Is it me or was early '90s more bluntly political than modern music?
Posted by EvenLettuce6638@reddit | Xennials | View on Reddit | 65 comments
I mean, it's Public Enemy, but I'm not aware of any mainstream music this overtly political or socially conscious.
sthef2020@reddit
This is my pet conspiracy theory.
About 1993 rap completely transforms from De La Soul, Public Enemy, Arrested Development, and the "concious rap" movement, into the gangsta rap, East Coast/West Coast era that we would eventually go on to associate the 90s so closely with.
Even Ice Cube, who for his first 3 solo albums is messily navigating the post-NWA world, talking about the LA riots, buying into conspiracy theories, and calling out white supremacist politicians, completely switches it up and enters his "We Be Clubbin'" era.
Feels like it was a deliberate move in the wake of Rodney King, the LA riots, and the OJ Simpson trial, by the record industry to minimize radical voices, and tack rap more towards (as would later be mocked in an Eminem skit) "big screen TVs, 40s, blunts, and bitches".
That's not to say it disapeared entirely. 2pac's too short catalog is very political. But the writing was on the wall. Radio wanted "I get money" dance anthems, and professional wrestling style beef between rappers. And Arrested Development inviting listeners to "walk the roads my forefathers walked, and climb the trees my forefathers hung from" wasn't going to cut it.
rolL_uP_one_more@reddit
This is real, and it coincides with the government flooding the streets with crack. White politicians and music executives absolutely knew the power of music and wanted to steer hip hop away from social commentary and toward glamorizing crime and buying over priced luxury brands.
HumansMustBeCrazy@reddit
I think people over think why popular music tends to be bland and shallow minded.
It's because that's what most people want to hear. They don't want to think about deep thoughts and be challenged in their beliefs. They just want a simple little song that maybe has a part that resembles some part of their life.
It's not a conspiracy.
nonexistentnight@reddit
There's a great line from a Simon Cowell interview along these lines: "Most people just want to listen to a nice boy sing nice songs."
Tribe303@reddit
This is not a rare belief. American record labels pushed hip-hop into Gangsta Rap in the 90s to make Black folks look bad, like they were all thugs. Mission accomplished!
red286@reddit
They did that because it sold CDs to suburban white kids.
Never for a moment doubt why corporations do what they do. It's always about making money. Making the Black community look like criminals and thugs (despite 90% of gangsta rappers being cleaner than a Church choir) was just a side bonus to them.
They learned later that what really sold was the illusion of wealth, which is where you get Diddy and all the glam and flash hip hop that's basically continued on in some form to this day.
scormegatron@reddit
It's not a conspiracy theory -- it's the Diddy-ification of hip-hop.
Tribe, De La, etc were amazing artists -- but they didn't have a sound that penetrated mainstream radio. West Coast had the same thing going on with backpack rap -- Heiro, Pharcyde, etc. Yeah, they were on YO! MTV Raps, the Box, Rap City, etc -- but they weren't getting requested on the radio in they flyover states.
Diddy figured out how to go platinum (blending rap with pop/r&b a la Juicy with Total on the hook), getting the entire country vibing to pop-rap -- then started rinsing and repeating.
Once Diddy found the formula for charting platinum radio pop-rap (around 1993), most of the industry started following his lead and chasing his sound.
Even Nas got caught up in it -- just compare his first and second albums to see when shit fell apart...
So it's not a conspiracy in the sense of some behind the scenes puppeteers choosing what to promote. It's just an industry shift where Diddy figured out how to bring rap mainstream -- and all the artists/labels started chasing the trend.
anansi52@reddit
diddy didn't find any formula. he got that heavy sampling from imitating the west coast. g thang by dre and good day by ice cube blew up before anyone even heard of diddy. diddy was just jumping on the bandwagon. the only new thing he brought was being a producer and jumping in all of his artists projects for no reason. nobody was following diddy.
scormegatron@reddit
Everyone was sampling, that wasn't some g-funk formula. Sampling was a core part of hip hop going back to Sugarhill Gang, Marley Marl, etc.
I said he figured out the formula for going platinum over and over and over again.
If you don't think Nas was following Diddy's formula on his second, third, etc albums -- either you weren't paying attention, or you're in denial.
His manager Steve Stout speaks the facts:
Bro literally copied the Juicy formula.
Psychological-Cry221@reddit
It was because they were not as sophisticated in their music taste, I always thought. Even today if I went to the Midwest I would expect to experience only the most mainstream culture. Chain restaurants and stores, etc.
Psychological-Cry221@reddit
Lol, apparently they went from political statements to killing cops. I don’t think that any politician was manipulating what was being sung or discussed.
anansi52@reddit
wise intelligent had a good clip explaining this at a conference on hip hop. he said basically the same thing as you about the la riots and how there was a deliberate content switch.
Wise Intelligent of Poor Righteous Teachers
discountErasmus@reddit
See, I don't buy it because the decline in political music coincides with major labels and the music industry in general tanking. Bands today aren't getting paid anyway, what do they care what Atlantic Records thinks? What money they get, they make from touring and merch.
