Engineering Explained | Owning A Lucid Has Been Super Disappointing

Posted by cofango@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 308 comments

https://youtu.be/1WiQAOmESH0 >"I have owned my 2025 Lucid Air Touring for nearly six months now, and have put about 3,400 miles on it. Unfortunately, these miles have seen numerous hardware failures, an abundance of software glitches/bugs, and have been accompanied by frustrating software design choices. In this video we'll break down all the problems I've had with the most expensive car I've ever owned."

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308 Comments

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xt1nct@reddit

I’ve had similar experience with the Mazda CX-70. Software issues are extremely annoying. Dealer always says, “can’t reproduce”. As a software dev, I came to a conclusion that less tech the better in general. This comes to cars and home. Software is acceptable in improving efficiency and in a business setting, where you have an employee who can work in it daily. I went pretty heavily into home automation and shit is like having a job of maintaining everything.

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2Drogdar2Furious@reddit

I did IT work for a while... I dont wont anything on my network unless it absolutely has to be. I even keep a loaded gun next to my cannon printer just in case 👀

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R_V_Z@reddit

Seriously, why does my washer have wifi. Ridiculous.

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crshbndct@reddit

It's so that you can put all your clothes in, leave for work, and set the washer to finish as you walk in the door so that you don't have to have your clothes sitting wet in a machine all day.

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rkhan7862@reddit

if you connect your lg washer to wifi and don’t run the cleaning cycles they void your warranty

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crshbndct@reddit

I have a 335i and a 1976 Corolla. I am selling the 335i to get a 1969 beetle soon. The corolla and Beetle are just so much nicer to drive than the BMW, even though it has more power. And they use vastly less gas too, look better, handling is more entertaining, and more accessible, since you don't need to be going 70mph to start having fun. In terms of safety - I am a Millennial, I really don't care at all.

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Jamaican_Dynamite@reddit

Yeah, stuff like what I'm seeing here isn't a good look. That's a lot of cash to pay to have those kinds of problems.

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Infernal-restraint@reddit

Guy sells Tesla in protest, turns out Tesla is the best EV cars. That's the reality, you hate the guy but he makes the best stuff. It's like the soup nazi

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Dats_Russia@reddit

Teslas really aren’t the best. Sure their software experience might be the best but Tesla owners who aren’t fan boys will say they would prefer physical buttons. When it comes to driving and safety features Tesla is getting lapped. Their all camera safety feature has directly resulted in accidents lidar based systems can see. Now does this mean Tesla is bad? No but it shows how with a certain percentage of Tesla fans there are blinders that keep them from seeing the traditional automakers are catching up and in some cases have caught up. I like physical buttons and so do customers so automakers are adding them back in for their Evs. Tesla may have won the charging format war but their focus of full self driving is actually making them a less capable EV. With a few exceptions they still have the best average range but they have squandered their market lead. To many new EV buyers, even if you put aside the politics, the cars feel dated since they haven’t had a refresh and consumers are flocking to other EVs

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Infernal-restraint@reddit

Do you drive a Tesla?

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munche@reddit

If Lucid was publicly traded we'd have weird stockholder fanboys doing this in all the Lucid threads too

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eggn00dles@reddit

as of now the guy who thinks LCID isn't a publicly traded stock is upvoted, the guy who corrected him is at zero, the guy who further clarified the PUBLICLY TRADED LCID stock is DOWN, is also downvoted. this is how accurate reddit posts are. feast away LLM's

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Infernal-restraint@reddit

Yup, this is the intelligence of Reddit

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Available_Win5204@reddit

Peak Reddit comment haha. How can you be this ignorant?

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Infernal-restraint@reddit

LUCID is down like 95%

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TraderJ1@reddit

Lucid is public, LCID

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SenhorSus@reddit

Best EV cars is debatable, but certainly the best range is Tesla by far

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munche@reddit

They actually consistently overrate their range more than almost any manufacturer: [https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html](https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html)

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Bengy222@reddit

For what it's worth even looking at that link it seems they have gone back to reality with the quoted range being almost spot for the recent model years

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Infernal-restraint@reddit

Tesla by far far far. People who don't understand this really don't get it.

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fhs@reddit

I would take that debate. Whenever I think of alternative cars to my tesla 3, the list is really short.

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PristineReputation@reddit

There are a lot of potential alternatives but if you want a reliable and reasonably priced sedan / hatchback a Model 3 is hard to beat

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fhs@reddit

Exactly and it's also much lighter than competing vehicles. Mine is 3582 lbs, which is great. Competing vehicles are at least 600 lbs more.

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Dats_Russia@reddit

Best average range. GM and lucid have EVs with absurd ranges that rival Tesla. Not all GM and Lucid EVs have top range which is why Tesla averages out better

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Dunkelz@reddit

Damn you really just go around glazing Tesla and Elon for free huh.

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AutoModerator@reddit

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VINdotORG@reddit

Lucid is a popular looked up vehicle… sadly they’ve been known for issues. 🔧

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miamiBMWM2@reddit

The minute this American brand was bought by the Saudi's, I lost all interest. Cant support a murderous, tyrannical regime with my dollars.

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NationalGolf1283@reddit

Selling my lucid private party turned me in an unethical person, but I had to get rid of it. It made me feel like I was finding a patsy. I live in cold weather and it took me 6 hours to charge to 50% then it stopped charging

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Intelligent_Top_328@reddit

Just get a Tesla.

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blr1g@reddit

He was a huge Tesla fan until DOGE laid off his wife. So, he gave Tesla the big FU, and got rid of his old Tesla and got the Lucid. It's like the dude can't catch a break. The other thing is, if he's leasing (I'm not sure if he bought it or not), he's going to be in for a WORLD of hurt. So many pissed off Lucid lessee's finding out how shit the company is for butchering people on the end of their leases. Like, stupid several thousands of dollars of wear and tear costs because the bottom plastic skid plate is scratched. DUrrrrrr... isn't that what it's there for? What do these fools expect? And, the stories I've heard about the insane wait times for repair work. I wouldn't be surprised if Lucid bites the bullet someday.

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skierpage@reddit

> I wouldn't be surprised if Lucid bites the bullet someday. Wrong phrase. "Bite the bullet" is an idiom that means to endure a painful or unpleasant situation with courage or determination. From the 19th century before anaesthesia when patients would bite on something to handle the pain of medical procedures. Maybe you mean "Lucid kicks the bucket" or "Saudi Arabia's Mohammed bone Saw will put a bullet in Lucid."

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blr1g@reddit

Yeah, someone already pointed that out.

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skierpage@reddit

Sorry, I missed their comment, despite expanding all the ⊕ symbols that Reddit inserts.

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EngineeringExplained@reddit

Just an FYI - Lucid sent out an e-mail to lessees that gives exact dimensions of scratches/dents etc and whether or not they impact the value (many of which, owners rightfully pointed out their cars did not match). So at least now we have a document to go against and say "nope." It looks like they're at least taking those stories pretty seriously, so hopefully that improves now that owners have official language from Lucid.

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RySean@reddit

Yeah, I had a 2024 Lucid Air Touring that I returned in October. I was dreading it based on the horror stories, but they only charged me $200 for some wheel rash (that visibly exceeded the length and they took a picture with it measured). There were a few other things on the car I'm surprised they didn't ding me for, so I was actually quite pleasantly surprised with the experience. I agree with a lot of your experience overall, though I never really had issues with the profile stuff. And your hardware failures definitely exceeded mine. Though fun fact- an issue you didn't experience because you're not in Arizona. If you park a Lucid outside during the summer, the front cameras overheat and it disables a bunch of the driving assist features until you've been driving for a bit and the airflow cools it down. I asked about it and was told it wasn't a hardware failure, it's just that the area where the cameras are mounted will hit 160F when parked under direct AZ sun and just exceed their thermal limits reliably 🤣

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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roger_enright@reddit

That leopard joke continues to give. So funny.

