Are modern cars basically disposable electronics?
Posted by TheLoganReyes@reddit | Autos | View on Reddit | 239 comments
Phones die after 6–8 years. Cars used to last 20–30.
But now everything is touchscreens, sensors, cameras, digital dashboards… and when one fails, repairs cost four figures.
What’s actually happening to 10–20-year-old “high-tech” cars? Are the electronics holding up, or are we creating a future of unrepairable used cars?
Anyone here owned an early iDrive/COMAND, older Tesla, or early Audi Virtual Cockpit? Did the tech age like a tank or like a 2012 laptop?
idiot900@reddit
If you actually consider all cars, not cherry pick the super reliable ones, they absolutely did not last 20-30 years on average. The average car is quite old:
https://www.spglobal.com/automotive-insights/en/blogs/2025/05/average-age-of-vehicle-in-us
infinitecosmic_power@reddit
Seriously, most cars wouldn't last 100k miles well into the late 90s. It was remarkable for someone to flip their odometer because it was a rarity.
Yes, there were outliers, but there were also frequent engine and transmission rebuilds.
This 20-30 year nonsense is mostly fiction.
Today, you see even garbage cars not only routinely getting to 200k miles, but people actually buying them for thousands of dollars as if they aren't fully used up.
Advanced electronics do make self maintenance harder and more expensive. But cars as a whole last longer than ever.
kospar4@reddit
My 1999 Avalon still looks and drives like new! Only 120k, and I’ll bet outlasts anything new. Our 2008 Highlander has 427k miles. Both vehicles are solid! Unlike the new stuff that’s come out in the last decade.
Aggressive_Ask89144@reddit
People are acting like the typical car wasn't like in the Chevy Beretta tier of car that just doesn't exist anymore.
Kseries2497@reddit
I saw a very clean Beretta the other day and was stunned for exactly that reason, almost all cars of that ilk were turned into beer cans probably 15+ years ago. They used to be very common.
keboh@reddit
I’ve bought several cars with 300k on them! 🤣
CDsDontBurn@reddit
Wanna buy a 25yr old Honda with 422k on the clock? 😂
keboh@reddit
Ive got some pocket change for ya 😏
CDsDontBurn@reddit
Add some pocket lint, a half bent paperclip, and a Bic pen and you've got a deal!
Skodakenner@reddit
My coworker was recently mad at his car because the glowplugs had to be replaced after 16 years and over 200k km on his mk6 Golf because old cars used to be way more reliable. I said my granddad was happy when his first mazda lasted more than 4 years before it was rusted completly through. Old cars beeing more reliable is a myth the first truly reliable cars started in the 90s when they figured out how to make them not rust all the time. My Mk4 Golf and E39 BMW are good examples of it imo.
Conscious-Food-9828@reddit
100k miles wasn't that much even for back then. Drive train wise, cars have been pretty reliable for the last 30-40 years. What we can't ignore is just the passing of time. Some cars rot away well before they fail due to mileage.
Alfa16430@reddit
Here I am owning a late ‘80 econobox with 200k km’s on it which never had a single failure worth mentioning (in family since new). That is such a silly take, modern cars have many more components in them which are prone to failure in comparison to old cars having 1 simple electronic module. You can see 50 year old Peugeots being daily driven in for example Africa and I don’t see that happening with a modern car. Besides of that, technology is still the same today, while modern cars are made of components obsolete after a few years. So yeah, modern cars are becoming disposable electronics
Dinglebutterball@reddit
Yea, but it was economically viable to rebuild or replace an engine every 150k miles…
rrapartments@reddit
My dad bought a new 1965 mustang for $2700. By 1970 it was completely rusted out. I don’t think it was a very good car.
Plus_Frosting_2541@reddit
Yeah, mustangs really haven't survived the test of time have they...
rrapartments@reddit
His didn’t
Original-Split5085@reddit
As a young child in the late '60s, our old station wagon went over 100K, it happened when we were all in the car (Sunday trip to get ice cream) so we drove around the block to get to the all zeros mark and counted down the tenths of a mile. Then my dad told the neighbor who came over to see our "brand new car" with zero miles on the odometer.
Cars were much simpler to work on but required far more frequent maintenance, failed much more often and did not last as long.
Floyd86@reddit
The average car is 16 years old in Hungary. On average! So dozens of 20-25 years old cars runs on being used every day
Cranks_No_Start@reddit
While I get you say mostly. I currently have 3 cars that are over 30 years old. And 2 I have been driving since the 90s.
I also used to work on Volvos my last on I sold 10 years ago was at the time 25 years old and over 200k on it.
TehGogglesDoNothing@reddit
Red block Volvos last forever if taken care of.
skorps@reddit
It is also a bit of survivorship bias on cars. The old ones you see are the ones that didn’t have problems. But yes, if you keep up on maintenance cars will last 20-30 years no problem. Most people beat their cars to death though far before
Cranks_No_Start@reddit
From my experience its people just don’t take care of them. It’s skipping the little things and preventative maintenance but waiting until it’s a ton of things wrong.
Shart_In_My_Pants@reddit
Exactly; it goes back to the old phrase "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that".
If anything, I think there is probably a bigger bias against the cars themselves due to people who neglect them. I have a lot of fairly intelligent friends and family, but I bet over half of them don't change their oil on a schedule.
SuperConfused@reddit
My Grandfather had a 70 Buick Electra 225 coupe with over 400k miles when he got his Cadillac Fleetwood in 1988 It went through 5 engine rebuilds and 3 Hydramatic 400 3 speeds that had been rebuilt. He was a Methodist multi point charge Pastor who founded 22 churches in his 44 years in the pulpit. He drove from Maine to Kansas to North Carolina over the years. He was not an itinerant pastor, because he generally had a home church, but he drove all the time.
I miss him and that car.
Affectionate_Love229@reddit
Please stop bringing facts to Reddit, they have no place here!!!
ScottRiqui@reddit
There’s a reason Merle Haggard sang “I wish a Ford and a Chevy would still last ten years like they should” in 1981.
Iliveatnight@reddit
There was an early 60’s British documentary on American throw away culture. Part of it was a junk yard full of American cars that were 8 years old or younger. The yard owner states that he is considering to paying people to bring their cars in to make his job easier. It’s a good reminder that we have ALWAYS said cars aren’t made to last.
A small percentage of cars lasted, but when you have millions and millions of cars, that still means thousands and thousands of cars lasting.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
That documentary sounds prophetic. We’ve always had throwaway culture, but now it’s wrapped in LED strips and subscription plans. Got a link to that film?
Iliveatnight@reddit
I was mistaken about its source, turns out it was the BBC so me searching the other channel was fruitless. The topic of Cars start at around 20:20 and the interview with the scrapyard owner was around 40:20
https://youtu.be/pXGlybglr28
Iliveatnight@reddit
I’ll dig through my history when I am home. I know I saw it on a YouTube channel that uploaded a bunch of old black and white PSAs and other short films from around that time period.
One other video that I remember in particular was teaching how to budget your money while allowing room for fun and other expenses that pop up.
