Is it normal these days to keep cameras on for all meetings with no exceptions?

Posted by kouro_sensei_007@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 544 comments

Basically the title. We have a Head of Engineering who's very insistent that we have cameras on for all meetings irrespective of where you are and what your circumstance under the guise of "i dont judge". We work hybrid with 2 days a week in office so i mostly just throw a shirt on and join meetings on days when i m WFH. But this mandatory rule type requirement has been driving me crazy. She has forced people to switch on their cameras even if they're sick, running noses, looking dishaveled, etc, and is very nosy about whats going on for them to not turn it on. Lot of them (including me) comply because she has a tendency to throw a tantrum or yell. I m this close to telling her respectfully that i dont have to tell you a reason and i am not very comfortable turning my camera on if i m working from home. Is this the norm in companies now? I get that you can put on a filter but i am not happy showing my face when i m sick or havent showered or just when i am at home in general.

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Key-Alternative5387@reddit

It's a good default. Seeing people's faces fosters trust because you can see facial expressions and such. It's usually a little flexible.

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moggofrog@reddit

Absolutely this. Non verbal communication is so important and is completely lost when everyone has cameras off. Especially when it's meant to be a conversation with a group and you can't tell if people are listening, speaking but accidentally on mute, popped off to the front door to receive a parcel etc. I don't give a shit what you look like on a call, I don't care if your hair is greasy or your t-shirt is ripped or whatever, I just want to know I'm not communicating into the void.

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WinEnvironmental8085@reddit

I have a colleague who isn’t very productive but always keeps the camera on even if they are just listening and not contributing at all

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gefahr@reddit

Agree. My org is cameras on by default, 100% of the time. But also we're not *insane* so if someone joins with video off and says in the chat "keeping my camera off, [not feeling well | eating lunch | whatever]" that's also 100% fine and no one would give it a second thought unless it's all the time for them.

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FeliusSeptimus@reddit

"... but I'll keep my mic on so you know I'm here" Proceeds with lunch of hot soup and corn nuts.

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garlicNinja@reddit

Take a lunch break

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gefahr@reddit

hahaha. Drives me insane when people eat with their mics on. Fortunately the noise suppression in Zoom has gotten a lot better in recent years.

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1_4_1_5_9_2_6_5@reddit

What gets me is that I'm the only one using headphones. Every single other person at my company has my voice blasting through their house at full volume, and I can hear it through feedback. Is that normal for you guys? How is that better for anyone?

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gefahr@reddit

That's even worse. I'm curious what platform you guys use for video calls, and what kind of hardware people are on. Zoom on modern MacBooks (they have hardware - a mic array - that allows for this) this is like a solved problem, the noise and echo suppression is insane. Google Meet is much worse, but way ahead of where it used to be a couple years ago.

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acommentator@reddit

Have you noticed a correlation between being off camera and speaking/participating less in meetings? The strongest tell is when everyone leaves the meeting at the end except for one off camera person.

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H1Supreme@reddit

But I'm usually looking at my own tiny square the whole time. Idk know what other people are facially expressing.

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DreamsOfLife@reddit

This. Default is camera on but if you have a reason, you can turn it off. The most common reason is "I'm eating and don't want to look gross". I usually say that excuse when I can't be bothered to put on make-up 😄

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wise_beyond_my_beers@reddit

Yeah I'm fulltime wfh and complaining about seeing the person you're talking to sounds crazy to me. Is this a generational thing? I know gen alpha can barely manage talking on the phone, is this an extension of that?

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apartment-seeker@reddit

wth is "Gen Alpha" ;___;

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caffeinated_wizard@reddit

Our entire field relies on “Google it”

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DenverBill@reddit

Not showing my facial expressions has probably prevented me from being fired. A bit more seriously, before remote work, I did not participate much in meetings. After, with cameras off, I am much more active. And it's not just due to growth since in-office work stopped; I started being more active, and heard, within a couple months of remote starting.

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IBJON@reddit

I'm not turning my camera on unless I'm meeting with a customer or someone high up in the company. I'm not setting up a camera in my personal space because someone wants to micromanage. I maintain a workspace in my home, so my job, and I'm available whenever someone needs me. There is zero reason to have a camera or to see my face unless it's someone who isn't familiar with me or doesn't know me at all.

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AbbreviationsFar4wh@reddit

Lol so aggro. People so worried about others seeing their space… just set a background in app Im camera off most of the time but find it wild people are so offended by being camera on sometimes

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IBJON@reddit

Right, it's "aggro" to not want a camera connected to the Internet through a device my employer can access whenever they want. It's "aggro" to not want my employer dictating that I should have a camera set up in my home. And hey, maybe if you got your employer's ballsacknout of your mouth, you'd see that I actually mentioned several reasons where I would gladly have my camera on, so I'm clearly okay with having it on when necessary

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ReplacementBig7068@reddit

Get help

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IBJON@reddit

Says the dude who came back to a month old thread just to talk shit

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AbbreviationsFar4wh@reddit

Even more aggro!

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zurnout@reddit

Why do you put your camera on for customers? What did they do to deserve it but not your coworkers?

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IBJON@reddit

Because my coworkers don't care if I have my camera on or not, and most of them would rather not have it on themselves.

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well_educated_maggot@reddit

Imo it's just disrespectful to have camera off a lot. Imagine being the talker and not seeing a reaction. Remote is hard as it is as it erases a lot of body language which is important to communicate well. Yes it's tiring to see yourself constantly in the small frame, I know, but if you want good culture turn the camera on.

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grauenwolf@reddit

It wasn't disrespectful to have audio only conference calls a decade ago. Why is it suddenly disrespectful now? What changed?

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Izacus@reddit

Because you worked in office then.

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grauenwolf@reddit

I worked in an office, but all the people I worked with were in different offices. Go back another decade to around 2001 and I was working fully remote.

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Izacus@reddit

Well... good for you? You asked what changed and I gave you an answer about why the social norm changed. What you personally did in 2000s has nothing to do with that since you're not the main character of this world.

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grauenwolf@reddit

My point is that nothing actually changed to justify this nrw obsession with cameras.

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Izacus@reddit

Well, that's where you're wrong.

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zurnout@reddit

Back them we didn’t have a choice. Now we choose to not let the other person see us.

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grauenwolf@reddit

Video phone technology was available in 1970. There was a choice for the last 55 years. While you think of a better answer, allow me to add a second question. When did it cease to be disrespectful to demand someone put themselves on display?

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zurnout@reddit

I go to shower and put on clean shirts before I go to grocery store and say hello when a store employee greets me. I get “put on display” doing the most mundane things. In fact it doesn’t even feel that way to me. I just don’t get why I shouldn’t give the same amount of respect to my coworkers who I associate more with

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grauenwolf@reddit

No you don't. The clerk at the grocery store doesn't follow you around staring at your face for your entire time at the store. The clerk looks at you briefly to greet you, then spends the majority of the time looking at your groceries before looking up one final time to accept your payment.

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zurnout@reddit

I “stare” at the people that is speaking, just like in real life. What are you talking about?

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grauenwolf@reddit

Do you actually know what the word "stare" means? Do you not know the difference between making occasional eye contact and looking directly at someone's face for long periods of time? If not, that is probably why you don't understand why being constantly filmed makes some people uncomfortable.

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zurnout@reddit

I know what stare means. I felt like you used it incorrectly and that’s why I used quotes. Who is staring at you in when you open your camera? How is it different than when you are in a live meeting with real people in a meeting room? Is your problem that you can’t see if someone is staring at you like in real life? My whole argument is around that you don’t hide yourself in real life from coworkers but for some reason people feel the need to hide themself when having a virtual meeting

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grauenwolf@reddit

> How is it different than when you are in a live meeting with real people in a meeting room? Apparently you don't know what it means. Staring involves continuously looking at a person. And that's what those cameras do. From person A's perspective, everyone else is looking directly at them the entire time. Never looking at anyone else, always directly at them. In a meeting, most people only look at whomever is currently speaking. And that's assuming they aren't looking at the presentation material or their notes.

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mmcnl@reddit

It wasn't the norm then, a lot of people didn't havr cameras, the software wasn't there yet.

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grauenwolf@reddit

The invention of camera's is not in itself justification to allow people to constantly film you at work.

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aseradyn@reddit

Agree. As a team lead, I find small meetings where cameras are all off very painful. We'll need to discuss an upcoming story, and I'll ask a question, maybe for opinions or ideas on an architectural decision, and just get crickets. It's like talking to a wall, no feedback at all. At least if folks have cameras on I can see thumbs up, nods, head shakes, thinking expressions, something to tell me that communication is actually happening. But some meetings are really just for information dissemination. Someone is giving a presentation, everyone else is there to learn. I'm perfectly fine with cameras off in that situation.

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InfectedShadow@reddit

Yup. And having a few of our junior and mid level devs in the office I can see them on their phones when cameras are off.

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nonasiandoctor@reddit

That probably means they don't need to be in that meeting.

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InfectedShadow@reddit

Considering it's standup/acceptance demos and story refinements, yes they absolutely do. It's their time to clarify, plan and ask questions, on current or upcoming work. Instead we have to then have adhoc meetings for these questions they could have brought to refinement or standup.

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grauenwolf@reddit

If people aren't engaging in the conversation that's a pretty good indicator that the conversation didn't need to happen. Consider refining your invitation list.

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anubus72@reddit

nope, they just dont care enough to engage. they want you to deal with it so they can work 2 hours a day on simple tickets and fuck around the rest of the day

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novasilverpill@reddit

sounds like bad management and bad hiring practices

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grauenwolf@reddit

That's hilarious. Are you just taking the piss or to do actually think watching them intently in a 30 minute call will somehow get then to work harder the rest of the day?

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mmcnl@reddit

Hard disagree. Meetings occur when there is a need to discuss something, doesn't matter if you like it or not. What are you, a child? Sometimes people need something from you whether you like it or not.

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grauenwolf@reddit

The key word here is "discuss". If you have people in the meeting that aren't talking, what are they doing there?

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mmcnl@reddit

Good question, what do we do with people who dot do what is asked of them?

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grauenwolf@reddit

Well that depends if the request is reasonable or is to support your voyeuristic habits.

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mmcnl@reddit

Meetings are reasonable and not voyeuristic. You assume bad faith.

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grauenwolf@reddit

There is no irony here. When senior management makes promises to dramatically increase the scope of a project without changing the deadline, that's usually not a conversation where developers are in the room. That decision usually happens in a private phone call or over dinner. *** As for "not participating in meetings", that's a claim that tells me you don't have a valid complaint and just don't like that people aren't paying attention to you. Valid complaints are usually in the form of "Refuses to answer questions about their work" or "Unable to provide a status update". Something specific, not just a vague "doesn't participate" as if you're talking about a child who self-isolates during recess. And since the vague "doesn't participate" is your only justification for demanding a camera be recording them constantly during meetings, that one falls flat as well. It's not like you are even attempting to make positive claims such as "cameras improve productivity".

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WhosePenIsMightier@reddit

Ding ding ding. As a lead, I also prefer cameras off. Most meetings can be emails or chats. Real work is usually done in small groups

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AbbreviationsFar4wh@reddit

Team issue? Do ppl feel comfortable sharing? Our team meetings are almost always camera off and we all share plenty ideas. We turn cameras on for retro

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aseradyn@reddit

I think the biggest current issue is that this team had several strong mid and senior level devs, who were all recently reassigned, leaving the team with mostly junior devs who had been accustomed to being able to just sit and listen during discussions. I'm asking more of them now, and that's still new and uncomfortable.

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AbbreviationsFar4wh@reddit

Ah yea. Fair. In that case camera on might force them to confront the silence. People can only stare at each other in silence for so long before someone gets too uncomfortable and has to speak. Easy to dodge that when camera is off.

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thelochteedge@reddit

I hear ya. Not a team lead but my team lead turned me on to keeping my mic unmuted all the time (I host quite a few meetings these days too) and it’s kinda stuck with me. I laugh or make sounds and make the person talking feel less like they’re speaking into an empty box. The crickets is extremely awkward and he’ll call people out on it but the one person he won’t call out is me now because I’m always unmuted and often on camera unless it’s a meeting when I’m eating.

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mmcnl@reddit

Surprised to see so many people are OK with cameras off. I fully agree with this.

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well_educated_maggot@reddit

Must be a culture/age related thing I imagine. Noticed that at my work place especially younger genZ and the boomers don't like to use camera while everyone between tries to keep it on.

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utdconsq@reddit

100%. I don't mind people wanting to do remote most of their life, but you sure as hell will do me the respect of turning your camera on. One area this helps is it can be obvious when someone is doing other random work instead of listening. I cannot, utterly cannot abide when I ask a question of someone clearly doing something else and they say 'sorry, I just missed that, can you repeat?'. Think about how you'd feel, people, it ain't hard. You want to be ignored like what youre saying is meaningless? All hands are excused to some extent.

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Revilo62@reddit

I'm the "sorry, I just missed that, can you repeat?" person. Stop scheduling meeting that could have been an email if you want me to pay attention. Earn the respect of cameras by having meetings that are actually meaningful. I have more important things to do with my time; I'll start rejecting meetings if I'm not able to multitask.

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utdconsq@reddit

Are you kidding me? You should absolutely reject the invite if there's no agenda and it's irrelevant.

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gnuban@reddit

Imagine phone conferences. Disrespectful, I tell you!

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sarhoshamiral@reddit

I dont have to imagine them, I remember them and they were in no way as effective as video conferences.

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gastro_psychic@reddit

For you.

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sarhoshamiral@reddit

For sure and I will admit that I have a lot of difficulty listening to other side when their camera is closed. My mind wonders off very quickly. Fortunately our larger team culture is cameras on so I don't have difficulty here. And for cases where I am talking, if other side has camera closed and don't engage then I rightfully assume they are not listening (which is usually proven by the fact that they don't actually hear the question I presented to them directly and have to say "sorry can you repeat again").

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gastro_psychic@reddit

People are so boring in meetings. It just seems normal to tune out.

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OnlyTwoThingsCertain@reddit

Man, you DON'T want to see my reactions.

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Mumen-Rider-VA@reddit

my reactions that I would be faking anyways just to be polite

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Quietwulf@reddit

You mean.. like the teleconferences we made do with for decades before we had video? People managed then, they can manage now.

