Do you see the Balkans being more friendly to each other as generations progress?
Posted by SpiritMan112@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 73 comments
Do you honestly see each of the Balkan countries being more neutral and friendly to each other politically and culturally too with each passing generation? Unfortunately a lot of people hate other people from neighboring countries and hopefully it will eases with each passing generation as the wars become more distant
TastyRancidLemons@reddit
For the most part? Yes, absolutely. First of all, the Romania-Bulgaria-Greece schengen zone is a friendly bloc in general. It's my favourite EU-relations success story in general. We are closer with one another here than even Germany is with some of its own neighbours. I can only see our three countries growing closer through the years to come.
Similarly, I know Croatia-Montenegro-Albania-North Macedonia are pretty close with one another so that's another issue free zone. People from there can share their own perspective.
For the rest, honestly, I can never see Greece ever getting along with Turkiye no matter how many years or decades or centuries pass. There's just nothing that can be done to mend this situation from any angle.
Similarly, I cannot see Serbia ever mending their relationship with Croatia and Albania.
And finally, I can't see a future in which Albania ever trusts Greece in any capacity. Our relations have improved significantly in the last decade and there's no overt hostility, but they still hate us. Seems likely enough that the next two generations will be better in that regard though.
Rex_Ilusiviius@reddit
I like to think that we will have better relations with Greece and Bulgaria but I am not optimistic. I visit Greece frequently in the summer, at least 4-5 trips to Halkidiki for weekends and one 10-day vacation on the Ionian coast (I love Kefalonia) and on the other side I have friends in Bulgaria, from Blagoevgrad, Pleven, Oryahovo to Stara Zagora, Tvardica, Karnobat and Bourgas, every time we meet is a great time spend between friends. In my opinion, 20-30 years from now we will have better relations as countries overall, with Greece instead of Bulgaria even though we are culturally closer.
East-Raccoon135@reddit
Apparently they hate Albanians, according to someone from this sub.
Regarding Greece I’ve heard it’s getting better from the younger generations I’ve spoken to that live/grew up there.
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
I have been avoiding visiting Greece and Serbia, tbh, and i have visited all Balkan countries at some point apart from Bosnia and Romania. Whenever i feel like going abroad, i choose either Italy or Turkey. I feel comfortable there and find people there friendly. At this point, i have no will to find out by myself whether Serbs or Greeks are friendly or not even though i have heard many speak well.
greekgirl002@reddit
not coming to Greece as an albanian out of fear is insane at this point. Your people are living here since the 90s and only left when the crisis got unviable
FordFreeState@reddit
And do you know the absurd amount of discrimination they received when they went to Greece in the 90s? I don’t blame Albanians for not wanting to go to Serbia or Greece
greekgirl002@reddit
oh good God, majority of us opened our homes, gave them clothes, shoes, food. A relative of mine even donated to get roads built in Albania but we always gotta count the rare idiots that would be idiots to any person?
East-Raccoon135@reddit
My mom lived in Greece in 96/97. Her and my family endured so much racism in Greece. There were literally signs in newspapers saying no Albanians under job classifieds. I had cousins growing up who didn’t tell their friends they were Albanian to avoid discrimination.
Don’t discount people’s real experiences. I’m sorry to say but Greece has a really bad reputation when it comes to racism not just towards Albanians but all migrants.
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
That is also true. Sorry for giving a white & black impression.
greekgirl002@reddit
oh dont beee, you at least realised theres positivity in betwee our nations and now you know not to avoid
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Don't engage. There are quite a bit of Croatian/Albanian nationalists in this sub.
greekgirl002@reddit
I agree, bringing negativity to a place meant to unite us
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Ok, buddy. Go harass some Serbian minority or attend Thompson comcert or somethibg..
East-Raccoon135@reddit
The last time I was in Greece 10 years ago was the first time I experienced racism towards Albanians, so so much aggressions and obvious racism, horrible energy when we were speaking Albanian… including youth saying racist shit about us in Greek right next to us, which my mom understand.
I have heard it’s gotten better though. And I have a lot of family there. But I understand not wanting to visit. I haven’t gone back since then but planning on returning next summer to see family.
ardit33@reddit
I got stuck in the Athens airport due to my flights delay (ie not my fault) and I got treated like crap by the personal there (of Aegean airlines). I had to pull my US passport and threaten them with a lawsuit as soon as I land back in the US to be treated like a human beings. I’d imagine Albanians there face this type of discrimination there regularly.
I avoid Greece’s airports for this reason. When I am traveling for fun the last thing I want in my menu is a dose of discrimination.
nickmn13@reddit
That's not discrimination my friend. Unfortunately thats the standard greek airport experience. They dont treat us any better, I can assure you of that...
Heydavid17@reddit
You’ve awoken my curiosity, since I was held back from boarding a plane in Athens when visiting last year.
