Who Else Thinks That The LED Streetlights Are Useless, Maybe Even Dangerous?

Posted by Gothic-Caesium@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 60 comments

So a while back, every council swapped out their old SOX streetlights (yknow the orange ones) for these new LED ones. Okay. Understandable, they save a LOT of money, on paper are much brighter, seems like a definite upgrade. But I've noticed something over a while that's been bothering me and I personally feel it's quite a big issue, and somewhat dangerous too.

The old lights gave off a massive (beautiful) orange glow and lit up the streets pretty damn well, but these new ones... Don't seem to be even NEARLY as useful. A street that about 5 years ago you'd be able to spot someone on the pavement from quite a big distance away, is now almost impossible to see anyone that's not just immediately in front of you. I know its not just my eyes.

Sure, everything looked orange under the older ones but personally I think you were able to make out shapes in amongst that effect much easier then than you can now with these LED ones. The streets are much darker now as a result of this. Its like a series of poles down the street with cold white laser pointers aiming directly at the ground. They light up directly below them and nothing else, isn't this dangerous? I am SURELY not the only one that feels this way, right?

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PurpleMonkeyEdna@reddit

My ex was absolutely obsessed with street lights, lanterns, anything like that. He goes for meetups a couple times a year with similar fanatics and they all have garages full of sox head lamps whatever you call them. They all absolutely agree with you, I don't have an opinion but the orange felt a lot more nostalgic.

(No shade to him, we're still pals).

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cheshirecat90@reddit

Lol it’s crazy what types of things people become fanatical about. Although lately I have been pining for those old incandescent Christmas lights for that cozy glow.

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Terrible-Shine5420@reddit

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug! This one hits hard and is really to be missed now it's gone. It's like the sun suddenly changing colour. Our nights will never ever ever be the same again. Fucked up really, it's huge

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PurpleMonkeyEdna@reddit

He was the first one I knew with that particular obsession. He made a lot of friends through the community and plenty were even local which surprised me. I guess you don't always know what people are really into and just how passionate they are until you get to know them. Aw those lights were the best! Christmas just isn't the same since I was a kid.

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Gothic-Caesium@reddit (OP)

I think that's what got me going ngl. I found an old set of incandescent ones in the attic and I was absolutely blown away at how much better they look.

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cheshirecat90@reddit

I’m trying my best to find some incandescent or even similar but no luck 😔

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Mega_Mushroom_@reddit

Try Ebay, you might find some there, but no guarantees they'll all be working, especially if theyre second hand. Im pretty sure its actually illegal for them to manufacture traditional bulbs nowadays, unless its for special purposes (like cars with halogen headlights, ovens, fridges) so good luck searching!

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Bees1889@reddit

Even at their peak it was 50/50 if they'd work when you got them out the loft. Core childhood memory checking through every bulb on the string

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mwhi1017@reddit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy7BrKNmZAQ
He's been doing this theme for years now \^\^

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Gothic-Caesium@reddit (OP)

Literally I am the same. Okay I don't have any sox lamps at home lol but I absolutely love them. The colour was just so much nicer and had a "glow" to it that just looked amazing.

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Squidgy-Metal-6969@reddit

If you like that colour maybe you'll enjoy the movie Locke (2013). The entire movie is illuminated by streetlights and I thought it was worthwhile.

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Lost_Security7696@reddit

You're definitely not the only one. The new LED streetlamps are useless. Councils might as well not bother putting lights on at all, for all the good they do.

I've always liked going for a run around my local streets in the evenings but since the move to LEDs, I can't during the winter as it's frankly dangerous. I can't see pot holes, uneven ground or puddles, whereas I used to be able see them clearly under the old SOX streetlamps and could run without worrying I was going to fall flat on my face or end up ankle deep in water!

Another thing I've noticed is that has been absolutely no media coverage about this. There's been loads of reports about LED car headlights being "too bright", but the main reason for them appearing so bright is because of it being so dark! If there was more ambient light from streetlamps, people's eyes wouldn't have to keep adjusting from pitch blackness to bright light every time a car approaches.

LED streetlamps may be saving money and energy, but that's basically because they don't do the job they're meant to do - light the streets!

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Any_Needleworker_966@reddit

Another thing I've noticed is that has been absolutely no media coverage about this.

It's probably because not enough people have spoken up against It. Along with the fact the majority of people probably don't notice or care for street lights.

What makes it even more frustrating is how you can get LEDs in many colours including Amber just like the old SOX lamps. But yet most councils love to choose the horrible cold white harsh LEDs. Probably because the white LEDs are very cheap to buy and install.

There's still a few high pressure sodium lamps near where I live on this main road, that somehow haven't been replaced by the council. Despite the nearby areas being absolutely covered in the LEDs. And whenever I drive under the sodium lights, it's a night and day difference. They light up the road far better and seem brighter while also being easy on the eyes.