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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit

Agreed but at least he did something

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TheOliveYeti@reddit

I think it's worse tbh

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AutoModerator@reddit

No rage bait, memes, trolling, copypasta, or low-quality joke posts or comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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TheOliveYeti@reddit

uhh ok. Guess a mod loves Elon

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DrZedex@reddit

He still has his grc, right? So at least one car in the garage will actually work.

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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit

He also has a Ford Maverick

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Sillyfiremans@reddit

That's the struggle. I love EV's as daily drivers and Tesla makes the best ones by a long shot. Not a fan of Elon, but it sucks that in order to "vote with your money" you need to spend more to buy a worse thing.

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

Just buy used?

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ChrisPnCrunchy@reddit

Is buying a used EV a wise thing? I mean, like, is there a way to gauge battery health & are their people whose expertise is pre-purchase inspections for EVs? Do EVs have a feature similar to phones where you can enter the settings and see the “health” and how my charge cycles have been done?

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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit

I mean with how much their value drops, yes No way I’m paying new prices for an EV

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Sillyfiremans@reddit

I bought my model 3 new in 2020 so it hasn't done as bad as most EV's. I paid about 50k and it is now worth about 20. That is within the realm of normal vehicle depreciation. But there is no way I would buy a new EV today with depreciation of 50% or so in 18 months. Most EV batteries are warrantied for a pretty long time. Mine is 8 years 120k miles. I am not sure if you can see charge cycles, but you can run a test to see health.

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-SUBW00FER-@reddit

> I mean, like, is there a way to gauge battery health & are there people whose expertise is pre-purchase inspections for EVs? EVs have more ways to see battery health and cycles than ICE cars have of seeing engine and transmission condition. Tesla specifically you go into the service menu and you have an insane amount of car diagnostics and if there is anything wrong with the car systems.

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

1) Yes there are ways to do that 2) Battery degredation is turning out to be extremely minimal in the first place. Modern batteries are proving out to be such that the first range hit happens in the first year or so, but then it flattens out for a VERY long time, like 150k+ miles. 3) Buying a used EV with something like 7-15k miles on it is a GREAT deal. Someone else ate the big EV depreciation.

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Niyeaux@reddit

> I wouldn't be surprised if Lucid bites the bullet someday. they have a basically unlimited runway due to being owned by the Saudi Permanent Investment Fund. the only way they'd fold is if they keep shitting the bed for another decade plus until the Saudis finally give up on them.

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

Still remember former CEO and ex-Tesla engineer, Rawlinso gotten so much money from Saudis.

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Unlucky-Work3678@reddit

He made every mistake he could make

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AbXcape@reddit

that’s what happens when you make emotional decisions to be part of the hive. regardless of the topic

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_galaga_@reddit

Haven’t watched yet but from the quote this is in line with SG’s comments about the software experience. Sounds like if you’re that excited about the hardware you have to mentally push the software risk to the side and lease it so you’re not stuck with it forevermore. It’s also kinda horrific/amusing that today vehicles are shit on and develop a terrible reputation from hardware failures but as we move to EVs companies will be known more so for their software practices.

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captainpistoff@reddit

Actually the software sucks in most of the cars from the past 20 years too, people have just dealt with it since there hasn't been a great experience to compare it to. Portable tech, like phones, laptops and tablets, have become commonplace and much more refined and we now compare all tech to that experience. That's setting the bar for all industries and most others still don't view themselves as software companies. Hardware companies can rarely think life born and bred software companies.

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xarune@reddit

It's also worth noting that most of these non-software companies are unwilling to pay remotely close to what the big tech players who are building the smoother laptop/phone experience pay. They set the pay scales to match their mechanical divisions when the top software talent has opportunities to make 2-5x in the tech industry. That's not to say compensation guarantees quality, but it definitely helps stack the odds.

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AwesomeBantha@reddit

GM tried that with Cruise in Silicon Valley, but it seems like that effort’s been shuttered, and wasn’t Cruise just doing the autonomous driving software instead of the whole car experience? If you’re a good software engineer, on top of likely taking a pay cut and being expected to work more days in an office with a dress code, you’ll likely have to relocate to a region entirely dependent on the auto industry. I’m not an automotive industry software dev and don’t know any, so this perspective may be way off, but everyone I knew who wanted to design/build cars studied mechanical engineering instead of computer science.

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xarune@reddit

As far as I know Cruise was all autonmous driving stuff. They weren't doing any infotainment or "normal" car software (sensors, CAN Bus, etc). I'm work around automative software in big tech, including infotainment stuff in the past. The only people I know who have left for the auto industry are exec or very high level engineers/product-managers who are going to exec positions in automotive that presumably pay well. For the rank and file engineers who actually put the stuff together: there is almost no appeal for the reasons you listed and more. Easier to make tech money and play with cars as a hobby than work on engineering them for a living.

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_galaga_@reddit

Random thought but the budget constraints have to be massively different between pure tech vs automotive so in a sense you get what you can budget for. I would be the guy within the automotive company stumping for integrating with Google/Apple and using their software stack because it's their main focus vs a DIY automotive software stack. I saw similar things on the biotech/cloud software side.

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xarune@reddit

That's basically the sales pitch of AndroidAuto/Carplay starting as projected experiences from the phone and now move to AndroidAutomotive (which has open source and google integrated options) or Caplay Ultra which actually run the infotainment head unit. Those companies are able to leverage tech and knowledge they own for consumer experiences and bring it to the car. That said, OEMs still need to integrate that into their specific head unit and user experience with in house engineers and so you are back to salary issues. Apple/Google also don't offer things like ADAS/driving-software stacks or anything that works with the sensors (auto cruise control, lane keep, etc) so you can't leverage big tech talent there. The budgets are massively different in part because the work of a software engineer at a tech company largely scales at very little cost. An Android engineer makes a change and it's on a billions of devices with extremely little overhead. Car companies make [non-software] engineering changes and your entire supply chain and factory have to reflect that change for something sold in comparatively smaller volume. That's a big reason why software engineering salaries can be so much higher: much faster scaling at far lower overhead per engineer. To a car company: why should the person out of college with a degree in CS make more than the one with a MechE. They are also directly making income off the software, on a car that's far more squishy of a concept.

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Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit

> That said, OEMs still need to integrate that into their specific head unit and user experience with in house engineers and so you are back to salary issues True, but those integrations are vastly easier than creating a whole infotainment platform. It's basically just an MPEG transport stream (to the car) along with a few simple API endpoints for sending finger touch events and car status (battery level for EVs) back to the phone. The MPEG TS can be handled with OSS libraries. The car side is the kind of thing a junior SWE could cobble together, which means the OEMs can hire someone within their salary structure for a couple years. The junior will use it as resume experience to get a big-boy/girl SWE job at a real company, but the OEM will get something useful in the meantime. Also, look at all the aftermarket DIN-mount head units with CarPlay for $300-$500. There's either some reference design that everyone is licensing or the software is so simple that even these aftermarket companies can make it work.

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xarune@reddit

I have worked on one end of the integration equation before and call tell you that the OEMs I worked with are not throwing junior engineers at the problem. These are teams of tenured engineers. Add things like wireless connectivity, multiscreen, and deeper car integration become standard it gets more complex. And that's for the projected experience: companies doing whole OS integration have to roll their own stack on top of what Google/Apple provide for the entire head into experience. Those aftermarket head units tend to not offer the level of experience or integration that OEMs are satisfied with shipping these days. I have one and I like it, but they get away with a different quality bar. OEMs can't always parch OTA, and a bit enough screw up to a modern head unit means at least the backup cam is out, and at worse many more systems. Even if you can patch OTA you may end up with a recall stain to your image. So rolling cheap with inexperience has expensive risks.

