From 94% of Supercomputers to 72% of Phones: Linux’s Global Domination Explained

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servernode@reddit

Pyrrhic victory when phones are absolutely not an open computing platform

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kalzEOS@reddit

Android is as Linux as a Toyota car that has everything Toyota except the engine. A Chevy engine or some shit like that, and even that is modified.

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Tomi97_origin@reddit

Android is Linux. That's just technical fact.

Linux is the Kernal. And everything that uses the Linux Kernel is Linux.

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That’s simply wrong. Using the Linux kernel doesn’t automatically make something a Linux system. Android uses the Linux kernel, but its userland, runtime, APIs, and ecosystem are completely different from a traditional Linux distribution.

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the_abortionat0r@reddit

Bro the Linux kernel is the ONLY thing that makes a Linux system a Linux system. Stop huffing pant.

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kalzEOS@reddit

What's huffing pant?

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lusuroculadestec@reddit

By that logic, you could argue that Alpine Linux isn't Linux or even a completely locked down installation based on Debian specifically to run as a kiosk front-end for an embedded device wouldn't meet your definition of Linux.

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Tomi97_origin@reddit

Well you are just technically wrong.

Linux is just the kernel. Not the whole OS, not the userland, not the ecosystem.

You are arguing that Android is not GNU/Linux. Which would be correct.

GNU is separate project from Linux kernel, but that's where a lot of the userland tools found in most distributions comes from.

Android is Linux. But it's not a GNU/Linux as it does not contain most of GNU userland tools.

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Mooks79@reddit

Android use the Linux kernel (= engine, in your analogy).

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kalzEOS@reddit

That's exactly what I meant. Was I not clear enough? Genuinely asking, as English is actually my second language and I could very well be saying some nonsense. Lmao.

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Mooks79@reddit

Yeah it sounds like you’re saying Android isn’t Linux because it doesn’t have the Linux kernel = (Toyota with everything Toyota except the engine).

Maybe a better analogy would be Android is as Linux as Aston’s new Martin is Mercedes; everything non-Mercedes except the engine.

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kalzEOS@reddit

Lol. I meant that android only uses the Linux kernel, and even that has some modifications. Android uses the Linux kernel (with Google’s own patches). Everything above the kernel is different, no GNU userspace, no glibc, no typical Linux distro stuff. Also, Android apps run on ART (Android Runtime), not ELF binaries like on desktop Linux. The system uses its own init, its own permissions model, its own drivers, etc. So, Android = Linux kernel + Google’s Android stack (not a traditional Linux distro).

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Mooks79@reddit

Exactly, and (new) Aston Martins = Mercedes engine + Aston Martin other stuff.

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funforgiven@reddit

Aston Martins = Mercedes Engine + Aston Martin other stuff. Toyota = Chevy Engine + Toyota other stuff

You just swapped the companies. How is that a different analogy? Are you picking sides with car brands here?

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funforgiven@reddit

That is the same analogy?

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Mooks79@reddit

It’s the opposite analogy.

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funforgiven@reddit

Can you please explain how is it oppsoite?

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funforgiven@reddit

It is the same thing?

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Mooks79@reddit

That’s exactly my point; the analogy is the wrong way around. Hence my offering of an alternative.

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FortuneIIIPick@reddit

According to Gemini, that would be...Google Gemini...Android is a Linux Distribution, a custom one, not a traditional one, but one nevertheless.

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CameramanNick@reddit

Android is not Linux in the same way that Ubuntu is Linux.

A lot of people gloss over this, and it's not really fair or accurate.

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the_abortionat0r@reddit

Nobody is glossing over it, there is literally a copy pasta meme about the Linux kernel that makes this clear.

Linux is the kernel, everyone knows this. Android is factually Linux.

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Thickchesthair@reddit

Serious question: Why is it that Android uses what is essentially the Linux kernel, yet no one else can figure out how to make an open source smartphone OS that works anywhere nearly as well?

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sjphilsphan@reddit

The issue is apps. If it doesn't support apks it's dead on arrival

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p0358@reddit

It can with Waydroid just about fine, that’s not actually a big problem

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DHermit@reddit

It is actually a problem if you want all features (reliable notifications, many apps need play services, system integration for stuff like media controls, background services, calls, picture in picture mode, and many other things).

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lusuroculadestec@reddit

Google spends the money and time getting Android and AOSP to where it needs to be. If you hired a few thousand developers and put a few billion dollars into an alternative smartphone OS, it would end up being good.

