How much do you see religious influences dying off as time goes?
Posted by SpiritMan112@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 49 comments
Do you honestly see religious influences and nationalism widely declining in your country in the next decades as older generations pass and younger gen’s take over
Royal_Association750@reddit
As Albania I’m not even sure if it ever started at least in recent of our history. I’m from Kosovo (born somewhere else) and honestly up to age 12 or 13 I didn’t even know that the Islamic god was named Allah and just in general nobody ever cared I didn’t even know that there are different sects of Islam and just in general nobody prayed or anything in my family or anyone I know in Kosovo. Albania was the first atheist country in the world where religion was banned. I haven’t been there since like 12 years or so I don’t know how it is over there but I don’t think it’s really much different. Nobody really cares about this and I don’t think they ever did like that. As some saying goes the religion of Albanians is being Albanian I don’t think anyone puts any weight on religious matter and surely don’t live by it (exceptions exist ofc)
GoHardLive@reddit
So what do you have to say about this ?
Reasonable-Crew-3128@reddit
This is one of the absolute basic rituals for muslims, like this is not even really a sign of conservative religion, let alone something extreme, I don't know if that's what you're implying. Also, like christianity, there are some people who just on holidays will partake in some religious stuff but won't at all care about it otherwise, it may have some cultural/family vibes about it or whatever. But still the people there will of course probably lean more conservative than average.
altonaerjunge@reddit
At Times Like Ramadan people are going to mosque who normaly arent. Doesnt mean every one of them is a strong beliver. Similar to Christians and Christmas.
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
Religious freedom.
Royal_Association750@reddit
Like I mentioned exceptions exist. The video has at max 100 people in there. How many Albanians are in Kosovo I think 1.6 million back then it was even more. Even I was once in this but I just did it because I was a kid and just wanted to do what I saw the older ones do and I had people there who did this that never read a Quran ever. This video is the equivalent of Christians getting f’ed up and hooking up and then sing Christmas songs under the tree
WrongdoerAnnual7685@reddit
Allah is just God in Arabic, Christian Arabs also refer to him that way.
Royal_Association750@reddit
I know this now but I didn’t know this back then
Royal_Association750@reddit
And for nationalism cause I didn’t read the whole thing the more stable a country gets the less nationalistic people get so as the years go by and the Balkans stabilize I would assume so but might take longer than religion way longer only time will tell
No-Championship-4632@reddit
I think religion is kind of identity/performative thing right now.
The most vicious people tend to be the most religious too. I mean you can guess how corrupt is a government official by the number of icons displayed in his/her cabinet. Similarly you can guess the number of brutal crimes a street criminal has committed by the number of religion-theme tattoos.
LorisLukic@reddit
Fading? Gen Z is becoming the fastest growing generation of Christians as we speak.
NetHistorical5113@reddit
Nationalism is increasing and religious influence is fading with the new generation
WrongdoerAnnual7685@reddit
Secular nationalism is not inherently bad, as long as it doesn’t head into ultranationalist territory by considering other nations inherently worse.
Is there a commensurate increase in patriotism?(distinction between love for the country and love for the nation, since Turkey isn’t completely homogenous)
Rithrall@reddit
Secular nationalism is way worse than religious, religious nationalist have some ethics, fantasy this about secular ones
WrongdoerAnnual7685@reddit
It depends on the degree I suppose, any extremism is bad for any ideology, but a certain level of civic and historical pride would be a healthy nationalism.
As long as you do not interfere with others for irrational reasons, there's no reason you can't support your nation, while not excluding others in it.
purpleblacc@reddit
The guy you replied to wants to interfere with others. Secular nationalists have real concerns like having a mutual respect society while these people want to force their ideas on you with their "brothers" coming in from half of the world. You're wasting yout breath on this one.
purpleblacc@reddit
All kinds of nationalism increased including racism, and making hurtful remarks about others such as "dirty dark-skinned kurd" or "ewwwww arab" increased though I believe these groups living in ghettos and assaulting women help their cause. People, including me, have strong stereotypes just to survive. I mean I couldn't care less about people having darker skin or more body hair, but people with too patriarchal family structures are already a problem.