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xt1nct@reddit

I am a dev but work for a manufacturing company. I am considered more like a consultant vs a full time employee. This is considered as part of my compensation package. I know other who works for similar companies and all their schedules were strict af and companies felt like it’s the 90s production line vs software shop. No dev will enjoy that environment. I work when I want, have competitive salary for the area and probably one of the best paid employees there. However, in my case the VP realized what value I bring and what will keep me there.

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

Car companies usually treated software as an afterthought. In other cases like with Honda, their Japanese customers believe they need to be the ones who adapt to the software, not that Honda should design software around their needs.

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AwesomeBantha@reddit

Seems like that’s Honda’s (and especially Acura’s) general mindset. Every car they’ve manufactured themselves is FWD unibody-based, with literally 4 exceptions: NSX, S2000, e, and then some Japanese market exclusive kei cars and trucks. You will buy the FWD unibody and you will like it, but maybe if we feel like it, we’ll make a niche RWD 2-seater with awkward market positioning. Afeela is even crazier. Who is going to spend $90k on a seemingly uncompetitive EV sedan? They’ve already kind of acknowledged it doesn’t make sense by not bothering to sell it outside California.

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an_actual_lawyer@reddit

That is because FWD unibody is a more efficient drivetrain which makes it easier to meet emissions and MPG targets. It also adds interior space, is easier to manufacture, etc.

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

Fun fact: the NSX was a transverse V6 because it was cheaper to move the FF layout to the back of the car than to develop a unique longitudinal layout. Most of the money went into the research into the aluminum body and chassis.

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freakinidiotatwork@reddit

It makes sense for FF and RR layouts to have transverse engines

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

The NSX is MR, not RR. Porsches use longitudinal engine orientation.

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Porencephaly@reddit

This is why CarPlay and Android Auto have been so critical for so long, and yet now you have all these car companies deciding not to include them to push their own software. It’s going to be a fucking nightmare.

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Astramael@reddit

Just don’t buy those cars.

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Porencephaly@reddit

I have no intention to, but we’ll have to see which brands keep CarPlay.

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Intel_Oil@reddit

Thats why i love 201x Cars. Give me Bluetooth to stream Music from my phone and a cigarettelighter to charge it. Thats it for 95% of my uses. Sometimes i need a navigation and thats a mess anyway when i'm in Italy for example, we'll figure it out with roadsigns.

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tablepennywad@reddit

Bottom line all the car companies are flip phones and their software was made for that. Going to smartphone is so hard for them VW burned billions, failed and had to start over again. Seems only Tesla has got it right by hiring all the tech guys from silicon valley. Rivian was smart and pouched a lot of them. Now that Tesla is so big, all the top people have enough to retired/do venture cap, like all the people at Apple. And now everything is just downhill from there.

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nucleartime@reddit

The software was also less of the experience.

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ZannX@reddit

The other problem is that the more you try to do via software, the more opportunity to get it wrong.

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Inconsequentialish@reddit

The thing that makes me crazy is that EVs are potentially DRAMATICALLY simpler and more reliable than ICE vehicles. But NO ONE is leaning into that possibility; they're piling on the pointless untested mechanical, electronic, and software gewgaws. Yes, you need computer control to get the most out of an EV, sure. But all you need is basic software that mostly minds its own damn business and runs the vehicle. The one exception might be the Rivian vans they're making for Amazon (and just starting to trickle out to other fleets). They're all about low TCO, and they're quite simple, with pretty much invisible software. With a focus on low TCO over all, commercial EVs are where we'll finally see some of this potential realized. The Slate and Telo small pickups seem to lean in this direction as well. Although they're still in the "test mule" phase, but it's clear that the focus is on utility and cost (and hopefully durability) and not on $5,000 networked perineum massagers and tail lights that brick the car when they fail.

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xarune@reddit

> But all you need is basic software in a sealed box that mostly minds its own damn business and runs the vehicle. That's basically what my Leaf is. The only gimmick it has it a silly shifter, otherwise it's a Sentra hatch with a EV drivetrain. It's EV specs are pretty meh, but for low $20ks new (after the old tax credit), that's sorta what you get. As others mentioned, to not have crap EV specs it's going to cost a lot more money in battery and people don't want a stripper $50k hatch.

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Inconsequentialish@reddit

The Bolt was much the same. And they killed it, they killed it...

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Team503@reddit

The Bolt and the Volt were killed early, and they could've been such fantastic market forces. If GM had bothered to market them right, they would have been DOMINANT - the Volt especially.

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Inconsequentialish@reddit

They coulda been contenders... GM has a superb talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

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Team503@reddit

They really do.

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anticipat3@reddit

I sold my beloved Leaf a few days ago, but I still think it was an engineering marvel. Reliable, simple to operate, and cheap — it’s the AK47 of EVs.

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xarune@reddit

When the war in Ukraine started, and I was watching news footage, something that stood out to me was just how many Leafs were rolling around in the background. I suppose a wall outlet is all you need to keep them running.

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BlankBB@reddit

Hell the e-Golfs (excluding the SEL models) have analog gauges

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phr3dly@reddit

I loved my leaf for that reason. Just a car that happened to be EV.. It wasn’t trying to be something else, it wasn’t trying to be a supercar, it wasn’t trying to be a self driving taxi cab.

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munche@reddit

This whole wisdom is based on a flawed assumption. The assumption being that mechanical things fail and electronic things fail. Laptops have problems. Phones have problems. TVs have problems. Video Games have problems! Software and electronic problems can be just as crippling as mechanical problems, and everyone just pretends they don't exist. It's great to eliminate some mechanical points of failure but if the computer that runs your whole car crashes guess what? You can't drive your car. And car companies, by and large, are not really good at software! So making the entire vehicle a piece of software means ALL SORTS OF BUGS. Just because you're used to mechanical failures and electronic failures haven't been the primary fail point in cars, doesn't mean electronic and software failures just magically go away. These are incredibly complex systems with hundreds or thousands of failure points.

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roger_enright@reddit

I replace the inrush current limiter, a $3 electronic component, on my pool’s chlorine generator every two years because it fails. The pool guy wanted $800 to replace the whole board. It’s a lot more now. I did some web research and found this is a common failure point. So I bought a dozen ICRs and i solder a new one in every time it fails. Mechanical things fail due to friction, and electrical things fail due to heat. Both can last a long time if friction and heat are properly managed. But if not, either can fail rapidly. There is no substitute for good design in both domains.

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Dats_Russia@reddit

The sad truth is the battery tech is still expensive which means they have to cater to a luxury clientele. I would still agree with you they could keep it simple and still luxurious/futuristic but this is the reality of the matter. It’s the same reason why even entry level trucks feel more comfortable and luxurious than they did 10+ years ago

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ferdiazgonzalez@reddit

Renault 5 caters to Joe, and yet, it's packed with top gadgetry. It feels that this is inherent to the current period of automotive history.

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Intel_Oil@reddit

The Renault 5 is the epidome of EV. Perfect City car, if you're outside the City you don't want an EV anyway.

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Dats_Russia@reddit

I can’t speak to French brands since we don’t have them in the USA. I will take your word for it though

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ferdiazgonzalez@reddit

We have a few budget electric cars around here. The only one that feels a bit more barebones is the MG ZS. But yeah, I have the feeling that even budget ones "need" to pack their cars with tech, or else they come across as uncompetitive.

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Racer20@reddit

Tesla? They constantly get slammed for their simplicity and minimalistic approach.

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FlourCity@reddit

And yet, they've got electronically actuated door handles, a glove box that only opens via a touch screen... Minimalist design doesn't actually mean a simple design.

