Hagerty | Czinger 21C: the 3D printed hypercar factory tour and drive | Capturing Car Culture w/ Larry Chen [1:21:47]

Posted by lostboyz@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 25 comments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te3FMxRnioo It's a long episode on the inside process of what Czinger is and what they do. It's really cool to see what niches these ultra high end companies are trying to carve out for themselves. Czinger is really leaning into 3d printed metal components which makes for some truly unique subframe, suspension, and other vehicle components. Whether that turns into performance or sales, who cares, it looks super cool.

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25 Comments

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tresbizarre@reddit

Stl?

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Consistent-Throat130@reddit

3d printing is a metallurgically shitty approach. You either get sintering, which inherently limits part strength, or you get 3d printed molds - cast parts are generally inferior to forged ones. I'm all for using lots of computing to optimize the fuck out of your designs. But 3d printing auto parts? I'd say that's just mining the hype

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megacookie@reddit

If the goal is strength and toughness above all else, you can't really beat forging. Casting is good enough for most applications, allows more complex geometry, and is much cheaper in mass production, but the strength per unit volume of cast material is lower and the chance of defects is higher so more material ends up needing to be used to compensate. 3D printing via sintering can have superior mechanical properties to castings (at least in terms of tensile strength, weaker in compression). Accuracy and surface finish is generally superior to castings too, and there aren't the usual geometry limitations in mold design such as draft angle and cooling/flow rates. The ability to make absolutely any shape is huge for strength to weight though, since when paired with topology optimization it eliminates material in any areas it's not needed for strength. An equivalent forged piece may be more durable and stronger overall, but it's probably far stronger and heavier than it really needs to be for certain specific applications.

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Consistent-Throat130@reddit

Better-than-cast performance is better than I was expecting, I'll admit... But I'm also hearing that a forged part can be lighter and stronger, basically every time - and through use of less material. So I guess the range is "where cast strength would be adequate", but we want rapid prototyping over peak material performance.

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megacookie@reddit

Powder metallurgy with sintering (either the traditional way or 3D printed/SLS) can allow for finer control of the microstructure than casting, but its overall strength depends on what density can be achieved. Apparently a density of 95% or higher is comparable to forging, but below 90% it's weaker than casting. If complex geometry is required, it makes a lot of sense for connecting load paths with the least excess material possible. But forging would be superior for parts like pistons and con rods in an engine, where the geometry is simpler but there can be extreme cyclic forces.

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holzmann_dc@reddit

Lukas Czinger - whom I find to be very competent and confident in the Hagerty video - should do an AMA with engineers here. Totally geek out.

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Consistent-Throat130@reddit

I would genuinely enjoy hearing him explain

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lostboyz@reddit (OP)

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert or even informed, but they way they explain it they imply their reaching near forged level of performance. Their parent company owns the process and alloys and has a lot of other business making highly niche parts so it's not just an aesthetic thing. I'm not sold, but I'm curious. From the business end it's interesting as they talk about not needing to create big batches of replacement parts if you can just print whatever you need as you need it. That's all assuming they're still in business and supporting that going forward.

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Consistent-Throat130@reddit

The reason the parts perform well is the shape, primarily. That's the advantage of additive manufacturing - making weird-ass shapes that aren't easy to make by conventional means.

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SFWarriorsfan@reddit

Saw this car in person in Hillsborough, CA last week. What a beastie.

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GoldenState15@reddit

Incoming comments whining about hypercars

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lostboyz@reddit (OP)

I think this one should be interesting even for those types of people. Czinger is doing some really interesting things. I have no interest in owning one or even a poster of one, but I'm geeking out over their design and manufacturing process.

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

I'm over hypercars because the horsepower wars have just made me numb, but the line stops at Czinger. Their technology is amazing and they develop parts for military contractors as well as other manufacturers. It's like Rimac and their electric motors. They're doing some awesome stuff. That's pretty cool. Is it just another multi-million dollar hypercar? Yes. But like the Chiron, it's actually something to be excited for.

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threeinacorner@reddit

Wait what does Rimac do with their motors? I know Lucid are doing some cool stuff, but Rimac?

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

They license their technology to other manufacturers. Many, many high end supercars use their technology.

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threeinacorner@reddit

I am familiar with that. But I don't think they're doing anything remarkable in the field of motor design / motor control.

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Nefilim314@reddit

DAE not interested in hypercars?

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GoldenState15@reddit

What does that mean

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YellowFogLights@reddit

“Does anyone else” not interested in hypercars? Which is one hell of a grammatical mess

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GoldenState15@reddit

Oh lol I couldn't decipher it

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unatleticodemadrid@reddit

Czinger’s one of the very few boutique exclusive car manufacturers that excites me, most others are just vaporware. Truly hope they find their footing in the market, I’d love to try one out sometime.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

Yeah and as they lightly touch on throughout the video, the man behind it is the CEO of Divergent, company that develops the software behind the optimization as well as some of the manufacturing So it's not something exclusive to this car, they have several aerospace & automotive customers including Mclaren for the W1 suspension & braking You see very often in hypercars these firms going "oh yeah this is some insane new novel technology that totally works that will DEFINITELY generalize & we will surely scale as a supplier", when in reality its rather overhyped but here its real enough innovation where other people are genuinely paying them for it

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woodsides@reddit

Mate Rimac mentioned that Divergent and their 3D printing solutions (especially for the suspension) was one of the biggest reasons why the Tourbillon is lighter than the Chiron. They're very much going to be the "Cosworth" of suspension and 3D printing in the supercar and hypercar space. I'm still bummed af that Koenigsegg's FreeValve or Bose's electromagnetic dampers didn't manage to go mainstream. Although Ferrari's new multimatic suspension in the Purosangue and Yangwang's suspension is the closest that we have come to that and they're fantastic.

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lowstrife@reddit

And the electric torque fill of a normally jerky sequential box is also a total game changer. Totally eliminates the biggest drivability negative of using a sequential.

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PM_ME_UR_DECOLLETAGE@reddit

Yeah I'm also excited to see how this company progresses. I don't gaf about their hypercar, just about their technology and manufacturing processes.