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Bobby-McBobster@reddit

> Imagine being the talker and not seeing a reaction. Imagine being so insecure about yourself that you need to see other people's faces when talking about work.

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Darkmayday@reddit

Disrespectful lmao

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ChineseAstroturfing@reddit

I find it very strange and uncomfortable to talk to a group without being able to see them. Like ok, I’m just alone here talking in to my computer screen? It’s so unnatural.

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tantrumizer@reddit

I agree. I find it disrespectful too. Unless it's more like a seminar where most people are just listening.

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renq_@reddit

I hope so! How did you cope with working in an office? Did you wear paper bags over your heads to hide your facial expressions?

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yetiflask@reddit

I don't like a camera shoved in my fucking face. If people want to see me, feel free to have an in-person meeting. If you're a lazy fuck who can't commute, don't subject me to a camera. It's an argument I always have. It's your choice to not travel to office, and it's my choice to not sit in front of a cam.

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yon_@reddit

I got harassed by a coworker for not having my camera on, to the point she complained so much to my manager. Though that then led to me not being able to move or look anywhere but dead centre because she assumed (and only for me) that me looking at another part of my screen (notes most the time) was me not paying attention! My other coworkers could be looking at a different screen or in the kitchen and she was fine with that. So I have issues turning my camera on because of that, I also don’t like people seeing me on camera, it’s a comfort thing.

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NeuralHijacker@reddit

Makes me glad I'm autistic lol, I'd be straight to HR with that shit.

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yon_@reddit

Autistic here too. When I ended up being put on a PIP at that company and had a meeting with HR over it, they didn't care at all about many of the issues I raised! Including a performance goal of "Talk more in meetings" and going through every commit I'd made in a week with my manager, they saw no issues with any of this. Only one they talked to my manager about was the fact he said I shouldn't be using external screens and should be entirely using just the laptop screen for work.

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NeuralHijacker@reddit

Gah that sounds awful. Which country are you in ? I'm in UK and we have decent protections here

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yon_@reddit

It was, my manager found every opportunity to berate me and my skills. I was in the UK for that job and wish I’d done something more about it all but unfortunately the job did a number on my mental health to the point I had to quit so I didn’t punch my ticket. Hell after I can back from stress leave the first words my manager said to me was “the work you left when you went on stress leave wasn’t good enough” even though my team had no issue with the state my code was left in!

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NeuralHijacker@reddit

That's a shame you were in such a bad way, you could probably have gotten a nice settlement by taking them to employment tribunal. They sound like idiots. Sorry to hear it was so rough.

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sheriffderek@reddit

I don’t enjoy talking to avatars - and I generally don’t want to work with people who don’t want to be on camera. Well sometimes say hello - look I’m a mess today (sick/eating while I listen) or something. But in general - meetings are about communication. Seeing each others faces and reactions and things - is a huge part of that interaction. To me, this just shows immaturity and insecurity and self-centeredness. This type of person would be the first I’d vote to fire.

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WeeRedBird@reddit

They need to be off for big meetings. Having to sit for an hour and look interested for an hour when only 15 minutes of the meeting concerns me, is not a good use of my time. I put on subtitles, do some other work and come back to the meeting if my name or discipline so I can read what they said before my name is called and jump straight in to an answer.

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Material_Policy6327@reddit

Depends on the company. Mine doesn’t give a shit

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PoopsCodeAllTheTime@reddit

Ah, so they are smart!

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anubus72@reddit

nothing worse than talking to a bunch of black screens and nobody contributes to discussions. at least having a camera on kinda forces you to pretend to be paying attention

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AaronBonBarron@reddit

That's a culture problem, not a cameras off problem.

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PoopsCodeAllTheTime@reddit

> pretend to be paying attention And this is a solution to what exactly?

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Sauerkrauttme@reddit

If people aren't paying attention, then why even have the meeting?

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PoopsCodeAllTheTime@reddit

This question will continue to be ignored by all the HR departments and CEOs of the world. How will you stay motivated if you don't join the all hands meeting where we discuss the record profits along the next layoff threat?

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IHoppo@reddit

Have you never been on a call and ignored the proceedings so you could continue to work/doomscroll?

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PoopsCodeAllTheTime@reddit

So, pretending to pay attention? :)

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IHoppo@reddit

:) , well, yeah. Gotta admit, I prefer camera on. To me, it just shows a bit of respect. But I appreciate that's a personal perspective.

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PoopsCodeAllTheTime@reddit

I am really confused, to me: pretending != respect.

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IHoppo@reddit

Apologies. You used the word "pretending" and I didn't want to get into a disagreement, it's the internet and that never goes well. 😂 If my camera is on, then I'm paying attention - I have my laptop on a shelf too (with a large 2nd screen on my desk to work from) so on calls, I'm standing up, not on my keyboard, giving my colleague the attention I'd like back, just as if I was in a room with them.

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PoopsCodeAllTheTime@reddit

IMHO, if people aren't paying attention then the issue is with the meeting. Either their performance is on the line and the meeting material is relevant, in which they will pay attention without a camera. Or the meeting material is irrelevant and there is no pressure for them to carry their weight, in which case cameras won't make a difference. Managers with big egos and a lot of wasteful meetings would never admit this though.

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PoopsCodeAllTheTime@reddit

Yeah we were talking about how having the camera on often leads to people _pretending_ to pay attention, which is even worse than just _not paying attention_. If you are paying attention because your camera is ON, then that's great for you. I don't think that it works this way for everyone and therefore not a panacea, many times just an inconvenience to people's life, to me it is a detriment to my ability to listen closely because it is even more distracting to have a bunch of faces and become overly aware of my image.

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Shookfr@reddit

Yeah same. Most of the time we start with the camera to say hi and have a little chat. Then deactivate it when someone starts presenting something.

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Tyhgujgt@reddit

Forced cameras on is neurodivergent bullying. One day maybe companies that stop paying lip service to diversity and acceptance and start actually doing something.

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mc-funk@reddit

I feel like our industry overall used to be accidentally neurodivergent friendly, but more and more it’s intentionally neurodivergent-hostile :/

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Tyhgujgt@reddit

I agree. And I think it hurts business as much as it hurts people.

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a_library_socialist@reddit

Jesus, you've gone full circle and called your failures health here

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Tyhgujgt@reddit

One day

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gnuban@reddit

The extroverts tend to throw a hizzy fit over not turning the cameras on, seeing it as some sort of deviance or something. The introverts seem to find turning them on intrusive and distracting. I'm in the latter camp, but unfortunately extrovert norms are taking over in the industry.

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commonsearchterm@reddit

im pretty introverted but find meetings with cameras just easier. no hard rule, i know people have things going on the background or w/e and can have genuine reasons for keeping them off.

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DenverBill@reddit

Yeah, for some reason it's important that introverts get out of their comfort zone, but it's unthinkable for extroverts.

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zurnout@reddit

As an introvert, I couldn’t disagree more. Being an introvert doesn’t mean wanting to avoid social situations. If being social is going out of your comfort zone, you have social anxiety.

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Phonomorgue@reddit

Mine doesnt care, and yeah its culture. Doesn't really serve a purpose for any worthwhile intent.

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raceface99@reddit

In my book you should turn on your camera all the time unless you have a reaaaaally good reason not to. In the meantime office you don't hide under the table in meetings. Should be the same in a online meeting. I personally find it quite blunt and counter productive/collaborative to have someone always leave the camera off in meetings.

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forgottenHedgehog@reddit

It depends on the company culture, totally expected to have cameras on at my last two companies. It's difficult to read people's reactions without seeing them.

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gemengelage@reddit

At my current job it really differs from group to group. There are people who prefer to have cameras on and usually the rest of the meeting politely follows by turning on their cameras, unless it's a big meeting and you don't have a particularly active role in it. On the other hand I've seen a few people who kept their webcams off as the only person in like an eight person meeting and while I personally perceive that as a tiny bit impolite, it's never addressed or even enforced. They probably have some kind of reason.

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aeroverra@reddit

Nope I don't care. I will not turn my camera on. I turned it on one time when I was introduced to my new boss. And one time when I was introduced to my new offshore employees. If an employee of mine would prefer it I would do it otherwise I will make it very clear that I'm not turning my camera on because of peer pressure or because some director wants to feel important. Not happening. Fire me if you don't like it.

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gemengelage@reddit

But why? What's there to lose? I also don't particularly like turning my camera on in big meeting just so people can see that I'm not slacking off, but what's the big deal?

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Division2226@reddit

Exactly it's not a big deal, it can stay off.

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Tiny-Sink-9290@reddit

I pick my nose a lot.. really dont want people seeing that.

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aeroverra@reddit

>so people can see that I'm not slacking off This is not a feeling I would want me employees feeling and it's not a culture I care to take part in myself. Also I simply don't want to.

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TitanTowel@reddit

It's never occurred to me that people think I'm being polite. In fairness I don't use mine simply because I can't be arsed, even if I'm doing most of the talking.

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gemengelage@reddit

I mean when everyone else in the meeting went through the trouble of making themselves presentable, turning their webcam on and allowing that tiny bit of vulnerability by showing themselves, it always feels odd when one person just doesn't participate. It's really not a big deal, at least to me, but it is odd. Are you not a herd animal, like the rest of us?

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aeroverra@reddit

>Are you not a herd animal, like the rest of us? Nah that's why I won't do it.

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coyoteazul2@reddit

I have little requests for my herd. Don't bother me and I won't bother you. If you want to go the extra mile and let people see your face, I don't mind. But don't expect me to do the same just because you did

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BorderKeeper@reddit

The big difference between you and the person you are replying to imo is that they are in a well functioning well defined team of people who work with each other tightly, like, and respect each other, while you most likely have a big loose team where you mostly give status reports. Of course I wouldn’t care about my camera in your case, but in my company there’s 5 people in my team and I care what others have to say.

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TitanTowel@reddit

It just didn't occur to me. I spend most of my meetings looking at Miro/confluence so people's camera's aren't typically on my screen.

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ApolloCreed@reddit

☝️ rage bait

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unholycurses@reddit

“Can’t be arsed” is kind of the impolite part…communication is much more than just the words we say. Our facial expressions and body language deeply matter. Camera off is fine for some situations, but in smaller meetings I see why some orgs really push for cameras on.

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theDarkAngle@reddit

yeah i dont like turning mine on same as most people, but it \*is\* better overall for communication, cohesion, and even efficiency, if everyone generally does.

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ltdanimal@reddit

When I was at an old school tech company and meetings happened it would be just audio most of the time. I didn't realize how horrible and disconnecting it was until I moved on. Such a huge loss of understanding and empathy without it and felt very disconnected. Also maybe not hot take, but if OP is sick then don't "come in" to work, and if you are working then it's a pretty fair ask to be available to have a video call.

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oupablo@reddit

Yup. We typically have them on for calls with a couple people but nobody balks if you don't turn it on. It's also not uncommon for someone to leave it off because they're eating during the meeting. Only the speakers will have them on for really large meetings.

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devtools-dude@reddit

Agreed depends on culture. Ours is optional. Most leave theirs own. I'll turn mine on for 1:1s if my colleague has theirs own to just be courteous, but in general no one really cares.

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Competitive-Sky712@reddit

Should be discretionary, but seeing the face of people can sometimes help understanding the conversation. It should not be a requirement, especially if the call happens at weird times during the early morning, late night

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Strutching_Claws@reddit

Yes its 100% normal.

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Suspicious-Basis-885@reddit

Camera use in meetings really varies by company culture. It can definitely enhance engagement, but it should also allow for some flexibility when needed.

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SilverFoxSEA@reddit

I hold a ton of meetings and typically when it’s with my management peers or HR, our cameras are on but that’s a light requirement. Management meetings are more about relationship building so body language helps with those types of meeting. HR meetings almost always demand that they’re on; I’m not a fan of that “demand” but I comply regardless. With my reports or other SW devs, they keep theirs off. And frankly, I don’t care. I do put on mildly ridiculous Team video backgrounds like Max Headroom and recently a Rick Roll background for levity though.

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jl2352@reddit

When I joined where I work it was common to have cameras on 100% of the time. It was asked and no one said anything, it had just been normalised. Since joining I have managed to get that down. I encourage people to turn their cameras off for various reasons. I myself have my camera off many times. You should learn to become comfortable on video calls with the camera on, just as a life skill. i.e. So you can feel more comfortable giving an update, and that just tends to go better if you do have your camera on.

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Regal_Kiwi@reddit

I am very pro remote work, 100% remote even. The least you can do is turn on your camera during meetings.

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Nimweegs@reddit

In my experience it's cameras on, except meetings with more than 10 people, like a company or business unit wide thing. I default to camera on. In one-on-ones with people I know well I really don't care, I'm better able to feel the vibes through voice I've worked with a person who always wanted to have his camera off, even smaller meetings with just the team and it was off-putting. Tl;dr exception is big meetings, there camera on is discouraged even

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Jinoc@reddit

There's no such expectation at my company, though I suspect it would make sense.

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headhonchobitch@reddit

red flag toxic team lead, probably an idiotic control freak

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NytronX@reddit

Top two comments are botted.

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gefahr@reddit

lol get real. No one cares about this sub enough to try to do influence campaigns here for "camera on". Very weird conspiracy theory.

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forgottenHedgehog@reddit

I love how the main argument for having cameras off is insults in this thread.

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forgottenHedgehog@reddit

Where is my check for wanting to work with humans?

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brrnr@reddit

Oh so you're just a garden variety bootlsucking sycophantic loser trying to drag everyone down with you, that's way better

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SypeSypher@reddit

Most of the places I've worked have been cameras off, personally I find cameras on hurts my ability to focus. Cameras on means there's a pressure to "look like you're paying attention" but for me that means I'm focusing more on looking presentable and not fidgetting a ton that I can't pay attention as well There's been a few studies as well that found that most of the issues with "zoom fatigue" were caused by being on camera rather than actually sitting in a meeting.

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mc-funk@reddit

This is especially true for neurodivergent folks. Add chronic illness and why am I spending my limited energy to be a face actor so someone can visually determine I am engaged, when I can just as easily use chat, emojis, and my voice to show that I am engaged? And if someone thinks I need to be on camera to “show respect”, I *really* need to not be in a job where I have to work with that person. I do it when I can, I don’t do it when I can’t. It’s not that big of a deal in-of itself.