WrongdoerAnnual7685@reddit
That's a shame, as a firm believer in civic nationalism, one's characteristics shouldn't matter, racial or otherwise, as long as you adhere to the norms of society, institutions, and citizenship, you are also a part of the nation.
purpleblacc@reddit
was gonna write the same thing
Few_Specialist4862@reddit
All religions should be abolished !
LettuceDrzgon@reddit
This is reddit so people will tell you that religion is fading, but I don’t think that’s true. It’s much more acceptable among Gen Z here to say that you are religious than it was among millennials. I always know people don’t have enough contact with Gen Z when they say confidently that they are irreligious. I would say that millennials were the least religious generation but now young people are getting more religious again.
greekhop@reddit
'Religious Influences' is a meaninless term.
In Greece between 65-90% believe in God or identify as members of the church. This being reddit, that's not what the rabid atheists here want to hear. Religion bad!
15% say they attend church regularly. That's more like it right? Let that number decrease, then the Balkans will become an utopia, thats an undisputable fact according to atheist edgelords, don't ask how that works.
Since you are asking for the vague unfounded opinions of an hyper partisan echo chamber, you might as well make up whatever floats your boat.
GoHardLive@reddit
Literally all the developed countries in the world are irreligious. Doesnt that say anything to you ?
greekhop@reddit
That is a very ignorant comment, and flat out false.
The USA is not irreligious. Neither Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Poland, Greece, Israel, South Korea, Japan, Singapore, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman.
The ones that are became irreligious after becoming developed. Every society in history, bar maybe a few miniscule jungle tribes, has religion. Developed or not.
GoHardLive@reddit
So what do you have to say about this ?
ComplicatedSunshine@reddit
Definitely, but the process is slowed down by the people who are emigrating. I'd say that most people who have left as part of the "brain drain" also tend to be the least nationalistic and religious
OkRun880@reddit
Depends, a lot of the diaspora that dont completely assimilate end up attending church, first as a means of preserving their culture and being part of the community then as actually seeking God.
ComplicatedSunshine@reddit
Yeah, I think we agree, there are largely two groups: 1) those that you mention, who tend to leave Serbia to do mostly menial jobs and also tend to be ultra-religious and proud of their origins and 2) those that I specified are leaving Serbia because they're highly educated (tech workers, doctors etc.), who tend to assimilate, and who would have contributed to the trend of weakening religious/nationalistic influences if they'd stayed in Serbia
OkRun880@reddit
It's usually the ones that do menial jobs whose parents came in the 90s that they tend to assimilate more quickly. While those that are more educated or have more educated parents tend to keep the culture and faith. At least in Australia.
Most of the migrants that came from the 50s or straight after ww2 (mostly who were chetniks) decendants are also mostly assimilated.
The hyper religious nationalists (who aren't even religious, who just claim to be) are dying out. They are mostly boomers and stuff that came in the 90s.
Also, last time I was in Vojvodina, a lot of the churches were filled with younger people, especially younger families.
So I dont think religiosity is completely dying out. Which is remarkable due to how bad our church is being run and who are involved in the hierarchy. Lord have mercy on them.
Refugee_InThisWorld@reddit
Nationalism has not been a thing in Albania, especially after ww2 and liquidation of National Front and installation of communism. Religion is a broader topic, and the opinions vary from person to person. Recently i learned that we have five official religions in Albania while until 1990s we considered only three. As of now, i don't see any form of nationalism emerging, and regarding religion, i think we should not have complexes. There have been bizarre events where followers of some jehova sects commited suicide, and recently two bums were arrested after stockpiling guns and hanging an isis flag on their bedroom wall. Yet, i would not worry. If some people fall prey to religious extremism, so be it. Darwinism is a natural procces. Both nationalism and religious adherence has died long time ago in Albania. People are more attracted to crazy conspiraty bs than actual ideologies. Yet, in our daily life, no one cares about such topics.
