they can to contribute to roadblocks that make you having your own hardware more expensive and difficult.
The key to the whole thing is that these shortages only effect normal people. The wealthy can bypass all of these obstructions simply by virtue of being wealthy. Often without even having to pay for the subjects of this manufactured scarcity.
Hope this helps.
ConferenceIll417@reddit
2025 is the year that A.I. started to compete with humanity for resources. It decided it needs more of everything.
Majestic-Jelly-8393@reddit
Greed
LordNikon2600@reddit
Trump is the reason ram is up
brianleexsr@reddit
Wait a few years and China will save us (consumers) all.
Jaagger2bit@reddit
Is bullshit.. I was going to get another set of ram last week but didn't have the money. I look today and the price has gone up by 1.5x..
LordBalzack64@reddit
What I find most upsetting is that this is happening just a couple years after that freaking stupid crypto mining craze had kept us priced out of GPU's for half a decade. I'm just glad I built a new PC in early 2024 and can ride this out...
kurikuri15@reddit
I bought my ram 64gb for 120euro now its 200euro per 32gb wat the heck!
gulfhindi@reddit
In Short RAM is expensive now primarily due to explosive demand from AI servers consuming supply, forcing manufacturers to prioritize high-margin High-Bandwidth Memory (HBM) over standard consumer DRAM, causing shortages and price hikes for DDR4/DDR5, compounded by limited wafer capacity, production shifts, and panic buying from desperate PC builders and data centers.
sam7oon@reddit
am starting to believe there is no shortage, people just took the opportunity to start raising prices, cuz shortage means RAM is out of stock every where, then it results in prices going up , but its not the case, people are just greedy
Jazzar1n0@reddit
At the start of the year I bought 32gb of RGB ram for $140 now it's $600 lol
I'm patient I'll wait for more
PreviousConcert7386@reddit
Another industry china will take over
mjntr@reddit
Meh, probably some scheme hatched by the private equity owners by way of their activism. Another scam
ateyourgrandmaa@reddit
I was thinking of getting a 8gb sodimm ddr4 stick to upgrade my laptop, but the prices are almost 3x. I hate the AI slop
beksonbarb@reddit
I’m so fucking tired of AI.
Little-Equinox@reddit
It's all just bullcrap.
They artificially increase prices so their revenue is higher. It actually has nothing to do with AI.
The same GPU prices hiking had nothing to do with crypto mining, yet they still blamed them.
The thing is they refuse to increase RAM production, pretend there aren't enough memory chip, then blame AI for the artifical shortages that don't exist. Then hike the prices so they earn more money.
The only shortages are in high capacity memory chips, the ones we will never be able to afford anyways, these chips don't cut into consumer products, but they pretend they do.
BrewingHeavyWeather@reddit
It all comes from the same place. There are only so many production lines, and only so many wafers to push through them. And, it's simply wrong that it's not AI. It is specifically OpenAI, and more specifically Sam Altman. He made deals to buy up more than 1/3 of next year's entire world RAM production, and that is precisely why the market has gone sideways.
XeroShyft@reddit
How tf can you even make a deal like that. That's fucking ridiculous
Current-Lawyer-4148@reddit
because the gov wants to keep american-made ai better than china's
BrewingHeavyWeather@reddit
By Western governments caring about the AI, "arms race," enough to be at least passive supporters of the bubble, and Altman being sneaky. What I read was that he made deals with Hynix and Samsung, around the same time, not letting each know what he was up to with the other, until the ink was already dry. Especially with Samsung denying sales now to their own subsidiaries, I can very much imagine some shouting matches have been going on in their board rooms!
XeroShyft@reddit
Wild, he really finessed the hell out of them. I would take some twisted joy in Samsung not having enough RAM and Altman being broke and seeking government bailout if it weren't for the consumers ultimately being the ones to be shat on. Immensely frustrating for all involved, when do you think this AI arms race will resolve, at least on the hardware side? Prices will likely never go back down to what they were pre-2020, but as someone who just recently got a good job and was saving up to finally get a nice gaming pc, it's depressing that all of this is popping off right now lol.
Sunny_Cant_Swim@reddit
Bro I have no fucking idea, but I just came around to wanting to start building again for shits and giggles… $150 for 32gb of DDR4.. my brother in Christ I was grabbing 16gb sticks for $20 brand new on fb marketplace lol going from paying at most $40-50 for $32gb of 3200mhz to $150 is fucking crazy to me lmao what the actual fuck?
Ok-Technician-3570@reddit
Why do I feel like there’s also a level of greed behind the suppliers and using the opportunity 🤐
Accomplished_Low8378@reddit
I bought another 32GB RAM back in January 2025 as a backup for my work-from-home setup. It only cost me $51.07 at the time. I haven’t really used it yet just tested it to make sure it works and it’s still sitting in my PC parts backup box.