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ChineseGravelBike@reddit

You know you’re not special. Everyone feels like that. Why are you entitled to turn your camera off?

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mc-funk@reddit

That’s very interesting that you perceive other people having the autonomy to manage their own access needs when it doesn’t harm the quality of their participation or contributions as them being “entitled” and thinking they are “special”. It’s actually pretty entitled to think you can dictate the specific ways in which other people show up.

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taznado@reddit

Totally. Camera on means you are putting on an act in a critical, technical field. This isn't showbiz where you can be inexact.

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gastro_psychic@reddit

Agree

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LejonBrames117@reddit

i'm skeptical that they're throwing tantrums but if they are then that's not normal, in case you really wanted that answered

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IAmADev_NoReallyIAm@reddit

Our company it's "standard" cameras off, optional to have them on... reason being... we're too big and scattered that we'd bring the infrastructure down if we had all of us on camera. The lag & bufferiing is bad enough when we just have the CEO do the talks, let alone trying to other meetings. So the standard has become cameras off unless really needed. Plus it gets really jarring watchingTeams trying to keep up with displaying the current video image of the person talking. What we've also found is that more people are likely to turn them on if they don't have to, if you give them the choice. A lot of our policies are like that - treat the employees like adults and not fucking children that need constant babysitting. Works out pretty well.

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H1Supreme@reddit

We turn ours on probably twice a year. Idk about your meetings, but someone's screen sharing most of the time, so cameras would be mostly pointless.

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false79@reddit

If you are using a work computer with an MDM installed, under the guise of "Asset Managment", it doesn't matter whether you have the camera on or off. They are watching you anyways, lol

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Advanced-Violinist36@reddit

I always have camera off unless it is required. But I will be okay if my boss require me to put it on 100% on meetings. It's still much better to be at home with camera on, than be present in the office.

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GumboSamson@reddit

I think it depends on your company’s culture. And your company’s culture is going to depend on the culture of the employees. For instance, I live in New Zealand. We tend towards high-context communication—_how you say something_ is usually given more weight than the exact words you use. (Facial expression, posture, tone, etc.) When cameras are turned off, it measurably hampers communication here. In contrast, the US tends towards _lower-context_ communication (relative to New Zealand). Usually, hearing (but not seeing) the other person isn’t going to cause miscommunication. In other words—_are you communicating effectively within your org_ should be the driving question behind whether or not cameras should be used. And that answer is going to be different depending on who you’re communicating with.

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camelCaseCoffeeTable@reddit

As a manager, sure, that should be your consideration. OP is an employee. The top consideration should be “does management require cameras to be turned on,” and if so, then you turn them on. It doesn’t matter if you think you can communicate fine with it off or not, if having cameras on is a requirement for a job, turn your camera on.

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Revilo62@reddit

I'd be finding a new job if that became a requirement for *every* meeting. I'm usually multi-tasking or fidgeting with something. I don't need others analyzing my every facial expression that has nothing to do with the conversation. If it's a more personal 1 on 1 meeting I'm fine turning it on, but when PM sends an invite to a dozen or more people to go over their functional spec, I'm not turning the camera on.

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camelCaseCoffeeTable@reddit

Yep, that would by my exact advice to OP, and was: find a new job. If it’s too difficult for you to turn your camera on at a company that requires it, you are not able to meet the requirements of your job and should leave before it impacts your reputation and possibly your career. Especially if you can’t do it because you’re too busy not paying attention to the meeting…

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gastro_psychic@reddit

The camera nazis are really out in full force.

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camelCaseCoffeeTable@reddit

They might be. I’m more of a “if you can’t fulfill the basic requirements of your job, you shouldn’t work there” guy

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gastro_psychic@reddit

It isn’t a requirement where I work. I think people should be fired when their meetings go over time. Can’t keep a schedule? It is either narcissism or poor executive function. Time to find another job where they can waste someone else’s time.

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camelCaseCoffeeTable@reddit

That’s great, it is at OP’s work and that’s what we’re talking about. If you’re being paid to work somewhere, you should be able to meet the basic requirements of the job. Especially when it’s something as simple as “turn your cameras on”

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gastro_psychic@reddit

No one ever mentions it in interviews. Is it in the company handbook. Anyway, you can keep making up things and downvoting me.

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SolidDeveloper@reddit

A lot of company policies aren't mentioned in interviews. But as the other person said, if some things are especially important to you, ask about them in the interview.

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Swamplord42@reddit

If it matters to you, you should find a way to ask.

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GumboSamson@reddit

Fair enough.

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wearecyborg@reddit

Genuinely interested to how you came to that regional based information. My initial reaction is that it's pretty baseless, and generally human communication is aided by visual cues. I'm also from NZ. I'd say more important is what the subject matter is. When I'm talking to a colleague about code we never have cameras on because the focus of our conversation is technical. When I'm presenting to a group about code I do have my camera on because I'm presenting, but I'd argue it could be off and not hamper the information conveyed. When I'm in a team meeting that's not technical, most cameras are always on because the focus is on the person. I agree with your other points.

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GumboSamson@reddit

I work for a global enterprise (with an office in Auckland, many offices in the States, and an office in Germany). We were struggling with inter-office communication. Even though we all speak English, sometimes _the way_ we were communicating with each other was getting in the way. For instance, did you know that “tabling” something in the US means the opposing of what “tabling” it means in NZ? (In the US, “tabling” means “we’re not going to talk about it” and in NZ it means “we’re _are_ going to talk about it.”). In NZ we like to be a bit understated—in the US people expect you to be a bit more dramatic when you have a problem. Etc. So we called in a communication coach who travelled to each of our offices, interviewed us as groups, gave us some observations, and one of the things they observed was that our NZ office had high-context communication (relative to our US offices). This very well could have been an office-specific thing and might not apply to every office—after all, Auckland is a city of immigrants. But my point earlier wasn’t to give a specific recipe for communication—it was an argument that _organisations need to be aware of cultural differences and accommodate them_, otherwise you end up with unnecessary friction.

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wearecyborg@reddit

Fair enough, that is at least definitely not baseless. Quite interesting. I'd agree about us being understated, probably comes from our British heritage.

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unconceivables@reddit

If you can't bother being presentable during work hours I'd be worried about what else you can't be bothered doing during work hours. You're being paid for your time, so stop being so entitled.

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lardsack@reddit

let me turn my camera on while i'm taking a shit so you can get a close up of my toilet then, you fucking narc

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kouro_sensei_007@reddit (OP)

I am presentable when i turn up to work on the days i am in office. When i am working from home, its flexible. I dont have to be presentable. If the day starts at 9:30, i can wake up at 9:15, brush, and log in. I can attend a meeting lying down, or sitting on the couch. People walk by, sit around, etc which i prefer not be on camera. Thats the whole point of flexible working. Doesnt mean i m not focussed.

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theremix18@reddit

This is how you force a RTO full time. Trear wfh as in you are working from office. No manager would like knowing you are attending your meeting from a couch with other people walking or sitting by.

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mc-funk@reddit

Why the hell should they care where your butt is if you are focused and doing your work?

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_orpheustaken@reddit

I like and respect this opinion, but highly disagree with it. See open-source projects for example: You don't have to show yourself to deliver high-quality work.

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codemuncher@reddit

I am paid for my expertise.

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DeviantDork@reddit

Love the privilege. Guessing being presentable for you takes about 30 seconds?

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uncampodenabos@reddit

What in the privilege are you saying? What does privilege have to do with being presentable?

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Engine_Light_On@reddit

Definitely take less than commuting to office, because if you can’t keep you camera on what else can’t you do at home?

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DeviantDork@reddit

That’s a strong statement. What correlation have you observed between cameras and ability to work?

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rosecurry@reddit

R^2=0.6

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grauenwolf@reddit

We're not strippers. You're not paying us to satisfy your voyeuristic needs.

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brrnr@reddit

Atrocious take. Appearance has absolutely no correlation to ability. It is completely irrelevant. and As long as someone is prompt, timely, and reliable, whatever they are wearing at home or how they are taking care of themselves is absolutely not your business. It's childish, bizarre, and frankly weird as hell to believe otherwise.

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forgottenHedgehog@reddit

If all you do is submit pull requests, maybe. But that doesn't fly by the time you get beyond maaaybe mid-level. Not unless the culture is fully async (which it pretty much never is).

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brrnr@reddit

You're very weird and frankly if you are judging people's ability by pseudoscience like body language I question your ability to perform the job well at all. Verbal and written communication skills are more than enough to meet the communications needs of this job at most levels. Keep that weirdo shit to yourself.

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WiseHalmon@reddit

don't think verbal communication is required at all. I'm not even sure written communication is required either. I just write a specification and get code out. I don't really care about if it's a real person who cares on the other side. Everyone is a replaceable cog. Why bother having any visual, verbal, or written impression of another human that I am only connected with for transactional work? /s

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brrnr@reddit

> Why bother having any visual, verbal, or written impression of another human that I am only connected with for transactional work? /s I mean, yeah? What are you even saying? Do you think your coworkers are your friends? Is your software engineering job where you're trying to get your social needs met? Do you know what a hobby is?

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WiseHalmon@reddit

The argument being made here by many people is about cameras, but it can be taken to further extremes. What if a coworker never joins meetings? What if they never answer emails? Messages? None of it matters if you just changed your perspective and process a little bit. /s Did that help either? The point im trying to make is that it's not about the cameras. Its fundamentally people's belief systems in bidirectional communication rather than transactional work.

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brrnr@reddit

> It's fundamentally people's belief systems in bidirectional communication rather than transactional work. Is it, though? It seems to me the arguments are whether or not sufficient bidirectional communication for the demands of the job can be achieved without turning a camera on. Which like, it obviously can, and obviously has been for years.

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WranglerNo7097@reddit

\> by pseudoscience like body language Hey, I also work with several autistic people who are great. You got this!

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forgottenHedgehog@reddit

> There is no benefit to seeing people's eyes twitch with annoyance or bodies shifting with discomfort during meetings. There very much is when you are trying to make some sort of argument or convince somebody. You won't notice someone wincing or losing focus if you can't see them. Not everybody will speak out when they disagree, they will buffer that for later (ESPECIALLY in a remote meeting, people tend to jump in less), when you are three sentences away. Having camera off in those situation is just not an efficient way of spending time in meetings, and this kin of meeting will make up most of your meeting workload the higher you get.

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brrnr@reddit

Okay so you see someone wince and shift as they become visibility uninterested in what you're talking about so you, what, wrap up the meeting unresolved? Increase your appeals to emotion to try and get people interested? Scold everyone for not caring and demand they pay more attention? Flail your arms around more? How does that help? How specifically was the nonverbal information you gleaned beneficial? Was that benefit really worth forcing several uninterested people to remain on camera? This is all just hand-wavy nonsense to justify what is ultimately a bizarre and unnecessary privacy invasion

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forgottenHedgehog@reddit

It helps because I know when specifically that happened and what I was talking about, I can circle back to that and go into more or less details. I can also notice when somebody was about to speak and give them ability to speak at that moment so that they don't feel bad about interrupting. It's just basic communication skills from primary freaking school. Are you sure you aren't neurodivergent in some way? Not being able to think how signals like that can help is seriously disturbing.

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brrnr@reddit

> It helps because I know when specifically that happened and what I was talking about, I can circle back to that and go into more or less details. Yeah, go into more details with someone who is visibly uninterested, that will help > I can also notice when somebody was about to speak and give them ability to speak at that moment so that they don't feel bad about interrupting. This is the only valid point you've presented, but frankly it's a skill issue. You can very much account for this with verbal cues. > Are you sure you aren't neurodivergent in some way? Not being able to think how signals like that can help is seriously disturbing,a nd I've only seen this with colleagues on autism spectrum (when they needed couching about presentations). Are you serious lmao? Do you feel better after typing all that out? Brother it's *you* struggling to understand how you can competently interact with people without seeing their face. That's not my problem. I think you might be projecting.

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pacman2081@reddit

If my skip manager wants a face-to-face meeting, I have to turn on the camera. In fact, I turn it on even if he doesn't. Because I want him to see my reactions.

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cucescecemocetece@reddit

Its judging people by the ability to follow company policy to - and imagine the horror - be visible. That's all there is to it. Its business hours, you're being paid. If you have issues with being visible while "being in your own space", then dont be in your own space. I'm in a company where default is camera off, but at times, when we are actually \_discussing\_ things, rather than reporting, everyone turns the camera on. Without anyone asking them to, its just easier and frankly - yes, respectful, to show yourself while actively engaging in a debate.

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brrnr@reddit

Sounds like you may just lack object permanence, which is not my problem. You would benefit from a fully in-office position; you should put your energy towards chasing that instead of shoving your weird ideology down everyone's throats. Good luck!

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thereisnosub@reddit

I mostly agree with you, but frankly I think it's rude to call someone with a different opinion and/or experience "weird". You can disagree without getting personal.

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brrnr@reddit

Yeah I mean you're right, I just edited that out. This comment section is absolutely ridiculous, I don't know what this guy's deal is but it was uncalled for.

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Alkyen@reddit

exactly. WFH has been a blessing and all but you are still expected to be professional during work hours.

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low_depo@reddit

For management you are “resource” and their role is to maximise profit, so over time they will test how much bullshit they can push on you until you push back. 10-15 years ago we had separate position for frontend, backend and devops and now companies are hiring full stack devops because programmers let people walk all over them.

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mazapan_stack@reddit

This really isn't an unreasonable ask. If you're working from home and your company has a cameras-on policy, it's because they believe face time helps their culture, communication, and accountability.. especially in a hybrid setup. You're already getting the huge benefit of working from home most days; turning on a webcam for meetings is a pretty small tradeoff, not something to fight over. If that expectation truly doesn't work for you, it may just be a culture mismatch, but it's not an abnormal or unfair one. Think of it this way, you're getting paid to work from home, either have the decency to make yourself presentable at home - or go to the office.

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tobega@reddit

We have cameras on all the time. It's the next closest thing to actually being there

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GandalfWaits@reddit

It greatly helps communication. Lookup the 7-38-55 rule.