Eastern_Click_4361@reddit
Any sign of more and more free thinking and logic in a society is a sign of religion dying out.
spallettioutista@reddit
Here in southern Italy we were like the Balkans until a few decades ago: many religious people, slightly backward customs, etc., etc. Now I see little religious attachment and little patriotism/nationalism, which have given way to a general distrust and a very accentuated nihilism
FeelTheKetasy@reddit
For Greece definitely. We are in a bit of a weird situation since our generations are super separated religiously (ultra religious grandpas, “I believe I guess” parents and mostly agnostic/atheist/neochristians when it comes to millennials and especially gen z)
Funny anecdote ig, my village used to be “religious” in the sense that there would be a lot of church attendance from older people, especially women. That was until our liberal priest who generally didn’t gaf about imposing rules was replaced by an ultra traditionalist Christian who demanded that everyone does it “the right way”. The old ladies now go for a coffee instead of Sundays and the churches now have about 10-20 members attending in contrast to the 200+ we would have before
GoHardLive@reddit
In contrast to what some Greek users may say, i dont think religiosity is going down in Greece with the new generation. If anything, the oposite is true
MirusTheVirus@reddit
Religiosity and nationalism is rising with gen z.
CmdrJemison@reddit
Doesn't matter. God is for those who believe anyway.
gabor_legrady@reddit
religion is a tool, a tag, something to talk about for nationalists - they do not care about the merits
Magistar_Idrisi@reddit
At this point no. There's a resurgence of nationalism and religious fundamentalism among the younger generations in Croatia. It's fueled by the Church and wealthy western-backed tycoons.
No-Significance1050@reddit
No. The churches are fostering nationalism here. The bearded men have always had ties and fostered a local flavor of fascism.
m0mchilo@reddit
I'd say that everyone in the Balkans except Bosniaks is becoming less religious. I'm not sure about Turkey, their younger generations seem very secular but they're also importing millions of very religious non-Turkish Muslims so I don't know what future holds for them.
levenspiel_s@reddit
Both of them were naturally dying, but both of them are brought back by the right wing populist politicians. That shows you how convenient a tool they are for exploiting common people.
As far as I can see, people are slowly going back to dark ages under the pretend name of "conservative" world view. Conservative my ass.
Renandstimpyslog@reddit
Our countries are slowly transforming into a Chinese inspired totalitarian dystopia. The rich want to keep the commoners down.
Prestigious-Job-9825@reddit
Yes, but the way I see (at least here in Hungary), nationalism is the primary tool of populists, and religion is only secondary.
There aren't any more people in churches than decades ago. They're often nearly empty.
PasicT@reddit
I would say nationalism is on the rise nearly everywhere in the Balkans, religion not so much.
No_Search7380@reddit
In Croatia, I’d say both are on the rise. At least from what i’ve seen.
Statakaka@reddit
I already consider the religious influences dead
Kitsooos@reddit
Religiousness is going way down. Nationalism is not.
MisterWithTwister@reddit
Slovenia: in churches there are mostly old people. They still have influence on the voting and preists tell people how to vote on elections. Im 30 years old and now probably 1 or 2 people my generation that have catholic beliefs.
Here parents usually force you to go to religion study "verouk" when you are a kid, but when you get older nobody cares anymore.
So catholic influence is definetly getting lower and lower.
CivilPerspective5804@reddit
I'd say yes. I had only 2 genuinely religious people in my high school class. The rest wwre either apathetic to it or even hated religions as a whole. In college I don't remember anyone exoressing any kind of religious sentinment. My friend group now is almost alk atheists, with a who few who kind of believe in something, but don't practice in anyway.