And just for us non-aviation enthusiasts. It’s this running joke that the A343 relies on the earth’s curvature to achieve liftoff.
The A340-300/200s are known for their infamous hair dryer engines. Climbing on an A343 at near MTOW, you expect to reach cruising altitude around 40-50 minutes into your flight
The original failure of the SuperFan program is the source of this lore. This resulted in using CFM56 which wasnt design for use with quad sized jets
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAE_SuperFan
>...CFM56 which wasnt design for use with quad sized jets
Maybe originally not designed so, but the CFM56 was used to re-engine the (4-engine) KC-135 Stratotankers in the 1980s.
The engines on the A340-200 and -300 are very underpowered and result in quite sluggish performance, and that's why its engines are called hairdryers.
And that's also why they say that the A340 doesn't take off like a normal aircraft, it just keeps moving forward until the earth curves away from it.
I jabe floN on 747s many times ans.never been particularly impressed with the take.off. very smooth.
I find.theba 320./ a 319 much more "sensationnal". The thing seriously climbs.
And then a few seconds.in there is this big noise.when retracting l. Gears.
[u/TheGororb explained it here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1pfs57e/comment/nsmo3h6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), but basically the A340 was supposed to have better engines, but the manufacturer was unable to create the engine in time, and they ended up using the CFM 56 engines, basically the same ones used on the 737NG and A320
Well, they actually made an engine upgrade. Only -200/-300 modifications were powered by CFM56-5C which gave 150 kN of max T/O thrust. On later -500/-600 more appropriate RR Trent 500 were installed, they produce around 250 kN of max T/O thrust.
The A340 might have a low thrust to weight ratio but can still fly on 2 engines. Perks of quads back in the day and the whole ETOPS thing.
Losing an engine on a quad is 25% vs 50% on a twin was the rationale back in the day for how quads were safer. Virgin used this rationale for their “4 engines 4 long haul” slogan.
Airport choice is a must or no? I mean if there are mountains in some distance and on take of engine fail 340 need half of earths curvature to take of….
This made me legitimately laugh, thank you.
Reminded me of that old Ron White joke about an engine going out on a small plane and beating the paramedics to the scene of the crash
>So I flew in here to Phoenix from Flagstaff because my manager doesn't own a globe.
>He chartered one of those small private jets. I flew here on a plane this big, it was like a pack of gum with eight people in it.
>We were putzing along. We were going half the speed of *smell!* We got passed by a kite! There was a goose behind us and the pilot was yelling "Go around!"
>So about halfway through the trip, we start losing oil pressure in one of the engines, and the pilot says we have to turn around.
>It was a nine minute flight. Couldn't make it with that equipment.
>He came over the intercom and said "Hey, we're losing oil pressure in one of the engines," which I couldn't understand why he did, because he could have just turned around and said, "Hey, we're losing oil pressure." *"heard'ja"*
>Everyone else started freaking out, but I had been drinking since lunchtime, so I was like "Take it down! I don't care! Make sure you hit something hard, 'cause I don't want to limp away from this!"
>The guy next to me is *losing his mind*. I guess he must have had something to "live for". He says, "Hey man, if one of the engines goes out, how far will the other one take us?"
>I look at him.
>"All the way to the scene of the crash! Which is pretty lucky, because that's where we're headed! I bet we beat the paramedics by a good half hour! We're haulin' ass!"
https://www.quotes.net/mquote/11187
It’s really a part of his standup, talking about flying on a turboprop between flagstaff and Phoenix and an engine going out, would recommend just looking it up and watching
He basically makes the same joke where ever he is using close airports. I remember him at JFL and used Montreal and Ottawa. Plane flies slower than a fart.
Even though “rotation” isn’t as technically accurate as “curvature,” it works in this joke as wordplay with the takeoff-related aviation term “rotation.”
So I get the 4 engine requirement was for long haul flight regs. But is the meme about hairdryer engines because they didn't have better ones at the time or just because they put 4 smaller ones?
I'm not sure about this one, but in an older aviation post it was explained that Airbus had relied on the release of a new engine, which didn't happen (in time), and thus used these.