With RAM prices skyrocketing lately, I checked how much the same RAM costs now, and it’s insane around $197, almost $200, and that’s just DDR4. I can’t even imagine how much it’ll cost by 2026; it could easily hit $500–$1,000. Sad reality for PC users
PhantomEcho327@reddit
Read a few replies, but none I saw kept it really simple, so here:
The raw materials used to make memory for AI datacenters are the same as computer RAM. The end product is different than what we call RAM used in computer memory but the principle is the same. Basically HBM memory used in data centers is more compact, more energy efficient, and faster than consumer DDR5 used in PCs. Manufacturers are prioritizing making AI datacenter memory with their raw materials over consumer memory because it sells for a higher price and demand is exceedingly high right now.
A shorter answer that can fit in one word is "Greed".
natflade@reddit
Sam Altman made a trip to South Korea in October to broker deals with SK Hynix and Samsung. Neither was aware of the other deal but he bought 40% of the world’s dram supply. Typically there are safeguards including surpluses and order limits to make sure this doesn’t happen. However a combination of uncertainty from the tariffs and ram prices steadily declining made these offers very attractive. Samsung typically wouldn’t even do this deal because their other business is selling consumer electronics and that portion of their business has even been denied ram orders because of this. Consumer electronic purchases are also down too. Also again neither company was aware of the others deal because it was such an absurd offer.
Here’s the real kicker, OpenAI has done nothing with these wafers and they are still raw and haven’t been cut and allocated to any standard and are just sitting in a warehouse. Now they could be made into something but OpenAI is broke and seeking a government bailout. They don’t actually have the money to do anything.
So why are they just holding onto this ram? It’s to do whatever they can to slow down competition and have this windfall of wafers they could sell off at extreme prices. Most of the western LLM models are catching up if not surpassing OpenAIs offering and the Chinese models have taken a completely different approach to hardware and are also just about there if not already surpassing OpenAI as well.
OpenAI and ChatGPT haven’t made any money, the only people who have made any money in this whole thing has been the hardware makers like Samsung and SK Hynix and Nvidia. DeepSeek and other Chinese models have also proven that these models can be trained for literally fractions of what ChatGPT has costed. DeepSeek only costed 5 million or so to develop and it’s all open source in part because the developers realized there wasn’t any real way to monetize it. It is a useful tool but not even a hundred million dollar industry to them.
JacketsNest@reddit
Could OpenAI be facing legal trouble over this? That screams fraud
Lucifer_Chester@reddit
They are living in America how could they be facing legal troubles
Admirable_Phrase_885@reddit
Im just happy that most of these losers who sweat on fortnite , valorant and other competitive games wont be able to do that as much cause of these shortages lmfaoo and if they tried then they would risk frying their components and have to pay a fortune for replacements 😂 🤣🤣 i stand with ai bubble✊🤝👍
Sufficient_Winner686@reddit
Hey, I build data centers for AI. We don’t use the kind of RAM you all use in your PCs because we need exabytes of RAM, or so much that it’s actually nearly impossible to conceive the actual number. The producers of the conventional RAM sticks also make the industrial ones that allow for that much memory. These companies are prioritizing the production of these enterprise RAM chips, which is lowering the supply of the consumer ones because they’re producing fewer of them.
Flimsy_Inflation1772@reddit
Looks like I won't be getting a new PC for a very, very long time. Thankfully I stocked up last year in anticipation of tariffs from the Dumbass in Chief.
Exciting-Chemistry81@reddit
It'll get better but we gotta wait a while because once this AI bubble burst then I think these companies would start focusing on the consumer side for once because AI's definitely a bubble, but purely in the financial way. The amount of money that's being poured in ai can not justify it's worth it definitely can't recoup it back. Check this out guy's pretty reasonable https://www.wheresyoured.at/big-tech-2tr/ that being said the tech's pretty good. It'll keep on getting better. It's Just that these companies don't know how to earn money from it and they implementing it very terribly.
Same with these GPUs first the crypto hoarding then the covid shortage and now this AI boom. They've been constantly in so much demand, nvidia had no choice but to raise prices simple economics, still though I think it'll pass just hope it don't bring a recession with it.
rindor1990@reddit
AI slop demands more RAM
Own_Caterpillar2033@reddit
Limited production , increased costs , company, AI ,stock running out for old models . Not making new ddr4 anymore ,Micron stopping making ram , fear , inflation , people needing to upgrade old pcs and everyone doing at once , fact we on the consumer and get the leftovers from the actual industrial market and especially with US government grants there is an increasing incentive for the existing producers to switch over to corporate sales opposed to consumer, possibility of Chinese invasion on Taiwan increasing every month. Issues with trade and laws pertaining to trade of such technologies with China and a handful of more minor factors .
Procrustes10@reddit
There is zero demand for DD4 rams..They just trying to rip people WALLETS. They are tons of rams available every..this is PURE SCAM! and price discrimination to pc hardware consumers.
MainMobile1413@reddit
I don't buy the supply shortage story. A bottle of rubbing alcohol that used to be $0.80 USD a year or two ago is now $4 at the Wal. This is just a convenient excuse to increase profits. Retailers are still selling gaming PCs w/ 32gb ram and 2tb storage for $1,500, so you're telling me the rest of the computer only cost \~$600?