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

*And yet, they've got electronically actuated door handles, a glove box that only opens via a touch screen...* *Yes, and* if redditors actually stopped the hate train and realized \*they thought of this,\* they would see benefits. I've lived my whole life in an area that gets freezing rain and snow. I have dealt with many, many traditional frozen door handles. You know how Tesla solved this? *You don't even need the door handle to open the door.* You can pop it open with the app. It's actually an improvement in winter.

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FlourCity@reddit

That's an argument for them being a benefit, not that they are simpler.

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didimao0072000@reddit

have you heard of the cyber truck or seen the model x falcon doors?

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Racer20@reddit

Haha, Touche. Model 3 and Y fit the bill though.

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Racer20@reddit

Haha, Touche. Model 3 and Y fit the bill though.

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-MGX-JackieChamp13@reddit

It’s because they achieve minimalism in the cabin by moving everything to the touchscreen, and even door controls are over designed. It’s been years since I sold my 2018 Model 3, but here are the big things I remember: - Flush exterior door handles that ice over in the winter - Electronic interior door handles because they went with frameless windows Controls only in the touchscreen: - Windshield wipers (yes really) - Headlights (thankfully not the high beams) - HVAC - Seat heaters - The air vents - The freaking glovebox needs the touchscreen to open! - Speedometer? Also in the center screen

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Inconsequentialish@reddit

You're confusing the minimalist aesthetic with the mechanical and electronic overcomplications required to make it happen. And a lot of these criticisms have been aimed at the materials you see and touch; people don't like plastic and vinyl when they're paying premium prices. For example, moving EVERYTHING to the center screen. Looks cool, to some people, but it requires complicated software and expensive actuators everywhere. (And of course, every new car is guilty of moving too much into the screen.) Tesla's software is pretty polished, as these things go, but the concept itself is fundamentally flawed. Or consider Tesla's "air slot", or whatever you call it, where you replace dead-simple physical vents and a fan switch with hidden actuators and a screen interface to point the air where you need it and control the fan speed. Silly, expensive, and there's a functional loss to serve an aesthetic no one asked for.

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Styrak@reddit

I have an S and live where it gets +35C and -40C. Never had a problem with door handles.

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aerostatic9000@reddit

> BS EVER left Southern California I think someone else on here called it California engineering or something, popout door handles are such a good example. What was wrong with flush mount pull handles like BMW is doing or ones we've had in the 90s?

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rob_s_458@reddit

I remember several years ago Apple opened a flagship store in Chicago with California engineering with a massive roof overhang that dropped icicles onto the pedestrian walkway

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europeanperson@reddit

Because the money/profit is in upscale products. If you want to persuade someone to buy 75k+ car, it needs to have features, or as you say pointless untested mechanical, electronic, and software gewgaws. Why pay a price for a premium product from a new manufacturer when their competitors can do so much more? You need that nonsense to get people interested. If you go purely on EV is simple with no features, then you’re going into an affordable price race to the bottom with minimal profit that can’t realistically sustain a new manufacturer starting off. It should be noted that the examples you list of Slate and Telo aren’t selling yet, so no clue if their strategy will even be successful.

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mustangfan12@reddit

Yeah its pretty disappointing that Lucid can't get its act together on software. That is going to destroy them if they can't get their act together. It doesn't matter how good the Gravity is if it has serious software issues

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aerostatic9000@reddit

So is it just that Lucid can't pull experienced SWEs or just ones that can work within an automotive environment? They have access to some of the best talent in the world right on their doorstep but somehow only Tesla is the one who actually can pull off great car SW? I've worked in automotive SW for quite some time so I get this shit is complex but I can't imagine it's been this long and they still have these bugs. Is it lack of robust XIL or bench testing? Or do they know about this stuff and just can't figure it out?

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skierpage@reddit

> robust XIL Please expand acronyms when you first use them. "XiL testing, or Everything-in-the-Loop testing, is a method used in the automotive industry to evaluate systems by integrating hardware and software in a simulated environment. It allows for early detection of issues and improves the development process by testing components like software, hardware, and driver interactions before creating physical prototypes." Unless you mean the village and municipality in the Masally Rayon of Azerbaijan.

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BlessedCucumber@reddit

It’s they absolutely suck to work for and previous employees are very vocal about it, and the company is either going dead or private in the next few years. Scares away future hires, and those that do hop on don’t stay long from how awfully things are run among other things. t. worked there, it’s terrible.

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Niyeaux@reddit

> somehow only Tesla is the one who actually can pull off great car SW? every tesla owner on earth complains about the software experience lol

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SpacemanTomX@reddit

I haven’t complained 26K miles in about a little over a year and honestly the only software glitch I remember is Spotify playing ads one day

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Logitech4873@reddit

Yes but the things we complain about are very different from the things a lucid owner would be complaining about.

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Stabmaster@reddit

Love the drive but hate the software. Glad it’s a lease

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Conscious-Food-9828@reddit

I guess it shows my ignorance in it, but I'm amazed at how many electric cars seem to have a myriad of software issues. When you learn about all the hardware required to just make a moder gas car, let alone a hybrid car operate, it's surprising how reliable they are for the most part.

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Hine__@reddit

Depends on the manufacturer I think. These companies that are making cars for the first time seem to have way more issues. I own two EVs, 2023 Cadillac Lyric and a 2024 BMW i4 M50. I will say I had a few minor issues with the Lyriq when I first got it, but a few software updates later and I haven't had any more issues in a long while now. The i4 has been absolutely flawless from day 1.

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Skensis@reddit

Yeah, this seems more like new car manufacturer problems then an EV. The advantage of buying a car from BMW, Toyota, Ford, is that this isn't theid first rodeo, and many of the things we don't even think about have been solved generations ago. A new company is hiring experts to and skilled people, but there is only so much that does and many things will unfortunately need to be figured out all over again.

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Darshadow6@reddit

I would say ford has more problems than new manufacturers same with dodge

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TG690@reddit

It’s all the dumb things they do just to be different for no reason. Instead of the complicated driver profiles, just give me the 3 memory buttons on the door like everyone else for the seat, mirror, and steering wheel settings. Instead of a minimalist key fob, just give me a normal key fob like every other car that works. These companies aren’t really adding any new features that we haven’t been used to in luxury cars for the last decade+, they just find idiotic ways to implement them. So frustrating, especially in the Lucid.

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lee1026@reddit

Phone keys are quite nice.

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A_Downboat_Is_A_Sub@reddit

Give me an electric car that has knobs, switches and buttons for everything, and can be operated without an app or a fob and I'm sold. If you want to be different, why not be different that way?

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

The flip side is, if you lean into it, it's amazing. I haven't touched my HVAC since I bought my car (which has no physical HVAC controls) The auto works great. You say fob, I say, what fob? My phone is my key. I walk up, it's unlocked. I leave, it's locked. I haven't carried keys in years. It's seamless. Love it.

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A_Downboat_Is_A_Sub@reddit

Hard pass. My key will open and start my car. The buttons turn things off and on. If my phone is gone for any reason, or doesn't work, I can get in my car and drive it. Simplicity in the opposite sense.

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

And if my phone is gone, I have a credit card in my wallet that does it. Man it's amazing never carrying keys.

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Intel_Oil@reddit

My phone is 7 years old and has to be charged 3x per day... i'd be anxious for it to be a Key for anything

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HVAvenger@reddit

> Give me an electric car that has knobs, switches and buttons for everything, and can be operated without an app or a fob and I'm sold. I bought a G80e for basically this exact reason.

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agod2486@reddit

What are your thoughts on the G80e so far? It's a great looking car but never found one near me to test drive.

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HVAvenger@reddit

Fantastic, though they are very hard to find. There was only 1 near me and I live in a major city, and I ended up shipping in the spec I wanted from Illinois. Very quickly: Pros: Exterior and Interior looks, materials are all high quality, very minimal piano black plastic, real buttons. This is the exact same as a regular G80, so easy enough to find one of those. Charging is fast, large battery (though not as large as some Tesla / Lucid) Power is there, though the factory tires are terrible and can't handle the torque. The handling feels good, for a 5000 pound full size-sedan. Cost, because of EV depreciation these are a crazy value. Cons: Trunk space is very compromised. The drive mode button is a little bit lame, putting it into sport mode should feel more fun. It is going to cost me a fortune in tires.