XOM_CVX@reddit
cars did not last 20-30 years back in the days
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Fair point longevity back then meant surviving 100k with duct tape and prayers. But now we’ve got cars hitting 200k with zero rust and full infotainment. Progress or illusion?
Batetrick_Patman@reddit
Complete progress.
Duckonaut27@reddit
Mechanical progress. Otherwise, too many extras that are making modern cars almost unaffordable.
Batetrick_Patman@reddit
Cars never lasted 20-30 years. Hell in the 70s cars were considered done and used up after 100k ‘iles.
tpeeeezy@reddit
brother what are you smoking
Sweet-Meaning9874@reddit
Survivor bias is what he’s witnessing. I have a few classic cars, and I hear the “they don’t make them like they used to” comment. I tell’em good, this 70 year old car was built terribly and is extremely unsafe!
Mindless-Computer598@reddit
They mean they don’t build them cool anymore
STERFRY333@reddit
I sure see a LOT of 80s/90s Volvos on the west coast here. They’re so cheap and plentiful I got mine for $1000
nicholasktu@reddit
Someone told me I'm lucky to have a 1983 Camaro because of how tough old cars are compared to new "plastic" cars. Anyone who has owned a third gen Camaro knows those cars have the durability of an old beer can lol. If I hit a deer the car will just disintegrate.
Occams_RZR900@reddit
It’s funny if you could get a Chevy 350 small block past 100k miles you did great. 200k was simply not possible. And that’s probably one of the most reliable V8’s from the 70’s. I just put 200k on my 01 Chevy Tahoes 5.3l V8 and that thing is still going strong with 45-60psi oil pressure.
Aloha-Eh@reddit
My 68 GMC pickup had the engine rebuilt at 100k miles by the original owner. I got it at about 110k. Don't remember what it had when we got rid of it.
My 86 Sentra went over 100k miles easily. But it had issues. We fixed it until it got into an accident and got scrapped.
I had an 88 Jeep Cherokee that was given to me at 170k. It was still running well (better even, that I6 engine was a real gem that I sorted out) when I sold it north of 230k.
My daughter's first truck was a 87 Toyota pickup with the R22 engine. Again, got it at 170,000 and sold it somewhere north of 230k. Still running fine.
Most cars can be kept going, if you're willing to fix what breaks, and take care of it.
7eregrine@reddit
Mom was in an accident in her old Cutlass Supreme. Car looked great... Mom on the other hand....
Ham_Damnit@reddit
I own every kind of a classic car 'cause I'm rich, right? I have doubles of the cars. Some of 'em. That way I know I have a pristine one in storage. Then I can drive it, it gets scratched, I don't care.
Actually, I have triples of the Barracuda. I have triples, right? If I don't, the other stuff's not true.
See, the Barracuda's the one I have triples of. Oh, no, actually, I also have triples of the Road Runner, too. But just those two. And your dad and I are the same age, and I'm rich and I have triples of the Barracuda and the Road Runner.
Triples makes it safe. Triples is best.
Gubbtratt1@reddit
Survivor bias means that the cars that today are 40 years old didn't have any manufacturing flaws and will last the rest of your life with good maintenance.
nullpassword@reddit
Got a '75 f100... Most interesting thing it did was lose steering... Wheel fell off . Brakes went out.. got stuck in forward. Turn on headlights truck die. No shoulder belts, , abs, power steering, ac, airbag. Learned to pay attention to bad signs.
busted_up_chiffarobe@reddit
Same here. I still have two classics - a '67 and '75 Gran Sports.
The '67 is essentially death with a beautiful paint job. Fast, manual drum brakes, and lap belts.
The '75 is better - disc brakes, shoulder belts, a steering wheel that won't win in an argument.
Both make me very happy that cars are built the way they are today.
I remember in 1996 when I got out of college and bought my first new car. A 1996 Eagle Vision TSi. This replaced a 1968 Caprice 396 that my grandfather bought new. I couldn't believe how much better of a car it was! I was constantly working on the '68, fixing something, rebuilt the engine, it never stopped. Well, it stopped when I sold it!
Going 120 mph in that thing was fun on the Montana interstate system when there was no speed limit. But I started to think about what would happen if I had to STOP.
Late-Tap-5687@reddit
I'll never forget the first time I drove an old school muscle car, a '70 Challenger, and I couldn't believe how rough it felt compared to my modern daily. The owner said what do you expect from a (then) 40 year old car, things have come a long way.
benzguy95@reddit
Off topic, how was the Vision?
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Survivor bias is real. But those survivors are still rolling. What’s the oldest car you’ve owned that actually felt safe?
Sweet-Meaning9874@reddit
I never thought much about safety until I got used to some more modern cars. My daily driver is a large truck that has more airbags than cylinders, and it’s got cameras, sensors, lane safety features, etc. wife’s car is an EV with more horsepower than anything I’ve owned before (>500), and has (semi) self driving, and all kinds of safety features. I feel a lot more exposed these days when I’m driving one of my classics, especially when I’m on the highway. These cars don’t even have seatbelts or collapsible steering columns. (1949&1954)
markeydarkey2@reddit
most cars were deathtraps until 20-30 years ago
hermitcraftfan135@reddit
Haha exactly. I love my 1974 Fiat, but hooooly shit I’m glad new cars are built a lot better lol
CPOx@reddit
For real. When was the last time somebody saw a mid 90s Cavalier or Neon on the road?
combong@reddit
My buddy has a Cavalier coupe that he’s been dailying for years, low mileage too I think around 70k
Boxofbikeparts@reddit
I have a nice '98 Neon sport coupe that runs great and looks good because it is garage kept.
Hrmerder@reddit
I had a 93 cavalier z24… biggest pos i have ever laid eyes on… I still can’t believe they are sought after..
EastClevelandBest@reddit
90s cars and especially trucks routinely last 20-30 years, what are you smoking
SparrowBirch@reddit
People see the well cared for survivor cars and think they are the norm. The reality is that most cars from that era have been in a junkyard for years.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Exactly. The ones that lasted were babied. The rest? Gone. What’s your take on modern cars will any of them be ‘survivors’ in 2045?
dustytraill49@reddit
Just like in the 90s, 4 Runners, Supra’s, Mx5’s, Wranglers, M3’s, 911’s etc etc will survive. Because the people who buy them want them to.
TalbotFarwell@reddit
The difference is that these days people keep older (10+) cars and trucks years running out of necessity, not out of choice. It’s too expensive to buy new and even used car/truck prices are insane. Prices are going up way too high and wages/salaries aren’t keeping up.
essjay2009@reddit
I think there are a few misconceptions held by OP. As you suggest, modern cars are way more reliable than equivalent cars from 20+ years ago. The other thing is repair costs will come down as other manufacturers step in to replace OEM parts. It takes a while to get there and it’s driven by the market so if the cars aren’t breaking there’s no incentive for people to build replacement parts. It’s market forces. It’ll come.