Mikun_pradhan-1@reddit
Currently ddr4 32gb ram is costing ₹30,000 only 👀 my eyeballs rolled out. ... I am crying in a corner 😭 .. it use to be 13 to 15k max at a point of time .... More than 100% increase in price. .... Insanely expensive
klop2031@reddit
One note on the ram vs vram. Some folks can offload the moe experts to ram and still get good performance. Thus you can run large models like qwen3-next 80b3a
Striking-Dot-9630@reddit
5 months ago when i build my PC
Cruicial 2TB 7400 Gen 4 SSD before $209 - now $428
G Skill Flare x5 DDR5 6000 64GB - before $255 - $Now 499
Mrsheep571@reddit
OpenAi bought out the stock of ram to stop small chinese ai services crashing the US economy, their hopes were to stop other companies creating ai so they have the monopoly
AnointedNoble@reddit
I gotta pay 100%-500% more for ram now because these fucking chuds wanna generate bullshit A.I. videos
tibig85@reddit
Just wait until the AI bubble pops. Many of these companies will die.
bananaberrie_@reddit
damn if did research 95 percent AI startup gonna failed , large of data did not profict becauser of chat gpt and gemini. and people still believe Ai is the reason price hiked. You all got scammed
PervHaak@reddit
I just wish that those companies will bankrupt and start eating dirt.
MassiDark@reddit
what good is a data center if people cant afford computers to interface with/make use the them
angxunmotherboard@reddit
Chip shortage
Substantial-Oil-2930@reddit
big part is also that orange Clown trum lost an economy war vs china, one of of the main producer of silocon and critical metals like gallium. a big factor because that defeat hit the delivery-chains for the producer pretty hard, especially in usa.
agnosticautonomy@reddit
LMAO $400 for 32 GB is insane
KnifeEdge@reddit
Weird thing is cos like the h200 uses direct on die memory, which presumably means that silicon was all done by tsm, not a typical ram fab
I guess some chips don't use this tech and will have ram chips soldered directly onto the pcb as opposed to being an "all in one" chip but the future chips certainly would focus more on the all in one type solutions rather than the traditional ram chip on the pcb (or maybe it will use both, who knows)
bitbrowaway1212@reddit
They know everyone is buying gear around Christmas. They need to boost profits. Plain and simple.
HelpMeImBread@reddit
So fucking sick of AI literally ruining everything for such marginal gain. Like there’s quite literally nothing revolutionary with AI for the average person and yet it’s fucking up almost every facet of life.
HSR47@reddit
TLDR: The memory market boils down to 3 big companies (Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron), and OpenAI signed contracts with two of them to buy up a huge percentage of their 2026 wafer supply. They have, in turn, also signaled that they do not intend to increase their production for 2026.
The market has read this as a signal that demand is greater than supply, and that they need to buy RAM now so that they’ll have what they need when the shortages actually hit.
That, in turn, has resulted in a massive wave of panic buying, which has caused prices to skyrocket.
Upset-Ad-8704@reddit (OP)
Sounds like COVID toilet paper
HSR47@reddit
Depends where you were.
Australia? Maybe.
The U.S.? No.
Aus imports much of its TP, and shipping issues were constraining their supply.
Stateside the issue was mostly packaging: Most “public restrooms” use TP large diameter TP rolls that are much too large for the fixtures in most home bathrooms. The forced closure of businesses meant that a significant portion of the supply was suddenly not being used.
There were similar issues with a lot of food products, like eggs restaurants tend to use medium eggs, while the LG and XL eggs go to grocery stores. The forced closures of so many restaurants resulted in a “shortage” because there was no mechanism to package medium eggs for sale in “grocery store quantity” (they usually get sold to restaurants in cases of 30 dozen). Back during that era there were a few times where I got trays of ~3 dozen M eggs from a store breaking up “food service” packages of 30 dozen. Similar things happened with vegetables—the giant and ugly ones tend to go to restaurants, while only the beautiful & conveniently sized ones go to grocery stores.
Aggravating-Dog3309@reddit
In the UK our prices have not risen like yours for RAM. That means the “AI” explanation for American price rises isnt really mathing. What ELSE might be the culprit ?
ApricotBest9916@reddit
i've noticed RAM spikes when factories slow and demand jumps with new CPU launches, so i usually wait for seasonal sales and grab a kit i need rather than chasing specs.
meFalloutnerd93@reddit
subscription cloud services
Kemaro@reddit
The same reason the price of any consumer good goes up, supply and demand. Demand is high, supply is low. Price increases.
Iluminatis_aka_space@reddit
Havent followed the news these last few weeks and it might have already been said. But as far as I know, two very big RAM manufacturers stopped producing for the "normal" market and switched to AI, that combined with the rising gold price has made them so expensive. Like I said I havent had the chance to catch up on the latest news, but thats what I deducted from these last few weeks
94358io4897453867345@reddit
Collusion and greed, as usual
squiddybonesjones@reddit
companies shift their production to support the enormous hardware requirements for a.i. (HBM), instead of consumers.