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agod2486@reddit

Appreciate the response! Glad to hear it lives up to expectations :)

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Shad0wF0x@reddit

All I want in an electric car is for it to look exactly like my Civic or CX-5 in and out but run on electricity.

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Insanity-Paranoid@reddit

The Chevy Bolt EUV was pretty close to that. The only thing it really needed the display for was adjusting where the air blows from, but aside from that, it had knobs and buttons for everything. Also, most Hybrids, like the current Camry, have knobs and switches for everything, including what's displayed on the driver's display through the steering wheel.

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ShakethatYam@reddit

But these features are making their way to most cars though.

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Weak-Specific-6599@reddit

Most new cars have issues with the tech. Too much tech for no practical reason.

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SarcasticOptimist@reddit

It's probably why smartphone manufacturers are into the business seeing this competency gap. Huawei and Xiaomi for sure can do a better car, and maybe Sony. I'm surprised apple hasn't tried.

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Conscious-Food-9828@reddit

Because tooling and gathering the expertise to mass produce a car that will not have massive margins is a major risk. Xiaomi and Huawei are Chinese which means for one, they belong to the manufacturing powerhouse of the world, and secondly, recieve boatloads of government subsidies. Lastly, they can sell well within their market, while Apple and Sony can't really guarantee anyone would choose their cars over a the existing lineup.

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Bluecolt@reddit

I think about that as well, how mass-manufactured machines (cars) with thousands or individual parts, sensors, etc., are as reliable as they are. Kinda amazing TBH. But then again, we've had 100+ years of experience with 100+ years of incremental advancement to figure it out. When electric cars have been around for 100+ years they better be even more reliable (I realize they've already existed 100+ years, but not at the scale of ICE autos).

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Conscious-Food-9828@reddit

When you realize how many individual components are all working in harmony to harness combustion and propel you forward as well as all the emission requirements it's definitely nuts. Technology connections did a video on how a basic emissions system works and it was mind boggling at how much goes on under the hood. Pun intended I guess.

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Terrh@reddit

I have a model S and have to say the same thing.... The software and it's plethora of issues or unpleasant design choices is the worst part of the car. And Tesla is supposedly "the best"! I'd hate to see what the worst is like.

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UncleBensRacistRice@reddit

Take a Charger Ev for a spin and find out :P

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Terrh@reddit

A spin isn't enough to figure out what is good or bad. Having my model S for a year and I'm still finding things I hate (or love) about the software. Like, for instance, this morning at -10 I learned that for whatever reason they've tied climate control power use to the driveline settings, so when you remote turn on the climate control if the car is set to "range mode" (which you can't adjust remotely), the car just won't warm up inside, even though it's plugged in. It gets warmer than it was before, sure, but even after 30 minutes it was barely above freezing inside.

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ASZD_@reddit

your car is ten years old, when people talk about Tesla software being good, they mean newer cars

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snoo-boop@reddit

My 12 year old Tesla has software from last year.

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Terrh@reddit

Yeah I'm sure they do. Too bad I'm still waiting for features that were promised upon release and it still doesn't have...

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epihocic@reddit

Maybe just sell it and move on? The tech is clearly not for you.

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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit

The issue isn’t the tech The issue is that the tech still isn’t there yet despite being promised Tesla loves treating cars like it’s a $700 laptop

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Wayofthewills23@reddit

Sounds like user error. Why the hell would you buy a car based on some vague "promises?" You should buy based on the features of the car at the present time.

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epihocic@reddit

Which tech was promised?

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gimpwiz@reddit

It'll be ready by June, don't worry.

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Terrh@reddit

"about two weeks" as of mid 2015

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gimpwiz@reddit

"Which two weeks?" "Which June?" ;)

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HeyyyyListennnnnn@reddit

"The best" means most like an iPad, not the best for a car.

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epihocic@reddit

Tesla's for the most part are not designed for race tracks, they're designed for everyday driving and convenience and they're second to none for that.

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lee1026@reddit

When people are talking about infotainment, they are not talking about the track. You got more stuff to worry about when racing.

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Styrak@reddit

I have an S.....been pretty happy with it.

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markyymark13@reddit

"Ship it and fix it later" tech company mindset is going to do so much damage to cars going forward.

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Terrh@reddit

Especially when the "fix it later" part doesn't always happen.

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Stabmaster@reddit

I’m driving a friends Ioniq 5n today. It’s got more menus than I’ve ever seen.

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shiftdown@reddit

Hell of a garage, sir. love it

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SpaceBoJangles@reddit

Lmao. Calling his garage awesome while packing an equally awesome collection. I tip my car-less hat to you both.

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ferdiazgonzalez@reddit

They both indeed have a collection to be jealous of!

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RicardoMoyer@reddit

this is just the spiderman pointing meme with extra steps

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Droopy1592@reddit

Yeah really sure is lol

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idiot_proof@reddit

Says the guy with possibly the best Evo ever...

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brownninja97@reddit

Meanwhile your Corolla could gap my cars even if they fused together into some mega car

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somerandomdude452@reddit

My car starts... Sometimes

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Double_Minimum@reddit

Hey! I am familiar with that problem. I am not familiar with the solution,,,

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RicardoMoyer@reddit

still, it’s no supercar garage! thanks tho :D

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ducation@reddit

It's the [SR-71 Speed Check](https://www.thesr71blackbird.com/Aircraft/Stories/sr-71-blackbird-speed-check-story) story.

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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit

The auto-fellatio of rich people with expensive garages is getting out of hand

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phr3dly@reddit

Holy cow nice collection!

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Eyealt@reddit

I have a Honda CRV

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A_Downboat_Is_A_Sub@reddit

Bonus points if it's year starts with 200

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popsicle_of_meat@reddit

I have a 2005. Table and everything.

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A_Downboat_Is_A_Sub@reddit

The only digital screen on that thing is the odometer. Perfect.

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Eyealt@reddit

It’s a 2011 but it’s street parked so don’t call my garage nice just yet

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thousand56@reddit

My Impreza salutes you

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zisenhart@reddit

Yours is pretty damn nice as well!

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phr3dly@reddit

> 1992 Subaru SVX You win the internet today

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zisenhart@reddit

Thank you! It is such a quirky car and I love it!

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opportunptr@reddit

Sure do

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991guy@reddit

So is yours!

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SpaceBoJangles@reddit

👀

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Patagonia202020@reddit

Real recognizing real

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What_the_8@reddit

Game recognizing game

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untrustableskeptic@reddit

Miata recognize Miata

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UnnamedStaplesDrone@reddit

What are those things hung on his walls?

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n777athan@reddit

LS swapped XJ6 is a fantastic choice.

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shiftdown@reddit

Thanks, brother. It was inherited from my gramps that bought it new

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Gilclunk@reddit

Speaking of which, tell us about the ls swapped xj6. That sounds awesome. Did you do it yourself? What transmission is in it?

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shiftdown@reddit

Yeah it's a home garage build. Theres a bunch of pictures and video in history. I built it before I really knew jack shit about LS swaps. I'd do it almost entirely different now. It's a lm7+4l60

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Spidaaman@reddit

What are the biggest things you’d change?

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shiftdown@reddit

6lt instead of the 5.3 and then absolutely an 8HP trans instead of the miserable 4l60. Then probably a bigger cam than I bought and just a good stock converter

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DavidAg02@reddit

Curious what you like so much about it. I'm shocked at the prices people pay for them, because to me it looks like a car that shouldn't cost more than $50k.