There will also be upgrades. We’re already seeing this with options to retro-fit things like CarPlay, sensors and cameras. So the older tech will get replaced over time. This happened with older cars too where undesirable or unreliable components were upgraded by owners many years after the car was released. Things like early air suspension systems being replaced are a good example. I can definitely see early sat nav systems being replaced en masse with newer units.
woowoo293@reddit
OP is just here to confirm his preconception regardless of the data. OP is only responding to the random anecdotes here that confirm his view.
Grigio_cervello@reddit
Guess you only drove Chryslers.
Also, maintenance is a thing
tpeeeezy@reddit
maintenance is a variable that can be applied to any car so its a moot point for this discussion. also the only American car ive ever driven is a tesla, ive owned 4 different Mercedes ranging from an 05 to a 21. mile for mile the newer the car the more reliable its become.
Grigio_cervello@reddit
Here I am, driving a 1980's, barebones basic F150, which will probably last longer than you will be alive
Duckonaut27@reddit
302 with a 5 speed?
tpeeeezy@reddit
MY COLLARS BLUE BUT MY NECK IS REDDDDDDD
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Fiction for most, reality for a few. You ever seen a 90s Corolla still running like it’s 2002?
nasadowsk@reddit
I've seen older than that still running:
tpeeeezy@reddit
what about the other 3 million 90s corollas that were scrapped by 2005?
StarsandMaple@reddit
I had a 90 year old car...
Doesn't mean Model As lasted 90years.
FatherOf3-2Xs@reddit
There is a saying that there is no more expensive car than a cheap German luxury car. There is no particular point of failure, just crazy expensive replacement parts. It doesn't take long before they are mechanically totaled.
As an example, a friend of mine paid 13k for a really well maintained BMW 5 series. It had a couple of seemingly minor problems, including a headlight being out. She took it to a shop and was quoted $11k just for the headlight because the problem wasn't solved by a bulb. Worse, they couldn't guarantee that the new headlamp assembly would fully fix the problem, it was just the first step in troubleshooting.
To your question, they are totally disposable.
Glass_Landscape_8588@reddit
Sad that swapping an $11k part is considered trouble shooting. A multimeter would pin down the exact source of the problem.
Also $11k headlights shouldn’t exist.
DetectiveNarrow@reddit
The parts actually aren’t all that expensive for the common 3 and 5 series. Somethings are a bit more involved to fix. Your friend was probably just fleeced because she’s a woman with a BMW. A mechanic is gonna rub his hands together seeing that pull into the shop. You also gotta know what’s an actual problem on these cars and what’s not. I bet the adaptive headlights just stopped working ( light turn as you do) and that’s something you can totally live without with and not drop 11k on. Sounds like dealer pricing too. Luxury cars have a lot of idiot lights.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
You’re right dealer pricing and gender bias are a brutal combo. What’s your go-to strategy for avoiding the fleece when owning a luxury badge?
LeGaspyGaspe@reddit
The best advice I can give applies to everything, really:
Make sure you understand what your buying and what it could cost, and learn how to spin your own wrench.
That 11k headlight that might not even fix the issue at all? Lol. $50 voltmeter and 25 minutes of YouTube and I bet we could have narrowed it down in no time. Sure, there's a chance we might have needed an expensive scan tool but honestly with these kinds of cars, it's a very worthwhile purchase anyway. It would pay for its self sooner or later.
Naturally, replacing the light assembly could be a big job, but give us a free weekend and a driveway, and youl see that even if the whole front end has to come off, it's really just nuts, bolts and clips. Annoying? Sure. Unnerving? Definitely. But once it's done, you'd be sitting there thinking "shit people actually PAY other people for this?"
When it's all said and done, you probably will have spent less than half. And that includes a bunch of new tools and the experience gained, all of which will serve you again many times over.
That's really it. A willingness to do at least some of your own work. A lot of people don't want to touch euros because they have a reputation for being over engineered and obnoxiously complicated. But honestly, all cars are like that today. Once you've got some time under the hood under your belt and figured out some of the unique German engineering quirks these cars have, youl realize it's all kind of the same.
Salt_Proposal_742@reddit
YouTube.
I actually Google all of my car problems first. Then go to the proper YouTube videos, or read a Reddit or forum thread about the issue. But the parts online and fix it myself.
DetectiveNarrow@reddit
Check forums/ groups/subreddits first. If your car isn’t brand new and somewhat common guarantee someone has already had whatever problems or concern you got. My FX45 is rather uncommon but still plenty of people in my groups that have help me thru issues they saw 10 years ago. Dealer for diagnosis , independent shop for actual repairs. Best to find a shop that specializes in your make.
Ok-Highlight-3402@reddit
All I hear when people say this is: "I am or I have a terrible mechanic" don't bring your BWM/VAG products to people accustomed to working on Silverados.
ZliaYgloshlaif@reddit
Repair shops in the US really are a next level clown circus.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
$11k for a headlight is criminal. Adaptive systems are cool until they bankrupt you. What ended up happening did she fix it or walk away?
FatherOf3-2Xs@reddit
She traded for a Prius. She lost money, but she ended up with reliable vehicle.
PlaceboASPD@reddit
Who told you phones last 6-8 years, old Betsy here is from 2014.
Priority_Spiritual@reddit
This is why I'm keeping my 20yo Saab, my 33yo Talbot motorhome and my 40yo Vauxhall Nova! ❤️
urbanek2525@reddit
Cars never routinely lasted 20 years. My 67 Chevrolet was considered a dinosaur in 1980 and it died before 1985 rolled around.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
True, but the ones that did last became legends. The rest? Crushed and forgotten. What’s the oldest car you’ve personally seen still daily driven?
urbanek2525@reddit
The ones that are still around don't have any orginal parts except maybe some of the original sheet metal.
My friend spent thousands and thousands of dollars restoring a 68 Chevelle. The only thing orginal is the sheet metal frame and about 70% of the sheet metal that wasn't rusted.
These days, there are a number of 1995 cars on the road (mostly Japanese). In 1985, any car from 1955 was an oddity. Cars last longer today.
Any car I bought in the 70s, 80s was a piece of crap. My 1984 Ford Tempo was absolute crap. You're not going to see anyone restore a K-Car. Nobody is going to restore a 1995 Honda Accord either, but you don't have to. If it's still running, it's because it lasted that long.
Kseries2497@reddit
Guaranteed some psychopath is out there restoring a K car right now. Why? No one knows, but exposure to lead-based paint probably has a lot to do with it.
nasadowsk@reddit
I still see the occasional K car. I don't know why, but they're the most common American car from the 80s that I see
Wankfurter@reddit
I daily a 74 beetle with 97k on the odometer. It’s been well maintained its entire life. I drive it HARD. I keep it in the garage when I’m not driving it. I just picked up a 2000 Sienna with 280k miles. It’s been well maintained its entire life. It drives very smoothly. The previous owner is my best friend and I picked the sienna out for him 7 years ago. He put 230k of those miles on it and they are all flat highway miles because he used to live 40 miles out of town. I’d trust either of them to take me 500 miles right now.
busted_up_chiffarobe@reddit
I drove a '68 Chevrolet w/396 from 86 to 96, got a lot of attention but I was always working on it. I miss it, but still, those cars were not really designed to go much over 100k without a ton of constant work.
WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit
Are you a dinosaur?
busted_up_chiffarobe@reddit
Some days I feel like it!
Direct_Course_2576@reddit
web based tech ages like milk. i predict in the next decade or so a good bit of cars going into junk yards will be due to discontinued electronics. yall wanted dumb ass phone shit shoehorned into your cars and a 75 star crash test safety rating in a shitty minivan i mean crossover now here we are with 10 year lifespan disposable cell phones on wheels
Dontshootmepeas@reddit
Cars lasting long term is a fairly new phenomenon. It's only cars made in the last 30 years or so that we expect to last 100k miles easily. Before that cars were designed and expected to last 100k miles and that was it. Off to the scrap yard after that.
Bizzzle80@reddit
I feel like he does this like a teen who thinks nazi dogma is edgy
Chicken_shish@reddit
The level of integration will be (is already) a huge problem.
Ever since the 90s, car electronics came in 2 packages - single DIN and Double DIN. When you got pissed off with the radio, you yanked it out and shoved a newer one in. That's why a 40 year old car that I happen to own has wireless CarPlay, as well asvoice control over the audio and phone. Note that mobile phones had not even been invented when this car was made.
Modern systems - well, the stereo is the same unit as the HVAC, and it is all wired into CAN anyway, so good luck changing that. And good luck getting updates or fixes for some 8 year old lump of electronics in 2033 that you are buying today.
obxtalldude@reddit
2016 S 75 Tesla still runs great. Software is better than new cars.
I could easily see getting another 10 years out of it for around town use.
sakara123@reddit
Survivorship bias has us thinking old vehicles lasted a long time or went a long ways without major maintenance. There's been relatively recent commuterbox drivetrains that would need rebuilds at 30-50k, Frames that would crumple in by 80k and just about everything that could go wrong in less time than the average warranty covers these days.
Newer vehicles are going to be a bit more of a pain to maintain as they age due to things like BCMs being finnicky, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some clever workarounds, much like we have for issues in the past. The mechanical components on most modern vehicles will massively outlast those of older generations if properly taken care of.
robhw@reddit
Fuck no, my $54k '17 Honda Pilot has 155k miles and the only thing wrong with it is a camera that doesn't work that controls the cruise control and lane sensors, the repair would cost well over $2k though. Nope.
theghoulsgarage@reddit
Yes. With plastic control arms.
False_Investment1074@reddit
Yes
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hinault81@reddit
Ive had some cars from the 60s/70s. They were/are just simpler. Plus a lot of things are really overbuilt. Rust is obviously hard on any vehicle.
We have a fleet of vehicles and can generally get 25 years of hard use out of them, replacing things and maintaining over time, but they eventually get to a point where it's hard to get parts, or repairs are more and more frequent that you cant use the vehicle properly. So we get rid of it at that point.
But general population, id argue that most people dont want a 30 year old car. I have a friend who had a mint 90s Japanese car. But they got rid of it becauae it lacked features (and probably safety) they wanted. I think most people, they get 15 years out and they want something new and shiny. And most manufacturers cater to those buyers.
For my 60s car, it had a 2 speed transmission, which is not super functional, nor good on gas. Plus you dont really feel safe in it with only a lap belt.
rdzilla01@reddit
My current cars are a 2004, 2008, 2020 and 2023. The 2004 and 2008 I maintain myself because I am able to. The 2020 I try to do on it what I can. The 2023 I can’t do much aside from brakes since everything else requires resetting service with a special Land Rover interface.
pridejoker@reddit
Modern cars are ipads with wheels.
Guddentopper@reddit
As someone who’s actually in the automotive industry, having been a dealer technician in the late noughties, to working in almost every facet of the industry (except for manufacturing and paint) and now running a restoration shop. I can 100% tell you, that the technology in cars from the mid 2000s was outdated by the late 2000s while the technology from the mod teens is still holding up pretty well halfway through the 20s. Obviously it’s not fantastic. Touchscreen 10 years ago were garbage by today’s standards, but years ahead of where they were 15 years ago. Personally, I think this has to do with the majority of electronics companies getting more or less on the same page about things like the UI and a lot of them tends to run on very similar operating systems (not a computer guy just noticed very similar things about the operating systems) even the software that the cars themselves use is more or less pretty hammered out and uniform these days.
With regards to the tech inside the car like satellite navigation auto dimming headlights, the infotainment system, and things like that, I would say that the newer cars are going to be better for longer until there’s a huge change in the technology that we use in those systems. The first AI automotive assistant or the first holographic display unit. Would make every touchscreen in any car look like something from the Victorian era. But until that happens, I really don’t see the technology and cars becoming as obsolete as quickly as it used to, but make no mistake. It will be obsolete in less than 20 years.
Regarding the cars themselves manufacturing technology has come 1,000,000,000 miles from where it was in the late 90s, materials that were once reserved for Formula One world champion teams are now found in your everyday Lexus. Magnesium wheels, carbon fiber, Kevlar, Bonded monocoque chassis, antilock, brakes traction control, stability management, magnetic shock absorbers. You can get that on almost any base model vehicle from any upmarket manufacturer. And you can get that on the higher end models for the lower tier manufacturers.
Some things have made cars last longer. Some things have made cars more disposable.
A pushrod V8 is almost indestructible, but it’s an incredibly wasteful process to run it. A “sealed for life” transmission works great for the first owner of a car that will own it for 5 to 7 years on the economy cars and 2 to 3 years on luxury cars. But that transmission is going to fail because you can’t exchange the fluid (you can but “they” will tell you it isn’t needed). It’s a double edged sword. On one hand, older cars would last longer, but required more maintenance.
It’s not Survivor bias as others have claimed, it’s 99.99% of the population has no idea about how to correctly maintain a vehicle according to the manufacturer. My old four-wheel-drive for instance, suggests that I check the wheel bearings (tapered style) every time I change the oil, and adjust them if needed (a 20min job per wheel, with a lift and the right tools). Where is a modern four-wheel-drive has a wheel bearing that will go maintenance free for 100,000 miles but must be replaced when it falls out of spec because there are no adjustments to be made. (Sealed ball or roller style).
The same thing goes for the ignition system, I’ve seen plenty of cars that are 50 or 60 years old or more with the original distributor. When a distributor stops working, you replace the wear items inside of it like the cap, rotor, points and/or condenser, most of the time it’s under 40 bucks in parts and maybe an hour of your time. But you do need tools that aren’t used on modern cars and a little bit of know how. Personally, I would prefer doing a distributor refresh every 15 to 20 years then replacing all of ignition coils. A distributor rebuild kit for a 74 Chevy small block is about $36. And don’t forget that distributor powers all eight cylinders. The cost of a single ignition coil on a modern Chevy LS engine is about $54, but you need eight of them.