Artificial scarcity ( controlling the market + winding down production of ddr4 )
Phantom_3286@reddit
Capitalism
TerrifyingRose@reddit
I only see 2 futures:
Mr_PixelUk@reddit
Micron
AlaskanDruid@reddit
No logical reason at all. Just pure greed.
Apprehensive_Set_937@reddit
I just googled my ram stick now(32gb) kingston fury 6000mhz cl30.. i bought them for 230$,, and now 3 weeks after i built my pc the same ram kit cost now 900$... what in the HELL?!! Im never Lucky, like never.. what if it was now I was going to start buying parts😐
IPutThoughtIntoThis@reddit
Scarcity. When things are harder to get, they become more sought after, making them more valuable. It's one thing when RAM isn't being manufactured as quickly as it can be, it's a whole 'nother situation when companies announce that they're no longer selling to consumers due to massive sales for AI.
Shadowraiden@reddit
because they arent ordering ram. they are ordering the chips used for ram and taking up the entire manufacturing of that ram. imagine if what is about 60% of the worlds corn overnight disappeared and future corn was cut to 40% of current output to an entire new industry that has no public use for it. oh look all corn products would skyrocket massively.
this is even more impactful because the places that manufacture these types of base components are actually very few across the entire world.
CS_NaCl@reddit
Supply and demand
Healthy_Yogurt_3955@reddit
Ootl, that's an odd name. How do you pronounce it?
Upset-Ad-8704@reddit (OP)
Like Poodle, but without the p....and replace the d with a t.
CasualHearthstone@reddit
The ai companies will pay more for ram vs consumers, so the manufacturers will switch more of their factories to make ram for the ai companies. That's less product for the consumers, so prices rise.
Cultural-Page7086@reddit
Data centers need is greater than all others
Fearless_Goal4162@reddit
Supply and demand. Since AI companies started going after RAM, most of the production force from big RAM manufacturers has gone to making RAM for AI, leaving very little for the consumer market. Supply goes down, demand stays high - prices on RAM go up.
Ultimegede@reddit
Greed
Footwearing@reddit
There's only 10 blue bananas coming out of the banana factory yearly,
AI gorilla thinks he's creating the best and new banana factory in the world so gorilla government and other gorilla corps are giving him money to invest in his banana printing machine, he needs 200 blue bananas.
Blue bananas go up in price ridiculously because literally dozens of gorilla corporations are pooling money together to buy all the blue bananas they can.
shleefin@reddit
Supply low. Demand high.
odd_orange@reddit
I’ll add to this because people are simply saying AI even though you mentioned it via LLM.
It’s not the actual process of AI/LLM performing its function, it’s that these massive data centers can process through loads more data more efficiently on their servers using DDR5.
This isn’t an actual shortage. It’s that there’s so few companies making memory that the decision of one will move the others. They realized that providing massive amounts of RAM to data centers was far more lucrative than staying in the consumer market. So, instead of supplying gamers essentially, they’ve decided to fully supply any company building these massive drains on humanity via AI/ LLM data centers.
Basically these are just giant farms harvesting the data of every single user to sell for profit, and the memory manufacturers want a cut.
PracticalConjecture@reddit
It is a supply/demand problem, and to a lesser extent a risk mitigation issue.
The total demand for RAM has gone up as AI firms create a server boom and demand lots of RAM. The supply hasn't meaningfully changed since it takes time to spin up a new process line, and manufacturers are weary of over investing, as they did in 2021/2022
There's also a lot of purchasing power from the big players.
Imagine you're Micron. Microsoft calls you up and says they'll buy 100% of the output from one of your top tier process lines for the next three years, paying 30% over the current market rate for the privilege. That seems like a win, so you agree.
In agreeing to the big Microsoft deal, the customers that formerly got the output from that production line get to fight over the output from your other lines, and that bids the price up.
odd_orange@reddit
This is semantics and you’re repeating what I said. It’s a choice, not a supply issue. A supply issue would be an interruption of production like we saw with GPUs during Covid.
There’s no unforeseen bottleneck supply side causing this, it’s an economic choice to shift how these companies operate. These are not the same type of ram sticks that they’re providing for consumer use.
The problem isn’t a shortage based on lack of hardware to produce, it’s that there are so few companies running the memory industry who’ve all decided to abandon consumers. As with everything else in the economy now, the lack of competition supply side is breaking an entire industry.
I think that type of nuance matters in relation to the question
Junior_Sir8343@reddit
Main thing you’re missing is that “RAM” in this story is one big DRAM pool: the same fabs that spit out chips for your DDR5 UDIMMs also feed server RDIMMs, HBM for GPUs, etc. When hyperscale AI/data platforms ramp, they don’t just buy more vRAM, they soak up DRAM across the stack: terabytes of DDR5 per node for feature stores, in‑memory caches, vector DBs, and just keeping GPUs fed so they’re not idle.