Even if it's good, consumers aren't going to give a shit if it doesn't have the needed application support. There have been a few non-Android non-AOSP operating systems over time. They all probably would be perfectly fine as nothing more than a phone and web browser.

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Mooks79@reddit

GrapheneOS is exactly that.

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Preisschild@reddit

Yeah +1 for GrapheneOS. Definitely one of my favorite linux distros :)

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p0358@reddit

They didn’t ask why can’t anyone figure out an Android that works like an Android

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Mooks79@reddit

They asked:

Serious question: Why is it that Android uses what is essentially the Linux kernel, yet no one else can figure out how to make an open source smartphone OS that works anywhere nearly as well?

An open source smartphone OS that works anywhere near as well as vendor Android is … GrapheneOS.

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p0358@reddit

I think there’s a pretty obvious implication they mean a non-Android OS on Linux kernel, Graphene and any other so-called “custom ROM” are still Android, so it doesn’t make sense to bring them up here (though it’s somewhat telling that those already don’t work as well as vendor Android)

It’s as if someone asked that if coffee is so good, why didn’t anyone figure out another beverage that also has caffeine, and you said that coffee without sugar is the answer, even though they didn’t even clarify they meant coffee with sugar specifically to begin with

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Mooks79@reddit

I think there’s a pretty obvious implication they mean a non-Android OS on Linux kernel,

Tell me you didn’t read all my original comment without telling me you didn’t read all my original comment.

Graphene and any other so-called “custom ROM” are still Android, so it doesn’t make sense to bring them up here (though it’s somewhat telling that those already don’t work as well as vendor Android)

They do, however, fit the requirement of open source and working nearly as well as vendor Android.

It’s as if someone asked that if coffee is so good, why didn’t anyone figure out another beverage that also has caffeine, and you said that coffee without sugar is the answer, even though they didn’t even clarify they meant coffee with sugar specifically to begin with

It’s not at all like that.

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ThenExtension9196@reddit

Patents.

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lightmatter501@reddit

Vendors close down a lot of things.

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hkric41six@reddit

This is orders of magnitudes more true for ARM land than x86 too..

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ilep@reddit

The kernel that vendors actually ship usually has some drivers on top of what is actually the "standard" Android kernel. There has been changes on this towards "Generic Kernel Image" (GKI) so that kernel would be more generic.

However, ARM-land is not as simple as just that. The chips can have more customization and non-standard ways than what is seen in PC-land. Systems (smartphones) can use devicetree-information to describe the hardware instead of "auto-discovery" like with APIC/UEFI since the integrated components can be much much limited to save on silicon space and energy usage.

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DeVinke_@reddit

I can't comprehend how people get mainline even remotely close to booting on smartphones. I make a small change and the kernel is just undebuggably fucked. Thanks, arm.

By the way, the exynos 2400 is not entirely GKI. It literally just doesn't boot with a GKI. So it's basically just like a non-GKI device but with extra partitions, external modules and an unnecessarily long build time :/

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roiki11@reddit

Because it takes money and development time(which costs money) and most don't have that?

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DioEgizio@reddit

they already exist but they're all aosp forks (see graoheneos, lineageos etc)

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cornmonger_@reddit

arguably, android's initial success in that area was due to the open handset alliance, which standardized hardware support among other things.

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SiegeRewards@reddit

Maybe that’s why they’re so rich

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AgainstScum@reddit

Android is not "Linux", it's an appropriation by Giant Corpo that couldn't care less for Free Software Movement. Free Software user should not glazing over Android for using Linux, in my opinion.

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SirGlass@reddit

Google has made plenty of contributions to the Linux kernel that benefits everyone that uses it.

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inemsn@reddit

This is not the same as saying Google supports FLOSS in the slightest or that android is at all acceptable.

Even Microsoft has made plenty of contributions and done things that benefit everyone: That doesn't make microsoft a friend of FLOSS by any means. These corporations only do it out of interest, and it's also in their interest to kill FLOSS.

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themusicalduck@reddit

I'd doubt that anyone contributing to Linux is doing it selflessly nowadays. The whole collaboration effort is to make it work for whatever purpose they happen to be pushing.

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inemsn@reddit

What you're describing isn't necessarily selfish. The whole point of free software is that you should be able to tinker around and modify a program however you please: And yeah, presumably, that'll be for your specific purpose.

But that's still selfless in its own way. You took something, improved it for your use case, and share that improvement back with everyone else. Everyone wins: You most of all, but still, everyone.