A mate who flew the -300, he never mentioned the climb time, but out of Canada, winter time (so ISA minus ??) full tanks back to Asia would get FL260!
And out of higher altitude airports, gear retraction would have the aircraft sink momentarily with the extra drag!
>Also PS. I’m an idiot. I wrote earth’s rotation instead of curvature. Oh well
eh, it sounds better. plus rotation implies curvature change relative to the plane.
On the other end of the spectrum as they keep on making twinjets longer and more powerful, the planes look like they’re inched from a tail strike when they rotate.
When the engine companies did not deliver the promised engine for the A340-200/300, and they had to settle for a 737 engine, Airbus should have just added a fifth engine in the tail.
The mighty Airbus Five-Star
Full, contracted Stretch 8 out of Rhine Main in early '73.... racing a hot air balloon to altitude.
Contrasted to a light loaded C141A out of Elmendorf driven by an old time light colonel that likely flew F86's in Korea.... shit n git
I also flew the A340-300. We only train single-engine failure at take-off, loss is 25% of power, that’s what it’s certified for. We did train double engine failure on the same wing, the most critical failure regarding performance, but that was on the air (simulator) and we did an approach and go-around in that condition, then another approach and landing. The go-around procedure with dual engine failure on the same wing was really interesting! It required selecting maximum thrust, continuing descent momentarily to achieve go-around speed and then proceed with the go around. There was a decision point during the approach (can’t remember if it was 1000ft or 500ft) from where you were commited to land since you didn’t have the time/space to do the go-around procedure with dual engine failure in the same wing, and simply had to land from that point forward.
It was a lovely aircraft and the one I enjoyed the most to fly!
ahh too cool, thanks for sharing!! makes sense re: only being certified for one engine failure on takeoff.
but that's crazy about the dual engine failure - trading some altitude for some extra speed to help with the climb/mixed approach. thanks for sharing!!
what else did you fly?
Doesn't the A340 have an automatic power reserve function in the FADEC? So it runs the other engines hotter to compensate for the engien out but I'm guessing they get torn down afterwards?
A handful of flights on the a340 were grounded because of issues with the FADEC primarily the engine protection parameters/rules.
From my hazy memory, yea it does run the other 3 hotter in case of failure (I'd hope 3 and not 2....in that situation during takeoff pray to the nearest deity)
I always loved the joke that a340 has 4 apu's but no actual engines
When i used to fly the vancouver to Singapore (via seoul) route back in the day, we used up every available inch of runway out of vancouver even on cold days lol. Also, reverse thrusters were mostly not necessary during landings. A340 hates flying and loves the ground
Yes but both pilots had to open their windows and flap their arms as hard as they could and the FAs had to jettison the drink carts out the rear door ASAP
A340-300s are notorious dogs. When Edelweiss took theirs to Vegas, upon flying out in summer, ATC would constantly ask if they were going to make climbing crossing restrictions or if they had terrain in sight.
Having flown precisely this A343 (9H-BIG), I can tell you it doesn’t have the most powerful CFM56 you can have on an A343… But still, I’d go back flying it tomorrow if I could… A340 is a gentleman’s aircraft…
This reminds me of that old clip from JFK ATC where the departures controller asks a VS A343 if he could turn on the other two engines because he was flying low enough to disturb his mother-in-law and he was going to get grief from her the next day when he saw her 🤣
F’in A343s, man…
Remember Emirates scrapped the tail out of MEL due to invalid weights and assumed thrust. This video really makes me wonder how they got off the ground.
Vvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee one..........
...............
Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee two.........ah........wait........there we go
Rooo.......roooooooooooooTATE........
\* Max climb rate is about 670 at sea level. I used to have to do climbing one during my private pilot training days due to density altitude in northern NM during the summer. 7120 ft was the airport I was flying into (LAM) after taking off from Albuquerque (5280 ft). Temp was in the 90s. Need I say more?