Bahariasaurus@reddit
If you like political rap, check out Mr Lif. He stopped performing like a decade ago I think, but he has written some good shit.
coopnjaxdad@reddit
They just won't let us hear that type of music in our everyday lives. It is out there but you need to seek it out.
lemonheadlock@reddit
Also, RATM hit it big in particular, but the whole hardcore/punk/riot grrrl scenes have always been overtly political, going back through the 80s, into the 70s.
rawonionbreath@reddit
Nothing reaching the mainstream, or even the edges of the mainstream, is that political, though. The last thing I honestly remember is the Childish Gambino song from a few years ago and even that was a while ago..
lemonheadlock@reddit
You don't think RATM was mainstream?
rawonionbreath@reddit
I’m talking about nowadays. Yes they were mainstream back in the 90s and early 2000s. Bands or artists rarely get that in-your-face political anymore.
bluemitersaw@reddit
Eh. I think the issue there is "mainstream". Mainstream doesn't really exist like it used to. With all music at our finger tips most of this cultural stuff has become very fragmented. We no longer live in a mono-culture, so very few artists are able to break through and take anything mainstream.
Deep-Interest9947@reddit
I think it was for 14-22 year old but adults weren’t listening to RATM.
SumpCrab@reddit
No, but adults were listening to Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Marven Gaye, James Brown, John Lennon, U2... hell, even Micheal Jackson was writing songs about race, feeding the hungry, and world peace.
Political songs have a long history of being mainstream for adults as much as for young people.
DBE113301@reddit
Very true, but the majority of the adults listening to Springsteen misunderstood the themes that influenced his lyrics. Didn't Reagan play Born in the U.S.A. at his campaign rallies? I mean whoosh. Completely over his head.
SumpCrab@reddit
Yeah, same can be said about Rage Against the Machine. Seems that many think it's good gym music and never look beyond the surface. A lot of people see what they want to see.
TripleDigit@reddit
Half the people in the 14-22 age range are adults, Ding Dong.
emptybeetoo@reddit
Rich Men North of Richmond is about as bluntly political as it gets, and it hit number one on the Billboard 100 in August 2024.
aRealPanaphonics@reddit
His success was closer to Tom MacDonald’s than a Bob Dylan or Springsteen.
Part of his success and his decline was the embrace of him by the right wing ecosystem.
NoAnnual3259@reddit
And that that dude disappeared to go eat fudge rounds.
edasto42@reddit
Idk, listening to Kendrick (especially that halftime show) can stand 10 toes down for a lot of political involvement.
Beyoncé is also very political.
Also go check out Macklemore’s (yes that Macklemore) song Fucked Up that came out earlier this year.
But also Hozier, Janelle Monea, Pussy Riot, Bob Vylan, Demi Lovato’s song ‘Commander in Chief,’ Pink has some political songs, Run the Jewels, War on Women, JPEGMAFIA, Idles, Bad Bunny and many more.
The music scene now is so much more fractured, and without monoculture it’s hard to see some of it.
ttttunos@reddit
It's because 'picking a side' cuts your audience in half and that means less money for the record companies.
Tribe303@reddit
Yes but companies weren't interested in selling products to racists and fascists, unlike today.
ttttunos@reddit
Like modern country music? That's a straight up psyop and I'm pretty sure making money isn't the top priority.
Tribe303@reddit
Country music went Right Wing during the Bush war on terror and has remained there IMHO.
DotNervous7513@reddit
Run the Jewels is carrying that torch these days. They did a song with Zach from RatM called Kill your Masters, pretty heavily political. But all their music is highly socially conscious and overtly political.
Psychological-Cry221@reddit
“Kill your masters” sounds super socially conscious.
Combatical@reddit
👉🤛
scormegatron@reddit
Vince Staples & Kendrick dip their toes in political topics here and there too.
Psychological-Cry221@reddit
I never picked up on political messaging in movies or music until after 2010. When I revisit things I enjoyed from that era I can pick up on it better, but I was oblivious at the time. It was a special time in my life.
BadConscious1358@reddit
Public Enemy radicalized me. I haven't trusted a white man since the early 90's. And these are the guys the CIA wanted peddling drugs to inner city youth.
Tribe303@reddit
I was a dorky white goth/punk/industrial guy in the late 80's, and the alternative clubs played Public Enemy all the time. They radicalized us as well! You have more allies in places you are unaware of, than you think. I still go out of my way to listen to what Chuck D has to say.
On a related note, I used to wonder why there were not very many black people in the punk/alt scene, cuz y'all have more than enough to be angry about, but then I grew up and realized black people, especially men, just cannot get angry in public. The cops would show up on and shoot them FFS. It was my white privilege that allowed me to rant about 'smashing the system' without getting beat up by the cops, or worse.
aRealPanaphonics@reddit
You can’t really have a counterculture anymore when nobody agrees on what’s mainstream.