They said, “random check”, which I still refuse to believe, at the very gate. It was only me and a Ukrainian who were held back, which left my grandma worried, cause she entered the flight with no problem.
When I finally entered the flight, I explained my grandma what happened and why I entered the flight so late. When we landed in Bucharest however, again I was “randomly checked” as in, as soon we landed and not at the passport checkpoint. Like WTF?!? It bothered me even more, that they can see I carry a Romanian name, but decided to communicate in English, probably due to my Danish passport. (I do wonder if any of that could’ve been avoided, had Romania been part of Schengen at the time - Filthy Austrian and Dutch politicians)
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
😅 i have had worse incidents on the side of Albania. "Why raise voice" "why there is this letter in your surname" and the kind. But it feels different when you are in foreign land. Prejudices start to kick in our minds.
greekgirl002@reddit
we get shit treatment in every office too.... not ethnicity based just manyyy people that should not work there do
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
Yep, i have heard similar stories.
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
I have been transit to Greece. It was okay.
greekgirl002@reddit
well of course...we get many Albanians as tourists too
morgoths_servant@reddit
I've literally attended 3 Greek Albanian weddings this summer (and yes both cultures were equally honored). People move on.
Ps. hating Greece and not Turkey is very ironic
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
When i was still a teen, i ended up in an incident in a Turkish airport because i had no idea my passport had expired. I shudder to think what would happen to me if i were in Greece from what i was told.
morgoths_servant@reddit
What is it exactly that you heard?
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
"Ta bëjnë kurrizin më të butë se barku"
morgoths_servant@reddit
I am sorry to hear that however this is not true. Because of the huge influx of refugees both the UN and International Amnesty inspect our authorities very closely.
We do have strict immigration laws because of the eu but most likely you would be deported and transferred to the closest border.
Better experience for yourself instead of relying to rumors you know
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
Apoligies for prejudice. Frankly i love to listen to Greek music and i find the language pleasant to the ear. And now that i think of it, i would probably be fonder if i knew the language.
morgoths_servant@reddit
Likewise! I am personally very interested in Albanian culture, one of my childhood friends is from Berat and I am planning to visit multiple destination in Albania next year
theDivic@reddit
You should listen to fairy tales less, and travel more.
Absolutely nothing would happen to you in Greece or Serbia in that same situation in the same way that nothing would happen to me if I was in the same situation in Albania or even Kosovo.
Real life isn’t internet.
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
Oh, please. It has not to do with the past. In Montenegro i have felt even more comfortable than even Albania.
You are right. Now that i think about it, if i didn't know the language, i would probably not be so fond of Italy.
Trick-Size-1522@reddit
My first grade school “crush” was an Albanian woman. Me and her went to every dance together and graduation. At our graduation party, my Serbian dad and her Albanian dad had conversations at our table on how not even 15 years prior there was a war, and now they are at a table together because their kids liked each other. And this has been all I’ve seen in my circle. We have Croatian, Romanian, Greek, Turkish and Albanian friends, I’m the Serb in the group. But we love each other. This generation is 100% healing the old wounds
East-Raccoon135@reddit
Where is this?
BrassMoth@reddit
It's literally happening right now. Bulgaria has improved its relationship with most neighbors greatly. Especially with the other EU members Romania and Greece.
TastyRancidLemons@reddit
I thought Bulgaria and Romania were always friendly. Also, yes, the Bulgaria-Greece friendship is genuinely the best success story in the Balkans. Also the RO-BG-GR Schengen zone is peak, parties in Samothrace this Summer will be lit af.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
There are still cold war era mines here and there at the Greek-Bulgarian border remaining though :)
TastyRancidLemons@reddit
Meh, all good friendships start with a bang.
PlamenIB@reddit
This
East-Raccoon135@reddit
No. This sub is a perfect example of the amount of racism Albanians have to still deal with.
MSenpai206@reddit
Unsurprisingly yes, the Greco-Bulgarian relationship has gotten pretty good in the past decades, I've seen many Bulgarians in summer taking a vacation in Thrace and many Greeks taking a vacation in winter in Bulgaria.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
There is a significant and growing Greek community in Sofia nowadays. Me on the other hand, I am going to Thessaloniki in two weeks, for the first time in the winter to check out the Christmas bazaar there. Many Bulgarians bought houses and some also moved to Northern Greece in the last years. We have a family friends of us that bought a house with several hectares of olives and they are producing their own organic cold pressed extra virgin that they are branding and trying to establish and sell now.
Dry-Statistician3712@reddit
Well, my family were fighting in a war against serbs, now children of same serbs work as waitres and hotel cleaners in Croatia. We made some progress I guess.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
So you are coworkers, that's nice.
Dry-Statistician3712@reddit
No, we have 3 pretty girls from serbia working at family restaurant.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Nice, what's the name of the restaurant?