It’s not some cartoon “harvesting all your data,” it’s mostly boring economics: fabs are capital‑heavy, so they chase highest-margin, most predictable demand. Right now that’s cloud + AI DCs, not DIY gaming rigs. Same wafers, different binning, and consumer DIMMs become the leftover slice.
On the software side, you see the same pattern: stuff like Snowflake, BigQuery, and even tools like DreamFactory, Fivetran, etc., exist to keep data close to compute and queried fast, which in turn drives more dense, memory-hungry infra. That demand shift is what’s pushing your DDR5 prices up.
panzerkiller13@reddit
Different types of data centers will need different types of RAM and other resources. AI? Those ones are going to be heavily focused on VRAM in GPUs, which is probably mostly HBM instead of GDDR nowadays honestly. Enterprise data centers/servers/cloud computing? These would still use both, but there's more of a balance between regular RAM and VRAM so the need is a more direct challenge to the consumer RAM market.
That being said, with a massive increase in demand for HBM or other types I'm not familiar with, I'm sure a portion of the GDDR/DDR RAM manufacturing capacity is shifting over toward HBM and enterprise memory instead. Case in point: Micron is totally shuttering their consumer DDR RAM business and solely focusing on supplying data centers. I'm not going to say I fully understand what's going on either, because there are a lot of these elements at play and stacking on top of each other BEFORE even approaching the "AI/etc companies making closed door deals with manufacturers and developers to play with unlimited money and occupy the entire market space" side.
ClintBIgwood@reddit
Technically they could just keep prices the same, then sell out and keep producing at the same price but the cunts use “supply and demand” to justify “dynamic pricing” so they raise the prices because there’s less and propor are willing to pay.
Greedy assholes reallyZ
anon_lurk@reddit
Yes AI is already on the books for 50% or more of RAM, in 2026 and possibly onwards. Some companies are pulling out of the consumer market. Some companies have already responded saying they will ramp up production over the next few years as well to help offset the problem. All of this tightens supply in 2026 and onwards.
A huge factor in the current price increase that nobody is admitting is that there was indeed a fear based price run, right now, that has had a huge effect on demand.
Everybody and their grandma has been buying all of the RAM they might need over the next couple years(and some people even just to resell it) due to speculation about the supply shortage which has actually caused a supply shortage. People are literally starting to preemptively buy GPUs out of fear that they will go up in price due to VRAM price increasing(which again will be a self fulfilling prophecy). It's the same kind of mob mentality that leads to stock market crashes and bank runs.
That is why we have also seen DDR4 RAM going up(and CPU prices for the good ones that can use DDR4) as people that actually refuse to overpay move to other platforms to upgrade and have started cause fear and overbuying in those markets as well.
c0bra99@reddit
https://www.mooreslawisdead.com/post/sam-altman-s-dirty-dram-deal
Skullzi_TV@reddit
These things happen sometimes. Everything will slowly even back out to normal.
Jirekianu@reddit
So, the supply of VRAM, general pc RAM and even ssd storage is all constrained by flash memory production. The demand among AI for RAM is consuming a large percentage of the base flash memory production.
Imagine you had people at home that wanted to buy bread, but the cost of bread exploded because a bunch of companies were buying up all the flour being milled. So they keep using the flour for a bunch of food items other than bread. Which results in a supply constraint on bread as there isn't enough flour to meet demand.
LugerOfHans@reddit
They need the GPUs for the ALUs (arithmetic logic units) and the Tensor cores for faster AI training. ML and AI are essentially just mathematically complex systems. GPUs allow parallel processing. VRAM helps keep that all close to the GPU.
RAM on the other hand might be for the data center side of things to cache some data or even do some preprocessing.
This is my rough estimate so take it with a grain of salt.
ScottHuang@reddit
AI is now eating other technology as companies try desperately to make it work.
TwitchFamous@reddit
Ai baby, we need more power!
ChaosUncaged@reddit
Thanks for not spending 5 seconds to answer your own question via google.
Anyways, supply and demand.
autopatch@reddit
Data centers are buying up ram at inflated prices, so the foundries changed their production lines to mint the memory they need instead of memory that consumers need at prices that consumers are willing to pay for. It’s expected to clear out in a year and a half.
daveawb@reddit
AI is undoubtedly the major contributor. The scale of the data centres currently being built, specifically to house AI, is unfathomable. Many of these companies have tied up the big manufacturers with massive contracts. The demand is in this space, not in the consumer space. You cannot compare the types of RAM, as none of them will be consumer DDR4/5. Most likely, it'll all be HBM or DRAM being produced.
It doesn't help that manufacturers like Micron have exited the consumer RAM market altogether, which has left a void.
Consumer RAM is still being produced, but much of that production has been diverted to other markets with much higher margins, leaving less for consumer products and therefore driving up prices.
semidegenerate@reddit
DRAM is a bit of a catch-all term that includes most modern volatile memory technologies. DDR4 and DDR5 are both DRAM, as is HBM, and GDDR7.