I think the death of monoculture/mainstream has been the biggest change on so many of us, that we haven’t even realized it yet
blacksapphire08@reddit
Music like this is still out there, just not mainstream like it used to be.
Leucippus1@reddit
Shit, I thought we were all 'WOKE' now.
C001H4ndPuk3@reddit
I was just asking my family at Thanksgiving why we don't have any good protest music yet. Feels like we could use it about now. I told the Gen Z present that I hold them directly responsible for creating some.
For context, The Clash came on my SIL's playlist, which prompted the convo.
therealpopkiller@reddit
You should listen to Jesse Welles
buttery_orc@reddit
I second this. Also: Bob Vylan (no, not a typo, British Punk, very political) and Dead Pioneers.
Shaxxs0therHorn@reddit
There was money in selling out around 95 after the pac biggie wc/ec feude - krs one and conscious hip hop wasn’t as commercially profitable as cash money millionaires / wu tang / busta rhymes / missy elliot rap that was about the flaunt.
Survivor bias shows us conscious hip hop ‘faded’ from the main stream. But acts like coast contra and tons of ‘backpacker’ hip hop in the early aughts kept that scene going even if it was commercially mainstream.
BadassSasquatch@reddit
Because we had something to say then? I dunno. I feel like all forms of entertainment have become too sanitized these days. Maybe I should rap about that?
black_flag_4ever@reddit
Clear Channel started buying up every radio station in the 90s. They intentionally neutered radio to appeal to advertisers worried about their image. That’s your answer.
Illustrious-Low3948@reddit
Definitely. Ice Cube got famous from straight up rapping *Fuck the police* instead of dog whistles like "ACAB"
catsoncrack420@reddit
Wait til you hear the X Clan. I'm Afro Latino , Dominican and as kid loved that shiit, knowing full well of course my grandmother was a blonde woman with hazel eyes and both my grandfathers black. Immigrant kid, I didn't understand the " black struggle " until I was in my teens maybe reading. All I knew was America was rich but backwards. God damn Puritanos.
DariosDentist@reddit
to the east my brother to the east
JeffTheAndroid@reddit
Now that we're in the age of self publishing and every screen being capable of turning into an entire recording studio... Nobody has anything to say
If that doesn't tell you things suck, I don't know what does.
Twanlx2000@reddit
It’s almost as if the difficulty of being “discovered” was a motivator in refining one’s craft and message.
We could argue that the best stuff was happening underground among those who hadn’t sold out. But even while not being discovered, it wasn’t like they weren’t actively trying to increase their audience and opportunity.
JWWBurger@reddit
For sure. Hell, go check out country music from the decades before the 90s, very political with a lot of liberal messaging. Crazy how everything has changed.
CyHawkWRNL@reddit
9/11 was the day country dropped it's outlaw roots and started lickin boots
RevolutionEasy714@reddit
It not crazy, it’s manufactured.
207Menace@reddit
Not crazy even our parents music was more political censorship will do that.
Matt-J-McCormack@reddit
I know it’s that age old meme of people thinking the new music is worse….
But our sub generation saw music from the late 90’s probably before… get more and more algorithm based. Maybe they didn’t call it algorithms probably formula… but the big executives knew what beats (no pun intended) a track needed to score big. The result was the collective timbre of mainstream music became a much smaller bandwidth. Heck , you can track global smash hits to a relatively small pool of writers.
Good music still existed and still does. But that section we would label ‘pop culture’ is arguably… maybe worse is the wrong word. but definitely more bland.
IpeeInclosets@reddit
It's interesting that the era of rock and roll ended with hedonism as well. Hm.
marmot1101@reddit
Music is just more fragmented in general. There are still overtly political artists. Hell, PE is still putting out new music but it just doesn't rise to a huge audience. But you have to look a bit harder now, and it's easier to stumble across new bands when you're young and in school still.
Moxie_Stardust@reddit
What "mainstream" even means and how things get there have changed a lot since then.
drwebb@reddit
Damn, that's young Chuck D. Maybe a bit later, you got big hits I mean there was Dead Prez, RATM of course... so many more great hardcore rap groups from that era, Cannibal Ox, CunningLinguists, MosDef, Immortal Technique, Jedi Mind Tricks . I'm just a white kid from Iowa, but I can't listen to this modern ear candy.
metalyger@reddit
I'd say it was launching off the mid to late 80s, like the Dead Kennedys really paved the way for very aggressively political lyrics, Jello Biafra went after everyone and took no sides.
WalterWriter@reddit
I strongly suspect this is survivorship bias combined with the overall fragmentation of pop/music culture. The sorts of bands/musicians/groups that made more political music were probably also those that were doing interesting/groundbreaking things musically. Just that they WERE doing political things may have been noteworthy. Combine that with the fact that there are WAY more subcultures that are way easier to find now than in the 90s, so the mainstream is diluted and sort of left to "boring."
I mean, at approximately the same time as Public Enemy, we had Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer, and Wreck N Effect (or whatever) talking about all I wanna do is a zooma zoom zoom and a boom boom.