Corporations like google and microsoft contribute to linux and everyone wins, yes: But let's not forget, corporations' contributions aren't a sign that they want linux to prosper or a sign of respect for the FLOSS community, because the same interests that drive corporations to contribute to linux also drive it to want to kill FLOSS entirely.

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dj_is_here@reddit

If they don't care for free software movement then why are they one of the largest donors of Linux foundations & why are software engineers of these "giant corpos" making the most contribution to open source s/w on github. Sure they are for-profit organisations that more often than not care more about making investors happy than customers, but like it or not "free software movement" is not free & needs contributions from giant corpos as well to continue. Not recognising it is just pushing hate for no reason.

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AgainstScum@reddit

That's exactly why they fund Linux, for people like you to think they're benevolent enough that they're existence can be justified, this is not a shade thrown at you.

Google generated billions and giving crumbs for Linux kernel developer.

I am both criticizing Google and Linux community at large that made us think Corporate donation is a necessity because much of the community expect Free Labor instead of donating.

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Tomi97_origin@reddit

That's exactly why they fund Linux, for people like you to think they're benevolent enough that they're existence can be justified, this is not a shade thrown at you.

Nah, they fund Linux, because it's beneficial for them and cheaper than developing proprietary alternative.

That's it. It has very little to do with marketing or looking good.

It's all about ensuring they have hand on the wheel directing the future development of software they themselves rely on.

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cgoldberg@reddit

Linux is successful because corporate giants (and everyone else) contributed for their own self interest. If you actually think Linux is just a grass roots non-corporate thing driven by benevolent individuals for the sake of humanity, you are very very mistaken.

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webguynd@reddit

Android is definitely Linux. It’s just not GNU/Linux. The Android common kernel is now branched from mainline, and Google usually upstreams its patches.

The rest, you are correct on. Google is not the good guy.

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SiegeRewards@reddit

Android is Linux Kernel with some additions

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HurasmusBDraggin@reddit

More like "a hell of a lotta" additions, many are much needed for the mobile space.

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DioEgizio@reddit

why do people still think this? android kernel is just a few patches over linux lts

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Careless_Bank_7891@reddit

Google never cared about linux, it was just an easy way of reducing their work, if they did care about it, they would've used their dominance to push for more open OS, a lot of android additions could've been part of the kernel if not for the proprietary blobs

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cgoldberg@reddit

It's quite literally mainline Linux with some patches on top. Every distro also patches Linux.

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jashAcharjee@reddit

Woah woah 94%? Hold up! Its more like 100%. I have never seen a server thats not running linux , I do know certain servers used to run Microsoft Server OS, but these were decommissioned long back. Heck even MS used Linux on Azure platform.

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asm_lover@reddit

Calling android linux is charitable honestly.
Though the situation may change in the future with how. You never know

For those that don't know

Linux Kernel -> Linux LTS -> Android Common Kernel(Google) -> SoC vendor kernel(Qualcomm/Mediatek) -> OEM kernel

The kernels you get on your phone are so far removed from upstream that even if they are opensource upstreaming the code is a pain.

I kind of expect the situation to change with qualcomm for two reasons:
- They are getting into the laptop space and OEMs are interested in Linux ARM laptops(apparently dell, and dell actually upstreams code)
- Steam Frame, if your next phone has a Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 it will probably be the best supported phone ever on linux.
- I have noticed with gen Z at least there's a push for privacy and detoxing (which the default android experience from your OEM sucks at)

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DioEgizio@reddit

this is not really what happens here anymore, it's more like:

Linux LTS -> Generic Kernel Image (Google) -> vendors add drivers as modules

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natguy2016@reddit

Microsoft screwed the pooch in the phone space. More and more people just use a phone or tablet. Microsoft is scared because they are in a position where they can’t win.

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HurasmusBDraggin@reddit

Some could very well argue Android ain't Linux as we would like it to be. Even a stretch in 2025.

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DioEgizio@reddit

android absolutely is linux

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Preisschild@reddit

Yep. Unfortunately there are lots of purists / gatekeeping "iTs gNu/LiNuX" folks here...

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dude_349@reddit

You people just confuse terms. A Linux distribution is an operating system that has the Linux kernel (patched or modified to some extent) as a, well, its kernel. What you're referring to is likely something related to FOSS-systems with FOSS ethos.

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afeverr@reddit

Agreed. They're conflating Linux with free software. Android is open-source, but it's not very free/libre since there's so much lockdown and interference by Google. Android not following the ideals of free software doesn't make it no longer a Linux distribution.

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