The main type of volatile memory that isn't DRAM is SRAM, often used as cache on CPUs and GPUs.
daveawb@reddit
You’re right of course, I was trying to be careful with the catch alls to avoid that being a thing when in layman’s terms consumer DDRx is not equal to commercial server DDRx.
semidegenerate@reddit
I definitely understand not wanting to overcomplicate a comment meant for general consumption. I just felt like being pedantic.
Mr_Citation@reddit
In October, OpenAI signed a deal with Samsung and SK Hynix get 40% of their RAM wafer production for the 2026 period. This was done to secure RAM for their ChatGPT system and to deny significant RAM supply to their competitors.
Which worked out exactly to their needs, as OpenAI's competition alongside data centres started purchasing DDR5 RAM leading to price spikes.
More price spikes came up when Samsung and SK Hynix announced they will not be expanding production for 2026. Even Samsung's other divisions are being undersupplied in chips and wafers as they'd make more money selling it for market value. Micron as well ending their Crucial brand.
You might think that this is only 3 companies bending over for AI, but these 3 also produce over 90% of the world supply of memory chips and RAM wafers. The next leading producer iirc would be NANYA who produces 3-4% of the supply, the rest being smaller.
JacketsNest@reddit
Do you see any potential for investment in compa ies like NANYA anytime soon to fix the issue?
Mr_Citation@reddit
Even if there was, you're not gonna see them setting up new fabrication plants any time soon.
If they started building now, I doubt it would be operational until late 2027 or early 2028.
HSR47@reddit
This answer needs to be higher in the thread.
Hedhunta@reddit
Kind of makes you wonder if RAM prices might wreck the world economy. Corporations arent going to just absord the increase in price of every desktop or laptop they deploy in their company. They are going to pass that cost onto consumers.
JacketsNest@reddit
Wouldn't surprise me if Congress and the EU get heavily involved in shutting this cartel down.
OrbitalOutlander@reddit
Read the news. Do basic research on your own.
veryjerry0@reddit
AI data centers use HBM RAM, and that requires much more wafer space. In a nutshell, the RAM required for data centers is much more inefficient to produce. As for why RAM is needed in the first place, you still need to feed the models data. You need HBM RAM to maintain high speed throughput to ensure the GPU gets constant utilization.
MLID has a podcast with Dave Eggleston which may help you understand if you want to get into more details.
Antenoralol@reddit
Companies winding down production of consumer grade memory in favour of the higher profit margin HBM memory that AI likes.
SometimesWill@reddit
Manufacturers are focusing on the data center market rather than the consumer market. Since those manufacturers make all types of memory that means less is being produced for companies that produce ram for consumers such as Corsair or G Skill, going as far as micron even shutting the doors of Crucial.
It’s like how even if you buy a screen from TCL, MSI, or Dell, the panel itself is probably made by a company like Samsung, LG, Sony, etc.
Sett_86@reddit
AI companies quite literally bought them all up.
NotSynthx@reddit
AI
idekl@reddit
I'm actually thoroughly impressed at how much you managed to not read the post.
thebaddadgames@reddit
Well the thing is, you and this op might think of ram as consumer side, whatever Samsung Micron SK Hynix is making consumer side? They make multiples of on business side and when business side wants more they get more, at the cost of consumers. It really is as simple as business wants lot of ram for AI/LLM learning, and those companies know who butter their biscuit why sell Timmy 16gb sticks of ddr5 cl32 for $300 when meta will pay $900 for the same sticks?
semidegenerate@reddit
Meta isn't buying those same sticks as Timmy the gamer. Meta is buying out the fabrication capacity to make the types of RAM Meta wants. Timmy gets screwed because no one wants to make consumer DDR5 DIMMs when they could sell HBM and ECC DDR5 to Meta.
It's a little more complicated than that because the DIMM manufactures are a middleman, not the chip manufacturers, but the point stands.
NotSynthx@reddit
I think it's genuinely a dumb post, it's not some obscure answer, Google and Reddit are full of information on this, seems pointless to ask.
InsertFloppy11@reddit
the answer is still correct. AI models are memory hungry AF and on GPUs only have as much ram.
idekl@reddit
The OP asked for the logical reasoning.
InsertFloppy11@reddit
idk what you mean by that. but the answer is AI.
AI needs to feed a shitton amount of data to the processing unit.
You buy 10 GPUS and you get 100gb of vram
you buy 10 ram modules and you get 320 gb of ram
and guess which one is cheaper (well not so much anymore but you get the picture)
LetsBeNice-@reddit
Op said in the post that it is probably Ai but he would like to understand why. Just answering Ai is showing you didn't read the post.
Whole_Ground_3600@reddit
Chip companies: I'm going to be making less chips for consumer ram and focus on vram for ai stuff instead.
Ram companies: Oh no, I'll have less parts to make my product with, I'll have less to sell, but have the same costs, so I'll raise prices. People still need it, so they'll pay.