In short cars have gotten more refined, but are disposable items these days. Where as vintage cars were built before planned, obsolescence was a concept in the automotive world. Where you sold your brand either by being known for being the fastest thing out there the most reliable thing out there. There’s a reason that the Toyota pick up truck is the number one selling truck around the globe. It used to belong to Land Rover, but then the Japanese came along and built something more reliable. Unfortunately, motoring and motoring enthusiast today don’t have a firsthand experience of what it used to mean to build a dependable vehicle, and how important it was for the consumer and the manufacturer to make sure that such vehicles were exactly as advertised and would last a lifetime. Also, the endless need of convenience in today’s society has driven people away from maintaining and servicing their own vehicles, on a much more macro scale from the manufacturers point of view, it cost less in parts to replace an entire unit than it would cost in labor to repair said unit. These vehicles would become modular because you just throw the entire assembly away because one component had failed.
If you want to go down the rabbit hole of automotive design through the last hundred years, I would recommend you start at government regulation and then move onto the rise of the Japanese car industry, post World War II.
I hope that answered your question, if it did great if it didn’t tell me to sod off.
Raalf@reddit
10 year old model S here.
The service manuals are 100% all available, and so far I have not had a single part I could not order OEM. I am fairly capable mechanically (I can swap head gaskets, tune a carb, replace driveshafts, troubleshoot ODB2 codes, but not comfortable doing machine work or swapping engine harnesses) and so far I feel like I could do everything short of a battery swap and that's just due to programming/configuring. Mechanically these cars are brutally simple and well documented.
scott2449@reddit
This person is not old enough to remember that it used to be a miracle if a car made 100k without a complete rebuild 😎
375InStroke@reddit
Exactly. I don't know how many times someone's told me their car's stuck at the dealer because some little module that controls the AC, or windows, is bad, causing the battery to drain, and it's been on backorder for months. What happens to part availability in ten or twenty years? All my cars are over 50 years old. Any of these POS cars going to make it ten?
Organic_Acidd463@reddit
I'd argue it's more a case of when things go wrong the cost to repair is much higher, not that they can't last. I've seen old Tesla's and BMW's still working fine.
There's definitely an issue with engine reliability due to emissions and fuel economy requirements -especially on diesel engines. Things like DI without port injection guarantees intake valves will need a major service around 100k miles for example. Or manufacturers claiming 'lifetime' fluids for the transmission which is a pure lie. If you religiously maintain a vehicle like I do, with 5k mile synthetic oil changes (instead of the insane 10k miles the manufacturer recommends) then they can and do last.
A side note, I've seen a lot of very high mileage Tesla's still on the original battery and motors. I'd argue in theory EV's should be far more reliable.
Gavekort@reddit
Cars are made to a much higher standard than regular consumer electronics, both for safety but also for reliability.
Even after the warranty is expired the car manufacturers want their cars to carry a legacy as reliable, so having it fail after 6-8 years would be catastrophic for their reputation.
HubertBrooks@reddit
Not if you are Stellantis.
kdhardon@reddit
My experience is the opposite. Once their warranty obligation is gone, part prices go up, availability goes down.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
That’s the trap parts get rare, prices go up, and suddenly your reliable car is a liability. What’s the one part you’ve struggled to source lately?
kdhardon@reddit
I remember when I was at VW, instrument clusters were running out. The imobilizer runs through the cluster. Bricked car?
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
LS430 is a legend. Electronics still kicking after 25 years is a flex. What’s the weirdest thing that still works perfectly and the one thing that refuses to?
Chance-Tip9312@reddit
20-30 years? I think that's a legend right there
TSLAog@reddit
You can replace ECUs and touchscreens, it’s not rocket science. Dealer technicians like myself do electrical diag and repair commonly.
Also, touchscreens rarely fail in my experience, The edge of the screen may yellow, or the common areas can get “glossy” but they still work.
My neighbor has like 185,XXX on a 2015 Model-S. I helped him repair a driver door handle mechanism, the little paddle gear snapped. He also had a charge port door failure. But it’s been genuinely reliable, just a few little things here and there.
Ok-Situation-9199@reddit
Great Question! We’ll see! I have cars 26 years old with few electronic problems (mainly radio resistant). On the other hand I had PC Board problems when temp cycling caused channels to crack.
AggravatingLow77@reddit
Depends on the model.
Turbocharged, inexpensive, base model commuter car? Yeah, get out of it by 100k miles…
Naturally aspirated, large displacement engines, performance car?
Keep it in the family as long as you can man.
PckMan@reddit
A lot of the components in new cars, especially electronic components, are sealed units. This means that if they go bad, there's nothing you can do. You can't repair them, and even if you could open them up there's not much you can do with microchips other than replacing them, and sourcing them is very difficult. People will say "but they don't ever break down" but they do, and when they do they cost a lot to replace, which only increases as time goes on and stocks shrink. And of course manufacturers are fighting tooth and nail to prevent people from having full software access in their cars' systems. Luckily hackers just love to hack for the sake of it so eventually solutions crop up for any and all cars.
But it's not just electronics. A lot of parts that used to be made of metal are now made of plastic. This drives down costs for manufacturers and makes vehicles lighter, but it also makes it hard to replace said parts because whereas a semi competent machinist/welder can repair or fabricate almost anything made out of metal, even if it's not cheap, plastic injection molding is something that's practically impossible to do in a small scale and it's even more expensive than metal fabrication. A common problem for old cars is running out of plastic parts long before engine/drive train parts are even starting to become scarce.
We're not sure yet how well these cars will hold up because they're fairly "new", but I think a lot of people are right to assume they won't last as well as older cars did. Others are of the opinion that electronics can essentially last indefinitely and won't be a major issue but I have my doubts on that for various reasons.
Crazy_Mix_8260@reddit
I daily drive a 99 model pickup truck, 26 years old. Nothing I repeat nothing that is currently made today will be on the road 26 years from now. That is the cold hard truth.
ferraricare@reddit
Nope, on my fifth BMW, each went at least 100K miles.
JimJamesCruz@reddit
The reality of the matter is that the cars of today are totally disposable, they are not mostly made to be good, durable and repairable, they are made with the purpose of making the repair cost greater than the real value after depreciation. Cars over 20 years old tend to make them more durable, repairable, reliable and much less expensive at the moment than they are today, I just say...
Dedward5@reddit
One issue is the people who can fix this stuff are not the old school mechanics, different skill set. The 3rd party repair market will catch up, but soon there will need to be an “IT department” as well as the wrench guys.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Exactly. The future mechanic’s toolbox includes a laptop and a multimeter. You think trade schools will start splitting into ‘wrench’ and ‘tech’ tracks?
tjdux@reddit
The future is now or maybe a decade ago...
HengaHox@reddit
Not to make anyone feel old but even 20 years ago reading fault codes with a computer was commonplace.