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Terrible-Shine5420@reddit

They don't save money, they are not brighter, the light illuminates a fraction of the street the SOX / SON lights did. They also fuck with birds. Birds go absolutely mental tweeting at all hours of the night now outside my window. There's a couple of streets with son lighting (high pressure sodium) left near me. Not quite the yellow glow of low pressure sodium, but very warm and welcoming. And it's so unbelievably depressing turning the corner to be hit with dim, bleak cold LEDs.

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unknown_k18@reddit

Sadly we've had no dawn chorus this morning. Used to at least be doves and pigeons preparing to nest. ..

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Think_Special8301@reddit

So I was talking to someone not long ago. And it's the light spectrum that they use. They are brighter but the human eyes see best between 5000k and 6500k. I think most councils go too high which makes the lights less effective for our eyes

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unknown_k18@reddit

Yes thankyou for that fact. I find it harder to recognise the shapes of familiar buildings as I'm driving along, and not seeing a junction as early if there isn't a light right on it. We have rods in our eyes for daytime and cones for night, and imo, night sight is switched off by the dazzle, especially of headlights too. Even my 21yo grandson prefers the old ones, saying he could see road markings better. I taught him not to fear the dark but to wait for his night sight to operate. We used to do woodland nightwalks in our rural area to see and hear the nightlife.

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-TheHumorousOne-@reddit

Glad I've finally seen someone mention this. I always felt the newer ones were shitter. They could do with double the amount of lumens imo.

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Gothic-Caesium@reddit (OP)

I feel like if they were any brighter then they would just dazzle road users (more than they already do). But maybe if they properly diffused them, they would actually be a lot more effective. But yes, they're without a doubt, much shitter than the old ones.

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Due-Consequence-@reddit

I already struggle with the brighter headlights on newer cars (also LEDs, I think). They blind you for a second. Both those, and the newer LED street lights, can be a bit of a strain on the eyes.

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Feisty-Health9804@reddit

I think everyone does, but until someone regulates them we all have to have our retinas burned out.

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ContributionIll5741@reddit

I like high pressure sodium ones. brighter and kinda yellow-y orange. Low pressure sodium took ages to fire up and didn't produce enough light to distinguish colours. Agree that the LEDs can be too clinically bright.

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Terrible-Shine5420@reddit

They were a worthy upgrade from SOX/ low pressure. Unlike the bleak dim leds of today. How we have regressed. It's like turning the sun grey. How day they fuck with our night time atmosphere. Unfortunately I know why and it's not good. There are very sick people the likes of WEF / bill gates trying to fuck with nature so they can re create it themselves artificially. Blocking sun with geo engineering and messing with the breeding / day / might cycle of bees, birds, and most other animals through full spectrum LED lighting globally. Pushed through sustainability legislations globally, really it means that if you do this, eroding the harmony of nature for a couple of decades, you will eradicate private farming, and natural ecosystems to the point producing our own food is no longer economically possible. They will then be the sole providers of all food, all by a few big companies, all pumped with whatever shit they want. I wish this was made up, but they have openly discussed this as a more sustainable future. It's a satanic agenda

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Important_You_7309@reddit

What I don't understand is why every country that embraces LED street lighting seems to go for cool-white models. It's so sterile and cold, it gives everything a kind of hospital vibe.

I really wouldn't have a problem with them if they used warm-white, yellow or orange. I just can't stand cool-white.

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Terrible-Shine5420@reddit

There's an attack on our sanity and mental health from many levels, you'd be surprised at how deep it goes.

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Time_Resort4057@reddit

I can tell you one thing. Astronomers are the one that hugely affected by the new changes. The orange street lights are actually easier to filter than the while led which contains blue lights and make it harder to see the stars. The white led is actually contributing to more light pollution overalls.

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Terrible-Shine5420@reddit

Astronomers and literally evey bird nesting in a city that now have absolutely no idea when to sleep.

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sihasihasi@reddit

I thought the new ones were meant to be better for light-pollution, because they direct the light down, so don't light the sky as much (the exact problem OP is complaining about)?

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delurkrelurker@reddit

I think they're probably better for light pollution as theyre just very dim.

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cuccir@reddit

I research light pollution, and this is how LED lighting has been sold, but the reality is somewhat different.

In theory LEDs have some characteristics that make them better from an environmental basis: the light is easier to direct, you can dim them more easily, they require less energy to achieve the same level of brightness, you can install them in a range of colours if you need to (eg there is an innovative project in Worcestershire that uses red lights, despite the, err, connotations, in some areas as these are less disruptive to bats.)

However...

* There is increasing evidence that the blue light within LED lighting is more disruptive to insects [1]

* Local authorities have no cash, so they only replace the lantern and not the pole, which leads to LED lights being placed at wrong heights which (a) reduces the advantages of light being more directed and (b) creates pockets of darker shadows

* Related to the above, local authorities buy cheapo LEDs which can't do all the fancy dimming and smart lighting stuff

* Because lighting is cheaper and people presume that more light = safer, what happens is that rather than making decent savings from LED lights, the spend on electricity is maintained at similar levels but with much brighter lighting [2]

Well-installed, thoughtful LED lighting probably can deliver what everyone wants - less energy use, darker skies, enhanced safety - but it requires skilled lighting designers, and local authorities don't typically have the resources to get them in. Most of the best projects have been in national parks (like this), where there is an economic incentive (dark sky tourism) and an obligation to protect the environment.