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Powerful-Ad9392@reddit

My company doesn't have any policy but we'll normally put them on when meeting new people, especially clients.

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aeroverra@reddit

Not ours. Some teams may do it but I sure as hell ain't turning mine on. Im a digital nomad so half the time I'm in a random wework or in some random spot on a cruise ship and that could potentially cause drama. When I'm home I'm not presentable and have no intention of changing that fact. My work speaks for itself and in the few cases they try to get people to turn on their cameras I'll happily be the one with it off.

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RegrettableBiscuit@reddit

Depends on the call. If it's some kind of presentation, people who are only listening often have the camera off. But if it's a regular meeting where you are likely to contribute, camera is on. I don't see the issue, you can replace your background and not show anyone where you work. It's also very helpful for people who are hard of hearing, not seeing your mouth makes it harder to understand what you are saying. And it's helpful to gauge emotions and responses. I think turning your camera on is generally a good idea and not worth fighting.

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Ok_Slide4905@reddit

If you work remote, cameras should be on by default.

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Darkmayday@reddit

I've worked at 4 companies, camera off os default

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Izacus@reddit

Wow, whole 4 companies. That... gives your opinion weight why exactly?

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Darkmayday@reddit

Everyone is sharing their anecdotes, sorry my anecdote upset you.

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WranglerNo7097@reddit

I work at 4 companies, simultaneously. camera off is default when meetings overlap

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daboblin@reddit

Not a joke. We had to fire someone that was working two full-time jobs. Unsurprisingly, he was the guy who had his camera off a lot of the time.

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gefahr@reddit

It's a whole thing. People try to sweep it under the rug, even jokes about it, because they think it being discussed will make them get caught or something. See r/overemployed. Entire community based around it.

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gefahr@reddit

I'll be honest, fair or not, this crosses our mind when people are always camera-off.

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grauenwolf@reddit

I've worked remote for decades. For most of that time work computers didn't even have cameras. The work still got done. So tell me what changed? Why do you think people are no longer capable of doing their job unless you're constantly staring at them?

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RandyHoward@reddit

Agree. I've been fully remote for 8 years across 3 different companies, camera on is default. My current company is the only one I sometimes don't turn it on for, because the company is in another country and occasionally there's a meeting at 3am in my timezone. I don't turn it on for 3am meetings, but it's on for all other meetings.

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kouro_sensei_007@reddit (OP)

Not remote. I work from office 2 days a week.

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dead_donny@reddit

right, so mainly remote

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Low_Entertainer2372@reddit

dont fight it, dont become the problematic one. if you dont like it and speaking is not an option, sadly you'll have to either comply or find another place

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PaulMorel@reddit

It's expected for most meetings. It's okay to leave your cameras off occasionally. I sometimes say something like "hi everyone. I'm leaving my camera off because I'm eating."

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TehTriangle@reddit

If you don't have your camera on, you're being judged heavily by your manager.

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IBJON@reddit

Maybe if your managers suck. Mine couldn't care less.

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Mumen-Rider-VA@reddit

Yep. There are multiple comments in this thread from people thinking having cameras on will "save them" during layoff time. It absolutely will not. You can be extremely present through teams messages, emails, and actual software contribution.

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gastro_psychic@reddit

Director: “I think we should layoff Dan.” Manager: “Dan always has his camera on. Let’s lay off John instead.” 🤣

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JimDabell@reddit

It plays out more like: > John doesn’t seem as engaged as Dan. And in my experience, it’s usually true. In a company culture where cameras off is allowed, I find that it’s the people with the cameras off who are usually doing something else at the same time, while the people with the cameras on are actively listening.

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gastro_psychic@reddit

Hosting meetings people don’t care about and find pointless? Skill issue.

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takingphotosmakingdo@reddit

Yup, I got a surprise performance review after refusing to have mine on while having digestive issues where I was sprinting for the toilet and didn't want my room to be on camera if I had to run away so I could slame the mute mic hotkey and bolt. He made a huge deal about it, and since then I've basically been kept out of the loop and been dealing with HR purgatory.

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gastro_psychic@reddit

That sucks dude.

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takingphotosmakingdo@reddit

Yeah there's more to the story, I'm still evaluating where to go from here. Funny people downvoted someone suffering, weird take.

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gastro_psychic@reddit

The pro camera people in this thread are really aggressive. They are probably scrum masters. 🤣

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takingphotosmakingdo@reddit

Aww come on now, I knew some SMs that were decent. It's the PMs and Deputy PMs you gotta watch out for. One called me a sysasmin after deploying an entire $2-4M stack solo. I'm not a dev, not really, but tone deaf leadership is strangling the tech industry as a whole and needs to be addressed.

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grauenwolf@reddit

Only if your manager is incompetent. If your manager knows how to do their job then they're judging you based on the quality of your work.

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AbbreviationsFar4wh@reddit

Well lucky for us our whole team is camera off 95% of the time

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Darkmayday@reddit

Mine has his off and doesn't care

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drnullpointer@reddit

I like to keep my camera on. But I also understand that some people may not be comfortable to invite everybody to look into their homes. Not everybody has a luxury of a dedicated office room and frequently the work with other family members present in the same space. Therefore I decided not to insist on people staying on the camera all the time. I invite them to be on the camera, I think it is much nicer, but I don't react against people who choose not to.

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ReluctantlyTenacious@reddit

Lol we never have cameras on

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Mumen-Rider-VA@reddit

My whole company keeps them off and I love my team and culture. We already screen share a lot, so forcing cameras feels very "fake" . Surprised to see we have so many delores umbridges in the comments. Quite frankly, if we're going to force cameras to be on all the time, we might as well go back to 100% WFH ( which many in this sub would love no doubt )

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muuchthrows@reddit

Just curious, how would you react if you had a team member who always has the camera off and says maybe two sentences per meeting? Because that’s my reality in some meetings, even in smaller groups.

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grauenwolf@reddit

I would ask why we're wasting that team members time by making them go to meetings that are irrelevant to them. At most companies the number one cause of lost productivity is excessive meetings. So if those two sentences aren't really valuable to the rest of the team let the person just go back to their doing their job.

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muuchthrows@reddit

I mean this can even be in very basic team meetings, such as backlog refinements and team retrospectives.

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grauenwolf@reddit

Those are not "basic team meetings". Those are SCRUM rituals. And I'm not surprised at all that people don't care about them. Instead of bringing developers to "backlog refinement" meetings, how about let them work on the current tasks and while you meet with the stakeholders separately to prioritize objectives? While the occasional retrospective can be very valuable, having them as a regular reoccurring meeting suggests to me that either (a) no one is implementing the recommended changes, (b) the changes are happening so frequently that its impossible to know if any of them could have worked, or (c) it purely a formality and nothing of importance is being said.

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muuchthrows@reddit

Fair point. These are senior engineers. I expect them to contribute more than just picking pre-chewed tasks from a backlog and being disengaged in meetings they’ve accepted. Also there are no hard requirements on process within the team, the team is supposed to be self-organized. If a meeting feels useless we can skip it, but not even that is voiced.

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grauenwolf@reddit

> I expect them to contribute more than just picking pre-chewed tasks from a backlog and being disengaged in meetings they’ve accepted. That's what the backlog is for. If the vast majority of their attention and efforts are on the tickets, then there is something wrong.

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muuchthrows@reddit

As a senior engineer there are different ways of contributing. Being active in meetings communicating ideas and solutions (with camera on) is one of them. Another way is being highly visible in other ways, active in chats, closing tickets. But if I don’t see any of that I get worried and suspicious.

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grauenwolf@reddit

> Being active in meetings communicating ideas and solutions (with camera on) is one of them. Again, what's the obsession with cameras. Are their ideas worthless if you can't check their nose hairs?

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muuchthrows@reddit

Yes.

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Mumen-Rider-VA@reddit

My coworkers are always doing stuff. Making tests. Making scripts for the group repo. Closing out tickets on the dashboard. Sending out emails. For the people that are truly productive, you can see that evidence everywhere. Being visible on a team isn't something you can "cram" into a meeting, its something you do a little bit everyday. If you're killing it everywhere else, then you can hang back in the meeting. If you're not killing it everywhere, do that first

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muuchthrows@reddit

I agree, but there’s also the person who is doing maybe half of what you’re describing but is also visibly on camera being engaged in the problems we discuss in the meeting. You’re also discounting other meetings with people who interact with you or your team mates rarely. In those situations they only see a random dev with the camera off, and have limited visibility in what else you contribute to personally.

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aseradyn@reddit

Do people in your team verbalize a lot? I've found that teams with very quiet people are the hardest for me when cameras are off. If people speak up regularly, it doesn't feel like talking into the void. But when there's a question and it's just a row of silent avatars staring at you, it's hard to know if anyone even cares

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Mumen-Rider-VA@reddit

My team talks a lot, but we're all friends. A work meeting feels like a halo group chat. I guess for better or worse its just the culture I came up in. We definitely don't mind turing it on if we have a new person or something. But one more point that my team knows, is that I'm never home. I try to get outside for at least 2-3 hours a day. So I'm joining meetings from the river, from the beach, from my hair appoint, from my brunch, ect. Or a few team members might meet up at a park. We all get our work done, and we have good metrics. I just hate the feeling of being locked to one place. If we ever had to go back in I would try to retire early or find something different.

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novasilverpill@reddit

Daily standups, generally no. A smaller team meeting, at a cadence of once a week, yes. At an all-hands or really any meeting with more than 15, hell no.

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Iannelli@reddit

Lame ass comments in this post so far. Don't know why everybody in here appears to be such a suck up to "corporate culture." No, cameras should not be on all the time with no exceptions. That is childish and immature. Cameras should be used on a "common sense" basis. Daily stand-up with the same fuckers I talk to every single day? No cameras. User story refinement with the same fuckers I talk to every day? No cameras. Process mapping or architectural diagram session? No cameras. Talking to a business stakeholder? Put the camera on if they do. Having a one-on-one with your manager? Put the camera on if they do. Common fucking sense folks.

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brrnr@reddit

Yeah what the fuck is this comment section? I can't help but think this thread is being brigaded, I have never in my life seen people so forcefully *demand* that everyone use cameras in our stupid little laptop jobs. What is this weirdo shit?

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Mumen-Rider-VA@reddit

SWE are generally rule followers. You can tell that we wont ever unionize from these comments :)

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brrnr@reddit

Crab mentality ass industry

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Izacus@reddit

You're not being cool when you're a dick to your coworkers. That wasn't even cool when you were 15.

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brrnr@reddit

Brother we're all posting on Reddit in an experienced dev forum. No one here is cool or trying to be cool. You have people in this thread *vehemently* arguing against one of the most benign benefits of WFH. Clearly the "cool" thing to do as an SWE is suck on the boot with a smile and thank your boss for the privilege.

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mc-funk@reddit

They worked very hard to have enough ping pong tables and beer taps and perks and high enough salary to keep us from unionizing when we had the power to do it.

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anubus72@reddit

is it so crazy to you that maybe the general consensus isn’t what you thought it was? personally a few years ago I preferred camera off until i started having to lead more meetings. Now I realize how awkward it is to talk to a bunch of boxes on the screen for several hours a day.

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brrnr@reddit

Yeah in this case it actually is crazy. I don't doubt that some people prefer it but this thread has 5-6x the comments as other top threads in this sub. There's no reason for this specific thread to be so active, it's clearly being astroturfed or brigaded.

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JimDabell@reddit

> most with a weird hostile tone It seems to me the anti-camera comments are a *lot* more hostile: > childish and immature > these people have been brainwashed > pro-camera corporate stooges > they’re not devs > Real business bootlicker type vibes. > they’re salty people > they are trying to make things worse for everyone > Some real boomers and corporate suck offs in here > The ones that want cameras are bucking to become another mediocre-at-best manager.

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brrnr@reddit

I could point to the several comments insisting that people who don't want their camera on are neurodivergent/socially inept/autistic but that's obviously not the substantive part of my comment nor the part worth discussing

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anubus72@reddit

big webcam brigading it or what?

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brrnr@reddit

Yeah I'm sure there's no possible motive for employers to want more access and visibility to employees. I just can't think of any reasons why they might advocate for anything that enables more control and less personal freedom. It's such unprecedented behavior from those with our best interests at heart.

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grauenwolf@reddit

Loneliness. If you read the comments carefully you'll see that a pattern. These people have no social life outside their job. If they don't see you on camera then they don't see anyone all day and that's not healthy. Now don't take this as me supporting the idea. I am not willing to accept the increased amount of stress that's caused by being on camera all the time in exchange for their loneliness. I'm just trying to explain why this comes about.

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Hopeful_Clue9980@reddit

Actually yes, a lot of times I am home all day and don't see other people and I do like seeing coworkers on camera. Perhaps I need to get out more, but it's cold.

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marx-was-right-@reddit

My wifes work is weird, they do cameras on all the time like OP. Mines the opposite

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HugeRichard11@reddit

It’s really weird. There’s a bunch of short sentences condescending type comments getting upvoted which gives me the feeling they’re not devs or care about the actual job. Real business bootlicker type vibes. I’m thinking they’re salty people that have to work in person and hate people that work remote, so they are trying to make things worse for everyone. Was pretty common with the hybrid/RTO vs wfh debate people.

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ToadWithHugeTitties@reddit

They're going wild with the downvotes too on seemingly benign comments. I'm really not sure why people are getting so heated over this topic...

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brrnr@reddit

I've never seen something like this in this sub, the takes are *so* uniform and heated. So many comments so fast, too. "Nonverbal communication is important to this job" what the actual fuck is anyone here talking about?

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Mumen-Rider-VA@reddit

Over 220 comments in less than an hour on this half dead sub, and 90% of them strongly feel the same way? I don't think it's bots, I just think there's a strong correlation between type A personalities and people that like cameras in / in office work. The people that respond the quickest are the extroverts, the people who would raise their hand in class first

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brrnr@reddit

Yeah I don't think it's bots either, but with metrics like that on this sub it's certainly weird as hell. There's an uncharacteristic aggression to it all too; I feel like usually this sub is relatively benign, but this time I've had like 5 people tell me I'm definitely autistic for suggesting this job can be completed competently without cameras lmao.