Dedward5@reddit
Definitely. Increasing specialism is inevitable IMO. I work in my cars a lot, but my first job was PC repair and I also fixed many a screen/battery etc on phones, the micro repairs people do now are mind blowing + the hobby stuff on retro computing repair.
saml01@reddit
It’s already happened. You can’t fix anything on modern cars unless you plug it into a diagnostic system that can run self tests, tell you what’s wrong, then after you replace the part have to calibrate or marry it to the car.
Dedward5@reddit
I have to do that on my 25 year old Audi. Using VCDS to do “throttle and EGR adaptation”. $99 software, same on my 2008 Landrover Discovery, $100 ish scan tool. As I tend to own cars for a long time it’s fine to spend that on tooling.
OPA73@reddit
Some stealerships are already doing an electronic guy type position.
ilovechoralmusic@reddit
Hahahaha. After 35 years of collecting cars, no, they never lasted this long en masse. What you’re falling for is pure, unfiltered survivorship bias. The only reason you “remember” old cars that ran forever is because the broken ones got scrapped, out of sight.
If you check the numbers, you’ll see modern cars simply live longer. According to the European Environment Agency (EEA), the average age of passenger cars in the EU climbed from about 10.9 years in 2013 to 12.3 years in 2022. 
TalbotFarwell@reddit
That average age is only going to keep going up as cars get more and more expensive… 😬
ScudsCorp@reddit
Salt does SO much to wreck longevity
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
If anyone has a 10+ year old luxury car with early digital stuff (BMW iDrive, Mercedes COMAND, Lexus Enform, Audi MMI), how many electronic issues have you actually had? Curious if reality matches the fear.
OPA73@reddit
I drive a 2001 Corvette with the virtual heads up display that sits up on the windshield like a fighter jet. 24 years on and it works just fine. But it’s a stand alone system. I cringe when looking at the integrated dash with all things electronic controlling everything.
Duckonaut27@reddit
The corvette is a mechanically bulletproof car at least. You won’t be spending much to repair major stuff.
OPA73@reddit
Absolutely, except electrical connections and grounds. Gotta keep on top of the ground points.
Flamingi123@reddit
I’m pretty sure the infotainment is the one thing that will not give you troubles. On the other hand the literally hundreds of ECUs for all of the other features will. Like your A/C not working properly, but only after an hour long drive, because the ECU for the windscreen wiper crashed. (Actually what happened to my F11, the sensor for the windscreen wiper is also a thermal/solar input for the climate control). Who the f will diagnose that? Certainly not your run of the mill auto mechanic.
Salt_Proposal_742@reddit
I’ve had to replace my infotainment system myself.
It’s a known problem in my model of Subaru Outback. The screen starts to delaminate, and it has “ghost touches.”
Luckily there’s a company who makes an off brand version of it for $300. The Subaru brand is a grand.
munche@reddit
My B8.5 S4 had plenty of problems but electronics weren't the source of them
The MMI was Fine, just old
RAM_THE_MAN_PARTS@reddit
Thinking of getting a b8.5. What were your issues?
yyytobyyy@reddit
I have a 17yo convertible BMW with iDrive, keyless access, memory seats, automatic high beams, rain sensor, adaptive electronic brake force distribution, fiber optic multimedia bus...all bells and whistles. Recently I learned that the car can diagnose faulty bearing on an engine fan by measuring how fast the fan slows down.
There are no issues with electronics. The only issues are standard bmw oil gaskets that leak on every BMW and the plastic water pump.
DanGleeballs@reddit
10 year old Panamera. Zero issues whatsoever,
maybach320@reddit
I’ve never had an issue with Command other than some pixels in the screen checking out from age and use over hundreds of thousands of miles and 15 years of daily use.
ilovechoralmusic@reddit
have a 2003 SL500, a 2010 750i, and a Porsche 987.2 in my collection that all run perfectly fine. I bring them in for an oil change at least once a year and get everything done that needs to be done. You Americans are just absolutely cheap fucks when it comes to repairs and maintenance. The stupid shit I read people doing to their Benzes and BMWs blows my mind. Maybe that’s why middle class cars like Benz, BMWs and Audis break down on you.
lique_madique@reddit
I had a 2009 C63 for a few years until I sold it recently and the infotainment and all electronics worked on it perfectly fine. My 2011 M3 had all the electronics work on it perfectly fine until I pulled them out for weight savings. I think you overestimate their failures.
Racer_5@reddit
Nice car choices
sw201444@reddit
2007 Lexus GX470 - no issues. But the NAV is integrated into the climate so it’s not easily swapped
Several replacements for the glovebox DVD player that will enable wireless CarPlay, or you can even get a wireless CarPlay unit and power it via cig lighter/aux. that’s my only complaint. All of it works fine.
DetectiveNarrow@reddit
Similar situation with my FX45, the Tesla style screen was like 600 bucks but it works and Retains the AC controls and such. Not as easy or cheap as throwing in a reputable double din tho
sw201444@reddit
Oh yeah! They make those for the GX too, but I really like being able to watch dvds when I’m camping or on lunch - I know that makes me sound ancient but DVDs are insanely cheap. I’d lose that feature. I think I also lose out on the 3.1 surround sound.
I currently run a wireless CarPlay tablet thing I got off of TikTok shop pre tariffs for like $34. Someone on Etsy sells a printed bracket that replaces the ashtray with a mount for it. Looks great and it’s way out of my way haha. Plus it works fantastic, I’ve got next to no complaints about it, especially considering it was so cheap.
DetectiveNarrow@reddit
Yep have one of those in my other car off Amazon for like 50 bucks. If you can mount it somewhere decent those little screens are the best bang for your buck. I will say my FX has a spare tire woofer ( factory) and 8 speakers I think. It sounds way better than stock
oneplus2plus2plusone@reddit
My '08 S550 is going on 280,000 miles with almost no electronic issues. Biggest item has been the air ride, and the gears in the sunroof broke so I don't use it. Otherwise motor mounts and mostly routine maintenance.
karlowolf05@reddit
Not much honestly, but that was way less complex than modern than modern touch screen shit...
What_Reddit_Thinks@reddit
These cars will a absolutely be unusable in 20-30 years. More and more critical aspects of the vehicle are being rolled into BCMs and modules and they will be if not unrepairable to anyone but a certified mechanic for that brand and set of years, will be utterly cost prohibitive.
Everyone in these comments is just talking about their own personal piece of shit bmw that still works, I haven’t seen any comments from people who actually are turning the wrenches in this industry.
The direction of the industry from the manufacturers perspective is going towards leasing anyways. In the future it will not be in GM’s interest to sell you a car to own. They will be leasing fleets to third party companies doing some ridesharing shit. So churning out new junk every 5 years in a captured market will be what they’re doing instead of having to make something that barely limps past the warranty guarantee times.
The industry is fucked my friend.
SirKevise@reddit
If you buy any ice car for sure e it will die around 10 to 15 years get a Lee's moving parts like a EV and you will be an enjoy for at least 17 years
Grimphonk@reddit
All i know is cars are losing their characters. If you look at the cars that were made before 2018 they had characteristic features the least was their looks was. But for some reason newer cars looks like minimalised on purpose like byd or newer models of Hyundai. And if you look at the engines they are like really covered up so they are harder to fix(imo). I think they just want us to use a car only for a year and change it to a newer model like a phone...