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neilm1000@reddit

Not to mention our excessive exposure to blue light.

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shakaman_@reddit

Don't fall for that nonsense

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Frequent-Cobbler4232@reddit

I thought blue light suppressed melatonin, and it was as influential as brightness though glasses do nothing, genuinely have I been fed a lie?

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Milam1996@reddit

The blue light stuff is absolute nonsense. Light in general is what is disrupting your sleep. Put down the phone and pick up a book. You’ll be asleep in 5 minutes.

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aviewfrom@reddit

Was literally thinking this walking home in the dark yesterday. I’m taking to wearing a fucking head torch as I can’t see a damn thing and I live in a city.

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neilm1000@reddit

Happened longer than five years ago? Moving from orange to white I mean, not LED. Where I grew up had white lights in the late 90s. They were rubbish then and the LED ones are also rubbish.

Talking of this, I've never seen them change a bulb in a streetlight.

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delurkrelurker@reddit

That's because they only change them at night time, as you can't tell they don't work during the day, probably.

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Gothic-Caesium@reddit (OP)

Really? Where is grew up (and still live) they've always had the orange ones. there was even an orange one on its own as recent as 2 years ago... gone now.

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neilm1000@reddit

Yeah chunks of South Hams 'went white' so to speak in the 90s. There was one solitary orange one in my village until about 2010. It's all LEDs here in central Stockport: specifically where I am it's Victorian style lamps so you at least get some 'surrounding light' rather than just the spotlight effect.

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BugAdministrative683@reddit

Depends on the council.

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PralineMinimum8111@reddit

Yup, there is a street light outside my house, and yet when I reverse up my drive at night I can barely see. It acts like a weak spotlight directly underneath it and that’s about it.

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KingTribble@reddit

Same issue here getting onto my drive, since they changed the sodium lights for LEDs on our lane. They might as well not be there. All they seem to do is accentuate the darkness around them.

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Gothic-Caesium@reddit (OP)

I often park along the kerb outside my house, there is only street lights on the opposite sides of the road. So these new LED ones make it incredible difficult for me to park close to the kerb (and not scrape my alloys, im very worried about doing that)

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ExArdEllyOh@reddit

They suffer from the same problems as the new LED headlights - they are theoretically brighter or more efficient but the particular wavelengths they give off are wrong.
I noticed this particularly the other day when driving along a stretch of newly lit dual carriageway in the pouring rain. The lights were dazzling and scattered through every drop of water but somehow failed to provide sufficient information about the actual road.

Sodium lamps were effectively monochrome, which had it's problems, but they did seem to suit the way we actually see in the dark.

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BugAdministrative683@reddit

They're not good for insects.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/25/led-streetlights-moth-england-eco-friendly-sodium-insect-decline

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Master-Trick2850@reddit

Red is better for night time vision so you can actially see into the darkness. Cool white is just blue light, terrible for the eyes and night vision

And LEDs are wired up in such a way that if one fails, the entire street fails. You rarely see a single light dead

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sihasihasi@reddit

And LEDs are wired up in such a way that if one fails, the entire street fails. You rarely see a single light dead

Absolute bollocks. You rarely see a single light dead because they last longer.

You honestly think the council would dig up a road so they could wire the whole street in series ('cos that's what they'd have to do)? Complete and utter tosh.

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Anxious_wank@reddit

My area has had led lights since around 2012ish, walking instantly seemed that bit more vulnerable.

Mainly it's the eyes that struggle to adjust, the dark patches are dark that's okay, my eyes can cope, but then walking under a street light where eyes now need to flip always felt like it highlighted me and made anyone in the shadows less easy to see.

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PipBin@reddit

I agree. I walk home often through my estate after dark in the winter. I have to walk down the middle of the road as you can’t see the uneven paving slabs and dog shit on the pavement.

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pluk78@reddit

Yep, they create shadows for people to be in. They are horrible and a massuve downgrade in function over what they replaced.

Also, I'm a massive fan of them being turned off in the early hours when most people arent wandering the streets. People oppose it as a benefit to criminals, but it's much easier to see someone sulking about in the dark having to use their own light source, or setting off motion controlled lights, than it is to see someone moving in and out if the shadows of these lights. With crime stats published I can never find any increase in crime associated with the light switch off too.

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Underwritingking@reddit

I can't say that I've noticed at all, nor does it bother me in the slightest

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kingsleyweb@reddit

The ones national highways use on main roads and motorways seem to work well and are well thought out, local councils just replace the sodium lights with whatever was cheap on temu that week I think. Can’t see (whatever is left of) the road markings so well with LEDs either, there was better contrast with sodium.

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