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
It’s a comfy place called: „Rentfree“
It’s mostly constructed in his own mind and as you can see it is occupied by Serbs.
weurhwoepriporheiu@reddit
You would know, being the expert on Rentfree.
Now run along, dont want to be late for your evening waiting shift.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
you seem to speak from experience, what living over 30 with his parents does to a mf ...
How petty do you have to be to get offended by a joke? It says so much about your own lack of character.
weurhwoepriporheiu@reddit
Ive watched and learned from the best.
Dude youre the one that fired the first salvo, best to stop projecting and get off your moral high-horse.
So youre able to dish out a joke, but not take one in return? How petty/insecure do you have to be? Says so much about your own lack of character.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
obviously i took it and made a light joke aswell ?
He was trolling and i made a joke, the question is why you jump into it an try to insult me for makeing a joke but are absolutly fine with his remarks. (and even play into his argument ...)
you think i take his comment 1% serious, cmon ur smarter than that, its obviously i made a stupid joke on his person.(not croats generally).
its satuday night man, i feel trully sorry for you.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
It seems that "Rentfree" you mentioned is actually a franchise.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
Choose one and be generous with the rest of us 🤣
zanimljivo123@reddit
I can't understand serbs who work in croatia
fredyicey@reddit
Speaking as a Romanian in germany, it is ofc different but the Balkan ppl usually like each other but migrants generally do over here.
Romanians tho are mostly for themselves from what i have seen/mostly away from the other migrant groups.
Th3Dark0ccult@reddit
As a Bulgarian in the UK, I can confirm that Romanians mostly keep to their folk. Whereas the poles love engaging with us.
GroundZeroMstrNDR@reddit
Yeah I've also noticed that. A romanian couple moved into a neighboring house in my village and I regularly invited them to come over for a coffee or when my family grills but they don't seem to be comfortable with that. Maybe they are just introverts
Dauincap@reddit
Romanians abroad usually form enclaves and don't really go out of their bubble, not all of them of course there are exceptions, but it was common to see whole streets full of Romanian immigrants back in the late 2000s.
Hour-Promotion-2496@reddit
Romanians? or "Romanians"?
Dauincap@reddit
Both.
Purple_Felix33@reddit
For sure. If you live abroad, most of your friends will be either Balkan or Slavic anyways.
A_Small_Pillowcase@reddit
Among generations? 100% mostly due to just not caring about history
Older generations changing their minds? No way
kretenizam@reddit
Can Balkan countries first develope goods relations within their own individual countries?
Just-Equal-3968@reddit
No.
Don't let online bubbles, comments and memes deceive you.
Most people that don't care either go away and live in the west or like Australia or recently far east. And of those that stay and don't care, majority has no power or decision making capabilities whatsoever.
While along some lines and dimensions things are changing, there is just too many unsolved issues, issues under carpets, conflicts of interests, foreign influences,etc.
Geopolitical tensions and divides larger than countries here, but from powers that consider this region to be better as area where those conflicts crash against eachother than in their countries and backyard.
No need to even mention the economic systems setup to drain wealth and for braindrain of the most smart capable ones, and other nasty globalist instititions and tools of globalism.
altahor42@reddit
If there are no active political problems between the two countries, relations are progressing.
SecretSquirrel10@reddit
Absolutely. I think all the Balkans countries will get on with each other except Turkey. The bitterness over the Turkish occupation & especially the theft of Balkan children to be used as slaves by the Turks still leaves a bad taste.
moisthotdogg@reddit
Abroad, maybe. I mean there has been some improvement here now that more people can travel and work in different places, but actually considering another country friends I think is reserved for EU countries in the balkans. The rest of us are still pretty tense
FordFreeState@reddit
No. Maybe another generation or two. The new ‘democratic’ generation of Serbs are still blaming us and Albanians for their failure to elect a proper leader.
NoProgrammer6255@reddit
If you go to Serbian nationalist subreddits, for example r/srpska, you will see all you need to know about the next generation of Serb(ian)s. Fucking nuts. But among Croatians it's also not ideal, ustašism is alive and well, however the Serb schizoism is on a next level if you ask me.
So no, I also don't see things getting better in the next generation with Serbians, with the rest I don't ever think there were major problems, it's always them who have an issue with literally every one of their neighbors.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Lol 😂
zet23@reddit
From my experience relationships and general sentiment are the best they have been ever in my life! Being in EU and Shengen is a major factor allowing people to break their self imposed walls of prejudice and go visit, talk, interact and live with our neighbors! I spend 3-4 months each year in Greece and really enjoy the cultural exchange and friendliness! It's exhilarating! Nobody cares about what have been, we are just people in the end!
No-Championship-4632@reddit
I think they are right now as compared to 20-30 years ago, so yes.
PasicT@reddit
Maybe in 30 to 50 years but not anytime soon.