AI company execs: *evil laughter*
Everyone else: This sucks.
jimmyjammy6262@reddit
When I was starting off in PC's in the nineties, I used to go to computer fairs a lot, ram prices were so volatile, they were marking and updating prices on a chalkboard like in a bookmakers, I paid £60 for 4mb of ram!
horace_bagpole@reddit
In 1995 there was the Kobe earthquake. At the time, a lot of RAM production was done there and impacted by it. RAM prices spiked and I recall it being well over £100 for a 4MB SIMM. There were even burglaries where thieves targeted memory chips specifically: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/watch-out-there-s-a-ramraider-about-1619629.html
Ceej-Works@reddit
You look for logical reasoning in science and physics. Economics and business are emotionally driven, and prices can be driven by real rational reasons, but those are usually exacerbated by fear or other non-logical factors.
For example, there is probably a real RAM shortage, and that did cause the price to go up. But once it went up, everyone went into panic mode and started buying RAM even if they didn't need it right now, which caused more of a shortage, which caused prices to go higher, which caused more panic and so on so forth, vicious circle.
tavirabon@reddit
It's this. I would not take the details people are giving in this thread as true, most of them aren't, but the broad explanation is correct. OpenAI pulled off 2 deals for raw wafers simultaneously and sent the market into a frenzy to reserve the remaining capacity until the market stabilizes again. The end result is DDR5 going from $8 per 16gb chip to $24+
It is happening globally, but the problem is still exacerbated by trade policies in the US - the memory market was generally in a downturn, which then turned into a lag and bottleneck as everyone suddenly needed to resupply.
Virtualization_Freak@reddit
Someone else (essentially GPU manufacturers) want to pay more for ram than consumers do.
Immolation_E@reddit
Sam Altman Hungers!
SheepherderAware4766@reddit
It's not a RAM shortage, it's a wafer shortage.
Wafers (iirc) are thin silicon plates that designs could be etched into. Whether it gets used for DDR production, HBM, old CPUs, etc entirely depends on who has the cash to purchase it.
Due to the AI bubble, GDDR and HBM have much better returns than regular DDR, so those markets can absorb higher wafer costs and acquire processing stock easier.
roadbikemadman@reddit
Debeers has entered the chat.
"RAM is a girls best friend"
dorting@reddit
Server still need regular RAM also
Bananabandana215@reddit
The logical reason is memory manufacturers want more money. They've been caught price fixing several times. This is no different.
Adviseformeplz@reddit
JESUS! I’ve been fully in the loop of “knowing” that RAM prices have gone up due to AI but I’ve literally never checked the prices until right now after clicking this thread. I assumed maybe like a 25% or so increase?
I’m seeing freaking DDR5 32gb Kits for around $350-$450 after a 30 sec browse on Amazon, Newegg and Bestbuy. Wtf that’s the price of an entry to semi mid level GPU
definitlyitsbutter@reddit
In general ai is a bit of a bubble and a race of who has enough money to burn until it pops and the conpeting firms go bankrupt. Non of the companys involved make a profit with ai.
So there are 3 big ram manufacturers ( n the west), skhynix, micron and samsung, who can decide in the process what ram to make out of the raw wafers. These are rather conservative regarding risk taking, dont ramp up production per se, but rather shift what products they make and cater more to business and ai needs and make big cash there.
Also openAI has fallen a bit behind with their AI model and, in a move to hinder the competition, made contracts with samsung and skhynix to buy 40% of wafer production, so hoarding raw material and drain the market with low stocks before. This led to a chain reaction of business panic buying.
PracticalConjecture@reddit
As a general rule, for an AI focused server you want system RAM to be 2x-3x the available VRAM. That gives lots of room for preprocessing data and staging it to the GPUs.
When your server is running 6x H200s, each with 141GB of VRAM, that means that you need 1-2 terabytes of RAM for each server. Now figure that there are 20 servers in a rack, and a couple thousand racks in a data center...
YouKilledApollo@reddit
This assumes that only demand has increased, and supply somehow isn't part of the equation. Current pricing spike did happen because of the demand increase, but supply is also being artificially suppressed (particularly DDR4), hence the prices increase more than it would if it was just a demand problem. TLDR of the cause is that Korean manufacturers usually end up selling their old machines to Chinese manufacturers, but today are afraid of doing so because of US retaliation.
In the end it's a mix of both, neither help the other, but if we could at least restore supply without playing geopolitics, it'll eventually balance out. But right now the future doesn't seem very bright.
Upset-Ad-8704@reddit (OP)
Is this accurate? I would assume that in the inference scenario, the vRAM stores the model and you can keep feeding inputs to the model to generate the outputs. The inputs are a very small fraction of the model size, so I wouldn't expect you would need much RAM to stage, if staging is important at all.
For training, wouldn't you simply do the preprocessing with vRAM (or RAM) first, then when you have the batch of preprocessed inputs, begin training?
It doesn't strike me as faster to do disk -> RAM -> vRAM vs disk -> vRAM, but I'm not an expert.
Dpek1234@reddit
The same type of fabs make both and can rapidly shift from one to another
enn-srsbusiness@reddit
Micron took billions of public money and went nah lol, all this RAM is 4 my billionaire pedo homies, Trump, Jensen and Cook. You public scrubs can rent our AI driven and not at all biased cloud PCs to work on. If you have a PC at home you are anti American and a pedo.