I also learned that the service ceiling and actual max altitude are not the same thing in a C-172 flying there. I regularly flew at 14500-15000 because of Wheeler Peak in my flight path going to Alamosa, CO during winter.
Madrid is surrounded by mountains where massive vultures live. There have been several high profile bird strikes, most recently affecting the new a321xlr and a350, but the a340 was the most problematic because of its low climb rate.
I highly doubt it that an A340-300 with one failed and three working engines would struggle significantly more than an A320, A330 or A350 with one out of two engines failing
I laughed at how long they left the gear down, almost just in case they touched a tall spot on a golf course or hill while grinding out that first 50’ of climb.
Flew one of these from LAX to Honolulu once. Thought I was going to have a heart attack when we were taking off on that runway going at the ocean and we just weren’t going up…the overhead bins were also so high up even normal height people (I’m 4’ 10” lol) could barely reach them. Interesting plane
I’ve never flown a 330 I don’t think. I just remember being floored by how high up the bins were on the 340, as were the other people boarding around us. There was a normal height guy behind me and he had to tippy toe to get his bag up. Might be a silly thing to note but I’ve never seen that before
There is a kernel of truth to the A343 being under powered. But, keep in mind the pilots are also using a thrust setting calculated for best efficiency given the temperature, elevation, and runway length. Most of the time they're trading a longer takeoff roll for less fuel burn and lower maintenance costs.
On the other hand if they're trying to get out of Phoenix in July, they probably really do need the whole runway and MTOW can take a hit too.
I love how you casually use the term "MTOW" without any further explanation in an explanation for "non aviation experts". 😂
And yes, I know what it means. ;)
Urban myth about a departure controller vs. A340
ATC: "ABC123, Confirm number of Engines?"
ABC123: "We have 4 engines"
ATC: "Can you please turn the other 2 on and start climbing to prevent a terrain warning"
Once I happened to be visiting the Udvar-Hazy Center near Dulles (IAD), in the observation tower, while an A380 was on approach from the south. It seemed like that behemoth was merely floating along in the breeze, I was awe-struck.
From that same tower I saw a fully loaded Japan bound 777 just roar into the sky. It was impressive. I don’t think an A340 would have cleared the Shenandoah mountains off to the west.
It’s like this type is afraid of heights.
The one time I flew in one, it was JFK to ATH on Olympic Airlines (before they got Aegean). Seemed like we only finally hit cruise when we were over the Mediterranean.
For once, the pilot sees the other end of the runway.
I mean they paid for the whole runway, might as well use all of it.
Remember the discussion when Finnair replaced MD11's with A330's and stop gap A340's (as 330's were in high demand and deliveries took multiple years). The comments were not ecstatic on the 340's performance, especially comparing to McRocketship.
Is it just me, or does the outbound engine look ....reeeeeeally outboard? It feels far out to the wingtip vs. a 747 or A380 (disclosure: this is entirely gut feel, I haven't checked photos of the other planes, let alone measured anything 😅)
I'm sure it's in the right place and all that, but I'm wondering why - to better load the wing and decrease stress at the wing root? Ingest cleaner air?
Twin engine Jets take of faster. That's true. If an engine failure occurs they have just 50% thrust.
A quad engine Jet has 75% of thrust if a engine failure occurs at v1
That has to be considered in the secury margins
But the A340-300 is definitely NOT overpowered 😅
It feels worth noting that [this particular A340's registration is literally 9H-__BIG__](https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/airbus-a340-300-9h-big-airx-charter/rqp2me).
A343, hair dryer engines....
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D\_ycyeSJUY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D_ycyeSJUY)
My flight from Zurich many years ago literally used the entire runway length, take off roll from the Displaced Threshold (Behind the Piano Keys)
I used to fly that thing , believe me we had trainings for 3 engine take-off’s. It’s limited to 6 hours of ferry flight if the non-working/failed engine fan blades unsecured ( basically windmilling free to rotate) and no limit if they are secured .
Nice video, OP. This looks like a sporty takeoff compared to the Nimrod R1's departing Aki during Op ELLAMY... Luckily they had half of the Med to transit to get to a safe altitude.
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