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Stabmaster@reddit

Car rides, steers and accelerates really well. Suspension is world class in comfort and somewhat sporty in the highest mode. It’s also huge inside and seats 5 people easily. Also has over 300 miles of range which is perfect for me. I charge it about every 12 days.

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EngineeringExplained@reddit

100% this haha. Drives great. Software bad. Happy lease.

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Psyclist80@reddit

No Scratches allowed! hope you post a video on that experience when you return it! Love the content BTW, keep er up!

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dietchaos@reddit

If you don't wrap it one color to get rid of the stupid silver roof on day one you are asking for it.

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snoo-boop@reddit

I twitch every time I see that silver roof. And yeah, my dad’s VW bus was two tone.

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Costco__Pizza@reddit

[https://www.reddit.com/r/LUCID/comments/1ofbuen/lucids\_email\_to\_customers\_about\_the\_frustrating/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LUCID/comments/1ofbuen/lucids_email_to_customers_about_the_frustrating/)

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Gatortribe@reddit

It was a tough decision for me but the i5 won just because I trusted BMW to get it right. I've always wondered if that was the right call, and your video offered me reassurance. Really looking forward to a more mature Lucid as I love the engineering behind their products.

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lamemonkeypox@reddit

We considered buying a lucid air to replace our tesla. 5 frustrating minutes digging through the touch screen menus and sub menus... we still drive the old Tesla.

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Dingareth@reddit

Interesting. I just finished the video and I've encountered literally not a single issue he goes on at length about. Grated, I don't use multiple profiles and I actually prefer the inbuilt navigation to Apple CarPlay, but at the risk of jinxing myself before an 800 mile round trip this weekend mine has been bulletproof for the first 5000 miles I've had it.

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Stabmaster@reddit

yeah my continuing issue after 18 months is the app is awful, it works maybe 5% of the time. Carplay mostly works but not always and I've had the sound issue a few times, no sound at all from the car. It drives wonderfully though and i have zero complaints there. Oh and my frunk has never worked, doesn't open.

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wip30ut@reddit

my boss concurs.... it's an expensive work in process. He's glad the firm is subsidizing his lease.

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blr1g@reddit

LOL! He's leasing it??? Ohhhh boy, he's going to be in for a world of hurt at the end of his lease.

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argent_pixel@reddit

Do you drive the Bronco like you killed someone? Because he did. Kill someone, I mean.

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TheWonkiestThing@reddit

Is anyone really happy with car software nowadays?? Just seems like cars are having software glitches that cause major problems regularly.

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TheOneKnownAsMonk@reddit

I have an Audi Q6 e tron. Stupid thing is plagued with software issues. If such a huge company can't figure it out I don't have that much hope for lucid.

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rkhan7862@reddit

like what?

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TheOneKnownAsMonk@reddit

Windows randomly won't go up, lock and unlock system from door handle lags or sometimes doesn't works. Remote app from phone has trouble connecting at times, charging door gets stuck when it's cold, charging stations have communication issues and won't begin charging takes multiple attempts, I get error messages once a week about some random failed system that then resolves itself like regen, front collision prevention.

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rkhan7862@reddit

you going to lemon law it?

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TheOneKnownAsMonk@reddit

Hard to lemon it but fair question. They resolve themselves after turning the car on and off or doing random tricks listed online. I don't have the energy to document all of it and take it to the dealer. Its a lease and I got a good deal on it so if it doesn't become persistent I'm going to deal with it.

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flatpetey@reddit

I was really eyeing a Gravity. The packaging and space is amazing. But this sounds like a nonstarter for me. Sure software is hard. But honestly you are charging over $80K per unit. It should be perfect. And if it isn’t. Open source that shit and get some eyes on it or something. If I was Lucid I’d probably just go all in on CarPlay Ultra and spend all my time on the subsystems and basics instead.

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rkhan7862@reddit

that and probably just license tesla fad

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farrrtttttrrrrrrrrtr@reddit

Him disowning Tesla, raving about the lucid purchase, to now this is… so funny

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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit

He still stands by his statement that the Lucid is the peak of engineering for a vehicle, just that the software is a mess And to his credit, no self respecting adult can own a Tesla after the CEO forces his way into the government and illegally fires your spouse from a federal job

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rkhan7862@reddit

not everyone has the financial means to dump a car that’s pretty affordable maintenance wise just for a moral victory

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SpacemanTomX@reddit

Specially because he could’ve gotten an i4

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Animanganime@reddit

I respect him to NOT blindingly defend his expensive purchase. You know like most people are with their phones, consoles, vehicles etc.

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THE_GR8_MIKE@reddit

All the rich people are here. Then there's the rest of us lol

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Bamboozled74@reddit

To be fair you're probably having a hell of a lot more fun in your shelby than he is in his Lucid.

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SharkBaitDLS@reddit

When I test-drove one, even the model they had for *test drives* had problems on the drive. Cancelled my reservation after that, the car was beautiful, the drivetrain was brilliant, and the packaging offered so much interior space, but I just can’t justify spending that much money on buggy software. The only reason I put up with the Charger is because they were offering dirt-cheap leases, but Lucid wasn’t budging on price.

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meodd8@reddit

When test drove a Rivian the software glitched out on the suspension. It wouldn’t change any longer, and it would pop up errors if I went too fast. I had no idea what setting the suspension was actually at, which is a worry for a big SUV. Kinda ruined some of my enthusiasm

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Meinredditname@reddit

Wait... You went from Lucid to Charger?

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KSoMA@reddit

To be fair there are like 4 full size sedan EVs for sale. Only the EQS, i5, Lucid Air, and Charger come to mind. And the Charger might be the only coupe that isn't a supercar.

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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit

But at that point why not just get an actual Charger?

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SharkBaitDLS@reddit

I have no interest in buying a new gas car. The NSX gives me everything I want on that front. The only ICE vehicles that interest me are orders of magnitude outside of my budget.

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hamzahh219@reddit

Genesis G80 has a full EV option too, pretty solid car imo in terms or range and interior comfort as well as exterior styling after driving one for a week. Not sure how the price compares to these other options though.

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KSoMA@reddit

G80 slipped my mind, another good one

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funnyfarm299@reddit

Except you have to deal with the Genesis dealer network.

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KSoMA@reddit

I'm sure somebody considering Lucid and Dodge isn't too concerned about the quality of Genesis's dealer network.

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ozziegt@reddit

I5 seems like the more sensible choice...

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cubs223425@reddit

As the other guy said, a shrinking car market has created a lot of unlikely comparison points. I want to get a performance sedan, and I've repeatedly gone back and forth on what I'd consider in the past year or so. Do I REALLY want to put $60-70K into something like a CT4-V Blackwing or IS 500? I like them, but I could very well be happy with a used Charger or Chevy SS as well. I want a mid- or full-size sedan with good power, that's it. I can spend up to a luxury brand, but it isn't offering me anything I know that I need, so I'm definitely going to compare them and see if spending $30-50K more for those nicer options is something I really want to do.

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SharkBaitDLS@reddit

Mostly just because of how damn good the lease discount was. They literally cut half the cost of the lease out with incentives. That alone was enough to edge it out over the other options. When the lease ends it’ll probably be replaced with a 718 EV or an Ioniq 6N. I considered the EQS but really the only selling point that car has for me is DrivePilot and outside of Germany it seems all but impossible to get one with it. The i5/i7 both didn’t really land for me in terms of options. Considered a Taycan as well but even though people claim they beat the EPA range I didn’t want to gamble that I could make my usual drives in one.

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theultimatespleen@reddit

Test drove one when I was deciding what to buy next as well. The cruise control refused to engage. The window switches got stuck to the point where it felt like i was almost going to break them to try to roll the windows up. The turn signal indicator on the instrument panel was not in sync with the clicking on/off of the signal light. It just didn’t feel that luxury unfortunately.