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Iannelli@reddit

OP of this comment chain here - I made my initial comment right when this post was made and didn't read beyond the few initial comments. I just went and read through all of the comments.. I am just.. fucking baffled dude. I absolutely hate this timeline. Feels like a psyop. It's like these people have been brainwashed into obeying corporate bullshit. I swear if this was posted 4 years ago it would not have been like this. Huge bummer, honestly. It feels like we're going to be in for more and more shitty company experiences in the future now, if so many people think this way.

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brrnr@reddit

Baffling how fast we went from "fuck no I won't do RTO" to "The Company owns you and your time and that's Good actually and you're disgusting and disrespectful if you so much as think otherwise"

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ToadWithHugeTitties@reddit

Yeah, it's bizarre. I didn't even think this subreddit was this active, and this post doesn't have that many upvotes. Nonverbal communication is definitely important, they're not wrong about that, but I actually don't think webcams do a good job of capturing or expressing it. I get more focused on how I look in the little box and don't react in the same way I would in real life or give my full attention to whoever is speaking, and there's research showing this is a common thing. Eye contact isn't really possible either, since you have to look at the screen, and the camera's in a different position. And I say all this as someone who is definitely more extraverted than the average dev, and is looking for at least a hybrid role for my next job, so it's not just me being asocial.

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jasnah_@reddit

I was just about to comment the same, some of these pro-camera corporate stooges are wild.

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mercival@reddit

Beyond "fuck the man", you didn't really give a reason. Personally, I don't want to work with faceless, nameless, boring people. It's nice to see humans, it's normal.

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DeviantDork@reddit

Since you don’t seem to understand subtext, the reason is that cameras don’t offer much value most of the time. It’s worth it if there’s value. Why add an extra barrier/requirment if it’s not contributing anything? And most of us see humans. If camera -on work is literally your only human interaction then you have much bigger problems to address

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Izacus@reddit

>Since you don’t seem to understand subtext, the reason is that cameras don’t offer much value most of the time. That's just something you made up right now to try to provide copium for your preference at the cost of others. No study confirms that.

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Vegetable_Wishbone92@reddit

> Personally, I don't want to work with faceless, nameless, boring people. Do you have the memory of a goldfish? I know my coworkers names and appearances without seeing their faces every single meeting.

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grauenwolf@reddit

Your workplace is not a social club. We're not here to entertain you, we're here to get a job done. Whether or not someone's boring should not be a factor.

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MgFi@reddit

Honestly, for as much as some people find the visuals helpful, others are just annoyed by them. When I'm talking to my coworkers there really isn't any need to see their face. I'm much more interested in what they're saying and what they're sharing on the screen. That's what the work is. Everything else is a distraction.

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Crafty_Independence@reddit

Here's some reasons: In most of the meetings they have cameras off, the team is paying attention to a screenshare instead. So no benefit to cameras on. On the flip side, recent studies have shown that camera on increases stress and fatigue, as well as elevating eye contact *above* in-person levels. I want my team to be comfortable and productive, so I don't require them to have cameras on in situations without clear upside

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Iannelli@reddit

You're a great lead. Our lead is a nice guy but I am sick of this company's camera-on-24/7 policy. Exhausting and distracting.

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Iannelli@reddit

That's fine.. but it should be optional, not forced. Learn the golden rule, or better yet, the platinum rule. Not everybody wants what you want.

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mercival@reddit

So still no reasons beyond "You don't want to". Many devs don't want to do many things, if "Not everybody wants what you want" means anything goes for everything, interesting...

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Iannelli@reddit

I am seriously worried that you are unable to capture what the reason is from my two comments. It could not be more clear. Read between the lines.

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ToadWithHugeTitties@reddit

Yeah, camera/zoom fatigue is a real thing. Anecdotally, it feels far more mentally draining than real life interaction.

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forgottenHedgehog@reddit

It's the average level of people skills in this subreddit.

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Whitchorence@reddit

come on man they're paying yuo six figures, teh camera is not a serious hardship

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gemengelage@reddit

There's really not a lot of common sense in your camera strategy here. It's honestly the most sucking up to corporate culture response in this whole post. So you keep your camera off when talking to your coworkers and actually doing your job, but when someone who outranks you enters the (virtual) room, you put on a nice dress shirt, turn on the camera and act like a good employee? >Daily stand-up with the same fuckers I talk to every single day? Funnily enough, at my last job the daily stand-up was one of the few meetings we consistently had all cameras on, just because it's nice to see the whole team, but it also doesn't mean that you are being watched for over an hour.

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brrnr@reddit

Are you seriously trying to DARVO someone's opinion on cameras during work hours?? That's a new low lmao

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Iannelli@reddit

The "common sense" part is going to vary from team to team. Sure, some teams are different, and if you enjoyed being on camera with your team daily, that's great and you shouldn't change it. The. Entire. Point. Is that it should not be **forced.**

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Darkmayday@reddit

You're correct. Some real boomers and corporate suck offs in here

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Which-World-6533@reddit

>Is this the norm in companies now? I get that you can put on a filter but i am not happy showing my face when i m sick or havent showered or just when i am at home in general. You should be showering every day. You are an adult, right...?

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eliminate1337@reddit

Plenty of people in cold climates and/or with the East Asian gene for minimal body odor don’t shower every day and have no need to.

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BorderKeeper@reddit

Don’t get into this argument with people online. I am the same as you and many others are, but a lot of people: A) never had this discussion with anyone, and B) have daily showers hammered to them to death by their parents and so flip out when they hear this.

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Which-World-6533@reddit

Sorry but that is BS. If you don't shower at least once a day you will smell. And yes, we can smell it.

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Sheldor5@reddit

lol who tf is downvoting you, you are absolutely right

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Which-World-6533@reddit

>lol who tf is downvoting you, you are absolutely right Redditors don't understand that people can see when someone has not washed. Even if it's just on a screen I don't want to interact with someone who doesn't understand the basics of hygiene. I can imagine how they smell.

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Sheldor5@reddit

wow we both are downvoted for saying shower at least once a day ... what gross pigs are around us?

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gastro_psychic@reddit

You can smell it through Zoom? lol

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eliminate1337@reddit

Bit of a circular argument isn't it? If someone doesn't shower and has no body odor you'd have no way of knowing. The gene is real: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABCC11 They don't even sell deodorant in South Korea because nobody needs it.

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gemengelage@reddit

I don't think you need to shower every day, but if you look so bad that you don't want to turn on your webcam, you should've definitely taken a shower.

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DeviantDork@reddit

I have curly hair. Textured hair should stay in a bonnet at home, but that looks unprofessional to most people. I’m plenty clean, but it must be nice being an average white dude who has short hair and can throw on a sweatshirt to look ready.

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gemengelage@reddit

>it must be nice being an average white dude who has short hair I... Ehm... How did you know?

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DeviantDork@reddit

Not trying to throw shade, just trying to point out that what’s simple for you may not be simple for everyone.

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gemengelage@reddit

I'm working on my ableism, but it's really hard sometimes. We can't know what we don't know, you know?

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ToadWithHugeTitties@reddit

Eh, for me the issue is usually just bedhead, even if I've showered the night before. My hair is just like that. I'll just throw on a hat if I need to be on camera and haven't fixed my hair yet, though.

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theremix18@reddit

I’m in Chicago and I shower everyday in winter

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mercival@reddit

Yeah, but they go out in public, they're not staying home unseen because they're unpresentable.

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hachface@reddit

wtf. people in cold climates shower every day.

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grauenwolf@reddit

Have you considered that people do things? First thing I do every morning is go work out in my garden for an hour or two. When I take that daily 9:00 a.m. call I am caked in mud. Literally the only part of me that's clean are my hands and forearms. Other people may have just woken up because it's an early meeting. Or they may have just gotten back from the gym. And if you aren't doing physical exercise, you probably don't actually need to shower every day. That's a relatively modern luxury.

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fknbtch@reddit

that's rude. why are you assuming if a person's is camera off that their hygiene is lacking? i know people that do it to avoid xenophobia and racism.

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AbbreviationsFar4wh@reddit

Bro literally said he didn’t shower in the quote being replied to

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ings0c@reddit

I can’t be the only person that wears a dressing gown around the house. I like to be cosy while I’m working 🤷‍♂️ Like fuck am I turning my camera on for the morning standup. Small meeting with a handful of people or an unfamiliar face? Sure, I’ll take the gown off.

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kouro_sensei_007@reddit (OP)

Yes.. but it don't have to be immediate when i m working from home since i have nowhere to be. :)

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Which-World-6533@reddit

We can still see your skanky hair. It's always obvious people who don't keep up cleanliness.

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Mumen-Rider-VA@reddit

And see, when the cameras are off, appearance issues like this aren't able to distract from working

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dobesv@reddit

If you work in an office it's expected you can show your face and be presentable. If you work from home you can do the same. I don't think people who are supposed to be working and getting paid can assume it's fine to just be in a messy and unprofessional state just because they are working at home.

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actionerror@reddit

The culture at my company is cameras off, but I have no problem turning it on for anyone at any time.

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PandaMagnus@reddit

Same. My only concern to OP's post is the lead "throws a tantrum/yells" if it doesn't happen. Makes me wonder if there are ulterior motives there.

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RonnieBasic@reddit

I agree w/ your suspicion . The boss may be a control freak and this is just 1 way of it materialising... scary.

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LeanPawRickJ@reddit

Yeah; way to bury the lede, OP. That’s the real area for a (lack of) culture check. The camera thing’s a mere bagatelle in comparison.

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deefstes@reddit

I am all for this. Frankly, I am sick and tired of people not being present in meetings. I have never one had to repeat a question to a person in a meeting whose camera is on. But countless times I've asked something to a faceless "participant" in a meeting only to discover that they haven't been participating at all and I have to repeat the question or give context on what we're discussing. Before WFH was a thing, you'd never show up to a meeting and hide your face. It's ridiculous that people have become so accustomed to it that they will even feel offended now when others insist that they turn their camera on. If you want to work from home, you have to prove that you are as good or better as you would have been at the office. Many people in our organisation are not and their absence from meetings sends a very strong message. But then they act like victims when the company decides they have to return to the office for n days a week.

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RonnieBasic@reddit

On our end, cameras are not mandatory - sometimes the PO politely asks us to switch them on n.b. if we are discussing a painful topic @ Retrospective, they announce someone is leaving the team etc. It's purely random and never enforced. That said I've noticed a thing : ladies keep their cameras off more often than gents. I kind of get it - stalkers, wankers & weird workmates around; it's early am and you are in your PJs, #noMakeup etc. ... My advice to you would be * Set up a 121 w/ your PO and politely explain why you are not comfortable w/ this. Unless the PO is a dick, they should respect your PoV and allow you to go camera off w/ no questions asked, ever. I mean... was this ever a topic in year 2019?! * If you're a lady, you pack an extra punch. I wouldn't mind inventing a mini-story of e.g. 'In my previous job, a workmate secretly took screenshots of me on Zoom meetings, then posted them on Instagram '. You see what I mean - I reckon this can get you very far, n.b. if your manager is a lady too Hope that spawns new ideas for you on how to deal w/ the situation.

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kbegiedza@reddit

Depends on team and company policy. In my previous team, nobody cared if camera was on or off, and almost nobody had it on besides sprint reviews etc. Currently, almost every time we have cameras on, but no one is forcing it.

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mmcnl@reddit

Cameras off is very antisocial. You're being paid to work but you're unable to have a decent appearance on camera? Super strange.

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khooke@reddit

Having spent many many hours on phone conference calls over the years confirms for me that there's no real relationship between being on camera and a team being productive and successful.

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Xzaphan@reddit

That’s not a company thing but a person requirement! It’s more « human » to turn it on but you do what you want. It depends on the circumstances where you’re at.

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puremourning@reddit

Camera on for presence, engagement, professionalism. If you have a problem with it, it’s a you problem.

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farmer_sausage@reddit

Depends on the company. They can have whatever policy they want and you follow it 🤷‍♀️ Camera off is nice, but camera on has some benefits. I find people are significantly more engaged with cameras on. Less likely to be on their phone or multi tasking and ignoring the meeting at hand.

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torsknod@reddit

In team meetings we usually have them on, else often not. Some even have their cameras blocked or even removed due to security reasons. I usually have it on with virtual green screen and a background picture. If one is walking around in the room (seldom), I have it off. For me working in the home office is mainly due to the company being much too far away for the daily commute.

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SingleOrigin@reddit

Meetings are for collaboration, establishing a shared understanding, and getting to know and trust your team. That is made much harder when cameras are off. Save for illness, cameras should always be on (and it’s unfortunate if your company doesn’t encourage you to rest when you’re ill).

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mc-funk@reddit

in the US many states don’t even require employers to offer sick time at all. It is rare that a workplace is both employee-friendly enough and well enough staffed and run for people to feel very comfortable not trying to work sick

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kobumaister@reddit

We don't have a policy but the common thing is to keep them on. Talking to a bunch of letters sucks, and it sucks even more when you ask something and nobody answers and you just see M J A D ...

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beachguy82@reddit

We always keep our monitors on. I like seeing faces when I talk to someone. I get very bored on a call with no video.

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RangePsychological41@reddit

>I am not very comfortable turning my camera on if i m working from home. As long as you are aware of the fact that there are people like me who won't work in a team where people don't show their face. I work with my team mates every day. We get to know each other. We go through a lot together. In order to forge a strong team culture with happy people, having standards is important.

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JakoMyto@reddit

I kind of a disagree with both sides here. When remote it is a good idea to see people (cameras on) especially in smaller rounds like 2-3 people talking. In bigger rounds where a few people contribute and some people only listen its still nice to have cameras but its not such a big deal not to. I usually try to have my camera on at least while speaking/presenting. On the other I kind of disagree with the reasons you mentioned. Honestly I would never care why you have your camera off, but just mentioning"i didn't shower" doesn't sound right. WFH is not a reason to not be professionally looking while working. And being ill.. well maybe its ok just to use some sick leave, but I am also guilty of just working while sick.

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gomihako_@reddit

Fuck that shit lol

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bstaruk@reddit

If by "these days" you mean for the past 15+ years, then yes, that is the norm for remote work.