Cravelordneato@reddit
Greed, it's greed.
NotAlanPorte@reddit
So given that there's only 3 main companies which have been making the various forms of ram for decades and decades, and given eg the crucial consumer brand being dropped entirely, given how prices have tripled, What's to stop a new company forming to try to enter the market?
Wouldn't it be seen as a business opportunity? Or is the issue that the technology for manufacturing is so complicated that a fourth company wouldn't manage to make ram chips any cheaper than the current insane prices as they don't have the experience?
Ar_phis@reddit
Regular RAM (system memory) is important to handle everything outside of the LLM's work. While the work is done on vRAM, all the requests and interaction requires conventional system memory.
Just like regular servers need system memory, but AI servers have added GPUs with vRAM to perform their task.
vRAM to do AI, RAM to let people interact with it.
On the supply side, DDR4 production is phasing out, manufacturers are shifting those capabilites to DDR5, HBM and maybe some GDDR.
At the same time manufacturers had an overproduction earlier this year, selling memory at loss. They are not aiming to ramp up production to the point of overproducing again. Somewhat telling about their lack of trust in the AI boom to continue.
Samsung even shifts its HBM production partially to DDR5 as they have excess HBM3 in stock. It was supposed to be for Nvidia, but many delays caused Nvidia to cancel the deal. Also HBM4 is about to enter the market.
Micron has sold out its entire HBM production for 2026 already.
On the demand side, OpenAI alone secured 40% of SK Hynix' and Samsung's entire production for the next months, which is equal to ~28% of the total production. The Stargate project is eating tons of ressources.
Manufacturers don't offer long term contracts anymore and buyers have less security.
Btw, Micron closing Crucial gets overexaggerated by many. The price is made way before the consumer brands would have any chance to "compete". Micron still sells memory to RAM manufacturers if they are willing to pay. Crucial was a Micron' means to sell their stock which becomes irrelevant when they don't have any stock.
Similarly, Samsung (semiconductor) doesn't even provide RAM to Samsung (smartphone branch) by default anymore.
sakcaj@reddit
Demand > supply
The_gender_bender_69@reddit
Ai and greed
Ornery_Hall@reddit
Not only RAM price, the HDD/SSD all going up this holiday season, I get next is graphic card, laptop or anything that have build-in memory.
jasovanooo@reddit
greed. as always
MTPWAZ@reddit
The answer for any price going up is supply vs demand. Demand is high right now for people who do not care how much it will cost them because they have unlimited funds at the moment.
HisDivineOrder@reddit
Nvidia gave OpenAI, an AI company, a lot of money to keep the revenue passaround going, but instead of just passing it on to AMD or Oracle like usual, OpenAI saw DDR5 was getting low in price and thought using it as a down payment on every stick of ram set to be manufactured in 2026 sounded like a better investment.
Nvidia saw them and realized a rise in RAM costs would give them cover to raise prices in the GPU space again plus let them renegotiate the whole bundling RAM part of GPU partnerships with all their AIB partners.
And if no one can afford to build a PC but has a Steam library, well, more people funneled to their GeForce Now cloud gaming service.
It's a Win-Win-Win.
Rad_YT@reddit
Supply 📉Demand📈
L3monPi3@reddit
If you make bread and cookies and bread price spikes, you reduce cookie production and focus on the bread. On top of that you increase prices cause people are hungry.
Current_Finding_4066@reddit
You can use fabs to make different kinds of ram. If you divert production....
seraphinth@reddit
yeah which is why if AI collapses overnight the market won't be seeing cheap DDR5 sticks from servers instantly sold on the market as very little of it is being produced right now. Instead we get a flood of exotic motherboards with soldered ram and cpu+gpu+tensor cores from Aliexpress sold cheap.
NYdude777@reddit
Ask chatGPT
Vashsinn@reddit
Essentially. The people who make the ram are getting paid approx 100x ( no joke) the entire consumer markets worth from the AI peeps so much so that they are going to stop selling / making regular ram and focus on ram for the AI companies. Vram or not, doesn't matter too much ad the factories can make one or the other.
Ofc there's more to it but Tldr crucial is not Making CONSUMER ram.
Sundraw01@reddit
Along with the AI discussion, it seems to me that laptops and mini PCs are being pushed much more commercially, in many cases the RAM premium in those contexts is not that significant.
GuideBeautiful2724@reddit
You still need a bit of RAM for any system, and it always helps to have more in certain situations.
IIRC, it's not that hard to end up in a place where there are no graphics cards with enough VRAM for your model.
9okm@reddit
The same factories make both. They're prioritizing the stuff that gets used for AI applications.
KmartCentral@reddit
AI runs "better" with vRAM, but it runs on RAM as well. Most people who use AI locally have 128GB minimum for AI usage... imagine the vast business that host the models 24/7 for global use by literally anyone, and it's their entire reason for existing