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turb0_encapsulator@reddit

my new mantra: software ruins everything.

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Astramael@reddit

This has been the mantra in the software engineering world for decades now.

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turb0_encapsulator@reddit

it seems crazy that the entire software world seems to be okay with the status quo. but I guess when software companies basically rule the world despite having terrible products, there's little incentive to change.

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Animanganime@reddit

Bad software only

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turb0_encapsulator@reddit

nearly all software is bad. if structural engineers built bridges the way software engineers write software, thousands of people would die every day.

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Animanganime@reddit

An example of good software would probably be the one structural engineers use I guess

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roger_enright@reddit

All my cars are pre 2015 because I’m a software engineer and can’t tolerate the garbage software shipping in modern cars.

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nolongerbanned99@reddit

More money than brains. Pay 100K or more and deal with this crap. Just buy a Mercedes or bmw

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KellerMB@reddit

The cupholder taking 9lbs to pull an empty can out sounds extremely annoying. Having that amount of force differential when it finally releases is going to result in spills.

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ulikescience@reddit

Yikes. After all this time Lucid still having these issues is seems real bad for them.

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strongmanass@reddit

The Air came out only four years ago. That's nothing for the very first car from a brand new small volume company. It should be expected that they're still having growing pains. Much more established brands with me robust supply chains have been having similar issues for much longer than Lucid was even a thought in anybody's mind.

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Soporific88@reddit

How much stock are you bag holding ?

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strongmanass@reddit

I don't own any Lucid stock.

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FlourCity@reddit

Rivian and to an extent Tesla kinda poke holes in your argument. Neither of those are perfect, but they look like god-damn miracle workers compared to Lucid when it comes to continual improvement.

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Zappiticas@reddit

I agree with Rivian. Teslas however have continued to get worse, imo. The model S is still the best vehicle they have made and it’s a decade old at this point.

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jabroni4545@reddit

How has tesla gotten worse?

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ThatGuyFromCanadia@reddit

No turn signals, only half a steering wheel, needing to use the screen to change from D to R, I could go on and on and that’s before even touching on the companies political stances

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Logitech4873@reddit

> No turn signals False. Turn signals are mandatory on all cars. > only half a steering wheel It's optional on the S & X, but it's not even an option on the majority of their cars (round only). > needing to use the screen to change from D to R Not really, but it's really effortless anyway. It's silly, but not a problem.

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jabroni4545@reddit

Didn't they bring back the turn stalk? Most teslas have a full steering wheel, after the yoke backlash. There's prndl buttons hidden in the headliner above the rear view mirror.

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ThatGuyFromCanadia@reddit

What about the customers who’s cars don’t have those? Did Tesla do a recall an add those features back?

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Logitech4873@reddit

They knowingly bought the product that way, and can get a retrofit yes. But there's no "recall" for something that does in fact work fine.

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trail-g62Bim@reddit

Those things, while bad, are design choices. This thread is talking about software bugs and manufacturing defects, not conscious choices.

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aliniazi@reddit

Because Reddit said so

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Zappiticas@reddit

Read my second sentence

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strongmanass@reddit

Tesla has been making cars since 2008 and Rivian have their own problems

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FlourCity@reddit

I'm talking about how long it took them to sort out issues with each new model release...

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strongmanass@reddit

Tesla's bumpers are still falling off in the rain and Rivians continue to have their own software problems.

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FlourCity@reddit

Remember when I said neither was perfect? Plus, haven't heard of bumpers falling off in like five years. What Rivian software problems have been consistent for the entire production? Lucid's being a buggy mess have been an issue *the whole time.*

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strongmanass@reddit

Remember when I said neither was perfect? There's "not perfect but still very good," and there's "absolutely embarrassing inability to deal with barely inclement weather." I googled and saw people having recent problems, but it looks like their cars were all made around 2020. Still, that's a problem that shouldn't exist at any stage of a manufacturer's lifetime, let alone that long after Tesla have been around. > What Rivian software problems have been consistent for the entire production? [Last month](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/1p3rlq0/rivian_denying_warranty_coverage_on_software/) > my Rivian started unlocking itself randomly. I would park up somewhere, walk away and lock it using the proximity feature, and 15 minutes or so later I would get a push notification on my phone that the vehicle is unlocked. It would happen randomly, no noticeable pattern. Two months ago > This morning I get in my R1S and all of my Sirius favorites are gone - no history, no favorites, nothing. > things like this happen all the time. The car will forget my contacts. I'll have to reconnect a bluetooth device. It will log out of audio services. The maps will lock up and I can't enter a destination on the screen. Three months ago > Rivian Automotive has issued a recall for 24,214 of its R1T and R1S electric vehicles (EVs), after detecting a software flaw in the hands-free Highway Assist (HWA) system. > The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has stated that all vehicles in the recall are believed to have the defect. New car companies have problems. Tesla, Lucid, Rivian. That's my point.

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FlourCity@reddit

Do you know what "consistent" means?

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Costco__Pizza@reddit

Disagree on both fronts. Go join the Rivian subreddit and you'll see the same complaints you see on the Lucid sub. Tesla has had manufacturing and software bugs for the past 10 years. Maybe their software is better by now but they STILL have panel gap issues, and they had a supposedly massive head start. I think it's mostly just a matter of attention.

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Dats_Russia@reddit

Thankfully they have Saudi money

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hkscfreak@reddit

It's starting to run out

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BrandonNeider@reddit

Although its a major focal point in his video, in all my recent new vehicles I've bought software has always been an issue. Cars are getting too complicated code/software wise without enough testing. 1) My 2023 Model 3 had constant issues with Spotify not working and only way is to just walk away from the car and come back later so it meant most drives, no music or play from my phone. If your going to integrate something, make it work. 2) My 24 Macan has odd software issues where sometimes a phone call will get tied to the music mix so music continues to play during a call so i have to hit stop but then it'll randomly just start playing music again. Then sometimes i just lose audio entirely after a phone call because the car thinks its on a phone call still even though it shows no call going on so i cant play any music through radio/carplay etc. Then also with locking/unlocking the car or trunk. Sometimes it just has severe lag or doesn't respond to hand on handles to lock or unlock, similar to EE's video you shut the passenger door and the car decides to lock without putting your hand firmly on the door so now you hold your hand on the handle to unlock and it takes forever, or it just re-locks the car again. Trunk same thing, sometimes you hit the button on the rear to open, nothing happens sometimes. You have to hit it again, and then sometimes during close it won't do anything, it'll just look at you like your the idiot. Lots of these issues are very hard to replicate at the dealer, and even with it being witnessed it's "Well Porsche doesnt have an answer yet"

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Intel_Oil@reddit

Your second problem is a problem of Bluetooth Code, not Porsche. My Phone did this in three different Cars/brands.

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XCCO@reddit

I have a 2017 Infiniti with these issues and just assumed it was the brand and/or age of the vehicle. I go to unlock my door using the touch capability, but it locks it instead. I try again, and it locks. So, I use the key fob. I'm on a call, but the music is still playing. I also have to periodically delete my phone from the connection memory and add it back because it just refused to connect. I typically do that every few months. I guess I'm glad to know that upgrading my vehicle won't fix any of that. Haha I can scratch that off my list of excuses why I might sell this car and get another.

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Niyeaux@reddit

this is all making me very happy i got the last model year of my car that didn't come with a big touchscreen in the dash

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1988rx7T2@reddit

They fixed the Spotify problem

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Weak-Specific-6599@reddit

I won't even bother watching this one as I am sure it will just regurgitate the same talking points people have had about Lucid since they started production. Great design (except the ugly as hell sloping trunk lines), poor user experience. All the car companies need to fix the software and just let the car be a car. I don't need or want a computer on wheels unless it is free of bugs and gimmicks.