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Uneirose@reddit

I personally completely neutral about this policy. I mean both have pros and cons. I think company have every right to ask you mandatorily open cams. As a presenter, there is a lot of time where people are quiet with no cams on As a viewer, this part is irrelevant to me, but the forcing camera makes me have to act interested. Like both have pros and cons, company culture define it.

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Hopeful_Clue9980@reddit

At my job, upper management keeps telling people that cameras on should be the norm and people just ignore it. I often switch my camera on because my dog is cute, but it's usually only me. I am indeed the kind of person who lounges in my bathrobe all day and the camera is the only reason I put regular clothes on.

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Hopeful_Clue9980@reddit

Also, a lot of our team members are women from India (living and working in the US) who have small children at home. They've straight up said they don't like being on camera because their work setting is a little chaotic and it's embarrassing. I'm okay with that. It would be nice to see people but I get it.

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workflowsidechat@reddit

Most places aren’t that rigid. Teams usually want cameras on for certain meetings, but there’s flexibility when people aren’t feeling great or are WFH. Forcing it every time is more about her style than any real norm. A simple 'I’m keeping it off today' should be enough.

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goldsauce_@reddit

I make sure to set the precedent early that I won’t be keeping my camera on unless it’s a 1-on-1 or I’m presenting

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Fitvetcoach@reddit

**No, this is not normal, and the "throwing tantrums or yelling" part is a major red flag.** I've worked at 6 companies over the past 12 years, ranging from startups to Fortune 500s. Camera culture varies, but I've never seen a mandatory policy enforced this aggressively, especially with yelling involved. **What I've seen as "normal":** * Cameras on for 1-on-1s and small team meetings (2-5 people) * Cameras optional for large standups, all-hands, or working sessions * Complete flexibility when someone's sick, having a rough day, or dealing with home situations * Trust that adults can manage their own professionalism **The real issue here isn't the camera policy—it's the enforcement style.** A manager who yells and throws tantrums when people push back is creating a toxic environment. That behavior would get flagged in any healthy org. **Practical advice:** * Document instances of the yelling/tantrums (dates, witnesses) * If your company has HR or skip-level management, this is worth escalating—not just the camera policy, but the hostile enforcement * In the meantime, you can push back professionally: "I'm not comfortable having my camera on while working from home, and I'd appreciate respecting that boundary." But honestly? If HR doesn't address the yelling/tantrum behavior, that tells you everything about the company culture. Might be time to polish the resume. Are others on your team bothered by this too? Sometimes collective pushback works better than going solo.

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IAmVeryStupid@reddit

I haven't turned my camera on once at my current job, and nobody else has either. Just depends on the culture.

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zelmak@reddit

It really depends. If there’s more than 10 people and I’m not speaking I think off is fine. But in small settings it sucks just looking at icons. You lose a lot of communication when you can’t see face and body language

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jesuscamp_survivor@reddit

It's generally expected to have cameras on unless you're eating or you're conserving bandwidth. I comply because I have layoff PTSD and assume a faceless square is easier to let go when the next round hits.

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Main-Drag-4975@reddit

This anxiety is why I bought a steamer-quality microphone, camera, and light setup. Please love me 🥺

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gravteck@reddit

I've had some bad luck with those types of peripherals with my work Max and my hub. I'm going to try to give it another go on my own dime, instead of through procurement. What did you end up going with? It'd be nice to have a starting point that isn't whatever the hell journey Amazon would try and send me on while trying to gauge the landscape.

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Main-Drag-4975@reddit

Camera: I use an elgato camlink 4k to wire up my Sony a6400 camera as a usb c webcam despite its hdmi out. That goes on its own usb port if at all possible. My work Mac has three ports. Microphone: Electro-Voice RE 20 into focusrite Scarlett 2i2. This doesn’t require nearly as much bandwidth so it’s plugged into the docking station. Lights: Elgato key light and a generic led lamp from Amazon to fill the wall behind me. This is a rather costly set of gear, I didn’t buy it all at once.

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funarg@reddit

That's a nice setup. I'd also add that plopping a fast lens onto that camera produces a good-enough background defocus which eliminates the need for software blur filters for me. For ref. I have SEL24F14GM on my primary setup and SEL28F20 on my secondary. And a circular polarizer on top of the lens does wonders to remove glare and reflections from all that light on eyes and skin. I also run my feed through OBS and have a Stream Deck configured with quick buttons to mute the mic, fade-out my video when I need to step away and just a freeze-frame for minor distractions.

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gravteck@reddit

Thanks so much, super helpful. I have a good mic, but there was enough intermittent feedback that I gave up on it for daily use. Teams isn't an innocent bystander in this either. Cost is cost, I have the same YOE so I can afford to look past the "best value" section when it's something that could seriously improve my life--camera setup has driven me nuts ever since we got our M4's.

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someGuyyya@reddit

Could you share your setup? I might do the same instead of buying cheap mics?

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Main-Drag-4975@reddit

Sure, it’s in [another comment on this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/s/y3Rm1xnrkb).

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FeliusSeptimus@reddit

Do you have to have a big-ass microphone in front of your face, or are their unobtrusive options? And how expensive are we talking here?

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Main-Drag-4975@reddit

I don’t remember exactly but all told maybe $2000 in 2020 dollars. The microphone doesn’t have to be *right* in your face if you’re in a quiet room and have the ability to boost its levels before it gets to the computer.

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caffeinated_wizard@reddit

Everyone notices and comments on my setup and I reply the same thing every time: having a good background, nice microphone and good lighting is like wearing a suit for remote work.

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jesuscamp_survivor@reddit

You're describing my setup! It comes with a new anxiety: your setup looks so good that everyone expects you to say something substantial each meeting. I bought a Insta360 second camera to lower expectations some days lol

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unduly-noted@reddit

I’m sure this expectation is one you’ve made up for yourself, I doubt your coworkers expect more of you just because you look more clear!

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oiimn@reddit

People with a nice microphone are so nice to listen to. I actually think having a good microphone on a mostly remote company can have major benefits for you

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Peng-Win@reddit

Absolutely true. My company has a camera ON policy; but the CTO doesn't really care. There was 1 team that never had camera on (and never contributed), so they were the only team laid off. I'm conviced that they didn't build enough trust/sympathy/connection because we never saw their faces. SO it was easy to fire them and not miss them.

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Mumen-Rider-VA@reddit

I mean if it was against company policy, you can phrase that as "there was one tech team that constantly broke policy, they were the only team lead off"

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gastro_psychic@reddit

If a company is firing the wrong people it isn’t about the cameras.

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Darkmayday@reddit

I've worked at 4 companies, camera off os default

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akl78@reddit

Camera on 100%. We communicate with face and body as well as voice. Also the occasional pet photobomb is nice.

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Hopeful_Clue9980@reddit

I have a cute little dog. This is what video meetings are for.

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jake_ytcrap@reddit

I work fully remote from home and we always have our cameras on for all meetings. It would feel wierd if we didnt have it on. I find it that when you have the camera on there is an human connection between people specially if you are working with colleagues in different countries and time zones. We can gauge what the other person is going through. But previous companies I hated turning on the camera.

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Plane-Profession8006@reddit

Depends on the meeting size and the reason for the meeting. If it is a working small meeting or I am presenting, my camera is on. If it is a larger meeting meant to inform going to be off and probably eating lunch. Mostly remote so the camera is on when engaging.

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awildmanappears@reddit

It's not a rule at most places to have camera on, but I find it surprising that such a mandate is not more common. The most difficult part of almost any business is coordinating people. Humans communicate much more effectively and collaboratively when they can see each other's faces. A culture of cameras off is making the most difficult part of the business more difficult.

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_orpheustaken@reddit

That's alien to me. In my last two companies we spent years without seeing each others faces.

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AwesomeHorses@reddit

Cameras off is the norm at my company

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bluewater_1993@reddit

I have my camera on for most meetings, but if I’m having a working session with some of the other devs, we keep our cameras off. Personally, if we’re having a meeting where we are discussing something, it annoys me when others don’t have their camera on. Obviously, if you don’t have it on occasionally, no big deal, but it’s weird to me to be having what should be a face to face conversation with a blank screen. I never say anything about it, but it does annoy me.

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thelochteedge@reddit

My boss is pretty adamant about it any meeting he’s in. If I’m just meeting with a couple coworkers or we’re doing backlog refinement/sizing we usually all go camera off and same in the big company wide meetings. To be honest, I get it and don’t mind it. It’s easy to be faceless in a remote environment and if the one thing I gotta do is sit on camera I will do it every time if it means staying remote.

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puglife420blazeit@reddit

HR would say no

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sd2528@reddit

This is really surprising to me to see these responses. I regularly have meetings with clients across the financial sector and their IT firms. Our clients almost never have their cameras on. I don't know if it is industry specific, but in my area, camera's are almost never on.

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senari@reddit

Agreed, I'm in healthcare and 99% of the time cameras are off.

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thashepherd@reddit

True. I've noticed that the usefulness of the meeting is linearly correlated with the number of people with their camera on as well.

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AbbreviationsFar4wh@reddit

Ditto. Really common to see others in external meetings w camera off.

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apartment-seeker@reddit

Having worked in a legacy industry, a lot of people don't have cameras on because: a) they literally are so bad at tech they can't figure out webcam (maybe not the people you are talking to, though) b) the pressure on women to appear made-up in those industries is much higher, so they feel like unprepared, and would rather camera off c) they are working mostly in-person anyways; video conferences are abnormal things, and their etiquette is thus less refined d) as an outside vendor, you may just not be important enough tbh (but IDK the situation)

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captcanuk@reddit

I’d add that some legacy industries used to use voice bridges a lot and camera off google meet calls are the natural extension of that.

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thashepherd@reddit

Camera-off culture sucks. Low energy. When my guys join meetings outside of the company where everyone has their cameras off it's like walking into someone's funeral lol.

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Such_Nectarine3478@reddit

Small company, yes. First company I worked at was the same. At a big corp no one gave a shit.

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queue_tip_@reddit

It sounds like it's normal in your engineering organization. You should do with that whatever you think is right.

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MudMassive2861@reddit

Depends on company. I worked with Europe based team. So 98 percent remote and we came up with turning on camera for meetings. We tried and it was good. At least you know people are listening and you are not talking to wall. But exception are there.

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Sheldor5@reddit

in my company nobody cares, not even our clients care ...

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const_int3@reddit

I have a desktop with no camera so I haven't ever been in a meeting with a camera on me. Most engineers prefer no camera. The ones that want cameras are bucking to become another mediocre-at-best manager.

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AbbreviationsFar4wh@reddit

Lol yea. So many people external calls where both sides are camera off.

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Basting_Rootwalla@reddit

I'm surprised at how much desire there is to not have a camera on? It seems more odd to me to think about having a virtual meeting and not have some element of presence. I wouldn't be sitting in some screened in booth at a table at an in-person meeting. Seems pretty natural to me that if the medium is a video conference, you would have a camera on. There is a lot of information expressed through facial and body language + if you have your camera off and are muted, how do I know you're even there? I say this as person who hates meetings and is a classic introvert and has had my (then) 2 year old burst into my office and hop on my lap in the middle of a meeting.

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This-Layer-4447@reddit

I don't do it cause I'm usually looking pretty disheveled myself, so i def can't force others to do it

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IamZeebo@reddit

No one uses cameras at my job. Kind of weird if you do.

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DeterminedQuokka@reddit

As others said it’s a cultural thing. A lot of companies think being able to see a face matters. But it’s not new in my experience. The company I worked at 8 years ago also had that policy.

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DiamondMan07@reddit

Bro, just turn your camera on. You get to work from home ffs.🤦. I lost you at “throw a shirt on” like what are you even doing shirtless in the first place?

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thedancingpanda@reddit

Alright -- I'm a head of engineering, maybe I can give a slightly different perspective. I don't make any particular decrees over whether you need to have your camera on or not. However, my preference is for people to have cameras on if possible in group meetings. It is helpful for whoever is speaking to understand reactions. It's not just "I want to see you there", I promise. It's "this is helpful for people to understand that what they are saying is being listened to", which is EXTREMELY important. I do understand when people don't want to turn on cameras and I respect that, but I kinda just use peer pressure to get a few people to turn on cameras -- I turn on mine, a few others will hit theres to match, and then whoever is speaking can see that they're actually speaking to someone. One on One meetings, I just follow whatever the person wants. If they don't immediately turn on their camera, I won't.

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onan@reddit

I'm not sure what you mean by "these days." In my experience, that has been the universal expectation for at least fifteenish years. While I am a huge fan of remote work, remote meetings are a small bit less effective than in-person ones. Everyone being able to see one another goes a long way toward offsetting that.

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entimaniac91@reddit

I've been remote since covid. I turn on my camera most times because I'm in a leadership position and want people to have as much opportunity for nonverbal commication as possible to help drive my points across. I absolutely don't expect it from anyone else, and most of my calls with other people are (1 on 1 or in a group), most people have the camera off. I think camera presence is like clothing, it's a choice and it's not reasonable for someone to have an opinion on what you choose to wear.

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ohmyashleyy@reddit

I’ve never asked anyone to turn their camera on, but I have one skip-level employee who never has his camera on and having 1:1s with a black box is so frustrating. It feels like I’m talking to a brick wall.

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jasnah_@reddit

Perfectly reasonable, rational approach imo!

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hnnnnnnnnnnngg@reddit

I’m a bit surprised with the number of comments about being ok with mandated camera on (though I do understand it in practice). Remote is hard. And it’s even worse when it feels like you’re talking at a wall. For me, I really couldn’t care less if camera is on or off as long as conversation is free flowing and people are engaged. I want to work with people who recognize that and are engaged when remote, and for me personally, that usually translates to mic always on on my end so that I can give verbal mm’s and ah’s and communication is happening that way. Nods and thumbs up also help a lot with that when video is on, but mics are off. One or the other, but not neither, I suppose for me.

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yesman_85@reddit

We're a strict no camera company lol. Unless the client has its on, ours is off. Especially internal meetings

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MelAlton@reddit

Mine's the opposite - cameras off for all meetings, since we're nearly always sharing someone's screen and working collaboratively. So we're either looking at that person's screen, or we're working on something and not paying attention to the meeting video.