Agreeable_Flight4264@reddit
Damn every bmw I have owned has gotten at least 15 years. Says a lot of not even doing oil changes and beating on ur cars
Ok-Lavishness-349@reddit
I have a ten-year-old Nissan leaf. The battery range is down somewhat from when it was new, but other than that it still drives great.
WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit
LOL!
Ok-Lavishness-349@reddit
Thanks for your reply, but I am not sure what is laugh-out-loud funny about my comment. Is it the idea that a Nissan Leaf drives great? Actually, Leafs do drive great; the electric motor gives it a lot of low-end torque and so they are very responsive for a car in its price range. And, it has been quite reliable over the years; no repairs have been needed.
Or, is it that the range is not as great as when it was new? If so, then there is nothing especially surprising about that; it is well known that rechargeable batteries don't last forever.
Catatafish@reddit
Yes. You can buy old Teslas, Leafs, and 500e for nothing cause they can barely hold a charge to get you to the store & back.
Worst part is the cars are still usually fine, but they just need a battery pack... which isn't worth 10k+ for an already aged one.
PCBrev@reddit
I’m in a truck subreddit and I see people paying 20 grand for 10 year-old trucks with 150,000 miles all the time. I don’t know why or how they do it?
timmmarkIII@reddit
An electric car is disposable, unless the price of new batteries comes down.
Jabba_the_Putt@reddit
Every car my family has ever owned has gone into 200k+ mole territory with minimal repairs outside of maintenance....all in the 90s and 2000s I mean
I dont know what yall are smoking saying that just wasnt so, but seeing how many people neglect and abuse their cars I wouldnt be surprised if that was many of yall
The one thing that without a DOUBT is better about new cars is safety. Cars newer than 2010 or so are literally leagues and leagues safer than anything other than maybe a Saab or a Volvo from back then.
MaximumStock7@reddit
Modern cars are way more reliable than before. I would ask what cars lasted 20-30 years? Individual components are more reliable and the transition to electric cars means there are thousands of less individual components to go wrong.
SwayingTreeGT@reddit
In terms of Teslas and other older EV’s, it’s actually fairly common to take an old worn out battery (250,000miles/400,000km’s) and swap in a refurbished battery with higher capacity and higher power output than when the car was originally purchased. Tesla also offers a complete retrofit for the infotainment from the 10-15 year old system to the newest generation computer and screens. One of the only manufacturers I know of that offers something like that.
SparrowBirch@reddit
Porsche is doing some cool stuff with their older head units
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Porsche’s retro head unit program is underrated. OEMs should be doing this across the board. What model did you see it in?
SparrowBirch@reddit
Just saw Doug Demuro’s 993 turbo with one. Looked like it came that way from the factory.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Tesla’s retrofit game is strong. It’s wild that they’ll upgrade a decade-old screen while others won’t even offer map updates. Do you think that model will spread to legacy brands?
SwayingTreeGT@reddit
Legacy brands have never shown an interest in modernizing anything once it leaves the dealership. I tried upgrading my old Explorer to a newer version of Sync and it was a several thousand dollar experiment that would’ve needed a custom programmed head unit.
Few-Image-7793@reddit
yall be talking to ai
Interesting. What is the oldest car that you have driven?
Unlucky_Reception_30@reddit
The luxury ones are for sure. A brand new F150 work truck will be just as good 15 years from now as it is today.
bikesandtacos@reddit
I have a work truck Chevy, 2015. I bought it bc it had fewer buttons, motors and electronics in general. Now, a decade later, Had to replace radio and speakers but otherwise, absolutely no regrets. This is my take, all of those luxury items are liabilities after a few years.
Round_Ad_6369@reddit
I have a bicycle, 2010. I bought it bc it had fewer buttons, motors and electronics in general. Now, a decade later, had to replace the bell and chain, but otherwise, absolutely not regrets. This is my take, all of those luxury items like engines are liabilities after a few year
"More complex things have more likelihood to break", what a controversial take
bikesandtacos@reddit
“Some people decide to buy cars without disposable electronics.”
WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit
Most people in this comment section are just dinosaurs.
Mammoth_Duck4343@reddit
We have a 2011 Mercedes with Comand, which was an expensive option at the time. We also have a Tesla Model 3. Compared to the Tesla, Comand is barely usable: No real-time traffic information, cumbersome address entry, no new map updates (that's a disgrace). The good thing is that it can do Bluetooth audio streaming, so that you have Spotify and the SRF app is a very good alternative for the missing DAB+.
I also used to have a 2010 Audi with DAB (without +). In the end, there was only 1 radio channel available.
WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit
r/swasticars
ConsistentCap1765@reddit
My 2005 gps and touchscreen interface still works.
Gps isnt accurate or updated. But all the features still works
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Respect. If it still boots, it still counts. What car is it in—and what’s the weirdest feature that still works?
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Comand vs. Tesla is night and day. You think legacy brands will ever catch up on software, or is it too late?
Lit-Up@reddit
I don’t need any technology in my car other than my smartphone. All I need is a phone mount and some way to connect the phone to power and the head unit for sound.
WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit
I think that you should stop being a dinosaur.
My Citroën has everything touch-only and I mostly hate it.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
That’s the minimalist dream. Phone, mount, power. Everything else is just a distraction. What car are you running that lets you keep it that simple?
Lit-Up@reddit
A 2005 Fiat Panda 169 1.2L with manual gearbox. It’s my first car, I’ve owned it for over ten years, and I’m only now going to get a second car (MX5).
Safe_Chicken_6633@reddit
Don't even need a head unit, just a $14.99 Bluetooth speaker
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Bluetooth speaker gang. You ever try one of those rugged ones with magnetic mounts? Surprisingly solid for backroad chaos.
Lit-Up@reddit
I prefer the cars speakers for stereo
Safe_Chicken_6633@reddit
That's fair
saustin66@reddit
I remember back in high school a couple guys had old Caddies that none of the fancy electrical stuff worked anymore. This was late sixties.
WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit
I thought that you were talking about the VW Caddy.
OPA73@reddit
I’ve looked at 1960s project cars and lots of stuff ran on vacuum. Worse to fix than electronics but at least you can find the hoses in a store.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Even back then, the Cadillac dream came with electrical nightmares. Wild how some tech fails faster than rust. What was the weirdest electrical glitch you saw in those old land yachts?
rneuf@reddit
I had a 2019 Kia that was giving me a CEL and a code for cam shaft/ crank shaft misalignment. I had that car since it was brand new. It had 132000kms on it when I got rid of it. No idea if it was an easier fix like a timing belt or if it needed an engine rebuild. I tried replacing the VVT solenoid but that didn’t fix the CEL. I now drive a 2008 Hyundai with 193000kms. It has a few quirks but it is still better than the brand new Kia.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
That’s brutal. You go from a brand-new Kia to a decade-old Hyundai and somehow it’s the upgrade. Timing issues at 132k is a red flag—did the dealer even try to diagnose beyond the CEL?
WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit
And that's a shame because Hyundai/Kia used to be way shittier before 2010.
rneuf@reddit
The Kia was totalled in a hail storm and insurance paid me out for it. I never bothered trying anything more than the VVT solenoid. I could have bought it back from insurance for $4500 but I just took the payout and bought the Hyundai for $5000.
Jackielegs43@reddit
Homeboy saw one Excel still running and said cars last 20-30 years
WinVistaUltimatex64@reddit
I have never seen an Excel in a very long time.
Even if I seen one, it's the average hooptie that's driven by some old dinosaur.
LorisLukic@reddit
While they didn't last that long they were mostly mechanical, so fixing it wasn't a big issue or expensive to do. Nowadays we are approaching a stage where only licensed car dealerships will be able to perform work on their own cars and filter out your everyday mechanic, then they will jack up the prices bc they will have a monopoly on repairs. Coincidentally there is a big push for screens in cars, screens that are known for failing after a few years.
Chriz412@reddit
Had a few BMWs with early iDrive units. Never had an issue with electronics. Most issues were related with aging mechanical parts.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Respect. Early iDrive units were clunky but surprisingly durable. What year BMWs were you running, and did any of the modules ever throw ghost errors?
Chriz412@reddit
an 06 and 10, so idrive 2 and 3. Clunky but durable is accurate! And honestly no errors. However I will say they were barely used, mainly just for some music.
AlexanderHBlum@reddit
Modern cars are more reliable and last longer than they have at any other point in history.
VegaGT-VZ@reddit
No, absolutely not
Electronics in cars are nothing new, and the electronics in cars today are more robust than electronics in cars from 10-30 years ago.
Mechanically cars are generally more reliable as well. People will cherry pick the worst of cars today and ignore all the garbage from the past with rose tinted glasses.
I really think a lot of the hate for modern cars is just an extension of people's pessimism and anxiety about the future in general. But I dont think a lot of it is warranted.
maybach320@reddit
My 2012 GL was aging pretty well until the engine started losing compression at 285k miles. That being said I wouldn’t buy a Mercedes after 2019 because of the exact point you’re making.
Spankh0us3@reddit
Yeah, in 30 years time, no one is going to waste their time and money “restoring” a car made today. They are all pretty much junk. . .
Elwoodpdowd87@reddit
Just picked up a gently used 2021 Tacoma 6MT. Anticipate handing it down to my grandchildren (my kids are 8 and 10)
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Manual Tacoma? That’s a generational heirloom. What made you pick the 6MT nostalgia or pure control?
Elwoodpdowd87@reddit
I just really enjoy the engagement! And the auto in those trucks is known to hunt for gears
zeissikon@reddit
Cars used to last before 1952 in the US and 1974 in Europe, at which point planned obsolescence was introduced . In Le Mans Classic there are almost 10,000 vintage cars, and this is obvious. Then the consumers realized there was a problem, and the reliability increased again from, say, 1988, to 2003, after which it went slowly downhill because of the cost of the depollution devices . Cars from the last ten years are made so that you lease them for three years and return them, except for models intended to be sold in low income countries. Source : the engineers of major brands with whom I have been working for more than 20 years.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
That timeline is gold. 1988–2003 was peak reliability. Now it’s lease-return engineering. What’s the most bulletproof car you’ve seen from that golden window?
zeissikon@reddit
Renault 21 ? Peugeot 306 ? Mercedes 230?
Parking_Run3767@reddit
Yes, they will fail. They have to handle vibrations and extreme temps. My hvac will not work unless the infotainment is on.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Infotainment tied to HVAC is criminal. One cracked screen and you’re freezing. What car was that in?
turbo_charged@reddit
Largely yes.
The issue becomes replacements parts pricing and availability as the car gets older.
Either the part will be unavailable when the part breaks (some manufacturers only supply parts during the warranty period), or the part will be priced as if the car is new (control modules, screens and even simple interior bits can be wildly expensive and quickly total a car).
Simple, tough machines (like a lowly-optioned Ford F150) will be less susceptible to this phenomenon.
manystripes@reddit
The other issue that will become more common if automakers get their way is that features will be locked behind subscription plans that stop being offered for "end of life" products.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Subscriptions for heated seats and fog lights? That’s dystopian. What’s the one feature you’d pay once for, but never monthly?
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
That’s the nightmare scenario $2k screen in a $3k car. What’s the most ridiculous part quote you’ve seen that totaled a car on paper?
Eli_eve@reddit
The electronics in my 2013 BMW worked just like day 1 when I sold it recently. It was the plastic and rubber bits that were starting to fail. I upgrade my phone after 3 or 4 years not because it’s disposable and begins to fail, but because the features and performance of new phones. That’s somewhat a situation with cars these days too as new tech features are produced and improved, but I expect to keep my new car for many years until the plastic and rubber bits inevitably age and fail. I’m not going to replace it after a couple years just because a new model has a bigger screen or faster CPU.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
That’s a solid take. The tech isn’t always the failure point it’s the plastics, seals, and trim. What’s the one feature you wish modern cars would ditch to stay timeless?
mardan65@reddit
No, regular maintenance goes a long way.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
Maintenance is king, no doubt. But what happens when the part you need is locked behind a dealer-only diagnostic tool?
kdhardon@reddit
I believe we will start seeing more cars scrapped because of obsolete/unrepairable electronics.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
That’s the future nobody wants to admit. A $40k car scrapped because the touchscreen died. What’s the oldest tech-heavy car you’ve seen still running clean?
davey-jones0291@reddit
In that they're suspiciously difficult to repair and manufacturers gatekeep the software you need to fully communicate with the car, absolutely they're designed to be disposable unofficially. The major manufacturers have the ability to make a car last 30+ years. Its the Phillips lightbulb cartel all over again. Capitalism is toxic af sometimes.
TheLoganReyes@reddit (OP)
You nailed it. The software gatekeeping is the new planned obsolescence. You think we’ll ever see a ‘Right to Repair’ movement that actually forces OEMs to open the vault?
Grandpa_Dan@reddit
Our LS430 is 25. Still plugging along electronically. I can't say much about the little things, like the gears/motors for the mirrors and steering wheel adjustments.
upsetcabbagefart@reddit
Thats not modern...
Floppie7th@reddit
If you want to ask whether or not cars last 25 years, you need to look at cars that are at least 25 years old.
Initial-Reading-2775@reddit
That’s dope living classics.
No-Gold4485@reddit
Everything is that yet not everything is failing? Huh would you consider that.
Also a lot of people underestimate the tenacity of third party. I got a cheap Chinese 10-in touch screen for 130 bucks I installed yesterday. The manufacturer had it ready to go plug and play, communicated with the cars canbus, and can access all features even the steering wheel remote controls.
I'm sure when this car was made, people were very upset saying there's no way you can add a radio now. It's all proprietary complicated computerized communication to the cars integrated amp, there's no way. Well guess what now I remanufacturer has a way and it's easy.