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Team503@reddit

Almost as if it takes more than a few years and a few models for new automakers to get their shit together. Who knew.

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strangway@reddit

I knew it was a clunker after my test drive. All the contact points from the steering wheel outwards felt half-baked.

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IntrepidLecture8405@reddit

The final shot is hilarious

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Kaiathebluenose@reddit

This is why tesla has always been king EV. The software is top notch

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Available_Win5204@reddit

Love the pathetic salty downvotes.

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bontebyuntae@reddit

As much as I despise Elmo, Tesla is just in a class of its own for mass market EVs especially for software/app integration. I can't imagine going back to a daily car without this kind of convenience. My M3P has also been faultless for the 18 months of ownership, which I was skeptical of because of the highland being a refresh model and tesla's reputation for poor QC. Only thing I have noticed are some minor paint nibs from factory that I could care less about. I guess Lucid has to go through the same steps as Tesla did for the past 10 years in refining their production and QC, and ironing out these kinds of bugs.

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natesully33@reddit

Wow, I guess this puts the mildly annoying UX lag in my Lightning into perspective... The Ford app seems to use a lot of battery too, from what I can tell anytime bluetooth is paired it does location periodically to see if you are near the car. There's got to be a smarter way to handle that, at the very least stop querying location when the phone isn't moving from accelerometer data, I'm pretty sure iOS apps can do that. Seems like a whole lot of carmakers are really stumbling through software. As an embedded software engineer, software is hard in a specific way - you need a team of actually talented people with good managers and a whole lot of test/debug/update cycles to really keep quality up. The more you try to do, the longer that's all going to take and unless you have a real good design (unlikely in a new product) you can't just throw more people at it to get it done faster. A whole lot of companies just straight up don't have the culture, schedule, and budget to really be good at any of that. Combine that with the drive to do more and more and more in software, and crank things out faster, and this is the result.

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Firereign@reddit

The _culture_ bit is really important. VW have proven with Cariad that simply throwing money at a software team is _not_ enough to fix the software problems in their cars. (And they’ve thrown a hell of a lot of money at Cariad.)

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Ismelllikekitten@reddit

that's not really true, the VW software is really good now

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

Despite that, they still ask Rivian for help their software, but that's how Rivian gotten money to operate.

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limitz@reddit

Who tf would buy a US EV? Made in USA engineering and manufacturing is absolute dogshit with the exception of Boeing, Tesla, and SpaceX. Maybe Rivian if you're ok with sticker shock... Either Tesla or Chinese EVs only. Lucid is a fucking joke for over 6-figures and will join the rest of the failed US EV companies. When will people learn that the USD is the main export, and the finance/tech industries is what the US has. I'll stick to ChatGPT with Tesla/BYD and DJI.

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KSoMA@reddit

u/SavageGeese u/SavageGooseJack had a few words on stuff like this not too long ago.

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SavageGooseJack@reddit

It’s a tough one tbh. I talked to Jason about his experience at the 911 turbo launch. We had 2 different airs over a year and a half. A early engineering mule and an updated 23/24. Their qc issues and software issues with the air really hurt a overall incredible luxury sedan

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proscriptus@reddit

I believe Lucid just scored deal last on the CR reliability ratings.

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dont_wear_a_C@reddit

I know that Tesla is mentioned quite a bit in this discussion, so I just wanna say that I've had such a good experience with my Model 3. So many of the issues in the video I've never had since owning since June 2024. I know Elon sucks, but man some of the seamlessness and connectivity in our Tesla is great.

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Affalt@reddit

After the insufferable, spiteful tease video flaunting the Lucid referral link, this disappointment video feels justified on multiple levels.

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Alerion_@reddit

Extremely basic stuff that doesn't happen on older cars. It can't simultaneously be the most brilliantly engineered car while also having all these faults. The electronics are a huge part of cars

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LLMprophet@reddit

Reminder: never buy electric cars. Only lease them.

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mr_lab_rat@reddit

Other than one insignificant issue (range being displayed in miles rather than percent) it had nothing to do with the car being EV.

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LLMprophet@reddit

In general it's a far better idea to lease rather than buy an EV. Massive depreciation and long term reliability (battery) are just two huge reasons among many.

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Activehannes@reddit

I sold my tesla at a profit and there is no battery reliability problem? EVs with the new LFP batteries have a lifetime without maintenance of a million km, making the car battery easy the most reliable car part in any car. And even the high power NCM batteries have lifetimes of about 250.000+ km

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Meinredditname@reddit

He was so excited when he first got it. Haven't had a chance to watch it yet, but quite curious what broke the love affair

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SeventhCavalry@reddit

This is very interesting since I've had very little issues with my Air that I purchased back in August 2023. I've never had several of the software glitches and issues he experienced like the infotainment screens blank out and have only had audio glitch (but not disappear entirely) **twice** during my entire ownership, and both times happened when Lucid mentioned it may happen: after Level 2 charging and after a software update. It hasn't happened to me after a software update since though I have heard of others that have continued experiencing it and they fixed the Level 2 charging issue a while back I believe. The only problem that I have currently is Hands-Free Drive Assist deciding to randomly not engage despite all conditions for it engage being met. I think I have a workaround of just soft-resetting the infotainment since the sensors for sure still work, but I'm still doing testing on that front. The issue here is the *inconsistency* of the software problems and glitches that are occuring from vehicle to vehicle. When talking with other owners, I sometimes think to myself that I must be driving a completely different car since I've never experienced an issue like theirs. I'm still rooting for them, but Lucid really needs to do a deep-dive into what is causing the inconsistencies across vehicles and across models for that matter since I hear the Gravity is facing similar issues. And when they do, they need to do themselves a favor and launch the midsize platform with an iterated version of the current software to avoid repeating this, at least as much as possible.

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EngineeringExplained@reddit

This all sounds so lovely. Would you like to swap cars?

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SeventhCavalry@reddit

While you basically have exactly the same configuration that I would of absolutely chosen if there were no financial considerations, I think I'll keep my car with how stable it's been, haha. I'm sorry to hear that you've been having so much trouble with your car though. I do agree with some of design points you brought up regarding things like the profiles and the driver camera being blocked by the steering wheel. While some can't be remedied, I do believe that UX 3.0 (currently in the Gravity) will help alleviate some annoyances whenever they get around to porting it to the Air, though they did mention not everything will understandably make it through. Also, I'm willing to bet that Lucid will be reaching out to you personally if they haven't already - they have tended to do so for owners that make their problems public regardless of who they are or how well they're known.

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localtuned@reddit

Love my ioniq 5n. I don't even notice the software. I have buttons and the screen is always on android auto and it just works. Glad I didn't go with the Lucid. Just put the winter wheels on this morning. Feels great!

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Paper_Street_Soap@reddit

Based on the video, these flaws are a big deal. I’ll never be able to buy a Lucid, but if I did, these issues would be unacceptable. It’s kinda mind blowing how bad they implemented the UI and software.

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guy_incognito784@reddit

Just goes to show that with car reviews or test drives, just driving the car isn’t enough these days to know whether or not you can actually live with the car day to day.

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disciple31@reddit

really sad video to see. i really like these cars, but the amount of bugginess here isnt something i want to put up with. this far along im not sure why theyre still having these sort of troubles

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Jackloco@reddit

I had one for review for two weeks in Utah. Quite literally the perfect highways to get every pro out of the car. Key refused to work a lot and the front strut snapped because it was a plastic piece. Coming from cars half the price the ride was pretty bad. Gd what a pain in the ass the lucid air touring was.

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JGard18@reddit

I’ve had a few issues with the software in my Air, but nothing that has prevented me from driving or enjoying it. I’m 14 months into this car and I can’t think of a single vehicle I would rather have

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numbersev@reddit

This is the problem with car review and reviewers in general (a point he makes at the beginning about how he liked the test drives but it's a different story when owning it).

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