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B1tF8er@reddit

It’s a job if the boss asks you to turn on the camera when you are working from home you just do it. What is the big real about it? If you are too sick to work just ask for a PTO and do not show up. lol devs are so entitled to this type of bullshit is just fun to see And if you do not like the policy start searching for another job where they do not give a shit about cameras being on

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codefyre@reddit

Camera on is mandatory with my current company. You are being paid to not only write code, but to interact with your team during work hours. The company defines the terms and requirements of those interactions. If you don't want to use the camera, you should probably seek employment from a company that doesn't require them. Though, they're increasingly uncommon nowadays. > She has forced people to switch on their cameras even if they're sick, running noses Why are people working when they're sick? Even if you're WFH, you should be taking sick days and not working when you're ill. Sick people make more mistakes, sick people are less productive, and the stress of working while your body is fighting an illness can make that illness worse and last longer. You have sick days. Use them.

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grauenwolf@reddit

Those interactions do not include voyeurism. I'm not a stripper, you're not paying me to look at me.

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ChinoGitano@reddit

Earth calling Utopia …

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codefyre@reddit

It's not utopia to call in sick when you're sick. In 25+ years, I've worked with precisely two companies that had problems with employees calling in sick, and both were garbage companies that deserved their eventual implosions. Most companies don't have a problem with you calling in sick, if you're really sick. Just don't abuse it.

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Entuaka@reddit

Totally normal for us That would be weird for someone to turn off the camera, we're used to it now, that would be like going to a meeting at the office and hiding your face

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Impossible_Way7017@reddit

Typically turning the camera off means your not at your desk. It’s pretty normal to leave it on. Unless you’re in government.

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freethenipple23@reddit

I think it's completely tone deaf to how being visually perceived in the workplace, especially tech, affects women negatively. I get taken way more seriously because no one knows what I look like. Once they see my face, they think I'm a college graduate or worse, hot. Then they either dismiss everything, or worse are inappropriate! I just straight up won't do it unless it's someone from HR or an exec.

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Whitchorence@reddit

I don't like cameras off because nobody (including me) is giving it their full attention so I think the policy is reasonable.

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MUFC951@reddit

How hard is it to put a camera on? And it makes a big difference in how easy it is to communicate with eachother

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fopomatic@reddit

I recommend moving to a rural area with such poor internet access that turning your camera on freezes the stream altogether. At least that's how I've gotten out of the camera mandate for the last five years or so.

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SupermarketNo3265@reddit

> she has a tendency to throw a tantrum or yell. That's the biggest red flag here

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peeba83@reddit

For me and my team, it depends a lot on the nature of the meeting. Standup? The facilitator is on cam but usually nobody else is for their short and straightforward updates. Small group working session or roundtable? Cameras all around; expressions are part of this deeper communication. And yes, if someone is not feeling well or has some other extenuating circumstance, we don’t fuss.

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Trick-Interaction396@reddit

Back in the day when we had in person meetings it was normal for people to not be paying much attention during meetings. For whatever reason camera meetings have an expectation of participation. If you just act normal you will be less stressed about cameras.

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guhcampos@reddit

I'm a "all cameras on" type of person myself. I don't like the feeling I'm taking to people while they're probably scrolling their phones.

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tomqmasters@reddit

wfh doesn't mean still show up for meetings if you are sick.

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NotACockroach@reddit

That sounds a little strict, but I do truly hate meetings where I'm not even sure if anyone else is there. When you ask a difficult question, people who are perceived often feel a little uncomfortable not answering, and so make an effort. When I'm speaking to a black screen I often get absolutely nothing.

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dank_shit_poster69@reddit

Autistic employees don't have to have their cameras on, neurotypical people can if they want.

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gefahr@reddit

Don't speak for all of us autists. I find it *very* exhausting to not be able to see people's reactions when I speak. Like I would find a new job if that was the culture. No need to force people into arbitrary buckets. Some people like camera on and some don't.

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dank_shit_poster69@reddit

Agreed. Not saying for all workplaces. Just for my workplace.

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gefahr@reddit

Fair! Glad people are somewhere that is accepting of their working styles.

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Grandpabart@reddit

Ultimate pissoff: When the mandated camera-on policy is ignored by c-suite because they're on their phone.

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Certain_Ring403@reddit

Yup it’s pretty normal. Just like when at the office, wouldn’t go to a meeting with something covering your face without a good reason.

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fllr@reddit

Man, how has the world changed. Lol

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bwainfweeze@reddit

Control Issues, or aphantasia?

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shiversaint@reddit

Camera on by default. You’re already working in a suboptimal situation by being remote - wanting to make communication better is pretty standard.

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AbbreviationsFar4wh@reddit

Depends on the group and what the meeting is. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. But leans to no most of time. Lots of external meetings w people who go camera off too. Doesn’t matter org size there’s no consistency other than meetings w gov employees are basically always camera off. Im always camera in when i meet someone for first time though

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Deranged40@reddit

At some companies, yep. At other companies, there's no such expectation at all.

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brentragertech@reddit

It’s part of my employee handbook where I’m starting Monday. As a former start up cto I am totally used to it, but I’m sure gets tiring for some!

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latchkeylessons@reddit

With executives and nervous middle management, yes. It's always been that way. Most executives are deeply insecure people that need to both A) have a lever to pull to demonstrate power, and B) coerce social control over people they see they can dominate 1 on 1, where the typical engineer is quite easy to in a social setting.

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danintexas@reddit

My team doesn't do cameras. I have flat out refused them before. I foster great team bonding and communication with clear written communication, not playing office politics games and I don't put up with office bullies. We are all professionals. There is ALWAYS word to do. Do it.

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redditisaphony@reddit

I assume you’re essentially absent or not a participant if you have your camera off (unless it’s an exception for a stated reason). That’s sometimes okay. But you’ll be evaluated as such, and this is known.

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HalfHero99@reddit

My company has WFH, good WLB and are generally understanding about families. So standup, camera on but not mandatory if life gets in a way. Big long meeting, 50/50. 1 on 1, entirely person dependant.

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drcforbin@reddit

Most of my company and the people I interact with are remote. We haven't all met each other in person. I feel like cameras really help, like nobody is going to see me roll my eyes at Bob's bad idea without it, and may take him more seriously than they should.

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composero@reddit

Our skip manager recently requested that we do this and I complied for a little while but then noticed my own manager wasn’t doing it so I just followed suit. It’s been months and my manager hasn’t been corrected on it so I’ve just followed in their footsteps to show alignment (my manager is awesome). That being said, if I’m presenting something I will absolutely turn my camera on.

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soft_white_yosemite@reddit

I worked at my last job for 3 years. If I ever met people who work there in person, I wouldn’t know who they were. Most devs never talked during meetings and they never had their cameras on. As a result, I couldn’t give a shit about any of them.

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Eric848448@reddit

He probably wants to make sure you aren’t masturbating during the meeting.

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Turbulent_Tale6497@reddit

Also depends on the size of the meeting. 1:1s, yes. 3 or 4 people? Maybe. Huge all hands? No.

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AdWonderful2811@reddit

Yes, true especially if you’re working w/ US based teams. However it is now getting normal in the UK as well.

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Euphoric_Can_5999@reddit

No this is insane

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Drazson@reddit

We have a strict don't give a fuck policy. Of course it's weird if you're newer and don't wanna show face or the topic is blurrying the limits of the professional setting and being more chill/personal for whatever reason. But yeah, specifics at that point.

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earlvik@reddit

Both are valid option, but it's fascinating to see comment here saying it's difficult to imaging talking to people without seeing their faces. No it's not diffucult. It's called a phonecall. We've had those for a century.

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sndrtj@reddit

I actually find it rude not show your face. Really comes across as dismissive, and so much of human communication happens through non verbal means I will probably understand you less well than otherwise.

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jdlyga@reddit

We are “supposed to”. But it really depends on the meeting. Most people have cameras off unless it’s a 1:1

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staminaplusone@reddit

So go into the office then.

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BigLoveForNoodles@reddit

Varies widely. At my wife's job, it's required. At mine, I'd say that cameras are on maybe 5% of the time, although once one person turns on theirs, there tends to be a domino effect of others turning on their cameras as well. I get the arguments in both directions. My on-camera meetings always seem to go better than my off-camera meetings, but I also don't want people to feel pressured or uncomfortable.

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RedditNotFreeSpeech@reddit

I haven't turned my camera on once in the past year and I'm in meetings every day

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camelCaseCoffeeTable@reddit

Idk if it’s the norm, but I see zero issues with it. “Looking disheveled”? So don’t, it’s work, not a hang sesh - if you know you’re gonna be on camera and that’s stressful to you because you look disheveled, well…. That’s an entirely solvable problem you’ve created for yourself. Maybe it’s cus I started my career pre-COVID, but my god you come across as whiny here. I would just quit before telling her that you straight won’t turn your camera on. It’ll do far less damage. This isn’t the company for you.

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muuchthrows@reddit

Although I’m a big fan of WFH, I completely agree. Is it really that hard to maintain the very low standard of being dressed and have your hair combed before showing up for a work meeting?

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camelCaseCoffeeTable@reddit

I adore WFH. I am exclusively WFH these days, definitely am not arguing against WFH. But yeah, total agreement that if you’re asked to turn your camera on while WFH, the your damn camera on. It’s a job, you’re being paid to be there. Turning on your camera is absolutely not a big deal, telling someone you refuse to do it and don’t need to justify that refusal is a big deal and risks impacting your career

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one-wandering-mind@reddit

That seems odd especially for hybrid. Sometimes cameras off sometimes can drift to cameras off all the time. I work somewhere that is mostly cameras off. Exceptions are small meetings where you don't know the people and large meetings with management.

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mint-parfait@reddit

culture thing. it sounds like she has no trust for anyone

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sarhoshamiral@reddit

It should be the norm but it should also be the norm that you dont work if you dont feel fine physically or mentally. You could argue it is not different from phone conversation but remote work wasn't as effective when we relied on phones only.

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YetMoreSpaceDust@reddit

I keep my camera on all the time anyway, but I'm curious... why the reluctance to turn them on? Surely sick/running noses/looking disheveled is relatively uncommon?

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chefhj@reddit

We don’t have explicit rules to do it so I typically don’t unless the host has theirs on/it’s specifically requested. However any 1x1 type meetings I’m definitely camera on by default.

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gomsim@reddit

We have no rules. Nobody has mentioned it. We just always have cameras on. One time a guy was a little bit sick but worked anyway and said he'd keep his camera off. Nobody complained.

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judonojitsu@reddit

It’s pretty normal now in our culture. Eng still does keep them off time to time but biz and product always have them on.

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DogmaSychroniser@reddit

From Europe, if you're sick why are you working?

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Bushwazi@reddit

Our company is encouraging this, but unless there are like 5 people, i dont bother turning it on. When there is like 20+ people what is the point?

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marx-was-right-@reddit

The cameras on people at my company are usually the biggest air heads and not good at engineering or communicating

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RubikTetris@reddit

Honestly I think it’s the bare minimum when you work from home. And I’m a big sucker and advocate for wfh

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thefragfest@reddit

Honestly camera on should be the default. If you’re sick or need to get up for a min or something, then sure turn it off. But I don’t personally think it’s okay to just say “I prefer it off” cause you take away so much communicative information from everyone else when you do it. It isn’t hard to put on a clean shirt and comb your hair so you can be on camera imo.

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BiologicalMigrant@reddit

If you're going into the office 5 days a week would you hide behind a wall and talk from behind it?

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Outrageous-Welder800@reddit

Tip: use a 200px camera or a mouse sensor instead.

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snipe320@reddit

> It depends

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telewebb@reddit

We implemented cameras on policy after it became clear that a lot of people were treating meetings as a podcast. A couple people quit over it and there was a lot of backlash. I kinda understood about their points, but at the same time it reminded me of one of those liberties we could take as long as no one abused it. And folks were more mad that they got called out on that abuse.

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fknbtch@reddit

it's not a requirement for mine at all and to think it's disrespectful is nuts. we are ranked very high in job satisfaction among our employees. we're a decent sized company and pretty popular.

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2old2cube@reddit

Can there be any legal points, because you are basically allow other to your private space. Like there is some medication on the shelf next to you. Or some religious symbol. Or your SA, which happens to be of the same sex walks by. And you are fired. And then you sue, because "they fired be because of my helth/religion/sexual orientation". Or is this take completely bonkers?

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wyldstallionesquire@reddit

I far prefer cameras on. And for a fully or partially remote team, I’d honestly say it’s kind of critical to a healthy team in the long run.

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Leading_Analysis7656@reddit

With the exception of when somebody sick, I think you should have a camera on. It’s a polite, otherwise it’s like talking to the void. I’ve definitely had meetings where somebody has had their camera off and we asked them a question and it turns out they are not even there. What more, I’m just generally assume if your camera is off, you haven’t showered/dressed that day i.e. the person isn’t professional. That said if it’s a giant meeting for the entire company/org and you’re not doing the talking, I think camera off is OK in that case.

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double-click@reddit

Engineering manager here We do cameras on sometimes. If the team is debugging its camera off. People pace, make weird faces, whatever. I don’t care they don’t want to be on camera. Staff meetings or other team wide engagements I try to encourage camera use.

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teerre@reddit

Maybe I'm old fashioned but I don't see how requiring you look presentable when there's a meeting is too much to ask. It's the same as if it was in person.

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Ilookouttrainwindow@reddit

They tried to do this to us, but our excuse was - we aren't sales and sales is better in person, so if you want to see me, let's meet face to face with client. Also your lady sounds very unprofessional.

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atomiccat8@reddit

I think it depends on how many attendees there are. If there are more attendees than will fit in one view, then it seems to be more acceptable to turn your camera off.

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samsounder@reddit

If you have a reason, that's cool. I'll often say, "I'm eating lunch and don't want to make you watch". As a default, you gain more from communication if you can see the other people.

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tizz66@reddit

At my company, camera on is the default. We don't have a rule about it afaik, it's just the culture. It's fine to excuse yourself if you're eating/looking disheveled etc., but I think it'd be weird if you were off-cam and didn't mention why. I came from a company where no-one _ever_ had their cam on, so it was uncomfortable to start with. But now I think I'd feel very disconnected if I didn't see everyone in meetings. Remote company, fwiw.

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Politex99@reddit

Ours is recommended during standup. I did not pay much attention when I was a Senior but when I became a Tech Lead, I always keep it open. I don't say anything if other should keep it open or not. I keep it for my self, the VP that recommends it does the same. It's a domino effect. Now around 80% of devs in standup keeps the camera on. But at the end it's based on company. I would be very annoyed if I was forced to keep it on. Despite the fact that I do personally, I still like to have the freedom of choice.

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olddev-jobhunt@reddit

I generally have mine on for my daily standup. Otherwise, it can go either way. For any one on one, I like having it - feels more like a conversation. For other meetings, I don't feel bad hiding a bit.

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EnigmaticDevice@reddit

depends on the company, but personally I'd despite this. camera-on meetings are significantly more draining due to the psychological feeling of being watched/observed the whole time, even if nobody is actually looking at you. not to mention having to be 'presentable' puts a much higher expectation of effort on women than men, and I do not want to have to style my hair and put on a bra and do my makeup for a single 30 minute meeting where I might not even end up saying anything

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binocular_gems@reddit

It should be normal. I hate being in a meeting, especially a small one (5-7 people) and everybody has their camera off. You can’t see reactions or have a good conversation, imo. For a big group meeting where there’s one person presenting to many I think it’s fine to have cameras off. It’s also fine once in a while to turn them off… eating, blowing your nose, etc.

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Adept_Carpet@reddit

From the beginning there's been an expectation to have cameras on and be dressed as if you were at work (we have a bit of a dress code, which makes sense given the type of place we are). A collared shirt anyway. The nature of our work is to have 50 different bosses, some are more or less OK with you being off camera if you don't feel like being seen. Certainly no tantrums, no one is allowed to throw a tantrum, but the general sentiment is that if you are not well enough to appear on camera you should use your sick time and recover so you can participate fully.

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phonyfakeorreal@reddit

Depends on the team/culture but cameras on is pretty normal/expected. However, getting yelled at for not is toxic

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kr0n0sd3us@reddit

Big group 10+ people camera off. Small group camera on, that my unwritten rule and seems like the rest at my company do the same.

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kaflarlalar@reddit

We default to cameras on but we're not anal about it. I think that's the sane way to do it. In my last company, we didn't have much expectation of keeping cameras on and you could tell that most people were multitasking during meetings. We also had too many meetings.

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WiseHalmon@reddit

y'all need to watch Krazaam

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gizamo@reddit

We don't because our meetings are usually international. We don't expect people to dress appropriately for work when it's early morning or late evening for them...or, you know, noon (for us remote workers). Lol.

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pacman2081@reddit

It varies from company to company. Some care. Some don't

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Pariell@reddit

I haven't turned my camera on in 4 years

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GloppyGloP@reddit

It’s work. Get dressed. Get presentable. Participate and engage with people. It’s the bare minimum. If you’re sick, call in sick. Turn on your damn camera.

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svhelloworld@reddit

We are all cameras all the time and I think it’s necessary. I watch how people react to discussions and it tells me if what we’re talking about makes sense and if people agree or disagree. If you don’t have your camera on, it feels like you’re not even there.

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knie20@reddit

for me, it's fully remote, so it's always good to see people's faces. It's pretty flexible too, if one day I am not on my laptop I'll turn the camera off but I try to have it on whever possible. Keyword here is "I", I want to do this, as do my teammates. My manager would remind but never demand.

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Blump_Ken@reddit

Being able to visually see someone if they're potentially sick or feeling unwell is an advantage. If somebody was working while looking like death it can start a conversation or check in to get them to potentially take the day off and rest instead of attempting to soldier on.

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ShaniquaQ@reddit

Nerp

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turningsteel@reddit

It’s kinda expected to keep cameras on at my company but they don’t care if you have it off. I just like to put mine on unless I’m sick so they can bond with me and feel badly about laying me off if that ever happens.

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pumpkin_spice_daily@reddit

I personally enjoy communicating with people with cameras on. I think it provides more ways to get to know someone and non verbal communication is a massive part of communication in general. I have found that communication is more efficient because I can judge what a pause means, when someone is paying attention or not, see someone nodding, etc. Also, I found that higher ups like when cameras are on. You can call it corporate bootlicking, I'd rather not give those guys any excuse to pull the trigger on RTO.

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MrIcedCafeMocha@reddit

It depends on company culture. There are a lot of people here saying it’s required. Maybe for you it is. Your experience is not the rule. I’ve been remote for 8+ years, not once has it been mandatory for my team or I.

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Bulletproof-Salmon@reddit

Depends on the team/company/etc. I have not seen my colleague's faces in years.

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false79@reddit

working remotely is a privilege. A highly sought after benefit. Doing something small like turning your camera on ranks pretty low in the things they can ask. Online meetings are to simulate what IRL. Going camera off makes it less than that.

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Infamous_Ruin6848@reddit

Depends on culture but mostly yes. I keep it on in general 99% of time but the time it's 1% my manager knows something is fishy so he nastily trolls me on that.

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Bubbly_Safety8791@reddit

The word for a remote meeting with cameras off is a ‘conference call’. You can have conference calls if you like, but they aren’t the same thing as video meetings. Having spent many years in companies where conference calls were the primary mode of remote collaboration, getting video added has always seemed like a massive leap forward. Most importantly, now when you are speaking on mute other people can see and tell you you need to unmute.

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apartment-seeker@reddit

As a norm or custom, yeah, it's usual for people to have cameras on the vast majority of the time. As a mandatory rule as you describe it, sounds annoying AF. > i mostly just throw a shirt on and join meetings on days when i m WFH. bro are you not wearing a shirt most of the time T___T

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Poat540@reddit

We started this for our standups, not every meeting though

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TonyNickels@reddit

Yes. Easy thing to do to keep people happy. I'll live stream my bathroom too if it means I can just work remote. Still beats everything about in office culture. A lot of companies started camera requirements when they claimed people were having different people work than the person who interviewed.

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NonProphet8theist@reddit

There's like maybe one other dev that has his camera on consistently, and some managers do it. Mostly everyone else barely has profile pics. I don't know what most people look like, tbh. It would be nice to know more local folks by face but ultimately it doesn't affect my work that much in the end.

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flundstrom2@reddit

I think it's rude to not have the camera on. It signals lack of attention. Kind of like sitting under the table in the meeting room. Dressing for work even if working from home is a mental signal to 'enter work mode'. Who cares what's in the background? Why not take the opportunity to show a little more personality by strategically placing stuff on the shelves behind you. But it's a bit of company culture as well. At my office branch, everyone has camera on. At another office branch, ppl barely have camera on even when they are sitting at their desks. And some call in to meetings from the commuter trains or while driving to the office.

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diablo1128@reddit

Depends on the company / team. At my last job nobody turned their camera on and it didn't really matter at the end of the day. Nobody needed to see each others faces during standup. Even in some random software team meeting people were looking at the shared desktop so you face didn't matter. The only time people turned their cameras on was when the meeting was with upper management or customers. They cared more about the "face to face" interaction. The people I talked to everyday on the team didn't care to see you face.

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thomas0088@reddit

I always have it on and so does the team I work in but at the same time no one ever cares if you turn your camera off. Assumption is you're doing something and probably listening from another room or you're hitting a vape. Also people have multiple screens and no one cares if you're staring elsewhere than the camera. So why would you keep the camera off?

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FarYam3061@reddit

It's just weird when people have cameras off. Idc but it's still weird

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EmptyPond@reddit

Depends on culture I guess, I've been at places across the whole spectrum from it being mandatory and people hating it, people in general always having it ok unless they had some reason to no one having there camera on ever

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joshhbk@reddit

You are at work dude. If you’re sick then call out. Would you go to a meeting in office and sit with your back turned to the rest of the group?

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rm-rf-npr@reddit

I feel like its normal. I'd like to see the people I'm talking to but I guess that could be just me? 😅

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ivancea@reddit

Cameras work like a virus. If there's one guy that doesn't connect it, some others will say "well, me neither", and eventually it's the manager or team leader talking alone against a wall of muted images. So yeah, unless you have good reasons to not have it, be a good teammate and try to help with communication. Image is part of communication, whether you think about it actively or not; even more in international teams with non-native speakers that would highly appreciate seeing who's talking. Now, let me ask you a question: why would you actively work towards damaging communication and making it harder for everybody? Why dynamiting the team effort? Think about it

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Dismal-Variation-12@reddit

I probably wouldn’t work somewhere that don’t emphasize cameras on. Communication is more difficult when you can’t see the person.

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HoratioWobble@reddit

We have cameras on, I don't mind it but they're okay if we turn them off if it's not appropriate

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brotherkin@reddit

I prefer cameras on as much as possible. It’s hard to gauge people’s reactions or interest otherwise Also it kinda forces naturally messy people to clean up a little, which is a happy bonus

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Only_lurking_@reddit

Small team meeting we have camera, large meetings we don't. I don't really care if people have or not.

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LordMOC3@reddit

Expecting cameras on is whatever. Even if someone is visibly sick is drawing a line, though, imo

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Lceus@reddit

Camera on is good for hybrid and remote imo - of course there should be allowed exceptions, so if that's your issue with your manager then I get it. But I genuinely think it's a good rule to, by default, always have your camera on unless you have a good reason.

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KronktheKronk@reddit

I also hate it, and have been at companies that don't care so much and been at companies who fire people for not. I usually leverage feminism for this one and point out how much harder it is for women with much higher expectations of presentability to be comfortable and more casual at home. This tends to make them rethink their positions, but not always.

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Kaikka@reddit

We always do this and thats how I prefer it, at least in small meetings.

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DocLego@reddit

Unless I'm speaking, my camera stays off. Regardless of whether or not I'm in the office.

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low_depo@reddit

I work in large corpo 100k+ employees In last 8 years I was twice on camera during interview for project and it was max 30min. What ua the point of being on camera every time? 😆

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kouro_sensei_007@reddit (OP)

She is head of engineering. I cannot comment on her tech knowledge because i havent had a deep technical discussion with her. But i can definitely tell from her attitude and the way meetings are driven when she is there that she micromanages.

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Moonskaraos@reddit

Cameras are voluntary at my employer. No one cares either way. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone complain or suggest they be mandatory. But some of the bootlickers here sure love their cameras, lol.

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dymos@reddit

I would 100% **only** comply with that when it's convenient for me. Generally I tend to have my camera on in small meetings, but sometimes I'll turn it off if I'm eating or something like that. In large meetings like department/company all hands I'll often have my camera on at the start while we make small talk before getting started, but only if I feel like it. When we get started I'll usually turn my camera off, unless I need to speak. I think if you're part of the conversation then it's generally good etiquette to have the camera on _if you're able to and when practical_. That said, that's my personal feels, and if someone on my team wants to keep their camera off, and some of them frequently do, I don't care. > [...] cameras on for all meetings irrespective of where you are and what your circumstance under the guise of "i dont judge". Oh, really, no judgement ;) > [...] and is very nosy about whats going on for them to not turn it on. Oh, I guess some judgement after all. Your HoE is a hypocrite at best here IMO. She needs to accept that working remotely and in-office have different expectations and that includes people's choice to have their cameras off in certain circumstances.

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Incorrect_ASSertion@reddit

Tbh I feel this is well within the right of the employer to ask for you camera to be on. You are at work after all even if remote. And I'm writing this as an European and in my company there's no mandate but they encourage us and almost everybody comply.

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aerfen@reddit

In a meeting in which I'm participating, or a meeting that's small enough that you can see everyone on one screen in teams, I'll have my camera on and so will everyone else. In an all hands with hundreds of attendees, if I'm not presenting I'll have the camera off.

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caffeinated_wizard@reddit

>She has forced people to switch on their cameras even if they're sick, running noses, looking dishaveled, etc, and is very nosy about whats going on for them to not turn it on. Lot of them (including me) comply because she has a tendency to throw a tantrum or yell. Is it a tantrum to ask your employees to be professionals at work or are you just saying that because of her pronouns?

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serial_crusher@reddit

I personally prefer camera on, but it varies by team culture. Could just be my company, but the people who lean towards camera off tend to also be less engaged over all and less productive. I don’t think forcing those people to turn their cameras on would change anything though. Symptom not a cause. Either way, making it a hard requirement is shitty boss move. When we first went remote I had a boss like that. Like literally I had to ask him for an exemption to keep my camera off the time I was calling into a meeting during my chemo treatment.

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asarathy@reddit

you should default to camera on. It should be ok to occasionally have the camera off if you don't make it a habit. When I do have my camera off, I will usually give a reaon why "I didn't have lunch and I don't you to see me eating". If you reason is something that is happening a lot like i didn't shower that's not great. If it's I just got back from the gym and couldn;t shower before this meeting and it happens once in a while your bosses should be ok with it (provided it's not some super important meeting which maybe don't go to the gym before and not leave time)

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Affectionate_Link175@reddit

I was at my last job for 3 years and nobody ever had their webcam on, I'm not kidding I had close co workers who I've never seen.. I had no idea what they looked like. At my current company we have camera on by default, I thought I'd hate it but it's better this way.

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IronSavior@reddit

Let them throw a tantrum and yell. That problem will solve itself after a while.

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AbundantExp@reddit

My company is definitely not like that, although we're hybrid with 60% remote days. There are some meetings where we always use them and some where we never really do. The more senior enigeers and architects on my team tend to use there's a bit more, especially when there's a mix of cameras on + off.

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lordnacho666@reddit

There's an AI filter you can get that just shows you paying attention, even if you're not looking at the screen. Can't remember the name, but sounds like what you need.

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engineered_academic@reddit

I get really self conscious when meetings are recorded and turn my camera off. I also turn my camera off if I am not engaged with the meeting, e.g. an all hands or something like that where I am just a face in the crowd. Also my dog loves to live under my desk and make dog noises.

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ham_plane@reddit

Idk, I think I'd be hard for you to justify that, during a time you're being paid to work, it's unreasonable to be even somewhat presentable. It sucks, but it's not 2022 anymore, and you probably have to just clear this (very low) bar since it seems pretty reasonable.

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matthkamis@reddit

Nah I can’t stand having having my camera on

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